http://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=50909

BS or serious?

bs

shit i bought my car used... how do you ask for flash updates... btw i know this one is bs

never heard of it

hmmm maybe i shodl start a rumor about flashes ...hehe everyone else is.


next tiem yougo to the dealership ask for the "z" flash......made my 8 liek a rocket ship of exotic goodness. :p

oh and to get flashes you need ot knwo the secret hand shake TwitchFD...haha seriously though you can just ask for the latest update.

:(

I'm afraid it's true folks..

37.3 has a "P" flash

^agreed...

:(

I'm afraid it's true folks..

37.3 has a "P" flash


Huh? Now I'm really confused...

I thought we'd pretty much determined this was BS :confused:

I wonder what this one is suppose to do......

I remember the good ol' days of the J flash.....ohhh....memories.....

seriously....why people so quick to call it B.S.?

everybody is an expert on here....sheesh.

^yea i know...we all know there is only one expert.......ME.

so start a lien to get the "z" flash outside my door...and bring 5 dollars.


hahaha i kid i kid. I'm still rocking the M flash myself..,maybe i shoudl get off my duff and get a new flash :D

If youve ever trusted me on anything, this is it :p

So...What is this flash supposed to do?

If youve ever trusted me on anything, this is it :p

hmmm but i haven't trusted you on anything. lol

kidding..guess i'll call tomarrow an enquire about the new flash :D

:(

I'm afraid it's true folks..

37.3 has a "P" flash
Hey, Snap-on, is there a VIN range for this update?

Larry

My question is: what happened to "O" ?? :cool:

:(

I'm afraid it's true folks..

37.3 has a "P" flash
Geez... who can keep up with this stuff? :eek:
I thought O will come after N, not P...looks like I learned the alphabet wrong :)
Also, what the heck is 37.3? :confused:
snap-on, any info what's different with this new flash? (provided if it really exists)

I want the 247HP flash :)
This has got to be it... "P" stands for "power" :D

This has got to be it... "P" stands for "power" :D

lol that would be nice. I would hope that would give around 210 to the wheels :D

Also, what the heck is 37.3?

Represent the version of WDS Calibration Level supplied by Mazda to their dealers.

Kind of like software version 1.0, 1.1, etc.

Geez... who can keep up with this stuff? :eek:
I thought O will come after N, not P...looks like I learned the alphabet wrong :)
Also, what the heck is 37.3? :confused:
snap-on, any info what's different with this new flash? (provided if it really exists)


I have no clue why they skipped "O"

I checked a car today and the WDS took it to the N3Z2E(P)

I didn't have time today to compare the PID's on a "N" to the new flash.

This should explain the "what the heck is 37.3" question

http://forum.mazda6tech.com/about15.html

Your killing me man...

I'm going by to talk to my little birdie on the way home

Maybe they skipped O because they don't want ppl to think it's a 0?

Either way, I can't begin to express how happy I'd be if this were even the 238hp flash - the 247hp flash? WOW!! :D

Maybe they skipped O because they don't want ppl to think it's a 0?

Either way, I can't begin to express how happy I'd be if this were even the 238hp flash - the 247hp flash? WOW!! :D


I agree on the skipping O thing because in the phone company we regularly skip O,and I because they look too much like zero's,and 1's.I guess I need to get to the dealer for the latest flash(I have M),and have them fix my taillights which have condensation behind the lens.

^hahaha tell me about it...wouldn't that be nice...i doubt it..but i can dream until i get it done :D

I checked a car today and the WDS took it to the N3Z2E(P)

WDS is at 37.4 Patch 5 today, and my little birdie confirmed a NEW file was downloaded...

WDS is at 37.4 Patch 5 today, and my little birdie confirmed a NEW file was downloaded...

and what did your little birdie tell you the purpose of this flash was? :D

He is checking...

...............thank your little birdie for us

indeed..get your lill birdie a beer or two :D

He is checking...


Maybe your little birdie can save me a lot of time....I'm in for a 12 pack.

Hey mods..maybe this can be put in the "Tech" section?

Better yet - have him practice, by re-flashing my car! :D How late does he stay there?

Let's just say that "P" does not stand for power

Darin - answer your PM

you aren't going to share with the rest of us?

thats just mean :p

Better yet - have him practice, by re-flashing my car! :D How late does he stay there?


Even if he flashes the car he still has to log data with the old parameters and compare what they changed. :confused:

So its confirmed the p flash should be available? Please post differences in power after the reflash to p.

This sucks I just had my car into the dealers last week for the N flash and so they could fix my tail light. I dont know how happy they will be to see my car again for the P flash

Let's just say that "P" does not stand for power

Darin - answer your PM

so what did it change? or what issue did it try to resolve.

we'll know tomorrow or the next day what exactly its for but i can tell you its NOT power.

right now I'd settle for a slightly higher idle setting

PM answered.

i should be able to find out what it does tomorrow.
my car will be getting it done (assuming I can convince them to let me talk to my mechanic).

I would hold off and just get the "N" flash...

I would hold off and just get the "N" flash... Already have the N flash...
hrmm.. maybe i'll just ask what it does..

Great idea :rolleyes:

we'll know tomorrow or the next day what exactly its for but i can tell you its NOT power.


thanks for popping the bubble :p
why can't it ever be for added power :confused:

Flashes revealed:

Q Flash- "Q"uieter, but needs more power
R Flash- "R"uns better, needs more power
S Flash- "S"moother, yet slow
..... Perhaps the Z Flash will be the one:

Z Flash- "Z"oom Zoom!

Or maybe not. Why do they tease me like this!

haha funny guy ^^^ hopefully P will do wonders... if not im not going in again for another flash!

haha funny guy ^^^ hopefully P will do wonders... if not im not going in again for another flash!

Don't waste your time.. :confused:

I talked to my mechanic last night, and he said this is not for power. It has something to due with climate control. He told me to stay on M or N. Some dealers will go ahead and flash your car without you knowing what you are getting, so please ask about any PCM related issues when you go in for service. I'll know more today after he looks into it better.

Climate Control as in manual or automatic?

Threads like this remind me just how LOST I'd be without this site. Looking forward to you gurus finding out more.

I'll say this, though, Mazda sure seems to be going to great lengths to get the PCM programming right. This stuff ain't free.

RevTo9K is right, Mazda keeps programming and releasing new flashes to make this car better, shows they care and it maybe free to us but it is costing Mazda thats for sure.

Maybe it magically gives us suckers in North America auto climate control :D

Glad i stumbled across this thread. Im taking my 8 in to the dealer after work today for the squeeky brakes issue. I'll ask about this, and see what they say, and report back to you all.

Also, would the "p" flash just be an updated version of the 'n' flash? So if 'p' is for climate control, would you still get the same changes from the 'n' flash + climate control changes? Just wondering since im still running 'm'.

I'm going to wait till I know for sure what this does. BECAUSE....

The latest flash in Europe was designed specifically to disable Cruise Control.

A DIY that someone did over there, gave European cars the ability to work with A-Spec Cruse Control controls. However since Mazda Europe is located in Belgium, cruise control is illegal in that country, so the reflash was designed to combat this persons DIY.

thanks for popping the bubble :p
why can't it ever be for added power :confused:

That's what happened to 'O'

They found out it added power, and pulled it :D

well i just got home from dropping off my car :( , i already miss her. I got a Jeep Liberty as a loaner, and man does it suck. But anywho, i asked the service guy about a new flash and he said since i wasnt eligible to be reflashed he couldnt tell me if there was a new one or what it did. :confused: He said the computer wouldnt let him even see if a new one was out, i think he was full of it, but i really didnt feel like sitting around and arguing with him, I was hoping to get you guys some info, but sorry i failed :( Cant wait till tomorrow at 4 when im with my 8 again...

:(

I'm afraid it's true folks..

37.3 has a "P" flash
And you know what is the best part? In Europe, the calibration file on v 37.3 disables the cruise control operation.

As you light be aware, we are now a few dozens of RX8 owners running with a perfectly functiunal Cruise Control (although not available, even in retro-fit, from Mazda in Europe) after we installed the CC buttons sourced in US or Japan. The CC startegy was enabled in the PCM. Just installing the wiring from the buttons to the PCM enables it. Apparantly Mazda Europe did not like it...

Hey snap on, ltft and stft changed on pids after p flash on my sled. low end added fuel and changed timing (less) mid and hi end trimmed fuel out. Nothing said about climate control.

Hey snap on, ltft and stft changed on pids after p flash on my sled. low end added fuel and changed timing (less) mid and hi end trimmed fuel out. Nothing said about climate control.

