I have been following the RX8 for about 2 years. In the summer of 2001, the news about the RX8 caused me to put off my purchase of the Acura RSX Type S. As the time passed and more information became available my enthusiasm decreased and my skepticism increased about this "practical sports car like no other". In a year with so many great sports/sporty cars being released my attention was spread in many directions.

As many of you may know, a few months back I "Jumped Ship" and ruled out the RX8. Last month, I ended up buying the EVO (with the S2000 a very close runner-up). So far, I have been thrilled with it, but I'll save that for another thread.

Yesterday, a local mazda dealer called me to see if I wanted to take a test-drive of the RX8 (they just got a bunch in from the second shipment into the port here in New Jersey). I had placed an internet inquiry on Edmunds a few months back so they must have had my number somewhere (and not a lot of buyers lined up for these cars).

I showed up about a half hour before sunset and a titanium, a couple of silvers and a black were right outside the entrance to the showroom. The Sunlight Silver looks great from the front and matches very well with the black tires and interior materials. I still have lukewarm feelings towards the profile as the indentation from the suicide doors is clearly evident and really interferes with the lines of the car. The extended wheelbase and roofline still look odd in person to me. The back was ok, but a little stubby with the short rear end. The black looked really good as the indentation is much less noticeable as is to a lesser extent the extended wheelbase and roofline (I think the black blends in a bit with the black tires).

I sat in the car for a few minutes while the salesman photocopied my drivers license. The car was a Sunlight Silver Touring model and the first thing I noticed were the seats. The cloth seats are excellent as they really reach an excellent balance between grippiness and comfort. I still prefer the Recaros in the EVO, but these are still some of the best seats I found in this class. The gauges are nice, but I've seen better (i.e. RSX Type S). Overall, I would say the interior is nice, but I don't see it as being as luxourious as some have suggested (Maybe the Grand Touring model would be different). :confused: I don't think the visibility out of the rear window is quite as bad as some have said (though there are blindspots that require the use of the sideview mirrors). As for the backseats, the room back there is not huge and I'd even say its not much more than the typical 2X2 sporty coupes. I know they have some decent legroom numbers (perhaps by putting their feet under the front seats), but I just don't see it. I guess the headroom is good, but I didn't pay attention to it. I actually see the lack of room as a benefit as I think it makes the car seem more sporty.

Anyhow, the interior features and specifications didn't interest me much, it was the driving that did. Starting up the car, I could hear the rotary engine ok (a little quiet, but not inaudible as some have suggested). Going into first gear, throttle response was immediate and excellent. The gear shift is very good, but I thought it would be a bit better. The throws are certainly pretty short, but there is just a hint of of rubberiness and slopiness to it. The S2000 and RSX-S had better gearboxes in my humble opinion. I would say it is about the same as my EVO (but with different pluses and minuses). The RX8's is shorter and quicker shifting, but I like the riflle-bolt like precsion of the EVO's. I'm also not a huge fan of stubby gear shift nob of the RX8.

Pulling out onto the highway, it was apparent to me that the missing power issue is legitimate. I shifted to about 7,300 RPM and did not notice any power increase around 6,250 RPM. I'm well aware of the linear torque curve in this car, but the car lacked power at all rev ranges I drove through. In one word, I can describe it: Uninspiring. Now some may say, "well you just aren't used to a high reving powerplant." The fact is that this is my favorite type of engine, and I have driven many of these cars. In comparison, the S2000 was MUCH faster at all rev ranges. The Integra Type R and Celica GTS were also faster at higher revs. The best comparison is the RSX-Type S, which has a very similar torque curve on paper (albeit with less peak torque). The RSX Type S felt as fast through the lower revs and slightly faster at higher revs. These impressions are consistent with some of the drag-strip times we've seen, the Best Motoring video and dyno results.

The other things of note during acceleration was the gearing and the engine sound. With the radio off, I could hear the rotary pretty well (I drive a Ford Escort with a very low redline and no tachometer with the radio blasting so I've learned to listen closely to the engine!) and I liked the sound, but wish it was louder (perhaps removing that engine cover could help?). The gearing is WAY too tall as it seems like forever in each gear. The revs didn't go up as different (i.e. more smoothly and easily) than a piston engine as I had orginally expected.

The handling was not quite what I expected either. The ride quality was about the same as an RSX-S and Celica GTS (a good thing making it feel pretty sporty). The car felt balanced in that I could sense most of the weight being located between the four wheels, but I could feel it shift from side to side on sharp turns (i.e. body roll). The steering was nearly the worst I have experienced on my test-drives of sports/sporty cars. The steering lacked feedback and felt too numb. In additon, the steering was way too slow (due to the high steering ratio and long wheelbase?) and I was not confident taking sharp highway entrance and exit ramps. I did not test the brakes as I didn't feel it was neccessary since they have consistently been rated as excellent. It was a relatively short test-drive of 10 minutes, so I may take another one to confirm my impressions.

I did notice the Protege, Mazdaspeed Protege, Mazda 6 and Miata and was very impressed by the line-up of sporty cars cars Mazda has. In fact, I may go back to test-drive the Mazdaspeed Protege this week (very impressed by the features in this car at a $21K price).

My overall impression of the RX8 is that its not that good of a sports car. Perhaps it is more fun than an entry-level luxury sports sedan (haven't test-driven), but the power issue is serious and really brings this car down. Frankly, I don't see why an unbiased person would choose the RX8 over cars such as the RSX Type S, Celica GTS and even the Mazdaspeed Protege in the same lot? These cars are as fast (if not faster) in a straight-line than the current underachieving RX8. IMHO, they handle better and are more nimble. In the case of the RSX Type S, the interior is at least if not better than the RX8's. Furthermore, they get almost double the gas mileage and are likely to be more reliable (in the case of Toyota and Honda as their powerplants have been proven already). Finally, they are about $8K-$10K cheaper and probobly will depreciate less. Certainly, I can see a rotorhead and a person enamored by the looks of the car choosing it, but I think that's going to be a small niche.

I think if Mazda can get the horsepower issue worked out, then I think it could be more competitive (americans love power!!!). The handling and driving dynamics issues will hopefully be resolved by a Mazdaspped version and/or a 4th generation RX7.

Glad you're happy with your EVO.

It's clear that some of our expectations are a little different than others. What appeals to one person, another person inexplicably finds lacking.

Personally, I think the RX-8 is a blast to drive. I don't give a crap about straight-line street racing power. Yeah, sometimes it's nice to be able to pull out from a light ahead of the person beside you so you can get in the lane you need to. Oh wait, that's a practical driving requirement. Sorry.

See, the RX-8 is here to excel in everyday driving. And it does. It has plenty of power and handles like a dream. (I don't understand how you could think it doesn't handle well.) The rotary is fun to rev, and the shifter is way better than most.

Perhaps the RX-8 is a jack of all trades, master of none. But in the end, it's the TOTAL driving experience that it gives you when you're making your daily trip to the office that makes it special. I actually look forward to getting up in the morning and heading out to work -- because it gives me an excuse to drive my car.

Originally posted by revhappy
My overall impression of the RX8 is that its not that good of a sports car. ..... Frankly, I don't see why an unbiased person would choose the RX8 over cars such as the RSX Type S, Celica GTS and even the Mazdaspeed Protege in the same lot? These cars are as fast (if not faster) in a straight-line than the current underachieving RX8. IMHO, they handle better and are more nimble. In the case of the RSX Type S, the interior is at least if not better than the RX8's.

Nice story, but it can't go uncommented - I think you need more than 10 minutes driving the RX-8. THAT is a given. No way can you deduce accurately all the above, in an unfamiliar car, in 10 minutes. You'll say, "sure I can, I can tell immediately", but you can't.

As for all the cars you mention no unbiased person would pick the RX-8 over - I don't see it. I've driven all the above mentioned cars, but I must have driven different cars by the same name or something?? My lasting impressions of each was:

RSX - nice engine, uninspiring interior, boring exterior, nice handling. A hopped up Civic.

Celica - noisy hi-rev only engine, roller skate handling, good interior and stereo, terrible rear visibility, cheap feeling over-all car

Mazdaspeed Protege - nice little fancied-up Protege, needs power

RX-8 - I'm biased, I own it (Grand Touring to the left there). But I can tell it's a far cry from ANY of the above, I'm sorry but you're just plain talking crazy. It IS fast, but so quiet and smooth you don't FEEL it. The rev rnge is HUGE, you can drive in nearly 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th and do illegal things easily - that's why it's so different from peeky 4-bangers. They are all about slow build and then final RUSH and lots of noise and commotion.

You don't think it handles? - maybe you should go back and check the tire pressure - must of been set to 20 lbs. I may not know everything - but this car CERTAINLY handle well. I't is a very secure, forgiving, nailed down car in the real world. Maybe not going around cones in a parking lot, but that not what it's designed for, or is at all about.

Evo - you didn't compare this, but I did - days before buying the RX-8. Very nice handling, very fast car (read a smile every drive!), I guess I could learn to love it's ugly face and interior - except the seats, they were great - (after all, beauty isn't only skin deep, right?), but not the Easter Basket handle. More expensive than the RX-8. In the end - I didn't want yet another Japanese 4-door sedan, no matter how fast it went.

Truth be told revhappy, if I had the $$$, I have an EVO too, just to get the rush it gives!! I'm sure you enjoy it always!

Perhaps another way I look at these things is that cars are like a wifes. You may not fall in love on the first date, sometimes you have to spend time getting used to one, and the one you thought you'd never marry, may just be the one that makes you the most happy. ;)

I think the reason why you weren't satisfied with the handling is the fact that you test drove a car with the Touring package. That's clearly the worst option package from the handling point of view. You should try one with the Sport package or the Grand Touring package (which includes all the options the Sport package has). You will likely feel a lot of difference as the Touring is set up for just what it's name says - touring.
Of course nobody says the RX-8 is better than anything else out there in it's class - but it's a great drive nevertheless, and the handling (as long the Sport options are there) is truly stellar. I only had one test drive myself, but was very happy with the handling, and let me tell you - I'm not easily satisfied in this department.
However, fuel economy SUCKS. For sure.

Thanks Revhappy for your review.

I will changing over from my current car (Protege 5 Automatic) to the RX-8 (GS Automatic) next week, pending the outcome of my test drive, which will take about an hour. Although it will be like comparing apples and oranges, let's hope the RX-8's handling can beat the Protege 5.

I'm glad to hear that the RX-8's engine/exhaust was not too loud. I like to listen to music, without cranking it up to deafening levels, or have a conversation, while driving.

Regarding your comment on the side exterior view, I think the beauty of the continuous curve outweighs the line created by the suicide doors:

revhappy. I completely love the RX-8, but I can agree with many of your points. I would never consider an RSX or Celica in comparo the the RX-8. I am waiting to see how this missing horsepower issue pans out and this gas mileage really upsets me. Perhaps if I were making more money it wouldn't bother me as much.

The other car I am considering purchasing (which is a very different car at that) is the Acura TSX. I truly hate it when cars like the RX-8 come up short on things so important like gas mileage. As much as I badly want the car, the yearly cost of gas (it being premium too) may sway me to the Acura TSX. I have to tell you though that I am trying to find every excuse to get the RX-8 even though the TSX makes more sense for the money.

I haven't heard anyone compare the Acura to the RX-8 really (at least in this price category).

Just to add to the zealotry, I will comment that I too test drove a lot of these cars you mention and for my personal taste the RX-8 blew everything away in the overall package. It's not as fast off the line as some, but thats not something I look for anyways in a car. I personally love the rear seats. Make no mistake, they are MUCH more comfortable than you seem to give them credit for. I also love the sound and feel of the engine and the overall look of the car is awesome to me.

