Thought I'd share my results from tonight with my fellow RX8 owners... :rock:

My current setup consists of the Interceptor X EMS, Greddy Turbo, External Tial 46 Wastegate, Unorthodox Pulleys, 3 inch catless midpipe, Fujitsubo exhaust, PWR radiator and Innovative wideband 02 (XD1).

I was previousy running the emanage with my setup with a few of the fixes from the local board gurus like the wastegate signal to the turbo outlet. (Mazdamanaic, Mad Dog..Thanks guys). I had the car tuned last August with decent results but still had tons of driveability issues. Very choppy transition into boost, occasional lean spot in my AFR when going into boost, car would stall sometimes, serious backfire that sounded like gunshots, a funny spot around 4000 rpm that when in boost would cause the car to buck tremendously until 6000rpm and a WEALTH of other problems that made me want to give up this car..and focus on working on my fiancee's WRX instead. Plain and simple engine management was a big issue.
:mad:

I read great reviews on the Interceptor and decided to give it a shot... I even had Scott fly in frisom Florida to Toronto (CANADA) to come and install the unit and tune the car. All I can say WOW!!!! Every driveability issue I had with the car before is gone. No more backfire, no more stalling, no more choppy transition into boost and a rock solid 11.5-11.8 AFR. The car feels as smooth as N/A but with power I never knew could be there. I'm still in disbelief. I am STILL GRINNING ear to ear after my drive home. :mdrmed:

We ended up with 310 WHP and 252 WTQ with a wicked low end pickup. I'm running 275/30/19's in the rear... and the car is sliding everywhere from the torque. Time to go STI hunting.. :ylsuper:

Check out the dyno ! The first run (red) was with the Interceptor stock base map and no tuning.... and the final run (blue) was after we've finished tuning.

congrats finally greddy turbo that cracked 300whp.

Power still peaks early - around 7k?
Also, just to clarify, the gain from 267 to 310 HP was going from 7psi to 13psi?

The key to making the GReddy kill 300HP is to hold boost longer. So, what does your boost curve look like now? From the power peak, its looks like you're still loosing at least some boost with increasing RPM. What was the boost at the peak power point?

Wow thats crazy, congrats on the results!

wow, a 310 rwhp rx8 must be a lot of fun!!!

Awesome.

you know 300 hp to the crank is good, but 300whp is supa crazy @ss stuff.

Dang! I bet thats fun! Congrats man and good job scott!

That's amazing. It must be one hell of a car to drive.

It peaks too early I think.

Hmm, but still ... sweetttt..... 310rwhp ... yumm .....

Congrats Bro!!

Bad ass!

Lookin' Good!!

-hS

it peaks to way to early, very nice though congrats man 300whp rx8 should be loads of fun!

Now just replace the shitty turbo from the Greddy kit with a good one and you'll be all set.

Oh my god, you created a monster

Now just replace the shitty turbo from the Greddy kit with a good one and you'll be all set.And how do you propose on doing that? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You probably don't know where the greddy turbo is mounted, you don't know what size turbo can fit down there. You probably don't know why a bigger turbo will help because than you'ld know there's other ways to solve the issues at hand.

RRRRR, sorry for ranting, but you're an idiot.

EDIT: Oh, and you also probably don't know the real world benefits to having the smaller and "shittier" turbo from greddy.

-hS

And how do you propose on doing that? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You probably don't know where the greddy turbo is mounted, you don't know what size turbo can fit down there. You probably don't know why a bigger turbo will help because than you'ld know there's other ways to solve the issues at hand.

RRRRR, sorry for ranting, but you're an idiot.

EDIT: Oh, and you also probably don't know the real world benefits to having the smaller and "shittier" turbo from greddy.

-hS

wow,
said well.

btw, great job scott. hope you got to relax a bit while you were up there.

beers :beer:

:rofl:

Is it over? Can I look now?

http://www.raceworx.com/imabandwidththief/buckle%20up%20thread.gif

And how do you propose on doing that? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You probably don't know where the greddy turbo is mounted, you don't know what size turbo can fit down there. You probably don't know why a bigger turbo will help because than you'ld know there's other ways to solve the issues at hand.

RRRRR, sorry for ranting, but you're an idiot.

EDIT: Oh, and you also probably don't know the real world benefits to having the smaller and "shittier" turbo from greddy.

-hS

Damn, Very nice.
I wonder how much that external wastegate helped out. I'm very interested in what your boost curve looks like.

RRRR, cr@p. I should of just let it go. I don't want to steal from Hybrid-RX8s thunder. His gains today are a great milestone for our community here.

And how reliable it is

wow....a 310whp rx-8.....sounds nice dont it
:Eyecrazy:

just as i thought, just give the 8 time and this is what happens....

umMm do i have to be the first to ask..
what 1/4mile do you see at 310whp?...

RRRR, cr@p. I should of just let it go. I don't want to steal from Hybrid-RX8s thunder. His gains today are a great milestone for our community here.

you did not piss on this thread dubb did. you just said what everyone was thinking, you are free and clear.


beers :beer:

Wow...nice, I'm still weary of Turbo's long term effect on the Renesis (also since I don't have any turbo experiance) but 300whp is all I'd ever want out of the RX8.

Now...get to a track and report back your times.

-wrong thread-

either i'm going crazy, or there is something seriously wrong with that dyno graph
If your wondering why the hp/tq doesn't cross at 5250rpm, it's because the values are not matched up on both sides.

Can you record a datalog of your boost curve with your Interceptor and post a copy of it? We're dieing to see how that external wastegate affected things.

Awesome results though!

adrian didnt you replace the greddy turbo with a bigger one ???

jesus, Scott gets one day with your car and hits 310whp!


hahahaa...all I can say is my car is next the mazsport queue!

You had Scott fly to Toronto to tune your car? That's insane! :Eyecrazy:

It's amazing what cold Toronto air will do providing you get enough fuel to it!!

So how much did this whole thing cost?

