These cars have different personalities, but very similar similar specs on paper.

Both have the same weight distribution, similar horsepower ratings (manual tranny) nearly the same 0-60 (mph) times (RX-8 is faster, though), nearly the same skidpad performance (RX-8 is slightly more capable), and pretty close braking performance (RX-8 again bests the 330i, though).

Yet the 330i costs at least $15,000 more. Why? A case of mere teutonic snobbery, or something more substantive?

it wears a propeller badge, that's why...

Luxury and the BMW badge.

don't u no all the "BMW" badges cost money!? lol....

I drove a 330i and found it to be a really comfortable daily driver without any excitement--certainly not like the 8 with its 9K redline. It does have a start button though.

It costs fifteen grand more 'cos that's what the shiny suits at BMW marketing reckon the market will pay for it.

alright enough with it's just "bmw" badge...

Bmw has a reputation of building really good cars that aren't just street cars.. you can take most to a track and have a good time with it... just look at their history of racing.. especially m-cars..

You're paying extra for all the leather and luxury trim... and i'm pretty sure most of the chassis/engine/tranny components are well built... meaning.. cost more money

not to say mazda sucks or anything... mazda is just sweet and made a good deal for us..

personally.. i love how rx8 feel.. so i'm stickin by my baby..

also that 15k goes to... when someone asks u what car u drive... u say a BMW, they'll be like ooOO a BMW.... but if u say a Mazda, they'll be like a MAZDA!?!?!

The fit and finish on the BMW is superior IMHO. The RX-8 plastic parts, paint, etc. just doesn't have that last bit of high finish or robustness. Nice to have that but wasn't worth an extra 15K to me. The RX-8 is good enough and the last bit of quality of the BMW doesn't count in driving.

I have an 05 Rx-8 and an 05 BMW X5 - just traded an 01 BMW 530i and a 2000 BMW 328CI (coupe). I love my 8 but I do believe the quality of materials (leather, stitching, non-plastic dash, etc) and subjectively workmanship are better on the BMW. My 530i had 75k miles when i traded it and had no squeaks or rattles. My 8 has quite a few rattles and in different location. Does anyone else have both where they can make a comparison?

A few of my friends have 05 BMW M3's and I like them but I see it had to justify their almost 30k more pricetag. Now when the new M3 (if they keep the name - might be M4) comes out, I might just be swayed.......

Pays for their new "free" maintenance program. :D
Alot more luxury.
Supply and demand.
Nameplate. (there's a reason Sony crap costs more, and it's not superior products
:p )
And most people associate price with quality, though it's not always true. BMW doesn't make the most reliable cars out there. Hell none of zee Germans do. But people still buy them because there's no real alternative. Acura, Infinity, Volvo, and Saab are all a step below in the luxury car market, particularly in the public's eye. Jags and the like are equal to and above.Cadillac is on a parallel with them, but still seperated by their being American. This is my observation of public opinion at any rate.

Where did you get the $15K figure?

I just went to BMW's website, and I priced out a 330ci to $37,295 MSRP incl. dest charge. My 6MT car with sport package was $28,735 MSRP incl. dest charge. That's an $8.5K difference.

Now, realistically, I bought my car for invoice - 1K plus random crap, so it cost me about $26K, and I don't think you can buy the BMWs under MSRP, which makes the difference $11K.

What are you paying for? Luxury, the fit and finish of materials, the ride that is more refined, a good amount of reliability (maybe not Honda-like, but still top notch), the torquey grunt of 220ft/lbs of torque at 2750 RPM.

Luxury-wise, you get standard items with the BMW that you don't get in my 8, like: rain-sensing wipers, fully automatic headlights, MP3 player (std), automatic temperature control, dual-zone A/C, automatic recirculation when a sensor detects certain pollutants in the air (e.g. carbon monoxide), the "head protection system" (a fancy safety feature), power moonroof (requires a more expensive package on the 8), power/memory seats, plus full maintenance for 4yrs/50K incl. normal wear and tear items.

So basically, the car has extra features and attention to detail and safety that make BMW famous.

Now, whether those are features and things that you care about and are willing to pay for, is a whole different question.

