Clavius

Well I started a thread mockingly asking people if they thought my engine would fail a compression test. 50% said it would and well they where right, it failed! Now I'm happy about this because now my suspicions are now confirmed and I can now happily know that I knew more about my car than my previous shytass dealership (who I now will never go back to since they damaged my car awhile back.). Sadly I have some issues with how this all went down and want your thoughts and opinions that and I also wish to hand out some info in regards to numbers I got to see how bad my compression was.

I called up Tasca Mazda in Seekonk, MA to schedule a compression check since I was coming up on the big 60k. The Service Rep Heather was really nice and said "sure no problem the tech said that if it fails you wont have to pay for the compression check since it will fall under your powertrain.". I knew this and said sure, I made the apointment and went in yesterday (Monday). I got another Service Rep while there, Mike who asked why I wanted a compression check since he didnt wish to waste my money on something I might not need. I went on to tell him that someone localy had one done and his failed (Astral) that and I've had problems before with motor mounts, clogged CAT, and recently had a CEL for misfires (also noted at a local autozone that the CEL I had also denotes loss of compression) but it cycled itself out. I get shown to the waiting room and set up at a desk since I brought a laptop with me, and then I wait......

About 2 hours later the Mike comes up to me and tells me that the engine showed low compression and that they talked to Mazda Tech Line as to what to do next. He was told that they had to perform a Decarb first which I have to pay for and then do another compression check and if it fails they'll replace my engine. I just blinked for a moment and thought "If it fails all previous work is covered by my power train I'm all set..." so I said to let him do it 'cause I knew it would fail. After he left I wasnt sure if I heard him correctly so I called up Chrism first then MNAO (have 'em on the cellphone haha), I talked to a David who was pretty nice and after talking to him for a few minutes I nailed him down and said "Ok so let me get this straight. If after the Decarb the engine passes compression I have to pay for it, BUT if it fails I dont have to pay for anything?" He responded with a "yes your correct.". I smiled after hanging up the phone with David knowing that I am walking out of there not paying a dime and most likely a new engine.

Give or take 3 hours later!! Mike comes up to me agian and said that it still failed compression and they are ordering me a new engine. I just grinned and felt a bit cocky yanno.. who wouldnt after having that gut feeling for so long and trying to convince another dealer something is up but they wont listen and just say "Oh its normal... dont worry buddy...". Well I get my paperwork and talk to the tech who thought it was strange that I wanted a copy of the compression numbers. I got the numbers (to be posted at the end of this.) and then proceeded to walk out the door, Mike said "oh that way.." I though maybe I had to give the cashier some paper work stating I was there thats it. NOPE I got slapped with a bill of $227. I didnt raise a stink while there because I figured it was a miscommunication between Mazda and the Dealer and I'll just call up MNAO again and get it sorted out.

Now when I got home I called up MNAO and got a Glann (yes that is how its spelt.), she was nice and tried to help me out and offered to get David on the phone. After that didnt work out she offered to call up the dealership for me to figure out what was going on. I get the phonecall back and she is telling me that since that I went in and ASKED for the Compression Check and that led to the Decarb being required I had to pay for them since they are considered PREVENTIVE Maintence. At this point I was close to losing it, and told her that I went in for the compression check since I felt something was wrong with my car and wanted it looked at before 60k that and I felt I shouldnt have to pay for the Decarb since that THEY (Mazda) said it had to be done and the engine still failed compression. I stated that if the car did indeed pass compression I wouldnt mind paying but the fact it did still fail I shouldnt have to pay anything but only the compression test if that. Well she kept on stating "Preventitive maintence is not covered" over and over so I was going nowhere so I just said "ok whateva.. thanks for nothing..." and hung up.

When the Motor comes in I'm going in and talking to the service manager and getting all my money back. I'm sorry, I was told it would be covered and I wouldnt have to pay a dime. I think that day will be the day that Clavius officaly snaps and becomes "That" person Chrism so desperatly tells me to be when I'm getting screwed. I'm near broke at the moment and I saved up some money that I should of put torwards the house for this and well having that amount double officaly screwed me over big time.

Numbers for Compression Test
04 A/T 59.8k Miles Orginal Motor
Build Date Aug 03

R1
1. 6.9
2. 7.0
3. 7.1

R2
1. 6.5
2. 6.5
3. 6.9

The Tech stated to me that after the Decarb process that the compression was worse than before which he was confused by but stated "well in either case your getting a new motor.". Oh and if anyone can expain to me some of these numbers it would be great (I know what the 1-3 means but the actual number thanks ).

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I could hazard a guess at the number meaning, but my knowledge isn't as strong as it needs to be I think. My limited knowledge would guess that that is the effective ratio of air compression rate at peak compared to uncompressed. So 6.9 is the air in the rotor is compressed 6.9 times more at peak than non-peak. I think we should be 9.5 to 10.1? (Someone else with greater knowledge is needed here)

Either way, Tasca is ~4 miles away. Let me know if you want me to drop by when you go back for some backup. Dealerships tend to talk straighter when there is more than 1 person present

(used that to help a friend avoid getting shafted by a dealer while getting his '07 over the weekend... 19k sticker marked up to 25.8k...wtf?)

