My dealer told me yesterday that some of the dealers in the East coast have already posted a $5K markup on the RX-8, while some in the West have posted a $2K markup. He said this mainly because the first boat has left Japan already and the cars should be here soon.

My dealer told me today that they would charge over MSRP. When the Evo first got here a dealer near me was selling them for 7k over MSRP now they are going for MSRP. It will happen in some dealers not all

well here in ak almost all dealers markup all cars 1500 to 2000,the evo here was 5000 markup and sti was 2000.the rx-8 here will be marked up 2000 if you buy off the showroom,i got mine for msrp and made sure i had it in writing.

Mine said he was charging 2K after the first pre-order period.

it is actually common practice to mark up among some dealers. i have heard stories about dealers puting all available accessories on the evo + marking it up for a total of over $45,000 our dealer never marks up cars, so i am told. i dont think we have yet. but a lot of them do especially popular cars lke the rx-8. it all depends on the dealer. (also it wont do any good to call mazda and complain, remember msrp stand for manufaturer SUGGESTED retail price, the dealer can chage as much as they want as long as peolpe pay it, which they always do)

heh the markup for evos round here was 20k when it first came out.

Originally posted by akrx8
well here in ak almost all dealers markup all cars 1500 to 2000,the evo here was 5000 markup and sti was 2000.the rx-8 here will be marked up 2000 if you buy off the showroom,i got mine for msrp and made sure i had it in writing.

Where in Alaska? My friend in fairbanks told me that the 350z was around 40 grand when they got it. The only cool part is that there is no sales tax, but its funny cause people still pay more for new cars.

my dealer here in CA tried to pull that 5K markup on me; I pretty much told him that w/ the markup, I might as well get a 330Ci w/ options that I actually want on this BMW. I think this scared my dealer and he dropped the 5K immediately.

alex

As long as there are peple willing to pay the markup, dealers will mark things up.:mad:

Dealer mark ups mean our RX8s will appreciate as soon as we drive off the lot. This happened with my first allocation Beetle turbo and WRX.

My dealer is adding an "addendum" to the price of the car - it's like 2K - AFTER the pre-order program is over. It's suppose to include Scotch Guard or some BS like that. It's most likely just oil & vinegar. They told me that on top of that, they will most likely increase the retail price of the RX-8 to meet supply & demand. Glad I pre-ordered.

Dealers are so funny. Went and looked at a 350Z the other day and got this crap about how high in demand they are etc. So I asked the sales rep why I could count at least 10 Z's sitting in the front lot alone.

When the FD first came out I believe the same sort of thing happened as well. I just waited several months then bought my R1 for about 4.5k less than M.S.R.P.

I'll never pay over m.s.r.p. for a vehicle. Most likely in a few months you'll be able to walk into a dealership and buy a Rx-8 for under m.s.r.p.

RotaryStalker

I just talked with a dealer in the Los angeles area and he said that his 8's will be marked up 10K !!!!!!!!

WOW!!!!

Mathteacher

I don't think dealers in the UK will be marking the prices up.

Although there will probably be a premium paid for any private sale when the pre-orders arrive, so that impatient people can avoid the wait.

Chris

wow...one born every minute.

Originally posted by brownchiro
Dealer mark ups mean our RX8s will appreciate as soon as we drive off the lot. This happened with my first allocation Beetle turbo and WRX.

Appreciate? For how long? A week? A month? Three months?

My MINI dealer told me about a guy who came in who wanted to trade in his S2000. Trade value: $24,000. The guy went ballistic- he paid $5,000 over sticker, $37,000, eighteen months ago. He wanted $32,000 for his car. Time for a reality check- that was eighteen months ago. Today brand-new S2000s are in-stock and selling for sticker everywhere around here= around $32,000.

Unless you are buying something like a 360 Modena Spyder where you can't even order a new one because the waiting lists are longer than the car is scheduled to be in production, it is silly to pay over MSRP for ANY car. (Used Modena Spyders sell for more than new ones- Ferrari keeps a type reign on MSRP for new cars. Many make the customer sign a right of first refusal agreement so they can get the car back if the customer is going to sell it.)

Everyone who paid over sticker for an M1 Miata, a 1990 Acura NSX, an S2000, or a 350Z has taken a huge financial bath, courtesy of their friendly dealer who sacrifices a long-term relationship for a quick profit, with the customer paying the price twice- once when the car is purchased, and again when it is sold and traded.

