:( OK heres my theory, anyone who thinks that this is a logical possibility reply, elaborate, throw your 2 cents in.

*Let's say you were a car manufacturer and you released a new car(RX8). This is the first time the car has been designed and has a new engine design(Renesis). You offer a pretty good warranty -4 years, 48,000 miles. How can you release this car to the public, protect against warranty claims, and protect the engine's reputation, not to mention the car's and move forward smelling like a rose?

Answer: Program the computer in the car to run exceptionally rich through break-in period, this would help lubricate the engine(protect your new design). The car would obviously have bad gas mileage. If customer complaints are received, have the car taken back to the dealer for a "flash" to "update" the computer to help the problem-slightly. If no complaints are received, the programming of the computer would follow its course to run rich until a designated time, let's say possibly 5,000 miles or so then goes lean, OR throughout miles driven the car runs leaner and leaner until it is at its optimum setting(stickered gas mileage).

*Now I have seen several posts that people with higher miles on their car seem to get better gas mileage. From experience with mine, I am at 3,000 miles now-my mileage has gotten better than from day 1. I was lucky to get 11-12 mpg and now I'm getting 15-16. Ringing any bells yet? I do 100% city driving. If anyone should get the worst mileage it should be me.

*I am not an engineer, have no technical training on automobiles whatsoever-maybe this is far fetched -just using common sense and looking at the whole big picture here.

So.................what do you all think?

Oh yeah, I wish we had a formal document from MAZDA that told us what changes were being made to the computer with each flash-specifically. Rather than a TSB that is an answer to an "Engine Cranks, No Start" problem.

Theory does not hold for my car.

I have 10k miles (hit it just today .... I missed watching it roll over - darn) and my mileage has been consistently 19-20 mpg since day 1. My typical driving is 50 highway/50 city.

I calculate my mpg at every fill up, so I'm not doing any of that gas guage eyeball guestimating here.

rx8cited

RX8CITED, when was your car built??

I do too. I just hit 10K and and have been getting an average of 16MPG. However, I noticed that about 2,000 miles w/o NVRAM reset my mileage increased. But this was on a long haul from AL to CA, so any number of variables could have been introduced, especially less humid air and MUCH colder night air.

I don't know how long it takes before the '8 stops "learning" (if ever) and starts using the fuel trim settings. I haven't seen anything about it yet, but 2,000 miles seems as likely as any other number.

I'm not sure if that said anything important or not, but there it is for your consumption.

RX8CITED, when was your car built??

July 2003. I got the M-flash in April.

rx8cited

Whatever Mazda's reason, I appreciate the "M" flash. Before the flash I was getting about 15mpg in city driving, after the flash I', getting 18mpg.

Theory does not hold for my car.

I have 10k miles (hit it just today .... I missed watching it roll over - darn) and my mileage has been consistently 19-20 mpg since day 1. My typical driving is 50 highway/50 city.

I calculate my mpg at every fill up, so I'm not doing any of that gas guage eyeball guestimating here.

rx8cited

Ditto for me on mileage, but I have 20K miles now.

There was an extensive thread awhile back that collected member data and analyzed the contributing factors. As far as I can recall, mileage or vehicle age were not significant factors. The 2 significant factors were driving style and percentage of highway vs. city driving. IIRC, this was before the L or M flashes.

We're not talking about a 2 cycle engine here. Running it really rich isn't going to help the break in appreciably. A 2 cycle engine which is lubed by oil in it's fuel will benefit and require a rich break in. A 4 cycle or rotary would not. If anything, the car would "inject" more oil during the break in, or run the engine at a cooler temperature by limiting revs, or some other means. Those things would be important for break in.
Running more gas through it wouldn't. Make sense?

i got 13 MPG the first 2 tanks, complained so they 'flashed it' got 16-18 80% hwy ever since....16k miles now... Myth busted. Sorry holmes.

Nah, this MPG variance and "learning curve" for the ECU is just like Mazda's EPA excuse on the missing HP. They messed up on running too rich, that's all. Lean it out a little, problem is fixed.

I have always gotten 19 - 23 mpg. I had less than a thousand miles on it and went PA to FL and back. 21 - 23 mpg on that trip. 21 at 85 mph 23 at 70 mph. At home I drive 35 miles to work, country roads 2 small mountains to cross, 3 stop singns and 2 traffic lights. I cheat by coasting down hills but I even did a sprint to 130 mph on one tank of gas 216 miles 10.271 gallons = 21.030084704507837601012559633921 mpg. Next tank no sprint 157 miles 7.408 gallons = 21.193304535637149028077753779698. I'm happy with that mielage. I push the throttle about 1/3rd of the way to the floor and shift in first and second about 6 - 7,000 rpms fourth about 5,000 then I often go right to sixth unless on a hill. it's amazing how fast the car is at 1/3 throttle if you just let it rev. I have always found with every vehicle I have owned the difference between 1/2 throttle and full throttle is about 10% more power for 100% more fuel consumption.

I have always gotten 19 - 23 mpg. I had less than a thousand miles on it and went PA to FL and back. 21 - 23 mpg on that trip. 21 at 85 mph 23 at 70 mph. At home I drive 35 miles to work, country roads 2 small mountains to cross, 3 stop singns and 2 traffic lights. I cheat by coasting down hills but I even did a sprint to 130 mph on one tank of gas 216 miles 10.271 gallons = 21.030084704507837601012559633921 mpg. Next tank no sprint 157 miles 7.408 gallons = 21.193304535637149028077753779698. I'm happy with that mielage. I push the throttle about 1/3rd of the way to the floor and shift in first and second about 6 - 7,000 rpms fourth about 5,000 then I often go right to sixth unless on a hill. it's amazing how fast the car is at 1/3 throttle if you just let it rev. I have always found with every vehicle I have owned the difference between 1/2 throttle and full throttle is about 10% more power for 100% more fuel consumption.

Interesting. I think the emissions testing is not done at full thottle, so when the auto manufacturers tune their timing/fuel maps for full thottle- they tune for the most (safe)power and not emissions or fuel economy.
>>>personally, I think driving style does make a difference, but not near as much as the vehicle itself and driving conditions. I have an 02 Tundra (reg cab V6 auto 2wd) and an 85 RX7 (GS five speed). They both get 15mpg in normal driving, though I 'normally' drive the RX7 harder than the Tundra. The Tundra is rated 16/19 by the EPA, but rela world conditions return 15mpg in town (pretty good for a truck of this size), and 15 on the interstate (sucks- because the engine has t work too hard). In contrast my coworker's new much heavier Sequoia 4x4 V8 get 13 mpg in town and 18mpg on the interstate. The only way I can increase the mileage is to drive on 50mph country byways for long trips (yawn). I have tried driving like grand pa for entire tanks- and I get maybe 1/2 a mile per gallon boost. :-/ The real issue seems to be how inadequate, outdated and rediculous the current EPA testing is for modern traffic conditions.
-Bryan

When I first got my RX-8, I was averaging approximately 15 miles per gallon (about what I would expect according to the documentation). However, I am approaching 5,000 miles and the fuel economy has taken a dive for the worse! On a full tank, I can only cover ~220 miles!! When I first got it, it was about 300 miles on a full tank. Not to mention, I don't drive with a lead foot or rev the Renesis high like its designed to. My daily driving is about 20 miles on the highway, not too much stop and go....

Items that I took into consideration:

1. underinflated tires (confirmed that they WERE underinflated, at 25psi :not flat enough for the pressure transmitter to pick up) but I resolved that issue, no improvement

2. fluids (had my oil changed) :after my oil change, i allowed the car to warm up for about 10 minutes with a completely full tank, distinctly above the F mark....after the ten minute duration, the gage was below the F!! So that invalidates the 'underinflated tire' theory...

3. dirty air filter (inspected and cleaned)

4. this may be far fetched, but I noticed that the fuel cap does not seal like older cars, could fuel be escaping as vapor?

Notes about the vehicle:

1. Its ECM has been reprogrammed

2. 6 speed manual ; so i would expect better fuel economy

Has anyone experienced this same problem and / or have suggestions to offer ? I would really apprecite it!!

P.S. I know its a sports car and fuel consumption rate is expected to be high, but 12.5 mpg is ludicrous! Full size domestic trucks get that kind of mileage! THANKS!

220 miles / 13 gals = 17 mpg.

If you were doing 300 miles on a tank, thats 23 mpg...

I'd say you're currently getting normal mileage, and previously getting extraordinary mileage.

isnt the tank 15.9 gallons not 13???

yes, but my low fuel light comes on around 13. maybe it's different from yours.

but even if he drained his tank of all 15.9 gallons of fuel, 220 miles would still be 13.8 mpg. :)

Jason,

I'm not sure I understand what you meant by your low fuel indicator light coming on at 13 gallons. According to the Owners manual, the capacity of the fuel tank is 15.9 gallons as SantozRx8 has stated. I am basing my calculations on the 15.9 gallon value. For future reference, when the low fuel indicator light comes on, that translates to approximately two gallons of fuel left in the tank. This is just a preventative setpoint in most automobiles to keep drivers from being stranded. But with the RX-8, when that light comes on, its like a race to the gas station! Aside from the speedometer and the tachometer, the Fuel gauge is very dynamic!! I watch that gage go down as the gas price goes up!!! yikes!! Thanks for the concerns and comments! And Santoz, thanks for the clarification! I'm sure we're all happy RX-8 owners, but that 12.5 mpg really does suck doesn't it?

By the way, I failed to mention that I DO have the revision M of the firmware in the ECM.

Thanks!
Tha

The fuel gauge is only an indication of when you should fill up, not what your fuel economy is or how fast you are using gas.

Have you calculated your fuel economy by doing the below?

1) Fill the tank until the pump clicks off, then keep filling, the pump clicks off, then keep filling until the pump clicks off again.
2) Note your mileage, or reset your trip meter to 0.
3) Drive normally until the fuel gauge indicates 1/3 or less.
4) Fill up again the same way as before. Note how many gallons you have put in, and how many miles you have driven.
5) Divide the two and you have your mpg.

It sounds like you may be calculating your mileage the wrong way...

Let us know the results.

Jason,

I'm not sure I understand what you meant by your low fuel indicator light coming on at 13 gallons. According to the Owners manual, the capacity of the fuel tank is 15.9 gallons as SantozRx8 has stated. I am basing my calculations on the 15.9 gallon value.
...
but that 12.5 mpg really does suck doesn't it?I used 13 gallons for my calculations because when the light goes on, I fill up, and add (usually) 13 gallons to the tank. So if my odo shows 220 miles, I take 220 div 13, and I get a 17 mpg.

As I said, even if you used 15.9 for the amount of fuel consumed (which is close to impossible due to the way the tank works), you still can't get 12.5 mpg if you drove 220 miles before filling up.

Clearly you are miscalculating your mileage. Your car sounds normal to me.

Must be that new math I could never grasp :)

You can not accurately guage mpg by only assuming how many gallons of gas filled up. Jason, even just 13 is not accurate.

To accurately guage your mpg. This is what you do:

On your next gas fill up, Reset your trip counter. Fill your car up completely, until the first "full" click.

After you decide to fill up again(I usually wait until lesss than 1/4 tank), go to the gas station and fill the tank completely again till the first click again. On the gas station pump it should have registered how much gas you have put in the tank. I think it measured to the thousands place. My last fill up was like 13.281 (empty light came on) and the trip odometer read 242.

Now divide the mileage on the trip counter by the last gas fill up. For example, mine was 242 miles/13.281 gallons = 18.22 mpg. 18.22 mpg mixed 50/50 city/hwy driving quite aggressively. tada

Edit: I usually use my cell phone to do the calculations at the gas station.

You can not accurately guage mpg by only assuming how many gallons of gas filled up. Jason, even just 13 is not accurate.

To accurately guage your mpg. This is what you do:

On your next gas fill up, Reset your trip counter. Fill your car up completely, until the first "full" click.

After you decide to fill up again(I usually wait until lesss than 1/4 tank), go to the gas station and fill the tank completely again till the first click again. On the gas station pump it should have registered how much gas you have put in the tank. I think it measured to the thousands place. My last fill up was like 13.281 (empty light came on) and the trip odometer read 242.

Now divide the mileage on the trip counter by the last gas fill up. For example, mine was 242 miles/13.281 gallons = 18.22 mpg. 18.22 mpg mixed 50/50 city/hwy driving quite aggressively. tada

Isn't that the same as Mr M's post two spots above you?

Must have missed it. I wouldn't have bothered. My use of cell phone at the gas station to calculate the math is a good contribution though. ;)

My use of cell phone at the gas station

:eek: :eek: :eek: I hope it wasn't while you were pumping gas?

Jason,

I'm not sure I understand what you meant by your low fuel indicator light coming on at 13 gallons. According to the Owners manual, the capacity of the fuel tank is 15.9 gallons as SantozRx8 has stated. I am basing my calculations on the 15.9 gallon value. For future reference, when the low fuel indicator light comes on, that translates to approximately two gallons of fuel left in the tank. This is just a preventative setpoint in most automobiles to keep drivers from being stranded. But with the RX-8, when that light comes on, its like a race to the gas station! Aside from the speedometer and the tachometer, the Fuel gauge is very dynamic!! I watch that gage go down as the gas price goes up!!! yikes!! Thanks for the concerns and comments! And Santoz, thanks for the clarification! I'm sure we're all happy RX-8 owners, but that 12.5 mpg really does suck doesn't it?