What flash were you on previous? Those items sound like the N flash, and were just carried over to the P along with...

My check engine light came on sunday and i took it in the next day for service. I picked it up today and it was reflashed to "P" calibration as per sb 01-007/05. I believe i was previously on hte M flash and now it feels as if there is more pep in my 8's step.

My check engine light came on sunday and i took it in the next day for service. I picked it up today and it was reflashed to "P" calibration as per sb 01-007/05. I believe i was previously on hte M flash and now it feels as if there is more pep in my 8's step.
That service bulletin deals with the "N" flash if I'm not mistaken and it's dated 2 Feb 2005.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-007-05-1432.pdf

I'm going to wait till I know for sure what this does. BECAUSE....

The latest flash in Europe was designed specifically to disable Cruise Control.

A DIY that someone did over there, gave European cars the ability to work with A-Spec Cruse Control controls. However since Mazda Europe is located in Belgium, cruise control is illegal in that country, so the reflash was designed to combat this persons DIY.
And you know what is the best part? In Europe, the calibration file on v 37.3 disables the cruise control operation.

As you light be aware, we are now a few dozens of RX8 owners running with a perfectly functiunal Cruise Control (although not available, even in retro-fit, from Mazda in Europe) after we installed the CC buttons sourced in US or Japan. The CC startegy was enabled in the PCM. Just installing the wiring from the buttons to the PCM enables it. Apparantly Mazda Europe did not like it...


and this really pisses me OFF!! i spent alot of MY TIME, tracking down info and diagrams and where to get the parts etc emailing and phoning so i could help MY FREIND get cruise contol working in his car. and then MAZDA EUROPE tries to bugger the whole thing!! he was willing to pay them to put it on and they said no. he gets it on himself and now they pull this garbage. Apparently the one thing Mazda is capable of worldwide is PISSING OF THEIR CUSTOMERS!!! :mad:

What flash were you on previous? Those items sound like the N flash, and were just carried over to the P along with...


I was on "n". I am saying that there was more trim as compared to N with "p"

Thanks

wut da.. now a "p"? im tired of these hahha

Hey i have an 05 rx-8 that i baught in december 2004,does anyone know if im up to date on flashes. Cuz my gas millage sucks

Hey gas millage sucks

You bought a Sports Car, right?

LOL, my gas mileage sucks... you silly '05 owners...

On a side note I had my car N flashed a few weeks ago adn I started noticing my oil light coming on periodically even though my oil level was fine. I brought the car in for service Tuesday (getting it back Thurs) and I called the dealership today to see what was up and they said there a new flash that fixes that problem. (i.e. the P flash) However, I'm skeptical...

anyone know exactly what the P flash does?

My little birdie told me:

P flash has the same fuel maps and timing as N flash. The ONLY thing that has changed is the A/C Cutoff, it was raised from [correct me if im wrong] 5500 RPM, to 7500 RPM.

That is all.

My little birdie told me:

P flash has the same fuel maps and timing as N flash. The ONLY thing that has changed is the A/C Cutoff, it was raised from [correct me if im wrong] 5500 RPM, to 7500 RPM.

That is all.
That means the A/C clutch won't release the compressor until 7500rpms? :eek: I don't want no stinking A/C messing with my incursions to redline. My A/C cools enough for me, at least that'll be my comment from now on at the dealer :p

That means the A/C clutch won't release the compressor until 7500rpms? :eek: I don't want no stinking A/C messing with my incursions to redline. My A/C cools enough for me, at least that'll be my comment from now on at the dealer :p


Ding Ding Ding, What do we have for him johnny!

That means the A/C clutch won't release the compressor until 7500rpms? :eek: I don't want no stinking A/C messing with my incursions to redline. My A/C cools enough for me, at least that'll be my comment from now on at the dealer :p

Last time I checked there was an off button for the A/C for those redline runs. ;)


All: Thanks for doing the research on the "P" flash. It's always nice to be "in the know"

Ding Ding Ding, What do we have for him johnny!

we have the exciting AC button which allows you to...... wait for it..... TURN OFF YOUR AC!!!!!
:rolleyes: :)

btw did i mention how pissed i am at Mazda Europe over this CC issue :mad: :mad:

Charlie....they should know to never get an Irishman angry :D

Give-em hell!!!

we have the exciting AC button which allows you to...... wait for it..... TURN OFF YOUR AC!!!!!
Last time I checked there was an off button for the A/C for those redline runs. ;)
:rolleyes: Did I forget to mention I am extremely lazy to reach for that button :p

Charlie....they should know to never get an Irishman angry :D

Give-em hell!!!


unfortunately my yelling at them from this side of the pond only makes me feel a little better- it doesnt actually help the situation :(

I'm going to wait till I know for sure what this does. BECAUSE....

The latest flash in Europe was designed specifically to disable Cruise Control.

A DIY that someone did over there, gave European cars the ability to work with A-Spec Cruse Control controls. However since Mazda Europe is located in Belgium, cruise control is illegal in that country, so the reflash was designed to combat this persons DIY.
The DIY consists in just plugging the OEM cruise control controls to the PCM. I bought my controls from Japan. Others from US. Anze, a German owner, actually created a "kit" consisting of the controls, 2 bits of wires and fitting instructions.

Mazda Motor Europe is in Leverkussen, Germany. Toyota Motor Europe is in Belgium.

Cruise Control is legal in every single European country.

The use of "I think" or "maybe" in some of your statement might have been a good idea...;)

Fabrice (from Belgium)

:) ^^

and this really pisses me OFF!! i spent alot of MY TIME, tracking down info and diagrams and where to get the parts etc emailing and phoning so i could help MY FREIND get cruise contol working in his car. and then MAZDA EUROPE tries to bugger the whole thing!! he was willing to pay them to put it on and they said no. he gets it on himself and now they pull this garbage. Apparently the one thing Mazda is capable of worldwide is PISSING OF THEIR CUSTOMERS!!! :mad:

Thanks Zoom!... I guess you're talking about me there?... funny it's all the same names on all these forums... Won't be getting any more flashes it seems... sigh.

Sorry Rasputin I was only repeating what HE ^ told me :mad:

The DIY consists in just plugging the OEM cruise control controls to the PCM. I bought my controls from Japan. Others from US. Anze, a German owner, actually created a "kit" consisting of the controls, 2 bits of wires and fitting instructions.

Mazda Motor Europe is in Leverkussen, Germany. Toyota Motor Europe is in Belgium.

Cruise Control is legal in every single European country.

The use of "I think" or "maybe" in some of your statement might have been a good idea...;)

Fabrice (from Belgium)


Sorry, Rasputin.... I might be guilty here, I am sure somone told me that it was illegal in Belgeum... is there no unusual restriction?... if not I understand their position even less, what is going on?...

you bet James. just glad to be of help no matter how small it may be. yeah no flashes for you. since it will be in all future flashes as well-unless for some reason they change their minds . which seems unlikely. although why they would bother to do this in the first place to just screw with -what?- a dozen people? its just odd-i mean why bother? seems like spite to me.
of course there may be some better flashes coming from "other sources" once a few more folks like racing beat crack the pcm.

and yes- its helpful that folks in general use the same names on the various forums. its easier to remember everyone;)

-charlie

If anyone wants to see how simple it is, the howto I wrote for RHD cars in the UK is here:-

http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13845

It's slightly different to the cars in the rest of europe, becuase the connection point is inside the car.

i want to be clear that when i said earlier that i had spent alot of time on this i wasnt taking credit for anything. i spent about a weeks time over a month taking to trussville and other dealers as well as some other contacts and looking at service manual stuff then sending that info to blueadept. but mostly i ran into dead ends. no one i talked to would sell the buttons as they said MNAO wouldnt let them(or something like that)blueadept and the guys in france etc are the ones who did the real work of figuring everything out and getting it to work. bravo to them :D

i want to be clear that when i said earlier that i had spent alot of time on this i wasnt taking credit for anything. i spent about a weeks time over a month taking to trussville and other dealers as well as some other contacts and looking at service manual stuff then sending that info to blueadept. but mostly i ran into dead ends. no one i talked to would sell the buttons as they said MNAO wouldnt let them(or something like that)blueadept and the guys in france etc are the ones who did the real work of figuring everything out and getting it to work. bravo to them :D

Well, Anze in germany was there first really, and selling the kit... I had the buttons before, but I thought it was just a case of plugging them in... Still, many thanks for the time you spent...

