I think that the rx-8 should have the same amount of power or more than the Nissan Z. What happens when we pull up to the 'Z' at a stop light and get humiliated? I just dosn't seem right for that to happen. BUT if the power was close or the same it would actually be fun, and would depend on the better driver. I saw a 'Z' drive by and it looked GOOD....I mean REALLY appealing. I HOPE the RX-8 stand out just as much.......and maybe the same amount of power.......or i dont know that 'Z' looks good. I've been waiting sooo long for this car, that now im just becoming ancy and want a fast, fun, reliable sports car.

<<sigh>> it's not really necessary, 'cuase this isn't a drag car...
just buy yourself a nitrous kit if you wanna race at stop lights...
there've been other threads about this, like "need some low end TORQUE", so give those a read first...

Originally posted by GOFAST
I think that the rx-8 should have the same amount of power or more than the Nissan Z. What happens when we pull up to the 'Z' at a stop light and get humiliated?
I think you just humiliated yourself right here and now.. :rolleyes:
Take it to the track please, be safe. Too many people have died here this past summer from such "red light" endevaours. :(

Reduced weight reduces the hp need to move more sheetmetal down the road. Remember the 3rd generation RX-7 put out 255hp, yet lay waste to fat 300hp pigs like the Z-car, 3000GT, and C4 Vettes. The RX-8 is supposedly weighing in around 2800lbs also. Sometimes less is more. :)

Originally posted by GOFAST
I think that the rx-8 should have the same amount of power or more than the Nissan Z. What happens when we pull up to the 'Z' at a stop light and get humiliated?

You might learn something important, like how silly it is attaching any real importance to how fast your car is? There will *always* be a car out there faster than yours. Deal with it.

We already know the RX-8's engine is going to have less power than the Z. It's just going to weigh a lot less, too.

Oh, and I'd suggest you get the Z. It'll help my insurance rates when you crash it instead of the RX-8.

Originally posted by PatrickB
...There will *always* be a car out there faster than yours... Especially when you're buying off of the showroom floor.

Frankly, if your measure of a car is what it can merely do at a stoplight (*yawn*), then you probably need to look at something like a Mustang.

---jps

I'm not even replying because this guy is a 10 year old idiot.

I just say this much, go buy a Z, and when a turn comes.. we'll see who gets humiliated.

I hope u all remember that this is a FORUM, and everyones opinin counts. I was just stating that if the 8 is going to for the same price as the z then the specs should be the same. People in the forum are fast to post reply's and and be ruthless without understanding the original question. I have a racing background. I race streetbikes, and i build and test them. I also tuned exotic cars, and most likly have driven cars u people read about. So dont tell me that i dont know how to drive, and that i am going to crash my car when i get one. The original RX-8 EVOLV was rated at 280hp...i was just dissapoited that they are tunnig it down. And at this point i now realize why there are soo few people left in this forum. I am sorry for intruding in your forum, and apologize. At least i dont want a windsheild wiper that turns on when i put it in reverse!!

Actually, this forum is growing, and growing very fast. The excitement over the RX8 is getting more and more heated the closer it gets to being launched. And please don't make assumptions about what people have and haven't driven here- this is the internet- it's NEVER safe to make assumptions about whom you're talking to.

As for the 350Z and the RX8- they are completely different types of cars. If you want raw power, you're better off with a Z, or maybe a Mustang, Camero, or Firebird. The RX8 is about handling, and all the power it has is just an excess bonus.

And please, don't take this the wrong way- but when you come in to a forum, it's usually best to read it for a while to see the kind of posting that's going on, and check out other threads to see if your question has already been answered before. There have been a lot of posts here recently where the same question that had a 5 page thread last week is asked again.

Anyway, don't leave just yet- it'll probably be worth your while to stick around a bit. Once they get used to you here, it makes it a bit easier.

Originally posted by GOFAST
...People in the forum are fast to post reply's and and be ruthless without understanding the original question... Maybe some of the responses weren't the warmest/friendliest, but I don't see anyone saying anything about you not knowing how to drive or that you will crash your car. You should realize that your post may have come off alot different from what you intended. All it really mentions is a stoplight HP deficit, how is anyone supposed to know the rest of the story? And then when you could have responded with a "That's not what I meant..." kind of response, you responded with a "You are all jerks..." kind of response instead, pretty much making you what you accused us of.

It goes both ways.

