so my car has been at the mazda dealer since saturday morning.

I was having a problem that others have had :

Car runs fine for cruising and 'normal' driving, but when you go WOT the car will run to around 5-6K rpm, then shutter and buck and not want to rev over about 7K rpm....durring this there is no CEL or any other warning lights, it did it a few times on and off for a day and slowly got worse....finaly my CEL blinked at me 5 times and went out.

It was misfire on rotor 2, took it into the dealer, they told me they changed the plugs and wires, and the problem was fixed. I took it for a test drive and it was not fixed, so I had the service dept take it back, they started going over the whole car "cause they have never seen this, and mazda has never seen this with any RX8"

The ONLY code the ECU has is the same misfire on rotor 2

Here is where it gets complicated, my car is STOCK, the ONLY thing that is different from one off the showroom floor is that my VFAD is removed and the vacume hose to it is pluged. This is because the car was in a front end collision and it was broken, I never got around to replacing it, and Ill admit I used the 200 bucks the insurance gave me for it to do an oil change and take my girlfriend out to dinner.....

The dealer told me that because the VFAD is gone, thats whats causing me problems , and my warrenty is now voided. I asked if there was a vacume leak, because I dont see how a phunmatic valve that is vacume operated could cause this problem, esp when the car doesnt even know if the valve is there or not....

They told me if I come pick up the car today, before they close they wont charge me anything....otherwise I have to pay for the rental car they gave me over the last few days AND the service charge for the tech working on this. I didnt want to get pissy on the phone so I told them I would be over right after work, and I want to talk with a tech and the service manage.

I have the broken VFAD at home (the pipe is cracked into several peices, I am going to take it with me.

Can anyone chime in and tell me their thinking? I am ready to debate this with them till hell frezez over, Ill even buy another damn VFAD or glue this one back together if they just FIX my damn car and let me keep my warrenty.

Im sure they are just blowing smoke, cause they dont have the power to do that...they cant figure out whats wrong and its eating up time in their bay.

My car has 106xx Miles on it and was built 04/05 and I bought it 05/05.

So if you removed the VFAD you also removed the flap so that is wide open? Have you checked for any possible blockage of the intake tubing you have left?
The link below shows seeds inside my air box left by field mice. It is not un-heard of to have a small animal crawl up there and die.
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46186

something else is wrong... otherwise all the people with REVi/airduct would have the same problems, which most people don't

take it for a 2nd opinion at another dealership?

so my car has been at the mazda dealer since saturday morning.

I was having a problem that others have had :

Car runs fine for cruising and 'normal' driving, but when you go WOT the car will run to around 5-6K rpm, then shutter and buck and not want to rev over about 7K rpm....durring this there is no CEL or any other warning lights, it did it a few times on and off for a day and slowly got worse....finaly my CEL blinked at me 5 times and went out.

It was misfire on rotor 2, took it into the dealer, they told me they changed the plugs and wires, and the problem was fixed. I took it for a test drive and it was not fixed, so I had the service dept take it back, they started going over the whole car "cause they have never seen this, and mazda has never seen this with any RX8"

The ONLY code the ECU has is the same misfire on rotor 2

Here is where it gets complicated, my car is STOCK, the ONLY thing that is different from one off the showroom floor is that my VFAD is removed and the vacume hose to it is pluged. This is because the car was in a front end collision and it was broken, I never got around to replacing it, and Ill admit I used the 200 bucks the insurance gave me for it to do an oil change and take my girlfriend out to dinner.....

The dealer told me that because the VFAD is gone, thats whats causing me problems , and my warrenty is now voided. I asked if there was a vacume leak, because I dont see how a phunmatic valve that is vacume operated could cause this problem, esp when the car doesnt even know if the valve is there or not....

They told me if I come pick up the car today, before they close they wont charge me anything....otherwise I have to pay for the rental car they gave me over the last few days AND the service charge for the tech working on this. I didnt want to get pissy on the phone so I told them I would be over right after work, and I want to talk with a tech and the service manage.