My little birdie told me:

P flash has the same fuel maps and timing as N flash. The ONLY thing that has changed is the A/C Cutoff, it was raised from [correct me if im wrong] 5500 RPM, to 7500 RPM.

That is all.

Well your birdie hasn't looked too deep. Have him take a look at L and T timing as well aS LONG AND SHORT Fuel trims. Before and afters show some difference. Not huge but definately different.

Is it possible the LFT/SFT are still adjusting for your car?

A reflash will clear all KAM.

My fantasy is making the car run leaner in closed-loop mode so I can get better gas mileage than a Hummer...

...so wouldn't it be nice if the 'P' or subsequent flashes disabled the 'run pig rich' function?

... My A/C cools enough for me, at least that'll be my comment from now on at the dealer :p

Speak for yourself... It gets really hot down here... :mad: When I am whirling around at 7,000 rpm I like to feel cool... :D

Re the P flash: Don't forget that the A.C. compressor cycles whether or not the A.C. system is turned on.

CRH

Speak for yourself... It gets really hot down here... :mad: When I am whirling around at 7,000 rpm I like to feel cool... :D
Could you buy one of those electric fans you can attach to your windshield with suction cups?

:D

My fantasy is making the car run leaner in closed-loop mode so I can get better gas mileage than a Hummer...


You don't want to change closed loop....it is lean enough already. It is the open loop areas that need leaning out............I'm afraid that even if they are leaned out...you spend 80% of your driving in closed loop anyway....therefore mileage won't change much from leaning out open loop areas...it drinks gas when your foot is in it anyway. Thermal Efficiency is our problem...just part of the design :(

You don't want to change closed loop....it is lean enough already. It is the open loop areas that need leaning out............I'm afraid that even if they are leaned out...you spend 80% of your driving in closed loop anyway....therefore mileage won't change much from leaning out open loop areas...it drinks gas when your foot is in it anyway. Thermal Efficiency is our problem...just part of the design :(

Yes, it is less than elegant that the 8's engine uses gasoline to heat up the exhaust manifold instead of converting the fuel to motive force.

However, the flip side to almost every problem is opportunity. All that thermal energy could, with the right working fluid & design, be used to do useful work, like, spin a turbine to force more air into the engine. Also, after passing thru the turbine, the fluid could be used to supercool the air going into the engine A LOT more than a conventional intercooler, with less lead loss to boot.

Just to make sure I have the right impressions on the N/P flash- What are the differences between the M and N/P flashes? If I know for sure that may help with some minor issues I am still having. Thx.

CRH

so okay i read the thread over and over again and nobody really still says what the P flash does?

Well your birdie hasn't looked too deep. Have him take a look at L and T timing as well aS LONG AND SHORT Fuel trims. Before and afters show some difference. Not huge but definately different.

So there are changes to the fuel trims with the P flash as opposed to the N flash? Any changes to acceleration/power. Has anyone had the P flash done yet?

So there are changes to the fuel trims with the P flash as opposed to the N flash? Any changes to acceleration/power. Has anyone had the P flash done yet?

There has been alot of talk about this new "P" flash, and if you look through the threads...you'll see whats been mentioned, but the infomation seems to be very convuluted, and at time unclear.

From what I have read, it seems like one of the major changes in for the A/C clutch shutdown, which is changed from 5500rpm to 7000rpm? Sounds like that would maintain the parasitic drag on the engine through the rev range, but doe this change the WOT shutoff? It has also been mentioned that the P contains some additional changes to the AFR's, or timing. Can't confirm any of this. Just what I have read.

I may find out what is in the new flash, as my car is scheduled for alot of work on Monday, which may include this PCM reflash, I will add any update to the new thread I started "Another Dealer Visit".

If anyone has confirmed an info about the P flash, can you spell it out for us in one post?

Many thanks!!!

the only confirmed pflash change is the ac cutoff moved to 7k rpm.

I am off to the dyno on Saturday with a bunch of the Georgia bunch so we'll see if there is any change since "n". We'll have afew 05 models too and they do not have "p" available.
Check for results in the SE forum after Saturday.

ok, im going to sound like an idiot, but by A/C cutoff do you mean Air Conditioner cutoff? Sorry for my stupidity :D

Yes, the compressor mounted to the engine that is driven by the belt driven pulley... :)

The stock cutoff was actually cutoff at 65% of throttle position, so I wonder how they equated this to RPM...?

an either /or thing I'm sure :D

ehh, im gonna stick with my N untill the next one comes out, i could care less about A/C

Could you buy one of those electric fans you can attach to your windshield with suction cups?

Tried that... Can't get one with cups strong enough to stay on with windscreen during full throttle acceleration... Nearly lost my nose last time.. :D

lol xxup

Last time I checked there was an off button for the A/C for those redline runs.

I'm pretty sure that the AC also kicks in if the heater is set to either of the defrost modes, it does on most cars. So you will need to turn it off AND set if to floor and/or vent.

The PCM should be programmed to disable the A/C compressor under certain throttle/load conditions to aid "passing". Isn't that what we are talking about, here?

CRH

Just another data point:

Two days ago we got our first day over 100 degrees and sure enough the MIL came on. How I got through last summer without one I do not know. Today the tech found code P0456, looked up the tsb, and flashed me to the -P code (I think I was at L). I don't notice a difference in driving. We'll see about anything as we go.

My check engine light came on sunday and i took it in the next day for service. I picked it up today and it was reflashed to "P" calibration as per sb 01-007/05. I believe i was previously on hte M flash and now it feels as if there is more pep in my 8's step.


I had this happen this week. They reprogrammed the computer- I need to see if they did the P flash. But... I just got 19.5mpg in the tank since the reflash, where my previous tansk were 15-16 (with my constant hard driving). :confused: Hmmm.

I had this happen this week. They reprogrammed the computer- I need to see if they did the P flash. But... I just got 19.5mpg in the tank since the reflash, where my previous tansk were 15-16 (with my constant hard driving). :confused: Hmmm.


Its probably the P flash, and you were probably going from M to P. When i got flashed from M to N, i had very similar numbers to you. Since P is the same as N, except for the A/C cutoff values, it only makes sense that you got the P.

To drivers with CZ1.1 installed:

I just got my car flashed today and assume that it was flashed to P. Now can I still keep my CZ Stage 1.1 in? Has anyone experienced some ill effects to the car after reflashing to P? Also does anyone have the latest flash that Maurice put out for 1.1? Thanks in advance

To drivers with CZ1.1 installed:

I just got my car flashed today and assume that it was flashed to P. Now can I still keep my CZ Stage 1.1 in? Has anyone experienced some ill effects to the car after reflashing to P? Also does anyone have the latest flash that Maurice put out for 1.1? Thanks in advance

Maurice said soon he post some new maps, but you need tune each 8 differently... He was working on tuning an "N" flash car for WestCoastFun. I looked at the map, and it will not work on my 8 because of my high flow mods.

Thanks, Definately I will wait and see what Maurice will turn out in the next couple of weeks.

Just to clarify Maurice's last stock map for the 1.1 was back in September? If not does anyone want to share a more recent one?

Maurice said soon he post some new maps, but you need tune each 8 differently... He was working on tuning an "N" flash car for WestCoastFun. I looked at the map, and it will not work on my 8 because of my high flow mods.

You post that question here:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=41039

Gotta P flash last night. In a local bar, girl ran by in a flash screaming "I gotta pee!"

Was it a cool breeze as she went by? I bet her AC was on... :D

haha too funny

I have no clue why they skipped "O"

I checked a car today and the WDS took it to the N3Z2E(P)

I didn't have time today to compare the PID's on a "N" to the new flash.

This should explain the "what the heck is 37.3" question

http://forum.mazda6tech.com/about15.html
In engineering documents requiring revisions, letters that resemble numbers are rarely used (i.e I, O, Q, Z) to avoid confusion.

Was it a cool breeze as she went by? I bet her AC was on... :D
You mean her compressor? :D

P flash yielded more power on my car at dyno this weekend. Will post new dyno sheet as soon as Dynolab emails it to me. Time to update my sig again!

Please do. I'd like to see any gains

Just a thought.....so every one relax

but...is it possible that some or all of the power increase felt or shown through dyno is actually from the ecu being reset and not actually the new flash itself.

i dunno it is possible what do you think?

That would be a good theory except that Marietta 8 is well-educated in such matters and probably avoided that issue.

CRH

Your NOS bottle looks like a Martini Shaker Charles... :)

Dammit. Now the cat is out of the bag. All those claims of successful performance "comparisons" have been discovered to have been nothing more than a case of the d.t.'s.

