How many of you out there added the marvel mystery oil after break-in? That has always been a good synthetic additive for rotaries. I know I am a believer!

Notice I said additive because all conv. oil has additives that are synthetic in their oils.

you lost me

I run Marvel through the top end of my boat motor at the end of every season. Fire it in the driveway, kick the idle up and pour it straight down the carbs. Makes for huge plumb of smoke out the exhaust. Helps to keeps the rings, walls, bearings, etc... good and wet during the winters wait till next summer.

http://www.hotboat.com/image_center/data/500/93rearabove-med.jpg

that is a sweet motor

Originally posted by rxevolve10
How many of you out there added the marvel mystery oil after break-in? That has always been a good synthetic additive for rotaries. I know I am a believer!

Notice I said additive because all conv. oil has additives that are synthetic in their oils.

Not sure what your point is about Marvel being synthetic; it was formulated about 90 years ago. Its original purpose was to prevent and/or remove varnish and gum deposits resulting from the less-than-ideal gasolines of the time. So, it's mostly solvent, with a bit of very lightweight oil. The other predominant component is phosphorus, which I recall is very bad for catalytic converters and would doubly avoid given the higher-than normal oil consumption of the rotary.

The problems which the product orginally addressed were long ago remedied by improved gasoline and oil formulations.

It does smell nice, though ;)

Does anyone here run MMO in their oil or fuel? if so, did you feel a difference when using it?

Why would you want to use MMO in your Renesis?

1.3L

I've never even heard of it!!!!

It's a light petroleum used to clean the inside of dirty engines. It leaves little or no rsidue. A little bit won't hurt anything. Too much will thin your oil. Shouldn't need it in a new car.

its in a red and black can

trying to see if it'll clear out the carbon buildup???

Overall, MMO is heavier than gasoline, has longer chain molecules, less hydrogen per molecule, and would likely build up carbon if it was burned, not clean it out.

S

Overall, MMO is heavier than gasoline, has longer chain molecules, less hydrogen per molecule, and would likely build up carbon if it was burned, not clean it out.

S

Probably should not use it in an engine that burns oil like the rotary.

good to know, thanks *avoids MMO*

althought i did use it to as a piston soak in a oil burning saturn. worked rather well. :)

that's what I use it in, a saturn

I was wondering though if it could be used to supplement the use of oil by the engine, I know that some ppl put 2-stroke oil in the fuel for their RX-7 and then disconnect the metering pump to keep it from burning so much.

MMO is actually intended for cleaning out engines so I don't see why it would hurt anything.

MMO is not something that people should be adding to their engines to try to clean them out, primarily lubricate them, etc. At least not in a rotary. MMO is used by some rotary engine builders when assembling engines as it works as a good initial lubricant and rust preventer during assembly and on the initial first startup. The first time you start the engine up, the little bit that was literally wiped onto the surfaces is burned off and that's the last of it. Even then you don't necessarily use MMO on all of the parts during assembly. Unless you are building engines all day, you don't really need it. Use a good oil, good oil filter, maintain regular oil changes, and if you are concerned about interior engine lubrication issues, premix with 2 stroke oil. That's all you'd ever need to do and the premix part is optional.

It's a light petroleum used to clean the inside of dirty engines. It leaves little or no rsidue. A little bit won't hurt anything. Too much will thin your oil. Shouldn't need it in a new car.


The one and only time that I used MMO was specifically to thin the oil. Car (not an 8) was parked overnight in temps that were about 50 below and the straight weight oil was as thick as honey. MMO was the only chance at getting started. It did thin the oil considerably.

marvel mystery oil isn't that much different from dexron atf. it's an old school method to add in a bit of dexron to "clean up" the motor. not needed anymore. oils nowadays have enough detergents to do the job...that's if you change it regularly.

Be warned: Too much ATF or long duration in the engine is a big no no for any engine

I'm confused about what people think of Marvel Mystery Oil.

I used it and it seems to work. Not only that, but it IMPROVED my gas mileage for some reason. I know that's a tall claim, but I swear its true in my case. I went from an average of 17.5 miles per gallon ( city and highway) to around 19.5 (sometimes better than 20/ starting to get above that mark more often) miles per gallon.

Now I know many people have gas mileage issues with their RX-8, but I think some factors are:

1. How do you drive?

If you play racer X than yeah, the RX-8 is going to suck down all the gas you give.