---jps

I would fathom that 99% of the people on these boards are NOT racers. We for the most part, enjoy driving, and enjoy the handling of a car over the power.

Your name alone tells enough about what you're interested in. Let me make it easy for you. RX-8 isn't for you. Stop trolling. Go to the Nissan Z boards and just tell them how awesome their car is.

I'll be happy losing a race to the Z as long as I can gain rotary, better build quality, and better handling.

You can keep trying to race us. We'll just smile and let you pull away at the stop light, and you can get the ticket.

Guys and gals,
We are going to get 1000's of threads like this the closer the car comes to production (and after production begins). Just hang out at www.s2ki.com/forums and you'll see what I mean.
Like my mother always says, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
I think we should put beside the logo for the RX-8 forum at the top: "The car for driving enjoyment, not straightline speed." :D Although we are living in quite a time where everyone is saying "The RX-8 needs more power/torque/superchargers/turbochargers/nitrous" simply because it doesn't go 0-60 in 5 or 4 seconds... :rolleyes:

I thought everyone was saying the car needs a custom baby seat for the back...

Originally posted by pelucidor
I thought everyone was saying the car needs a custom baby seat for the back...

Yep, plus enough horsepower to really snap that baby's head back and pin it to its seat...
There is a lot of crazy conflictions here. Basically, if you put it all together, we want Mazda to build a 2500 lb, 400 HP, 400 lb-ft, 2 door, 4 door, 2 seater, 4 seater, sub-$20000, RX-8. :D
Come on guys, repeat after me...
"I love the RX-8 just the way it is, I love the RX-8 just the way it is..."
Of course, I'm typing this with "tongue in cheek", but in all seriousness, we shouldn't be so judgemental before we see one in the flesh and slide behid the wheel. Then I don't mind critiques, but I have a feeling there will be mostly praises.

Originally posted by Grimace
Guys and gals,
We are going to get 1000's of threads like this the closer the car comes to production (and after production begins). Just hang out at www.s2ki.com/forums and you'll see what I mean.
Like my mother always says, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."


I agree - I also believe that some of the veterans on this board have developed an online 'ego' on this forum. Like grimace said - as this car comes closer to production - alot of different people with different opinions will become members. I hope most of you guys dont plan on gunning down every new member that comes in here. Lets not give people the understanding that RX8 owners are bastards/mean. :p :p :p :p

GO FAST: Just because the RX-8 and 350Z are a similar price doesn't mean they need to have the same horsepower or 0-60. What would you do if you pull up to a light next to a Camaro/TransAm - cheaper, faster to 60 and therefore perhaps vastly more embarassing? You say you ride motorbikes so you should appreciate the idea of lightness and agility in a vehicle as opposed to 1-dimensional brute force.

Enjoy the car for what it is trying to be, don't complain about what isn't designed to be (at least until the car is on sale).

I'm sticking to my theory that this is a pre-pubescent kid that has no mind for anything except power (which most Americans do anyway).

Anybody that's driven an exotic for any reason knows that there's very little technology involved in the power, the majority of the technology comes in for the handling of the car. Exotics aren't raced, if you had noticed... they are taken to a track and lapped and auto-xed.

Seriously, I have no patience for people like this. They come trolling on the board just saying "oh the RX-8 will get embarrased" and they try to play it off like they aren't trying to be idiots.

I tire of these threads quickly, so I'm stopping here before I really start getting mad :mad:

count to 10 Hercules
:D :D

Originally posted by GOFAST
. What happens when we pull up to the 'Z' at a stop light and get humiliated?
No person with a real racing background would post something like this. Nuff said.

Originally posted by Quick_lude

No person with a real racing background would post something like this. Nuff said.
Amen to that.

Now ladies, let’s all relax and not get too excited!!! :p :p :p

If anything, I think that GO Fast's post just shows an enthusiasm for the car. He made a direct comparison to the Z, but in doing so, just stated that he hopes the RX8 has the same kind of power.

I too would hope that the RX8 carries as much power. But I am glad that I didn't state as much, because of the reaction generated. I am not a performance guru. I couldn't tell you if a supercharger is better than a turbo for this car, or a lot of cars for that matter. I have learned a lot from this forum however. Blue Adept, Toadman, Velo, Tribal and host of others have definitely shown me a lot of patience in answering my questions, and not judging me for my lack of knowledge. To you guys, and all the others that have helped me thanks. I hope that the courtesy shown to me will also be shown to everyone else. I think a lot of us, no matter how old, become like kids in a candy store, when it comes to this car. We have an unbridled excitement, and appreciation for the car. I don't think that most people join the forum to talk mess about the car. I hope everyone will take this into consideration.

well said!