1. the prestige brand name
2. better built quality

What are you paying for? Luxury, the fit and finish of materials, the ride that is more refined, a good amount of reliability (maybe not Honda-like, but still top notch), the torquey grunt of 220ft/lbs of torque at 2750 RPM.

Luxury-wise, you get standard items with the BMW that you don't get in my 8, like: rain-sensing wipers, fully automatic headlights, MP3 player (std), automatic temperature control, dual-zone A/C, automatic recirculation when a sensor detects certain pollutants in the air (e.g. carbon monoxide), the "head protection system" (a fancy safety feature), power moonroof (requires a more expensive package on the 8), power/memory seats, plus full maintenance for 4yrs/50K incl. normal wear and tear items.

So basically, the car has extra features and attention to detail and safety that make BMW famous.

my girlfriends car (05 new jetta tdi) has rain sensing wipers, 6disc mp3 player (std), dual zone auto climate control, power moon roof, heated seats, air conditioned glove box and center console, 10 airbags, if it goes off the road and ends up in deep water, it will float for 15 minutes and auto roll down the windows, and a ton of other stuff i can't remember...amenities that put it on par with BMWs, and it cost her 24 and some change before fees. and it averages just under 40 mpg mixed driving. so...that $15k really is just for the bmw badge ;)

I'd argue the build quality. I buddy of mine had one and that thing left our office parking lot on a wrecker 5 times in one year (I knopw all brands make lemons) But I know a few people with them, and they seem to be in the shop alot.. And when they go to the shop - good god. $280 for a battery???

I do think they feel like they are made better. And I do think the interior is alot nicer...But overall, I'd put money on my rx-8 starting up over the BMW.

While German cars are wonderful while under warranty, they are nightmare afterwards and you don't want to go near one with over 100K miles. The repair bills are out of sight. Even if they break infrequently, one major repair can equal 5 or six on another car. There is a saying that applies to all German cars. If you can't afford a new one, you can't afford a used one, either. Some have had good experiences, but my folks have had a couple Mercedes, low and high line, and they both cost upwards of $1000-$1500 monthly in repair bills once they get high miles on them. I believe they are better now, but in the 80's they were superbly engineered to self-destruct at higher mileage. Why do you think Lexus and Acura did so well coming out new with zero lineage??? Because buyers still wanted to spend a lot of money, but they did not want to be taken advantage of anymore. I like the 8 because it's the only import sports car with an engine so simple that a major rebuild would still worthwhile. If I had a Z-twin turbo that died, I'd just leave the key in it and walk away. I think the Japenese build the best cars, period. And the Americans have the capability to do the same now, but it is only done infrequently here with a few models. And watch those South Koreans, they have learned how to make good cars too and they stand behind them. I would not hesitate to buy a Hyundai. That Tiburon is a very nice car, my dad owned one. Killed an equivalent Honda in fit and finish and quality of interior materials. Actually, it has more padded vinyl than the 8. I really hate this trend of hard plastic dashboards. Door panels even more because we rest on them and touch them every day.

BMW quality has deteriorate as of late. I know 4 people that hate their BMWs and can't wait to get rid of them. While they are all 3 series, the cars have had similar problems and the owners vouch never to buy a BMW again.

I personally don't feel the fit and finish in side the 3 series is all THAT superior that would justify $15k more.

my girlfriends car (05 new jetta tdi) has rain sensing wipers, 6disc mp3 player (std), dual zone auto climate control, power moon roof, heated seats, air conditioned glove box and center console, 10 airbags, if it goes off the road and ends up in deep water, it will float for 15 minutes and auto roll down the windows, and a ton of other stuff i can't remember...amenities that put it on par with BMWs, and it cost her 24 and some change before fees. and it averages just under 40 mpg mixed driving. so...that $15k really is just for the bmw badge ;)
hardly. Your gf's jetta is a piece of shit. VW's reliability is piss poor, and their ride is completely uninspiring.

By the way, this thread is stupid. Stop hating other cars people. And, stop being so arrogant.

I'd argue the build quality. I buddy of mine had one and that thing left our office parking lot on a wrecker 5 times in one year (I knopw all brands make lemons) But I know a few people with them, and they seem to be in the shop alot.. And when they go to the shop - good god. $280 for a battery???