I have the broken VFAD at home (the pipe is cracked into several peices, I am going to take it with me.

Can anyone chime in and tell me their thinking? I am ready to debate this with them till hell frezez over, Ill even buy another damn VFAD or glue this one back together if they just FIX my damn car and let me keep my warrenty.

Im sure they are just blowing smoke, cause they dont have the power to do that...they cant figure out whats wrong and its eating up time in their bay.

My car has 106xx Miles on it and was built 04/05 and I bought it 05/05.


Remember - it takes more than them 'telling you what caused the problem' they have to PROVE IT.

This is what I'd do - ask them to disable the VFAD on an rx8 in their lot, and go for a drive. If the problem is there, they've made their case. If not, it's on them.

I'd bring them a copy of Magnussen-Moss act, too.

http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm

Did they check your coils?

They're looking for an easy way out of this. VFAD proved to be useless for most of us and shouldn't create problems for your car if disabled.

So if you removed the VFAD you also removed the flap so that is wide open? Have you checked for any possible blockage of the intake tubing you have left?
The link below shows seeds inside my air box left by field mice. It is not un-heard of to have a small animal crawl up there and die.
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46186


The black plastic cover that keeps the area above and below the crash bumper apart is still there, the car spends all its time parked in a garage anyway.

I changed the air filter (to another stock one) about 600 miles ago with my oil change and the box had a few small leaves, but nothing major.

I will be very interested to hear the tech explain how this valve that works of vacume pressure is causing a misfire and keeping the car from reving over 6K rpm.

They wont put the tech on the phone, so I have to hear everything thru the service advisor, as far as what Ive heard from him, they checked the valves in the intake manifold, reflashed the car, changed the plugs and wires, checked (maby changed) the fule pump/pressure, changed the air filter, changed the fuel filter.

They have not run a compression check, checked the coils or visualy checked the cat, all of witch I have requested....they say that mazda didnt tell them to check that, and Im not a tech...so they wont do it.

I will be more than happy to get a new VFAD and have them install it, but if the problem is still there, I wont pay for those parts or the work. They can take them back out.

Bottom line : the dealer is lazy/cant find out whats wrong and they dont want to deal with it... Telling me Mazda has NEVER heard of another RX8 doing this...ever... :boring: what???

Im not worried, I know Ill get to the bottom of this....im not worried, its just crazy that its taking this long to even FIND the problem.

ky,
i have a vfad sitting on my shelf in the garage that you can use if you want to take it in. i wll help you put it on if need be.

beers

That dealership as with most dealerships is full of crap. They don't have any clue what they are talking about and are too lazy to actually do something about it. Combine that with a crew of mechanics that probably believe that monkey wrenches are actually made by monkeys and you've got a combination of the most irresponsible and uneducated workforce you can find and they are working on your car. Tell us which dealership it is and then tell them how to get to this link. I want the moron who told you this to publicly come on here and attempt to defend their position.

That dealership as with most dealerships is full of crap. They don't have any clue what they are talking about and are too lazy to actually do something about it. Combine that with a crew of mechanics that probably believe that monkey wrenches are actually made by monkeys and you've got a combination of the most irresponsible and uneducated workforce you can find and they are working on your car. Tell us which dealership it is and then tell them how to get to this link. I want the moron who told you this to publicly come on here and attempt to defend their position.

i would pay money to see that thread!!!!!!!!!

beers

they'll especially look silly when the new MazdaSpeed cold air intake accessory comes out since it won't have a VFAD either and maintains the warranty .....

might as well get a Revi Ram air duct now :) :)

as for the problem...faulty spark plug?

come to think of it the new mazdaspeed cai probably doesnt use the vfad.

i will say that there is a cel for vfad not working. my car had it when they replaced the mop. my guess is they are just getting rid of all the cels hoping that is going to fix the problem.

beers

might as well get a Revi Ram air duct now :) :)

as for the problem...faulty spark plug?