CRH

If i have no mods, what will reseting the ecu do? By the way, i called charlie at MAZCARE and happened to ask him about the p flash. While on the n flash with several mods (revi intake, rb catback, flywheel, shaneracing pulleys) he made 201.5 to the wheels. After the p flash he made about 204.5hp. BTW he tested the re amemiya header, and it only produced 2hp. Just letting you guys know that a dyno test went from about 201.5 to 204.5 with the p flash

guys Marietta 8 dyno'ed 206hp. He has a cat back, a revi intake and an act pro lite flywheel. He knows what he is doing.
olddragger

I stand coreccted it was the 204.5HP
olddragger

Is Charlie at MAZCARE Marietta?

Is Charlie at MAZCARE Marietta?

Yep

SO the A/C cut off is suppose to help with the cycling of the A/C for cold to hot.

Good try, will help some but it still cycles between hot and cold at an even RPM when cruzing.

If your claiming more Hp with P, it's time for me to update from M

SO the A/C cut off is suppose to help with the cycling of the A/C for cold to hot.

No, the 'p' flash extends the operation of the A/C compressor to a higher engine RPM before it cuts off.

Here's what I think; if one is not inclined to do major mods like nitrous or turbo, then the P and subsequent flashes are probably a good way to go. Razz, If you find yourself wanting to go to the latest flash do me a favor, please. E-mail me and we can swap PCM's as I wish I still had the M flash because I have had trouble using my nitrous since I went with the N and P flashes.

One other point: My local RX-8 specialist at the dealer has confirmed a suspicion I had. I figured that there were several mapping changes in these re-flashes that Mazda does not disclose, even to the mechanics who install them. When I had the P installed my mechanic showed me a laundry list of concerns on the WDS screen that the P was designed to address and few to none had much to do with A/C compressor cycling. It seems to me that Mazda is in a fit of desperation, just as much as I am/we are, in attempting to meet their/our objectives.

CRH

just took my car in at lunch and they said i have the latest wich is n

i neeeeeeddddd the p flash or maybe reflashed to n

does any body know when the infamous p flash was released

if you look at the start of this thread that will give you an idea of when "P" was released!

just took my car in at lunch and they said i have the latest wich is n

i neeeeeeddddd the p flash or maybe reflashed to n
That is one awful drop after 7Krpm. Mine, with the "M" flash looks WAAAAAAY different. Your dyno reminds me of Richard Paul's.

Richard Paul's First Dyno stock (http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=875775&postcount=1884)

My First Dyno on the M flash (http://www.myrotarycar.com/mazdarx8/images/rx8tx800.gif)

just took my car in at lunch and they said i have the latest wich is n

i neeeeeeddddd the p flash or maybe reflashed to n

you have(or at least had during that run) a mechanical problem not a software problem. in richard's case his problem occurred earlier at teh opening of the tertiary ports. it appears his didnt open. but on yours it occurs later. after 7k. at 7250 rpm the VDI is supposed to open to retune with a shorter path for more power.with that drop in power on your graph i would say the VDI failed to open.

If I remember correctly, Jeff Abrams discovered somewhere/somehow that the VDI system was more for noise control than for power production. He also deduced that as leaky as the flex duct is it renders itself ineffective, for the most part, as a power tuning device. I tend to agree because when I disconnect my VDI solenoid the only thing that happens is a change in intake noise but the engine feels the same(as unscientific as that may be).

When I read through the Mazda MSP04 TSB there was a mention of the high rpm power drop-off and/or knocking noise being due to low metering oil pump delivery causing poor sealing of the side seals. I am under the impression that the P flash is supposed to deal with that and the WDS screen had it listed as a concern. I have also noticed that the noise I was hearing has been reduced some but I am still only getting 14.0's when I should be seeing 13.7's or better. The P flash definitely runs better, all around, but I still lose that power exactly like uacolon is. I am also thinking that when my car ran/felt best in the top end when I had the M flash. RX8-TX's graph shows the power curve exactly as it used to feel when my car last ran strong.

If we could just combine the best aspects of both flashes we would be all set with the re-flash nonsense. Geez.

CRH

Charles, when you say the P flash runs better all around and the P flash fixes the problem with poor sealing related to the oil metering pump you meant the N flash right?

you have(or at least had during that run) a mechanical problem not a software problem. in richard's case his problem occurred earlier at teh opening of the tertiary ports. it appears his didnt open. but on yours it occurs later. after 7k. at 7250 rpm the VDI is supposed to open to retune with a shorter path for more power.with that drop in power on your graph i would say the VDI failed to open.

problem is that i am using the K&n intake system

not the stock box

what would it be in that case?

rk, the problem with discussing the effects of the different flashes is that, unless we are looking directly at the maps that Mazda rewrote, we really cannot be sure exactly what is going on. When I spoke with Dan, the RX-8 specialist at my dealer, we talked a bit about how there may be several unmentioned problems that are supposed to be addressed with these different reflashes. So, when some say that the P flash ONLY deals with the A/C compressor cycle that may only be part of the story. Dan showed me the P flash list of concerns on the WDS screen and there must have been at least a dozen of them. What I am referring to is that the MSP04 campaign is said by Mazda to deal with a host of problems, including the MOP volume issue. Until I discovered and read that bulletin I had no idea what, exactly, the MOP did or does. Because of my current problem I am now much more informed about it.

I don't know what the hell is going on from the M flash to the N/P flash but I definitely have power/noise issues above 7K+/-. Nitrous use magnifies the problem and I am suspecting poor sealing. The thing is that a CEL is supposed to be tripped but that is not happening. With the M I had no intake noise that wasn't normal. Now I do.

I guess we'll see how this plays out.

CRH

If I remember correctly, Jeff Abrams discovered somewhere/somehow that the VDI system was more for noise control than for power production. He also deduced that as leaky as the flex duct is it renders itself ineffective, for the most part, as a power tuning device. I tend to agree because when I disconnect my VDI solenoid the only thing that happens is a change in intake noise but the engine feels the same(as unscientific as that may be).


CRH
Me thinks that you have the VDI and VFAD mixed up. VFAD is the Variable fresh air duct that you removed........opens around 5500 RPM. VDI opens the intakes at about 73ooRPM Different animals

Me thinks that you have the VDI and VFAD mixed up. VFAD is the Variable fresh air duct that you removed........opens around 5500 RPM. VDI opens the intakes at about 73ooRPM Different animals
where do i find info on this
is this something that should be fixed by my dealer?

I just saw another dyno from a SE forum guy. There is something definitely wrong with the power band. It falls on its face around 7K rpm.

problem is that i am using the K&n intake system

not the stock box

what would it be in that case?

still the VDI not opening. Charles has confused the VFAD, which is the piece in front of the stock intake box, with the VDI which is a valve in the intake track which opens after the tertiary ports to make a shorter more direct path for the air. I believe your VDI didnt open. it should be checked. her eis the diagram. note the connection in pic 4 that opens in pic 5 to make the shorter path


http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13884&stc=1

still the VDI not opening. Charles has confused the VFAD, which is the piece in front of the stock intake box, with the VDI which is a valve in the intake track which opens after the tertiary ports to make a shorter more direct path for the air. I believe your VDI didnt open. it should be checked. her eis the diagram. note the connection in pic 4 that opens in pic 5 to make the shorter path


http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13884&stc=1
thanks that would explain it :eek:
where did you get this pic i would like to own the whole book that came out of?

you can probably get it at your local mazda parts counter or from ebay. Its the Yamaguchi book

How can we fix this problem if our VDI is not opening like you said?

take it to the dealer and have them dignose WHY it isnt. then have them clean/replace/repair whatever to make it work

you knowi just took a look at my graph froma few weeks ago at apple blossom festival. i didnt really look at it before because of the problem with the rpm pickup makes the lines all jaggedy and hard to read. but now reconsidering it- its quite clear that between 7k and 7.5k rpm the power dropsand is just dea level from then on- it looks like perhaps mine did not open either :eek: i need to get them to send me the raw data and then replot it with the viewer software....

As promised here's the dyno graphs from this weekend. This is w/ p flash and mods in my sig. As I had said from seeing the data from WDS, some trims were present and they work.

Enjoy!

Charlie Shatzen
Mazcare Inc

The 5 runs in between were from testing the Amemiya header that has since been removed.

The 5 runs in between were from testing the Amemiya header that has since been removed.