I do think they feel like they are made better. And I do think the interior is alot nicer...But overall, I'd put money on my rx-8 starting up over the BMW.
No offence dude. But if your freind is willing to pay 280 dollars for a battery, he deserves to be charged 280 dollars for a battery. Can't blame them if their customers will pay it.

I'd say a car is a car. Most cars (the kind most of us average joe's can afford) will lose immense amount of value as soon it is driven off the lot. And after 100k miles people are starting to see real problems, but only because many are too lazy to maintain their car. So why spend 60k on a luxury car when you're only going to get it replaced within 4 years, when you can buy one for less than 35k. The more little gadgets you have on your car, the better the chance something is going to break.

hardly. Your gf's jetta is a piece of shit. VW's reliability is piss poor, and their ride is completely uninspiring.

By the way, this thread is stupid. Stop hating other cars people. And, stop being so arrogant.


Who said anything about hating any other cars?

As a matter of fact, I actually like the BMW 3 Series, including the 325, 330 and M3. Moreover, I actuallly considered buying a BMW 330i.

I was asking, specifically, what was it about the 330i on the merits that warranted the relatively higher price over and above the RX-8.

If anyone is hating cars, you seem to be hating Volkswagens, no?

If you think this thread is stupid, why did you even bother to weigh in?

hardly. Your gf's jetta is a piece of shit. VW's reliability is piss poor, and their ride is completely uninspiring.

By the way, this thread is stupid. Stop hating other cars people. And, stop being so arrogant.

kinda like you just did? :rolleyes:

VW's reliablity is much better today than it was a few years ago, and the ride might not be the same as the 8's, but its not intended to be. what it is intended to be is comfortable and safe, which it excels at, while having decent handling at the same time.

Who said anything about hating any other cars?

As a matter of fact, I actually like the BMW 3 Series, including the 325, 330 and M3. Moreover, I actuallly considered buying a BMW 330i.

I was asking, specifically, what was it about the 330i on the merits that warranted the relatively higher price over and above the RX-8.

If anyone is hating cars, you seem to be hating Volkswagens, no?

If you think this thread is stupid, why did you even bother to weigh in?

that would probably be engine, suspension, luxury amenities, and a large portion...image.

to have as similiar a comparision as possible, you'd need to compare the GT model to 330i, then the prices are much more comperable. and then the few thousand dollar difference can easiliy be to marketing.

Where did you get the $15K figure?

I just went to BMW's website, and I priced out a 330ci to $37,295 MSRP incl. dest charge. My 6MT car with sport package was $28,735 MSRP incl. dest charge. That's an $8.5K difference.

Now, realistically, I bought my car for invoice - 1K plus random crap, so it cost me about $26K, and I don't think you can buy the BMWs under MSRP, which makes the difference $11K.


The difference is even less if one does a better job comparing apples and apples... see below.


Luxury-wise, you get standard items with the BMW that you don't get in my 8, like: rain-sensing wipers, fully automatic headlights, MP3 player (std), automatic temperature control, dual-zone A/C, automatic recirculation when a sensor detects certain pollutants in the air (e.g. carbon monoxide), the "head protection system" (a fancy safety feature), power moonroof (requires a more expensive package on the 8), power/memory seats, plus full maintenance for 4yrs/50K incl. normal wear and tear items.


So why then aren't we comparing against an 8 that at least has the features that you *can* get in an 8, such as power moonroof and power seats? I recall my Shinka retailing for like $33k, so you're talking maybe 4-5k difference, if the above-quoted BMW price is right ("Come on down!")

As a side-comment, though... I'm sure all of us agree that having to actually *turn on* the wipers, all by yourself, when it starts to rain has been the bane of drivers ever since wipers were invented. Why, I nearly failed my drivers test because I couldn't manage to control the car while flipping that oh-so-difficult lever. And don't get me started about having to turn the knob and *manually* turn on the headlights! I can't use my sore, exhausted hand for 15 minutes after every time I have to perform that odious task!