no not a plug. my car did the same thing about 2 months ago. at least his is cronic. i have not had the problem again.

beers

It sounds like a fuel injector might be sticking or not coming on at all. Not too many things it can be and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it wouldn't be a VFAD issue.

the best i can tell when i had the problem they put 93 octane gas in it and reset the kamm.

i ran a can of b&g 44k just to be safe.

beers

first- they say they flashed your pcm? with WHAT? you had the recall work done so you are on the most current flash- there isnt anything newer. in order for your pcm to be re-programmed they would have to send it to MNAO like some have had done.

bottom line this is not a vfad problem. could be a faulty position sensor or wire harness or injector, could even possibly be knock causing a misfire event. but not anything to do with VFAD.

but just in case there is even the slightest possibility i will ask around.

Ask them why mazda didn't install the VFAD on the five speed 4port engines and auto's or are they smarther then the engineers at mazda. From my experience most of the mazda dealers know very little about the renesis, if i asked them something about it they can never answer or give the wrong answer.
So don't let them push you around. I have been waiting half a year know for them to solve my problem and they still haven't found a solution.

VFAD = basically Noise reduction for the intake

How does that cause a misfire??

IDIOTS :D:

That dealership as with most dealerships is full of crap. They don't have any clue what they are talking about and are too lazy to actually do something about it. Combine that with a crew of mechanics that probably believe that monkey wrenches are actually made by monkeys and you've got a combination of the most irresponsible and uneducated workforce you can find and they are working on your car. Tell us which dealership it is and then tell them how to get to this link. I want the moron who told you this to publicly come on here and attempt to defend their position.
Fred -

You and I need to team up and put together a WEB site to bash these fools.
You hold the dealers in contempt nearly as much as I.

The dealership service department is simply there as a way to make money after the sale. Even good techs are forced to bite their lip when a car comes in if the repair is not a money maker.
If the service department can't soak you or Mazda for a boatload of cash, they will simply spank you and send you out the door.

The best bet is to try to establish a direct relationship with one of the techs. When you have a problem, ask them directly.

Fortunately, the dealership I go to has several guys that are enthusiasts and genuinely decent. I'm sure they are good mechs to, but that is of little consequence to me. All I care about is that they don't give me static when I have a problem and sign-off on the paperwork.

How did you damage the VFAD during a front impact that only produced $200 worth of impact? Is it not pretty far behind the bumper?

ohh this sounds like what happend to my RX-8...took the techs over a week to find it and I even had to drive the car with the Mazda Tech to prove it to him......

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=66470

That might help some.

I have a vfad laying around too if you need it. I would like to know the dealer that is telling you this.

Sounds like you took it to Classic Mazda East.

Bad idea. They suck ass. Take it to Cory Feldman or whatever that dealer is across from Florida Mall. If you took it there, I guess try Classic Mazda, but they'll just dick you around some more.

Sorry to hear of your problem from another O-towner.

Cory Fairbanks is in Longwood.

Classic Mazda is by the florida mall...

If removing the VFAD voids your warranty, then why the hell is Mazda selling a CAI now? What a bunch of freakin' idiots some of these dealers are.

I'm calling BS. My VFAD broke in my accident and I didn't bother replacing it. 6 months later I installed the REVi and still no VFAD BUT still no problems.... :bsmeter:

Classic Mazda East is on Semoran between Uni and 50, I got my car there.

And their service dept. leaves something to be desired.

Ok, so I took off work early yesterday so I could run down to the dealer and have a talk with the tech.

He told me that my ONLY CEL is still the misfire on rotor 2, although they cant replicate my problem when they drive it, even though it happens to me EVERY time I drive once the car is warmed up.

