n/t

MT

Better for what? Your criteria could be entirely different than mine - if the most important thing is how comfortable and easy it is for your 2 hour each way commute in stop-n-go traffic, then you might feel the auto is better. If you're concerned about resale value in 3 years, then I'd suggest that the manual trans is better... You'll have to go into more detail with your question if you want any meaningful answers.

Regards,
Gordon

Gas mileage: manual (if they were the same power... hehe)
Longevity: manual
Service: manual
Fun: manual

Ease of use: auto

Sadly 90% of America can't drive a manual car so the remaining 10% of us really get happy when we're behind the wheel! :)

What about all the stories I hear about manual being in the shops because of something? I am sorry, I am not that intelligent with cars.

Originally posted by Bankotsu
What about all the stories I hear about manual being in the shops because of something?

negative

As someone so appropriately said:

"Manuals are for people who LOVE TO DRIVE, Automatics are for people who love to steer"

OK thanks for the replies guys. Now I just need to convince my dad that I want a Manual. If he disagress, won't matter because he is still paying for my RX-8. Yes I am a newbie driver. I drove for about 2 years now.

Well, good for you man!!!! There are so few young folks these days looking to learn how to drive manual that I think it's great.

I have no idea what part of the world you are in, but if you are in the US then your biggest problem might be finding a teacher for manual trans, but they are cheaper to buy in general and with the Mazda you get a whole lot more car. The major down side here in the US is that the resale value of manuals is normally less than a comparable automatic because you are substantially limiting the market for the car on resale. That might be a hang up for your dad. But man if you want the most out of this car . . . manual is the way to go.

-H

man i wish my old man would have got me a 30,000 car when i was a kid.just tell your dad that a manual will improve your driver skills and get better gas mileage,i could work?

Originally posted by Haze
Well, good for you man!!!! There are so few young folks these days looking to learn how to drive manual that I think it's great.


Is this true or an exageration? In Australia (at least where I've been) all males are expected to learn manual. It's perfectly normal for someone to toss a friend the keys to their car / work vehicle and expect that person to drive manual.

In fact, I don't know a single guy with an auto-only license. I know quite a few girls with them though.

Auto or manual? The only auto car I've ever owned, I spent $2500 on converting to manual :)

-pete

Originally posted by Bankotsu
What about all the stories I hear about manual being in the shops because of something? I am sorry, I am not that intelligent with cars.

its usually because driver error. like people who ride the clutch or try to power shift with the clutch and who just abuse theor clutch all together. if used and maitnaied properly it should have no problems at all.

Originally posted by rpm_pwr
Is this true or an exageration? In Australia (at least where I've been) all males are expected to learn manual. In fact, I don't know a single guy with an auto-only license.It's sad but true. The simple fact is that the vast majority of Murrikins drive slushboxes, so that's what they learn in. There's no such thing as an automatic-only licence (at least here in Texas; other states may differ).

It's another sad fact that most folks here never engage the handbrake. Perhaps that's why they refer to it as an "emergency brake." Hill starts are done with the left foot on the brake and the right on the gas, and parked vehicles are left rocking on the transmission in "Park".

I borrowed a friend's Saturn one day, and pulled the handbrake when I parked it. He thought I'd broken his car because it wouldn't move when he engaged reverse to back out of my driveway!

There are many factors to consider when choosing transmission type, but the primary factor is likely to be either driving experience or driving environment (i.e. stop n' go commuting).

The effect on resale value can be affected by the type of car. The RX-8 is inteded as an enthusiasts car, and the significant power difference between auto and manual models will help the resale values of the manual transmission. Corollas, neons, camry's and other mainstream midsize cars are adversely affected with a manual. But how many people really buy a car because of high residual values? (they are a distinct minority) A new car is a depreciating asset, to expect otherwise is foolish (there are exceptions, I know)

As for maintenance issues, I currently own a 95 Beretta that just turned 140,000 miles on the original clutch - and I am not perfect all the time. It is a self adjusting hydraulic clutch (for whatever that's worth), so there may be some wear advantages with this type. Most of the horror stories from the last 2 years regarding 6 speed celicas and RSX's come from those who were not paying attention or racing, and missed a shift (i.e. while coming from 5th gear at 6500 RPM, they miss 6th, drop to 4th, and over-rev the engine). Other maintenance issues are derived from clutch riders. My thought on this is only depress the clutch when changing gears, although clutch slipping from a stop on a hill is necessary if someone is behind you.