Finally the handling cannot be faulted. I've deliberatly done some stupid looking things in the car in nice big parking lots and the control and response is fantastic. Plus the DSC really does it's thing well. I had to glance at the dash to make sure I had managed to trip it a few times, but actually didnt feel anything other than the car NOT sliding around.

To each his own of course. My fiance isnt a big fan of the car because I didnt get leather (ugh), but thats OK. I'll drive my car, she can keep hers. And let me tell ya, after driving a RX-8 all week, getting into a automatic G20 felt like sitting on a comfy park bench and sliding all over the place. I cant belive I actually drove that car 8 hours once.

NO MORE! RX-8 for meeeee!

Forgot to add, tangierc, didnt you see the EPA sticker on the window? Cant fault the car for a "problem" that is quite easy to see up front can we?

Originally posted by Spin9k


Nice story, but it can't go uncommented - I think you need more than 10 minutes driving the RX-8. THAT is a given. No way can you deduce accurately all the above, in an unfamiliar car, in 10 minutes. You'll say, "sure I can, I can tell immediately", but you can't.

Oh, I will be doing another test-drive, don't worry. :D

Originally posted by Spin9k
As for all the cars you mention no unbiased person would pick the RX-8 over - I don't see it. I've driven all the above mentioned cars, but I must have driven different cars by the same name or something?? My lasting impressions of each was:

RSX - nice engine, uninspiring interior, boring exterior, nice handling. A hopped up Civic.

Celica - noisy hi-rev only engine, roller skate handling, good interior and stereo, terrible rear visibility, cheap feeling over-all car

Mazdaspeed Protege - nice little fancied-up Protege, needs power


We all have different priorities I guess and I take it you place more imprtance on luxury and refinement. I probobly should have added that to my list in the first post. Still, I thought the RSX-S had a fantastic interior.

Originally posted by Spin9k
RX-8 - I'm biased, I own it (Grand Touring to the left there). But I can tell it's a far cry from ANY of the above, I'm sorry but you're just plain talking crazy. It IS fast, but so quiet and smooth you don't FEEL it. The rev rnge is HUGE, you can drive in nearly 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th and do illegal things easily - that's why it's so different from peeky 4-bangers. They are all about slow build and then final RUSH and lots of noise and commotion.

The RSX-S has a very similarly shaped torque curve as the RX8 and is quite a bit different than the Celica, ITR, etc. I did not notice the RX8 being any faster on the butt dyno nor on the speedometer (hate the small digital speedo). The dynos, Best Motoring Video and the drag-strip times have showed this as well. The HP issue seems credible to me now.

Originally posted by Spin9k
Evo - you didn't compare this, but I did - days before buying the RX-8. Very nice handling, very fast car (read a smile every drive!), I guess I could learn to love it's ugly face and interior - except the seats, they were great - (after all, beauty isn't only skin deep, right?), but not the Easter Basket handle. More expensive than the RX-8. In the end - I didn't want yet another Japanese 4-door sedan, no matter how fast it went. [/B]

I've compared them before (when I ruled out the RX8 and went for the EVO) so I'm not going to get into that again. BTW..the model I got (w/o the sunroof) lists for $30,062 and I paid $29,319 (with a free year of service). The model with the sunroof (most expensive model) is about $750 more. The Grand Touring model is more than that I believe?

Originally posted by Spin9k
Truth be told revhappy, if I had the $$$, I have an EVO too, just to get the rush it gives!! I'm sure you enjoy it always! [/B]

I took one of my best friends and his girlfriend for a ride today in the mountains, they just went like this: :eek: the whole day!

Originally posted by Spin9k Perhaps another way I look at these things is that cars are like a wifes. You may not fall in love on the first date, sometimes you have to spend time getting used to one, and the one you thought you'd never marry, may just be the one that makes you the most happy. ;) [/B]

LOL..now I know why I am still single! :D

Originally posted by Tamas
I think the reason why you weren't satisfied with the handling is the fact that you test drove a car with the Touring package. That's clearly the worst option package from the handling point of view. You should try one with the Sport package or the Grand Touring package (which includes all the options the Sport package has). You will likely feel a lot of difference as the Touring is set up for just what it's name says - touring.
Of course nobody says the RX-8 is better than anything else out there in it's class - but it's a great drive nevertheless, and the handling (as long the Sport options are there) is truly stellar. I only had one test drive myself, but was very happy with the handling, and let me tell you - I'm not easily satisfied in this department.
However, fuel economy SUCKS. For sure.

The Touring has everything the Sports package has plus a sunroof and some other goodies. With the exception of some extra weight and perhaps a small loss in structural rigidity/increase in the center of gravity, the Touring is the same car. I wouldn't expect a huge difference.

Originally posted by Canada
Thanks Revhappy for your review.

I will changing over from my current car (Protege 5 Automatic) to the RX-8 (GS Automatic) next week, pending the outcome of my test drive, which will take about an hour. Although it will be like comparing apples and oranges, let's hope the RX-8's handling can beat the Protege 5.

I'm glad to hear that the RX-8's engine/exhaust was not too loud. I like to listen to music, without cranking it up to deafening levels, or have a conversation, while driving.

Regarding your comment on the side exterior view, I think the beauty of the continuous curve outweighs the line created by the suicide doors:

Hey, great current car! I rented the Protege earlier this year and thought it was an excellent car. It is by far the most fun car in its class (I've rented most of them before).

Please keep in mind that my review was in relation to other sports/sporty cars. The RX8 is a phenomanal car compared to the broader range of vehicles.

Originally posted by tangierc
revhappy. I completely love the RX-8, but I can agree with many of your points. I would never consider an RSX or Celica in comparo the the RX-8. I am waiting to see how this missing horsepower issue pans out and this gas mileage really upsets me. Perhaps if I were making more money it wouldn't bother me as much.

The other car I am considering purchasing (which is a very different car at that) is the Acura TSX. I truly hate it when cars like the RX-8 come up short on things so important like gas mileage. As much as I badly want the car, the yearly cost of gas (it being premium too) may sway me to the Acura TSX. I have to tell you though that I am trying to find every excuse to get the RX-8 even though the TSX makes more sense for the money.

I haven't heard anyone compare the Acura to the RX-8 really (at least in this price category).

The TSX is definitely a safe bet. The RX8 should be more fun and you will definitely feel cool in it. :)

That was a very interesting review there, revhappy. This is because I'm actually considering the other two cars (RSX-S, Celica GTS) along with the RX-8 (6MT with Sports package). I know, it's a totally different class, price range, blah blah blah... but I'm weird that way. I was looking at those two cars and then discovered the RX-8 and was willing to stretch my budget a bit to consider it. I am looking for a fun car to drive and am biased towards the coupe styling that all these 3 cars have.

Like you, I've test driven all 3 of them and was able to relate to where you are coming from. With a budget that was intended for cars that are under the $25k range, justifying the purchase of the RX-8 is really more about seeing how much you can get per dollar.

Unlike you, I placed more bias towards the interior and thought that the RX-8's interior looks the best. I liked the short, stubby shifter and the overall feeling of solid construction of the knobs and switches (with the exception of the storage covers along the central tunnel). At the same time, I liked the tactile feel of the material on the RSX-S' dashboard. The gauges do look nice but I prefer the electroluminiscence of the RX-8 because I feel that is how gauges should look like for newer or future cars. The ergonomics and design of the RSX-S' interior is really good but somehow lack the excitement that the other 2 cars give. I somehow prefered the Celica's cockpit-like design where the central console is sloped down so that all the controls are easily within reach and gives the cozy feeling of being in a fighter jet. However, the material quality of the interior feels like cheap plastic compared to the other two cars. As an added bonus, the RSX-S has auto-climate control.

All 3 cars have very nice shifters. The Celica's shifter feel is the worst of the 3. But then, it's still good when compared to cars like the WRX, which I test drove on the same day. I'm a little disappointed with the gear ratios though because it can't fully take advantage of the Celica's narrow powerband. I can't really see the big difference between the shifters on the RSX-S and the RX-8. But I do agree with your observations. I do feel that the RSX-S's is slightly smoother and has longer throws at the same time (mostly due to shifter knob's height) but I'm not too discerning on which is really better. Both are just as good to me. Pedal feel also felt the same to me but the RSX-S' should've come with the metallic ones like the other two cars (no big deal but still a difference).

As far as seats go, they felt the same too but the preference goes toward the two cheaper cars because they come with leather (remember, I can only afford the Sports Package on the RX-8). The shoulder wings on the RSX-S is the most prominent of all three but I felt that the Celica's seat is the most comfortable. Furthermore, the RSX-S' seat felt too high (no different than a Civic's), which detracts from its sporty intentions. The cloth seats on the RX-8 is as good as the best cloth seats can go and I don't miss the leather seats of the other two for the grippier cloth and the trade-off for less temperature sensitiveness (leather frost bites when cold and burns when hot).

I'm not too really concerned with the blind spots either and it was never a consideration point when looking at these cars. IMO, these blind spots remind you that you're driving a sports car and it adds to that driving feel. I'm not saying blind spots are good; but don't you agree that, even though the WRX out-drags and maybe out-corners the other cars, would you feel the same sports car feel on the WRX compared to the 3 cars?

As for acceleration, I also relate to your point about the two cheaper cars feeling faster. I think it's mostly due to the i-VTEC and VVTI-L of the RSX-S and Celica's engines respectively. As they switch to the higher breathing cam profiles, our butt dynos felt the pull on the cars. Another thing is the wind and road noise. They are usually cues on how fast a car is going. Not to say that these two cars have bad NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) insulation, but I think the RX-8 felt docile because its engine builds power very linearly and has better NVH insulation. I remember having a hard time trying to guess how fast the RX-8 was going. Perhaps your perception of acceleration has been deceived by the aforementioned cues? Personally, I'm divided between the jekyll and hide nature of the I-4's and the linear feel of the rotary. The little boost from the I-4's can be fun but it could get irritating, especially on the very narrow powerband of the Celica's. I also like the frugal fuel consumption nature from those small engines at times when I sit idle in traffic or when I'm not driving aggressively. But then, there's this novel feeling of the smoothness of the rotary at stratospheric rpm's that could get quite addictive.

As far as handling goes, I can't really tell which is better just by test-driving them on public roads. Streering feel is sharp and direct on all 3 cars. RSX-S required more noticeable steering effort (maybe because of the smaller wheel or ratio?). However, I was able to feel that the Celica has the least body roll compared to the other 2. Other than that, I can't really tell how well these cars handle without freaking out the salesman sitting beside me. Therefore, I can only decide the handling based on the magazine numbers. Yeah its magazine racing but there's no way to find out the cars' limit yourself unless the manufacturer gives you that opportunity for events like the Rev-It-Up or BMW's Performance Driving School.

Exterior-wise, it's all about personal subjective preferences. All 3 cars have the sport intentions by the way the wheel sits by the far end of each corner. The RSX's styling is quite bland but at the same time has some elegance to it befitting someone who likes a sporty coupe styling but wouldn't like to be associated with the immature, high school age, ricer types (no offense to the high-schoolers, just the immature types). I like the aircraft canopy shape of the cabin's roof on the Celica. The Celica's look is polarizing. You either like the sharp, chiseled lines or you don't. I for one think it's very well done and still looks unique (except when sitting next to a 350Z). Every generation of Celica has always stood out from the crowd during its time and the styling has always aged well. I think this generation will, too. For the RX-8, I like the form follows function philosophy in the styling. The prominent fenders and the low wheelbase-to-length ratio suggests go-kart handling. The low center of gravity is hinted by the low hood. However, like the RX-7, the low hood sometimes gives the illusion that the RX-8 has a high roofline. I don't care much of the rotary accents, but I like the 18-inch wheels and headlights/taillights design. The functional vents behind the front fenders are a nice touch.