2. High Octane.

The octane makes a difference. Putting cheap gas in the RX-8, gives you bad performance. But, I side note is that I've had good results with octane boosters. Xylene, and some others seem to work.

3. Using NEUTRAL whenever you can.

Learning to use shift to neutral down hills or when you coming to a red light (whenever your just driving and not wanting performance), seems to help. You need a little skill to develop this technique, but it seems to pay off.

4. Luck

Some people just have a better engine or the mechanics working on it are better. If you maintain your engine. Oil, oil filter, etc... and perhaps some mods, cold air filter, etc... seem to help as well.

Anyway, back to Marvel Mystery Oil (yeah, what a crazy name). The stuff was made to add to your gas and oil. It seems to burn well and not create any deposits and increase performance.

I don't know about using it as an oil additive, because there are so many other products. But as a gas additive, it appears to work well. I've also used it with octane boosters with lower octane gas and with high octane gas. Interestingly, I was able to get results with the lower octane gas, octane booster, and MMO added.

I hope some experts or "old timers" could add more opinions about this stuff and why it might work.

3. Using NEUTRAL whenever you can.

Learning to use shift to neutral down hills or when you coming to a red light (whenever your just driving and not wanting performance), seems to help. You need a little skill to develop this technique, but it seems to pay off.
Downshifting to slow down to a stop light will burn less fuel than shifting to neutral.

I use MMO every day.
To lube my air tools (impact/Air Ratchet)
Whats the big deal?

Used it in a car I used to own for upper cyl lubrication. Don't know if it really did any good or not but it did no harm. As far as the rotary, one would have to find out if it leaves any build up since they burn pretty hot. I don't know if I need to use premix or not but I might use it until I get the new flash. I have only 750 miles on the car right now.

I use MMO every day.
To lube my air tools (impact/Air Ratchet)
Whats the big deal?

that's the MMO tool oil man...i have that stuff for my tools too. but i stopped using it b/c it killed my 3/8 impact gun and 3/8 mini air ratchet. got them fixed and stopped using MMO, 2 years later, NO PROBLEMS. i'm never going to oil my tools again... :D:

I read about Marvel Mystery Oil back when I was flying. I guess it's got a niche in the General Aviation community. Anyway, from what I remember, there's not much to the stuff. It's an extremely lightweight oil; really more of a solvent than anything else. In addition it's got a lot of Phosphorus, which is an effective high-pressure lubricant but NOT a good thing for modern automobiles because it poisons the catalytic converter. In fact, phosphorus is being phased out of motor oils for this reason. Bad enough the Cat is getting a good dose of phosphorus from the amount of oil the rotary burns -- why double it by tossing high-phosphorus substance in the gas tank?

MMO was developed at a time when engines suffered a lot from gummy deposits in carburetors and on valves. It's solvent qualities worked well for that purpose. The phosphorus was an added bonus for "top-end lubrication". Modern gasoline and motor oil formulations have largely taken care of the gum issues as well as better materials and design for valvetrains. And the phosphorus is definitely a drawback.

I discovered Marvel Mystery Oil when somebody recommended it for my motorcycle. I used it some; not sure if it helped, didn't seem to hurt. Motorcycle is piston, no catalytic converter, so does it make any sense to use it there?

The first gen section of rx7club.com highly recommends it (at least when I frequented it). I've personally used it in my first gens and noticed a slight increase in mileage. Also, my carb was cleaner upon teardown. I know of first gens that run around with the OPM drawing MMO (instead of regular oil) from a special container. They seem to be running fine and strong.

For carbon locked engines they use the ATF or MMO trick. ATF fouls up the plugs, while many claim that MMO will burn right off.

I'm just wondering if I've been going wrong with MMO (along with many first gen owners). My 85 RX7 with ~200k miles has been fed MMO for several years and is still running strong. The 8 has yet to taste MMO...

FS

Used it all the time in my Harley with no problems.

Used it all the time in my Harley with no problems.
Wow! If you had no problems with a Harley, then it MUST be good stuff!!! <duck!>

Only kidding, I appreciate the info. Did you find it did any good?

Xylene is also said to increase gas mileage.