Regarding driver control....multi-tasking (talking on the phone while eating, applying make-up or other preening processes) is nearly impossible with a manual transmission. I have been guilty of it myself, I am a hypocrite. But I did get a handsfree device for my cell phone (less than $25 US), and is the only way I use the phone in the car. Lesson here: Never try to do too much at 70 MPH!

Finally - choose the tranny the fits your needs/desires, if you can. Ultimately, if you buy the car and don't like, I think the RX-8 will be easy to sell in the secondary market regardless of tranny type (at least for the 1st 12 months after release).

Originally posted by rpm_pwr


Is this true or an exageration? In Australia (at least where I've been) all males are expected to learn manual.

And yet another reason why the U.S. doesn't have good F1 drivers and why NASCAR is so popular.

Originally posted by desmo996


And yet another reason why the U.S. doesn't have good F1 drivers and why NASCAR is so popular. NASCAR sucks :(

Originally posted by Haze
The major down side here in the US is that the resale value of manuals is normally less than a comparable automatic because you are substantially limiting the market for the car on resale. That might be a hang up for your dad.

I would like to think that even in the good old USA, it would be the other way around for the RX-8 as well as other enthusiast cars of this type.

Originally posted by RXhusker
As someone so appropriately said:

"Manuals are for people who LOVE TO DRIVE, Automatics are for people who love to steer"
More like:

"Automatics are for people who love to talk on their cell phone and sip their latte" :p

Originally posted by desmo996


And yet another reason why the U.S. doesn't have good F1 drivers and why NASCAR is so popular.

Uh, NASCAR cars are all strictly manual, F1 has trick shifter schemes that are almost like automatics. I don't see the parallel here, sorry.:confused:

Originally posted by Racer X-8


Uh, NASCAR cars are all strictly manual, F1 has trick shifter schemes that are almost like automatics. I don't see the parallel here, sorry.:confused:

What a NASCAR driver is thinking during a race:
" There is a left turn... do i need to shift? Nah... Crap... another left turn .... shift.... nah.....another left turn...... shift?.... Nah... Maybe I'll slow down..... Actually I don't neeed to slow down because my car has restrictors anyway... Oh shit ....another left turn!!!

People who learn to drive stick tend to have a better understanding of car dynamics and performance. My wife learned and only drove A/T. I forced her to buy a manual and she loves it. She says she has much better control of the car and definately a much better car driver. I very sure Juan Pablo Montoya grew up with A/T (Sarcasm). :p

The resale value between an auto and a manual car is not that much. It's no more than a few hundred bucks ($200-$400). That's certainly less than the original sticker price to add the auto option. But that's only true for regular cars. In performance cars, the price difference is even less. There's instance where a manual will carry a premium over an auto.

From what I see here in Florida, more females drive manual than males.

There's instance where a manual will carry a premium over an auto.


Quite. I was kind of forced into paying too much for my maxima, mainly because in months of searching within 100 miles I had found two SE 5-speeds, and one was a salvage title. Plus it was even more of a rarity that it was all OEM options. Hopefully I'll get an enthusiast buyer to appreciate the same factors.

I was also looking for 6-speed Type II Legend coupes. Only found one, and they played the rare card. Would have rather been rolling in that had a mechanics inspection not found quite a bit wrong with it that the seller was unwilling to compensate for.

Same token, an auto RX-8 may be somewhat of a rarity in the future, so someone might be willing to pay a bit more for one.

Originally posted by Hercules
NASCAR sucks :(
Herc! Where do you think you are, Fresh Alloy?

"Automatics are for people who love to talk on their cell phone and sip their latte"

While reading the paper with a poodle in their lap.