Originally posted by houstonRX8
If anything, I think that GO Fast's post just shows an enthusiasm for the car. He made a direct comparison to the Z, but in doing so, just stated that he hopes the RX8 has the same kind of power.

I too would hope that the RX8 carries as much power. But I am glad that I didn't state as much, because of the reaction generated. I am not a performance guru. I couldn't tell you if a supercharger is better than a turbo for this car, or a lot of cars for that matter. I have learned a lot from this forum however. Blue Adept, Toadman, Velo, Tribal and host of others have definitely shown me a lot of patience in answering my questions, and not judging me for my lack of knowledge. To you guys, and all the others that have helped me thanks. I hope that the courtesy shown to me will also be shown to everyone else. I think a lot of us, no matter how old, become like kids in a candy store, when it comes to this car. We have an unbridled excitement, and appreciation for the car. I don't think that most people join the forum to talk mess about the car. I hope everyone will take this into consideration.
Look, when you start making bullsh*t lies like "I race exotics" and all this crap he's already said... it irks me. Because any decent racer has an understanding of mechanics and doesn't even say "Embarrased" when more than 90% of the time the two cars will be a measure of drivers.

Besides the launch times that the Z is putting out will wear the clutch out faster than you will believe... So this moron can keep doing his stoplight racing and I'll keep my car to drive another day.

I just have no patience for liars and morons.

Originally posted by Hercules

Look, when you start making bullsh*t lies like "I race exotics" and all this crap he's already said... it irks me. Because any decent racer has an understanding of mechanics and doesn't even say "Embarrased" when more than 90% of the time the two cars will be a measure of drivers.

Besides the launch times that the Z is putting out will wear the clutch out faster than you will believe... So this moron can keep doing his stoplight racing and I'll keep my car to drive another day.

I just have no patience for liars and morons.

Ok, thats all fine and good, but I think the best policy is just not to respond in the first place. Of course, that's just my humble opinion, and everyone can do what they like, but that's what I'm going to try and do in the future.
95% of people check two things when reading about cars in magazines: 0-60 and horsepower. I admit it, I was the same way years ago before I started lurking on www.miataforum.com. Then I "saw the light" so to speak. Now the first two stats I look for are weight and slalom speed. The latter still isn't a good indication of handling, so I read the text for driving impressions (with a grain of salt of course). But in doing so, I'm definately in the 5% minority.
So for those newcomers to the board, 95% won't agree with our driving philosophies, and likely will not hang around long. C'est la vie. I say just let them come and go without too many flames.

That's the thing, I don't know if what he is saying is true or not. If it isn't, just let it go and ignore it. Why justify it with an answer? I actually should have included you (hercules) in the people who have helped me. I know that I have asked some pretty basic, and to a lot of the guys here- stupid questions; just laugh it off, and move on to the next thread.

Who cares?

And from now on, if I ask a dumb question, please let me know. At least then I know, that I'm being laughed at.....

:D :D :D :D :D

Originally posted by Grimace


Ok, thats all fine and good, but I think the best policy is just not to respond in the first place. Of course, that's just my humble opinion, and everyone can do what they like, but that's what I'm going to try and do in the future.
95% of people check two things when reading about cars in magazines: 0-60 and horsepower. I admit it, I was the same way years ago before I started lurking on www.miataforum.com. Then I "saw the light" so to speak. Now the first two stats I look for are weight and slalom speed. The latter still isn't a good indication of handling, so I read the text for driving impressions (with a grain of salt of course). But in doing so, I'm definately in the 5% minority.
So for those newcomers to the board, 95% won't agree with our driving philosophies, and likely will not hang around long. C'est la vie. I say just let them come and go without too many flames. You're a better man than me, I just get irritated and must lash out :P

But yes, I'm also in that minority that doesn't care so much about 0-60 times, because how often are you going to drop the clutch to get out of a red light? Almost never. But I'm happy cruising in a car that is fun to drive, lightweight, agile and tossable.

That's what I'm looking for in the RX-8.