... but what does the pump indicate for amount of gas pumped in? That's the only number that's important. Unless you drive for a long time with the low fuel light on you're probably putting in just 13-13.5 gallons as Jason mentioned... so your mileage is in the 16's, which is normal. I've yet to put in more than 14.5 gallons, and in that instance I drove 35 miles with the light on trying to find a gas station.

:eek: :eek: :eek: I hope it wasn't while you were pumping gas?

You don't believe that myth, do you?

:eek: :eek: :eek: I hope it wasn't while you were pumping gas?


How would you calculate the gas if you don't know how much gas you pumped in? So, of course it wasn't used while gas was still being pumped.

Also, using the calculator function would just be using the calculator at a gas station.

Also, no gas station has ever been proven to blow up by use of a cell phone. I don't know about other countries, but some states don't even have that law. :)

You don't believe that myth, do you?

Not really.... I chat via bluetooth headset while filling up sometimes. :D

You can not accurately guage mpg by only assuming how many gallons of gas filled up. Jason, even just 13 is not accurate.No kidding.

This guy doesn't even get the basics on how to calculate mileage, what I mentioned is accurate - you just have to use real numbers, not an example number. There is no reason to complicate things when trying to explain basics to someone.

Since they've made the seasonal switch to oxygenated gasoline, my mileage has utterly plummeted. Whereas my RX-8 previously averaged 20-25 stop-go/highway, I now see about 200 miles for the tankful. I've tried alternate brands including V-Power, but the seasonal oxygenated grade is the only thing available.

Has anyone else had a similar experience? My RX-8 has about 10,000 miles.

I can live with the seasonal lower MPG, but the reduced range is going to get me in trouble. :(

That could explain why my mileage went from 13mpg to 10.

By the way just what does oxygenated gasoline mean. How do they do that. maybe I could undo it.LOL

The oil companies are forced to add alcohol to the gas, by state law.
In the corn belt, the farmers lobby mandates that ethanol from corn be added, but elsewhere it is usually MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether).

'Good' for the environment, but bad for your wallet and mileage. They can only put about 10% in, (it separates out if you put more) so your range shouldn't be reduced TOO drastically, sounds like it is more than just seasonal gas that is affecting your '8.....
.
.
.
doc

My mpg dropped from 17-19 to 15-16 (mostly city) over the last month or two. I think another contribution factor is extended warmup times. Are you idling too long when you're warming up the car?

Hey everybody!
I'm really startled in how much gas my RX-8 is wasting. It's brand new, got it off the dealer with 11 mi. It seems as if I'm getting around 220 to 240 mi. per tank. I have the auto version. Is that right?

“Wasting” in not really the correct term. Rotaries do not use fuel the same way piston motors do. Assuming you are putting in about 13 gallons at a fillup you’re getting over 18 MPG, which is not bad for this car. I get around 19-20 it’s just something you have to live with and has been covered to death on this board. If you have a few days to kill use the search feature for terms like “ MPG”, “Gas mileage”

I get 240 pretty consistently now - 6spd here.

Hey everybody!
I'm really startled in how much gas my RX-8 is wasting. It's brand new, got it off the dealer with 11 mi. It seems as if I'm getting around 220 to 240 mi. per tank. I have the auto version. Is that right?


I got 220-240 on my first 2 tanks. Then I got the "M" flash and I can't do better than 180.

With the "L" flash I was getting 23-24 mpg but the car only ran okay in the midrange rpm's. It didnt't really wake up until 6K. However, with the "M" flash it now gets 19-20 mpg but will easily tear the rear tires up if I am not careful. Of course, I have other mods but I think the new flash will benefit most everyone. I measured a 20 hp increase at the wheels with the M.

Charles

I have an automatic. I consistantly get between 220 and 240 myself.

RX-8 has a small fuel tank - that's what you're noticing.

i get about 180-190 if im lucky i get 200 -____-

Hey everybody!
I'm really startled in how much gas my RX-8 is wasting. It's brand new, got it off the dealer with 11 mi. It seems as if I'm getting around 220 to 240 mi. per tank. I have the auto version. Is that right?

Do yourself a favor and CALCULATE the mileage based on miles travelled and fuel consumed. A "tankful" is not a precise measure of fuel used, because some people fill up at the 1/4 mark, some at the 1.8 mark, etc. The ONLY way to compare your mileage with others is to do the math.

The tank holds about 15 gallons, but you don't run it down completely. Lets say that there's 3 gallons left when you fill up, this means that your getting 18.3 to 20.0 miles per gallon, which sounds just about right.

I drove 170 miles @ ~80mph w/no AC, ambient temp was ~65 degrees outside.

Result: 18.9mph... thats 100% Highway w/no AC.

... I knew my car wouldn't break 20mph, I just knew it.

I am really wondering how some people are getting 18-20 in the city... you guys MUST be shifting at 3000rpms or something...

Or there's a lot of lemon RX-8's out there.

Actually, I do shift at 3K RPM in the city when I'm just putting around town. I've done this in all my cars, and it always gets me the best MPG.

i usually shift from 3k-4k just doing city driving and get about 17 mpg, but at higher speeds you'll get worse gas mileage...if you do your test again in the mid to high 60 mph range it should be better

I drove 170 miles @ ~80mph w/no AC, ambient temp was ~65 degrees outside.

Result: 18.9mph... thats 100% Highway w/no AC.

... I knew my car wouldn't break 20mph, I just knew it.

I am really wondering how some people are getting 18-20 in the city... you guys MUST be shifting at 3000rpms or something...

Or there's a lot of lemon RX-8's out there.

I'd bet if you drove at 60mph, you'd get well over 20mpg. Your car can get better than 20mpg, IF the driver decides he/she wants to. :)

Am cruising in 6th gear at 45mph or above. In 5th at 35mph, but I drive my car hard. Shift at 6000-7000rpm most of time unless just feeling gentle, then maybe at 4000rpm.

I drove 170 miles @ ~80mph w/no AC, ambient temp was ~65 degrees outside.

Result: 18.9mph... thats 100% Highway w/no AC.

... I knew my car wouldn't break 20mph, I just knew it.

I am really wondering how some people are getting 18-20 in the city... you guys MUST be shifting at 3000rpms or something...

Or there's a lot of lemon RX-8's out there.

yup, shifting unders 3000 rpms helps. At 2500 rpms you are using one injector. With mixed Highway and city driving I get at least 300 miles to the fulltank

amartin, try it again at @65 mph BUT do the 20 pump test to reset your ECU BEFORE the test. I believe your ECU will then start at a conservative level and get you over 22 MPG. Also, keep the shifts before you go onto hwy cruise at no higher than 3000 to 3500 rpm. When you get onto the fwy, set cruise control @65 mph and keep it set as much as you can.

shifting at 2500? you might as well get out and push, since shifting at such a low RPM is both painful and slow. I'd rather sacrifice a gallon of gas per mile so I could have my car driven the way it was intended.

God i love these mileage threads.

300 miles at 73 mph, a/c about half the time (rainy, had to defrost) - 22.5 mpg.

beatin' a dead horse again!!!!!!!!!!!
u can't afford the gas--u can't afford the car!!!!!!
Shift at 9100 and move on with your life................
G.

Nice quote r8ped

Actually, I did this calculation:

Right now, at ~8500 miles on my car (and assuming gas is $2/gallon)

At my usualy 13.5mpg, thats 629 gallons or ~1260 bucks.

If I was getting the EPA 18City I would have used 472 gallons and had spent $944 dollars... and had saved $316 dollars to date.

Sure..300 bucks isn't much... and actually, its not the $ its the fact I have to freaking stop and get gas so often.

8500 miles over how long?

less than 50 bucks a month?

yadda.

Be thankful for the mileage you're seeing, I wish I got close to that, but I'm not going to complain about it.

It's a sports car, if there weren't any sacrifices associated with owning a sports car EVERYONE would have one.

I drive around the city of Atlanta and to Augusta every 3 weeks. My average MPG is between 19.6 and 21.5. I pretty much drive however I feel like driving. I must admit, and please don't flog me for this... I bought a Turbonator for about 20$ on Ebay, and I have consistently been getting about 1.5mpg more. :eek:

I measure everytime I fill up by logging the miles and the gas put in the tank to get my numbers. I logged in about 4500miles before and about 4300miles after.

I am not saying it is worth buying, but It did make a tiny difference.... Oh yeah, I am operating on the M flash.

With the "L" flash I was getting 23-24 mpg but the car only ran okay in the midrange rpm's. It didnt't really wake up until 6K. However, with the "M" flash it now gets 19-20 mpg but will easily tear the rear tires up if I am not careful. Of course, I have other mods but I think the new flash will benefit most everyone. I measured a 20 hp increase at the wheels with the M.

Charles

You measured a 20HP increase at the wheels? :eek:

Are you sure about that?

Here we go again. I'm just trying to help amartin determine if his car is defective or not. That's it. If he follows my suggestion and gets at least 22 MPG, then his car is probably not defective.

Charles said he got 20 HP increase measured by GTech, I believe.

you guys and your econoboxes....:)
my bridge gets like 13-14!

Do yourself a favor and CALCULATE the mileage based on miles travelled and fuel consumed. A "tankful" is not a precise measure of fuel used, because some people fill up at the 1/4 mark, some at the 1.8 mark, etc. The ONLY way to compare your mileage with others is to do the math.

The tank holds about 15 gallons, but you don't run it down completely. Lets say that there's 3 gallons left when you fill up, this means that your getting 18.3 to 20.0 miles per gallon, which sounds just about right.

Yeah, listen to what w2aew is saying. You've got to calculate mileage CORRECTLY. You can't just go by range. Remember, you have to use the amount of gas used to FILL UP ALL THE WAY at the NEXT gas fill up. In addition, the tank that you just used up HAD TO HAVE BEEN FILLED ALL THE WAY during the PREVIOUS gas fill up. Otherwise, you can't correctly calculate.

Please report what you're getting. I'd like to know.

beatin' a dead horse again!!!!!!!!!!!
u can't afford the gas--u can't afford the car!!!!!!
Shift at 9100 and move on with your life................
G.Too bad you packed the car away for the winter because those corners sure are fun when you take the DSC/TC off and start hitting around 8k rpms... :D

And for those of us who live in Washington state keep in mind that we have oxygenated gasoline and will see worse gas mileage because of it. So don't expect to break the 20 mpg mark with Washington gas. I went through the same thing last year.

From the point that the pump stops from the tank being full to 10 miles after the light comes on is what I consider a tank. (13.5 - 14.0 gallons).

I set the cruz between 60-70mph in the slow lane and have got 27.5 twice and now with over 15k I got 29.3mpg. It's pretty booring but it can be done if you have patients. This is my 7th rotary and its to much fun to rev to do it more then once or twice a month.

Sure..300 bucks isn't much... and actually, its not the $ its the fact I have to freaking stop and get gas so often.


I'm with you....the mpg aren't as big a hassle as the fill ups per week. Too many empty tanks around 200 miles which means too many trips to the gas station. A bigger tank would be nice.

~ Matt

beatin' a dead horse again!!!!!!!!!!!
u can't afford the gas--u can't afford the car!!!!!!
Shift at 9100 and move on with your life................
G.

I totally disagree! Although I spend much time at the higher RPM levels, and expect my MPG to suffer, there's other people that post they can drive it like they stole and still get good MPG. I do not have one of the several cars that get 13-15 mpg, but I also (like the thread starter) have a car that can not reasonably get over 20 mpg. I do not cruise at 60 or 65, rather I cruise at 80-85, and can not break into the 20s. It's not so much that I can't afford the low MPG, I can, it's the question about should it be so low. I think not! My mpg difference between granny driving (I must admit, I've only accomplished this once or twice) and fun-style driving results in a 2 mpg difference, and this is consistent with other people here. Driving style has little effect compared to different cars. I don't know if that made too much sense, so restated, it appears some people get great MPG no matter what, some people get lousy MPG no matter what, and some people (like me) get middling MPG no matter what. Each car is consistant but there's no constistency amoung different cars. So the real point is do you want to drive it like you stole it and get good mpg, or drive it like you stole it and get lousy mpg. Of course it's rhetorical.

I totally disagree! Although I spend much time at the higher RPM levels, and expect my MPG to suffer, there's other people that post they can drive it like they stole and still get good MPG. I do not have one of the several cars that get 13-15 mpg, but I also (like the thread starter) have a car that can not reasonably get over 20 mpg. I do not cruise at 60 or 65, rather I cruise at 80-85, and can not break into the 20s. It's not so much that I can't afford the low MPG, I can, it's the question about should it be so low. I think not! My mpg difference between granny driving (I must admit, I've only accomplished this once or twice) and fun-style driving results in a 2 mpg difference, and this is consistent with other people here. Driving style has little effect compared to different cars. I don't know if that made too much sense, so restated, it appears some people get great MPG no matter what, some people get lousy MPG no matter what, and some people (like me) get middling MPG no matter what. Each car is consistant but there's no constistency amoung different cars. So the real point is do you want to drive it like you stole it and get good mpg, or drive it like you stole it and get lousy mpg. Of course it's rhetorical.

