I am new to this board, but not new to Mazdas. Excellent cars.

Has there been any discussion of the MSRP that Mazda is considering for the RX8?

If all goes according to reports, the RX-8 should be priced fully loaded at around 30k.

I just got the new Motor Trend and they say "boldly styled inside and out, with an estimated $30,000 price of entry." They go on to say allegedly a two door companion will be out for 2005. They don't give any release dates for the 8

An opening bid of $30k is too high. There is just too much competition for that kind of money. At that price level, you have numerous vehicles available, especially entry level luxury cars from Acura, Infiniti, lexus, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes. Just below that price point, you have the WRX and EVO VII or VIII.

At $30K base price, you will get a chunk of the rotary enthusiasts (although even some of those folks won't buy it because of price or the backseats) and the group of folks who want to be different from the others. The bottom line is that it won't gain the widespread acceptance Mazda wants and needs for this car to be successful, which could signal the end of new rotary cars here in North America.

Motor Trend has been wrong before. I wouldn't worry.

IMO, Mazda must pay close attention to the Miata’s pricing when deciding what to charge for the RX-8. The Miata for many years has been & will likely continue to be (though to a lesser extent) critical to Mazda’s success. Pricing the RX-8 to insure robust sales while ignoring the effect on the Miata would be a windfall for consumers but a disaster for Mazda. The Miata currently has an MSRP ranging from something like $23,500 to just over $27,000. The Miata is a niche car & its roadster status can’t be quantified so Mazda does have a little leeway in pricing. Ultimately though, the RX-8 has 100% more seats & 72% more power than the Miata; its price must reflect this.

I’ve been concerned about the RX-8 being painted into a corner for quite a while. A basement of $25,000 is formed by the Miata & a ceiling of $30,000 is formed by cars like the BMW 3 series; don’t think Mazda would dare ask consumers to pay a premium for the RX-8 over legends like the 3 series.

I think there is an amazingly small amount of room for Mazda to maneuver in this space.

Perhaps Mazda will resolve the narrow range by moving the Miata. How...Either by offering a lower priced, lower trimed Miata or by offering a higher priced, Z4 killing Miata.

As it stands, my prediction is as follows:

Base MSRP: $25,900
Typical MSRP: $28,500

Loaded MSRP: ??? Depends on how much junk is available. Doesn’t matter to me…"Always add plenty of lightness".

Shouldn't Madzda care less if the price overlaps? I mean then the customer has a choice between two cars from the same company. Whether or not they buy a Miata or RX-8, Mazda is getting the money, not their competitors. Kinda like the G35 coupe and the Z. They are extremely similar, and everyone is saying how stupid of a move it was for Nissan. It might not be the most cost effiecient method to run a business, but you will likely get more business, as the consumer has more choices to consider from one company--they need not look anywhere else for their needs. You know you want a sport coupe, so now all you need to do is look what you want more of. More luxury, get the G35c, more sport, get the Z. It really gets that market segment covered.

exactly for Nissan fuz.....but what would be the comparo / differentiating factor between the Miata and RX? Seating and power I guess huh?

Thanks for the info on possible pricing point(s) for the RX8. In any event it seems it ought to slide in under the Millenia S that stickers at $31-32K.

And it seems to me that Mazda must have something else up their sleeve to drop the Millenia and 626 in favor of the new "6". Any rumors out there about an upscale 4 door sedan that would be more 929 or Millenia in stature than the 6?

None that I have heard of in regards to a Millenia S replacement. I think they tried to bridge the gap with the new 6. Maybe they are trying to get out of the "Near luxury" segment considering how badly the Millenia did in comparison to it's competitors, but that was Mazda's fault for never entering the "HP Wars" with Nissan and the likes (Acura, etc.). Just my ¢.02

The Millenia was to be the entry level model for Amati, the Mazda luxury-brand. Tough times and an unfavorable exchange rate killed the program, but the car was already tooling up for production. It instead became the flagship in 1995 and coexisted with the 929 for only that year. The 929 rode over the sunset for 1996, as well as the MX-3 pocket rocket and MX-6 coupe. The Millenia S is one of those great cars no one knows about, however it is expensive to repair the revolutionary Miller-cycle engine and the advanced systems on the car. This is the last year of the Millenia and the 2.3L I-4 200hp Miller-Cycle engine. It will go quietly and unassumingly, but with respect.

Interestingly enough, if you remember back to the genesis of the Millenia, it was actually designed to be an "Amati", which was the name for the new Mazda division of luxury cars. The Amati was designed to be Lexus/Infiniti competitors for Mazda corporation.

However, before the second car was completed (a larger 4 door sedan than the Millenia) the Amati idea was killed and the Millenia was introduced as a Mazda. It is a fine car considering there hasn't been a lot of serious updating done over the years.

I own a 2000 Millenia S and believe it is every bit as good as the entry level Lexus and particularly the Infinity. To me the Millenia feels more solid, although it could use a few more horses.

Hey didn't I just say that? :D

Did you know the Amati flagship was to have a V-10 engine? :eek:

I think in the pricing department, many are missing the point.