I'm wondering if the gas mileage increase from Marvel Mystery Oil is related to the combination of ingredients that it has. Supposedly, naphtha and wintergreen, are among the ingredients of Marvel Mystery Oil.

The "detergent effect" of Marvel Mystery Oil seems to be well proven, but I wonder if there is some ingredient in MMO, that also has a positive effect on gas mileage.

I'm also wondering if the combination of Xylene and MMO is having the positive effect. Boosting octane and adding a strong "detergent" at the same time.

I use MMO in both my Probe and RX-8. The inside of my Probes engine, at least under the valve covers, is sparkling clean!

i'm never going to oil my tools again... :D:
It's funny that you say that. When it comes to die grinders, the longest lasting ones that I've had have been ones that I have continually neglected to oil! The ones I did oil blew out seals much faster. Strange.

MMO is a FINE premix for a rotary. I built a new motor for my rx7, and ran MMO as premix since day one( ran NO metering oil pump). Sold it at 38,000 miles on the motor and it still ran like a champ. This car was used as a daily driver, enless nights of taking twisties, and countless times at the drag strip. Using MMO is PERFECT for the rotary engine. Dont let anybody tell you otherwise.

I have a 04 A/T that after 20k of 87oct needs 91oct or it will ping. Do you think MMO will clean the carbon deposits and I can go back to reg-87? Should I add it to gas or oil? Will it hurt it? What do you think, I have 30k now.

The manual says to use 95 octane in Australia, which I think is 91 or 93 in the USA. THis helps with preventing predetonation of the air fuel mixture, but it also has better detergents added, which keep your engine clean. I feel that long term use of lower quality fuels may cause deposits to build up in combustion chambers and may lead to premature failure of the rotary's apex seals. I am sure cars will run well for a period of time on lower octane fuels, it is just that I am worried about the longevity of the motor on lower quality fuel. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

So to retake the topic now that it's gotten some good discussion and answers made to it... what would be better to use, MMO or 2-stroke oil for premix with the gas? The seem to cost about the same if you buy them in larger volumes.

2 stroke oil is the way, I tried MMO once, didn't feel anything different

i have the recall done & premix w/ amsoil synthetic 2 stroke...
but, i use SEA FOAM every oil change to clean out any carbon buildup...

i have the recall done & premix w/ amsoil synthetic 2 stroke...
but, i use SEA FOAM every oil change to clean out any carbon buildup...

How many ounces amsoil two stroke per tank?

Why would you want to use MMO in your Renesis?

1.3L
Put it in the gas tank to help lubricate the seals and to help keep them from drying out. That's why.

Put it in the gas tank to help lubricate the seals and to help keep them from drying out. That's why.



You didn't read the whole thread, did you?

what the hell is MMO?? sounds like a shot you have to take!

Marvels Mystery Oil

You'd be better off using mineral spirits and some benzene. MMO is just snake oil...

Material Safety Data Sheet
SECTION I - Material Identity
SECTION II - Manufacturer's Information
SECTION III - Physical/Chemical Characteristics
SECTION IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard Data
SECTION V - Reactivity Data
SECTION VI - Health Hazard Data
SECTION VII - Precautions for Safe Handling and Use
SECTION VIII - Control Measures
SECTION IX - Label Data
SECTION X - Transportation Data
SECTION XI - Site Specific/Reporting Information
SECTION XII - Ingredients/Identity Information

SECTION I - Material Identity
Item Name
Part Number/Trade Name MARVEL MYSTERY OIL/LUBRICATING OIL
National Stock Number 9150011264459
CAGE Code 95015
Part Number Indicator A
MSDS Number 194363
HAZ Code B

SECTION II - Manufacturer's Information
Manufacturer Name THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC
Street 5655 W 73RD STREET
City CHICAGO
State IL
Country US
Zip Code 60638
Emergency Phone 708-563-3766
Information Phone 708-563-3766

MSDS Preparer's Information
Date MSDS Prepared/Revised 13FEB01
Active Indicator Y

Alternate Vendors

SECTION III - Physical/Chemical Characteristics
Appearance/Odor CLEAR AMBER LIQUID
Boiling Point 341.6 F
Melting Point N/A
Vapor Pressure 5
Vapor Density N/D
Specific Gravity 0.876
Evaporation Rate N/P
Solubility in Water INSOLUBLE
Percent Volatiles by Volume 25
Chemical pH N/D
Corrosion Rate N/P
Container Pressure Code 1
Temperature Code 4
Product State Code L