That's deep--thanks for the insight :rolleyes:

That's deep--thanks for the insight :rolleyes:

Do one of those faces to yourself.

beatin' a dead horse again!!!!!!!!!!!
u can't afford the gas--u can't afford the car!!!!!!
Shift at 9100 and move on with your life................
G.http://forums.bradbarnett.net/html/emoticons/werd.gif

I get like 210 miles per: (gas pump fill to gas light on for 5 miles). The area I live is hilly with much stop and go, and I usually shift at about 4500 (6 spd), trying to keep it at about 4 k when I'm not passing anyone.

You know I was going to throw my two cents into this topic...LOL :D

I wont say much but I wonder what a Mazda engineer, CEO, etc would pay attention to with their next update of the RX8 if they visited this site.

MORE TORQUE
BETTER FUEL ECONOMY (or at least a 17 gallon tank)
MORE HP

Now go...go Mazda...and build a EVEN BETTER RX8....

:)

Yeah, it was a 20 h.p. increase via G-Tech measurement, not dyno, but the e.t. drop was consistent with a 20 h.p. gain. That just means that there was either 20 h.p. gained at the flywheel or through more efficient driveline operation. Either way, dropping 2-3 tenths is a gain to me and the car drives a whole lot better.

Charles

You know I was going to throw my two cents into this topic...LOL :D

I wont say much but I wonder what a Mazda engineer, CEO, etc would pay attention to with their next update of the RX8 if they visited this site.

MORE TORQUE
BETTER FUEL ECONOMY (or at least a 17 gallon tank)
MORE HP

Now go...go Mazda...and build a EVEN BETTER RX8....

:)

No problem, but if I recall you don't want to pay even $30k for an RX8- how do you expect even more engineering to be put into this car for free? I for one don't want to see the RX8 follow the Miata's lead, going from an inexpensive fun car to an overpriced one. We don't need a $40k RX8- that's where the next RX7 should come in.


And to the original poster- cruising at 80mph is not going to get you the best gas mileage- 19-20mpg sounds about right for that speed. The sweet spot is around 72mph or lower, right before the secondary intake path and injectors open up (~3750rpm in 6th). However, I don't think it's worth driving in the slow lane just to save a couple of bucks in gas... that's what Camrys and Minivans are for.

its not the $ its the fact I have to freaking stop and get gas so often.
Getting colder, eh?! :D

Originally Posted by G8rboy....that's what Camrys and Minivans are for.

I always see these vehicles blocking the fast lanes all the time.

How, or even..WHY should I drive 60 or 65??

The speed limits on the highways here in Texas are 70-75mph...doing 80-85 is pretty much the "norm"

..and..shifting at 3k.. I tried it yesterday... you gotta be kidding me-- HOW can you people possibly drive shifting at 3k? Thats just silly. I watch an old woman in a wheelchair pass me shifting like that.

No problem, but if I recall you don't want to pay even $30k for an RX8- how do you expect even more engineering to be put into this car for free?

I don't want to pay that cause I don't got that type of money, but not because $30,000 is a bad price for the RX8. I think the RX8 going for $27,000-$32,000 is a great bang for the buck car.

Now, tell me cause I'm not sure...don't car companies continue to research their cars after they go on sale? So, if owners complain about the same things over and over then I think Mazda would pay attention. If I ran it...I would, but that's just me...

A bigger gas tank would cost about what? $50 or so....that's worth it
250HP & 180ft/t would cost another...what, $300-500...that's worth it also

Trust me, I don't want the RX8 to grow into the 40's because then the car would lose alot of its appeal. But, I think Mazda improveing it over time is the smart thing to do instead of just relaxing until the sales drop dead. Just my two cents...

Note: I just test drove the RX8 this past Friday and I think I understand now that shifing at 3K might not be realistic. 3.7-4K....might be, but not 3K

My first tank, I got 17 MPG city. Then again, I was shifting at 3K during the breakin period. That all ended at 600 miles. Over the Thanksgiving Holiday, took my first long highway trip. Was doing better than 80 most time (70%) and basically hovered around 90 with the occasional dash to 100-110. Got about 18 MPG. Got 19.2 MPG on one tank. Not disappointed as I was moving.

I tried to set the cruise at 68 for a full tank just to see the improvement... NO patience.. So I'll have to try minivan highway driving some other time. :)

I agree with others, MPG doesnt matter to me, the frequency at the pump does.

My next mod, a la Mad Max.

Everyone seems to forget one simple fact... mpg and hp are intertwined. IOW we are getting less fuel effeciency for the same reason that we have less hp. When we start getting better fuel economy I suspect we will be closer to the 250 propoesed hp.

Everyone seems to forget one simple fact... mpg and hp are intertwined. IOW we are getting less fuel effeciency for the same reason that we have less hp. When we start getting better fuel economy I suspect we will be closer to the 250 propoesed hp.

I'd like to check out my AFR sometime to see what kind of numbers my stock RX-8 is doing. Depending on the numbers, I may be persuaded to go the Canzoomer route...

~ Matt

I'd like to check out my AFR sometime to see what kind of numbers my stock RX-8 is doing. Depending on the numbers, I may be persuaded to go the Canzoomer route...

~ MattI'll be talking with CZ next spring. Meant to do it this year but had too many obligations on my income to follow through.

...

A bigger gas tank would cost about what? $50 or so....that's worth it
250HP & 180ft/t would cost another...what, $300-500...that's worth it also
...
Its not a matter of larger.. its a matter of real estate. The engineering required to modify existing structure and systems to accommodate the changes you mentioned make it cost prohibitive. Compromises require extensive engineering . The only way is to increase selling price.

An example: I work on the C-130 Hercules a/c. When Lockheed decided to make a new model (the J), they decided on more powerful engines. Engine cost was minute compare to the beef-up, system, fuel, wing engineering changes required to make the new engines a reality. Four new engines ($1M per times 4) made the a/c cost jump approx. $30M.

And how would they redistribute the weight? I still insist on having my 50/50 weight distribution since that was the only reason I didn't get the M3 instead. Both cars handle pretty close to the same in corners.

i tried shifting at 3000, got 14.7 mpg. explain that one? :)

How, or even..WHY should I drive 60 or 65??

The speed limits on the highways here in Texas are 70-75mph...doing 80-85 is pretty much the "norm"

..and..shifting at 3k.. I tried it yesterday... you gotta be kidding me-- HOW can you people possibly drive shifting at 3k? Thats just silly. I watch an old woman in a wheelchair pass me shifting like that.

Ok fine. Try 70 mph on cruise control for a fwy trip over 100 miles. Just do it to see if your car is defective or not. Do it once. Do it twice. And just see.

i tried shifting at 3000, got 14.7 mpg. explain that one? :)

Do the 20 pump test to reset the ECU. Then go on a distance trip on cruise. Tell us what you get. If you're still at 14-15 MPG, I'll give you a free bag of lemons.

Do the 20 pump test to reset the ECU

Can someone please explain this to me? What is this 20 pump ECU reset thing? Why does this happen, is it documented by Mazda, what are you telling the ECU when you do this?

Thanks for the help!

Can someone please explain this to me? What is this 20 pump ECU reset thing? Why does this happen, is it documented by Mazda, what are you telling the ECU when you do this?

Thanks for the help!

Maybe I am crazy but, I believe you are clearing a memory portion that among (maybe) other things stores the crank position (or something like that!) - Or was it that it clears an entire portion of the ECU's memory..? OK, I know its posted somewhere in here.

On top of that, if after pumping the brakes 20 times one of the cluster needles sweeps back and forth a few times, is indicative of a certain calibration level on the ECU. That's about all I can remember.

Maybe I am crazy but, I believe you are clearing a memory portion that among (maybe) other things stores the crank position (or something like that!) - Or was it that it clears an entire portion of the ECU's memory..? OK, I know its posted somewhere in here.

On top of that, if after pumping the brakes 20 times one of the cluster needles sweeps back and forth a few times, is indicative of a certain calibration level on the ECU. That's about all I can remember.

Pretty much correct- it was found in one of the TSB's as a way to clear the ECU's NVRAM that contains the the eccentric shaft (our equivalent to a crank's CAS info)position info:
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-007.htm

If you have the 'L' PCM calibration or higher, the OPG needle will sweep to it's high resting position and back if the NVRAM clearing is successful. I don't know if it's been proven that this resets the portion of the ECU's ram that collects driving habits and thereby determines current performance 'profile', but I noticed a difference after I got the 'L' flash and reset it in the spring... it didn't last beyond a tank though, as the ECU remembered that I like to drive fast :D.

I shift between 3500 - 4000 in everyday driving. Mileage is generally 15 - 16 overall (less than 1/2 highway). I routinely get 24 MPG on highway running 75MPH in sixth (still shifting around 4000)

Thanks for the info on the ECU pump stuff...

I drove 170 miles @ ~80mph w/no AC, ambient temp was ~65 degrees outside.

Result: 18.9mph... thats 100% Highway w/no AC.



Just completed a 750 mile trip over the holidays. Driving conditions varied from stop and go on the interstate to mile after mile of 80-85 cruising speeds. Hit over 90 a couple time passing line of trucks. Used A/C very little. Result? 21 MPG average. OAT varied from 26F to a high of 56F (dense air).

After this trip, I believe my 8 would achieve the EPA estimate of 24 if I could just cruise at 65-70 MPH.

1.3L [MT]

y talk about mpg again?! :( do u guys know.. our 8 got a even worst mpg than vette !!!!
when i told my firend the mpg of my 8 like 17mpg.. he laugh my ass off.!! so sad.. and his z06 got like 18mpg he said.. just wanna to say this world so crazy.!! hum...
let c.. a 2-hand z06 maybe a good choice..

y talk about mpg again?! :( do u guys know.. our 8 got a even worst mpg than vette !!!!
when i told my firend the mpg of my 8 like 17mpg.. he laugh my ass off.!! so sad.. and his z06 got like 18mpg he said.. just wanna to say this world so crazy.!! hum...
let c.. a 2-hand z06 maybe a good choice..


OMGWTFBBQ!!!?

That was painful to read. My eyes hurt.

English is a great language. Learn to use it.

OMGWTFBBQ!!!?

That was painful to read. My eyes hurt.

English is a great language. Learn to use it.
Spanish rocks! :D

well i filled up the tank about three or four nights ago until it clicked off. I wanted to try driving the car under 3-4 grand just to see how the MPG was and after about half a tank of the shifting at 3 grand i got sick of it and shifted at the normal 5-6. I am now 3 notches above the 1/4 mark and have only gotten 100.5 miles...now i know i was getting better milage then that when shifting at higher RPM'S so what gives with getting worse mpg? and the build date on the car was aug of 2003. thanks again guys, not too pissed off about the MPG just wondering why it would have gone down, and how in the hell i am getting absolute horrible MPG.
Robert

where you are located are you getting oxygenated gas now?

where you are located are you getting oxygenated gas now?
dont really understand the question, i am located in the burbs outside chicago.
robert

dont really understand the question, i am located in the burbs outside chicago.
robert

Then yes, we not only have 10% ethanol, we also have oxygenated winter blends... neither of which help our fuel economy.

What part of the burbs are you in?

Then yes, we not only have 10% ethanol, we also have oxygenated winter blends... neither of which help our fuel economy.

What part of the burbs are you in?
Im in western, lombard, villa park elmhurt area, you?
robert
sorry just saw where you are~

Then yes, we not only have 10% ethanol, we also have oxygenated winter blends... neither of which help our fuel economy.

Sorry for sounding like a total retard but.... what does that mean?
As you can probably tell by now, I am not exactly the most mechanically inclined person on this forum. :rolleyes:

I live in sunny Southern CA... is our fuel any different?

well i am now at the 1/4 mark on gas and i have 122.8 miles now to the full tank so far. what the fuck is the deal, i brought it up to 8500 about 5 times but still for it to drop that badly... think this is something that has to be looked at, cause i just dont understand how my mpg went to shit so fast.. oh and i only use the shell vpower in my car aswell. hope this helps some.
robert

well i am now at the 1/4 mark on gas and i have 122.8 miles now to the full tank so far. what the fuck is the deal, i brought it up to 8500 about 5 times but still for it to drop that badly... think this is something that has to be looked at, cause i just dont understand how my mpg went to shit so fast.. oh and i only use the shell vpower in my car aswell. hope this helps some.
robert

The gauge is far from accurate... so don't get too freaked out until you've finished the tank, recorded how much you put in, and divide by the tripmeter reading. I've had 120miles at the 1/4 tank point, and I've had 200miles at the 1/4 tank point... there are a ton of variables.

I always land right around 150 miles at my 1/4th mark ever since I got my car. I do mostly city driving with mostly 3k shifts, maybe about 4-5 redline runs per fillup. Using Shell V-power, build date is 6/04. 120ish at the 1/4th mark is pretty bad, I'd definitely go and raise hell about it if I were you.