Just say no. And shop elsewhere when you need a Protege of a Mazda 6.

it will be interestying to seee who here will be willing to pay markup when they test drive the car and see it especially after waiting so long. the demand is so high if you say no markup or no deal. they may say ok and just sale to the next guy and your stuck without....

That's why I got my price in writing :D I just hope that is actually worth something...

Originally posted by ibfubar2000
... the demand is so high if you say no markup or no deal. they may say ok and just sale to the next guy and your stuck without....
That's what happened last fall when I went to buy a 350Z. I decided to wait...then I got the e-mail about the RX8. Went back to the dealer who now had 10 Z's still with 3K markup on the sticker. I gave him one chance to tell me the lowest price and he said it starts at MSRP plus 3K... the rest will soon be history. :cool:

There's a reason for that -- to drive people to put down deposits. Put down a $500 deposit and if you hate the car when it gets here you're out $500, but if you love it and buy it, you get it at MSRP instead of $2000 over. That does a pretty good job of getting the cars presold.

I said in a thread here a few days ago that I would *never* pay over MSRP for *any* vehicle. Well, I guess I'm making myself a liar. I got my price in writing for my RX-8, and it's $995 over MSRP. But it isn't because it's a hot, in-demand car. This dealer marks up *all* new cars the same amount ($995), from the Protege up to the 6. I didn't believe the salesman when he told me that, but I walked around the lot and sure enough, they all have $995 on the sticker as "Adjusted Market Value".

Oh well, I guess I'm a sucker too.
:(

“A dealer in Los Angeles told me that he’s going to charge $10,000 over MSRP”

At that price, every sale will require a fool (oppps, sorry) a customer to walk past the BMW dealer who offers a bullet proof, high performance, prestigious vehicle that essentially performs the same roll for $154 per ft/Lb of torque to buy the RX-8 for $235 per ft/Lb of torque. That’s a 52% premium over the best-in-class competitor…Not…Going…To…Happen!!!

I’m a thirty eight year old professional with sixteen years of experience (all wonderful) with RX-7’s who’s in the market for a new car yet I’m not even close to being sold on the RX-8. If it were three thousands dollars cheaper or if it had fifty more ft/Lbs of torque I’d buy one without a second thought but that isn’t the case. If you remove the passion, ignore the “Gee-that’s-neat” facet of the engine & just pit the numbers against the competition’s, the car comes up short at MSRP, adding a premium on top of that is just wishful drinking, like twelve pack grade wishful drinking <barp!!!>

Go figure.. we have dealers here selling the EVO at 40K.

The EVO! $40,000......

Come on now! That's one of the f'd up part of living on an island.. nowhere else to go. Unless you're 1) Going to be tough and wait it out, or 2) Try to go to the mainland and ship it down.

But in the 8's case, if you go with #2, you will have still have to wait since mainland dealers arealso done with pre-orders..

ive got mine for msrp in writing, hopefully, theyll even have the car though...


BTW, that $500 deposit is 100% refundable, if they try to tell you it aint, tell them youll call Consumer Affairs to check it out, the place would be shut down in 2 months.
________
Curvy Cam (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/curvy/)

sandberglar,im out of anchorage about 40 miles.i just looked at a 350z a week ago,it was loaded and 42,000[ouch]it drops alot if you get the cheap one but what fun is that.i guess im lucky i got in on my 8 for msrp but the market here for cars like these are a lot less.dealer only had 2 preorders and i got the first allocated one,still 7 left.the MOST popular car here has got to be wrx,there everywhere.sti's are here now also.:)

Originally posted by P00Man
ive got mine for msrp in writing, hopefully, theyll even have the car though...


BTW, that $500 deposit is 100% refundable, if they try to tell you it aint, tell them youll call Consumer Affairs to check it out, the place would be shut down in 2 months.

it all depends on what they signed when they made the deposit. if they signed something saying non-refundable then it is non-refundable. most dealers do this all the time. they know ho the system works. just like mark-up, the dealer can mark up as much as they want, it is all legal. there is nothing saying they have to charge MSRP!

Yeah akrx8 I know what you mean about the wrx's being everywhere in ak. I saw more wrx's in ak then down here in phoenix which has so much more people.