I'd like to see you dyno the Feed Equal Length Runner Header instead :rolleyes:

Nice HP :)

I thought the A/C cuts out at 65% throttle for no more then 20 seconds. From what I read in the owners book it has nothing to do with the RPM.

Amemiya made 2hp/2lbft through stock cat, I'll gladly dyno the Feed header for you if you send it to me! How bout that for a sense of humor?

Amemiya made 2hp/2lbft through stock cat, I'll gladly dyno the Feed header for you if you send it to me! How bout that for a sense of humor?

LOL - that was a good one :D How did it sound though? I'm looking for a deeper exhaust note...

I thought the A/C cuts out at 65% throttle for no more then 20 seconds. From what I read in the owners book it has nothing to do with the RPM.

I thought it was for a mere 5 seconds when the throttle reached 65% from the drive by wire system.

LOL - that was a good one :D How did it sound though? I'm looking for a deeper exhaust note...

Almost no noticeable change in tone, I was really surprised too.

I thought it was for a mere 5 seconds when the throttle reached 65% from the drive by wire system.


If you have anyway to monitor it see if the time is really 5 seconds.

Yes, I had the various acronyms confused as dannobre stated. Sorry.

CRH

Took my 8 to the dealership today to fix a small oil pan leak and wanted the latest and greatest flash.
Can someone please tell me what flash I have?
Invoice states the following:

File Name: SW-N3K7ED000
PCM Calibration Part Number: N3K7-18-881D

Thanks!

Looks like "N", I get my car back from the dealer today for a laundry list of things. I will provide my input about the new flash after I confirm that I have it.


edit-no it is not N the letter after the E is the flash level. this number above is wrong. zoom44

I am taking mine in tomorrow, most likely they will flash me too. My 8 seems to be lean and mean as it is comparing it to some conversations i have seen on here but no hard proof to back that up. Will the N flash change that or am I paranoid. I am quite happy with the car like it is and certaintly do not want to lose power cause then I will just be insane! Thanks for any advice, *I am willing to refuse the flash and just lose the warranty, turbo is coming soon for me anyways.

Chris

If you are planning to get a turbo soon you might want to hold off on the flash. I am currently installing the Greddy turbo on my 8 which has the N flash but I will have to have the emanage retuned as it is preset to work with M. Not a huge deal, but you'll have to find a tuner or pay a shop.

I really liked the N compared to the M, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make after the turbo is on. I think it will still change some things at least, such as the flow of the oil metering pump.

there has been some talk about how this P flash affects the A/C. Well I did something interesting today. I just removed the A/C fuse from the box and my idle went from a little rough to smooooth! And no i never had the A/C turned on. Heck didnt even have the fan turned on. Seemed to have a tad bit for pep also. Hmmmm maybe this P flash has something.
Olddragger

No, the 'p' flash extends the operation of the A/C compressor to a higher engine RPM before it cuts off.

I picked up my car from the dealer today after warranty work and the P flash. Strangely enough, I feel that my car is slightly more responsive in the low to midrange, and the typical rattle I heard at 6000-6250 (3rd intake port, right?) is now happening at 7000??

I know that there is one more valve that opens at 7250, but I never heard it before. And I always heard the 6250, but now nothing. Ideas?

After reading through this thread, it seems that there is some confusion about this A/C thing. If I understand correctly, the P flash changes the A/C shutoff from 5500rpm to 7000rpm. At 5500 rpm, this might explain the complaint about weak A/C if you tend to rev relatively high often enough...so changing to 7000 would keep the compressor running to keep the flow of cold air, but does this change the WOT shutoff? So, the quote above from rxeightr is actually correct, in that this change in the shutoff (although not specific in his quote) will in fact help the A/C cycling problem of A?C output going from cold to hot.

Also, Charles....your in Detroit right? Where do you go to get your car dynoed? I live in Ann Arbor. I was thinking about all of these Mods that people are installing, and I have to wonder if the reflashes have a detrimental effect on performance from said Mods. The REVi Intake R&D may have been performed on a car with say M flash, when my car is then relfashed to N or P, is it going to be the same, better, or worse...I guess there is no way to tell until you have it done. I will assume that having an intake is better than no intake in most instances, but will the increase you might have on "M", which the intake was designed around, produce the same output or better on "N".

I would like to get a solid baseline for an 04 8, all stock with P flash and compare to anyone that dynoed their car before mods on an older flash.

Charles, PM me if you would so I can setup a dyno run at a good place.

Thanks

my dealer would not flash my car to n nor would he even do p. They say they cant recreate my problems with bad cooling, and lack of power.....

What can i do

Here's what I did today; I switched my 5W20 out for 20W50, both from Quaker State. The 20W50 eliminated the noise above 7K rpm's but the power drop-off was still there, and then some(from the thicker oil I presume). I used to run steady 13.7's before the trouble, then 14.0's with the power drop over 7K. Tonight I ran a measly 14.4. The run was slower from start to finish so I am sure the oil viscosity was causing the G-Tech measured 15 h.p. loss. The greater point is that the engine runs much quieter, all around, with the thicker oil in it. I don't plan on keeping the 20W50 in the pan but now I see there is a direct relationship between the noise above 7K and the lubrication system. Just as Mazda stated in their MSP04 list of concerns. Next comes the use of pre-mix in the tank while swapping back to the use of 5W20. If the pre-mix shows improvement of the measurable variety, then I will make some passes with the nitrous in use, as well. If both conditions show gains while using pre-mix, then my conclusion will be that there is a metering oil pump problem with my engine that is not showing a CEL.

In the meantime, I will visit my mechanic and see if he will consider switching me back to the m flash. I will also attempt to contact Mazda for a little conversation on the matter as I have an idea for them.

Here's a question I thought of tonight; Is Mazda's behavior regarding this latest "loss of power" issue mirroring their behavior when it was first discovered that the U.S. versions of the RX-8 didn't actually have 255 h.p.? When they had to down rate the h.p. to 238 they made various offers to placate their customers, including a buy-back offer. Why are they not being equally pro-active and seriously following up on these concerns of ours? I guess I'll find out over the next few weeks.

I am thinking that if we could somehow overlay the low to midrange driveability of the N/P maps with the top-end power of the M maps we could have the best of both worlds and one helluva ride.

BTW, my mechanic told me that the P flash was to also address the "throttle hesitation" issue by altering the injector duty cycle, somehow. To that extent, they got it right. Very crisp response and my exhaust note crackles like it is supposed to.

CRH

How and where is the MOP? How much would it cost to install?

Perhaps Charles needs to buy one from RB.

I was just on the RB website and I am thinking along the same lines as you, Razz. If the MOP mod is for boosted engines perhaps I have hit the sealing limits of the factory MOP piston settings with my mods and, especially, the nitrous. The weird thing is that I knew nothing of the MOP's functions until I began reading Mazda's MSP04 bulletin so they have some knowledge of this matter, too. The thing is that there are people who don't have mods on their cars who are also experincing the problem. I would hate to needlessly spend $275 to fix something that Mazda cures with a PCM remapping.

The MOP is located on the passenger side of the engine and is somewhat hidden by the thermostat housing. To remove it requires removal of the battery and tray.

CRH

My mechanic is replacing the MOP on cars that come in with a CEL. I'll get the code tonight when I go see him. It is basically the same fix that RB has done. It is a larger bored out cylinder and piston to pump more oil under high loads.

Maybe we should start a thread about the MOP and the 7K loss - so we can leave the P-Flash thread un-polluted.. Just a thought as I type away... :rolleyes:

Does Mazda need to lift the hood to flash the PCM, or do they use the port in the passenger compartment?

I don't want to void my warranty by having the REVi, so if they don't need to look under the hood, so much the better.

Thanks.

I have a load of mods on my car and my dealer has never hassled me about them. The issue of warranty voidance has been discussed much in the past and the Magnusson-Moss Act clarifies things.

In order to re-flash the PCM the tech will use the OBDII port under the steering wheel. Either way, you'll be fine.

Nem, to the extent that you suggest the power loss and P flash issues should remain exclusive it also seems to me that they may be related in some way. It is becoming a firmer belief of mine that Mazda engineers are attempting to placate a number of different types of RX-8 enthusiasts. First, we have the true noobs who have no idea of the history the rotary and the fact that we must be cautious of flooding issues, among other things. Then we have the mild enthusiasts who prefer performance but still complain about fuel economy. Then we have people, like myself, who are pushing the limits of the Renesis and discovering the inherent weaknesses that crop up at certain levels of power. That MOP replacement you mention is exactly why I am cautious about spending $275 on the Racing Beat mod when I may get it for free from my dealer/Mazda. I can only hope that Mazda shows themselves to be open to input and advice from the different levels of enthusiasts out here and we can all work together to fully exploit the performance potential of the RX-8 while still satisfying certain federal regs.