In the end, I still couldn't make up my mind on which car to get. But I had to reply because I happened to be one of those nutty characters that are considering an RX-8 over the other two cars. Why? Because, like what the other RX-8 owners have been chanting on every thread like this, the RX-8 attracts on the overall package. To me, it's the emotion it exudes when you look at and while driving it. It's the sound of the rotary and the anticipation of the redline chime to shift up at 9,000 rpms as you watch the tach climbs. It's about how well the steering, pedals and shifter work together as you rev-match and downshift while approaching a corner. It's the fun of sharing this same feeling with your 3 other friends which the car has room for. The RX-8 is also attractive for its low center of gravity, low polar momentum and 50/50 weight distribution. These are the inherent characteristics of the chassis design. Anything else on the car can be added (more hp, stiffer suspension, etc) but you can't add those chassis characteristics after getting the car. This is also why I like the Celica, because it's very light compared to other cars in its class. Light cars require less effort to accelerate, turn, and brake. You can't add lightness to a car without gutting the interior or adding a carbon fiber hood.

I still can't answer the question of whether the RX-8 is worth the extra $5,000 though (~$28k for the RX-8 Sports package, ~$24k for the Celica, ~$23k for the RSX-S). At this point, I'm hesitant because of the suspected missing hp, the cabin heat/ a/c issue, SUV-like fuel consumption, and the bugs that usually come on first year models. Therefore, I'm waiting and biding my time until these issues are addressed by Mazda. Besides, I'm not willing to pay full MSRP for any car (remember, I'm all for value for the money). But, I would really like to get a new car soon, and the other two cars (I'm leaning more towards the Celica) would probably be my pick if I finally got tired of waiting.

Originally posted by tangierc
revhappy. I completely love the RX-8, but I can agree with many of your points. I would never consider an RSX or Celica in comparo the the RX-8. I am waiting to see how this missing horsepower issue pans out and this gas mileage really upsets me. Perhaps if I were making more money it wouldn't bother me as much.

The other car I am considering purchasing (which is a very different car at that) is the Acura TSX. I truly hate it when cars like the RX-8 come up short on things so important like gas mileage. As much as I badly want the car, the yearly cost of gas (it being premium too) may sway me to the Acura TSX. I have to tell you though that I am trying to find every excuse to get the RX-8 even though the TSX makes more sense for the money.

I haven't heard anyone compare the Acura to the RX-8 really (at least in this price category).

Since you mentioned it, I'll say a few things about the TSX in the spirit of comparing anything to the RX-8 in this thread. I also test drove it the same day after the RSX-S. I wasn't really planning on test driving it because I wasn't considering it in the first place. But I was talking about the RX-8 with the salesman while on the RSX-S' test drive and it led to the discussion on the TSX and then a test drive. I wasn't able to rev up the 2.4 liter 4-cylinder because it's not a demo car, so I can't comment on its acceleration.

To me, TSX is all about value for the money. For 28k, you get a very nice and quite luxurious interior. At that same price, you can't get powered leather seats or sunroof on the RX-8 (Mazda should've make the options more flexible, but I digress). Just like any Acura or any German cars, the tactile feel of the knobs, levers, and storage covers/doors are excellent. The gauges, which are also electroluminescent like the RX-8, are very nicely done. Like the RSX-S, the 6-speed shifter is buttery smooth and a joy to use. Everything is refined. It's quiet and has a comfortable ride. It felt tight like the RSX-S but doesn't have its road noise. You sit higher in the TSX like any other sedans and thus feel slightly more roll due to your higher CG (center of gravity).

Like the newer Acura's, the exterior is nicely done and carries some elegance. However, to some people, it looked bland. But I still think it looks better than the other sedans in its class (Altima, Maxima, Passat, A4) despite lacking the character or personality of the German cars, for better or worse.

There's not much else I can add to it. I didn't even try the back seats at all and never really paid attention to the details as I wasn't planning on buying one. Comparing it to the RX-8 is basically comparing it to what you can get per dollar. In that sense, you get more luxury and refinement at the expense of less sports car feel which the RX-8 has. Additionally, you may get better service from Acura (concierge, loaner car, etc). And with any other Honda's, the car should run trouble free with minimal maintenance.

I am going to be purchasing an Evolution 8 as part of a deal with a friend that is working with me in some investing as payment so I recently test drove one and compared it to my 93 RX-7 (which is making over 350RWHP now) and the RX-8. I like the tight turning ratio, and honestly the Evo 8 felt faster to me, a 250whp that weighs 500lbs more than a 350whp car? Thats right. My Rx-7 turned a low 12 on street tires last time I was at the drag strip, which is a lot quicker than an Evo 8, but the Evo 8 still felt faster, in my opinion I think its because of how smooth the rotary engine is vs reciprocating. The FD zooms right to 8500RPM without a hitch. Thats just my opinion though, and I think going fast and handling well are a lot better than feeling fast. Heck try going 50 in a Pinto and it will probably feel fast. Personally I am buying an RX-8 because of the comforts and styling it offers. Plus honestly I dont think the gas mileage on it is that bad, the EPA ratings compared to IS300, G35C and other cars in its class are pretty similar.

Revhappy - it's interesting that I had somewhat similar feelings to you about the RX-8 (on performance aspects at least) during my first test drive (I stayed under 7000rpm). I liked the car, loved the interior of the GT, thought it was too quiet and slow - except that I looked at cars around me and thought they were stationary or in reverse. When I thought I was doing 50 I was at 80 and so on.

I have test-driven many, many cars - get invites to all the MB, BMW, Lexus, Cadillac etc events and make it a point to check out other interesting rides every now and again. I have never driven an RSX-Type S but get regular RSXs as loaner cars from Acura when my MDX is being serviced, and I have driven the Celica GT-S - the RX-8 is several leagues above them in every single respect except noise produced. Of all those other cars I was interested enough about to revisit, only three cars have gotten better with the 2nd and subsequent test-drives: the Miata, the S2000 and the RX-8. Most cars stop impressing when the euphoria of being in something new wears off (e.g. BMW 330i, G35, Boxster, A4, A6, MB C320, S430 etc). In the case of the RX-8, my 2nd and third drives (last time in a demo car with 4 adults on board and an hour after a test in a G35) were a revelation. Let me say that I thrashed that car as best I could on the (quiet) roads and in an empty carpark over 20mins and signed a check a few days later.

The G35 was faster, the EVO was much faster still and hugely fun, but the RX-8 was 'special' and hugely fun - perfect for me. I can imagine one day perhaps getting bored of the EVOs speed - and then what is left to attract me to that car? The G35, at the end of the day, is yet another big, fast sedan with gizmos and a good price. The RX-8 is fast enough for me already (fastest car I've owned - noticably better than my IS300 if you rev it) and may get even better if Mazda steps up to the plate. To me it has gorgeous styling from almost every angle, the red/black GT interior is stunning and practical - even my wife comments on how much easier it is to get the baby seat into the back compared to the IS300. I make a point on every test drive to sit in the back whilst the salesguy drives off the lot (or when my wife is testdriving) - the RX-8 has about as much usable space in the back as the IS300 or BMW 330i, the incredible thing is it doesn't look like it has that space (by rather clever design).

I've had the car for just over a week now and about 550 miles. Two personal examples of it's handling and deceptive speed:

Every day on my way to work I have to exit a highway and cross three lanes of a feeder road in 200 yards and get on a sharply curving (120 degree) steep up-ramp to another road. In my IS300 I have taken this up-ramp maybe 200 times at speeds between 10-25mph - and it felt scary at 25mph with concrete walls a few feet on each side (think airport carpark spiral going up, but wider). Last week, the first time I took this route in the RX-8, I accidentally (deceptive RX-8 speed again) squealed the tires on the RX-8, and after braking to check speed, found the digits reading 42mph. At that time instead of emitting a shriek of terror that I was about to wreck my new baby on the concrete barriers, I let out a whoop of joy - the car was PLANTED and felt so stable and in control (unlike my IS300 at 25mph).

A few miles from my house there is a small circular pond with a wide smooth strip of tarmac making a 90 degree off camber corner around it, but from a distance it looks like a gentle high speed curve. A year ago I went around that corner for the first time ever in the IS300 at a reasonable 40mph and spun the car across the road - my first and only spin out on public roads in that car. I never went around that corner again at over 20 mph. Today, on purpose, I went around that same corner at precisely 40mph in the RX-8, no drama, no fuss, the car could easily do more.

Some may say my IS300 is just crap at handling, but the magazines all agree it is about the best handling/steering sport sedan out there below the M3. Personally I think the RX-8 has superb handling and ride and grip and steering and so on. You get the drift - try one again and make it a GT with red/black leather next time.

Originally posted by revhappy

The Touring has everything the Sports package has plus a sunroof and some other goodies.

You're correct - I was wrong. :o
Honestly, I'm still surprised that you didn't find the handling to be very good...

Revhappy lost his objectivity on the subject as soon as he purchased the evo. Many others who test drove all that you did including your evo and the RX8 came to completely different conclusions. The only difference, they waited to buy until they test drove them all. I test drove all that you mentioned, what you drive, and many others, prior to buying the RX8. I can not see any of the numerous flaws you found with the RX8, your whole post reads like a bad case of rationalization. If I were buying again, I would stick with the numerous objective evaluations on the subject, before even considering one as subjective as yours. Enjoy you evo, I am truly enjoying my 8.

Originally posted by revhappy
Pulling out onto the highway, it was apparent to me that the missing power issue is legitimate. I shifted to about 7,300 RPM and did not notice any power increase around 6,250 RPM.Not a criticism of you, but of the dealer - folks, this is why you should never buy a car off the lot; if this car wasn't a dedicated demonstrator, this was certainly not a good example of following break-in...

I keep hearing about missing power with the RX8. Acceleration from low revs to high revs is very strong and even better once you get past the 6K rev range. I don't feel the there is any power missing in mine. Maybe there are ECU settings that aren't quite "up-to-snuff" in some of the cars?

Even during break-in and just taking the revs to 5K RPMs gave strong acceleration.

While the RSX/TSX are fine cars in their own right, I didn't get the same "quality feel" in them as I did with the RX8.

In all truthfullness, if 0-60 is near top of the list of things you're looking at in a car, none of the typical sports cars mentioned (350Z/G35, TSX/RSX, etc would be on my list. I'd be looking at V8s in the Mustang or maybe a used Corvette. That's where you're going to get the "best in class" 0-60.

The EVO or WRX are also good cars, but you sacrifice a lot of refinement in the process.

*nod* I think some bias really comes in when you've grown a habit of bashing on a car... then you expect it to perform a certain way in your mind.

I drove the S2000, G35C, 350Z, and lots of other cars before the RX-8 and the only car that really felt better was the S2000, but given its obscene loudness, only two seats, and crappy stereo... it was impractical. Impractical but fun :) However the RX-8 was nearly up to the S2000's par on the 'fun to drive' factor, while not matching it in power, so I went for it.

The Evo is like the S2000... very fun to drive, very fast, but unfortunately not a car I could live in on a day-to-day basis.

But hey, that's just me.

Originally posted by downshift
That was a very interesting review there, revhappy. This is because I'm actually considering the other two cars (RSX-S, Celica GTS) along with the RX-8 (6MT with Sports package). I know, it's a totally different class, price range, blah blah blah... but I'm weird that way. I was looking at those two cars and then discovered the RX-8 and was willing to stretch my budget a bit to consider it. I am looking for a fun car to drive and am biased towards the coupe styling that all these 3 cars have.

Like you, I've test driven all 3 of them and was able to relate to where you are coming from. With a budget that was intended for cars that are under the $25k range, justifying the purchase of the RX-8 is really more about seeing how much you can get per dollar.