Originally posted by ibfubar2000


it all depends on what they signed when they made the deposit. if they signed something saying non-refundable then it is non-refundable. most dealers do this all the time. they know ho the system works. just like mark-up, the dealer can mark up as much as they want, it is all legal. there is nothing saying they have to charge MSRP!

This also depends on the state. In Pennsylvania, it is illegal for dealers to make deposits non-refundable. If they don't deliver a car to you, they can't keep your money. Two F&I managers told me this.

OK Gang

You don't have to pay over sticker for a car! There are too many reputable dealers out there that won't sacrifice long term goals for short term gain. We won't do it. If it were me I'd find a dealer and get an airline ticket. $300 or $400 is better than 2 or 3K.

Once again I'm glad i live in UK (aka Rip off Britain).

No main dealer marks up new cars. At all ever. Well most are pre-marked up to leave some bargaining room for the dealers (and their profit margin) but what isnt?

2nd hand cars do sometimes go for more than new depending on the market, but rarely does that continue past the first few months.

Wonder how much the new BMW M3 CSI will go for £59,000 new, all Uk's 500 already well sold. Thats $100k for a 3 series BMW lol...

Oh and the new SLK, 2 year wait AT least. And no one has even seen it yet.

Several dealers in my area still have RX-8's not taken from the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd allocations. Why would anyone pay more than MSRP. The preorders did not sell out.

They'll pay over sticker because that's what the market will bear. Demand for RX-8s is going to skyrocket when they hit showrooms, simple fact. There'll be a whole lot more buyers when they arrive than there are now, and demand is going to far outweigh supply. It won't matter if the preorders didn't sell out, a lot of people are waiting for the car to arrive before making a decision (effectively costing them money if they decide to buy at that time), and when all those people want the car at the same time and dealers only have one or two in, they'll pay market value, just like people did for every other new "hot" car that has come out recently.

Yup.. sadly, regardless if you think paying over MSRP is stupid or not, it's supply and demand at it's most basic level.

It also depends on the individual. I've never paid msrp for a vehicle. After purchasing a loaded 96' 4-Runner (new model, out one week) for 1k over invoice my buddy liked it so much he went to the same dealership, same saleswoman, bought a 4-Runner not nearly as loaded as mine for several thousand more. I actually walked out of the dealership when they didn't like my offer and before I reached my car they were rushing out the door telling me to come back.

My Mom seems to take pride in paying through the nose for a vehicle. She seems to walk in to a dealership with the idea that she doesn't want to portray to these people that she cares about price. Yes, I know it's dumb. Dealerships love her so much.

So, two people walking in to buy a Rx-8 around December could easily pay substantially different prices. If you have the desire, do the research, don't mind a couple of hour drive to get the car, take one on the lot, etc., IMO you'll be able to find a Rx-8 for msrp, you just have to do your homework.

RotaryStalker

I am already on my second dealer due to this crap....
I ordered from my local dealer, (Jarman Mazda, Edmonton, let's name names!) in March'02 - I figured a thousand dollar deposit and a years wait might get me a fair deal, I even asked the guy "I realise that nobody knows the price yet, but am I locked into MSRP?" I was not looking for a discount, just full list. (Just!...did I really say that? Yes.) He confirmed that the only extras would be delivery and PDI for a max of $800.
But Noooooo, I get a phone call two days after the price is released, telling me that if I come down to the dealership I can sign up for my pre-order at only 2400 dollars over list!
They can bite my shiny metal ass!
I had to go an hour further, but got a signed deal locked in at list.
My new dealer did whine about the lack of profit in it for him, that "they could have priced it five thousand higher, it would still sell, and make me a decent profit" etc.
While we are naming names, the "good-guy" in this is Autoworld, in Leduc, Alberta.
S