SECTION IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard Data
Flash Point Method UNK

SECTION V - Reactivity Data
Stability YES
Stability Conditions to Avoid NONE KNOWN
Materials to Avoid STRONG OXIDIZING AGENTS
Hazardous Decomposition Products CARBON MONOXIDE, CARBON DIOXIDE AND HYDROCARBONS
Hazardous Polymerization NO
Polymerization Conditions to Avoid WILL NOT OCCUR

SECTION VI - Health Hazard Data
Route of Entry: Skin YES
Route of Entry: Inhalation YES
Health Hazards - Acute and Chronic [INGEST] CAN CAUSE GASTRIONTESTINAL IRRITATION, NAUSEA, VO ITING, AND DIARRHEA. ASPIRATION INTO LUNGS CAN CAUSE PNEUMONITIS WHICH CAN BE FATAL.[SKIN] IRRITATION. DEFATTING OR DERMATITIS [INHALE] NASAL AND RESPIRATORY IRRITATION, DIZZINESS, WEAKENSS, FATIGUE, NAUSEA, HEADACHE, POSSIBEL UNCONSCIOUSNESS AND EVEN ASPHYXIATION [EYE] IRRITATION, REDNESS, TEARING OR BLURRED VISION
Carcinogenity: NTP NO
Carcinogenity: IARC NO
Carcinogenity: OSHA NO
Symptoms of Overexposure SEE ABOVE
Medical Cond. Aggrevated by Exposure N/P
Emergency/First Aid Procedures [INGEST] DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING GET MED. ATTN. ASPIRATON OF MATERIAL INTO LUNGS CAN CAUSE CHEMICAL PNEUMONITIS WHICH CAN BE FATAL[SKIN]WASH EXPOSED AREA WITH SOAP AND WATER REMOVE CONTAMINATED CLOTHING LAUNDER BEFORE REUSE[INHALE] MOVE TO FRESH AIR. IF BREATHING DIFFICULT, ADMINISTER OXYGEN IS BREATHING HAS STOPPED, GIVE ARTIFICIAL RESPIRATION, KEEP PERSON WARM. [EYES] FLUSH WITH WATER FOR 15 MIN. LIFTING EYELIDS GET MED. ATTN

SECTION VII - Precautions for Safe Handling and Use
Steps if Material Released/Spilled VENTILATE AREA, REMOVE SOURCES OF IGNITION, PREVENT ENTRY INTO SEWERS AND WATERWAYS. PICK UP FREE LIQUID FOR RECYCLE AND/OR DISPOSAL. ABOSRB SMALL AMTS. ON INERT MATERIAL FOR DISPOSAL
Waste Disposal Method IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATE, LOCAL, AND FEDERAL REGULATIONS
Handling and Storage Precautions NONE LISTED
Other Precautions NONE LISTED

SECTION VIII - Control Measures
Respiratory Protection IF EXPOSURE LEVELS EXCEED THOSE ESTABLISHED USE APPROVED AIR SUPPLIED RESPIRATOR IN ABSENCE OF PROPER ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROLS
Ventilation PROVIDE SUFFICIENT VENTILATION TO AVOID EXPOSURE LEVELS ABOVE ESTABLISHED TLV'S
Protective Gloves CHEMICAL RESISTANT
Eye Protection SPLASH GOGGLES
Other Protective Equipment IMPERVIOUS CLOTHING
Work Hygenic Practices WASH HANDS THOROUGHLY AFTER USE

SECTION IX - Label Data
Protect Eye YES
Protect Skin YES
Protect Respiratory NO
Chronic Indicator UNKNOWN
Contact Code UNKNOWN
Fire Code UNKNOWN
Health Code UNKNOWN
React Code UNKNOWN

SECTION X - Transportation Data
Container Quantity 1
Unit of Measure QT

SECTION XI - Site Specific/Reporting Information
Volatile Organic Compounds (P/G) 0
Volatile Organic Compounds (G/L) 0

SECTION XII - Ingredients/Identity Information
Ingredient # 01
Ingredient Name BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO-
CAS Number 95501