Seriously, the creeping featurism in cars is getting out of hand. The ridiculous gadgets they come up with, so they can inflate the price of the car, in the name of "luxury"... A major reason I didn't buy a corvette was because they had vastly inflated the price with "options" (optional only in theory... *no* dealer in my extended area had one that didn't have all this junk) that I didn't need, didn't want, or outright would've preferred to not have even if they were free. My favorite example: the uber-high-tech automatic keyless electronic door lock/ignition. Saves you from that dreaded drudgery of having to *gasp* push the fob button to unlock the door (or even *shudder* unlock the door with a key!) Only one slight wisp of a problem with it: if the car battery dies, YOU CAN'T OPEN THE DOOR. Not just you can't unlock it, YOU CAN'T OPEN IT. (I know this because the idiot dealer I went to had actually let the floor model's battery die). And oh, the sharp engineers had thought about this problem, and provided a convenient solution: there's a secret magic manual switch *in the trunk* that will open the dead doors, and you can open the trunk with a key.

Which means that the Wonderous Magic of Keyless Corvetteness-- which requires you to carry around a very large and ridiculously-expensive-to-replace-when-you-lose-one fob-- also STILL requires you to carry around a big trunk key too.

One of the things I liked about the 8 was it had all the features I wanted, and none of the gee-whiz crap.

Krankor
05 Shinka 6MT

The difference is even less if one does a better job comparing apples and apples... see below.



So why then aren't we comparing against an 8 that at least has the features that you *can* get in an 8, such as power moonroof and power seats? I recall my Shinka retailing for like $33k, so you're talking maybe 4-5k difference, if the above-quoted BMW price is right ("Come on down!")

As a side-comment, though... I'm sure all of us agree that having to actually *turn on* the wipers, all by yourself, when it starts to rain has been the bane of drivers ever since wipers were invented. Why, I nearly failed my drivers test because I couldn't manage to control the car while flipping that oh-so-difficult lever. And don't get me started about having to turn the knob and *manually* turn on the headlights! I can't use my sore, exhausted hand for 15 minutes after every time I have to perform that odious task!

Seriously, the creeping featurism in cars is getting out of hand. The ridiculous gadgets they come up with, so they can inflate the price of the car, in the name of "luxury"... A major reason I didn't buy a corvette was because they had vastly inflated the price with "options" (optional only in theory... *no* dealer in my extended area had one that didn't have all this junk) that I didn't need, didn't want, or outright would've preferred to not have even if they were free. My favorite example: the uber-high-tech automatic keyless electronic door lock/ignition. Saves you from that dreaded drudgery of having to *gasp* push the fob button to unlock the door (or even *shudder* unlock the door with a key!) Only one slight wisp of a problem with it: if the car battery dies, YOU CAN'T OPEN THE DOOR. Not just you can't unlock it, YOU CAN'T OPEN IT. (I know this because the idiot dealer I went to had actually let the floor model's battery die). And oh, the sharp engineers had thought about this problem, and provided a convenient solution: there's a secret magic manual switch *in the trunk* that will open the dead doors, and you can open the trunk with a key.

Which means that the Wonderous Magic of Keyless Corvetteness-- which requires you to carry around a very large and ridiculously-expensive-to-replace-when-you-lose-one fob-- also STILL requires you to carry around a big trunk key too.

One of the things I liked about the 8 was it had all the features I wanted, and none of the gee-whiz crap.

Krankor
05 Shinka 6MT


I agree. And you forgot about the absolutely necessary rear bumper cameras and the lane departure warning systems. :D

Saves you from that dreaded drudgery of having to *gasp* push the fob button to unlock the door (or even *shudder* unlock the door with a key!) Only one slight wisp of a problem with it: if the car battery dies, YOU CAN'T OPEN THE DOOR. Not just you can't unlock it, YOU CAN'T OPEN IT. (I know this because the idiot dealer I went to had actually let the floor model's battery die). And oh, the sharp engineers had thought about this problem, and provided a convenient solution: there's a secret magic manual switch *in the trunk* that will open the dead doors, and you can open the trunk with a key.

The keyless entry is nice. Opening doors without a key is a very convenient feature and is not nearly in the same league of "kinda pointless" as keyless start and rain-sensing wipers.

BMW----good grief. Yeah they are known for their racing prowess, but also is Mazda. I remember one of my previous posts which discussed value. Value can be such a subjective thing. I have driven BMW's, Benzs, Audis and RX8's. I realized that the German cars cost more because let's face it....they're German! Yeah it's sounds snotty, but the German's have played that card for years. Back in the what?...70's and 80's when American cars were total junk mobiles, the Germans were building a better product. Like the Japaneese, they gave Americans a good quality automobile with nice features that American cars didn't have, but unlike the Japaneese, they charged us dearly for that 3-pointed star, propellers, and 4 rings. I remember first looking at an '85 Audi 5000 and noticing that it had rear headrests! I was so amazed by something like that cuz you wouldn't find them in a Caddy, or Lincoln? Then I noticed how Mercedes had them, BMW....