Sorry for sounding like a total retard but.... what does that mean?
As you can probably tell by now, I am not exactly the most mechanically inclined person on this forum. :rolleyes:

I live in sunny Southern CA... is our fuel any different?

I don't think cali's fuel is oxygenated, might be ehtanoled. What was told to me, or what I have picked up from people trying to explain it is that in many major cities they switch blends of gas based on the seasons. Namely winter and summer. In winter, since many people let their cars warm up, and the way the engines run due to the cold temps, The gas companies and EPA oxygenate and add ethenol to gas to help keep the emissions down. This again is how I understood it when someone tried explaingin it.

All of the gas in Socal uses ethanol. I'm not sure about it being oxygenated.

I always fill up until the pump shuts off. yesterday I filled up with 125 miles on the trip odometer and it took 10.6 gallons. I would be happy if I got close to what some people here get. Just give me 15 mpg and I would celebrate. I also have the latest flash. My dealer is going to have to address this. But all said, I do love my car.

well i filled up the tank about three or four nights ago until it clicked off. I wanted to try driving the car under 3-4 grand just to see how the MPG was and after about half a tank of the shifting at 3 grand i got sick of it and shifted at the normal 5-6. I am now 3 notches above the 1/4 mark and have only gotten 100.5 miles...now i know i was getting better milage then that when shifting at higher RPM'S so what gives with getting worse mpg? and the build date on the car was aug of 2003. thanks again guys, not too pissed off about the MPG just wondering why it would have gone down, and how in the hell i am getting absolute horrible MPG.
Robert
I think I meet you once at the car wash once on St.Charles Rd. Mine was built 9/03 and I have the same problem. I'm getting about 13mpg. The last two tanks of gas, I tried to granny drive the car shifting at 3K. Didn't help at all. I'm going back to wide open throttle.

yes the light went on at 148 miles tonight and i filled it up and did the math, i got a shitty 11.5 mpg... i dont care how hard someone tries to drive the car it shouldnt get that low of mpg.. and all i was first 1/4 tank shifting under 3or4 grand and then the rest shifting around 5 or 6 and the going to 8500 about 8 or 9 times...this is bullshit....i knew it would not get the best gas milage but this is bad...im calling the dealer tomorrow and talking to the owner of the dealer since i know him.. i will let you guys know what he says.
robert

Last week acold front came in downhere in Miami and our normal 80 degree weather shotdown between 65 - 75. Cooincidently I usually average 16mpg andthis figure somehow shot up to 20 at the end of last week. I remember looking at the gauge whenit was at 3/4 full and already having 70 miles on the tank andthinking "damn the gauge must be busted."

I always drive till the gas gauge is below the last notch and got about 290 miles and filled up 14.5 gallons on this new tank. I didnt change any driving styles at all otherthen using less AC b/c of the cooler weather.

I cantthink of any other reason for why Id have a sudden jump in mileage other than the weather change. Ive tried driving around before w/the AC turned off and that never had too much of an effect.

I reallycannot explain this butI wish there were a way tomake it happen more often

Yeah i noticed a change in MPG this past week so far at 1/2 tank 150 miles

me too.. my car seems to eat less gas even though ive driven it hard this tank of gas :/ interesting to find out if theres ne truth to this or if its just in our heads o.O

well seeing that it is now in the 20's-40 here in chicago and my gas has gone down.. makes it hard to believe for me... im prob one of the few that have the shitty gas sucking 8s though. but it prob is a possibility seeing that it is used to higher temps.
robert

Your aircon usage plus the humidity in the air (more difficult for the engine to 'breathe') is the reason why your fuel consumption has increased.

So youre saying thatthis is likelythe same case for all cars down here rightnow and not just my Rx8?

well seeing that it is now in the 20's-40 here in chicago and my gas has gone down.. makes it hard to believe for me... im prob one of the few that have the shitty gas sucking 8s though. but it prob is a possibility seeing that it is used to higher temps.
robert

I can say only that my mileage is just plain strange. I have not been able to find any rhyme or reason for it either. I have tested with different octanes, and brands...but was never able to get more than 15.53mpg.

There have been a few instances, however, when without really paying attention it appeared as though I was getting significantly better mileage. Just this week, I bought gas at about 1/2 a tank. I filled it up with 8.6 gallons. When I looked to reset my trip meter, it stated 140.0 Only on two occasions have a ever had more than 105 at 1/2 and this is one of them. This comes to just over 16mpg. After the fillup, today I have driven 43 miles, and I am already more than a 1/4 down.

I believe that my mileage has taken a turn for the worse in cold weather. Being in Michigan, we have had some pretty cold weather lately. I guess it makes sense though...colder air is denser, therefore more O2 by volume...so will the ECU apply MORE fuel to compensate? In which case, there is more power? I will say that my 8 FEELS faster in cold weather....just not sure.

I took my car into the dealer last week for shakes and rattles, and the low mileage. They said that there were no open TSB's, and no error codes. So, "nothings wrong".

Sorry for the long post.....By the way, I drove a Mazdaspeed 6 on Monday. It was a very strange experience. Aside from the fact that it is extremely powerful, the feeling of the AWD system was unsettling. Apparently, the final drive gear is variable...so different ratio in the rear diff in higher gears...weird, but definately fun.

I agree. I know that sportscars are not known for there efficiency, but there is no way to drive my car and get 18-20mpg. I could have gotten a Evo8 or STI for the same money, had more power, AWD, and gotten far better mileage.....I mentioned in another post, that my dealer said "no CEL, no errors, no problem." I have 13k on my odo, and it's been the same since July when I bought it. That's right, I have driven 13000 miles in 6 months. With the price of gas in Michigan (avg 2.15pg), I have used 65 tanks of gas at the cost of $1886....in 6 months. I don't know about you guys, but spending $3600 on gas each year was not what I had in mind. If I was getting 290 per tank like many people are, I would have saved almost $600 so far. I don't know about you, but that would almost pay for my insurance for 6 months.

After receiving the new flash I am still getting 10mpg. I called the dealership and they are doing nothing. I asked them to have someone from Mazda call me but they refused and just wrote down my complaint. I again called the Mazda assistance number and they repeated that they would contact the dealership and that I need to take care of it there. I have no alternatives other then legal left. I have no way of speaking with anyone from Mazda and obviously the dealership can offer no solution. They never test the mileage, they just tell me that the computer emissions say that my mileage could not be that bad and that I would have black smoke if it was. They say they could test the mileage the old fashion way what ever they mean by that. They never do test it though. I am still waiting to hear back from them after I called yesterday. They said they will tell the rep. They have been saying that for weeks. There is no other dealership close to me. I don't think it a problem with the dealership, rather that they just don't know what to do and Mazda is not willing to offer a resolution. I f anyone has a way to contact Mazda I would appreciate knowing how. That is other then contacting their assistance center which is a dead end. They repeat over and over that they offer no technical assistance and only call the dealerships. I don’t mean to start a gas mileage discussion thread. Please don’t tell me all of your ideas about how to drive the car or check the mileage. I know how to check the mileage and even if I kept the revs at 7000 rpm constantly it should get better mileage then this. What this thread is about is how to contact Mazda.

Beats me, my best idea would ask to speak with the Regional Manager or District sales manager. Something either has to be very wrong with your ride or your math is WAY off. One time my father had a major issue with a Lincoln, he bithced and moaned enough to get the problem escalated to a District manager who reports directly to people who actually make decisions and believe it or not got everything worked out. Good Luck

I would keep at it if I were you. Far as I know, there isn't any soludion to the low mileage issue that a few RX-8s are having. If you can find others who have the same issue to also complain they may take notice, otherwise they may think you're some guy who can't calculate mileage properly.

Been following your threads for a couple of months. And unless you're a nut case with the ability to conceal it on this forum, you clearly have a legitimate complaint. Here's some advice that is worth exactly what you're paying for it.

1) If you haven't already done so, begin immediately to collect documentary evidence to support your mileage claims. This should include dated photographs of your odometer readings and dated receipts for your fuel. (Purchase a disposable camera for the purpose if necessary.)

2) If you have not already done so, begin keeping a detailed log of all phone calls and copies of all correspondence with your dealer and with Mazda. Note the facts of each call, preferably in non-emotional language, in order to add to the documentation of your case.

3) MOST IMPORTANT. Contact an attorney, preferably one with experience in product liability or even better "lemon law" litigation for automobiles. You will probably find that an attorney's registered letter to Mazda has considerably more impact than your repeated calls to your dealership and the Mazda corporate help line. If your attorney is ethical, and lawyer jokes aside, most are, he/she will attempt to protect your interests and resolve the problem at minimal cost to you.

4) Contact your state attorney general. I have no idea how active the Indiana attorney general is in dealing with consumer issues, but you may find an advocate there.

5) In general, direct your energy and frustration toward a solution to your problem. Believe me, I, and others, understand your frustration and can sympathize with your desire to blow off steam on this forum. Having said that, however, I suspect that you should focus your attention directly on a strategy to resolve your problem. Others on this forum may provide solace, but they're unlikely to be very effective in assisting you (as you've already found, I suspect.)

Good luck.

If you follow the above advice, you will find it will go far towards providing you with a good solution.

The alternative (and given your problem I'd say it's not too unethical) would be to drain about 3.5 quarts of oil from your engine, run the hell out of it until it dies, then put that same oil (used and brown) back in the engine, then call MAZDA and have them "fix" your engine. :D

Please don't do what I just said, but it sure makes you pissed off when they don't address a real problem like yours. Documentation and a good lawyer will go a LONG ways towards Mazda helping you out.

Howard, email me and let me know if that phone number I gave you was of any use.

Trevor

Howard's problem is only slightly worse than mine. Mine was built about the same time also ( if I remember correctly). I get 13 mpg. Now about the oil. When the oil level gets low, a indicator light comes on. This might send a error condition to the ecu which could be read later. I wouldn't try to kill an engine that way.

jsh1120, that's the best advice I think I've read here so far! It only figures you're several years and 1 day older than me. ;) That means you've been around the block a few times more than me. Experience is the best knowledge gained, isn't it? Right on! (and, nice avatar.)

Howard, do that stuff there. It really isn't a lot of trouble. A solution should come if you do.

Howard...

I work with insurance adjusters, field adjusters, and insurance companies working in the claims department at my job. What jsh1120 told you is right on the money. What you are trying to do is prove your case...ranting without proof does not go very far (not that you are doing that I think you have a real problem engine/car and you are just shareing, thanks for doing so) I"m just saying that you really have to start documenting this.

It does you no good to say it and not have anything to back it up. Here is what I suggest regarding what jsh1120 said.

Not only are you going to take pictures of the miles on the car & fuel receipts but also ask someone else to drive your car around town. If they also get 10mpg then they can't blame your style of driving or something like that.

To top it all off...while your doing the test take video of it. This is alot of work, time, and some money wasted (plus some miles on your car) but you are at a point where you need to document this and make it a FACT not your opinion.

So, take pictures
Let at least 2 other people (3 total with yourself) drive the car to see what miliage they get
Take video of this test so there is no way they can say that you were REVing the car to hell

If I was in your area I would love to do this test with you (ha ha, I would get to drive an 8 for a few hours...LOL) since I think you have a lagit and worthy complaint.

Oh yeah, since alot of people say the RX8 somehow looks like the Viper...you might want to remind the dealer that it aint a VIPER...and if it was it would get 12MPG in the city and not 10!!!!!!

Good luck!

Been following your threads for a couple of months. And unless you're a nut case with the ability to conceal it on this forum, you clearly have a legitimate complaint. Here's some advice that is worth exactly what you're paying for it.

1) If you haven't already done so, begin immediately to collect documentary evidence to support your mileage claims. This should include dated photographs of your odometer readings and dated receipts for your fuel. (Purchase a disposable camera for the purpose if necessary.)

2) If you have not already done so, begin keeping a detailed log of all phone calls and copies of all correspondence with your dealer and with Mazda. Note the facts of each call, preferably in non-emotional language, in order to add to the documentation of your case.

3) MOST IMPORTANT. Contact an attorney, preferably one with experience in product liability or even better "lemon law" litigation for automobiles. You will probably find that an attorney's registered letter to Mazda has considerably more impact than your repeated calls to your dealership and the Mazda corporate help line. If your attorney is ethical, and lawyer jokes aside, most are, he/she will attempt to protect your interests and resolve the problem at minimal cost to you.

4) Contact your state attorney general. I have no idea how active the Indiana attorney general is in dealing with consumer issues, but you may find an advocate there.

5) In general, direct your energy and frustration toward a solution to your problem. Believe me, I, and others, understand your frustration and can sympathize with your desire to blow off steam on this forum. Having said that, however, I suspect that you should focus your attention directly on a strategy to resolve your problem. Others on this forum may provide solace, but they're unlikely to be very effective in assisting you (as you've already found, I suspect.)

