As i try to master heel toe on this car, i find that the pedals are positioned in a way that's rather cumbersome for heel and toe. The brake pedal is too far from the gas pedal...

However, as most performance cars (possibly all cars), i find that in this particular rx-8, w/ the brake depressed, it lines perfectly w/ the accelerator so that i can easily blip the throttle...

Now the trouble is that although heel toe on this car should be rather "easy" (for the lack of a better word), i find myself struggling w/ the pedals' shape as the front balls of my feet rest on the brake, my heel rubs on the side of the console...

What pedals are out so that the gas pedal is slightly wider and the gas pedal has a "(" shape towards the brake so that i can just rest 1/2 my foot on the gas and the other 1/2 on the gas so that i don't actually have to heel toe, and i can blip the throttle w/ my foot resting comfortably on the brake/gas?

Does anyone know which manufacturer produces "convenient" pedals?

I don't know what other cars you've driven... but these pedals are damn near perfect for heel toe even in clumsy tennisshoes....

Look at the stock accelerator... it even has a angled edge to it to facilitate heel toeing...

Buying new pedals won't automatically enable you to heel toe... its a technique that you have to work at to get perfectly smooth...

the pedals are positioned perfectly...infact. they are very close to that of a MX-5...but on a larger scale of course..

you need to know it is really ball of foot and side of foot.

beers

Uh... word. The pedal position is one of the very best I've ever driven for h&t. Like swoope said though... ball and side instead of literal heal and toe. Hope that helps.

Thanks guys. I guess i needed some constructive criticism to help me practice a little bit more. Just looking for aids though.

the reason i ask is b/c i drove a pretty well modded PRELUDE w/ a wide brake and pedal, and it was way easier than the rx-8

thanks though. I'll work at it!!

Just try not to rotate your foot as much...

Its also better to give one strong blip on the throttle... don't get too concentrated on the gas that you don't bleed off enough speed... Also be looking to be in the correct gear if possible so that heel toe is not necessary (H an T is kinda overkill in 'safe' public road driving) the improper weight transfer of a bad HnT is ALWAYS worse than spending the extra gas by downshifting earlier and nailing the correct weight transfer...

that's good news. From the advice above, i've been practicing (1/4 tank of gas), and i used the big ball of my foot on the brake, and arch area for the gas, and it seems easier. I also find that it's easier as i dont' have to rotate my foot as much.

i'm using the new Addidas goodyear sneakers (which are nice, albeit narrow), but i'm just about getting the hang of it!

NABIL, let me know on the pedal!!

also, gas is ridiculous here... $2.80 for a freaking gal of gas!!!

that's good news. From the advice above, i've been practicing (1/4 tank of gas), and i used the big ball of my foot on the brake, and arch area for the gas, and it seems easier. I also find that it's easier as i dont' have to rotate my foot as much.

i

yes you are getting it. ball of foot and the side of the arch actually. given enough practice you can do it in flip flops.

flip flops are the official shoe of fla. unless you have to go to a wedding.

it really comes down to practice, practice , practice.

beers

What about racing shoes from puma? You can feel the pedals great with those :D

I've been practicing the heel-toe downshifting often... and it's been a few weeks and I'm better at it already! :) Just a little motivation for ya.

cool beens. The puma CIRCAT or SPEEDCAT shoes are very much similar to the Addidas goodyear (tuscan) shoes!! But yea, i've been practicing, but i don't enjoy driving in sandals or anything...

given that, swoope, i bet you're a master at it if u can do it in flipflops. I'm practicing, and i can get 6-5, 5-4 is a little tricky) and 4-3 pretty well now.

But yea, i'm using ball of foot and arch!! Thanks for all the help guys... i'm truly enjoying this car!

i hope to god you are just practicing the 6to5 and the 5 to 4. or are on a track. it works the best at high revs. on the street i only ht in 3 to 2 and 2 to 1. and it is rare that i do that any more.

just not beeting up the stuff like i used to. and yes i can still do it in flops.

if it help any i ground the f out of 2nd for the first time today. damn cup in the cup holder. note to others if going to do a quick run up through the gears at least put the cup in the back spot.

beers







cool beens. The puma CIRCAT or SPEEDCAT shoes are very much similar to the Addidas goodyear (tuscan) shoes!! But yea, i've been practicing, but i don't enjoy driving in sandals or anything...

given that, swoope, i bet you're a master at it if u can do it in flipflops. I'm practicing, and i can get 6-5, 5-4 is a little tricky) and 4-3 pretty well now.