Remember folks: It's okay to disagree, but let's not get insulting or to aggressive about our opinions. ;)

And while I agree that stoplight/street racing is a bad idea, I would like to hear any one of us say that we have never done it, or that we never wished our NA rotaries packed more punch. I'd be prone to thinking that person has brown eyes from being so full of excrement. :D

Let's not hate the kids because they are kids. I'll bet most of us hated adults with that attitude when we were kids. :) IMHO, bringing them into the fold and educating them in a non-condescending way is preferable to chastising them into never coming back here to learn anything. :)

So, let's all calm down, and remember that intelligent neutrally balanced discussion is the reason this forum is so great. And let's also remember to lurk and search to find out if our conversations are repeats of last weeks heated argument. Can everyone live with that? :cool:

Altough you guys may hate to realize it but stop light racing is a good measure of the performance of a car and it is the only way the 95% of the people Grimace spoke of are gonna be exposed to the potential of the 8. You can be quick to write that off but I would take it seriously because if we want this car and Mazda for that matter to succeed we need a good number of those 95%'ers to buy this car.

If you are a true racer you know the importance of straight line performance because you can HAUL A$$ through the infield but when you hit the straitaway and get passed by a Z then waist the entire lap trying to catch him through the corners and then get walked on the next straight it would really annoy the hell out of me!! *

* Disclaimer: I don't feel this is the case, the 8 shouldn't have any problem holding its own especially when the renesis starts sreamin' to 9k when the VQ whatever is shifting at 6200. But out of a tight chicane or hairpin it could be a issue.

Herc: I'm not a better man, I'm a slower typer. I get irritated too, and usually start to type a smart-ass response, but a few lines into my response I tire of it. Being a slow typer is like counting to ten. :D

Originally posted by Grimace
Herc: I'm not a better man, I'm a slower typer. I get irritated too, and usually start to type a smart-ass response, but a few lines into my response I tire of it. Being a slow typer is like counting to ten. :D
>90 WPM here :D

Originally posted by Hercules

>90 WPM here :D
Dude, you need to switch to decaf! ;)

Originally posted by NOTA V6

Dude, you need to switch to decaf! ;)
I don't drink coffee or tea :)

I do have an occasional diet soda though.. that diet pepsi twist is not too bad :)

That Pepsi blue sucks.

Originally posted by Immi
That Pepsi blue sucks.
I swear they just bottled up toilet water..

uh, guys... this is an RX-8 forum....

ya, Pepsi blue sucks!! :D

I think you guys are being a little harsh...

I think if a MPS version with 300 HP (turboed or tweaked) came out the smae time as the the RX-8 model you would chose the one with more horspower. Sure a RX-8 will be better than a 350Z but no one here is going to complain if Mazda added some extra HP.

BTW HIGH torque is not every thing and it may not even be safe or economical but it is a lot of FUN!!!!!!!

Originally posted by stan11003
I think you guys are being a little harsh...

I think if a MPS version with 300 HP (turboed or tweaked) came out the smae time as the the RX-8 model you would chose the one with more horspower...

I wouldn't. 0-60 in 6 with 250 HP is fine with me. I don't want to spend huge amounts of money either. The regular RX-8 holds more appeal to me. Would make a better daily driver.
Now, if Mazda came out with a more fuel efficient RX-8 vs. a 250 HP RX-8, that'd be something else to consider...

or how about a "Zero" emissions steam (water spray and hydrogen) powered 8?? eh?? EH??? ;)

i could see it... well, if the silly US Gov't signs onto the Kyoto accord...

Funny you mention that. I read the rotary engine is THE best candidate for conversion to hydrogen, even compared to a piston engine.

I still don't see any practical method of storing hydrogen though.

Originally posted by fuz
I still don't see any practical method of storing hydrogen though.

That's still the big problem - storing enough to give a car a decent range.

in the steam powered application, one wouldn't need much hydrogen to energize the water mist to boil...

but actually, i saw a few years ago of a tank in which was "grown" (sort of just chemically created) a dense matrix of carbon which made little holes to hold hydrogen molecules in VERY close proximity, thus eliminating the storage problem... but yes, that method is BLOODY EXPENSIVE...

i think the biggest deterrant to hydrogen power today is simply lack of facilities (which comes from no one actually owning a hydrogen powered vehicle), and total vacancy of tax incentives for people with "Zero" emissions vehicles, thus no one wants to buy a hydrogen powered vehicle...
so here lies this circular problem... Honda already designed a hydrogen electrolysis refueling station (solar powered, hydrogen from the city water...), but i don't know of anyone building them because people aren't buying the hydrogen powered cars which don't yet exist... <<sigh>>

I WANT ONE NOW... but alas... governments are slow, and the US's is especially short sighted, as far as environmental policy is concerned... :(

Fuel cell is probably a better alternative than running a chemical fuel into a mechnical energy converer as you lose one of the conversions of energy, drastically increasing efficency. Basically like comparing a filament bulb to an LED.