Unlike you, I placed more bias towards the interior and thought that the RX-8's interior looks the best. I liked the short, stubby shifter and the overall feeling of solid construction of the knobs and switches (with the exception of the storage covers along the central tunnel). At the same time, I liked the tactile feel of the material on the RSX-S' dashboard. The gauges do look nice but I prefer the electroluminiscence of the RX-8 because I feel that is how gauges should look like for newer or future cars. The ergonomics and design of the RSX-S' interior is really good but somehow lack the excitement that the other 2 cars give. I somehow prefered the Celica's cockpit-like design where the central console is sloped down so that all the controls are easily within reach and gives the cozy feeling of being in a fighter jet. However, the material quality of the interior feels like cheap plastic compared to the other two cars. As an added bonus, the RSX-S has auto-climate control.

All 3 cars have very nice shifters. The Celica's shifter feel is the worst of the 3. But then, it's still good when compared to cars like the WRX, which I test drove on the same day. I'm a little disappointed with the gear ratios though because it can't fully take advantage of the Celica's narrow powerband. I can't really see the big difference between the shifters on the RSX-S and the RX-8. But I do agree with your observations. I do feel that the RSX-S's is slightly smoother and has longer throws at the same time (mostly due to shifter knob's height) but I'm not too discerning on which is really better. Both are just as good to me. Pedal feel also felt the same to me but the RSX-S' should've come with the metallic ones like the other two cars (no big deal but still a difference).

As far as seats go, they felt the same too but the preference goes toward the two cheaper cars because they come with leather (remember, I can only afford the Sports Package on the RX-8). The shoulder wings on the RSX-S is the most prominent of all three but I felt that the Celica's seat is the most comfortable. Furthermore, the RSX-S' seat felt too high (no different than a Civic's), which detracts from its sporty intentions. The cloth seats on the RX-8 is as good as the best cloth seats can go and I don't miss the leather seats of the other two for the grippier cloth and the trade-off for less temperature sensitiveness (leather frost bites when cold and burns when hot).

I'm not too really concerned with the blind spots either and it was never a consideration point when looking at these cars. IMO, these blind spots remind you that you're driving a sports car and it adds to that driving feel. I'm not saying blind spots are good; but don't you agree that, even though the WRX out-drags and maybe out-corners the other cars, would you feel the same sports car feel on the WRX compared to the 3 cars?

As for acceleration, I also relate to your point about the two cheaper cars feeling faster. I think it's mostly due to the i-VTEC and VVTI-L of the RSX-S and Celica's engines respectively. As they switch to the higher breathing cam profiles, our butt dynos felt the pull on the cars. Another thing is the wind and road noise. They are usually cues on how fast a car is going. Not to say that these two cars have bad NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) insulation, but I think the RX-8 felt docile because its engine builds power very linearly and has better NVH insulation. I remember having a hard time trying to guess how fast the RX-8 was going. Perhaps your perception of acceleration has been deceived by the aforementioned cues? Personally, I'm divided between the jekyll and hide nature of the I-4's and the linear feel of the rotary. The little boost from the I-4's can be fun but it could get irritating, especially on the very narrow powerband of the Celica's. I also like the frugal fuel consumption nature from those small engines at times when I sit idle in traffic or when I'm not driving aggressively. But then, there's this novel feeling of the smoothness of the rotary at stratospheric rpm's that could get quite addictive.

As far as handling goes, I can't really tell which is better just by test-driving them on public roads. Streering feel is sharp and direct on all 3 cars. RSX-S required more noticeable steering effort (maybe because of the smaller wheel or ratio?). However, I was able to feel that the Celica has the least body roll compared to the other 2. Other than that, I can't really tell how well these cars handle without freaking out the salesman sitting beside me. Therefore, I can only decide the handling based on the magazine numbers. Yeah its magazine racing but there's no way to find out the cars' limit yourself unless the manufacturer gives you that opportunity for events like the Rev-It-Up or BMW's Performance Driving School.

Exterior-wise, it's all about personal subjective preferences. All 3 cars have the sport intentions by the way the wheel sits by the far end of each corner. The RSX's styling is quite bland but at the same time has some elegance to it befitting someone who likes a sporty coupe styling but wouldn't like to be associated with the immature, high school age, ricer types (no offense to the high-schoolers, just the immature types). I like the aircraft canopy shape of the cabin's roof on the Celica. The Celica's look is polarizing. You either like the sharp, chiseled lines or you don't. I for one think it's very well done and still looks unique (except when sitting next to a 350Z). Every generation of Celica has always stood out from the crowd during its time and the styling has always aged well. I think this generation will, too. For the RX-8, I like the form follows function philosophy in the styling. The prominent fenders and the low wheelbase-to-length ratio suggests go-kart handling. The low center of gravity is hinted by the low hood. However, like the RX-7, the low hood sometimes gives the illusion that the RX-8 has a high roofline. I don't care much of the rotary accents, but I like the 18-inch wheels and headlights/taillights design. The functional vents behind the front fenders are a nice touch.

In the end, I still couldn't make up my mind on which car to get. But I had to reply because I happened to be one of those nutty characters that are considering an RX-8 over the other two cars. Why? Because, like what the other RX-8 owners have been chanting on every thread like this, the RX-8 attracts on the overall package. To me, it's the emotion it exudes when you look at and while driving it. It's the sound of the rotary and the anticipation of the redline chime to shift up at 9,000 rpms as you watch the tach climbs. It's about how well the steering, pedals and shifter work together as you rev-match and downshift while approaching a corner. It's the fun of sharing this same feeling with your 3 other friends which the car has room for. The RX-8 is also attractive for its low center of gravity, low polar momentum and 50/50 weight distribution. These are the inherent characteristics of the chassis design. Anything else on the car can be added (more hp, stiffer suspension, etc) but you can't add those chassis characteristics after getting the car. This is also why I like the Celica, because it's very light compared to other cars in its class. Light cars require less effort to accelerate, turn, and brake. You can't add lightness to a car without gutting the interior or adding a carbon fiber hood.

I still can't answer the question of whether the RX-8 is worth the extra $5,000 though (~$28k for the RX-8 Sports package, ~$24k for the Celica, ~$23k for the RSX-S). At this point, I'm hesitant because of the suspected missing hp, the cabin heat/ a/c issue, SUV-like fuel consumption, and the bugs that usually come on first year models. Therefore, I'm waiting and biding my time until these issues are addressed by Mazda. Besides, I'm not willing to pay full MSRP for any car (remember, I'm all for value for the money). But, I would really like to get a new car soon, and the other two cars (I'm leaning more towards the Celica) would probably be my pick if I finally got tired of waiting.

Downshift,
Excellent analysis! 2 years ago I was cross-shopping the RSX-S, WRX and Celica GTS. I had rented an automatic Celica GT on a vacation (drove it over 1,500 miles) and was extremely impressed with the handling. I ruled out the WRX immediately as it had a lot of body roll and the gearbox was horrible. It was a struggle deciding between the Celica and RSX, but eventually the Celica's narrow powerband (needs another 1-2K RPMS) and gearbox left me slightly leaning towards the RSX-S. Stll, the Celica is a fine car and is one of the best examples of the way a mass-produced sporty car should be tuned.

Good luck with whatever car you choose.

Originally posted by RX8-U-UP
Revhappy lost his objectivity on the subject as soon as he purchased the evo. Many others who test drove all that you did including your evo and the RX8 came to completely different conclusions. The only difference, they waited to buy until they test drove them all. I test drove all that you mentioned, what you drive, and many others, prior to buying the RX8. I can not see any of the numerous flaws you found with the RX8, your whole post reads like a bad case of rationalization. If I were buying again, I would stick with the numerous objective evaluations on the subject, before even considering one as subjective as yours. Enjoy you evo, I am truly enjoying my 8.


That's why I specifically did not compare it to the EVO (mostly) and instead contrasted the RX8 with other cars I did not buy. I know these cars and have driven them several times(since I came very close to buying them, but passed and waited for the RX8).

BTW..how would an RX8 owner's retrospective review fall on this bias scale?

Originally posted by Hercules
*nod* I think some bias really comes in when you've grown a habit of bashing on a car... then you expect it to perform a certain way in your mind.

I drove the S2000, G35C, 350Z, and lots of other cars before the RX-8 and the only car that really felt better was the S2000, but given its obscene loudness, only two seats, and crappy stereo... it was impractical. Impractical but fun :) However the RX-8 was nearly up to the S2000's par on the 'fun to drive' factor, while not matching it in power, so I went for it.

The Evo is like the S2000... very fun to drive, very fast, but unfortunately not a car I could live in on a day-to-day basis.

But hey, that's just me.

What about the bias inherent in the following of a car for several months or years? Certainly many people invested a lot of time and energy on this board. Furthermore, there is something to be said about the bias that naturally develops to prevent someone form admitting they were wrong (i.e. "folks I spent thousands of hours on this board and it was a total waste of time since this car did not live up to my expectations").

Originally posted by revhappy


What about the bias inherent in the following of a car for several months or years? Certainly many people invested a lot of time and energy on this board. Furthermore, there is something to be said about the bias that naturally develops to prevent someone form admitting they were wrong (i.e. "folks I spent thousands of hours on this board and it was a total waste of time since this car did not live up to my expectations"). Touche... but I had been driving other cars up until the RX-8 and when I did.... i was very pleased.

To each his own.

I think the odd thing is that you make mention of the items that are deemed pretty good, like the shifter, as being poor. Now that may be your personal feel of it since you're used to the Evo shifter (which is subpar, imo but I digress). Most reviews and people will give the credit on that to the RX-8. I think that's why your review is getting flack.

Besides, if I went to the Evo forums and told them about how the Evo was a subpar car, then they wouldn't take too kindly to it either. This is why I just find it pointless you even stick around here.. you got your car, and nothing from you thus far has brought about interesting debate, only flames from both sides (the RX-8 owners et al), and really provides a poor platform for discussion.

I checked out the Infiniti G35C, ruled it out yet, I don't stay on the FreshAlloy forums putting the car down like you (and Skyline and others) do. I have the sense to leave and chat about the car I chose. Perhaps you'd do the same. Then again, given the stubbornness of the trolls (and it's not been you but others), they won't ever leave because they have nothing better to do, and love that attention that mommy never gave them (Skyline et al).

Cheers.

Impulsive Revhappy wrote "BTW..how would an RX8 owner's retrospective review fall on this bias scale?"

Revhappy, I did not give a restrospective review for all to see how biased I was, YOU DID. I objectively reviewed for myself all cars I was considering prior to forking over 30K. YOU are the one that DORKED over 25K on a hunch. Now obviously, you have to build up your decision by bashing something you did not objectively evaluate before the purchase. I did my homework, you did your homework late, so it doesn't count. Try and enjoy your impulsive decision. I am truly enjoying my well thought out, and totally objective decision.

I suppose we should consider it a back handed compliment that so many come in here to "bash" the RX8.

Fact is, if those who found the RX8 such a "bad car", why on earth would they be in here in the first place? And why would they feel it to be so neccessary to bash it in this forum when they know the folks here bought it because we found it superior than the rest of the competition?

It's great that some of you bought something else, but the reason the vast majority of us are here is because we love the RX8. Unless jealousy comes into play, maybe?

After reviewing Revhappy's post on the forum since Sept of last year, I am covinced he is an EVO TROLL. Heres a few of his objective quotes from April.

"The RX8 seems (for my tastes) to be too soft and makes too many compromises. IMHO, its design seems to have too much GT mixed in with the sports car mixture. I loved the powerplant and the 50/50 weight distribution, but the relatively softly tuned suspension (compared to the other cars here) and excess weight (for a high reving NA engine) turned me off. "

"I would have purchased the EVO this week, but I need to wait for a garage to become available in my apartment complex (the wait shouldn't be too long). If I haven't bought the EVO by the time the RX8 comes out, I'll give it a test drive, but it will most likely be for entertainment purposes only."