How about 4 wheel disc brakes on a luxury sedan? Please, you think Chrysler would do something like that? I remember those rear drums! Or how about an interior that had real leather chairs instead of something that was leather like or heaven forbid...VINYL! Back in the day, and sometimes even to this day...some American cars break down as soon as you make that last payment. But before then, they are shaking, rattling and rolling all along the way. Remember Cadillac in the 90's, they were RATTLACS!

Germans made better products. I know this thread is about BMW vs. Mazda...and to be honest I would rather have an Acura TL vs. a 3 series, but would never get one as long as it's front-wheel drive. I think the fit and finish of it is better or at least on par with the Bimmer and you get a greater value. In my opinion, I think Audis are superior to BMW and Mercedes automobiles when it comes to fit and finish...especially Audi's interiors. They have no equal, but again that's just my opinion. I had an '83 Mazda RX7 that was 12 years old when I let it go, and the only thing that rattled in it was somewhere near where the headliner met the windshield, and it had to be near freezing temps. for that to happen. Now fast forward to my '94 Probe GT, that has so many rattles it sounds like a box of Cracker Jacks, and it's around 11 yrs. old.

BMW is continuing to play the " Well it's a BMW...the ultimate driving machine " as long as a person perceives that....then they will more than gladly pay the premium price to have it in their driveway. Let's face it, a lot of people like labels....would you rather wear DKNY or the K-Mart blue light special? That depends on where your priorities lie. I just want a car that is sporty, built well, is unique and is a great handler. Mazda could have probably charged 5-8 grand more for the 8 than it does, but they have learned from the FD....too high of a price will kill yah! The eight meets all of my qualifications, so when April of '06 rolls around, you can best bet that I will be in someone' s Mazda dealership signing the dotted line for my Winning Blue RX8 finished over black leather. Good Lawd I'm tired...let me go an get some water!

You do know that the Ford Probe was just a rebadged Mazda?

You do know that the Ford Probe was just a rebadged Mazda?

lol

Mugatu, you now know 5 people that will never purchase a BMW again.

You know it's kind of weird that the 8 is so cheap. Considering it has an engine that practically no one else has (I'M FINE WITH IT'S CURRENT COST). The 8 is unique. The BMW is like worth the same as the 8 (and isn't very unique) but the rest name, status, and luxury. It's almost like sneakers. Add Michael Jordan name to a sneaker or T-shirt for that matter and see what happens to the price.

You know it's kind of weird that the 8 is so cheap. Considering it has an engine that practically no one else has

Shhhh! MNAO might be reading...

(I'M FINE WITH IT'S CURRENT COST)

Nice save!

I think one of the reasons that Mazda sticks with the Rotary engine is cost. It's no secret that with far fewer (and cheaper) components the rotary is significantly cheaper to produce than a piston engine. That might explain part of the BMW/RX-8 cost difference. It also explains why Mazda doesn't have to sell that many RX-8s to make a profit on them - the engine's so much cheaper to build that they make a ton of money on each car.

I think one of the reasons that Mazda sticks with the Rotary engine is cost. It's no secret that with far fewer (and cheaper) components the rotary is significantly cheaper to produce than a piston engine. That might explain part of the BMW/RX-8 cost difference. It also explains why Mazda doesn't have to sell that many RX-8s to make a profit on them - the engine's so much cheaper to build that they make a ton of money on each car.

Actually, I think the RX-8 engines are hand-built and so are more expensive to produce than typical engines.

Look at the history of BMW. They always used to be for the rich people, people with large amounts of money. Only the high-class citizens could/would have one. Nowadays that may not hold, but the brand still tries to reflect that 'prestige'...

And Astral is right about the engines being hand-built. I think Mazda does it because they are the only to have done it, and they made themselves a following after the RX7

These cars have different personalities, but very similar similar specs on paper.