Thought I'd share my results from tonight with my fellow RX8 owners... :rock:
Time to go STI hunting.. :ylsuper:
I posted in another thread, that once the Renesis gets properly boosted in mass numbers, and we get them all tuned right, all the other car forums will suddendly change their attitude about the RX8 and it's capibilities. My hat's off to Scott for another sound tune job.
:worship:

The problem with that statement is their cars are slightly better performers from the factory, whereas we have to spend a fair amount of money to overtake them. My $0.02.

I know, but at least we can give them a run at the track now :)

A run?

All you need is about 280 to the wheels to beat them in a straight line! :ylsuper:

Have you Dyno'd your car yet MadDog? or maybe done a 1/4 mile run? I'm curious. :P

Scott's the freakin' man! Now if I could just find a free weekend...

good job Scott!

Have you Dyno'd your car yet MadDog? or maybe done a 1/4 mile run? I'm curious. :P


I've been tempted to go get dyno'd, but I haven't done it yet. I want to get an exhaust first. I'd like to do a before and after, but at $65 just to strap it down, I'm starting to loose my willingness to do experiments!

I can tell you this though. I can beat stock STi's by a length in something close to a quarter mile and I think the stock STi is in the low 13's. I run wheel-to-wheel with a slightly modded (catless) STi.

I definitely go to the dyno after installing the exhaust in a week or two. I want to know, too!

You have an all OEM exhaust at the moment?

MadDog, which exhaust are you going for?

Yeah, I still have the OEM exhaust. I've been eyeballing the TurboXS exhaust, of course. But at a grand, that's pretty steep. There's a guy here in town that will fab a custom 3" exhaust for about $350. I'm thinking of going that route. I mean, for the cost of just the TurboXS midpipe, I 'll have the entire thing. I'm willing to bet that most (>85%)of the gains from the TurboXS setup come from stripping the cat and the 3" tubing - not anything to do with the quality of the Y joint or the mufflers. So the cost savings will more than outweigh the couple of HP that this guys custom jobber might lack.

cool

And how do you propose on doing that? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You probably don't know where the greddy turbo is mounted, you don't know what size turbo can fit down there. You probably don't know why a bigger turbo will help because than you'ld know there's other ways to solve the issues at hand.

RRRRR, sorry for ranting, but you're an idiot.

EDIT: Oh, and you also probably don't know the real world benefits to having the smaller and "shittier" turbo from greddy.

-hS

The greddy turbo is too small ( for big gains on the topend ). fact. it's cfm above 7500 rpm is too low. it may handle 20psi at lower rpm ranges but it isn't flowing enough air at higher rpm ranges ( it works fine on a skyline or other car where this isn't a problem ). the pressure is irrelevant, it's the amount or air that the car needs. if you want more power you are going to have to move the turbo ( not enough size in the "greddy position down low") do your own manifold.. and get a bigger turbo.

Bullseye actually makes a new compressor housing for the greddy turbo that keeps the same hot side and mates it with a t04b compressor wheel, that fits in the current location;

I'am glad to see the power is getting up there, mine is 284whp with the Greddy. But like your graph my boost falls off too at around 6500.

What I'am hearing is that it's not the Greddy turbo so much as they believe the intake on the engine can't flow enough. I hear there will be testing to compare the same turbo on a
13b, all things being equal..

I hope this does not prove true. Unless someone makes a new intake manifold at a decent
price... Maybe it would be nice so we can have a nice polished intake... We'll anyways that
what I hear...

The greddy turbo is too small ( for big gains on the topend ). fact. it's cfm above 7500 rpm is too low. it may handle 20psi at lower rpm ranges but it isn't flowing enough air at higher rpm ranges

Depends on what the user wants, it sounds like this turbo is well matched to this engine for low-end response which is what the engine needs the most

how soon do you get boost? I'd like to see a boost curve

they believe the intake on the engine can't flow enough

I call BS,

the Renesis has the largest intake ports on any rotary ever. They're about the same size as a LARGE street port on an older 13B. Unless Mazda designed the runners small to keep high intake velocity, but then the engine would've had smaller ports.

What I'am hearing is that it's not the Greddy turbo so much as they believe the intake on the engine can't flow enough. I hear there will be testing to compare the same turbo on a
13b, all things being equal..

I hope this does not prove true. Unless someone makes a new intake manifold at a decent
price... Maybe it would be nice so we can have a nice polished intake... We'll anyways that
what I hear...

Whoever is saying this has no idea what they are talking about. The Renesis can easily flow as much as a 13B. It had better. It has bigger ports and a better intake manifold! I wouldn't worry too much about this being true.

The turbo is too small to do much more. Scott is doing a great job of getting every last little bit out of it but it's just not capable of much more. Don't get too concerned about the rpm's as much. Think about it this way, would you rather have a 310hp engine where the power peaks at 7000 rpm or would you rather have a 310hp engine that has it's power peal at 9000 rpm? I know that people would rather have the same power curve but have it keep going up past 7000 rpm but from these 2 options I'd rather have a 7000 rpm redline. It is less stress on the engine than a higher redline.

Someone will need to install a nicer larger turbo to get more power and have a higher rpm range but for what this one is designed for, it's pretty good. It may be hard to get a different turbo down in the same spot. It should be possible to do a slight compressor upgrade in the same location but I seriously doubt it would be a huge gain. You will really need to move the turbo to a different location with more room so you can fit a larger one. The turbo manifold is a pretty big compromise from a design aspect in this location anyways.

Just be happy that it cracked the 300rwhp mark. We are slowly seeing the power on these engines go up which keep proving those people wrong who say it can't be boosted without blowing up. It's all in the tuning as has been proven.

Who will be the first to 325? 350? 375? 400? We'll find out yet...

Hey Rotarygod, you might be right , but don't say " these guys don't know what their talking about....

Because these guys are from down under and have a tremendous amount of knowledge
about rotaries.... But I still hope your right..

back to the original theme of this thread for a moment, congrats on a fantastic job! very, very impressive. now go enjoy that ride!

dd sends...