Ingredient # 02
Ingredient Name MINERAL SPIRITS
CAS Number 8052413

Ingredient # 03
Ingredient Name NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS
CAS Number 64742525


And just in case you didn't know what naphthenic hydrocarbons are:

Naphthenic Hydrocarbon
1. n. [Drilling Fluids] ID: 2135

A type of organic compound of carbon and hydrogen that contains one or more saturated cyclic (ring) structures, or contains such structures as a major portion of the molecule. The general formula is CnH2n. Naphthenic compounds are sometimes called naphthenes, cycloparaffins or hydrogenated benzenes. Naphtha is a refined petroleum fraction that contains a high percentage of these types of hydrocarbons. In drilling fluids, particularly oil-base muds, the amounts and types of hydrocarbons in the mud can be an important parameter in the overall performance of the mud.

In other words, wax mud

MMO was developed back in the days when gum and varnish were big problems for piston engines. So, it is primarily a solvent. It also contains a large amount of phosphorus, which can be a good high-pressure additive but unfortunately is bad for catalytic converters. But there is really not much oil in Marvel Misery Oil.

The manual says to use 95 octane in Australia, which I think is 91 or 93 in the USA. THis helps with preventing predetonation of the air fuel mixture, but it also has better detergents added, which keep your engine clean. I feel that long term use of lower quality fuels may cause deposits to build up in combustion chambers and may lead to premature failure of the rotary's apex seals. I am sure cars will run well for a period of time on lower octane fuels, it is just that I am worried about the longevity of the motor on lower quality fuel. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?


I highly doubt the 87 will hurt the Renesis. The S5 89-91 rx7 had 9.7:1 compression and did better on 87 than 93. My 8 only gets 87 and it redlines daily. I am tired of hearing about pinging and detonation on the renesis motors. I get 17-18 mpg in town as well. Its been to the track on 87.

On the MMO subject there is no need for it in the 8. If you wanna premix 2 stroke oil go for it. Just more lubrication for the apex seals.

This motor likes rpms. I think the sweet spot on my car is inbetween 6500 and 8300 rpms.

I think a little history of the rotary would do some folks favors. Lurk on over to 7club or better yet nopistions and do some searching. Info on 7 club isn't always accurate.

I have owned FB,FC,FD, and FE now. There is nothing that new other than the new manifolds, increased runner and port size. I am not the biggest fan of the sound of the side port exhaust as I like the old pp exaust ports. All the motors are very similar and if you can maintain one you can handle the rest. Especially after messing w/ FD's. They can be a little needy do to the complexity of the turbos and heat they produce.

There is my rant.

Glad I caught this thread!!


In my old first gen rx7, i started its life with a freshly rebuilt motor, and I put 35,000 miles on that motor before I sold the car.... PREMIXING MMO WITH NO OMP since day one.

You know what? That motor was clean as hell if you looked through the exhaust ports, and ran as great as it did when I finished the breakin period. I drove that car HARD... many many many passes of drag racing in its life.

MMO WORKS as a premix, and its a damn nice one. I just dont know what it does to the octane rating. In my TII I use 2 stroke instead, just as a saftey precaution because I cant have the octane rating dipping, whereas in the old N/A rotaries, the lower octane fuel you could get, the better. Oldschool rotary racers used to have special low octane fuel brought in.

Wow...use MMO, 2 stroke, High octane, Low octane...how about some Milk of Mag to get all the CRAP out of your car!!!

Me? I run hard and long (hmmm, wait, that sounds a little like 2 stroke...although I need a few more than just 2) everyday!

Unless I hear that little buzzer reminding me I've still got 2k more RPMs left before she blows (uh oh, no, wait, that didn't sound right either) I know I won't have a good day. LOL!

Glad to see when someone posts a question, that we can ALL come to an agreement. The agreement to agree to disagree...

Rotarygod has spoken. Listen up.

trying to see if it'll clear out the carbon buildup???



It helps some. Most rotorheads use it for additional lube (aka premix).

How many more people are going to post "their opinion" that this crap is a good lubricant?

It's basically a solvent, and absolutely no use as a lubricant - in fact it has been shown to make wear WORSE.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728 this study is just the latest - it shows MMO to be a worse lube than used oil, two stroke and most other additives.

In the test rig, the fuel with the MMO had much worse wear than the control sample that had NO additives!

Don't put it in your RENESIS.