Good luck.
I have already started this process and it is very good advice. Unfortunately I did not document the mileage in writing up until a couple of weeks ago. I do have copies of the service orders and the dates of phone calls etc. The dealership called me a few minutes ago. They want me to empty my car as far down as I can of gas and then they are going to rent me a car for a week to document the mileage issue. This is a good thing. Mazda told them they did not believe anyone could get low mileage like I am talking about. I really don't want to get an attorney. I am on a fixed income and I don't think attorneys will handle these cases on contingency. I would hope Mazda can solve the problem, whether they have to replace the computer, the engine, or the car. I really like this car and I believe Mazda has done a wonderful job in engineering it. I would hope that Mazda will be able to provide as good of support as they have a vehicle. I don't drive a lot of miles so it may be a week or so before I can take it in. I guess that venting on this forum is exactly what I was doing. I would hope that anyone could do that here. The issue needs to have the emotions taken out of it when dealing with Mazda. I really don't want to alienate them. I am just frustrated with the process and concerned that they won't offer a solution. I have dealt with many companies in my life over product and service issues and I have found that more then half the time they are worked out satisfactory. I have never had a problem with a product this costly before and that makes it a little more worrisome. I appreciate those of you on this forum that have listened to my ranting and have given positive advice. As for those who are more critical, well they have the right to say what ever they want also. I think the fact that there are venues like this to discuss something we all value so much is great.

Howard, have Mazda ever denied your mileage, or just not bothered testing for high fuel consumption at all?

Whatever, I don't think you want legal action, you just want your car fixed. Right?

Send a letter to Mazda stating your problem, how you measured the fuel economy, what correspondence you have already had with Mazda, and threaten legal action if they don't solve the problem.

In the meantime, drive your car as much and as hard as you can, and enjoy it. No use loosing hair over something you cannot do anything about yourself...

it seems none of the techs who looked at the car ever tried to document the milage at all. they checked for codes in the pcm, of which there were none, and since everything else "seemed" to be within normal parameters they performed a re-flash with the most recent flash. they wanted him to drive like that to see if the milage improved at all.

howard have you noticed any power loss in general or at higher rpms? have you had any Check Engine Lights?

it seems none of the techs who looked at the car ever tried to document the milage at all. they checked for codes in the pcm, of which there were none, and since everything else "seemed" to be within normal parameters they performed a re-flash with the most recent flash. they wanted him to drive like that to see if the milage improved at all.

howard have you noticed any power loss in general or at higher rpms? have you had any Check Engine Lights?


That is exactly what they have done to date. That is after 4 appointments. I don't seem to have any power loss or anything, however i have always had the low mileage so I wouldn't really notice any different. I really don't rev it high very often. Most is usually 5000 or 6000. I did take it to redline last week just for the heck of it. Anyhow I really have never seemed short of power. I am wondering why the dealership wants my car for a week to test milage. I know they have electronic equipment to do so and it shouldn't take a week. I hate to drive some rental car for a week and be without my RX*. I know most of you can understand that.

Howard iif i were you i would go ahead and let them take the car for a little while to verify the mileage- on one condition. that being that they drop your ehaust and take a look at the inside of your catalytic conveter. i believe they might find something wrong with it.

My solution would be to have them replace the engine.....if they contunue to ignore tham, stand outside their dealership on a saturday with a big f*cking sign that states:

"This dealership is the worst I've ever delt with, ask me why".

I did something like that once when a dealer wouldn't own up to a promise. It took les than an hour for the general manager to come out and delever what they promised. They don't like seeing new customers talking to mad customers.

My solution would be to have them replace the engine.....if they contunue to ignore tham, stand outside their dealership on a saturday with a big f*cking sign that states:

"This dealership is the worst I've ever delt with, ask me why".

I did something like that once when a dealer wouldn't own up to a promise. It took les than an hour for the general manager to come out and delever what they promised. They don't like seeing new customers talking to mad customers.

I think I would get arrested for not having permission or something. I don't think they are going to check the converter or anything else until thry varify the mileage is low. They tell me it can't be and Mazda doesn't believe it as the emisssions are fine. They won't do anything else until they can varify that the mileage is low. After that if they don't fix the problem I will have it checked at a independent garage. The milelage that is. Then I'll go from there.

Believe me I know how all of this works. My father was a service manager for 40 years.

Can you go to a different dealership?...these guys, for whatever reason are not doing there job. It's possible that they have put you on "ignore until he goes away mode" that some dealerships use to solve problems that they can't fix.

Cal Mazda Corporate.....and talk to someone that can help you. Don't let them give you the runaround....

at this point you need to let them verify the mileage. they need to see it for themselves. offer to pay for it if you have to but get them to look at the cat

Damn, thats bad . I guess I should be VERY thankful. I'm averaging 19 t0 20 MPG on a tankful. :eek:

at this point you need to let them verify the mileage. they need to see it for themselves. offer to pay for it if you have to but get them to look at the cat
I'll have them check the cat. It will probably be sometime next week before I can get my gas down to where they want it. at is unless I syphon itoff. LOL On the bright side we are suppose to get 5-8 in of snow by the first of the week and I can try out my Pirrilli Snowsports. Maybe I'll take of the DSC and look for a big parking lot like when I was a kid.

So how many miles do you get from a tank?

Vince

So how many miles do you get from a tank?

Vince


About 140 if I take it down that far.

at this point you need to let them verify the mileage. they need to see it for themselves. offer to pay for it if you have to but get them to look at the cat

I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is getting silly Howard, you want them to fix the problem but you won't give them your car??????? If you are so informed about this industry, then why is a week for a fuel economy test so strange??? You tell me, how else can you carry out a test and get reasonably accurate results?

Give them the car!!!! And don't complain when it comes back with an extra 200 miles on the clock, they have to d-r-i-v-e the car to test the fuel economy.....

Sheeeezz!

:eek:

About 140 if I take it down that far.
Damn! That's very bad and your not crazy!

Vince

Just a quick note if you haven't given the car to them yet; take a photo of the odometer reading!!! That way when you get it back a week later you can see exactly how many miles they've put on the car "testing" it. If it comes back with 10 more miles on it then you know they didn't do much but take it around the block a few times and park it. It should come back with at least 100 more miles on it; in fact they should drive it a full tank's worth of gas to test it properly.

My solution would be to have them replace the engine.....if they contunue to ignore tham, stand outside their dealership on a saturday with a big f*cking sign that states:

"This dealership is the worst I've ever delt with, ask me why".

I did something like that once when a dealer wouldn't own up to a promise. It took les than an hour for the general manager to come out and delever what they promised. They don't like seeing new customers talking to mad customers.

I was thinking along those lines, but maybe something a little more subtle. Go browse the lot while a couple of prospective customers are there, preferably looking at RX-8 with a salesperson. Interrupt the salesperson and ask if they can do anything to help you get some action since you can't get more than 10mpg and the service department is stonewalling you. Don't need to shout or be rude, just honestly ask for their help and make sure the prospectives can hear you. Nothing like souring a couple of potential sales to light a fire under their butts. May or may not work, but it's ethical and you don't "need permission" :)

well the past two tanks of gas have been horrible, 11/.5 and now 10.8! i made an appointment tomorrow and the car will be there at 8 in the morning. I am also haveing them look at the front headlight cause of the film inside them and the back brake lights have condensation in them at times... fun fun fun i will let you al know how it goes!
RObert

Don't take it to Wilkins. I have learned from previous posts that you live in the same area as I do. I took mine there for my MPG problem (13 mpg). I was told to wait untill the car reaches 10 - 15 K miles and the mileage would improve. I don't thing anyone knows why certain 8's get poor or good mileage.

you're not spending an excessive amount of time sitting in traffic are you?

This fuel economy thing is an important issue, or so it seems from this website, that Mazda needs to address. If this happens at all (and is not driver or conditions related) on any RX8 Mazda really needs to pay attention.

This is not the first, nor the last post about this issue. Anyone getting 13-10 mpg needs to scream and complain until something is done. Like I've told Howard, document your problem with pictures, recepits, video, and other drivers driving your car or else they are just going to make excuses for the problem.

Good luck, I hope the day I get a RX8 I can get at least 17/23 because 13/18 SUCKS!!!!!

warm your cars up people makes a humongous difference, and warming up isnt the revs getting back down to normal idle, wait till that temp guage makes it way to normal operating temperature.

Im getting 11.8 +/- since i got the car. I only have 2.5k miles on it, but I dont think having to warm a car up FULLY before drive acceptable, I dont have time for that. I let it get the oil circulating for 30 sec. and I go.

I wish they would figure this out. Im only getting 150 miles to the tank :mad: !!

warm your cars up people makes a humongous difference, and warming up isnt the revs getting back down to normal idle, wait till that temp guage makes it way to normal operating temperature.


You are suggesting letting the car sit, running for 10-15 minutes in one's driveway before driving off as a way to conserve fuel? First time I've heard that; do you have any data to show?

:)

You are suggesting letting the car sit, running for 10-15 minutes in one's driveway before driving off as a way to conserve fuel? First time I've heard that; do you have any data to show?

:)


5 minutes is usually plenty to get it into the beginning of the normal range, you'd be surprised. i ran basically cold when the weathe got cold and got 145 miles out of the tank (10.7mpg blech), but then i decided to be patient with the car and let it warm up on these cold days and got 225 miles (16.6mpg) from the same mix of 95% city driving...plus the real bonus, not having to sit shivering in a car while the heater warms up. so it isnt quite 18 mpg but its still a lot better than the 10.7 i was getting before.

5 minutes is usually plenty to get it into the beginning of the normal range, you'd be surprised. i ran basically cold when the weathe got cold and got 145 miles out of the tank (10.7mpg blech), but then i decided to be patient with the car and let it warm up on these cold days and got 225 miles (16.6mpg) from the same mix of 95% city driving...plus the real bonus, not having to sit shivering in a car while the heater warms up. so it isnt quite 18 mpg but its still a lot better than the 10.7 i was getting before.


I'll give it a shot on my next tank :) thanks!


btw, I'm wondering if some of the fuel issues are the result of the throttle-by-wire system...seems plausible the computer could be messing up the amounts of gas injected relative to the position of the pedal. Could explain the drastic differences between cars. Seems easier to believe than actual differences in the motor between cars, no?

You are suggesting letting the car sit, running for 10-15 minutes in one's driveway before driving off as a way to conserve fuel? First time I've heard that; do you have any data to show?

:)

I've seen the opposite effect -- especially when temps are down low like this morning. Letting it idle at 10F for 15 minutes won't bring it up to operating temp, and is just wasting fuel... and the renesis seems to run very rich at during warm up at idle. The worst mileage I had was last February, trying to let the car warm up to take my daughter to school when it was way below zero (~-15F) out every morning for a week straight, which netted me about 13mpg. The temp needle never budged just sitting there idling at those temps.

My advice is to let it idle for a minute or less, then drive it mildly for 5-10 minutes to bring it up to temp faster and the rotary into it's 'happy zone'.

I'll give it a shot on my next tank :) thanks!


btw, I'm wondering if some of the fuel issues are the result of the throttle-by-wire system...seems plausible the computer could be messing up the amounts of gas injected relative to the position of the pedal. Could explain the drastic differences between cars. Seems easier to believe than actual differences in the motor between cars, no?

i think it has a lot to do with two things...the ECU learning process and the wiring in the MAF sensor.

This is one reason I decided not to get a '04 model. Not sure that's valid, but I want the latest version of everything. This kind of gas milage for a car of this weight is simply atrocious.

btw, I'm wondering if some of the fuel issues are the result of the throttle-by-wire system...seems plausible the computer could be messing up the amounts of gas injected relative to the position of the pedal. Could explain the drastic differences between cars. Seems easier to believe than actual differences in the motor between cars, no?

I think you're on the right track, but instead I think differences in the MAF sensor might be to blame (CanZoomer has noted that there are big differences between cars that have installed his CZ piggyback). I think some of the MAF's might be sending falsely high AF readings, making the ECU dump more fuel in than needed. It would be an interesting experiment to swap MAS units between cars with crappy mileage and normal mileage to see if that makes a difference.

yeah brought the car in today, last week on the phone they said it was due to the car not having over 1000 miles on it yet. Then i told them well the car has 1800 miles on it and they said nothing. Today they said it was cause the car had below 3000 miles and had not had its first oil change. What it gods name does the oil change have to do with my gas milage? for one i have been adding oil to it so it isnt like the oil has not even been touched. and second it has nothing to do with that shit. Then he asked how i drive, i told him it didnt matter if it was 8grand or 4 grand when shifting, i was getting the same MPG. Then he had the audacity to ask me did i buy the car for good gas milage...haha i laughed and said no, and said to him but when a car is getting 8 miles less to the gallon something is wrong. he said it was cause off the gas and it being winter. I tell him i put in vpower, well most car get bad milage in the winter, and i ask again 7 miles less to the gallon then normal?? and has no response. I feel i am going to be writing a letter of some sort to mazda. If the service manager is goign to keep trying to blow smoke up my ass then im going to, before that though im going to the owner of the dealership because he is a family friend. And if he cant get it done then i will keep goign higher up the ranks. I mean if i was getting like 16 miles to the gallon that could show that i drive hard once in a while, but 10.8??i should be getting almost 80-100 more miles with the amount of gas the car is using.
Thanks guys i just had to vent about this.
Robert
P.S. i notice if i sit in the driveway when the car is cold in the morning and let it sit for a while running it eats a shit load of gas. So nothing is really working for me.

yeah brought the car in today, last week on the phone they said it was due to the car not having over 1000 miles on it yet. Then i told them well the car has 1800 miles on it and they said nothing. Today they said it was cause the car had below 3000 miles and had not had its first oil change. What it gods name does the oil change have to do with my gas milage? for one i have been adding oil to it so it isnt like the oil has not even been touched. and second it has nothing to do with that shit. Then he asked how i drive, i told him it didnt matter if it was 8grand or 4 grand when shifting, i was getting the same MPG. Then he had the audacity to ask me did i buy the car for good gas milage...haha i laughed and said no, and said to him but when a car is getting 8 miles less to the gallon something is wrong. he said it was cause off the gas and it being winter. I tell him i put in vpower, well most car get bad milage in the winter, and i ask again 7 miles less to the gallon then normal?? and has no response. I feel i am going to be writing a letter of some sort to mazda. If the service manager is goign to keep trying to blow smoke up my ass then im going to, before that though im going to the owner of the dealership because he is a family friend. And if he cant get it done then i will keep goign higher up the ranks. I mean if i was getting like 16 miles to the gallon that could show that i drive hard once in a while, but 10.8??i should be getting almost 80-100 more miles with the amount of gas the car is using.
Thanks guys i just had to vent about this.
Robert
P.S. i notice if i sit in the driveway when the car is cold in the morning and let it sit for a while running it eats a shit load of gas. So nothing is really working for me.