"After driving the EVO back to back with the 350Z and the S2000, the performance (overall) was not comparable. I highly doubt the RX8 will come close. Over on evolutionm.net, I have read a few owners of FDs past and present saying the EVO is quite close to it in performance."

"What road course is this? On the Streets of Willow the RX8 lost to the G35 and the Cobra. Are you seriously suggesting the RX8 will outperform the FD or an EVO on a roadcourse? I highly doubt the RX8 will outdo the EVO in autocross let alone a track that the EVO can use its straightline power advantage in."

"My final decison will be based on back-to back drives between the S2000 (S2200, if it does come out) and the RX8 (hopefully with it being a mass-produced vehicle some will be available for test drives) and perhaps the EVO8 (though I doubt it will be available for test drives anytime soon)."

This is just a few of his predetermined remarks. His underminning BS goes on and on. Read back through last year, it is neat to watch a devious mind weave a webb in what he thought was a subtle way. What goes around comes around, and now all of your post make a lot more sense. GOTCHA

Oh great, anyone who doesn't pick the RX-8 as first choice gets labeled as a troll. Great objective evaluation here~ Is it wrong to expect more from the RX8 forum?

Also, Herc it's been months since you got humiliated on FA and also here for being a RX8 troll, let it go already. Your bitterness only demonstrates your sore loser mentality and ignorance toward valid arguments and counter points. It's quite amazing to see a moderator with such attitude these days. Take all the cheap shot at me you want, it still won't make your first choice car any faster or more fun to drive. So be it if you are still insecure about your final choice. All you ever post is either 'so and so is a troll for they don't agree with me' or 'power is not important and neither is track time, so long as it's fun to drive'.... I am pretty sure we can make a Herc-bot program that can do that.

Originally posted by Hercules
Touche... but I had been driving other cars up until the RX-8 and when I did.... i was very pleased.

To each his own.

I think the odd thing is that you make mention of the items that are deemed pretty good, like the shifter, as being poor. Now that may be your personal feel of it since you're used to the Evo shifter (which is subpar, imo but I digress). Most reviews and people will give the credit on that to the RX-8. I think that's why your review is getting flack.

I never said the shifter was poor. I said it was very good. However, I pointed out the pluses and minuses of it, which I think any good review should do. I said its about equal to the EVO with different benefits and negatives. BTW, since you have never driven an EVO, how do you know how its gearbox works? :confused:

QUOTE]Originally posted by Hercules
Besides, if I went to the Evo forums and told them about how the Evo was a subpar car, then they wouldn't take too kindly to it either. This is why I just find it pointless you even stick around here.. you got your car, and nothing from you thus far has brought about interesting debate, only flames from both sides (the RX-8 owners et al), and really provides a poor platform for discussion. [/QUOTE]

THe difference is that I've been on this forum long before I even considered buying an EVO. My impression of it (before I drove it) would be that it would be a more powerful version of the WRX (which, I did not like and actually preferred the more RX8-like RSX-S and Celica GTS) and that it would suck gas like an SUV. I've been posting on this forum for a year (and lurking for 6 months prior to that), which is a bit different than you going onto a forum and slamming the car on your 1st post.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Hercules
I checked out the Infiniti G35C, ruled it out yet, I don't stay on the FreshAlloy forums putting the car down like you (and Skyline and others) do. I have the sense to leave and chat about the car I chose. Perhaps you'd do the same. Then again, given the stubbornness of the trolls (and it's not been you but others), they won't ever leave because they have nothing better to do, and love that attention that mommy never gave them (Skyline et al). [/QUOTE]

So anyone having a negative view towards the RX8 is a troll? I'm sorry, but there are a lot of people that have been disappointed by the RX8. Its performance is below expectations (remember last Fall when many people thought it would be superior to the S2000 in all performance categories??), the improved fuel economy and its "clean" emissions never really came to fruition. I can go on and on, but to me it was dissapointing.


Look, I like a lot of what the RX8 has to offer. High-reving engine, great suspension, fantastic brakes, some great lines. I just think they made too many compromises. Since I thnk Mazda monitors this forum, perhaps if enough people speak up we might get a better version of the RX8 one day.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Is it wrong to expect more from the RX8 forum?

Too sweeping. Just because you're angry don't trash the whole forum.

Originally posted by RX8-U-UP
Impulsive Revhappy wrote "BTW..how would an RX8 owner's retrospective review fall on this bias scale?"

Revhappy, I did not give a restrospective review for all to see how biased I was, YOU DID. I objectively reviewed for myself all cars I was considering prior to forking over 30K. YOU are the one that DORKED over 25K on a hunch. Now obviously, you have to build up your decision by bashing something you did not objectively evaluate before the purchase. I did my homework, you did your homework late, so it doesn't count. Try and enjoy your impulsive decision. I am truly enjoying my well thought out, and totally objective decision.

Actually, it was a bit more than a hunch. I test-drove the S2000 back to back with the EVO and liked the EVO better. The RX8 is similar in that its a high, reving, lightweight (in theory) sporty car. Its been well-documented that the S2K easily beats the RX8 in nearly every performance category. Since interior quality and the exterior looks weren't big on my list of priorities, it was an easy decison actually.

BTW.. I spent almost 3 years making this decison (following the RX8 for 2 of them), if that's impulsive then so be it!!!

Originally posted by graphicguy
I suppose we should consider it a back handed compliment that so many come in here to "bash" the RX8.

Fact is, if those who found the RX8 such a "bad car", why on earth would they be in here in the first place? And why would they feel it to be so neccessary to bash it in this forum when they know the folks here bought it because we found it superior than the rest of the competition?

It's great that some of you bought something else, but the reason the vast majority of us are here is because we love the RX8. Unless jealousy comes into play, maybe?

Actually, its because I saw the potential in the car and had high expectations. IMHO, they didn't bring out that potential/exaggerated ceretain claims (fuel economy, "sports car like no other", HP maybe??). Believe me, I like the RX8 much better than say a Mustang, but I'm not going to waste any time on that forum because there is no dissapointment/frustration with the final product (in relation to what was expected).

Originally posted by RX8-U-UP
After reviewing Revhappy's post on the forum since Sept of last year, I am covinced he is an EVO TROLL. Heres a few of his objective quotes from April.

"The RX8 seems (for my tastes) to be too soft and makes too many compromises. IMHO, its design seems to have too much GT mixed in with the sports car mixture. I loved the powerplant and the 50/50 weight distribution, but the relatively softly tuned suspension (compared to the other cars here) and excess weight (for a high reving NA engine) turned me off. "

"I would have purchased the EVO this week, but I need to wait for a garage to become available in my apartment complex (the wait shouldn't be too long). If I haven't bought the EVO by the time the RX8 comes out, I'll give it a test drive, but it will most likely be for entertainment purposes only."

"After driving the EVO back to back with the 350Z and the S2000, the performance (overall) was not comparable. I highly doubt the RX8 will come close. Over on evolutionm.net, I have read a few owners of FDs past and present saying the EVO is quite close to it in performance."

"What road course is this? On the Streets of Willow the RX8 lost to the G35 and the Cobra. Are you seriously suggesting the RX8 will outperform the FD or an EVO on a roadcourse? I highly doubt the RX8 will outdo the EVO in autocross let alone a track that the EVO can use its straightline power advantage in."

"My final decison will be based on back-to back drives between the S2000 (S2200, if it does come out) and the RX8 (hopefully with it being a mass-produced vehicle some will be available for test drives) and perhaps the EVO8 (though I doubt it will be available for test drives anytime soon)."

This is just a few of his predetermined remarks. His underminning BS goes on and on. Read back through last year, it is neat to watch a devious mind weave a webb in what he thought was a subtle way. What goes around comes around, and now all of your post make a lot more sense. GOTCHA

So, honest remarks are somehow "devious"? The fact of the matter is that the EVO didn't even hit my radar screen until the Detroit Auto Show and my shopping list until February or March of this year. I've been a member of this forum since August 2002 and was lurking before that. My interest went back further as evidenced by the following thread I started on Edmunds.com:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?14@77.BtTkb1yR1vC.2@.ef067e7/0

So how long have you been following the RX8??

Originally posted by Lensman


Too sweeping. Just because you're angry don't trash the whole forum.

That was sarcasm meant for a couple of specific individuals, the RX-8 forum is very mature and reasonable. Look through the threads, most discussings are very civil and logical. Then there are people like Herc who tend to be be accusing people of being troll or Mazda haters just because he doesn't like their opinion. No offense to the rest of the forum intended. Sorry if that came out the wrong way.

So the fact that you drove and S2000, and in your eyes they were so similar, that no test drive of the RX8 was required, and you could elliminate both the S2000 and RX8 with one test drive. Well that explains how you logically got to the EVO, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Don't worry Skyline I don't need to resort to your tactics and return to get involved in debates that are one-sided... because one side doesn't want to hear the other. I guess the same is true here.

If I went to the G35 forums and said the G35C is an understeering overweight piece of crap with a terrible shifter... then I'd likely get flamed too. And then I could easily assume the position you're in saying "oh if I don't like it then I am a troll?"

It's very similar; ever since you started comng here there hasn't been one bit of information aside from you being a salesperson for Infiniti. I like the G35C and was going to buy it until I drove the RX-8 and found it to be a better car for me. Your constant nagging of "don't buy the RX-8 because the G35C can do <insert trait here>" type of attitude has made you generally unwelcome. Perhaps you should return to the G35 forums where you can bash on the RX-8 and nobody will care -- oh wait, you've already done that.

If you are here to give out some information which you've done in the past and I do appreciate, then stay, join in. But if you're here to sell us on the G35 then you're really not going to get far, just my $.02.

As suspected, still bitter and bickering like a 5 yr old. Give it a rest~ ;)

Well I'm new to the board and I took my first test drive of the new RX8 yesterday afternoon. Personnally I liked the car alot. I took it on a few backroads and then jumped on the interstate and got up to about 120 in 4th. Overall the ride was a little rougher than I was expecting but I liked the linear throttle response and just the way I felt in the car. I've never driven the Evo 8 but I plan to soon. To me the Evo 8 screams, "To fast to Furious" and I think I would feel like a teenager driving it. To me the Rx8 has a more sophisticated feel to it. I currently drive a 2000 Type R and nothing shifts as well as it, but I get tired of every riceboy in the world reving on me and my wife when we go out. So I've been looking for something that'll set me apart from everyone else and I think the Rx8 might be that car. It brought back alot of memories when I drove a 79 Rx7 back in highschool. I loved that car other than the constant oil leaks but it was alot fun. Thanks for letting me ramble and everyone is entitled to their opinion but just remember don't go on certain car forums and jump on that particular model and then act surprised when people get ticked.

Originally posted by Undecided
To me the Evo 8 screams, "To fast to Furious" and I think I would feel like a teenager driving it.

Me 2 exactly.

I also spent quite a bit of time with both the G35 (as well as the excellent M45) and the 350Z. I even spent some time with the WRX (not the same league as the 350Z/G35 or the RX8 IMHO). First test drive of the RX8, it was game, set, match....game over. RX8 is in my garage.

revhappy -

good review. It's rare today that people can look at a car in a clear and unbiased way. I too was disappointed in the RX8 and felt that it's about 50 hp shy of a homerun.

Also, its unfortunate that "Fast n' the Furious" could taint one of the best performance machines of the last 10 years. We finally get the EVO over here and everyone dumps on it's compromises.

And to those that think revhappy is a troll. Wake up and realize that the RX8 is only a car and it has faults like any other. No car is perfect, every car has its compromises.