RotaryStalker, you might be able to find one in December for MSRP, but you're right -- it's going to have to be an in stock unit. Unless you are looking for an automatic (which I have a feeling dealers will have a few extra of) I think you'll have a tough time finding many in stock units come December. All the masses of people who are waiting to make up their minds are going to get assed out when they start hitting showrooms, and they're going to pony up and deposit on the ones coming in later. After that the chances of getting exactly what you want, if you can find anything at all, are slim and none (and slim just left town). You might save a few dollars but for the next five years you're going to have a car that isn't what you wanted. And as much as dealers might not want to lose a sale, when you walk out over not getting a discount there'll be someone walking in behind you to take your place. Dealers are in the business of doing two things: making money, and cultivating relationships. You might be pissed over no discount, but the guy behind you will be thrilled just to have the car, markup or not, and as far as dealers are concerned those are the customers the dealer would rather have anyway. That guy is a lot more likely to love that dealership for getting him the car of his dreams, and thus buy from them again and again, then the guy who nickel and dimes his way through the sale. If the dealership has to choose which of those two customers they want to form a long term relationship with, who do you think it will be?

While I said I've never paid msrp for a car before, I would pay msrp for a Rx-8 depending on the time I bought one.

When the FD first came out dealerships were doing the same thing. I simply waited until the end of the year (Dec) and paid 4.5k less then msrp. It was exactly the car I wanted as well.

Look at the 350Z now. I saw at least 10 at my local dealership. Some dealerships still charge over msrp for them but I'm quite certain I could walk in and get one for msrp from Nissan here. The Z is a recently released hot car. Why are there so many to choose from now at my local Nissan?

IMO the Rx-8 will hit the market in the same sort of manner as the 350Z in which case they'll be 10 to choose from 6 months from now.

I'm not gambling on this happening. We're getting a Volvo XC-90 before the SUV loophole is closed. It's a brand new hot vehicle but we're only paying msrp for one ordered exactly how we want.

RotaryStalker

When the 8's start showing up and advertising kicks in, there's going to be a period of short-squeeze. If the demand is there dealers are going to mark-up and not bother with the guys trying to cut the best deal, because there's going to be a guy right behind him willing to pay more. How long this 'short-squeeze' period will last is anybody's guess. But yes if you wait long enough (insert your time period here) you will be able to get invoice or a little above on any car.

In general, anybody that pre-ordered more or less got MSRP and will have their cars in a matter of 3-9 weeks. Anybody now wanting to buy, depending on the circumstances, may have the realization that buying at MSRP will not be possible in the foreseeable future..

My local dealership has stated they won't sell the Rx-8 above msrp. It will be interesting to see if they do.

Actually just called them again and was told no matter how early in production they will be sold for "straight sticker, no markup". Now that's the 4th sales rep I've spoken to in 3 months about the Rx-8 and been told the same thing about markup every time. I will be happy to let the forum know how fast they move and how hard it is to buy one there.

Their first shipment is in July. Out of 24 coming in three months 7 have deposits on them. I was also told that they (the dealership) expects supply to almost keep up with demand.

btw. For comparison a dealership in the next town only has one coming in July and it's not a pre-order.

I expect the small window of hype and will last only 5-6 months. After that dies down the dealership that wants to move cars will sell them for msrp.

RotaryStalker

I'm paying MSRP for mine and I don't really care. But my dealer said they could not charge over MSRP! Why, I don't know. I suppose it's just a local thing.:)

i think it all has to do with supply and demand.up here they mark up all cars except for 1 ford dealer.they use this money in most cases to help someone get out of there trade in so they can play with the numbers.if you are buying and do not have a trade you can get at or below msrp unless its a high demand item.evo or sti you will never get at msrp atleast for severel months entill the "high" has worn off.up here these awd cars our high demand.on the 8 that is rwd is not nearly as popular because all the dumbass new people up here dont no how to drive in the winter.whats funny is that in the winter the most kind of cars that are in the ditch or wadded up are suv's,blazers,suburbans,larger trucks,etc.guarenteed you will be able to buy an 8 here for msrp and buy november if there are still any left you can proabably save 3000 over that.

My dealer said that the owner does not believe in marking up cars over MSRP, which would reduce their potential customer base and loyalty. Therefore I'm getting my car at MSRP. Plus I think it helps that I'm not in a big city, so there isn't much demand. Plus it's a college town, so half of the adult population (students) can't afford a new car on their incomes.

It'd be interesting if my dealer offered Mitsubushis or Subarus to see if the Evo and STi would go for MSRP. Unfortunately, they only offer GM, Hyundai, Mazda, and Chrysler. I might swing by the Subaru and Mitsubushi dealers to see if any markups exist on these cars.