You should look for another dealer... I don't know what can be done, but their apathy is a dead-end. If you could talk a dealer into letting you try a new MAF out for a tank I'd be very curious of the result. We're in the same area (same weather/temp), using the same blends and brand of gas, and I'm gettin ~16mpg in all city, fairly agressive driving so far this winter... that's a pretty big delta between our results. I also have a 60lb speakerbox in my trunk, and I'm not exactly skinny :).

What is your approx Vin#, if you don't mind sharing?

You should look for another dealer... I don't know what can be done, but their apathy is a dead-end. If you could talk a dealer into letting you try a new MAF out for a tank I'd be very curious of the result. We're in the same area (same weather/temp), using the same blends and brand of gas, and I'm gettin ~16mpg in all city, fairly agressive driving so far this winter... that's a pretty big delta between our results. I also have a 60lb speakerbox in my trunk, and I'm not exactly skinny :).

What is your approx Vin#, if you don't mind sharing?

I don't think the vin numbers and date built are necessarily the issue. My car was built in 9/03 and I have not experienced the flooding issues or ridculously low gas mileage. (Avg 19) My 8 has all the recent updates and so far/so good. I beleive there is something going on with some cars (possible defect in something) that is causing people to get 10-13 MPG. I have a question for people with bad gas mileage, is there a great deal more smoot on your tailpipes than should be expected? If so, IMO the car is pumping more gas into the engine than it is actually burning effeiciently. I'm not a mechanic, but just my thoughts.

I don't think the vin numbers and date built are necessarily the issue. My car was built in 9/03 and I have not experienced the flooding issues or ridculously low gas mileage. (Avg 19) My 8 has all the recent updates and so far/so good. I beleive there is something going on with some cars (possible defect in something) that is causing people to get 10-13 MPG. I have a question for people with bad gas mileage, is there a great deal more smoot on your tailpipes than should be expected? If so, IMO the car is pumping more gas into the engine than it is actually burning effeiciently. I'm not a mechanic, but just my thoughts.
I have black on the tailpipes, but i thought that people on here were saying that this was normal for the 8's. I just want the car to get fixed, i mean this is bad, and i dont even have anything in the trunk. it is just be driving around!
Robert

my car has black icky smoot on the pipes too - I got 17.8 w/ my first tank, 15.8 on my second. So far my third seems to be closer inline with my 1st, after 3/8 tank.

I mentioned this on another thread, but hadn't heard anything - so: I seem to recall that replacing the thermostat on the RX-7 (from 170 to 190) would increase the mileage (w/ a slight performance hit). Just curious as the whether some type of modification on the 8 might have similar consequences (at least in cold weather letting the engine warm up quicker).

Just a thought...

I don't think the vin numbers and date built are necessarily the issue. My car was built in 9/03 and I have not experienced the flooding issues or ridculously low gas mileage.
Same here with the 9/03 build. I usually get about 17 mpg with suburb driving(I don't know if that's what they mean by city driving, but when I think of city i picture driving around in traffic stopping every 30 seconds) Also, I always rev it before I shut it off and have never had a flooding problem

I have black on the tailpipes, but i thought that people on here were saying that this was normal for the 8's.

That's normal for every car

(sorry I don't know how to quote two different posts in one)

I don't think the vin numbers and date built are necessarily the issue. My car was built in 9/03 and I have not experienced the flooding issues

how do you know that your car was never flooded before you owned it?

brilliantblack check your pm's

Same here with the 9/03 build. I usually get about 17 mpg with suburb driving(I don't know if that's what they mean by city driving, but when I think of city i picture driving around in traffic stopping every 30 seconds) Also, I always rev it before I shut it off and have never had a flooding problem

Ditto on the 09/03 build date. ;) I thought it was just coincidence. No flooding, good gas mileage;16-19.5 mixed until this tank. It's going to be under 14; when I actually took 10 mins out of the every morning to warm it up. I will resume with the 2 min warm-up next tank and hopefully go back to "normal"

yeah brought the car in today, last week on the phone they said it was due to the car not having over 1000 miles on it yet. Then i told them well the car has 1800 miles on it and they said nothing. Today they said it was cause the car had below 3000 miles and had not had its first oil change. What it gods name does the oil change have to do with my gas milage? for one i have been adding oil to it so it isnt like the oil has not even been touched. and second it has nothing to do with that shit. Then he asked how i drive, i told him it didnt matter if it was 8grand or 4 grand when shifting, i was getting the same MPG. Then he had the audacity to ask me did i buy the car for good gas milage...haha i laughed and said no, and said to him but when a car is getting 8 miles less to the gallon something is wrong. he said it was cause off the gas and it being winter. I tell him i put in vpower, well most car get bad milage in the winter, and i ask again 7 miles less to the gallon then normal?? and has no response. I feel i am going to be writing a letter of some sort to mazda. If the service manager is goign to keep trying to blow smoke up my ass then im going to, before that though im going to the owner of the dealership because he is a family friend. And if he cant get it done then i will keep goign higher up the ranks. I mean if i was getting like 16 miles to the gallon that could show that i drive hard once in a while, but 10.8??i should be getting almost 80-100 more miles with the amount of gas the car is using.
Thanks guys i just had to vent about this.
Robert
P.S. i notice if i sit in the driveway when the car is cold in the morning and let it sit for a while running it eats a shit load of gas. So nothing is really working for me.

what? the dealer said the mileage is bad because you haven't changed oil yet? if you speak to this guy again, tell him my 8 has had two oil changes already and it only has a little over 2200 miles. my last tank got 16 mpg, just a little less than my normal 17mpg. i'm the one changing my oil too because i've heard stories on this forum and it's easy enough to do it myself.

good luck and report back.

yamajj

I just filled up today 150 mi. /14.5 gal. I have let it warm up on these colder days. I have 7K miles on the car. All tsb's have been taken care of. I would be willing to try a new MAF. I can't think what else it could be. Its not a bad cat, that was replaced back in September. By the way, mine is a 9/03 build. Purchaced 06/04.

Also, my daily commute is 15 mi each way. 10 mi is expressway/tollway.

The gas mileage issue really is the bummer for me with the 8, an otherwise great car. I don't mind the lack of torque so much (made worse by the fact that I got the A/T, so I get what I deserve :) ) but I get like 12-13 MPG in the city and for weight of the car and the power of the engine, that's really weak.

I don't think the vin numbers and date built are necessarily the issue. My car was built in 9/03 and I have not experienced the flooding issues or ridculously low gas mileage. (Avg 19) My 8 has all the recent updates and so far/so good. I beleive there is something going on with some cars (possible defect in something) that is causing people to get 10-13 MPG. I have a question for people with bad gas mileage, is there a great deal more smoot on your tailpipes than should be expected? If so, IMO the car is pumping more gas into the engine than it is actually burning effeiciently. I'm not a mechanic, but just my thoughts.

It may, and it may not... I also have a 9/03 build. I'm just curious if his is a later build...

The tailpipe smoot has more to do with the rotary consuming oil in it's combustion cycle than running rich. I have seen a direct correlation between hard driving=>oil consumption=>extra smoot, and light driving=>low oil consumption=>light smoot. Much of the excess fuel is used to keep the cat cool.

Same here with the 9/03 build. I usually get about 17 mpg with suburb driving(I don't know if that's what they mean by city driving, but when I think of city i picture driving around in traffic stopping every 30 seconds) Also, I always rev it before I shut it off and have never had a flooding problem

Suburban driving is a better description- when I say city (the term the govt uses) I mean stop lights, changing gears, accelerations and decelerations- unlike highway with a constant speed/rpm.

warm your cars up people makes a humongous difference, and warming up isnt the revs getting back down to normal idle, wait till that temp guage makes it way to normal operating temperature.
That's the opposite of what Mazda suggests.

In one of their pamphlets (or the owner's guide don't remember which) they tell you to help improve mileage you should just let the car run until the engine settles then drive. That's what I've been doing recently. Let the engine settle a bit, then drive at < 3.75K rpm until the engine warms up.

The first thing I'd check, after a quick OBD check of course, is the catalyst. If it is clogged or melt down, you'll get low performance and awful mileage.

Also, find a new dealer. A good one this time.

The first thing I'd check, after a quick OBD check of course, is the catalyst. If it is clogged or melt down, you'll get low performance and awful mileage.

Also, find a new dealer. A good one this time.

Wouldn't a CEL come on if the Cat was going bad. Wouldn't some reading be off?

A CEL will come up if it does not convert properly anymore, based on the upstream HEGO sensor. It might be clogged, but perfectly convert the exhaust gases going through.

Does your car feel slow and reluctant to rev under load?

A CEL will come up if it does not convert properly anymore, based on the upstream HEGO sensor. It might be clogged, but perfectly convert the exhaust gases going through.

Does your car feel slow and reluctant to rev under load?

I dont think so. But I am getting horrible gas milage (11.8 +/-)

The way I drive isn't what I would concider grandmama style. I dont floor it off the line often. Most the time i shift around 4-5k - sometimes 6k. get on it 3-5 times a day hard. By that I mean 7k-9k in gears 1 and 2 primarily.

Is this considered bashing it. I dont know. Doesn't seem that way. I also tend to blip the throttle at idle at red lights b/c Im not a big fan of the vibration at idle. I only really do in city driving and mostly stop and go.

I'd like to know what kind of driving people do vs. their MPG.

how do you know that your car was never flooded before you owned it?

brilliantblack check your pm's

My manufacture date on the door says 9/03, I purchased the car new in 10/04 w/20 miles on it. Whether it flooded before I got it, I can't say. I did however get the CEL and that's is when they did the M-Flash. The CEL came on the day I drove it home and I had the flash done 5 days later.

FYI...They also changed my CAT because they said it was failing. Everyhting has been OK since.

Hard driving should still get you 17MPG. I think the worst I ever got was 16 something. Usually average 17.5 with 50/50 city/highway driving and plenty of high RPM shifting.

I have black on the tailpipes, but i thought that people on here were saying that this was normal for the 8's. I just want the car to get fixed, i mean this is bad, and i dont even have anything in the trunk. it is just be driving around!
Robert The black on the tailpipes is normal, but I'm saying if it appears more than normal. The first week I drove my car before the M-Flash and CAT were updated/replaced, the smoot was heavy. It's been more subtle now.

Regarding the black on the tailpipes, someone a yesterday or so said he Zaino'ed the inside of the tailpipes and the black buildup didn't come back

I think you're on the right track, but instead I think differences in the MAF sensor might be to blame (CanZoomer has noted that there are big differences between cars that have installed his CZ piggyback). I think some of the MAF's might be sending falsely high AF readings, making the ECU dump more fuel in than needed. It would be an interesting experiment to swap MAS units between cars with crappy mileage and normal mileage to see if that makes a difference.
If it was an issue like this wouldn't it show up on emissions output when the computer shows that. At least that is what my service dept tells me.

I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is getting silly Howard, you want them to fix the problem but you won't give them your car??????? If you are so informed about this industry, then why is a week for a fuel economy test so strange??? You tell me, how else can you carry out a test and get reasonably accurate results?

Give them the car!!!! And don't complain when it comes back with an extra 200 miles on the clock, they have to d-r-i-v-e the car to test the fuel economy.....

Sheeeezz!

:eek:
I never said I would not let them have the car. I just said it seemed a week was a long time. 30 years ago they had equipmet that would test mileage in a day. I had arranged to take the car in when I am out of gas as they asked.

If it was an issue like this wouldn't it show up on emissions output when the computer shows that. At least that is what my service dept tells me.


Not sure... I don't know if it would since the readings aren't necessarily out of range when tested, just too high for a given airspeed. Since I don't have a CZ unit I'm not as up to speed on the tuning differences because of the MAF... I think I'll read up on this more, and play with with my CanScan to compare readings.