I picked up the car, took it home, got my broken VFAD out of the garage (insurance told me to keep the broken parts....so I did) I super glued it back together, put it on and tested to make sure it was working, I cant remeber the exact rpm but around 5k it would move the flapper door from the long runner to the short runner. So i put the bumper back on and took it back to the dealer (around 45 mins total time from leaving till coming back) when I got back there, they asked again if I had any mods (same service advisor) and asked me to state the problem im having (the car STILL threw the mis fire code and had the same problem WITH the VFAD!!!) so I told him and he took the car in for service, and it should start again today.

He said MAZDA NA needs the VFAD on to check its operation and rule it out as a cause for the problem. Once its back on, he will take the car in for service again, but he has to start at the begining, as if its a new problem (WTF?) although he couldnt tell me why that is.

Im still in the same ford fucus that has a sticky plastic interior, coffee stained seats, NO ABS breaks (learned that the other day in the rain....) and smells like old Burger King. Horray, you buy the flagship car from the dealer, and get the worst of worst rental durring warrenty work.... :)

Anyway, at least it runs on regular and gets 28mpg...

He told me that so far he has (although he doesnt have any of my old parts, even though I asked to keep them, they were 'thrown away') :
*Changed the fuel pump
*Changed the spark plugs
*Changed the plug wires
*Changed the coil packs
*Run a compression check (he couldnt tell me what the #'s were or give me a print out or anything, but it was in spec, so Im having them run it again and giving me the reading this time)
*Checked for operation of the valves in the intake manifold
*Changed the MAF
*Reset the ECU and checked to make sure it has the current flash (it did)

He is working with Mazda tech-line to try and solve the problem....still this is the 4th day. Ive asked him to do a visual inspection of the CAT, he said he would....well see.

ky,
this is the other one that causes this problem.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=52522

beers

Jaguar MBA - I read the thread, and that is EXACALY...to the T (not just close : EXACT) what is happening in my car revs up to the beep like normal at light throtle and in N, under WOT in any gear it starts to bog, stall, sputter, hesitate, jerk at around 6K rpm, and the longer I sit in traffic, the lower the RPM the problem starts at.....one day it was at about 3K in ANY gear...

The dealer IS Cory Fairbanks in Longwood, same place I bought the car.

I have worked out all the threats of warrenty voiding, repaying the rental, paying the diagnostic...ect. I dont know why he thretend me on the phone like that, but I am working with a differnt service advisor now.

So no problems now other than what the car is doing, that they cant re-create or see any evidence of. They finaly took me up on my offer to drive the tech around.... so today after work he will see the problem, first hand. Maby that will help.

Im no fool with cars, ive built motors, done all my own matinence/modding, so I know my way around, I just wish they could fix the damn car, cause everything I suggest to them, from what they say, doesnt help.

I really hope this is just a case of someone who doesnt know what they are doing, and not a dealer saying they are doing work they are not.

I have had something of the same sort at the same dealer, I used John Von (I forget the last part) he did nothing he said he was having fixed. I had to talk to Jim Couch to get the issues fixed with my car and I even filed a complaint at the dealer and with Mazda about the John guy. Jim seems to do what he says from my experience. Good luck

Edit oh and this helped me out alot!

I talked to the customer relations manager (there are 2 at Cory Fairbanks) they are both named Sarah one has red hair and one has brown. They are VERY helpful in gettig things fixed. I would have not gotten new headlights were it not for Sarah (with brown hair). Try talking to them they seem to put a fire under the service guys butt..

I have had something of the same sort at the same dealer, I used John Von (I forget the last part) he did nothing he said he was having fixed. I had to talk to Jim Couch to get the issues fixed with my car and I even filed a complaint at the dealer and with Mazda about the John guy. Jim seems to do what he says from my experience. Good luck

Edit oh and this helped me out alot!

I talked to the customer relations manager (there are 2 at Cory Fairbanks) they are both named Sarah one has red hair and one has brown. They are VERY helpful in gettig things fixed. I would have not gotten new headlights were it not for Sarah (with brown hair). Try talking to them they seem to put a fire under the service guys butt..

Thanks for the info, after I drive with the tech today, I will start talking to higher-ups and the sarah's if I need to, I also have that foggy/hazzy water vapor in my headlights.