But yea, i'm using ball of foot and arch!! Thanks for all the help guys... i'm truly enjoying this car!

I think the hardest downshift is 3-2 cuz you gotta rev alot in order not to make your car stumble as you drop the clutch... hehehe.

I moved the gas pedal cover about a 1/4" closer to the brake pedal. Takes 5 mins - just remove the pedal cover, and re-attach it using different holes. They're not chamferred, but it works fine. The pedals are now positioned similarly to those in my Miata (I'm using SRP pedals in the MX5)

Be careful if you do try this: the gas and brake are now close enough that it's fairly easy to apply both at once. ;)

Cheers!

Jeff

Have you seen the Time Attack video at Laguna Seca?

If my opinion counts for anything, I think the postioning is fine.

I tend to use my big toe and/or ball of the right foot on the brake, and roll my foot round (counter clockwise) slightly so as to use the outside "rear quarter" edge of my foot on the throttle.

Cheers,
Hymee.

For a good primer on heel toe try this link
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html

Drove with my new pumas today and my rev matching was worse. These shoes have a narrower footprint, and is it still "heel-and-toeing" if i'm using just the side of my foot? I tried angling my foot in, doing a true heel-and-toe and my heel would hit the floor first.

I'll have to look into that gas pedal cover thing jeff mentioned, but I'm concerned about the longevity/strength of the cover being in a different position.

Randy

I moved the gas pedal cover about a 1/4" closer to the brake pedal. Takes 5 mins - just remove the pedal cover, and re-attach it using different holes.

There's even a DIY on this.

An alternative (WAY alternative) is to rig a hand throttle. There was a F1 driver in the late 50s, early 60s who had an artificial right leg, below the knee. Could work the gas or the brake, but not both at once. They'd rig up a motorcycle twist grip throttle on top of the gear lever for him.

Ken

gross. that's a weird place to get aids.

Drove with my new pumas today and my rev matching was worse. These shoes have a narrower footprint, and is it still "heel-and-toeing" if i'm using just the side of my foot? I tried angling my foot in, doing a true heel-and-toe and my heel would hit the floor first.

I'll have to look into that gas pedal cover thing jeff mentioned, but I'm concerned about the longevity/strength of the cover being in a different position.

Randy
The purpose of heel-toe is to match engine and wheel speed. People refer to it as heel-toe out of habbit. If you match engine and wheel speed by using the side of your foot, then you're accomplishing the goal of heel-toe, which is all that matters.

I have large feet (please no pms ladies) and in most cars use the side of my foot and just roll it onto the gas. I would have to have some wierd knee surgery or have been born with extra bones to rotate my heel onto the gas of some cars.

If you're downshifts are smooth, you're doing it right.

is it still "heel-and-toeing" if i'm using just the side of my foot?

Yes because ball 'n' arch doesn't mean much to most people!

I made a pedal extension for the gas to get the two pedals a bit closer together. It's also located slightly behind the regular gas pedal so that it's easier to use under heavy braking. I love it.

If you cant heel-toe in this car you suck.

If you cant heel-toe in this car you suck.

I can't do it - thanks for that .
Anyway I think its because my feet angle outwards naturally . I even moved the pedal over but still can't get my arch on the acc.

i'm fine heel-toeing with my normal shoes, which have a broader footprint.

I saw the diy for the gas pedal; though effective, i'm wondering if anyone here has made an actual pedal cover replacement to "fix" the situation. Knowing that the original mounting holes are smaller, chamfered, and exposed, it would mildly irritate me to be driving on it.

I can't do it - thanks for that .
Anyway I think its because my feet angle outwards naturally . I even moved the pedal over but still can't get my arch on the acc.


sorry i didnt write a novel specifying. a physical limitation like "my feet dont work like that" is different than " i just dont get it"

Its been said before the pedals in this car were basically designed for heel-toeing. If you cant do it in this car, you cant do it.

Anyway I think its because my feet angle outwards naturally . I even moved the pedal over but still can't get my arch on the acc.