Of course, that means no more motor; the asthetics and idea of a car would be very different.

not to mention the price tag: i'm not willing to pay for a platinum + carbon fiber sandwich ($$) which is only more efficient at combusting (oxydising) a clean energy source (hydrogen) anyways... that difference in consumption of a COMPLETELY RENEWABLE AND REALLY CLEAN energy source simply isn't worth it (IMO)...
and the benefit of the rotary "Zero" emissions steam powered engine (the hydrogen only plays a small part in energizing the water droplets into vapor) can make REAL power and torque, is light, simple, and MAKES SOME NOISE!! :D
the idea of a $100 000 sports car that's silent and slower than my echo doesn't appeal to me...
now, ya ya, electric motors aren't THAT bad... i know, but i'm just saying that the rotary is a better solution, all factors considered...

:) think of a world in which every other car is rotary powered... "I TOLD YOU SO" would be the anthem of Mazda and rotary enthusiast drivers everywhere... :p

Actually the storage of hydrogen is extremely difficult unless you can keep it at absolute zero (expensive and difficult), or in magnetic stasis (heavy, expensive, and power hungry). Hydrogen is so small it would leak though all but the most ridiculously dense material, making a normal tank or drum, far to heavy and large to be practical. I think at best, we can hold hydrogen at near absolute zero, in a thick insulated tank, but it still cost a lot to make the tank, get that amount of hydrogen into liquid form, and half of it still leaks through every 24 hours.

I think steam powered is a far-fetched idea. Sure, it makes a lot of power, but first you have to burn the hydrogen to make heat, then you convert the heated water to mechanical energy. Doesn't sound too bad, but considering the difficulty of obtaining any significant amount of hydrogen, this is far too inefficient and I suppose, impossible to support without a very heavy refueling infrastructure. Gas is only converted to mechanical, but with a lot of waste heat so it's fairly efficient; fuel cell works at the atomic level to covert H to electricity, then to mechanical energy, but is very efficient as there is little waste. (It does provide more power than a battery at least.) Every time you make an energy conversion, you lose a lot of the energy that you put in. e.g. Put in 100W into a laser, and only 1W makes it out as light--mostly due to the unused energy byproducts.

The size and mass of equipment needed would surely affect the efficiency of a steam engine to move something small like a car. It’s ability to operate in temperature extremes at such a size would be questionable, particularly in hot environments where the radiator would be in question, unless made extremely large, yet still must support the high pressure of its contents.

Starting up a steam engine would also be rather comical, as you’d have to sit and wait as the water started boiling and the pressure rose high enough to drive. This is not quite practical in cold environments, where you would need to burn excessive amounts of hydrogen to get the engine started and maintained at proper temperature. Sitting at a stoplight, or in traffic would waste tremendous amounts of energy as you can’t really just lower the hydrogen burned, as you have to maintain water temperature.

To deal with variable temperatures, you need a variable heat exchange system. Then we have the hydrogen tank, the burner, the piping, the insulation, etc. Maintenance of such a mechanically complex system would be nightmare, if it could fit. ;)

I'd place my bets on bio-diesel rather than anything hydrogen powered. The long carbon chains hold a lot of energy in the bonds (like regular gas), no storage problem, fairly cheap to make fairly quickly (unlike H), runs in today’s engines, and we'd be the best suppliers in the world (until global warming turns the great plains into desert). Unfortunately, I don't think a rotary will run bio-diesel too well. :( And I think a turbine would run steam much better than a rotary. You could run piston, like an old locomotive, but turbine is vastly more efficient.

I know this was long, but I still can’t fill all the info I want. However I think the thread is officially hijacked. :)

Originally posted by fuz
Actually the storage of hydrogen is extremely difficult unless you can keep it at absolute zero (expensive and difficult), or in magnetic stasis (heavy, expensive, and power hungry). Hydrogen is so small it would leak though all but the most ridiculously dense material, making a normal tank or drum, far to heavy and large to be practical. I think at best, we can hold hydrogen at near absolute zero, in a thick insulated tank, but it still cost a lot to make the tank, get that amount of hydrogen into liquid form, and half of it still leaks through every 24 hours.