I would hope that most dealers are not going to try to pull this crap with those of us who have pre-ordered. My dealership said that they would not be marking up the first 3 allocations (mostly, if not all pre-orders) and after that they would be putting a hefty markup on them.

I see this happening in most big cities. They want to get a few out on the road to"advertise" to the public. Then when they get people coming into the dealership interested in buying one....they slam them with the marked up price. There will be some fools out there that want one bad enough and have the money to burn, that they might pay way above MSRP.

My dealer (in the Los Angeles area) is pulling this crap of adding $2000 to the MSRP - five months after I placed the "pre-order" and put down a $500 deposit. I'm not even sure if they are required in California to refund my deposit if I cancel. They told me when I placed the order that the deposit was refundable, but I didn't get it in writting - and I'm having a hard time getting the dealership to return my calls...

DOOHHH!

Check my earlier post on this same thread. Man that is just wrong!!!!

I know most people did not sign a contract stating that the price would not change, but when you submitted your $500, there was something at least written down as to the price of the car, like MSRP, yes?

Either way, looking at it logically, you should be able to get your down payment back. If not then the dealer could raise the price of the car to anything he wanted and steal your deposit, see what I mean.

I would argue, state that the deposit was for the stated price of MSRP, that he has been holding your money "as good faith" for past 5 months, has cut you out from looking at other dealers in that time, and basically he is wasting your time!!! Get in there and be stern, that "he will sell you YOUR car". God that sounds so screwed, hope my dealer doesn't pull this sh*t.

I verbally and over the phone told my dealer "up-teen times" that he was not going to waste my time by changing the price after we discussed MSRP. He said that he would not, and I believed him, we shall see when the car comes in. I hope he doesn't change his tune or I will seriously need to 'verbally' rip him a new one. :)

You see that's why my dealer keeps dodging the price question whenever I ask.. they keep saying, we cant give you a price because we dont know it yet...

CROCK of course.. the price is all over the Net.. Everyone knows the price of this car!

But see, this keeps their options open to the very end so they can GUAGE how much they can really GOUGE for this car.

Sly, but smart.

I was worried about this same thing. The paperwork that I got from the dealer when I ordered had the price listed at $31,100, which was the MSRP price, but it was not signed by them. It did not say anything about sticking to MSRP at delivery. I was told verbally over and over by the dealership that they were not selling them over MSRP for the pre-orders, but I had nothing in writing to confirm this. This worried me, so I demanded that they put something in writing, or I was going to visit the other dealer in town who WAS doing this for their pre-order customers.

I had something from them the next day....which was a little shady...but it was something. It looked like a post-it note that they attached to my original order form that said something like "Customer will pay MSRP at delivery + Accessories + documentation fee". It was signed by the sales manager. They photocopied this and gave it to me. I feel a little bit better about it now, even though the paperwork is still about half-assed. They could have pulled the post-it note off of the form and threw it away as soon as they photocopied it for all I know. At least I have something signed by the sales manager now....whether that means anything or not.??

I can assure you that if they even try to pull any crap like jacking the price with me when I go to take delivery I am walking out (after a good fight with all of them). I don't want to deal with somebody I cannot have at least an ounce of trust with. I'd rather wait another 6 months if I had to, then to be taken advantage of. I don't NEED the car that bad.

I really don't think that is going to happen though. They don't even have all of the pre-orders filled, so I doubt that they are going to be able to move the cars if they try to sell over MSRP. I really don't think the demand for the cars are as high as Mazda anticiptaed them to be at this point. I'll bet that will change once they get out on the road though and people start seeing them more.

I did not pre-order because I do not want to pay MRSP, unless I am forced to. To pre-order an RX-8 I was told by several dealers I would have to pay MSRP(at least) to place the order.

There are approximately 75 RX-8's coming to the St. Louis dealers in July (reportedly) without pre-order or reserved status- I've done my homework. I will be on the lots the first day to negotiate price. If all local dealers sell at MSRP(and will not negotiate), then I will pay MSRP.

Not everyone interested in the RX-8 will show up the first few days. (I hope) There should be plenty of vehicles intially available to negotiate price. Of course I could be completely wrong, and get stuck with paying MSRP or higher. Stay tuned!

so is everybody going to let us know how much they paid for thier rx8 afer thet buy it or if they dont buy it because of the price. i think it would be interesting to know.