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat
revhappy -

good review. It's rare today that people can look at a car in a clear and unbiased way. I too was disappointed in the RX8 and felt that it's about 50 hp shy of a homerun.

Also, its unfortunate that "Fast n' the Furious" could taint one of the best performance machines of the last 10 years. We finally get the EVO over here and everyone dumps on it's compromises.

And to those that think revhappy is a troll. Wake up and realize that the RX8 is only a car and it has faults like any other. No car is perfect, every car has its compromises.

Thanks, Wombat. :) It really is a shame that people will slam the EVO as a "Fast N' the Furrious" car. I don't remember many races in the twisty backroads in that movie (the place it was desinged to drive). They can ingore it all want, it'll just increase my resale value and make it easier to trade up for a later version (a FQ-300 , Extreme or RS Sprint Please) :D

BTW...How is your EVO? I've had mine for a month and its a blast.

I could never buy either of these cars.

There's just something "10 pints of beer and a fight" about them.
They're ugly, no, vulgar, yes that's exactly it, vulgar. Like showing yer arse in the supermarket !
No style, no class, no design.

I'd always feel I had to look "hard" when driving it !

Originally posted by hairyfrog
I'd always feel I had to look "hard" when driving it !

Wow..I never knew it was a porn star's car. :o

I hate it when people bash the Evo, or STi. They are all go and very little show, and that's prettymuch oposite of what FnF is about. Both are some of the best handling sportscars ever produced, and are remarkable performers for their price. They both also have a proven history of racing and to put things in perspective the WRC is bigger in most european countries than NASCAR is here.


Watch some WRC events and it's tough to not get hooked on these cars, I'm not a big creature comforts kind of guy... I want the basics, everything else after that takes a back seat to performance. Those monster wings are there for a reason, I don't like em much but I'll live with it if I ever trade in my WRX for one. I personally think the Evo and STi are beautiful cars in their own way, most of their beauty is brought on by the fact that they don't have to look fast, they just are fast.

Ike

Originally posted by revhappy


Wow..I never knew it was a porn star's car. :o

Now that's vulgar ...:D

Not trying to bash anyone, just my opinion....

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I hate it when people bash the Evo, or STi. They are all go and very little show, and that's prettymuch oposite of what FnF is about. Both are some of the best handling sportscars ever produced, and are remarkable performers for their price. They both also have a proven history of racing and to put things in perspective the WRC is bigger in most european countries than NASCAR is here.


Watch some WRC events and it's tough to not get hooked on these cars, I'm not a big creature comforts kind of guy... I want the basics, everything else after that takes a back seat to performance. Those monster wings are there for a reason, I don't like em much but I'll live with it if I ever trade in my WRX for one. I personally think the Evo and STi are beautiful cars in their own way, most of their beauty is brought on by the fact that they don't have to look fast, they just are fast.

Ike

I love WRC. The things they do with their cars are just unbelievable and very fun to watch. Watching it makes me want to get one of those turbo AWD cars, especially when Subaru always put an ad there during the commercial break :). If I'm rich enough to get a second car, I'd probably be deciding between the STi or Evo. But at this time, I'm just not hardcore enough to settle for a daily driven car that doesn't offer a much better balance between comfort, performance, and style.

Originally posted by revhappy
BTW...How is your EVO? I've had mine for a month and its a blast.

The EVO's great. I'm starting to get the mod bug seeing all these guys getting 40-80whp for less than $2000. Gotta love a turbo for easy horsepower.

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat


The EVO's great. I'm starting to get the mod bug seeing all these guys getting 40-80whp for less than $2000. Gotta love a turbo for easy horsepower.

Yeah, reading some of the posts on that forum makes my car sound slow! I'm staying stock for awhile, but you never know...:D

Reviews are always subjective. It's based on preference. Obviously, the person who started this thread prefers power. Glad you like the Evo.

The looks of the RX8 may not appeal to some, but it does to me and other RX8 owners. The Evo does not appeal to me at all, as in - I will not even give the Evo a second thought. But that's just me .. another subjective reviewer. To each his/her own.

Wtf!

holy thread revival

[/QUOTE]vo - you didn't compare this, but I did - days before buying the RX-8. Very nice handling, very fast car (read a smile every drive!), I guess I could learn to love it's ugly face and interior - except the seats, they were great - (after all, beauty isn't only skin deep, right?), but not the Easter Basket handle. More expensive than the RX-8. In the end - I didn't want yet another Japanese 4-door sedan, no matter how fast it went.

Truth be told revhappy, if I had the $$$, I have an EVO too, just to get the rush it gives!! I'm sure you enjoy it always!

Perhaps another way I look at these things is that cars are like a wifes. You may not fall in love on the first date, sometimes you have to spend time getting used to one, and the one you thought you'd never marry, may just be the one that makes you the most happy. ;)[/QUOTE]


I test drove the EVO prior to purchasing my 8 as well. The only thing the EVO has got on the 8 is HP. I didnt like the exterior or interior, afterall its just a supped up entry level vehicle. But as for HP the EVO is already turbocharged unlike the 8!. I cant wait to turbo my 8!

The EVO has a ton of speed, from what I hear and read. But like the poster above, I won't give the EVO a first or second look. It's looks, on the inside and especially on the outside are extremely unappealing to me. Speed isn't everything in a car. I have to like what I see as well as feel.

I test drove the EVO prior to purchasing my 8 as well. The only thing the EVO has got on the 8 is HP....

And the incredible grip and stabillity of AWD. Amazing car. Too bad most US buyers only seem to appreciate it's 1/4 mile abilities. They should require you pass an "Evo Appreciation" exam before being allowed to purchase one.

If looks didn't matter I would have gotten an EVO too. But looks matter more than anything to me!

The RX-8 just happened to also be fun and sporty to me. I'm not a professional driver/car reviewer, but I can tell you of all the cars I test drove, I just couldn't wait to test drive the RX-8 again, thats when you know you've fallen in love.

The EVO to me looks very econobox for some reason. period. It's got 4 doors and 1988 Japaneese boxiness to it. Unless you know your cars, I'm sure most people wouldn't even know your driving a car thats quite fast. I didn't even consider it. I'm more than aware that it is faster than my RX-8, but my RX-8 is faster than 90% of the cars I see on the road. For 10 grand less you could have gotten a 1999 Camaro Z28 that would blow the doors off the EVO (my old car was the 99 Z28) but I, as I'm sure you were, was looking for something more refined and something that didn't scream hic or teenager. I don't do a whole lot of racing, I just love keeping my car up to 6k RPM while crusining and hearing that hum.

To each his own, but don't come here and say that the RX-8 handles poorly and is slow, there are numbers on many professional car sites that show exactly how much faster it is than the Acura or Toyota. The RX-8's 0-60 is somewhere btwn 5.9-6.1 depending on your magazine of choice. Many have observed even faster times as the engine has been broken in. The skidpad is rated above .90 G's. Again numbers are hard to dispute. As someone poster before feeling fast, and going fast are two very different things. My girlfriends Hyundai (sp?) feels like it's going 100MPH when were cruising at 45, thats not a good thing IMO. :p

It's not so much I mind the post you made, but it seems like you were expecting a Ferrari like experience from a $30k new car.

Thanks for comming, drive through. :)

-Rupes

Why did I even just write all that? I don't think I've made a post that long for quite some time. And now I realize this thread is over a year old, gah!

-Rupes

I'd argue with you people, but, THIS THREAD IS OVER A YEAR OLD!

Hey guys, there's a rumour foatin' around here that this thread is over a year old. Have any of you heard this?

Folks, this thread was written over a year ago and I researched the RX8 for several years before going with the EVO (accumulating a lot of posts on here along the way), so no need to do the 2004 version of this debate.

-Personally i feel the Evo is one of the ugliest cars on the road... I'd rather walk toward my and admire its beauty and sophistication than (in the evo) have to explain to people who have no idea what one is that, "this really a fast car, not just a hopd up grocery getter." You may no like 8 and thats ok, not everyone likes the evo either (me). But to compare it to the celica and rsx and feel those are better cars is rediculous. IMO i can't justify spending 30 grand on a lancer, it may have insane performance but it's ugly as hell and cheap.

Folks, this thread was written over a year ago and I researched the RX8 for several years before going with the EVO (accumulating a lot of posts on here along the way), so no need to do the 2004 version of this debate.
I just gotta do this....got the chance for a test drive on you KNOW what? :D

The thread is OVER A YEAR OLD (did someone already say that? :D) No need to bash someone else's choices just because they didn't like the 8. Let's not antagonize for the sake of antagonizing, okay?

Yeah, lets drop this thread!!

I'll bring it back NEXT year!

I don't do a whole lot of racing, I just love keeping my car up to 6k RPM while crusining and hearing that hum.

-Rupes


Is that wise? :eek: Aren't you getting like 5 MPG doing that?

Not to instigate but I wasn't around last year, so I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I respect the Evo and its performance and just saw pics side-by-side with an Rx8. In terms of looks/performance in the way I see things: The rx8 is a pretty girl and a good athlete but the Evo is butt-ugly girl who's a total athlete. You know who I'm dating..


btw- my uncle races evo 7's

Well I see this post recieved a lot of attention. This may be said already. You say the Celica GTS and RSX feels just as fast. The shorter and lowere the car the faster you are going to feel. Yes the RX-8 lacks power but in a few months a turbo will be coming out if you straight line power. If you want straight line power the RSX and GTS should not have even been considered. Good choice with the evo. The interior in the 8 is extremely nice. Much better than the evo but you have to sacrifice something. Different cars are built for diff. people. But good choice for what you wanted. If you can handle speeding tickets than have fun with the evo. Good luck with the car

Hey, the man likes the Evo better - ok, good for him. But comparing the Evo VIII to a RX8 isn't quite apples to apples. Both take a totally different approach to cars. Nobody will get anywhere with their explanations no matter how elequently spoken they might be. You might as well compare a station wagon to an SUV. :rolleyes:

In terms of looks/performance in the way I see things: The rx8 is a pretty girl and a good athlete but the Evo is butt-ugly girl who's a total athlete. You know who I'm dating..


So I guess it follows that Ike is boning Lou Ferrigno?

The good thing I see from this thread revival is that somebody didn't start yet another RX8 versus (TM) thread. :D

same here it always makes driving anywhere fun thats why you got to watch the tank go down quick ;). i'm sure the evo isn't as fun unless you think your from the fast and the furious.

So I guess it follows that Ike is boning Lou Ferrigno?


Damnit, she said her name was Loucinda, I knew there was something wrong with her boobs! Those were pecs! :eek: :p

Ran across this thread while doing research.

My wife and I are looking for a new car. She is considering the Mazda6 v6 and I got her interested in the RX-8 as well :) I am a car nut - I currently own a hopped up mustang but I was interested in a smaller, sporty, tight fitting sports car w/ a nice sound system.

To make a long story short - we test drove the RX-8 first. Was everything I imagined it would be from looking at it...until I stepped on the gas. The car is killer looking, handles tight, rides pretty well, has deceptivly large back seats, fits like-a-glove, and is super easy to drive. Power was UTTERLY lacking to a point where it completely ruined the fun I thought I was having. Give these cars a turbo or two again, and Ill own one in a heartbeat.

The Mazda6 v6, although a completely different style of car, I admit - seemed much faster and definatly torquey. I cant wait to see what the 06 Mazdaspeed6 AWD Turbo is going to be like.

So, please dont take this as a bash - the RX was so great in so many areas it ALMOST had me overlooking the lack of power...almost. Mazda, if your reading this, make a good car great - give the RX8 some more power, PLEASE!

Jeff

Damnit, she said her name was Loucinda, I knew there was something wrong with her boobs! Those were pecs! :eek: :p
:eek:

:D

Ran across this thread while doing research.