Not only is it extremely difficult to cool something to absolute zero, its physically impossible. :D The best you can do is approach absolute zero, but never achieve it. I think they've gotten within a 1/10 of a degree or so under laboratory conditions. Anyhoo, I digress.

But I don't know where you are getting this hydrogen leaking out of contrainer stuff from. :confused: BMW has been running around with experimental hydrogen 7-series cars for years. If even a tiny amount leaked out of the compression cylinders, the car would be a smoking crater once a spark landed near the leak.
The hydrogen doesn't have to be cooled. You can store it in a gaseous state, uncompressed, in a cylinder quite happily. However, you'd get a vehicle range of about 1 mile. Therefore it is compressed to pressures of ~3000 psi (you can go more but its against gov't regulations) to get more H2 into the cylinder. Once compressed in the cylinder, you don't have to cool it using any kind of on-board cryogenics or anything. The container will sit at room temperature no problem. If you were super-duper compressing it (thats the technical term), then yes, you'd have to cool it or else BOOM! 3-6 ksi is fine though.

I think people forget though that hydrogen, while it is the most abundant stuff on earth, is a real pain in the yoohoo to dissociate with the other most abundant stuff on earth, oxygen. The energy required to seperate H and O2 is immense, and where does that power come from? Coal, oil, and nuclear power plants. There is no free lunch. :D

Prices of fuel cells are coming down, and output is going up. It'll still be 20 years until they reach reasonable levels though. A power cell is 70x more expensive than a gas engine per kW of power. :eek: If they ever get them perfected, watch out Wakeech! I'll be scooting past everyone in my silent electric car. Plus, electric motors should shut-up everyone who wants more low-end torque. How does maximum torque at zero RPM grab ya? :D I would miss the sound of the engine though...

yes, exactly... hydrogen leakage out of a metal tank wouldn't be very fast at all... think of the Hindenburg... i mean, it DID go pretty far before the thermite on the outside went kablooey (another technical term... did i spell it right Grimmy??)

oh, btw, why are do you make hydrogen up to be like this super dangerous i'd-rather-use-nitroglycerin-to-power-my-car stuff?? it's not so bad... in fact, gasoline is more dangerous in many ways...

and Grims, i did say that Honda had come up with a hydrogen refuelling station which implements (huge) solar panels to power the dissociation process, and with big ass tanks using city power only as a necessary back-up, the hydrogen could be cheap and pretty damn clean to produce (better than gas anyways...)

yes fuz, trying to use a steam powered car in a climate where the propellant (water) would freeze in the tank would be rather stupid... but i'm not sure you have a handle on what my proposition was for a steam powered rotary...
the water doesn't have to boil or warm up before it's injected: it just has to be liquid. with a temp sensor a computer chip could modulate the amount of hydrogen injected and burned to vaporize the water droplets in the combustion chamber, just using a lot of hydrogen at start up if it's very cold or something: there are ways around it. not to mention that because of the heat-soaking factor that your hydrogen use to maintain temp in the combustion chamber would reduce as the block and rotor itself reached operating temp.

and as for your arguement that a steam powered rotary would be too thermally inefficient, just think about how efficient even the best engines these days are... what, maybe just over 20%?? i'd be amazed if it was even that high. this inefficiency, again, means nothing as the fuel you're using is so damn cheap and clean anyways, so who cares how inefficient it is if you can still operate the car at a price comparative to the gasoline alternative (although eventually operating costs would be lower by virtue of an uncontrolled and perfectly competetive fuel)??

even though costs of fuel cells are coming down, they're still effin' expensive. and ya, that what i mean about "MAKES SOME NOISE!!" :D

Let me throw out the fact that BMW did crash tests on its 740HL vehicles (hydrogen vehicles) from the rear end, and in EVERY test (at varying speeds) the hydrogen just seeped out and dissipated into the atmosphere.