My right foot angles outward. Not exactly natural, result of botched work by a quack when I was a toddler. When relaxed it angles out about 10 degrees.

I've never had trouble heel-toeing with previous cars, and I can do it with the 8. But it's not comfortable on the 8. Two problems. First, the pedals are too far apart. I need to put the ball of my foot on the right corner of the brake to bridge the gap. That gets a bit uncomfortable. Second, that downturn of the left edge of the gas pedal makes me reach far enough to push it down from above with my sole. If it was flat, I'd be able to roll the side of my foot against it like I have on most other cars.

I think I'll try moving the pedal over by one row of screws. While I have it off, I'll take a look to see how big a deal it would be to fabricate a replacement that's a little wider and does not have the bend.

Ken

It's pretty simple. If you can't, you might wanna consider the size of your shoe. Or working out your lower right leg. I had some custom made vans slip-ons made (to match my car:cool:) and they work really well.

-Cody

funny. i picked out these dark gray pumas to match my car as well, but i downshift better with my uglier wider shoes. the pumas go further in the gap b/t the gas and brake.

I've been Double clutching a downshift while rev matching as i approach a turn, sounds like a similar concept but without the breaking. I'm going to give this a try.

Hopefully my size 12 aren't too big

i dont see how "too big" is becomming a problem for people. sounds like youre not putting your feet in the right position.

I have to think that if i can heel-toe with size 14's, anyone can.

I think with me being 6'2" + feet that point outwards + having to sit forward with knees up around steering wheel due to long legs & short arms it is just really difficult ........ RHD could have slightly different pedal placement also ?????

So I ended up making my own acc. pedal today - it sits 1" closer to the brake . I'll let you know how I get on with that after the weekend racing .

gross. that's a weird place to get aids.

lol

This is one of the easiest cars to heel toe in that I have ever driven. Much of the difficulty with heel toeing as mentioned before is the outdated nomenclature. Heel toeing was a term coined when many race cars had center accelerator pedals. The easiest way to rev match was to actually use the heel and toe of one's foot. Now the perscribed easiest method is to use the ball of the foot under the big toe on the brake and the side of your foot on the throttle. This is how I was taught by my dad, a very experienced race car driver, and this is the method taught at skip barber racing school.

A couple of tips. If you are having trouble reaching the accerator with the outside of your foot move your heel under the brake so that your foot is angled. This way the outside edge of your foot extends farther to the right and can easily reach the throttle. My fiancee with her little tiny feet can easily and comfortably heel toe in this car. Also, for many its easier to swing your knee out to pivot your foot as opposed to rotating at your foot/ankle. Some cobination of the two may work better for some.

Finally, learning to double clutch is the next step. If you don't double clutch you are meerly rev matching which is benefical but does not aid in accelerating input shaft of the transmission. When you blip in neutral with the clutch out, you spool up the input shaft effectively doing the job of the synchromesh, but much better. You will be amazed at the way the shift executes with buttery smoothness. In fact, this action when performed correctly will make the shift feel light and effortless, even when the box is cold.

Hey all,
There's a post in this section somewhere about a quick and free mod to the existing gas pedal cover plate. Take the socket-head screws out (there's a nut on the back side of each one) and move the pedal over and down to the left one set of holes.

I filed off the 1/16" high bosses off the back side of the existing holes to the plate lays flat, and chamfered the edge of the three adjacent holes so the screws fit flush in the new holes. The plate is too thick to dimple the metal, so chamfer with a 1/2" drill bit. Do this step by hand, which is easy because the aluminum is relatively soft (compared to the drill bit), and hogging it out with a power drill could punch through the material pretty quick. It's about a 20 minute mod, and moves the pedal over about 1/2" toward the brake. Helps with the heel-toe work.

Only other suggestions - practice on an open -STRAIGHT- road until you get it right and then try it in the twisties, without any other cars around. No sense frightening the natives...

good job on that pedal cover brettus! looking forward to your results.