Clavius

^I've had a few offers from people to do just that.. be interesting to see what a few Rx-8's pulling up to the dealership would do in terms of accomadating me. They told me it should be 2-3 days before the motor shows up so I have a few days time before it comes in. I'm thinking if that is the case I'll tell them I'll drop it off friday evening maybe.. therfore if anyone does come they can lol.

This better just be a major miscommunication between Mazda and Tasca 'cause they where nice to me didnt dick me around or treat me like a moron (if anything I felt like I was a Master Rotary Tech compared to these guys lmfao).

And I hope that someone to who understands those numbers better does chime in since I'm curious as to how bad or boarderline it was.

alz0rz

iTrader: (41)

i believe in spec is above 7.1

DOMINION

Have them put the new motor in your trunk so you can have two engines
Man that sucks bro. But if Phone calls dont work, wright some letters to MONA and tell the dealer to suck it! they did the carb thing not you. See what they had for a quote on the first paper they have you sign. If its not on there and they trying to make you pay for it, **** that. Take it the the local news station and tell the what they did to you muahahaaaa!

chrism

that and if your not gonna be more adamant then bring vaseline with you......or ask for a kiss....something....i still dont get why you have to pay for this if they are replacing the engine......its wasted money on something being replaced under warantee.....would you pay to change your oil if you knew they were replacing the engine?....its asenine

DOMINION

^+1 I would go dumb on them lol

Clavius

Engine came in yesterday will be dropping her off on Monday.

Old Rotor

I had my compression done by a master mechanic using the Mazda comp tool and had 6.7@240rpm in #1 rotor. In #2 it was 8.2@245rpm. Showed it to my local Mazda dealer and ask for a compression test @ $133. They said if it was low they would run the de-carb procedure "TSB". They said there readings were #1 rotor 8.4(no rpm's given) #2 was 8.8 and it did not need de-carb. My friend master mech said "thats fishy" cause he ran it twice. We all felt Mazda ran the de-carb and just would not admit it was needed. It does feel a little better and now I can run reg 87 gas which I could not before without detonation. How long will this last, only time will tell and I still have three years left on the 8yr-100K warranty. I was told that if the compression test failed that it and the de-carb "TSB" would be free. This is what it says at the bottom of the "Engine Lack Of Power" "TSB"....

WARRANTY INFORMATION
NOTE:
• This warranty information applies only to verified customer complaints on vehicles eligible for warranty
repair.
• Warranty term coverage is 8 years (96 months) from the original warranty start date, with a 100,000
mile mileage limitation.
• Additional diagnostic time cannot be claimed for this repair.

chrism

at least you get a new motor

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

Ive had so many scares with loss of power.
1st time was a clogged cat
2nd time I was misfiring from bad sparkplugs
3rd time I thought my engine was knocking, it was loose ignition wires.
Now Im still at engine #1 years later *Knocking on wood!!!!!**

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

for those wondering, the compression test results are pressure measurements of each face, given in kg/cm^2. No different than a piston engine compression test on each cylinder, except they are usually given in psi, and do not require a special tool to measure (remember that the rotary has 6 faces, but 3 are in a common chamber, and using a conventional gauge on a chamber will give you the highest number in that chamber, not each individual one).

I believe it is 14.2 that you multiply by to get a psi equivalent for the numbers the mazda tester gives. Mazda minimum test results are about 96psi, and new engines start out in the 125-130psi range. In the past, older versions of rotary would run well into the 85-90psi range before significant problems arose, but for whatever reason these rx8s are more sensitive to compression levels. The mazda minimum spec for compression for all previous rotary engines was 85psi.

IF any of you are curious about your compression you can measure it relatively accurately with a standard compression tester at home. It is not possible to get detailed numbers for each individual face, but in general, the numbers in a common chamber are all within 5psi of each other anyway (unless you have broken apex seals).

Kjdakilla03

[ but in general, the numbers in a common chamber are all within 5psi of each other anyway (unless you have broken apex seals).[/QUOTE]


Is there a certain parameter for how close or far apart the numbers should be in seperate chambers? And if so what would that indicate? Like if chamber one was 9.0/9.3/9.3 and chamber two was 7.6/7.8/8.0?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

I believe the spec for difference between chambers (front and rear) should be 21psi still. In reality, you dont want to see more than about 5-10psi difference or it can affect idle quality.

The rear chamber tends to wear more than the front on all rotary engines, and thus it produces less compression over time. This is largely because the rear chamber is cooled by preheated coolant passed on from the front.

It is also for this reason that the rear chamber often breaks apex seals before the front, as they are worn more over time.

Based on the material you quoted above, you may be confused. There are 3 faces inside each chamber, and these should all be within a few psi of each other...5 at the most. Since they all see the same conditions and the same sealing surface, they should all wear equally. Any major difference from face to face, within the same chamber, can indicate a warped or broken apex seal. This is not common in low to medium mileage non turbo rotaries, however.