I think hydrogen is the way of the future, because electric engines don't have good enough fuel cell technology to last on long trips.

hey, good point about biodesiel... i read a thing in my student newspaper about a student at the other local university (UBC) who makes this stuff in a barn or something, and runs his own car on it... apparently it smells like french fries...
but yes, it would be a big step in reducing carcinogens and the like in desiel emissions, as it doesn't have all that sulphorous crap in it (coming from used cooking oil... at least that's how he's making his stuff)

I didn't say hydrogen was dangerous. I was pointing out that if the tanks did leak half their hydrogen a day, it would be a dangerous situation. But they don't. So hydrogen is fine. The tanks that they use to hold the hydrogen are really over-engineered so in impacts they hold up without leaks. Make no mistake, if there was a leak, and we're talking gaseous hydrogen, it would explode. But there is almost zero chance for that. I may have been a little over-dramatic with the "crater" comment. :)

I did my thesis on this stuff. Its interesting, but moot until consumers actually WANT alternatives to gas and diesel, or the government mandates it (fat chance of that). Studied ~60 different alternative fuels and vehicle technologies. Took me 14 months to go through the information on it. Lots of alternatives to gas, but no interest at all in implementing them in serious numbers.

Originally posted by wakeech
hey, good point about biodesiel... i read a thing in my student newspaper about a student at the other local university (UBC) who makes this stuff in a barn or something, and runs his own car on it... apparently it smells like french fries...
but yes, it would be a big step in reducing carcinogens and the like in desiel emissions, as it doesn't have all that sulphorous crap in it (coming from used cooking oil... at least that's how he's making his stuff)

Hey. With biodiesel, you could combine a donut shop and a gas station...

Peon:"Boss, I'm done frying a new batch!"
Manager: "Put it out for the cops and poul the oil into the converter so they can gas up while they're here."

-Patrick

...and I thought it would get off topic. Silly me. :D

Originally posted by InBlackPlease
...and I thought it would get off topic. Silly me. :D
Hey after four pages.. what do ya expect :)

Originally posted by Hercules

I don't drink coffee or tea :)

I do have an occasional diet soda though.. that diet pepsi twist is not too bad :)

Euwww..,., that lemon stuff? Tastes like floor cleaner to me! LOL

Just imagine he said "Same Performance" not "Same Power"... then we can both be right at the same time... overall performance is a measure of a lot of things, and on a track these cars are gonna be very close overall... the Z might have it on the streightaway, while the 8 will probably destroy it on braking and cornering.

Who cares... You wouldn't buy either of these cars if all your were interested in was stop light racing... you'd have a TVR Cerbera or somthing... Cerbera Speed 12 anyone?

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/799-1.jpg

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=799

THAT, will eat you alive WHATEVER you're driving.... don't even argue, they measure the Power/Weight ratio in BHP/Kilo!

That TVR is bad ass...

It reminds me of the Corvette Sledgehammer. It was supposed to be a physically stock trim Corvette, that could be ordered out of the factory through a special order code, very hush hush (kinda like GM's COPO program in the 60's). The Sledgehammer was rumored to have 1100hp, it came out sometime in the mid 90's. I've never been able to find out if it is myth or reality, though.

Made by Revs Calloway the same person that is building the Mazdaspeed Protege had twin turbo 5.7 liter engine top speed of 254 MPH and a price of over $100,000 U.S. a lot for a 89 to 92 vehicle when the viper came out it cost around $50 grand.

Yea, it was definitely a Callaway tuner back when he was on GM's payroll...I didn't know he was responsible for the Mazdaspeed Protege. I think he is a widely overlooked tuner, as most American enthusiasts are more familiar with Lingenfelter or Roush, Callaway is just as good. I already had confidence in Mazdaspeed, but knowing Callaway is collaborating with them just makes it all the better.:D

an A-Spec MazdaSpeed RX-7????
how much power do you think that baby'd be pumping, considering they had a Corvette blasting a grand, eh?? ;) just for fun... 500 hp?? 600?? i know it wouldn't last long, but who cares?? :D if you could afford to buy something like that, you could afford to fix it...

Just to let all of you know. Revs is working strictly on the turbo
and related plumbing and systems on the Maz.speed Protege.

Too bad, it would be great if Mazda brought in Callaway for other projects.

I asked Greedy and they'er thinking of coming out with a intercooled turbo for the RX-8 adds close to 100 more HP at 7 PSI
Didn't give an est. on price though but Garret says a system would probably be in the 3 grand U.S. range. I like this the cars not out and ppl are chomping at the bit to come out with performance parts for it.

Dont fret guys.. MAZDASPEED has aftermarket goodies for the 8..and is working on a 300HP version ;)