S

I use SeaFoam, which is also an engine cleaner, in things like my mower, my snowblower and other small engines - clears the carbs of crap.

How many more people are going to post "their opinion" that this crap is a good lubricant?

It's basically a solvent, and absolutely no use as a lubricant - in fact it has been shown to make wear WORSE.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728 this study is just the latest - it shows MMO to be a worse lube than used oil, two stroke and most other additives.

In the test rig, the fuel with the MMO had much worse wear than the control sample that had NO additives!

Don't put it in your RENESIS.

S

Is the RENESIS a diesel? If not I don't see how that applies.

MMO may be less lubricating than diesel but more lubricating than gas which is also a solvent.

I've read through several of these premix threads and nobody seems to agree on anything.

my 1949 packard has a packard dealer installed marval mystery oil injector. this was a very popular thing. it helped lube the valve seats it cleaned the combustion area and was a very good product on the old packards. there was no thought of a wankle engine when mystery oil was first produced, I think you would be takeing a risk.no one knows what it may do to the rotor tips and other parts. marvel has a web site and they are very helpful people. I suggest you check with them. good luck

MMO may be less lubricating than diesel but more lubricating than gas which is also a solvent.


If you are looking for a lubricant (which we are, in this context) you wouldn't use diesel, so why even suggest something with CONFIRMED PITFUL lubricity?!*?

Oh, what do I care, use whatever Granpappy used in his Edsel.......


S

If you are looking for a lubricant (which we are, in this context) you wouldn't use diesel, so why even suggest something with CONFIRMED PITFUL lubricity?!*?


I don't think it is confirmed pitful. It is confirmed to be worse than diesel. How do you think straight gas would have done to their study?

Maybe I would use diesel. A little B100 is over 2x better than than the Super Tech 2 stroke oil. It might acutaly be a good choice for a pre-mix.

MMO has other properties that make it a possible good additive.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=138114&page=3&highlight=MMO (see page 3)
That thread also recommends pre-mixing although some still are against it.

Just looking for some answers. My thought was to run a gallon of MMO through my RENESIS with 36K on it - 4oz at a time to clean up any carbon deposits and see what it does for fuel mileage. I really don't think it will hurt anything and it does have more lubricity than gas.

BTW, thanks for the link to the diesel place study. My other vehicle is a Duramax and I may start looking for some bio fuel to add to it. I have found that the MPG goes up on biodiesel (when I can find it) under light loading. Hauling it goes down.

I'll never trust any product with both "Marvel" and "Mystery" in its name.

As for MMO, just use it quaterly to clean or clear out carbon dispots/ ash buildup , just know to ride the car hard while the pre-mix is in the tank... then add a two-stroke lube if you want...least for the next two or three fill-ups....

MMO may be useful for dissolving some of the carbon, but please don't get it confused with a lubricant - it ain't.
.
.
doc

my 49 packard 22nd series has a marvel mystery oil injector.

ive been using this stuff since i got my car. i premix in 4oz every fillup. So far the car runs great and i get around 17.5 mpg with almost all hard city driving.

Well im a little confused now as when i read the premix thread many say to use MMO, however it seems to be the opposite in this thread.

Yes, I noticed that.

My concern is carbon build up at the Apex seals, and the fact this is claimed to be a lubricant.

What we need is something that burns readily. I know it works on Harleys.

The MMO debate/discussion/argument has really taken a life of it's own. Premixing is controversial enough. I can't foresee any type of agreement on what to premix with.

Part of the explanation is that this is an old thread that has been resurrected. There was a time here when hardly anyone here saw a need for premixing with their RX-8s, let along premixing with MMO, which has been popular among older rotorheads for a while. Once the 2009 RX-8 engine changes started to become public, a lot more people were convinced of the wisdom of premix. As far as MMO is concerned, read Jax's posts in the linked thread and elsewhere if you want to get a fair view of why he became a specific proponent of MMO. He seems to know what he's talking about when he defends the lubricating benefits of MMO.

^^^^^

that is a very good observation about the the past 4 years of my life. the info that jax provided was very useful..

beers :beer:

Lol, I was convinced too...

I'm gonna pass on a product that's as old as MMO, although I heard it's a good top cylinder lubricant for diesels. Perhaps a bio diesel conversion is in your future.