Personally I use some Pilotis (http://www.piloti.com) and they work great. I have some Pumas, but they don't seem to be reinforced in the right place, so my foot ends up slipping over the gas pedal - they provide great pedal feel though.

i drive barefoot... all prblems solved... i can barely drive with shoes on as i cant feel the pedals under my feet the same way i can barefoot.

plus we almost always wear sandals here in hawaii and i learned a LONG time ago, sandals and quick reactions with the pedals DONT work

I think with me being 6'2" + feet that point outwards + having to sit forward with knees up around steering wheel due to long legs & short arms it is just really difficult ........ RHD could have slightly different pedal placement also ?????

So I ended up making my own acc. pedal today - it sits 1" closer to the brake . I'll let you know how I get on with that after the weekend racing .

What did you use Brettus? Any DIY on this? I have to admit that solution looks a lot cleaner than my own extension. I had planned to do something like this, but I found out that the curvature of the gas pedal would be hard to mimic and so just settled on a quick and easy solution.

What did you use Brettus? Any DIY on this? I have to admit that solution looks a lot cleaner than my own extension. I had planned to do something like this, but I found out that the curvature of the gas pedal would be hard to mimic and so just settled on a quick and easy solution.

just happened to have a piece of 50x3 (2"x1/8") AL bar in my gge .

Getting the curvature was not too hard - just support it at both ends and bash with a soft face hammer a few times :)

It definately does work at lot better than stock for me - but what I've discovered is that I need to be in bare feet to do it successfully . I also need to adjust the seat back to give my legs more room to swivel without hitting the steering wheel .
May try some soft sole shoes & see how that goes.

Personally I use some Pilotis (http://www.piloti.com) and they work great. I have some Pumas, but they don't seem to be reinforced in the right place, so my foot ends up slipping over the gas pedal - they provide great pedal feel though.

I'm not really a big fan of the "lifestyle" driving shoes. They are all sort of rounded over on the sides and make me feel like I'm going to slip on the pedal. Actual racing shoes have soles that are super thin and very flat. My OMP shoes are so thin on the bottoms that they are uncomfortable to walk in the paddock in. I actually kind of hate them, and all the other driving shoes I've had because my brake pedal always gets hot in my race cars and they provide no protection. I'd wear my sneakers if they'd let me. My favorite thing to drive in: Skate shoes! They won't make it thorugh tech though lol.

BTW if you want a cheapie pair of shoes that are great for driving, SBRS actually suggests to students to get a set of cheap tyrollia bowling shoes (not like the kind you rent, they look like sneakers/driving shoes) from the sports authority, dick's etc. Although not fire proof (for some reason the race series didn't care about fire proof shoes!?!) they are pretty much dialed for driving in. They are like 30 bucks and don't look awful surprisingly.

I also need to adjust the seat back to give my legs more room to swivel without hitting the steering wheel .
May try some soft sole shoes & see how that goes.

At 6' 2", don't you have the seat all the way back already? I'm 6' even, have the seat back, and wish I had another inch.

Barefoot sounds rough. I wear soft shoes (Rockports for dress, Simpson crew for casual) and the metal pedals get a little uncomfortable with those. With my own mis-shapen leg I tend to put my foot on the corner of the pedals, not flat on the middle.

Ken

stuff deleted...

flip flops are the official shoe of fla. unless you have to go to a wedding.

more stuff deleted...

beers

Yeah, at weddings you have to break out your "dress" Sperry Topsiders.

How do you tell a tourist in Fla? They are wearing socks with their topsiders!!

I'll have to look into that gas pedal cover thing jeff mentioned, but I'm concerned about the longevity/strength of the cover being in a different position.


I originally posted that about 2 years ago - no problems to this point. I did check the screws a couple of times, just to ensure they weren't loosening up - they've stayed nice and snug.

Cheers!

Jeff

For a good primer on heel toe try this link
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html

Great read and good advice on how to start learning.

At 6' 2", don't you have the seat all the way back already? I'm 6' even, have the seat back, and wish I had another inch.

Barefoot sounds rough. I wear soft shoes (Rockports for dress, Simpson crew for casual) and the metal pedals get a little uncomfortable with those. With my own mis-shapen leg I tend to put my foot on the corner of the pedals, not flat on the middle.

Ken

He said he also has short arms. SO he has to sit uncomfortable close to have a good driving position. I have the same problem being 5' 10" -ish. I've been eyeing replacing the steering wheel with an after market one so I could extend it.