Originally posted by desmo996
And yet another reason why the U.S. doesn't have good F1 drivers and why NASCAR is so popular. Shyeah, right. The reason why NASCAR is so popular in the US is because it's on practically every weekend, the TV coverage is terrific compared to any of the other major racing series/events, and it is much easier to follow for those whose racing experience is limited to stoplights. Besides, in alot of cases, it actually is good racing (although Daytona and Talledega are the most boring races I've ever seen, IMHO).

The reason why the U.S. currently doesn't have good F1 drivers is because most U.S. drivers grew up watching U.S. racing series, and therefore ascribed to them instead, and they will normally go where the money takes them. It's along the same lines of more U.S. boys growing up wanting to play baseball, basketball, or football, than going overseas to play rugby or soccer.

---jps

Originally posted by Sputnik

The reason why the U.S. currently doesn't have good F1 drivers is because most U.S. drivers grew up watching U.S. racing series, and therefore ascribed to them instead, and they will normally go where the money takes them. It's along the same lines of more U.S. boys growing up wanting to play baseball, basketball, or football, than going overseas to play rugby or soccer.

---jps

I agree with you about the money and TV the coverage, but I have to disagree with you reagarding your sport comparison. You can't expect a baseball player to perform in soccer. A race car driver is a race car driver. You are either good at it or your not. If you're not, you can not compete with with the big boys in the world arena.

Originally posted by desmo996
And yet another reason why the U.S. doesn't have good F1 drivers and why NASCAR is so popular.

Sorry, absolutely unrelated. There hasn't been a driver-actuated manual transmission (ie where the drivers press a clutch pedal and move a shift lever) in F1 for over 10 years. In fact, most F1 drivers switched to automatic trans road cars so they could practice left foot braking. It would be a safe bet that Jenson Button and the other F1 kiddies don't even know how to heel/toe! ;)

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


It would be a safe bet that Jenson Button and the other F1 kiddies don't even know how to heel/toe! ;)

Regards,
Gordon

You still have to know when and when not to downshift? They also keep track of what gear they are in. There are a lot of cues missing when you learn to drive an A/T.

Comparing NASCAR to F1 (in the States) is like comparing Windows NT to OS/2 or Betamax to VHS: a triumph of superior marketing over superior technology.

Originally posted by desmo996
You still have to know when and when not to downshift? They also keep track of what gear they are in. There are a lot of cues missing when you learn to drive an A/T.

True, but on the one hand anybody that plays Gran Turismo 3 on the PS2 knows how to do that. On the other hand, since about 2 years ago the shifting in F1 cars is fully automatic in that the upshifts and downshifts are programmed, and the drivers don't even need to use the shift paddles anymore. They're only there for backup in case there's a system failure. Throttle, brake, steering wheel - that's all they use in F1. In that respect, they're like overgrown go-karts! (Although shifter karts still have the driver operate the shift lever... ;) )

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by desmo996
...but I have to disagree with you reagarding your sport comparison. You can't expect a baseball player to perform in soccer. A race car driver is a race car driver. You are either good at it or your not. If you're not, you can not compete with with the big boys in the world arena. With racing becoming more and more specialized nowadays, and with the competition becoming so heavy, formula, sportscar, and stock car racing effectively are separate sports. Sure, there are those who could go from one to another, given enough seat time, just like there are a few athletes who can play both baseball and football on a professional basis. But in general, it is very very difficult to do so.

---jps

Generally, at least in the case of the FC3S and FD3S RX-7, and NA/NB Miata, manual versions of the car generally get a lot more at resale.

With the FD, an automatic will go for 2-3k less, sometimes more, depending on model/color.

FC, maybe 1k.. Miata, a few hundred to 1k, or they may go for the same ammount, if patient, but it'll take three times as long to sell.. but this is just in the Bay Area, other areas may be different.

Manual, manual, manual. Anything else is for wusses. More fun, more involvement with the car and more performance.

I was pretty happy to find an automatic '66 Mustang. While I had to rebuild the tranny, I knew the engine had been "protected." In other words the car had never bucked and/or jammed the engine. Feel free to educate me on whether that's a realistic worry or not.

Originally posted by desmo996


I agree with you about the money and TV the coverage, but I have to disagree with you reagarding your sport comparison. You can't expect a baseball player to perform in soccer. A race car driver is a race car driver. You are either good at it or your not. If you're not, you can not compete with with the big boys in the world arena.