Hey Rotarygod, you might be right , but don't say " these guys don't know what their talking about....

Because these guys are from down under and have a tremendous amount of knowledge
about rotaries.... But I still hope your right..
well... ptp it something like 360+ hp...
310 sounds scary :Eyecrazy:
:ylsuper:

so someone help me do the math. how much power loss do you think is from the wheels to the crank? if 25% then he's at 413.33hp to the crank. If 20% then he's at 387.5hp to the crank.

so someone help me do the math. how much power loss do you think is from the wheels to the crank? if 25% then he's at 413.33hp to the crank. If 20% then he's at 387.5hp to the crank.neither...but you're opening a whole can of worms that this thread doesn't need to see

BTW i got first dibs on 400whp..then everyone else can have it :ylsuper:

neither...but you're opening a whole can of worms that this thread doesn't need to see

BTW i got first dibs on 400whp..then everyone else can have it :ylsuper:


duh,
i just tought of this, are you doing scotts kit??????

beers :beer:

[QUOTE=epitrochoid]neither...but you're opening a whole can of worms that this thread doesn't need to see

how so?

No more backfire, no more stalling, no more choppy transition into boost and a rock solid 11.5-11.8 AFR.



Personally I would tune for a lower A/F ratio since this is a street car. Your really asking for trouble running close to 12.0 A/F ratios with pump gas on a boosted rotary at around 15psi. Tuning to the ragged edges does nothing for long term reliability. With the turbo running out of it's efficiency range, all it's doing is heating up the air and will increase the chances of detonation. Your not going to have any margin for error in a slightly lean situation with your current A/F ratio. Remember, a perfect tune can't always be relied upon when something else goes wrong. Example fuel injectors don't always spray perfect forever and not all fuel is the same. This is exactly why the FD was tuned to a A/F ratio of 10.0 and one of the reasons why my orginal Fd engine has over 100k and still runs perfect. Now I'm not suggesting you re-tune that rich, but I am suggesting you leave some more room for error. I'm tired of seeing our engines blow for stupid reasons.

T-von,
I agree, but Hybrid-RX8 may have several different maps he's flipping through. The interceptor can store up to 4 different maps. This map may not be what he uses for normal driving.
Or this might be his daily driving map.. and i'm totally wrong.

From talking to the person who originally tuned my e-manage. The Renesis seems to be able to handle a slightly leaner map than the 13b. Why is that? i'm not sure... and i can't speak for him. Then again i don't think any of our boosted owners here have hit high mileage on our cars yet. I guess time will tell if its possible or not.

-hS

Great numbers!!!

What octane were you running to get 310 WHP?

Also, are you using the stock injectors? If not, what is your fuel config?

Thanks!

congrats on the numbers !

The Renesis seems to be able to handle a slightly leaner map than the 13b. Why is that? i'm not sure...
-hS


From my understanding the zero overlap and less dilution of the intake is that reason. But still, why take that chance just for a few more ponies? Personally I wouldn't have any problem loosing say 20 hp with a higher A/F ratio if it saved me my engine over the long run. 20hp isn't worth a few grand for a rebuild IMHO.

It may be hard to get a different turbo down in the same spot.

Uh, I managed to get a T3/T4 into that spot without too much difficulty...

The greddy turbo is too small ( for big gains on the topend ). fact. it's cfm above 7500 rpm is too low.

It flows plenty. The TD04-18G (similar, but SMALLER turbo) can flow way more than the 400+ CFM the Renesis ingests at WOT and 9 PSI.

great job on getting 309 WHP from your greddy. when i think about it, you get 200WHP at 3500RPM. i still prefer the smooth transtion of power from my na rotary to any other set ups.

From my understanding the zero overlap and less dilution of the intake is that reason. But still, why take that chance just for a few more ponies? Personally I wouldn't have any problem loosing say 20 hp with a higher A/F ratio if it saved me my engine over the long run. 20hp isn't worth a few grand for a rebuild IMHO.
Well, i would agree.. but i wouldn't go with a blanket map that is just pig rich. There is such a thing as being too rich and the severe problems that can come from it. Many horror stories in that world that I won't get into (not from me personally).

Still... it is possible Hybrid-RX8 has a different map that he uses for daily driving.

-hS

Wow. 5 pages later and Hybrid hasn't posted a single response to our questions....

I wonder what's up. Hope all is well...

hey guys..............everything is SPECTACULAR.... I've just been swamped at work.......... I'm going to try to get a video together for this weekend...

I'm going to try to get to some of your questions tonight...!!

Wow. 5 pages later and Hybrid hasn't posted a single response to our questions....

I wonder what's up. Hope all is well...

Even though he said he has been busy with work, I know that if it was my car I would be out burning tons of gas having fun with that kinda power.

Congrats Hybrid, have fun with that monster.

so someone help me do the math. how much power loss do you think is from the wheels to the crank? if 25% then he's at 413.33hp to the crank. If 20% then he's at 387.5hp to the crank.

<15% ( realistically it's closer to 10-12 % for a rear wheel drive car ). It's just not possible to loose that much power and not have something melt/break from the heat. ( the energy has to go somewhere... )

hey guys..............everything is SPECTACULAR.... I've just been swamped at work.......... I'm going to try to get a video together for this weekend...

I'm going to try to get to some of your questions tonight...!!

If you don't mind me asking, approx how much $$$ did this cost (in CDN :) Is it in the 5 - 7k range ??

Brice... I'm still ripping it on the way to work in the back streets... talk about short spurts of FUN!!!

Aseras... it should really be about 15%-17% loss from the crank to the wheels... power loss is not from heat but from the drivetrain..

I really have to give the kudos to Scott ... with his tuning ability and with his engine management system. I really think the key to this car hitting the power it did and having the driveability it has now (exactly like stock ... with loads of power :bowdown: ) was a result of installing ther Interceptor. Also, a big change beyond the 310 whp is the 252wtq! I've actually got wicked low end power now...