My wife and I are looking for a new car. She is considering the Mazda6 v6 and I got her interested in the RX-8 as well :) I am a car nut - I currently own a hopped up mustang but I was interested in a smaller, sporty, tight fitting sports car w/ a nice sound system.

To make a long story short - we test drove the RX-8 first. Was everything I imagined it would be from looking at it...until I stepped on the gas. The car is killer looking, handles tight, rides pretty well, has deceptivly large back seats, fits like-a-glove, and is super easy to drive. Power was UTTERLY lacking to a point where it completely ruined the fun I thought I was having. Give these cars a turbo or two again, and Ill own one in a heartbeat.

The Mazda6 v6, although a completely different style of car, I admit - seemed much faster and definatly torquey. I cant wait to see what the 06 Mazdaspeed6 AWD Turbo is going to be like.

So, please dont take this as a bash - the RX was so great in so many areas it ALMOST had me overlooking the lack of power...almost. Mazda, if your reading this, make a good car great - give the RX8 some more power, PLEASE!

Jeff

It sounds like you either were test driving the Automatic which has less power, or you didn't have you revs high enough to get the car moving. It is well known that the RX8 has low torque down low, and if you keep the revs higher up, the car can definitely move, WITHOUT a turbo.

Nope, loaded, GT 6-speed.

I have years of experience driving various sports cars. I know that these things need to rev. I was surprised to hear the little "beep" that told me it was time to shift without ever really feeling like it came into its powerband. This car might feel fast to someone whos first car was a 3-cyl geo metro and they moved into the 8. I knew it didnt have that much peak HP, but I was expecting perhaps its weight would help me out there... now, i will say that I weight over 200, my wife is 130 and the little sales dude couldnt have been 120. That IS some extra weight and I imagine it would feel faster by myself....

I mean, my wife - the one that doesnt like to drive fast at all, even asked me if I was flooring it because her 99 Mazda 626 4cyl felt faster....

I have a feeling that Im not the only enthusiast that likes this car but feels its seriously down on power. If anyone is in the Tampa, FL area and wants to show me how the car is supposed to perform (I dont know how I could have drivin it any different), let me know - Im always up for a spirited ride... Otherwise, I stick to my original request " MAZDA, TURBO THIS THING, NOW!" :)

Take care guys.

I drove a Z28 Camaro before this car, had 320 HP, and 300 pounds of torque. It was and felt a lot faster than my RX-8, but I still find my RX-8 more enjoyable. Everyone has a mustang/camaro. Theres just nothing great about them except straight line power. The car was falling apart at 30k miles ugh! I don't get the chance to drive super fast very often, so I like cruising, going slower than traffic so people have to pass me and can check me out.

I love hearing the only production car on the planet with that awesome hum of the rotary engine! When I need to pass someone i'll drop 3 gears go into third and zoom past them, it's not the fastest, but it gets the job done. I think most people don't worry about how their car could be faster, because we bought it knowning that it's more about style than anything else. Hell a 355 Ferrari isn't even as fast as a new Mustang Cobra, that doens't mean I wouldn't take it in a heatbeat! Sometimes it's not how fast you get somewhere, it's how good you look doing it. :)

EDIT: 0-60 is around 5.9 - 6.1. I don't think your 4 banger mazda is faster than that.

-Rupes

It needs more power, in my opinion.

You drive slow so people can look at you? Maybe they're looking at you because your HOLDING UP FRICKIN TRAFFIC!

As for sound, it sounds nice, but not unlike every other import out there.

Glad you like the image that your car gives you but im not the only one that thinks if a car has a "fast" image, it should actually kinda be fast... the RX8 isnt as its delivered... That said, does anyone make a turbo or other power-adder kit for it?

Straight line power.... my mustang will eat the new RX8 alive in corners, stopping, and HP - although my car rides like total crap, has a ton of road/exhaust noise, and gets 10mpg, if im lucky... I definately know my car doesnt have it all, but I was just hoping for some balance in the 8... It just looks a lot faster than it is... I guess thats my main beef when it boils down to it.

Im actually pissed that it wasnt a little faster, as I was liking everything else about it... Its like meeting the perfect girl and finding out she has some crazy STD :)

Jeff

BTW:
http://www.stangonline.com/images/target009.jpg
http://www.stangonline.com/images/target003.jpg

well we now see what your priorities are from your pics of the mustang....

Speed over, well, everything else.

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing you. If speed is your thing, then of course the RX8 isn't for you. But since we are all being honest here, I'd rather drive in my RX8 that is slower than an 80's Rustang anyday.

But, different strokes for different folks.

my mustang will eat the new RX8 alive in corners, stopping, and HP
I have a VERY hard time to believe the first two.
HP, yes, but corners and stopping? Not likely, unless you have some serious mods that would enhance the braking and cornering of that old Mustang.

Glad you like the image that your car gives you but im not the only one that thinks if a car has a "fast" image, it should actually kinda be fast... the RX8 isnt as its delivered... That said, does anyone make a turbo or other power-adder kit for it?

Straight line power.... my mustang will eat the new RX8 alive in corners, stopping, and HP - although my car rides like total crap, has a ton of road/exhaust noise, and gets 10mpg, if im lucky... I definately know my car doesnt have it all, but I was just hoping for some balance in the 8... It just looks a lot faster than it is... I guess thats my main beef when it boils down to it.


Am I missing something here?

Car and Driver (http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=4346) pretty much said the new Cobra killed both the G35 and the RX-8 in straight line power but the RX-8 was the best stopper and it was incredible on the turns. I read another review where the RX-8 again was one of the best stoppers. The TopGear review also loved the way it cornered too and it pulled the same times as the 350Z and M3 on their track. The RX-8 earned the highest marks possible for roll over saftey.

It baffles me how people can have such different opinions on the car. I mean it's like night and day.

Personally, I think there's only two legitamite complaints that I can see with the car and they are the lack of torque and mpg.

well, you'll never convince Mr. Mustang of anything otherwise. He thinks a Mazda 4-banger is faster than the RX8.

I mean, my wife - the one that doesnt like to drive fast at all, even asked me if I was flooring it because her 99 Mazda 626 4cyl felt faster....


I have that exact same car. It does feel kinda fast cuz it makes a lot of noise and hoopla over a little acceleration, but i can tell the difference, the rx blows it away. maybe the smoothness of a rotary was deceiving.

I have a VERY hard time to believe the first two.
HP, yes, but corners and stopping? Not likely, unless you have some serious mods that would enhance the braking and cornering of that old Mustang.

You obviously do not know that Mustangs have the single largest aftermarket following of any car. Parts galore... so yes, I have some mods... Like I said, my car handles better and stops better (except for no abs, so a little skill is involved), but I admit, it rides like crap! :)

Am I missing something here?

Car and Driver (http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=4346) pretty much said the new Cobra killed both the G35 and the RX-8 in straight line power but the RX-8 was the best stopper and it was incredible on the turns. I read another review where the RX-8 again was one of the best stoppers. The TopGear review also loved the way it cornered too and it pulled the same times as the 350Z and M3 on their track. The RX-8 earned the highest marks possible for roll over saftey.

It baffles me how people can have such different opinions on the car. I mean it's like night and day.

Personally, I think there's only two legitamite complaints that I can see with the car and they are the lack of torque and mpg.

THe power was the only thing I was complaining about. I enjoyed every other aspect. I just wanted to point out that I know what a fast car is, because I own one. You guys can bash away - I can admit the shortcomings of one of my favorite cars - some of you people are in denial. Again, what greater compliment can I give the 8 above what I am saying?? -give it power, I will come. :)

I have that exact same car. It does feel kinda fast cuz it makes a lot of noise and hoopla over a little acceleration, but i can tell the difference, the rx blows it away. maybe the smoothness of a rotary was deceiving.

This is possible. The 626 is slow, no doubt - I guess the best thing to say here is that the RX8 didnt FEEL "noticably" faster than our 626. Guys, its possible that I will not be viewing this forum for a while, so if you hear any updates about the 8 getting more power, email me! :)

Jeff

in that old 5.0 you need mods--cause those only put out what--205HP stock.

You obviously do not know that Mustangs have the single largest aftermarket following of any car.
Guess what - I know that :rolleyes:

in that old 5.0 you need mods--cause those only put out what--205HP stock.

Ok, since people are stooping so low....

stock, mine dyno'd at 215 to the wheels and 300 TQ...... Torque is what gets you going anyways... and at twice what an 8 makes, I didnt have any problems dispatching them left and right. Now that I dyno at 429/440, I dont even have to downshift..

BUT, you guys are missing my point... I like the 8, I want one.. it just needs more power!

perhaps you should click on the aftermarket/performance section on this site, rather than the general discussion section.. You'll get more answers there than here.

Ok, since people are stooping so low....

stock, mine dyno'd at 215 to the wheels and 300 TQ...... Torque is what gets you going anyways... and at twice what an 8 makes, I didnt have any problems dispatching them left and right. Now that I dyno at 429/440, I dont even have to downshift..

BUT, you guys are missing my point... I like the 8, I want one.. it just needs more power!

you'll notice that i'm countering your indirectly dissing of the cornering and stopping of the 8, which are very good in nearly everyone's opinion. and not the horsepower/torque issue.

the car definitely can use more torque, i think everyone will agree on that. heck, i agree with that statement and i don't even race. :) It's just your comparisons that are pissing people off. (Ie slower than a 626, an old mustang will stop and corner better, etc). I mean unless your 626 has been heavily modified, there's no way it's faster than the 8. then again the 8 is deceptively fast at times. i remember asking my brother how fast he thot i was going once and he said 50. i was going 70. And I'm skeptical about the stopping and cornering thing like the other guy is. I mean the 8 is comparable or better than the S2000 and 350Z in those aspects.

STOP scaring people away..don't be a bunch of babies, for Christ sake!
Just STOP IT!

maybe the smoothness of a rotary was deceiving.

Quoted for accuracy and importance! ;)

Throw in an ultra quiet cabin to the mix and you really can't feel the speed.
6 sec 0-60's aren't slow by any means. I still can't figure out why people bash the 8's speed all the time when its only .5-.8 seconds slower than the competition (s2K, G35, 350Z)




I felt and heard every MPH in the s2k, eapecially with the top down. I'm constantly checking the gerars on the highway in the 8 because I've been guilty of driving in fourth thinking I was in 6th! Stup[id smooth engine.. ;)

It needs more power, in my opinion.

You drive slow so people can look at you? Maybe they're looking at you because your HOLDING UP FRICKIN TRAFFIC!

As for sound, it sounds nice, but not unlike every other import out there.

Glad you like the image that your car gives you but im not the only one that thinks if a car has a "fast" image, it should actually kinda be fast... the RX8 isnt as its delivered... That said, does anyone make a turbo or other power-adder kit for it?

Straight line power.... my mustang will eat the new RX8 alive in corners, stopping, and HP - although my car rides like total crap, has a ton of road/exhaust noise, and gets 10mpg, if im lucky... I definately know my car doesnt have it all, but I was just hoping for some balance in the 8... It just looks a lot faster than it is... I guess thats my main beef when it boils down to it.

Im actually pissed that it wasnt a little faster, as I was liking everything else about it... Its like meeting the perfect girl and finding out she has some crazy STD :)

Jeff

BTW:
http://www.stangonline.com/images/target009.jpg
http://www.stangonline.com/images/target003.jpg

Nice...any under the hood and jacked up?

I know the 8 is slower straight-line but realize the engine doesn't try to shake itself apart as it approaches redline, so that can confuse the butt-dyno a bit, too.