There are enough different types of car racing with enough specialized drivers that not all drivers can be good and competitive at all of them, as Sputnik said. There's a big difference from running around in a little circle chasing your tail in NASCAR races to sliding around corners and actually having to follow directions to navigate a course in WRC races, and it's almost impossible for a driver to be good enough to compete in both types of racing. Different strategies and driving techniques are used, and so it almost is like comparing soccer to basketball. Both the sports involve running and getting balls in to nets, so they are similar at a very, very basic level, but beyond that they are two completely different sports, just as NASCAR and F1 and WRC are different competitions, widely removed from each other.

If you have to ask which is better, then you should definitely go Automatic.

It'll also be a hell of a lot funner on those long traffic jam commutes home, with your awesome sound system blaring and your rotary humming softly, not tiring your left foot with the clutch.

Originally posted by eccles
It's sad but true. The simple fact is that the vast majority of Murrikins drive slushboxes, so that's what they learn in. There's no such thing as an automatic-only licence (at least here in Texas; other states may differ).

It's another sad fact that most folks here never engage the handbrake. Perhaps that's why they refer to it as an "emergency brake." Hill starts are done with the left foot on the brake and the right on the gas, and parked vehicles are left rocking on the transmission in "Park".



It is also true that getting a license in alot of America is an absolute joke. I mean in England you have to spend hundreds on lessons and jump through a thousand hoops. In Pennsylvania, you take a written test that a chimp could literally pass since you just hit the switch on the screen for the right answer, then drive around a parking lot for ten minutes.

I know people in their fifties, men included, in this country who can't drive stick. I can't stand to think about it any more. I'm goin'

-H

Originally posted by Haze


I know people in their fifties, men included, in this country who can't drive stick. I can't stand to think about it any more. I'm goin'



Why are you so personally invested in what people do with their left feet in the privacy of their own cars?

Originally posted by 97gpGT


... There's a big difference from running around in a little circle chasing your tail in NASCAR races to sliding around corners and actually having to follow directions to navigate a course in WRC races,.....

:p I might have to use that quote one of these days:D


Gordon and Montoya switched cars. The result: Gordon was using the F1 as a lawn mover. Read the entire article:
Gordon Sucks (http://www.sportingnews.com/nascar/articles/20030611/477961.html) .

Originally posted by desmo996
The result: Gordon was using the F1 as a lawn mover.

and that's different from Montoya how?

Montoya went out first, went too fast and missed a turn (from that same article)

So Montoya missed a turn and ran wide, but when Gordon does the exact same thing later, he sucks? Where's that :rolleyes: smilie when you need it?

I don't think much of NASCAR, but fact is that Jeff Gordon is a world-class driver, and one of the very few in NASCAR that could successfully compete in road racing at a top level. Don't let your NASCAR bias blind you to a driver with real talent! Maybe you should read some of the other, more complete reports of that event - like where Frank Williams said that Gordon was truly impressive...

It depends what you have drove in the last 2 years and if you like that. The best is to try both. I have almost only drove MT before I went on a trip with a rental car (which was AT). Then I saw that I really dislike AT, so I'll stick to MT, more things to do, better control on the car. :)

Originally posted by Gord96BRG

Don't let your NASCAR bias blind you to a driver with real talent!

I'm not saying that he totally w/o talent, but as a racecar driver I think he would have much to learn in the International arena. He admits to this and settled for NASCAR. I am biased because NASCAR has taken over everything. Even my beloved Speed Vision was changed to Speed Channel to support the NASCAR Format. I guess 5 channels weren't enough. It turns my stomach when they, the news, announce Gordon as the "The Best Driver in the World" . IMHO the best drivers are WRC drivers. They deal with all types of surfaces and are very adaptive to any kind of driving.

Originally posted by Lex


Why are you so personally invested in what people do with their left feet in the privacy of their own cars?

It's not personal investment. I just lament the fact that manual transmissions are holding onto the US marketpalce with the skin of there synchromeshes, and I want to keep buying and driving them. I can't stand the feeling of lack of control that I get from an automatic as well as "tiptronic" type transes especially in the newer high multiple gear transes. None of the other trans options give a driver the control in truly foul weather that a manual trans does, and that's why I like them.