CRH

Took my 8 to the dealership today to fix a small oil pan leak and wanted the latest and greatest flash.
Can someone please tell me what flash I have?
Invoice states the following:

File Name: SW-N3K7ED000
PCM Calibration Part Number: N3K7-18-881D

Thanks!

that number is not a RX8 number. ask them to clarify

that number is not a RX8 number. ask them to clarify

I noticed the numbers are the same as per Mazda Service Bulletin No. 01/007/05 issued 2/2/2005 except the "C" has been changed to "D" in both the file name and part number.
Does this mean I have the "P" flash?
I own an '05 M/T RX-8.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-007-05-1432.pdf

Does anyone have the TSB number for the P-Flash? If you have it in the .pdf format that would be great. I cant find it on the Rosenthal Mazda page that is sticky'd. OR if you know where the TSB can be found online that might work also. It always helps if i have the TSB's that i am going in for and the work i want done. Thanks!

I'm still confused about how (or if) the dealer shows the flash version on the invoice, as I recently requested "the most recent PCM calibration" when I had my car in, and when I picked up the car, I was told they did reflash it. (the dealer seemed to have no reservations about updating my car)

The invoice shows a N3H6-18-881A (6-sp. trans.) which I think is the number listed on the Feb. 2005 TSB. (01-008/05 "Engine No Start, Lack of Power...") I haven't really noticed a difference in the performance of the car, at least a difference I can really be certain about.

im curious i need someone with navi and the p flash. i think i found a way to find out what flash u have by going through a back door on the naviagation,

first you have to go into set up menu.
2nd go to version and makesure it tells what version you are running.
now go The back door. which is Up-up-up- down-down-down-up up .
after you do this it should take you to screen you have not seen before.
Once you ar ein the scene go to software and click on teh button to enter. once you enter go all teh way left to teh last option and click on it. it should say what ecu flash you have.

It says main ecu M

mine says-

main cpu (m) ver. 04.06.2002.9
_________________________________
main cpu (F) ver u9.95 2003

not sure this will help....

also while i was in there, i hit cold start, and it restarted the nav unit and then when it rebooted it now thinks im in chicago!! how do i get it to realize im in arizona? hope it notices on its own...

I'm still confused about how (or if) the dealer shows the flash version on the invoice, as I recently requested "the most recent PCM calibration" when I had my car in, and when I picked up the car, I was told they did reflash it. (the dealer seemed to have no reservations about updating my car)

The invoice shows a N3H6-18-881A (6-sp. trans.) which I think is the number listed on the Feb. 2005 TSB. (01-008/05 "Engine No Start, Lack of Power...") I haven't really noticed a difference in the performance of the car, at least a difference I can really be certain about.

When the ticket is invoiced and filed with the warranty dept. the dealer uses a "part number main cause". You may find this silly but the people that pay the claims really don't care what level the car is on so the dealer uses the same PCM part number every time. If you really want to know what flash level you are on you would need to know what level the WDS at the dealership was on the day you went in.

i really want this flash doneeeeee

The part number on the AT "P" flash which I watched the tech install today is :

N3Z1-18881-P

This was done under warranty and in accordance with MSP04 (MAZDA Special Program) for VINs built prior to 03.12.2004 within a specific VIN range... which my car falls in.

As Snap-On states .... the invoice documentaion only specifically addresses the MSP04 program for warranty re-imbursement.

The part number on the AT "P" flash which I watched the tech install today is :

N3Z1-18881-P

This was done under warranty and in accordance with MSP04 (MAZDA Special Program) for VINs built prior to 03.12.2004 within a specific VIN range... which my car falls in.

As Snap-On states .... the invoice documentaion only specifically addresses the MSP04 program for warranty re-imbursement.

Seeing that your 2004 A/T was updated to N3Z1-18-881-"P" and my 2005 M/T was updated to N3K7-18-881-"D", I believe the two model years have different flash levels.
2004 RX-8s are up to level "P" and 2005 RX-8s are up to level "D".

Check Mazda service bulletin 01-007/05 issued 2/2/2005 and you will see there are different PCM calibration part numbers for each different model year and transmission version. Also notice the only thing changed in the PCM calibration part numbers are the last letter. "N" to "P" for 2004 models and "C" to "D" for 2005 models.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-007-05-1432.pdf

What do you think? Am I way of base?

It says main ecu M

Mine does not say "ecu" ???

As posted by snap-on:

When the ticket is invoiced and filed with the warranty dept. the dealer uses a "part number main cause"

Thanks snap-on. I think I'll just not worry about it, it seems to be running at least as well as it did before the reflash.

Seeing that your 2004 A/T was updated to N3Z1-18-881-"P" and my 2005 M/T was updated to N3K7-18-881-"D", I believe the two model years have different flash levels.
2004 RX-8s are up to level "P" and 2005 RX-8s are up to level "D".

Check Mazda service bulletin 01-007/05 issued 2/2/2005 and you will see there are different PCM calibration part numbers for each different model year and transmission version. Also notice the only thing changed in the PCM calibration part numbers are the last letter. "N" to "P" for 2004 models and "C" to "D" for 2005 models.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-007-05-1432.pdf

What do you think? Am I way of base?

Nope ... I'd say you you've got it figured out. European, Aussie, JDM, etc. all have different part numbers and flash levels too.

I noticed the numbers are the same as per Mazda Service Bulletin No. 01/007/05 issued 2/2/2005 except the "C" has been changed to "D" in both the file name and part number.
Does this mean I have the "P" flash?
I own an '05 M/T RX-8.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-007-05-1432.pdf


see i actually went loking for that bulletin thru my posts. that bulletin i thought was the one that was recinded because of programming errors. I wondered if that code on your post may be a 2005 cali flash etc. but i thought they didnt actually go to that file numbering system. i will look more.

Got my 8 reprogram today campaign ssp61, was with the mecanic when he did it and saw on is screen part #n3z1-18-88P. Will try it this weekend and see if mpg will change on a 4 hrs trip and will post results.

Hi everyone, newbie here. I just took my RX-8 in for squeaky brakes and using your collective expert advice to complain about stalling in order to get the PCM flashed, they did so. Based on the VIN, I have an April 2004 model that came with the "M" flash. I think I can answer one of the questions in this thread. What does the new flash do? I was told by the service manager that the new flash increases oil injection into the chamber and that I would have to check my oil level more often. This supposedly will help alleviate the stalling issue some people have experienced. I was also told this may improve gas mileage. I will run through a couple tanks and post an update (I have been averaging right at 15 mpg with 90/10 city/highway driving). I live in Las Vegas so cold weather isn't an issue here. The 64k question is though, what flash version did I receive? (the service manager didn't know and it wasn't on the invoice. She said they had to have a Mazda engineer come out to Vegas AND download information from Japan in order to flash the RX-8's that were awaiting service at my dealership).

M flash did that but not N or P. the person is wrong. second someone there should be able to tell you what flash you are at now. but since they seem to have admitted not knowing how to update their wds with out help from a engineer from japan( the wds is used by the whole ford family- the dealer next door should be able to show them. hell i dont even work for a dealership and i suck at most things it people do everyday and I COULD PRGRAM THE WDS AND DO A FLASH) maybe thye really dont have any clue. if that is really tru run to another dealer and never go back. except you're in vegas and i would swear every dealer there is the same- the worst of the worst in the nation.

Wow - WDS is so simple.... It's a touch screen for G's sake.

Today after getting a check engine light I took mine in to get it fixed. Turned out to be a defective gas cap they had to replace.

Anyway back to the thread. I had "P" done while I was there. I don't notice a diffrence in anything. I went from "M" to "P" and drives/feels exactly the same. After reading what some people wrote I was expecting some diffrence. Oh well at least I got up to date :)

Here's a strange thing; I had my PCM re-flashed last week. A decision on part of my mechanic after I complained about the noise and loss of power issue. I thought I still had the problem(s) a few days after getting back from the dealer so I did a little detective work of my own. I took the battery, cover, and tray out and measured the values and voltages at the APV motor and metering pump. I found what I thought to be insufficient voltage supply to the metering oil pump so I figured I would have my mechanic re-measure it to confirm. After I put the battery back in and reset the e-shaft profile, a couple days later I measured an easy 13.9@101 mph. This puts me right back to where I was before all of these problems. Plus, the engine sounded as smooth as a Swiss watch all the way to redline. Next comes a couple of nitrous passes to be sure everything is cool. I'll also try a number of different power levels to see which works best.