With the emanage, I was lucky to break 190 tq at a higher RPM even fully tuned. I had asked Scott why this was and he had explained to me it was the Interceptor's ability to control the variable intake. Maybe when he gets back to Florida he can chime in and explain the technicalities on how his EMS does this. Hell, I'm just a driver finally enjoying his car. :wiggle:

I've been tempted to go get dyno'd, but I haven't done it yet. I want to get an exhaust first. I'd like to do a before and after, but at $65 just to strap it down, I'm starting to loose my willingness to do experiments!

I can tell you this though. I can beat stock STi's by a length in something close to a quarter mile and I think the stock STi is in the low 13's. I run wheel-to-wheel with a slightly modded (catless) STi.

I definitely go to the dyno after installing the exhaust in a week or two. I want to know, too!
Yeah, you need to dyno! bragging rights for the Greddy/Emanage people! :bowdown: :wiggle: Low 13's on the street.... thats all I need... I just wanna surprise all these hillbillies around here :evil_laug :naughty:
Nice numbers by the way!! congrats! hmm... Emanage or Interceptor-x!? :squint: :wallbash:

Mad Dog... I was able to hold boost until about 7500 rpm and it would start falling off to about 8 psi if I remember correct...

The internal wastegate on the Greddy T618Z turbo does suck but at the same time the turbo isn't capable of flow in the higher RPMS.

So you have 13psi at 7500 and 8psi at redline? Not too shabby....
That alone is giving a huge increase in power.

It flows plenty. The TD04-18G (similar, but SMALLER turbo) can flow way more than the 400+ CFM the Renesis ingests at WOT and 9 PSI.

Here we go.. rpm,CFM chart... ( NA ) Figures sea level, 40C air...

6000 6250 6500 6750 7000 7250 7500 7750 8000 8250 8500 8750 9000 9250
272 284 295 306 318 329 340 352 363 374 386 397 408 420


I hate to tell you but it's pulling more than 400 cfm NA.. if my numbers are right...

Oh just to let you guys know... these numbers were pulled at about 600 ft above sea level here in Toronto.............so i'm sure being somewhere with a lower elevation would yield greater numbers..

Uh, I managed to get a T3/T4 into that spot without too much difficulty...


Which is also a fairly small turbo. That's what it takes to fit down there. It was a tight fit if I remember correctly. The point was that no one is going to get a 60-1 or a T66 or other fairly large high power turbo down there. It'll have to move somewhere else.

Hey Rotarygod, you might be right , but don't say " these guys don't know what their talking about....

Because these guys are from down under and have a tremendous amount of knowledge
about rotaries.... But I still hope your right..
Where they are from has nothing to do with it. Alot of people also assume that tuners in Japan must miraclulously know more and again that isn't true. People imply that the US must know nothing about rotaries. Location vs rotary knowledge is a stereotype. If someone says the Renesis intake can't flow enough, they simply don't know what they are talking about. The Renesis has the largest intake ports and the best intake manifold of any rotary to date. Saying it doesn't is wrong. Where they are from is irrelevant.

Personally I would tune for a lower A/F ratio since this is a street car. Your really asking for trouble running close to 12.0 A/F ratios with pump gas on a boosted rotary at around 15psi. Tuning to the ragged edges does nothing for long term reliability. With the turbo running out of it's efficiency range, all it's doing is heating up the air and will increase the chances of detonation. Your not going to have any margin for error in a slightly lean situation with your current A/F ratio. Remember, a perfect tune can't always be relied upon when something else goes wrong. Example fuel injectors don't always spray perfect forever and not all fuel is the same. This is exactly why the FD was tuned to a A/F ratio of 10.0 and one of the reasons why my orginal Fd engine has over 100k and still runs perfect. Now I'm not suggesting you re-tune that rich, but I am suggesting you leave some more room for error. I'm tired of seeing our engines blow for stupid reasons.

To say that a certain a/f ratio is dangerous is a misconception. You can't say with any certainty that any a/f ratio is safe or not without knowing how the ignition timing is done at that point. I see people on the 7forum ask what a safe a/f ratio is and people actually anwser it. This is dangerous. A 12:1 a/f ratio with the proper corresponding ignition timing is safer than an engine running at 10:1 with too much advance. Guess which one will blow up first! Alot of people assume that running rich is the most important thing but that's only half of it. If it is tuned in the 12:1 range, a safe margin of error would be to retard the ignition a couple of degrees from the "ragged edge". This is no different than with running a rich a/f ratio with some timing retard. It's all the same thing. It's all the same thing. The difference is that the car running the richer a/f is probably running more total advance. There's more than 1 way to do it.

nice numbers.... well done

I hate to tell you but it's pulling more than 400 cfm NA.. if my numbers are right...


which is what MM said



the 400+ CFM the Renesis ingests at WOT and 9 PSI.

see 400+? where's the disagreement?

Congrats! Hybrid, are you running stock injectors and fuel pump?

To say that a certain a/f ratio is dangerous is a misconception. You can't say with any certainty that any a/f ratio is safe or not without knowing how the ignition timing is done at that point.

Very true but all things egual with perfect timing the engine that is richer will have more of a safety cushion in a lean condition since more fuel takes longer to burn.

see 400+? where's the disagreement?I think he means WAY more than 400 CFM.
I believe he is using the standard CFM = CID x RPM x VE ÷ 3456 formula, but using a VE of 100% and double the true displacement - both of which are mistakes.

Which is also a fairly small turbo (#). That's what it takes to fit down there. It was a tight fit if I remember correctly. The point was that no one is going to get a 60-1 or a T66 or other fairly large high power turbo down there. It'll have to move somewhere else.RG, do you think it could be possible to fit a 60-1 or maybe even a t66 if you pushed it a farther back. I dont know if you are know how the APS turbo kits ( http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/350z/g35/it_system.htm ) and the speed force racing kits for the 350z and g35. ( http://www.speedforceracing.com/images/products/infinity/g35/turbokit/g35_1_2.jpg ) Both of those seem to have the turbos farther back and dare i say, nearly out of the engine bay. I dont know how much room there is under the car in that area. Would it be possible to push the turbo back and possibly put a bigger turbo in there.