Both have the same weight distribution, similar horsepower ratings (manual tranny) nearly the same 0-60 (mph) times (RX-8 is faster, though), nearly the same skidpad performance (RX-8 is slightly more capable), and pretty close braking performance (RX-8 again bests the 330i, though).

Yet the 330i costs at least $15,000 more. Why? A case of mere teutonic snobbery, or something more substantive?

Germans get paid more than Japanese?
--R.

BTW: skidpad is more a measure of the tires than the chassis, not a particulary useful measurement, try slalom speed, it's not great, but it's the closest thing to a number of for handling.

I wonder how much would a Michael Jordan edition Beemer cost?

These cars have different personalities, but very similar similar specs on paper.

Both have the same weight distribution, similar horsepower ratings (manual tranny) nearly the same 0-60 (mph) times (RX-8 is faster, though), nearly the same skidpad performance (RX-8 is slightly more capable), and pretty close braking performance (RX-8 again bests the 330i, though).

Yet the 330i costs at least $15,000 more. Why? A case of mere teutonic snobbery, or something more substantive?

Conspicuous consumption. It's what the market will bear. There are plenty of people out there who will pay the extra bucks to let people know that they own it because they can.

Hmm... aren't we comparing apples and oranges here.

For me... I was actually wondering why the RX-8 was so expensive when you add the options. So I guess it's just a matter of opinion.

Consider this before you jump all over me:

2006 330i
0-60 5.6s
hp/tq 255/220
Mpg 21/31

2005 RX-8
0-60 6.6
hq/tq 238/159
Mpg 18/24

Remember people, it's a sedan! BMW has a family-carrier that is darn quick, handles well (not as well as the RX-8, given), and yet still gets decent fuel mileage. But to get this you have to pay the entrance fee.

Cheers.

i agree that this is an apples/oranges debate, but where are you quoting these numbers from? BMWusa.com lists the 0-60 at 6.1s for manual and 6.3s for the auto.

the redesigned i6 that they're using is quite a piece of work. the 3.0L diesel took international engine of the year honors and the other petrol variants all placed in the top three. lots of magnesium to reduce weight and improved valvetronic/double vanos make this engine pretty damn impressive.

Hehee! you picked the fastest 330i 0-60 ever published and the slowest RX-8 0-60 ever published.

One difference is you can get AWD with the beemer (even more expensive). And I'd say the backseat and trunk are bigger.

beemer's backseat are pretty much about the same size as the 8's, minus the center tunnel, which will make it *seem* roomier than it actually is

You do know that the Ford Probe was just a rebadged Mazda?


Yes it is a rebadged Mazda, but.....the interior and exterior is of Ford's doing. The engine and tranny (by Mazda, yes) is the only good thing about it.

Buy the RX-8, put the money you saved from not buying the bimmer into a few good stocks. After six years, you will be able to buy the future RX-7 (or bimmer if you must) in cash from the capital gains.

Expensive depreciating assets make you poor ;)

All the people I know that own the 3 series (excluding the M3) live paycheck to paycheck and do not have any investment assets.

Hehee! you picked the fastest 330i 0-60 ever published and the slowest RX-8 0-60 ever published.

Whatever. I went to C&D and got their numbers. Check them yourselves.

One difference is you can get AWD with the beemer (even more expensive). And I'd say the backseat and trunk are bigger.

The backseat and trunk are bigger in the Bimmer, there's no question of that.

The whole premise of this thread is silly. There's not a 15k difference unless you're comparing a fully loaded 330i (Nav., leather, etc.) to a stripped RX-8.

RX-8 GT -> $32k
330i with leather -> $39k

Good luck finding a new 2006 330i w/ leather for $39K ;)

The reason the BMW costs more is because it is more expensive.

Brilliant! Most definitive answer in the whole thread. :)

The reason the BMW costs more is because it is more expensive.

they provide full maintanence for 4 years and is a dream to drive...
luxury performance

Good luck finding a new 2006 330i w/ leather for $39K ;)

Ok $38k? I quoted full MSRP. There's no reason you can't get it for less.

Me, I'd forget the leather and for $39k have the sport package.

they provide full maintanence for 4 years and is a dream to drive...
luxury performance

Well... it's not really free. You end up paying for it in the purchase price.

i didnt say it was free... i said it was provided ::dumb look::

The 330i that Consumer Reports tested was more than $42,000 as tested.