First, the Miata and RX are two completely different cars, that even if they were the same price, they attract a completely different type of buyer. Miata: Small, convertible, two seat, piston roadster. RX-8: Larger, four seat, hardtop, rotary sports car/sedan. You're not gonna be getting a lot of cross shopping there I wouldn't think.

Next, why do cars like the Acura, Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc always get brought up? Besides the fact that they all BASE PRICE at about 30K, the RX-8 is completely different from every single one. Aren't there enough "3 series fighters" out there to make your head (or rotors ;) ) spin? Mazda has a car that is completely different and can avoid that stigma, yet based on price, it keeps getting compared. Remember a few things however:

Acura: Great deal, fully loaded about 32K, but it is NOT a sports sedan. FWD, Automatic transmission only.
Infiniti: This is one hell of a car, especially at this price. In my eye, this is Mazda's biggest competition if you compare based on price. Fully loaded about 34K, but has RWD, 260hp, and a manual coming really soon.
BMW: For 30K you can only get the 190hp 2.5L I6 motor. Add a few options and you are suddenly in the mid-upper 30's. Start off with the 225hp 3.0L motor and you are talking mid 30's without any options. I don't see the BMW as a threat. For the same money, you can get the BMW name, but you're giving up 60hp and a lot of options the Mazda will probably have standard. To get the more comparable (in power and equipment) car to the RX-8, you'd be talking at least 6-7K more than the Mazda.
Mercedes: Nice, but again pricey with options, and won't have near the amount of sport/power/price ratio of the RX-8.
Audi: See BMW and Mercedes.

Bottom line, for the money, I only really see the G35 as competition. But when you look at the type of car, they are so different they almost can't be compared. Mazda is going for that niche that hasn't been uncovered yet, that being a true, pure sports car with seating for four. All the others are luxury sport sedans.

Sorry, I can understand where you come from on price comparisons, but really nothing can compete on a performance/dollar ratio, or with the notion of a true "sports car", not an overly heavy luxury sport sedan.

Of course until we hear final pricing, this talk really doesn't mean anything ;)

The point I am trying to make is there are a lot of good cars available when approaching prices between 28-33K. And a lot of consumers would probably opt for a car they know at that price point, and bypass the RX-8. If Mazda offers a near loaded version that stays below $30k, then you begin swaying some of those folks.

Also - The Acura I had in mind when mentioning competition was the CL-type S which has 260 hp, 6 speed manual and a helical LSD. While heavy and FWD, it is a very competent car. I was skeptical, but the test drive I took several weeks ago was very inspiring.

I still plan to wait for the 8 to be released, and I hope it blows me away, with price and content, as well as power and handling. IMO, if Mazda can offer a nicely equipped model for @ $27-28k, they will sell as many as they could possibly build.

true, but they need to make money with it... most of you guys'll pay ABOUT $30 000 US, and i suppose with market surveys, and peering in on intrest groups like this they'd easily draw the conclusion that they would build the car for a profitable ABOUT $30 000 US price tag, at least in the US (which is the most profitable market anywhere).
who can say?? we've got about a $6k window (i think Jerome81 hit the nail on the head), and from a bottom-of-the-barrel outfitting, to top-of-the-line nearly luxo edition type of line, with 1 or 2 other options packages would easily span $6k... er, wait. sorry, i'm thinking Canadian... ;)

Just an FYI / correction post for the "MODERATOR" -

No Millenia ever built had an inline 4??

All Millenia's have one of 2 engines which have remained essentially unchanged over the last 7 years.
-a 2.3L Supercharged V-6
-or a 2.5L NA V-6.
The Miller Cycle (ie. 2.3L -S) has 210 HP and 210 Ft/Lbs
The NA V-6 has about 175HP and 175Ft/lbs.


Just an FYI

No, I didn't hear that the Amati flagship sedan would have had a V-10.

Make that a Miller Cycle V-10 (about 5+ litre) and you would have moved to the front of the class.

Mazda can do some serious engineering when called upon.

if the rx-8 hoovers around 30K, it will be competitive... i was this close to getting a 330ic, but that is in the high 30s... i dont see the price being problem for a lot of buyers.... the 8 will attract its own buyers, and those that want a regular luxary sedan will go toward the audi, bmw, infiniti, and lexus... people like myself and others will wait for the 8 and be willing to pay good money for it....

Originally posted by danielk015
if the rx-8 hoovers around 30K, it will be competitive... i was this close to getting a 330ic, but that is in the high 30s... i dont see the price being problem for a lot of buyers.... the 8 will attract its own buyers, and those that want a regular luxary sedan will go toward the audi, bmw, infiniti, and lexus... people like myself and others will wait for the 8 and be willing to pay good money for it....
I love the 8, but I will not pay over MSRP, and I don't expect it to run more than 30k.

If it does, I can take my business elsewhere.. there are lots of nice cars for that price, the RX-8 is just what I wanted over the rest. I can spend 33k and get myself into a 330i BMW, that has all the amenities and decent power as well. It's just not a rotary, but if you need a useable car that looks good... it's pretty much down to those two, at least for me.