The best way to install a turbo that large would be to do it in front of the engine like the PTP or SSR kits.

I think he means WAY more than 400 CFM.
I believe he is using the standard CFM = CID x RPM x VE ÷ 3456 formula, but using a VE of 100% and double the true displacement - both of which are mistakes.

I used 40 CID per rotor 2 rotors 3 face per rotor for a total 240 CID.

for say 6000 rpm we get 240 CID x (6000 rpm)x 1/3)/1728 = 277 CFM

I used a 98% throttle position as well so my numbers I posted are a bit lower than a 100% WOT.

Thats what i thought but it was an idea.

RG, do you think it could be possible to fit a 60-1 or maybe even a t66 if you pushed it a farther back. I dont know if you are know how the APS turbo kits ( http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/350z/g35/it_system.htm ) and the speed force racing kits for the 350z and g35. ( http://www.speedforceracing.com/images/products/infinity/g35/turbokit/g35_1_2.jpg ) Both of those seem to have the turbos farther back and dare i say, nearly out of the engine bay. I dont know how much room there is under the car in that area. Would it be possible to push the turbo back and possibly put a bigger turbo in there.

if you got the time and equipment or the wallet you can do whatever you want.

neither...but you're opening a whole can of worms that this thread doesn't need to see how so?There was a thread about the Interceptor-X NA I believe that turned into this huge arguement about drivetrain losses. As someone already mentioned it's somewhere to the order of 12-15%, but no one has put a Renesis on a engine dyno and published the results. Racing Beat's done it, but they're under strict agreements with Mazda to not oublish the obtained numbers. I'll give you 3 guesses as to why...

duh,
i just tought of this, are you doing scotts kit??????

beers :beer:No, I had already ordered the Greddy kit weeks before I heard about Scotts creation. Plus it would have increased the overall cost, and I would have had to have waited longer. I definately plan to go that route sooner than later though.

I used 40 CID per rotor 2 rotors 3 face per rotor for a total 240 CID.

for say 6000 rpm we get 240 CID x (6000 rpm)x 1/3)/1728 = 277 CFM

I used a 98% throttle position as well so my numbers I posted are a bit lower than a 100% WOT.OK. That is all wrong.
Two rotor faces go by per RPM. 80 CID per RPM.
Use WOT - there is no way to calculate for anything less.
Assume a VE of 80% for N/A operation and 100% for FI.

OK. That is all wrong.
Two rotor faces go by per RPM. 80 CID per RPM.
Use WOT - there is no way to calculate for anything less.
Assume a VE of 80% for N/A operation and 100% for FI.

nope I'm just gonna cut and paste this...

There is some disagreement about how to calculate airflow for a rotor. It appears to me that each the three faces of the rotor sweep the chamber area during one revolution of the rotor. If each face is consider a piston then it is similar to a 3 piston 2 cycle engine. In thr rotor case, all three pistons use the same cylinder rather than having a separate cylinder. If you accept this hypothesis then:

For a 2 cycle 6piston engine (equivalent to two rotors)
40CID x6(pistons)=240CID Displacement. Then for a 2 cycle engine at 2000 (rotor actual rotation speed at 6000 rpm eccentric shaft) rpm this becomes CIDxRPM/1728=CFM of airflow or 40CID x 6(pistons) x 2000 (rpm)/1728 = 277 CFM for a six cylinder (40 CID each) 2 cycle engine

Now for applying this hypothesis to the rotor motor.
40 (CID of one rotor) x 3 (faces)=120 CID displacement for one revolution.
Therefore, for two rotors this becomes
(40CID)X2(Number rotors)x3(faces)=240CID per revolution

The rotors turn at 1/3 the Eccentric shaft speed, from which:
(240 CID x (6000 rpm)x 1/3)/1728 (conversion factor) = 277 CFM which is close to what a 13B draws at 6000 rpm.

If you take the 80CID displacement give for the 13B and knowing the rotors turn at 1/3 the speed of the eccentric shaft, then at 6000 RPM for eccentric shaft the rotor turns 2000 rpm. If you try 80CID X 2000 RPM/1728= 92 CFM which is clearly far below what the rotor flows at 6000 rpm.

Therefore, if the hypothesis of a rotor sweeping 3 times its volume in one revolution is incorrect (and it may be), I have no idea of the magic the rotor uses to get the airflow it does.

You are confusing power creation (combustion) with total swept volume (pumping).
All we care about is how much air is taken in per shaft revolution.
Every time a piston motor turns, half of its pistons have open valves. This is true and is a particular idosyncracy of a 4-stroke piston engine (that it only ingests 1/2 of its volume per rev).
However, a rotary motor has two swept rotor areas pass the intake ports per revolution.
That is all that is need to know for intake volume. It matters not that this can occur continuously - we only calculate per rev.
80 CID of swept volume pass the intake ports per rev. That is .046 cubic feet, assuming 100% VE.
9200 RPM would yield 338 ft^3 per minute at 80% VE.

In any event, the conclusion in the logic above is wrong.

Awesome Hybrid! Looking forward to seeing your setup at the April meet!

Jeff is correct in that the effective volume is ~80in^3, for both rotors. But, I'm not so sure about the NA VE of 80% though. I looked at some scanalyzer graphs posted by Hymme that show the g/min of air that pass the Maf, this showed a VE in the high 90's from 5500 to 8500 rpms.

Based on my calculations I found the max airflow for an NA Renesis to be around 350cfm at 90% VE. The max airflow for a Renesis at 9psi, with: 78% compressor efficiency, 80% intercooler efficiency, 70deg ambient temp, 0.7psi suction loss, 14psi ambient pressure, 8500rpm, and 100% VE would then be around 618cfm. Above 8500rpm, VE decreases faster than revs increase. Airflow decreases to 589cfm at 9000.