If it was an issue like this wouldn't it show up on emissions output when the computer shows that. At least that is what my service dept tells me.

no the extra fuel is burning just in the cat instead of the engine. so its clean as far as emissions tail pipe sniffers are concerned.

My manufacture date on the door says 9/03, I purchased the car new in 10/04 w/20 miles on it. Whether it flooded before I got it, I can't say. I did however get the CEL and that's is when they did the M-Flash. The CEL came on the day I drove it home and I had the flash done 5 days later.

FYI...They also changed my CAT because they said it was failing. Everyhting has been OK since.


the most common reason we are seeing for failed cats is previous flooding. your car was probably flooded in port or when it was first moved around the dealer.

The first thing I'd check, after a quick OBD check of course, is the catalyst. If it is clogged or melt down, you'll get low performance and awful mileage.

Also, find a new dealer. A good one this time.

exactly. the problem is geting the service people to drop the exhaust and actually look in the cat without a cel code. personal opininion- if it were me and i was having this kinda mileage i would offer to pay for the labor to have them actually look at the cat if it turned out to be ok. of course i'd want a look at it myself too.

Wouldn't a CEL come on if the Cat was going bad. Wouldn't some reading be off?

no at least one i know of did not throw any cel but the catalyst was litterally falling apart inside. the little bits that were crumbling off of it were clogging the airflow but not in a way that would cause the sensor to know about it. i wish i had pics. ill see if i can get some.

When I first got my 8 I was getting 15+mpg.. At the 2000 Mile mark I was getting 13-14mpg.. 4000 mile mark 13mpg.. now that I have almost 6000 miles on it I'm getting 10mpg.. This is insane :( I have kept a milage log, so I do have some leverage when dealing with my dealer... but they won't do anything.. guess I should find another dealer as well.. heh

the problem you will face is that you are in jersey and you are (i think)on oxygenated gas now. that could cause a 2-3 mpg drop right there.

the problem you will face is that you are in jersey and you are (i think)on oxygenated gas now. that could cause a 2-3 mpg drop right there.

I know.. I think that's why it dropped from 13mpg down to the 10mpg range pretty much overnight.. but still.. 13mpg is pretty crappy.. i'm going to mention the cat thing to my dealer when I bring it in for the seatback recall on Dec 16th. Maybe I'll get a new cat out of the mix.. and my mileage log should help my side of fence too

when I bring it in for the seatback recall on Dec 16th.

uh care to share. this is news to me!

uh care to share. this is news to me!

zoom44.. here is the link:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/09_034.html

Well, if anyone cares.. attached is an excel doc of my gas milage log.. Just change the file extension to .xls

ok so not a recall- its a standard TSB. i dont think of that one in the context of "seatbelt" i think of it as the "chips and scratches" one

ok so not a recall- its a standard TSB. i dont think of that one in the context of "seatbelt" i think of it as the "chips and scratches" one
Oh, my bad for using improper terminology ;)

My mileage has gotten worse in the 4000 miles I've had it also. I now get 14MPG but I also have a CEL that comes on every 3 days and turns back off. Sometimes the car smells like rotten eggs also. I really think my CAT is jacked up but I'd hate to bring it in and have them blame my intake (K&N cone filter in stock gutted airbox) and not cover it.

I also went to Auto Zone but the OBDII reader didn't work with the car. Guess I need a CanScan. I wonder now if the bad gas mileage is related to flooding incidents and bad catlaytic converters... :confused:

the problem you will face is that you are in jersey and you are (i think)on oxygenated gas now. that could cause a 2-3 mpg drop right there.
He's in Marlton, which means he can just cross the Walt Whitman bridge and fill up at the Sunoco right on the other side (Front Street) in Philly. Added bonus is that it avoids the 'full serve only' idiocy of NJ. I never trust that what I pay for in NJ is actually what they put in it. I don't know if PA gas is the same formulation as that in NJ or DE, but I get lower/less consistant economy on gas bought in NJ.

He's in Marlton, which means he can just cross the Walt Whitman bridge and fill up at the Sunoco right on the other side (Front Street) in Philly. Added bonus is that it avoids the 'full serve only' idiocy of NJ. I never trust that what I pay for in NJ is actually what they put in it. I don't know if PA gas is the same formulation as that in NJ or DE, but I get lower/less consistant economy on gas bought in NJ.

Actually, the closest bridge to me is the Ben Franklin ;) I think there is an Exxon right next to that bridge though.. But is it worth the toll? hehe.. I think philly has more stringent gas requirements than Jersey does..

Oh yeah, I hate the full service BS myself. I just pump my own gas anyhow. The gas station I go to doesn't really mind.

I am trying to summarize all the many posts about poor gas mileage. It seems that all the cars having problems were manufactured in 2003 or at least before April 2004 which is when they arrived from the factory with the M flash. It is hard to tell because many of the posts don't mention the manufacture date or the vin. For reference the last car without the M flash is JM1FE17**40135536.

Does anyone have mileage problems with cars made after 4/2004 to disprove my assumption?

I am trying to summarize all the many posts about poor gas mileage. It seems that all the cars having problems were manufactured in 2003 or at least before April 2004 which is when they arrived from the factory with the M flash. It is hard to tell because many of the posts don't mention the manufacture date or the vin. For reference the last car without the M flash is JM1FE17**40135536.

Does anyone have mileage problems with cars made after 4/2004 to disprove my assumption?

But the posters with the really bad mileage have the M-Flash as well, so I don't think that is the key. I personally get slightly worse mileage after the M-
Flash... although I attribute part of that to enjoying the better power curve with my right foot. My car came with 'J' calibration, and got ok mileage for the winter (15ish), then when I got the L flash I was getting 17ish, then with the M I'm getting 16ish (this is all non-highway driving).

My mileage has gotten worse in the 4000 miles I've had it also. I now get 14MPG but I also have a CEL that comes on every 3 days and turns back off. Sometimes the car smells like rotten eggs also. I really think my CAT is jacked up but I'd hate to bring it in and have them blame my intake (K&N cone filter in stock gutted airbox) and not cover it.

I also went to Auto Zone but the OBDII reader didn't work with the car. Guess I need a CanScan. I wonder now if the bad gas mileage is related to flooding incidents and bad catlaytic converters... :confused:


If I lived near you, I'd loan you my OEM intake stuff for you to put on the car for the inspection :)

Thanks for the spreadsheet.

Vince

Oh, my bad for using improper terminology ;)

it's cool i was just going "how the F did i miss a recall?!" :D

My mileage has gotten worse in the 4000 miles I've had it also. I now get 14MPG but I also have a CEL that comes on every 3 days and turns back off. Sometimes the car smells like rotten eggs also. I really think my CAT is jacked up but I'd hate to bring it in and have them blame my intake (K&N cone filter in stock gutted airbox) and not cover it.

I also went to Auto Zone but the OBDII reader didn't work with the car. Guess I need a CanScan. I wonder now if the bad gas mileage is related to flooding incidents and bad catlaytic converters... :confused:

take it in take the heat and get them to explain the rotten egg smell. my opinion is it is flooding and cat related.

But the posters with the really bad mileage have the M-Flash as well, so I don't think that is the key. I personally get slightly worse mileage after the M-
Flash...

i wonder tho how many flooded before M. i believe i am seeing a direct correlation between flooding and bad cats. bad cats = less mpg. the owner may not have even been the one to flood it. could have happened before purchase- at the port or at the dealer.

Actually, the closest bridge to me is the Ben Franklin ;)


Ben Franklin is scarey from the Philly side. take the wrong turn near it and you end up on it headed for Jersey :eek: then when you get to the other side even if you know where you are it can take an hour to get turned around to go back :D

hop on over get some good gas and have a good cheese steak while your at it. i miss cheeses steaks :(

Ben Franklin is scarey from the Philly side. take the wrong turn near it and you end up on it headed for Jersey :eek: then when you get to the other side even if you know where you are it can take an hour to get turned around to go back :D

hop on over get some good gas and have a good cheese steak while your at it. i miss cheeses steaks :(

oooo... cheese steak... think i need to make a trip down to South Street... damn you zoom44.. hehe.. going to get me fat ;)

i wonder tho how many flooded before M. i believe i am seeing a direct correlation between flooding and bad cats. bad cats = less mpg. the owner may not have even been the one to flood it. could have happened before purchase- at the port or at the dealer.

Which might back up my observation. Those that have problems (10-13 mpg) originally came with pre M flashes. This enabled them to be flooded somewhere along the line which caused damage to the cat which then resulted in poor mileage.

Hey, its just a theory.


On a related subject, my Mustang Cobra had a cat that was so bad that the car felt like it was running on 4 cylinders but I never got a CEL.

Which might back up my observation. Those that have problems (10-13 mpg) originally came with pre M flashes. This enabled them to be flooded somewhere along the line which caused damage to the cat which then resulted in poor mileage.

Hey, its just a theory.


On a related subject, my Mustang Cobra had a cat that was so bad that the car felt like it was running on 4 cylinders but I never got a CEL.


ok- I see where you're going... that makes a lot of sense. I do know that mine was flooded at the port, so I've wondered if my cat lost one of it's 'lives'. In the spring I plan on changing my plugs out, and possibly getting a high-flow cat... I'd be curious to see if my mileage goes up any (although I don't consider my mileage to be in the 'problem' category).

Original Flooding Problem, then M-Flash but bad gas mileage. Maybe were on to something with the CAT.

I am trying to summarize all the many posts about poor gas mileage. It seems that all the cars having problems were manufactured in 2003 or at least before April 2004 which is when they arrived from the factory with the M flash. It is hard to tell because many of the posts don't mention the manufacture date or the vin. For reference the last car without the M flash is JM1FE17**40135536.

Does anyone have mileage problems with cars made after 4/2004 to disprove my assumption?


Mine with 10mpg was 08/03. I agree that the Flash is not the issue rather something else related to earlier builds. I have a list of members who have the problem and I can share it according to them, but they have not supplied me with additional info for the most part.

Howard - 08/03 10 mpg. I take mine in for service next week and they are supposed to check the mileage and I will ask that they check the cat. This is the most sensible thread yeat on the mileage issue of the 20-30 threads out there. Sorry for the long post but I thought some otheres might want to see this info.

whosyourbaba - well i read your several post about mpg. I'm with you. When i first got it i was getting around 12. When i do like 90% highway, thats when i get like 80. Last 4 tanks with city driving with granny shifting was about 12 mpg. i cant do 150 miles for a full tank, kinda sad. let me know what ur dealer says, im bringing mine in when i got some time. best wishes.

dwntreader - I am still getting about 12MPG after having my car in the dealer's shop 4 times. It has had all the latest flashes and recall service and nothing has helped.

The best I've gotten was 20MPG on a road trip to Jacksonville, Fl from Altanta, Ga. I think that is pitiful for a road trip. I currently have just shy of 9000 miles on my RX-8 since purchasing it on 4/15/04.
Feel free to post the numbers in your list

twisty7867 - m pretty sure my mileage is due to my driving habits, because I do in the mid-20s when I have any extended 75mph type highway driving, but nonetheless, I do typically get between 8-11 MPG in city driving.
amartin - "I average 14.5-15.3mpg driving ""normal"" (for me), and 10.5-12mpg driving agressivly (on the street).
In contrast, driving my S2000 HAAAARRRRDDDDDDDDD I still get ~20-22mpg... and FWIW, 11MPG on the track (of course, I'm sustaining 7.5-9k rpms the entire time on the track)

rotarynoob - 04 RX-8 Build date: 11/03
Mileage: 3100 as of 11/22/04
Gas Mileage: 12-14 MPG regardless of driving style
Service History: Center console button replaced 11/22/04

Isamu - "What is considered horrible mileage? I'm getting about 12-14 MPG city, and about 20 MPG all highway.
"

Yes - it's one of those....so if you don't like MPG threads...move on :-)

hehe


First tank - 220miles to the Low Fuel Light. After some back-of-the-envelope math, I figured about 18 miles per gallon. Not too shabby.

I filled up the tank, then headed over to my Dad's place. A 10-minute stop turned into 45. My family was keeping warm in the car w/ the engine running 95% of that time. Also, a couple days later I had some friends over for test-rides. Several 'fun runs' later, the tank emptied to about 15mpg.

Now...my Third tank. Last night I filled up, and made a 60 mile trip - 90% freeway. Today to work and back left the fuel gauge reading 'just' above 1/2, and 102 miles on the odometer - Not too shabby I thought, especially because I 'got on it' several times.

Tonight I had a pretty long drive via freeway, in rush-hour traffic, with a couple side-trips thru town. All told I went about 125 miles.

Fuel gauge? Only consumed 1/4 tank, as the needle is just above 1/4 remaining. I am VERY surprised. Tonights driving was under 70mph - except for a few pass-manuevers, and one rather agressive wheel-spinning launch from a Metered On-ramp up to about 75mph. Nearly 125 miles on 1/4 tank - I'm VERY excited to see what mileage I'll end up with, but maybe...just maybe this'll be the 20mpg tank I've been SO hoping to see.

yay! :)

I'll post back tomorrow after work w/ an update and 35 miles or so added.