Well, I'm thinking GBP not USD, but you guys are either gonna get it cheaper than us, or those prices are really good... 30K US os about GBP £20K and I'll be surprised to see the car less than £25K.

That said, I'm gonna have problems if I can't get the options I want for £26K... That's getting on for a LOT of money!

BlueAdept... UK prices on cars are outraegous anyways! ;)

hmm ur title says pics :confused: ...wel just incase u want some here's a link to th forum with the pics http://www.rx8forum.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=6

for a first gen 250hp car with suicide doors.... the base will be around 30,000. That's BASE


The Rav4 base is 18,000 and that comes with nothin and it options like AC etc and it gets close to 23,000

So expect the price to be around 35,000

Originally posted by block911
for a first gen 250hp car with suicide doors.... the base will be around 30,000. That's BASE


The Rav4 base is 18,000 and that comes with nothin and it options like AC etc and it gets close to 23,000

So expect the price to be around 35,000

35,000 what? You're profile doesn't say where you are... plus the previous two posts where discussing UK price.... I assume you mean canadian?

Regarding Amati:

Here's the scoop. Mazda was extremely close to introducing the Amati luxury division in the early 1990s. So close, in fact, that an Amati banner was hung from Mazda's US headquarters in Irvine, CA.

However, by 1993, the US economy had tanked, Japan's bubble economy had burst, and Mazda had introduced way too many two-door coupes into a quickly shrinking coupe market (RX-7, MX-3, MX-6, and it could be argued that many potential buyers of these cars wound up in Miatas instead). Mazda was in serious financial difficulty, and the strength of the yen against the dollar was only making matters worse. From 1993 to 1995, the price of the RX-7 increased nearly $7,000, almost all due to currency problems.

Mazda was not the only company suffering from this. Toyota's Lexus, whose LS400 started at about $36,500 in 1990 was nearing $50,000 by 1995. Lexus maintained its success because of the headway it made when their cars were still relatively cheap and built a high-end image. Amati had already lost four years to Lexus and Infiniti and would lose another before it would be ready to go in late 1994.

Therefore, Mazda pulled the plug on Amati in 1993. But not before some major work had been done on future products.

Mazda's strategy for Amati was to have three cars ready at launch. One was the entry level "near-luxury" sedan. The second car was to be a left-hand drive version of the Eunos Cosmo luxury coupe, which was to be sold in the US in both two and three rotor versions, just like in Japan. Finally, there was to be a flagship RWD sedan with what would have been Japan's first production V12 engine. It was based on the KL-series 60 degree Mazda V6. The initial prototype was a 3.6L unit, essentially a 12-cylinder version of the MX-3's 130 hp V6, said to produce about 280 hp. For more useable torque a 4.0L version was being considered, and the engine could have been punched out easily enough to 5.0L, a double 2.5L from the MX-6.

When Amati was scrapped, the entry-level car was completely finished and sales volume as the Eunos 800 in Japan and the Xedos 9 in Europe was not deemed sufficient to pay for the development of the car, so it was sent to the US as the Mazda Millenia, which promptly cannabalized sales of the 929 and led to its US market demise.

The Eunos Cosmo never made it to the US despite its being tested and universally loved by the American press, in fact it was never officially sold anywhere but in Japan, though it has since been grey market imported to Europe, Australia, and New Zealand.

The V12 sedan was completely junked, I have seen no prototypes, let alone styling sketches of the car, the only evidence of its existence I have found are contemporary magazine news snippets and the fact that the only surviving V12 prototype (to my knowledge) was on display in the lobby of Mazda headquarters in Hiroshima.

The story of the V12 doesn't quite end there, though. There was some talk around 1995 of Jaguar using the Amati V12 in some of its cars. This plan was quickly dropped and Jaguar instead went ahead with its joint development with Lincoln of a V8 engine.

Good post. Here is a pic of the Eunos Cosmo, a very handsome 2 door luxury sport:

http://www.der-wankelmotor.de/Fahrzeuge/MAZDA/Eunos_Cosmo/Cosmoneu.jpg

Another:
http://www.der-wankelmotor.de/Fahrzeuge/MAZDA/Eunos_Cosmo/Cosmo_JC_op.jpg

After going through some of my old information, I can confirm that the V12 sedan was to be called the Amati Pegasus.

Bottom line for me:

If they can't start with a base price of $25k, or top out nearly loaded at around $33, I won't buy. The RX-8 must be able to compete with the Z on price range.

I remember the Amati division. I believe if it has survived, it would have been awesome. I didn't know quite the info. that you gave though (very insightful post) :D Just think of the beautiful styling that could have come out of that division. Well I can always dream.;) Maybe Mazda may entertain the idea in the future.

Originally posted by fuz
Bottom line for me:

If they can't start with a base price of $25k, or top out nearly loaded at around $33, I won't buy. The RX-8 must be able to compete with the Z on price range.
*nod*
I want my 6 speed loaded at around 30k, I don't intend to pay much more than that.

There are too many cars in that price range and I hope Mazda undercuts them and as a result I benefit.

I'm just hoping on good lease deals, because I don't like to keep cars more than 3 years... so I just lease the next car too :P Maybe the RX-7? :)