Originally posted by ibfubar2000
so is everybody going to let us know how much they paid for thier rx8 afer thet buy it or if they dont buy it because of the price. i think it would be interesting to know.

Well when I buy mine, I'm going to try for a little better, but as it stands now I'm getting mine for MSRP - $200.

Note: the $200 off is because I b**ched about the $200 doc fee, and a previous experiance with a past purchase.

Originally posted by ibfubar2000
so is everybody going to let us know how much they paid for thier rx8 afer thet buy it or if they dont buy it because of the price. i think it would be interesting to know.

I put down $2000 as a deposit. I'm definately going to buy it. I'll pay MSRP, as agreed upon in my purchase agreement, plus tags and taxes. My dealer has been fair with me, in return I'll be fair with him. I don't mind paying MSRP. I feel the car is definately worth it.

I put my $1000 down way back in May of 2002......
In the following year, there wasn't a DAY went by that I didn't think that was the STOOPIDEST thing I have ever done....
I told the guy I was really interested, gave him a grand and waited for him to phone and tell me how much he was going to charge me.....DOHH!

"Why would you agree to buy a car (any car) when you don't know the price, and he has your deposit?"

They do those surveys that find out why people hate car dealers and hate the whole car buying experience; and I am surprised when Joe Dealer phones me to tell me the size of the HOSING I am going to get! Over $2k above Mazda Canada's list.

I realize now why I have reached the tender age of 50, and have never bought a new car - in fact I haven't even bought from a dealer in the last 30 years, even used - I can't stand the bullcrap!

IF there is EVER a 'next time' I will be getting a signed, witnessed guarantee of MSRP, nothing more or less.

What am I saying, who am I kidding, Jarman Mazda has soured me on ever setting foot in a new car salesroom again.

Thanks for letting me vent, guys. I feel for the people out there who have yet to find out their prices. (especially that guy in Hawaii - he is SO screwed!)
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doc

Originally posted by Doctorr
I put my $1000 down way back in May of 2002......
In the following year, there wasn't a DAY went by that I didn't think that was the STOOPIDEST thing I have ever done....
I told the guy I was really interested, gave him a grand and waited for him to phone and tell me how much he was going to charge me.....DOHH!

"Why would you agree to buy a car (any car) when you don't know the price, and he has your deposit?"

They do those surveys that find out why people hate car dealers and hate the whole car buying experience; and I am surprised when Joe Dealer phones me to tell me the size of the HOSING I am going to get! Over $2k above Mazda Canada's list.

I realize now why I have reached the tender age of 50, and have never bought a new car - in fact I haven't even bought from a dealer in the last 30 years, even used - I can't stand the bullcrap!

IF there is EVER a 'next time' I will be getting a signed, witnessed guarantee of MSRP, nothing more or less.

What am I saying, who am I kidding, Jarman Mazda has soured me on ever setting foot in a new car salesroom again.

Thanks for letting me vent, guys. I feel for the people out there who have yet to find out their prices. (especially that guy in Hawaii - he is SO screwed!)
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doc

Sorry to hear your story Doc. Wasn't your deposit refundable?

well i just talked to the sales manager here at Browning mazda in cerritos, ca. they never mark up their cars. they may add accessories and charge extra for the accessory, (ie if they add a spoiler you would pay extra for the spoiler, or chrome wheels, not just because the dealer felt like cheating the customer) but they will not mark up "premiere mark-up" or anything they will not sale above msrp. so if anyone wants to guarantee to purchase for msrp call Bob Watts @ (800) 565-5640. he can set you up. since i work at a dealer i wont go into details about what im paying. but if i were not at a dealer i too would not pay a "premiere mark-up" i would shop around to get the best deal. we also sell mitsubishi here (which we also do not mark up) but he told me another local dealer sales evos for $20,000 over msrp. thats $50,000 for an evo!! and that is without any accessories just a basic evo!! so shop around if you can!!

well im glad that i got my paper in writing that customer will pay msrp.i to have had a fair, knowledgable dealer[i have only dealt with the sales manager]and i will treat them fair also.only ordered my car 2 weeks ago and im now a preorder [dont no why but im not bitichin] have a gift book coming and as of today got my vin e mail #JM15E173640105469.:D