:D

Ironic that you just posted this... I was getting about 240 miles on the gallon before, but I got my car flashed (per the Mazda recall) a month ago, and today, frustratingly enough, I only got 25 miles on 1/4-tank. That's 100 miles on the tank!!! Absolutely terrible. I called my dealer and they gave me some b.s. response that it may be due to the shape of my gas tank and how the indicator floats in there. If anyone else who has recently done the flash is having fuel-consumption problems, let me know whether your dealer was able to resolve the issue.

Perfect!
That is the best way to test mileage, with an empty tank - they fill it up, drive for a week, calculate the mileage and you finally have a case.

You are finally making progress, I am really interested in the results. Give the dealer input on how you drive the car, whether you gun it a lot, or drive on the highway a lot etc, so they can duplicate the same conditions.

Good luck!

I'll have them check the cat. It will probably be sometime next week before I can get my gas down to where they want it. at is unless I syphon itoff. LOL On the bright side we are suppose to get 5-8 in of snow by the first of the week and I can try out my Pirrilli Snowsports. Maybe I'll take of the DSC and look for a big parking lot like when I was a kid.

Howard, very frustrating situation. Surely their testing of the mileage will start to convince them. There is varying service quality, knowledge, and even approach amongst dealers, unfortunately that is just the way it is. We are lucky to have 4 down here and sometimes it is easier to make progress by switching as I found with the brake squeal. I am sorry you don't seem to have that option.

It will be very interesting to see what they say next and a diagnosis for your low mileage.

Just reached 1000 miles on my RX-8. First 3 tanks, prior to the M flash yielded 17.5 to 18.1 mpg. Last tank, since the M flash, yielded 18.5. I suspect it has more to do with variation in highway/city driving than anything else.

Although I watch my gas gauge obsessively, I suspect that any seat-of-the-pants calculations based on partial tanks are error-prone. On the other hand, if your mileage drops significantly after the M flash, I strongly suspect something's wrong either with your calculator or your car.

Anyone else notice the gauge sinks over night? When I left my car last night, the needle marked 1/4 tank. This morning, the mark was slightly under.

My car has the M flash, btw - according the people on the phone at Mazda's phone number.

As of this morning, here at work I've got 240 miles, with more than 1/8th tank remaining - very close to 1/4 still. If I can hit 260 miles before the light comes on, I'll have +/- 20mpg.

Yeah - it sorta sucks to have to nurse the car, just to get 'somewhat decent' mileage. :)

Mine is a 9/03 build. I picked it up on 6/30/04 with 44 miles on the odo. 7/6/04 the car threw a cel and the dealer installed tsb's including the M flash. 9/04 with 2K miles on it, the cat was replaced after throwing a cel. Before and after cat replacement, I am getting 13 city/15 hwy mpg. The car has 7K miles today and this isn't getting any better.

So, the car wasn't driven (much) before the M flash. The cat was replaced and that didn't improve the performance or the mileage. There is a different problem here. The theory of the flooding causing the cat to go bad may be correct. But, at least in my case, there are other forces working that causing the milage problem.

Same here. I made about 90miles with1/4 once and thought "wow! I'll reach 360 with a tank?" but then the gauge dropped and, well, I got about 250-260miles.

My record though is 280-285miles. Now that I have the flywheel, I don't think I'll see that again:p

I'm wondering if a smart user will check the voltage send by his/her Air Meter. I know on my previous Mazda (93 Probe GT), the voltage was changed by the air pushing back a cone, and the meter reading the distance the cone was moved. I'm wondering if we know the OEM Spec for Air Meter voltage? One could then see if the the measured voltage falls within whatever spec Mazda designed.

Make any sense? :)

Anyone else notice the gauge sinks over night? When I left my car last night, the needle marked 1/4 tank. This morning, the mark was slightly under.

My car has the M flash, btw - according the people on the phone at Mazda's phone number.

As of this morning, here at work I've got 240 miles, with more than 1/8th tank remaining - very close to 1/4 still. If I can hit 260 miles before the light comes on, I'll have +/- 20mpg.

Yeah - it sorta sucks to have to nurse the car, just to get 'somewhat decent' mileage. :)
I noticed my guage at 1/4, then 5 minutes later at the notch below 1/4, then 5 minutes later back at the 1/4. I'm sure it's a digital gauge that has a limited number of positions. It's possible that when the actual tank level is right in between two positions that it will "bounce" back an forth between them every few minutes.

Mine is a 9/03 build. I picked it up on 6/30/04 with 44 miles on the odo. 7/6/04 the car threw a cel and the dealer installed tsb's including the M flash. 9/04 with 2K miles on it, the cat was replaced after throwing a cel. Before and after cat replacement, I am getting 13 city/15 hwy mpg. The car has 7K miles today and this isn't getting any better.

So, the car wasn't driven (much) before the M flash. The cat was replaced and that didn't improve the performance or the mileage. There is a different problem here. The theory of the flooding causing the cat to go bad may be correct. But, at least in my case, there are other forces working that causing the milage problem.

So much for the cat theory. But this still confirms that the problem cars were built with pre M flashes. Is anyone having this type of problem with a car that came with the M flash from the factory?

my record is 340 miles. thats cruise set at 78 for a really long freeway run. wheni made teh runs to 7stock with nemesis he said he had never seen 300 miles and i told him "well you will this trip" he didnt believe me until after the second consecutive tank over 320 miles and 23.99 mpg both tanks. he got 24.x on one of those legs too. we were not under 70 any of the legs and well over that on many (playing with other rotaries :)) and still i think the lowest on that trip was 20mpg. maybe 18 the one tank when we were over 100 for a while. if you are one of those people that thinks this engine is no significant mpg increase of previous rotaries drive with some 7s for a trip and watch them pull over for gas between 150 and 200 miles when you still have nearly twice that to go.:)

Mine is a 9/03 build. I picked it up on 6/30/04 with 44 miles on the odo. 7/6/04 the car threw a cel and the dealer installed tsb's including the M flash. 9/04 with 2K miles on it, the cat was replaced after throwing a cel. Before and after cat replacement, I am getting 13 city/15 hwy mpg. The car has 7K miles today and this isn't getting any better.

So, the car wasn't driven (much) before the M flash. The cat was replaced and that didn't improve the performance or the mileage. There is a different problem here. The theory of the flooding causing the cat to go bad may be correct. But, at least in my case, there are other forces working that causing the milage problem.


what gear do you run in on the highway? 15 mpg on the highway is unbelievable. have you had your mpg confirmnd by an independant source?

I'm wondering if a smart user will check the voltage send by his/her Air Meter. I know on my previous Mazda (93 Probe GT), the voltage was changed by the air pushing back a cone, and the meter reading the distance the cone was moved. I'm wondering if we know the OEM Spec for Air Meter voltage? One could then see if the the measured voltage falls within whatever spec Mazda designed.

Make any sense? :)

that is something i am working on and with a little help from omi might have some info soon. the rx8 uses a hot wire mass air flow sensor.

So much for the cat theory. But this still confirms that the problem cars were built with pre M flashes. Is anyone having this type of problem with a car that came with the M flash from the factory?

one car does not trash the theory. it just means that he could and most likely does have a different/compounding problem.

So much for the cat theory. But this still confirms that the problem cars were built with pre M flashes. Is anyone having this type of problem with a car that came with the M flash from the factory?
These two theories are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Indeed, we might be in the following turn of events :
- pre-M flashes tended to massively overfuel under cold conditions
- employees moving the RX8s during transport did not know about the rule of not turning off the engine when cold
- fuel remaining in the cat can actually damage and melt it down
Fabrice

So much for the cat theory. But this still confirms that the problem cars were built with pre M flashes. Is anyone having this type of problem with a car that came with the M flash from the factory?

Don't be so quick to throw out the cat theory. One car is not a defining factor. I have been smelling burning after shutting off the car sense I got it, The Service department is confirimng with Mazda to determine whether they will check my cat when I take the car in on Monday. I will keep you updated.

These two theories are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Indeed, we might be in the following turn of events :
- pre-M flashes tended to massively overfuel under cold conditions
- employees moving the RX8s during transport did not know about the rule of not turning off the engine when cold
- fuel remaining in the cat can actually damage and melt it down
Fabrice


The service mananager did say today that a flooding condition could cause a damaged Cat.

I did a search of all the forums and created a list of threads related to gas mileage issues. It was apparent that other then threads on praise and new owners, gas mileage was at the top of discussion. Maybe a sticky could be created or something. Anyway here is a link to the links so to say.

Threads (http://howardthegeek.com/Mileage.htm)

what gear do you run in on the highway? 15 mpg on the highway is unbelievable. have you had your mpg confirmnd by an independant source?
I don't get out on the open highway very offen. My daily commute is 70% suburban expressway driving. And at that time it is 5th & 6th gear. The last fillup was 14.7 gal with 150 mi on the trip/odo. You do the math. This was a little bit poorer mileage than I normally get. :(
I don't know how you would get the mpg confirmed by an independant source.

after i was L flashed my gas needle responded differently than before.


and you can't figure mpg from what your gas gauge tells you....it is not linear. For me the last 1/4 is usually good for 30-40 miles and the first 1/4 for 75-90 miles. Higher numbers being highway where i can get 300-330 miles on the tank usually. If your were going by the gauge indication this would be ~20mpg, but since i only pump back in 12.5-13 gallons.... it's actually 24-26 mpg

after i was L flashed my gas needle responded differently than before.


and you can't figure mpg from what your gas gauge tells you....it is not linear. For me the last 1/4 is usually good for 30-40 miles and the first 1/4 for 75-90 miles. Higher numbers being highway where i can get 300-330 miles on the tank usually. If your were going by the gauge indication this would be ~20mpg, but since i only pump back in 12.5-13 gallons.... it's actually 24-26 mpg

I'm estimating what my economy will be, based on what the gauge reads; I will report back hard data tomorrow morning, after I fill up. :)

here are some pictures of a burned out RX-8 cat. this car had a set of plugs replaced because of previous flooding. this one did throw a cel.

I can see in the pics where the smaller residue is clogging the rear converter.

No air out/ no air in..

The hole halfway down is where the O2 sensor normally resides.

Ben Franklin is scarey from the Philly side. take the wrong turn near it and you end up on it headed for Jersey :eek: then when you get to the other side even if you know where you are it can take an hour to get turned around to go back :D
The whole area is scary from all sides. It takes an hour to get turned around because people drive s o d a m n s l o w and you CAN'T MAKE A F'ING LEFT TURN!!! Not to mention the roads are worse than many third-world countries I've been in.



i miss cheeses steaks :(
I miss Atlanta. <sniff>

here are some pictures of a burned out RX-8 cat. this car had a set of plugs replaced because of previous flooding. this one did throw a cel.
You're dead wrong about the CEL... seems to me that finger lodged in there is not a suitable substitute for a WBO2 sensor :D

You're dead wrong about the CEL... seems to me that finger lodged in there is not a suitable substitute for a WBO2 sensor :D


How do you think fuel injection works?

Stick your finger in the hole and tune... :)

I filled up on the way home tonight - with 1/8th tank remaining and 260.5 miles on the odometer. The tank held 12.7 gallons...end result, 20.4 mpg.

Not too shabby! Here's hoping those numbers continue! :)

let me guess - to start it, pull your finger? :D

let me guess - to start it, pull your finger? :D

You don't want to pull my finger...bad things happen... :rolleyes:

In line with the thread I wonder how many pre-delivery/post flood cars are seeing poor mileage numbers?

This could get interesting.

I've averaged 19-20 mpg for the last 30000 miles regardless of pcm flash, 50/50 city/hwy, 4AT. with my recent move however, I cut my commute distance in half, and my monthly fuel cost by about $130, so i could care less what my fuel economy is now.

The fuel guage is very rarely accurate, it is just a guide. The RX8 has a sadllebag type fuel tank. There are two large compartments on either side of the center tunnel, and a connection between the two. When you turn, gas will move from one side to the other, and the fuel gauge mechanism is only in one side. So, as the gas settles from one side to the other the gauge will change. Hopefully you guys aren't assuming that 1/2 a tank by the gauge is equal to 8 gallons. Use your trip meter, and the number of gallons it takes to fill the tank. Computer your mileage that way. When the fuel light comes on, there should be 2-3 gallons in your tank....but do you know which? I have filled up when the fuel light came on on a few different occasions and there was about a 1.5 gallon difference in the fuel it took to fill it up. BTW, I have been getting 14.5 since July over 14000 miles.

I live in South Carolina, so we do not experience extremely cold winters. This is the first winter I have had the car and on the days that the high temperature doesn't get out of the 40's or so I experience sightly worse gas mileage (Maybe 2-3 mpg's worse). It is no big deal but I was curious if anyone had any comments about the subject.

Thanks, Donald

Agreed. Last week or so in the cold I've dropped from about 16 to 12 or so. Damn, how can such a small engine suck down more gas than I do water?

are you on oygenated gas?

Any suggestions on how one can imporve their MPG? Im getting about 18 mpg and im not even driving the car that hard...