CRH

i got the p flash yesterday. im not sure what flash im coming from, but the p flash definitely feels a little stronger, i cant necessarily say its more HP, but it feels like the engine is a bit more willing to spool up when running on the freeway.

but i really hope the awful knocking sound is gone for good, but i doubt it.

ok, i'm a COMPLETE newbie as far as the flashes go.

first off, i've looked all over this thread to find out what the hell an M flash does vs a P flash. what the heck is a Pflash? what does it do? i finally noticed on this page it supposidly makes for more power or whatever. but i have a good feeling the guys at my mazda dealership are idiots and would have no clue whether it was flashed or not.

when i bought it, i asked if it had been flashed. the dealer said "oh i'm sure blagity blagity that it has blagity blagity..." but i really don't even know that he knew at all what i was talkin about.

i have a deep concern as to why ALL the Mazda dealerships aren't sending out fliers and phone calls to their Rx8 buyers telling them to COME IN and GET YOUR CAR FLAHSED. if they're spending money to fix our computers, then why do i have to go to the dang forums to find out my car is screwed up?

so, to restate my questions. What is a p-flash? How do i KNOW that they've P-flashed my car? SHOULD I pflash it? Why isn't Mazda obligated to send out the 411 on the behalf of their customers that have already spent 20k+ on their cars?

because your car isnt screwed up. go read the stickies about flashes.

k. thanx. already i'm starting to feel better!

just to be certain here, so the only way i can find out what flash i have is to have the dealer check? if this is an annoying question, forgive me.

just to be certain here, so the only way i can find out what flash i have is to have the dealer check? if this is an annoying question, forgive me.
Look in the drivers front door area for the build date of your car-Anything after april of 04-you should be ok.

manufactured sept. 2003. any idea on the flash i might have?

rofl rx8bydocabe.

oh, Zoom, even so, i've read the stickies. still don't know what a Pflash does? i might have skipped over it, but i only found that Hymee program that they were talking about using a palm OS or linux vs windows. (cool by the way, check it out if you haven't).

even if mine IS built post april 04, should i get a pflash?

no the only real reason to get a flash is if you have a problem. the only thing we are CERTAIN that P does over N is change the way the aircon works. N may or may not cchange the way the car performs over M. but you have at least M so your all good. the next time you have a regular service you can ask them to update it. by then we might be on Q or R etc.

bydoc- you should have them make sure you are on M. just have them run your vin to make sure MSP04 is CLOSED for your car. If not they HAVE to do it according to Mazda.

word. perfect answer. i love these forums now. was flustered at the responses when i thread jacked this last guy's post. but dang man, i was a new user...as in, NOT familiar with these forums. thanx for the help zoom44.

The WDS screen will display which concerns are being addressed with the latest flash level but it doesn't say HOW those concerns/issues are being handled. I saw about a dozen concerns when my mechanic showed me the screen but I can't remember most of what it said.

CRH

you can flash yourself with the passthru equipment and a 1 day membership on mazdatech.com ($20)

The WDS screen will display which concerns are being addressed with the latest flash level but it doesn't say HOW those concerns/issues are being handled. I saw about a dozen concerns when my mechanic showed me the screen but I can't remember most of what it said.

CRH

charles i would bet that what you were seeing is all of the changes since the first flash level.

I can't believe I just read all 15 pages of this shit and the only thing I got out of it was that the AC gets disabled 1500 RPM later than normal with this new flash. You would think that this would hurt (and not help) maximum performance.

I am really satisfied with the n flash. I may just stay here until something really better is available
olddragger

I can't believe I just read all 15 pages of this shit and the only thing I got out of it was that the AC gets disabled 1500 RPM later than normal with this new flash. You would think that this would hurt (and not help) maximum performance.


it wasnt done for maximum performance it was done to help alleviate some of the poor ac cooling complaints

it wasnt done for maximum performance it was done to help alleviate some of the poor ac cooling complaints

I thought they fixed ac issues with some amplifier. Regardless, this is another reason why I sure as hell don't want or need this flash. :)

I think that posts by Marietta8 and CRH tend to lend a little bit more to this flash than just the A/C cutoff. I myself noticed a change from M to N and then from N to P... My car has never felt faster, and definately more power in the low/mid range. I drive the N in the city, and a 600 mile road trip, and the same with P...it felt diffferent. At this point, with my feeling of increased performance, I am beginning to let go if my mileage concerns.

My car was previously suffer more from the power drop at about 6000-7000, and now it feels as though it continues to build power through to 7000, and starts to drop then....also, it seems to only do this in 1st and 2nd gears. I hit 3rd, and it pulls strong to redline.

Obviously, I cant confirm what the actual changes in the P flash are, but I feel there is more to it.

Anyone able to find out specifically what else the flash does?

Umm... I'm getting a DYNO on the 18th. Before an install of a flywheel.

Maybe I should get the P flash and then get another dyno to see the results.

You guys have to convince me first that it is worth while updating.

I have read at least one story mentioning that the author experienced a change after a few hundred miles and the engne began to run better. This story has been told by new owners who regarded it as a PCM programming that allowed for break-in time. This same story has been told by someone who recently had flash upgrades done. Now, my own engine is running better and I can't figure out why(?). After all that trouble, now the car just hauls off with 13.9's!. The nitrous doesn't have quite the punch that it did before but it doesn't make the scary noises it used to, either. I think I'll still have the MOP mod done but I am also wondering what the Hell is going on with my car. Taking a ride in Rotary IT's car was a good reminder of where my car is, in terms of performance, and where it has come from. I am now wondering if I have just been taking my own car for granted and getting used to it. I dunno.

CRH

:mad:

I took my car to Mazda of Oakland to get the N to P flash (& get the scratched front seatbacks fixed), and they told me they did it.

Well, my handy CanScan tells me that they were lying...I still have the N flash.

When I confronted my 'service advisor' about their fib, he said 'we can't flash the PCM unless there is a specific customer complaint that it addresses'. It must take all of, what, 2 minutes of a mechanic's time to do the PCM update? This tells me what customer satisfaction (and honesty) is worth to this sad lot.

Given that I don't like being lied to, AND think I'm entitled to get the most Mazda can give me from my 8, it is time to shop for a new dealership.

I think this question was already asked, but WHAT IS THE MAGIC COMPLAINT THAT WILL MAKE THE MAZDA DEALER COUGH UP THE CODE?

There are several but the best one is loss of power above 6,000 rpm's. That one is specifically listed in the MSP04 TSB.

CRH

yep, i hit em with a loss of power and they gave it to me like it was going out of style.

to add to the discussion, yes i have definitely felt more power in the 3-4k range in 5th and 6th gears, and the car seems much more willing to let loose. yesterday i chirped it into second with the dsc on, and i wasnt trying to, i did shift at redline, but mine never does that usually. i have noticed several smaller areas where there seems to be some gains in power, but nothing thats going to snap my neck with speed. the car seems a lot more fun to drive after the last flash.

anyone dynoed it yet?

Yup, see results in sig below. Dyno sheet is posted around here somewhere.

"bydoc- you should have them make sure you are on M. just have them run your vin to make sure MSP04 is CLOSED for your car. If not they HAVE to do it according to Mazda." by zoom 44

thanx zoom. just a couple of questions regarding this. what do you mean by having them make sure MSP04 is "CLOSED"? your caps are making me think i should be alarmed. and do you know if i can just have them do this over the phone? run my vin and be able to tell me that is.

MSP04 included mandatory flashing to at least M level. Mazda wants all 8s to at least this level. they were quite unhappy with the dealerships a little while ago when they realized they only had 60% completion. If they run your vin it will show them MSP04 along with the recalls etc. It will eitehr say open or closed. if its closed then you are at least on M and "okay". If it is open they have to flash your car to M or newer and since they will have updated their WDS recently then you will almost assuredly get N and if they are a good place you will get P.

you should be alarmed if you arent on M. after the first "round" when they reassessed their completion rate Dealers were given explicit instructions to contact folks who needed updating still and get them in. For your car not to have been done is complete lazyness or incompetence of the part of your regular service center.

excellent, im glad i wasnt just imagining those power gains stashed like easter eggs in the powerband. that dyno shows a very consistant trim in the A/F ratio.

thanks marietta!

Yup, see results in sig below. Dyno sheet is posted around here somewhere.
Marietta your dyno's were done with aftermarket wheel/tire combo correct?