The reason that it is sad that a grown adult can't drive a stick shift is that it is considered a fundemental skill in Europe and apparently in other parts of the world, and it is yet another skill that Americans are too lazy to learn. I really don't know what Americans do when they travel to other countries because I have never been offered anything other than a manual trans car for rent in Europe. I guess that it's possible to get an automatic, but I've never seen one. Anyway, that's why.

-H

I just lament the fact that manual transmissions are holding onto the US marketpalce with the skin of there synchromeshes, and I want to keep buying and driving them.


I don't think you have to worry. Manual transmissions will always (provided CVT and other such modern transmission technologies don't fully take over in a number of years) be an option on the sportier of cars that drivers typically seek them on. As far as auto-domination in America...do you really want a manual Taurus? Or perhaps you like your trucks and SUVs, which make up a big chunk of American automobiles, in manual. I for one can see certain cars, and pretty much all trucks/SUVs where I wouldn't want a manual transmission.

I agree the percentages in some aimiable cases are skewed a bit. I wish there were more m/t legend coupes for the time I was looking at them. But at least the choice is typically there when I, and other enthusiasts so desire.

Originally posted by blizz81


As far as auto-domination in America...do you really want a manual Taurus? Or perhaps you like your trucks and SUVs, which make up a big chunk of American automobiles, in manual.
I agree the percentages in some aimiable cases are skewed a bit. I wish there were more m/t legend coupes for the time I was looking at them. But at least the choice is typically there when I, and other enthusiasts so desire.

Originally posted by Haze
The reason that it is sad that a grown adult can't drive a stick shift is that it is considered a fundemental skill in Europe and apparently in other parts of the world, and it is yet another skill that Americans are too lazy to learn. I really don't know what Americans do when they travel to other countries because I have never been offered anything other than a manual trans car for rent in Europe. I guess that it's possible to get an automatic, but I've never seen one.
-H
There you go again, and there you've done it.
Don't be fooled by American "laziness". Americans, and America is the world's leading country, make no mistake about that. America could dominate the world, if not at this point in time, then certainly in the not-too-distant future. Big statement? You bet. But, America has chosen not to go there alone. America has chosen to make the whole world a better place, where the whole world can live in peace, happiness and FREEDOM! It didn't have to go that way, but (thank GOD), that's the way it's going. When America sees a threat to that end, we take swift and appropriate action, gathering our allies and doing it as an alliance.

Did you see any "lazy" action in Iraq when we (the alliance) took the whole country by the balls? Yet, we're bad enough to give it right back to them 100% after a new government is established.

Maybe we enjoy our luxury a bit extravegently as much as we can, including driving our Vipers around with automatic transmissions, but that's a good example of freedom of choice. We do so because we choose to! (We can also afford to put-in the extra bucks for that option - RX-8 is a rare exception here.)

So cut the crap, Haze.

Where are you really from anyway? Just curious? Really don't care...

Born Dec. 31, '69? If I were to believe that, I would have told you that you were born in a most incredible year. First of several landings on the moon - by what country? In contrast to, also in that year, Woodstock. Oh yeah, the year I got my first driver's license! (In Allentown, Pennsylvania.) I know I'm forgetting right now a few other major events that took place in that year. That was one heck of a year!

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Just wanted to make one more statement... I would LOVE to see you take over one of those NASCARs in a real race, I mean with a camera pointing in your face. HAH!

We want the world to live in peace, so we start wars to accomplish that end.

We choose not to go it alone, so we withdraw from numerous international treaties. We choose not to go it alone, but when the United Nations refuses to agree we just say **** it and do it the **** anyway. Yeah right.

We want the whole world to live in freedom, so in our own country we give the government the ability to monitor our use of public libraries without our knowledge. We create new investigative powers for the government to tap our phones and perform surveillance without any suspicion of a crime having been committed. We allow our government to hold people for an indefinite time and prevent them from communicating to a lawyer or their family where they have gone.