Check out this thread for track day impressions from a driver who runs a heavily modified Mustang and a stock RX-8:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=37353&highlight=mustang+suspension+track

All I was saying is that my car exceeds the performance of an 8 in many areas, but I can still appreciate the 8 for what it is - or what its potential is... The only thing that is not balanced in the car is the power. Maybe im retarded, but IMO, if a car looks fast, it should be fast.

I've never understood 0-60 being such a huge benchmark, really. When you have to drop the clutch, obliterate the drivetrain, hope for traction, and waste your tires to even get close to the 0-60 times that most manufacturers claim... then again, you can do that on very crappy cars and still get decent results.... .5-.8 is actually a LOT in 0-60 anyways and you are comparing that to cars that already arent that fast (but are balanced).
To me, the real test of a cars power is seat of the pants... I mean, were not racing the clock everytime we drive our cars, are we? From a roll, stepping on the gas, feeling the power... thats what its all about. You can take any car, rev the piss out of it, and get a good 0-60 becuause you are taking advantage of the engine/flywheel/clutch momentum and mementarily using it as horsepower.

Serious as a heart attack - if anyone is in the Tampa, FL area and wants to give me a longer ride than the 15 minutes that I test drove the other night, let me know. I will be happy to return the favor in the mustang.

Jeff

I know the 8 is slower straight-line but realize the engine doesn't try to shake itself apart as it approaches redline, so that can confuse the butt-dyno a bit, too.

Check out this thread for track day impressions from a driver who runs a heavily modified Mustang and a stock RX-8:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=37353&highlight=mustang+suspension+track

Nice link to that Mustang thread.

I know the 8 is slower straight-line but realize the engine doesn't try to shake itself apart as it approaches redline, so that can confuse the butt-dyno a bit, too.

Check out this thread for track day impressions from a driver who runs a heavily modified Mustang and a stock RX-8:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=37353&highlight=mustang+suspension+track

Wow, this is excatly what I am saying. The mustang is faster.. in every way... but the rx8, coming from the factory as a package, is going to be more refined, and a nice driver... This is what I liked about the 8 as well.... I swear, its the last time Im going to say it - IT JUST NEEDS MORE POWER :) If you guys would just agree and echo my point, maybe we all would be driving 300hp rx8s or rx9s in the next year or two!

Jeff

I think the reason people are giving you a hard time (myself included) is the fact that you are one of HUNDREDS of new members that sign up here and say that the RX8 needs more power.

"When's the turbo coming?"

"Any superchargers out there?"

We've heard it all before. The fact of the matter is we know that the RX8's power isnt as high as some of the competition, but for most of us it matters very little, since we look at the overall package, and don't let the one thing get to us that obviously is getting to you. We certainly don't need to hear AGAIN from you.

There are turbo kits that are being worked on, but none are ready. So until then, if you cant deal with the RX8 in its current form, go to 350z.com or somwhere else where speed is primary and everything else is secondary.

Wow, this is excatly what I am saying. The mustang is faster.. in every way... but the rx8, coming from the factory as a package, is going to be more refined, and a nice driver... This is what I liked about the 8 as well.... I swear, its the last time Im going to say it - IT JUST NEEDS MORE POWER :) If you guys would just agree and echo my point, maybe we all would be driving 300hp rx8s or rx9s in the next year or two!

Jeff

You said "my mustang will eat the new RX8 alive in corners, stopping, and HP". That's hardly what the person says in that thread. At this point, unless you have your own experiences from a roadcourse to share, I think any real discussion is over.

As Mugatu said, the power thing pops up in just about every thread on this forum that doesn't have video of, a poll about, or reference to guy's balls in it. Gotta be like 70% at least.

IT JUST NEEDS MORE POWER :)

No, IT is just fine, while YOU need more power. Don't flaw the car because it wasn't designed to meet your personal performance requirements.

On the other hand, I think Mazda pulled the design goals from my brain when they created the 8, lol, so I'm one very happy camper :)

I don't care if a Geo Metro can out-drag me. I promise you he's still not having as much fun.

Wow, this is excatly what I am saying. The mustang is faster.. in every way...
Jeff

im sorry but his statement does not agree with what you just said at all. his full statement-

Right out of the box it's damn near as fast as my modified Mustang. It's a lot of fun to drive at the track, and when the day's over I can turn on the CD player and A/C and drive home in comfort.

is that on his first day at this track with his stock RX-8 with just 2k miles on it is "damn near as fast" around that track as his MODIFIED mustang COBRA.

you are comparing a modified car against one that is stock. it is very clear from his posts that with a little more seat time and maybe some sway bars his 8 will eat his cobra around that track. i have no doubt it will also beat yours. yes the 8 is out of the box under powered compared to its rivals and alot of modified cars. however it's handling and braking are the reasons that many many journalists have chosen it over those higher powered rivals which include the mustang cobra,g35c, 350z etc.

anyone metioned that this thread is over a year old?

I think everyone's being a bit harsh on stangonline. keep in mind that he only tested it for 15 minutes. and he's only saying that the car, as it is, isn't quite for him. he prefers the higher power. People have different tastes. Besides, if everyone thought the 8 was fine, then you'd see them everywhere.

You said "my mustang will eat the new RX8 alive in corners, stopping, and HP". That's hardly what the person says in that thread. At this point, unless you have your own experiences from a roadcourse to share, I think any real discussion is over.

As Mugatu said, the power thing pops up in just about every thread on this forum that doesn't have video of, a poll about, or reference to guy's balls in it. Gotta be like 70% at least.


I guess we each read it how we want to... You obviously wanted to hear that the rx8 was faster... thats not what he was saying - he said it was easier to drive...

I was trying to be unbiased... most of you are obviously biased (see where we are..)..

I think the car is great.. If I had to rate it in the numerous areas.. it would be a 8-9 in many of them but a pitiful 4-5 in the speed department. I would just like to see it more balanced. Im only saying what I would change that would make it MY ideal car. If the fact that the other bells an whistles makes up for its lack of power for you guys, then good, you can be more content than I.

If anyone wants to meet me anywhere - Ill teach your RX8s something - but as I said before, I will be the one needing a kidney transplant when were done, not you... hence the compliments toward the rx8..

enough.

Not very friendly around here. Some of you understand what I have been saying.

I sincerely hope that the rest of you dont represent the typical RX8 owner, or I might have to avoid the car altogether so that someone doesn't mistake me for an a-hole...

Not very friendly around here. Some of you understand what I have been saying.

I sincerely hope that the rest of you dont represent the typical RX8 owner, or I might have to avoid the car altogether so that someone doesn't mistake me for an a-hole...


Your review of it prettymuch looks a lot like my old review. I liked the car a lot, but it lacked power to me, and that seems to be pretty tricky to fix with mods. So because I said I thought the RX-8 needed more power everyone assumes I don't like the RX-8. Just be happy you're getting the new generation of blind loyalists, the last one was far more harsh :p

its so easy to name call and talk noise from the comfort of the computer-- all this bashing aside--if a little tact is employed here and there, things can de-escalate. I don't agree with everything you are saying and I definately don't agree with your attitude; but on the topic of your sentiments about the RX8--wait for Mazda to come out with the Mazdaspeed 8 or aftermarket FI, or get a more torquey car. You've said your 'point' several times I think its time for you to move around, talk about something else--this thread is only going to degenerate.

Just be happy you're getting the new generation of blind loyalists, the last one was far more harsh :p

you know i was thinking the same thing but im glad you said it:) everyone has been actually fairly nice up until the ahole comment there wasnt any name calling at all. peopel have been(are;)) much nastier with you.

did i mention that this thread is a year old? and that revhappy is still around posting on these forums? must be doing something right here to keep him around.

Agreed.. Believe me, I hated bring it up so many times, just about as much as you hated reading it. :) I simply felt that my opinion was not sinking in for some people.

Me: This ball is round. (holding baseball)
Loyalist: that ball is square
Me: If it looks square to you, then fine....but its round...

:)

Ill tell you one thing - if I posted on a mustang forum and said that the car needed a little more of xyz to make it more balanced (and others had already agreed to some sort of deficiency in the same area), people would jump on the wagon because what can it hurt? Do you not want a faster car? :)

Take care peoples

What about the bias inherent in the following of a car for several months or years? Certainly many people invested a lot of time and energy on this board. Furthermore, there is something to be said about the bias that naturally develops to prevent someone form admitting they were wrong (i.e. "folks I spent thousands of hours on this board and it was a total waste of time since this car did not live up to my expectations").Point taken, there are days (well, minutes at least) when I think "why the heck do I need this fuel eating monster as my daily ride - wouldn't it be smart to do something else with the money?" Yeah, of course there are moments of doubt, like there are with my girl, my job and my life in general.

But every single time, the car answers the question.

This car makes me feel good and made everyone else who traveled in it feel so far - there's nothing more important I would expect for my money. I'd like to see a slightly (more) solid feel and improved mpg, besides that, the car still gets better every day.

^^ thats what its all about

Agreed.. Believe me, I hated bring it up so many times, just about as much as you hated reading it. :) I simply felt that my opinion was not sinking in for some people.

Me: This ball is round. (holding baseball)
Loyalist: that ball is square
Me: If it looks square to you, then fine....but its round...

:)

Ill tell you one thing - if I posted on a mustang forum and said that the car needed a little more of xyz to make it more balanced (and others had already agreed to some sort of deficiency in the same area), people would jump on the wagon because what can it hurt? Do you not want a faster car? :)

Take care peoples
Bah, I have to pipe up again even though I said this before. Your analogy is wrong. Because you're not just saying a truth and people aren't just denying that truth. You're spitting out a truth and then overloading it with extreme statements. People agree with the basic principle of what you said but disagree with your statements.

Do I think the 8 can use more power? Of course. Do I think it can match a lot of its competitors in torque and umph? Nope. So we're in full agreement there. I've seen that mentioned a lot on this forum and in most reviews. The 8 is just not torquey.

Now what do I disagree with? The 626 comment. The Mustang cornering and braking better than the 8 CAN be true, but you said it in a way that makes it sound like the 8 sucks vs that your Mustang is awesome. There's a difference in that. Like if I said "that girl is even uglier than my girlfriend" vs "my girlfriend is hotter than her". I think most people are taking it as "c'mon the 8's cornering and braking is even worse than my Mustang". Reviews and my personal experience tell me that the cornering and braking on the 8 are very very good. If your Mustang corners and brakes better than the 8 it's because your Mustang is INCREDIBLE not because the 8 has flaws.

So yeah...
* Needs more torque (tho I am happy as is, but I'd take more torque, hp any day)
* It's still a fast car. Near tops in twisties, weak in straight aways.
* Corners and brakes very well.

That's all.

Thats the way I meant it. I have done a lot of work to my car to make it perform the way it does... but at the same time, I thought I was giving compliments to the 8 in saying that my mustang would beat the hell out of me the whole time.. Basically saying that my car is imbalanced too - it has raw hp and performance but lacks manners. The rx8 has the potential of being a well balanced car (taking this from the general agreement that it could use more power) - I know some are happy the way it is, thats nice for them...

you may have your opinion, but i'll give you my reasons for buying the rx-8 one week ago today. 1. rear wheel drive and 2. a six speed. if i want speed or handling, i'll kick a leg over either one of my two yamaha r1's. this car was bought for fun driving and it has surpassed my desire every time i've driven it.

yamajj :cool:

you know i was thinking the same thing but im glad you said it:) everyone has been actually fairly nice up until the ahole comment there wasnt any name calling at all. peopel have been(are;)) much nastier with you.

Yeah, and I never even said the Mustang or 626 stuff, I just said the 8 felt a little underpowered and that there was no way it was making 247hp... Good thing I was way off base there :p

Now we just need the goober the old STi thread bumped and we can really have some fun with the new guys ;)

This thread has gotten way out of hand. Closing.