I also work with Cory Fairbanks neice, so maby she can pull some strings if nothing gets done by the end of the week.

I just wish they were as comitted to finding the problem as they are to trying to tell me there is nothing wrong with me car.

I'll give you $10 to print out this thread, take it with you, and get a pic of the Service Advisor reading it.

:D

Oh the other thing that they tried to pull, I brought the car in with a little more than a 1/4 tank of gas, and now its down to where the fuel light should come on at any time....the actualy called me to tell me I need to come and put gas in the car......WTF?!?! you put gas in it, your the ones driving it around for 20 miles a trip, not finding the problem.

You just can't expect them to pay for gas!!! Don't you know how expensive gas is in these times? That money is reserved for the burgers and shakes they're buying and transporting in your car.


Oh, sucks about your car.

He told me that my ONLY CEL is still the misfire on rotor 2.

When I drove the Tech in my car, it finally throwed a CEL...but it was only a mis-fire and did not help the tech at all in finding the issue.



He told me that so far he has (although he doesnt have any of my old parts, even though I asked to keep them, they were 'thrown away') :
*Changed the fuel pump


They should have all the old parts I imagine...they have to be sent back to MNAO I THINK. Also my Tech did not even have a fuel pressure gauge. The finally isolated the problem by making a inline fuel pressure gauge and driving the car to see what truely was happening.

I'll give you $10 to print out this thread, take it with you, and get a pic of the Service Advisor reading it.

:D
You should print out my prior thread on it and show him my tech's write up.

UPDATE :

Dealer called me, the say they talked to a tech in japan (Really?!?!?) and he said the only option is total engine replacement. They are shiping an engine from japan, overnight, it will be here on monday (i dont get how over night means monday, but whatever, it is another country).

I told the dealer and also told Mazda NAO that I was not satisfied that they have looked into every other possible option, I told them they can order the motor if they want, but NOT to install it untill I give them a green light. Mazda NAO did confirm its a brand new motor from the plant in japan and NOT a rebuilt motor. I will get new plugs, wires, alternator, belts and motor mounts to go along with it.

I dont know if I should try to get the car looked at by anothe rdealer or another mechanic, or what, I dont really know if I want the motor installed by 2 guys that took an 18 mo. course in daytona at UTI (no offence to mechanics) I just dont want to have problems in the future cause of the replacement.

tell to make it a 3 rotor in they are going to replace it anyways..... :)

Good luck, I wouldn't trust any other dealer in Orlando with replacing a motor though. Could you ask them what certifcations their techs have for the car then call other dealers and take the best trained tech to do it all?

this is all under warranty right?

Not only were they overnighting the parts from Japan but they also talked to some guy named Felix Wankel. Dealer really exhausted all resources. j/k

They probally mixed up the part number and a 20B renisis race motor will be droped in. Or V6 thinking Geoff wont know the difference.

Tech says, "with overnight parts from Japan your car will look like this:"
http://www.geocities.com/calvindibartolo/RX8.JPG

increase in acceleration, top speed and handling!

at corey fairbanks my friend brought his Mazdaspeed Protege there after blowing his LSD. I wont say who because im sure mazda looks at these boards, but there was a cool tech that tried to cover for him. But with such a big fix it was up to the lead mechanic which was some old guy who has alot of experience. That was a tranny rebuild becaus gears and syncros had to be replaced...I dont know if engine swap will be performed by a higher mechanic then your average oil chenge boy.

I do know when he got his car back the clutch was way soft. like they used a standard protege clutch instead of the MSP clutch.

The master tech will be replacing he motor, supposedly he has done 20 of them, and none of them have had any more problems.....so heres hoping.

The car goes under the knife on monday, and should be done tue or wen they say. Then ill go thru my 2k mile breakin...again.

Ill be interested to see what mazda says when they get my old motor to look at and find it filled with syn oil.

oops, im on my GF screen name, this is KYLiqyid....blah