Correct. Weight diff of 5lbs per wheel. I wish I could have done a same day back to back test to determine gain % from wheels if any. The dyno owner did mention seeing small losses when some front drive cars (which shall remain nameless but their initials are H.O.N.D.A.) came in w/bigger flash wheel/tire combos. Have you done any comparisons?

204 vs 201 is not enough variance to prove anything when the tests are done on different days w/multiple changesmade to the car.you vcan have that much diference on back to back runs just because of changes in engine temp or fan placement.

204 vs 201 is not enough variance to prove anything when the tests are done on different days w/multiple changesmade to the car.you vcan have that much diference on back to back runs just because of changes in engine temp or fan placement.


While what you say is true, it does not negate the value of the data. True, if you were developing a race engine and wanted to see if a particular change made a difference you would try and dyno immediately and in a controlled environment.

We all drive in the real world. I personally do not know of any MAZDA dealerships with a dyno to do immediate before and after "P" runs. A car may make X power one day, and Y power another. As we all know, in the real world the the car and environmental conditions are always changing, so saying that data does not prove anything, while technically accurate, the tone implies that the data is invalid, which is not the case.

Just because you dyno one day at 205 does not mean you'll produce 205 the next day. Even if you did it back to back on a dyno, it does not mean you'll do it tomorrow on the street. It also does not mean you won't. The point is the data, and Charlie has plenty of data since his first dyno to his most recent, indicates his mods, flashes and baseline car combine to show significant improvements over time. Included in that data gathering is the "P". I'd wager Charlie is in the top 1% for total dyno runs in a street driven 8, certainly in the US and perhaps in the world. He makes changes and he runs to the dyno.

I think this practice of discarding or minimizing data simply because it is not produced under controlled laboratory conditions misses the forest for the trees.

No one can exactly reproduce the same results day in and day out. Even the guys with all the technical resources in the world can't do it. The purpose, as we all know is the big picture, not the granular single run.

You are right, it does not prove anything, it also does not disprove anything.

I'm not trying to be difficult or a PITA .. I'm just saying 99.9 % of us don't run to the dyno like Charlie does ... and we never will. Since his is the best, maybe only "P" dyno data we've got to date, let's just take it at face value and not over analyze it. It is a piece of data in a long line of datums he has gathered.

do they document an updated flash in the invoice if they did it, say after an oil change?

I love it!

I got the reflash yesterday and after 50 miles, I love it. It felt to have a better mid range just out the door, and all the driving (Houston rush hour trafic) was more relax? compliant? , i don't know, just better.

All is based on my butt-dyno. I must admit that even when I re-fill the washer fluid the car seems to run better, but it this case I do belive it runs better (besides placebo effects).

ok, i just talked over the phone to a mazda service manager, and he told me he couldn't tell me what flash i'm running just by giving him my vin number. he told me that i would have to bring my car in to hook it up to some type of computer to be able to tell. is that true?

i'm bringing my car in next week for them to check. now what do i have to tell them to convince them to update to the most recent flash? and how the hell will i know if they did actually reflash instead of B.S. me and say they did?

I'm not trying to be difficult or a PITA .. I'm just saying 99.9 % of us don't run to the dyno like Charlie does ... and we never will. Since his is the best, maybe only "P" dyno data we've got to date, let's just take it at face value and not over analyze it. It is a piece of data in a long line of datums he has gathered.

i dont want to be a pita either. i was going from teh numbers at face value without knowing the history behind them. you have to admit we see that kind of stuff all the time and its hard not to question the data. thanks. and with a name like Charlie i think i can give him the benefit of the doubt.

best regards

charlie:)

bydoc- tell them they certainly can do so. all they have to do is look up your service history with a vin inquiry like they were looking for recalls. if the person you are talking to insists they cant do that either get his manager of get them to call the tech line and be given lessons on how to do it. if they still cant/wont then get on the phone to Mazda customer assisstance on your cell phone while you are still there 1 800 222 5500. tell them what is going on and ask them to get someone to call the dealership and explain to them how to do their job. if that doesnt work find anothr dealer.

ok, i just talked over the phone to a mazda service manager, and he told me he couldn't tell me what flash i'm running just by giving him my vin number. he told me that i would have to bring my car in to hook it up to some type of computer to be able to tell. is that true?

i'm bringing my car in next week for them to check. now what do i have to tell them to convince them to update to the most recent flash? and how the hell will i know if they did actually reflash instead of B.S. me and say they did?

Yes, it's true they have to query your ECU to see what software you currently have. If you're not up to at least M they should reflash you, doubtless to the most current, P. If you have no problems with M or N, maybe you don't want P anyway. If they say they reflashed and don't do it, the next query will call their bluff.

but they can ascertain that he is at least on M by checking if MSP04 is closed in the system. and they can also see if he is at a higher level then M by looking at the warrenty claims to see if a flash has been done since the MSP04 flash.

i just talked to another service manager, she said that i've had it reflashed twice according to the vin i gave her over the phone, but she wouldn't be able to tell me which flash i'm currently running via that info.
question, if i do bring it in for them to check which flash i have, will they charge me?

they might but i havent heard of anyone still under warrenty being charged.

Well because of your build date the first would have been the MSP04 M flash. But in order for them to do another flash the WDS had to have told them there was an update available. So that must have been at least when N was available. without hooking up to the wds or a canscan or hymee scanalyser we wont know exactly but i think its a good guess to say you are on N. so you are good to go.

ok, i just talked over the phone to a mazda service manager, and he told me he couldn't tell me what flash i'm running just by giving him my vin number. he told me that i would have to bring my car in to hook it up to some type of computer to be able to tell. is that true?

i'm bringing my car in next week for them to check. now what do i have to tell them to convince them to update to the most recent flash? and how the hell will i know if they did actually reflash instead of B.S. me and say they did?

My service manager told me that Mazda has a complete online history of everything the dealership has ever done to my vehicle. Mazda Tech Line can look everything up. If you've never been flashed, they should have known the version by the build date. Maybe the info is too hard to get through Mazda Tech Line, so he gave you the answer that was easier for him.

khoney that situation has been rectified now. we're pretty certain what level he is on.

204 vs 201 is not enough variance to prove anything when the tests are done on different days w/multiple changesmade to the car.you vcan have that much diference on back to back runs just because of changes in engine temp or fan placement.

To some extent I agree with you Zoom, however a dyno jet dyno has a pretty accurate weather station built in that does correct for atmospheric conditions and I can say with some certainty that my readings are repeatable each time, everytime unless something has changed on the car. My RX7 was aprime example. I had tuned the engine (MoTeC M4 Pro) in December and made no changes after that. A friend visited in July and had not been to the dyno before
and wanted to see the car in action. We went, strapped the car down, made 3 pulls and the numbers were within 10ths of where it was in December.

I always test with the same tire pressures and strap down the same way each time for consistency as well as fan placement.

You really should dyno your own car if possible to see where you are and where you are going. I am certainly proud that I have a really strong car but I am truly more interested in whether the numbers go up or down so as to know whether changes were good, bad, or the same. With the small gains that are possible on the 8 as compared to previous rotary powered cars, I do believe that the few hp and lbft of torque are legit. If the dyno were in my shop the tests would be more back to back and controlled but it's not so I have to go when I can to test.

Charlie Shatzen
Mazcare Inc

i had not read many of your previous post but when derwankel let me in on some things i had this to say-

i dont want to be a pita either. i was going from teh numbers at face value without knowing the history behind them. you have to admit we see that kind of stuff all the time and its hard not to question the data. thanks. and with a name like Charlie i think i can give him the benefit of the doubt.

best regards

charlie

so i understand more now and i have a better appreciation for your results:) i did take the oppurtunity to dyno my car. several things went wrong during the dyno which gave me reason not to trust the results. however the graph is telling- its quite obvious that one of the things that went wrong is that my VDI did not open. the 30hp drop where it should have opened and no recovery, just a fairly flat line from there, made it obvious.

What did you do to fix the vdi not opening and what caused it?

what kind of dyno too?

dynojet dyno. havent done anything. the car was hot that night. it might have been heat related. since i realized what the issue is/was i havent had much oppurtunity to run it to see if it is a recurring problem or not. im not to concerned as you can tell. there is very few reasons for it not to open so it wont be difficult to correct when i have the time IF it happens again.

Zoom44,

Would it be safe to say, that if the 'P' is suppose to address the AC issues, then the older TSB where they change the amplifier did not fix the problem? Or was this another issue introduced through the 'M' and/or 'N'?