The OEM MAF maxes out at 600 CFM.
Even under full 9 PSI boost at 9200 RPM you are still not maxed out on the OEM MAF.

The effective volume is 80 in^3, not 160 in^3.

The effective volume is 80 in^3, not 160 in^3.

Woops, brain fart, you're right. I've corrected it now.

Thanks for all the positive comments guys, I must say the support of the club does help my efforts. Here is the Breakdown:
The fuel was 94, the boost was 13psi and the air temp according to the dynojet was ~55f. The Interceptor-X has complete control of all 6 injectors and I have reached the limits of the factory fuel system. I do not believe I can get anymore power out of this turbo kit without switching to at least 100 unleaded as some other members run. This of course would allow more timing, more boost and a leaner mixture but at $5 a gallon to run "high boost" most would rather not. Damons ride is very,very nice and quite fast as well :evil_laug B.T.W. For those of you who want more power than this you might want to wait just abit longer ;)

OH! Spill it scott!

Hey scott, what are you talking about. You know I always run 100 octane.. I call you Thursday, we'll talk. rich....

is scott the master of suspense or what? hahaha! can't wait to hear what you've got in the works. pm me or give me a call, if you'd like.

dd sends...

Let's see... a Rotary Turbo tuner who has mastered the EMS for the 8. Must be a BIG turbo coming...

:bowdown:

I sure hope so!

I don't want big...I just want 300 at the wheels :D: And I want it reliably with a fast spoolup and no lag :D: That level would be a blast to drive...and should still be driveable without having to worry about frying anything.

Scott........get it done already.

I don't want big...I just want 300 at the wheels :D: And I want it reliably with a fast spoolup and no lag :D: That level would be a blast to drive...and should still be driveable without having to worry about frying anything.

Scott........get it done already.

Your joking, right :icon5: :icon5: :icon5: Did you even read the thread title?

Your joking, right :icon5: :icon5: :icon5: Did you even read the thread title?My point exactly! Yeah you can already have that... now scott, i hope you have some big horsepower up your sleeve! :fingersx:

Oh how sarcasm is lost on the masses :D: If I meant it I would have left out the smiley.

Bye the way....reliability is still an unknown....so do we already have it??

B.T.W. For those of you who want more power than this you might want to wait just abit longer ;)and, i know what he's talking about... but i've been sworn to secrecy :X

So in the meantime, i must dance the night away...
:bluesuit:

So what are the chances of your engine blowing up? Help a noob out.

If it is tuned well, very slim.

and, i know what he's talking about... but i've been sworn to secrecy :X

So in the meantime, i must dance the night away...
:bluesuit:
:sadwavey: I wanna know too!

At what RPM does the boost come on? If the turbo is spooling when cruising at highway speeds (3500 - 4000 RPM), does it affect reliability or cause overheating?

I'm very excited by the leaps we're making in technology, I just want someone to pat me on the back and say it'll be allright before I void my warranty :Freak_ani

Dam what does MazsportScott have up his sleeve ????????

Call Scott :D: He's not keeping it that secret...I'm sure if your serious he would like to know that your interested....

Damn that power curve drops real quick after 7000 rpm..
You need a bigger turbo now!!!!
Nice power out of the small greddy unit!

Wanted to share some pics.. I should have a video soon of the dyno..and I'll get a video of my driving the car on the road

Thats the R-Magic kit! :rock:

That's RIGHT!! I bought this front end about 1.5-2 years ago. I got right it after I bought the car in December 04.

Sweet looking car - can't wait to see a video

Holy crap!! I love the r-magic kit!!
That's the kit I was looking to buy when I had 8.
Great looking car! mad props!!

Let's get a clear shot at your rims! They look nice too. Looks like one of the best setups I've seen for this cars...if not the best. This in my own opinion.

Yep, its a beaut ;)

Car looks awesome.. but you drive that to work?

-hS

pretty and fast..actually pretty fast

you're lucky to have access to clean 94 octane up there...even in FL, the best I can readily find is 93

That car looks lower than it is in real life... I use the car as daily driver minus our hard winters up here.

I'm going to be installing a new clutch and flywheel shortly.. this is just to much power for the stock clutch :rock:

I have a question for you.
310whp out of the greddy turbo is a such nice number and no one expected it.
That is quite an acheivement, but it is working out of its efficiency range.
What was your boost level when you dynoed it?
And I assume it was on the dynojet uncorrected?

Either way, the turbo is blowing hot ass air!!!
Are you planning to keep the greddy turbo for a long time?

Congrats on the 310hp

I have a question for you.
310whp out of the greddy turbo is a such nice number and no one expected it.
That is quite an acheivement, but it is working out of its efficiency range.
What was your boost level when you dynoed it?
And I assume it was on the dynojet uncorrected?

Either way, the turbo is blowing hot ass air!!!
Are you planning to keep the greddy turbo for a long time?
Thanks for your compliment. The Interceptors data logger was showing 13psi and the correction factor was set to "standard" Uncorrected it was 314rwhp.

Thanks for your compliment. The Interceptors data logger was showing 13psi and the correction factor was set to "standard" Uncorrected it was 314rwhp.

that's nice. damn, his car is almost as fast as mine!! :ylsuper:

Either way, the turbo is blowing hot ass air!!!
Are you planning to keep the greddy turbo for a long time?
Have you looked at the compressor map?

At 13 PSI, the turbo is just starting to go outside its 75% efficiency region.
That is the end of its effective range, but still not in the "hot ass" range.

i love it haha

pretty and fast..actually pretty fast

you're lucky to have access to clean 94 octane up there...even in FL, the best I can readily find is 93

Man, are you kidding. I wish. In Los Angeles it is 91 octane at that high end.

At 13 PSI, the turbo is just starting to go outside its 75% efficiency region.

I believe it was Manuel that said that he was running his Greddy turbo at around 12-13 psi. At 14+ psi it became a big heat unit.