But this isn't enough. Oh no! We also need to try to add new laws to fundamentally change the nature of citizenship from something one must relinquish by words or actions to something that can be revoked at will by our government. That doesn't sound like freedom to me. We value freedom so highly that even legal permanent residents of this country could be booted out without so much as a day in court or a statement of suspicion. We need to add laws to create a database of citizen's DNA, regardless of whether or not they have committed a crime. We value freedom so much that we want to give the government the ability to wiretap anyone's phone for 15 days and monitor their internet usage without a warrant.

There's a lot more there, but I think you get the idea.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an American citizen, and love this country. I have made the choice to work in an industry to protect the freedoms we enjoy and the defense of our country. There's better money elsewhere, but I strongly believe that the work that I do on a day to day basis strengthens our country. But to protect those freedoms we as citizens must be ever vigilent from the sorts of things that are occuring right now. Simple rhetoric about peace, happiness and freedom can't allow us to believe that we as citizens and our governement representatives are simply superior to the rest of the world. I think the word here is humility. There's a reason that the international reputation of the United States is at an all-time low. There's a reason that many of our longest standing allies no longer stand by our sides. There's a reason we're thought of around the world as belligerent, arrogant war mongers.

I don't know how we got here from automatic vs. manual transmissions, but I just couldn't let that post stand without some attempt at rebutal. Sorry mods, feel free to delete this. I just needed to get it off my chest.

Rich,

The world is a nasty place. Not all of what goes on is perfect. Never was, never will be.

For what you have written about your country, you can be assured that it is not just having your post deleted that you would be worried about in pre-war Iraq.

Of all the points you've brought up, if you were correct that there is actually something wrong in what you are referring to, (which you are wrong in every case, you're listening too hard to the wrong people) I have but two words for you - fix it. You're free to, and don't take that too lightly.

I'll let you have the last word on the issue, this is far enough off topic.

Edit - Ack, you changed your post after my post went through (my connection froze). I won't add anything more to the discussion, but I will say that the facts are quite simple to check on. Anyone interested in this discussion can easily verify if any of the facts I stated are correct or incorrect.

Manual, better mileage and more reliable. Not to mention, more FUN.

Originally posted by Rich
I'll let you have the last word on the issue, this is far enough off topic.

Edit - Ack, you changed your post after my post went through (my connection froze). I won't add anything more to the discussion, but I will say that the facts are quite simple to check on. Anyone interested in this discussion can easily verify if any of the facts I stated are correct or incorrect.

Where Rich, the National Enquirer? Star? Right next to the "I was abducted by an alien" story?

There. NOW I had the last word.

I was simply puttinng to rest the notion that Americans are lazy, that is till you came into it.:p

As for what transpired above, I apologize if my post had any part in the above ranting.

It's real simple. If you really want to go Zoom Zoom then get the manual. You will notice the lack of almost 40 horseys everytime you try to go Zoom with your Air on. I almost got an auto myself, but this group changed my mind pronto and I am thankful:)

Now should we move on to a new vanity license plate thread? I am stuck on a few plate names like GR8RX8 B12ZOOM or IBZOOMN.

Originally posted by Racer X-8
I was simply puttinng to rest the notion that Americans are lazy, that is till you came into it.:p Excuse me, who started it?!? You took an assertion that Americans are lazy - tenuous, I'll grant you - and used it as an excuse for a bunch of parochial flagwaving. Rich was merely responding to your "rah-rah" tirade.

July 4th is coming soon - save it for your buddies at the VFW.

Ouch, darn. Hit me just as I got off my soap box.
I'm not a vet, nor am I any more patriotic than the next. I got it off my chest and was through with it. Sorry to have offended.

Manual for 2004. If they fix the lost power & keep the paddle shifters for 2005, maybe then I would test drive an automatic (might be just like Juan Pablo Montoya in his F1 car).

Uhhh.... Is this what you would call thread creep? I'd say talk of American world domination, as intriguing as it might be, belongs in the Lounge. Have a great Yankee day!

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Uhhh.... Is this what you would call thread creep? I'd say talk of American world domination, as intriguing as it might be, belongs in the Lounge. Have a great Yankee day!

Another cheap shot. Sleep it off, then go & take a reading comprehension course.

This has now degenerated into petty personal bickering, closing...

---jps