Also, those Car & Driver numbers that someone listed are ridiculous.

Road & Track clocks the RX-8 at 0-60mph in 5.9 seconds, doing 0.91g on the skidpad, with a top speed of 141 mph, and braking from 60-0mph in 118 feet, all better than the 330i.

I've driven the '06 330i MT.

The clutch pedal was so light, I was like: "wheres the clutch? and who put that pillow there?"

The shifter was long and very clumsy with lots of play in every direction.

Do you know how the RX8 is low on low end torque? Well, so is this car, but it doesn't get much better when the rpms go up. I can honestly say my 1992 Nissan Maxima with 145K miles on it has more lowend pull than this car.

The inside was very spartan, it is very "rental-car." or "Dodge neon" if you perfer.

Suspension feels suprisingly good, though I didn't push it.

Brakes leave much to be desired.

I absolutely hate the digital turn signals. They are a PITA..

------------------
I had 2 college girls with me for the test drive...

And their final verdict when the drive was over was: "I don't know what all the hype about BMW is about, that didn't feel like it was worth the money, I thought I was going to be impressed." and "I like your car MUCH better"

I absolutely concur.

I've been challenged by a 2006 330i. I had one 200lbs passenger with me and still pulled away from the 330i who had just a driver. :cool:

BMW is just a BIG SCAM that people subscribe too. Just like Coach, Rolex, Prada, etc. They play on your materialism/consumerism and charge you $15,000 for a watch that really is just a plain "watch".

But somehow people think...
"Oh my God, what a great idea, take my money. I'll slave 2080 hrs (40hrs x 52 weeks) this year so that you can take all my money and do little to nothing in exchange for it. Fabulous! Now I can look rich!" :eek:

The very first time I rode in a BMW was in 1977- when my aunt just bought a new 5 series and drove my cousin and I to school. And, even though I was only 8 at the time, I totally fell in love with BMW's- the styling, the sunroof, the safe & secure feeling I got in it, the smell of the new leather. Everything basically.

I currently own an 2005 Mazda RX-8 GMT6 fully-loaded, which I special ordered for $35.5K earlier this year. My daily commuter is a 1999 BMW 323i 5-speed, fully-loaded (minus the navi), which I bought new in 1998 for also $35.5K.

EXACT same price paid, but two entirely different cars. But, both are GREAT cars in their own ways. And, they satsify different things about driving to me.

The BMW is about solid handling, smooth shifting, luxury, feeling safe, and THE best-sounding stock premium audio system I've ever heard in any luxury car at that price- period. It's still fun to drive after all these years. And, even though it's tame, it has a touch of class. It's what I would call the best of what you could get out of a sedan- ie the boringest class amongst cars.

The 8, on the other hand, satisfies that inner childhood adrenaline rush- ie what Mazda very accurately calls the "zoom zoom." Not only does the car scream fun, it handles awesome, accelerates nicely, is one-of-a-kind unique, and really feels like an extension of your body. It is everything opposite of the boring sedan and much more. It's not about luxury or snotty image or the best of quality. (I'm sorry, but Mazda's Bose sound system pales in comparison to the BMW's- not even in the same ball park.) The RX-8 is all about the fun of driving- period. And, OMG what fun it is to drive!

My .02 anyways ;)

Its pretty simple, if you don't think the BMW is a great value, don't buy one. A car is only worth what you are willing to pay for it. You can make this argument for why is a Polo shirt worth so much more than the one I choose to buy from Walmart, why is a house that is identical to mine sell for twice as much because it is in a different neighborhood, etc...

Polo shirt worth so much more than the one I choose to buy from Walmart, why is a house that is identical to mine sell for twice as much because it is in a different neighborhood, etc...

These examples are very different when compared to a car, the most expensive depreciating asset that most people buy. A polo shirt's extra cost over a walmart shirt is too small to compare with a house or car, this is a negligible. Go buy 30 polo shirts and then 80 walmart shirts, so what's the point... NOTHING :cool: .

Location is the most important factor in a house and the design/size/characteristic of the house is worth a lot less, very-very different asset from a car. You cannot reasonable change the location of a house, but can definitely change design/size/characteristic of any house with some work and/or capital.