Have you looked at the compressor map?

At 13 PSI, the turbo is just starting to go outside its 75% efficiency region.
That is the end of its effective range, but still not in the "hot ass" range.


what compressor map? I could never get Greddy to give it up. Post it if you have it please.

I think they are referring to the compressor map of the very similar 18g.

I think they are referring to the compressor map of the very similar 18g.
Correct. The Greddy turbo is an 18g cold side hooked up to a TD06 hot side.

Have you looked at the compressor map?

At 13 PSI, the turbo is just starting to go outside its 75% efficiency region.
That is the end of its effective range, but still not in the "hot ass" range.


13psi at what flow? Does that match the ren's flow at that speed?

that's nice. damn, his car is almost as fast as mine!! :ylsuper:
I'm curious, how fast is your car?

Let's see some more pictures of your car.

its an EVO, he's posted dynos in the other sub forums before

-hS

^???

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=83776

an EVO :gotrice:

Hes referring to the how fast is your car comment

an EVO :gotrice:blah... i don't even want to get pulled into this.

Nice results hybrid !! Let's hope you are still happy in two years when my lease is up. If you are, then I may have to reconsider getting rid of the 8 for a more powerful car. Good luck and enjoy the new power.

an EVO :gotrice:

hm..another one...
then this is what I got for you.

an Rx8, gotslow? :owned:

I am sorry Hybrid I should have just ragged evilbada1 in his own thread, back to the topic at hand, lets see some pics.

Tell me what makes an evo a 'rice' car. While you are at it, tell me one performance category rx8 is superior to evo.

I have experience with both cars so talking smack just because you don't like it will only make YOU look bad.

I came to this thread to praise how awesome hybrid's car was. I didnt' come here to hear your bs. I could go on and on about bashing rx8 but I don't do that because I respect both cars.

Back onto topic. IMO, all greddy owners should go buy the interceptor-x and get custom tuned. 310whp is the real power I'm talking about. Frankly, I dont' see 220whp-240whp such an achievement. THIS is an achievement.

Tell me what makes an evo a 'rice' car. While you are at it, tell me one performance category rx8 is superior to evo.

I have experience with both cars so talking smack just because you don't like it will only make YOU look bad.

I came to this thread to praise how awesome hybrid's car was. I didnt' come here to hear your bs. I could go on and on about bashing rx8 but I don't do that because I respect both cars.

Back onto topic. IMO, all greddy owners should go buy the interceptor-x and get custom tuned. 310whp is the real power I'm talking about. Frankly, I dont' see 220whp-240whp such an achievement. THIS is an achievement.
At the same time you can't apply your opinion to everyone--some just want that extra kick versus that 'real power' as you say. Because honestly while I usually subscribe to the more power is better mantra--but most of the RX8 owners here could have easily afforded an EVO, STI, Mustang or many 'faster' cars. With that said I'd prefer just a modest increase in power without sacrificing driveability. I've had a modded FD before and right now I'm just not interested in getting back into that game.

OK guys. Take the arguments to PM's. I've gone and cleaned up the last page. Let's keep it that way.

Some recent pics from a show this past weekend.

Damn - looks like fun

Damn - looks like fun


Yes she does. ;)

Yes she does. ;)Nice legs :mdrmed:

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72569&stc=1

That 310 WHP is disgusting. Congrats on squeezing that much out of the little turbo. But I do agree with what other people have stated here. I think it'd "feel" better if it had a smoother delivery pattern like in NA.

Let's not lie though...ANYONE would be content with getting anywhere near 310 WHP, including myself. But now that I've driven the RX-8 for a couple years, not sure I'd like it as much if the max power came on so much earlier and then dropped significantly by the time you've hit redline. Sounds like you've cut the redline down by 2500 RPM or so. If you're really better off shifting by 6500 - 7000 now...then you've basically turned this car into a completely different machine from what it used to be. I guess this illustrates how this setup would have been more efficient on the 4 port with its lower redline? Not much use for in calling it a high revving engine anymore. Now it's just "the monster" sponsored in part by the RENESIS, haha.

Anyway, great job on the achievement. (And if you can't tell, I'm just jealous as hell.)

Thanks for that enlargement Nemesis! Too bad we can get more shots of her with the car. From the back, looks like she could definitely make the calendar.

congrats on breaking 300!!! nice looking car too!

In my opinion you guys are being over critical. You're trying to draw too many conclusion from just a dyno chart. Let me tell you, you will not notice the power drop after 7500. The revs go by waaaaayyyyy to fast. In 1st and 2nd gear I have a very hard time not hitting redline and it sure as hell feels like it pulls the whole way. Boost comes on at 3k and blam you're at 9k. Believe me the car feels like a beast with 290hp, Its gotta be ridiculous at 310.

All I'm saying is before you draw your conclusions take a ride in a well running turbo'd 8. I am very confident you will change your opinion.

Very well put. I couldn't have said it better!

exactly, but you forget... for most people, it's all about building dyno queens and having the best dyno chart.

very pathetic, IMO.

Congrats!, 310 sounds great, My 8 pulls harder and harder to redline with the turbo, People are too critical on dynos and charts, haters.....thats all. Is their car making 310 whp? Is there car even turbo??

Bigger turbo with better efficiency will solve that problem.
Where is PTP turbo kit?

Not true, supposedly PTP's dyno chart plummets after 7500 rpms. Although I have not personally seen the chart. I have seen SFR's though, and there's definitely stops making power at 7200. The power drop off is not an issue with the turbo, I suspect its an issue with the exhaust ports not being able to flow enough at high rpms.

Bigger turbo with better efficiency will solve that problem.
Where is PTP turbo kit?

Not true, supposedly PTP's dyno chart plummets after 7500 rpms. Although I have not personally seen the chart. I have seen SFR's though, and there's definitely stops making power at 7200. The power drop off is not an issue with the turbo, I suspect its an issue with the exhaust ports not being able to flow enough at high rpms.

Yeah, I still have the OEM exhaust. I've been eyeballing the TurboXS exhaust, of course. But at a grand, that's pretty steep. There's a guy here in town that will fab a custom 3" exhaust for about $350. I'm thinking of going that route. I mean, for the cost of just the TurboXS midpipe, I 'll have the entire thing. I'm willing to bet that most (>85%)of the gains from the TurboXS setup come from stripping the cat and the 3" tubing - not anything to do with the quality of the Y joint or the mufflers. So the cost savings will more than outweigh the couple of HP that this guys custom jobber might lack.
I just had to laugh at your sig...stompin those cars huh....with a simple boost controller and a wastegate you wouldn't be able to hang with an srt-4, and then the 300 hp mustang, blah blah...

Of course he would--simple boost controllers can be just as effective as the other kind!

Why wouldn't he? 310Wheel HP RX8 is a lot faster than stock 300 crank HP Mustangs and Neons. We have to at least acknowledge the laws of physics and science here people.

Not true, supposedly PTP's dyno chart plummets after 7500 rpms. Although I have not personally seen the chart. I have seen SFR's though, and there's definitely stops making power at 7200. The power drop off is not an issue with the turbo (#), I suspect its an issue with the exhaust ports not being able to flow enough at high rpms.
sounds like we're reading from the same book lol

oh yea, thats because we are!

Sorry for the hijacking but can I ask you? What kind of spoiler is that you have on your beautiful 8 ? You have R-magic kit. Is this from R-Magic or MazdaSpeed? I like it a lot.
Thanks in advance.

PS.: Congrats on your 8!

Not true, supposedly PTP's dyno chart plummets after 7500 rpms. Although I have not personally seen the chart. I have seen SFR's though, and there's definitely stops making power at 7200. The power drop off is not an issue with the turbo, I suspect its an issue with the exhaust ports not being able to flow enough at high rpms.

I didn't see their dyno chart. If they really stop making power with even 35r, then the exhuast ports must be it. It would be interesting to see what this car makes with some exhaust port work.

Genuine Mazdaspeed Wing

I didn't see their dyno chart. If they really stop making power with even 35r, then the exhuast ports must be it. It would be interesting to see what this car makes with some exhaust port work.
Here you go...

Here you go...
I thought the reason that their dyno dropped liked that was that they ran out of fuel and that was why they were upgrading the fuel system.

I really don't remember. After I got another turbo, I only check that thread out for a release date, not details.

I thought the reason that their dyno dropped liked that was that they ran out of fuel and that was why they were upgrading the fuel system.

Yes, I do remember reading that as the reason for the power dropping off.

Yes, I do remember reading that as the reason for the power dropping off.
Actually No. Below is the original Dyno sheet they posted. AFR's were in the 10's for 7.5-8k rpms which is enough fuel (but not sure what they'd be if they took it to redline).

They are upgrading the fuel system because they want to try for 400whp by increasing the boost.

Some recent pics from a show this past weekend.

Is your car gonna be in 3 fast 3 furious? :scratchhe

Lol...no fast and the furious 3... but it is scheduled to be in a major mag this spring/summer.. and the demo car for the Molson Grand Prix of Toronto/GPT Auto Expo. :)

Very cool my friend, Very cool.

Hybrid,
I didn't notice if this was asked already (sorry if it has and i didn't notice), but what gear was this dyno chart pulled in?

-hS

I believe it was a 5th gear pull.......Scott? Correct me if I'm wrong?

I always perform initial tuning runs in 3rd gear and then verify the data using 5th gear (1 to 1 ratio). So the dyno results are logged in 5th gear. Scott

Scott what are you doing playing around online? Get back to work!!!

I've seen people post their numbers on here with 3rd gear pulls, so i was just wanting to double check.

So 310 whp at 1:1. NICE!!

New pics..weather is just getting good now..I'll be getting up a video in a week..............

The more I see that Varis hood... the more i like it.

I'm assuming that WRX behind you at the McDonalds is not a coincidence either. LOL!

-hS

wow that is sexy.

The Subie is the wife's car....lol

Love the look of the hood on that car...drool...

The Subie is the wife's car....lol


There's a husband and wife team that cruise around here:
His: Ferrari F50
Hers: Lotus Elise

:Eyecrazy:

The Subie is the wife's car....lolyou have the perfect marriage

:bowdown:

you have the perfect marriage

:bowdown:
I'd agree, but the people in Maddog's area are even better.

^ No shizzle. I got behind them one night just cruising the strip. I was scared to death that my brakes were going to fail!

Congrats Hybrid/Scott, Scott your killing me with the suspense. I’m about 6-12 months from turboing my car. In the words of Dirty Harry, “But mister, I gots to know”

I'd agree, but the people in Maddog's area are even better.I dont know, between an F50 and Elise... its not centered.

I think the RX8 and STi has more balance, better harmony. And also because it was my plan as well. Too bad im not married, and have no reason to buy a second car yet.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=85529

:)

I dont know, between an F50 and Elise... its not centered.

I think the RX8 and STi has more balance, better harmony. And also because it was my plan as well. Too bad im not married, and have no reason to buy a second car yet.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=85529

:)


I don't know about that! I think the relative performance of an F50 and an Elise is about the same as a stock 8 and an STi!! :mdrmed:

There's a husband and wife team that cruise around here:
His: Ferrari F50
Hers: Lotus Elise

:Eyecrazy:

... :eyecrazy: :Drooling_

Where do you find wives like that???

... :eyecrazy: :Drooling_

Where do you find wives like that???


right next to the powerball winner headlines!!!!!


beers :beer:

My best friend is a girl and we would drive like that if we had the cash. Powerball would be nice... hahahaha

The wife's car.... A few mods going in this week... IHI VF22 turbo, STI 565 CC fuel injectors, Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump, catless up pipe and down pipe, ECUTEK engine management... At a modest tune we're expecting 280+ awhp... Looks like she'll give me a run for the money...

Take her from a roll. You'll be alright.