Just noticed that mazda downrated performance by 3hp (210 -> 207 and 250 -> 247). Check the MazdaUSA site.

the 247hp # has been floating around for awhile. even during the car and driver segment Csaba was saying 250 but they had 247 on the bottom of the screen. that is the first i have heard of a drop in the low power though.

guess they didnt want another law suit

Originally posted by tribal azn2
guess they didnt want another law suit
Could you elaborate?:confused:

mazda got sued awhile back because they overrated the power on the miata

Originally posted by cueball1029

Could you elaborate?:confused:

mazda had wrong info on the miata. aaid the horsepower was wrong. they ended up giving the customer 2 options. mazda would buy back the car or mazda would give the owner $500.00 plus free maintance for 3 years. it worked out great for the customers. some returned the car some kept the car with free maintanence! i dont think mazda will let it happen again. huge expence for mazda!!

So what was that weight to horsepower formula again? Maybe a couple of may need to get on that subway sandwich diet to recover those lost horses... :D

I don't think anything has changed. I think its always been 250 PS which translates to 247 hp. PS is the German measurement of horsepower (PS stands for pferdstarker, which is literally the German for horsepower). This is measured slightly differently to US horsepower, hence the slightly different figures.

Originally posted by brothervoodoo
So what was that weight to horsepower formula again? Maybe a couple of may need to get on that subway sandwich diet to recover those lost horses... :D 6 lbs = 1 horsepower

You'll have to lose a lot of weight :)

ALL of the current RX-8 literature, including the new brochure I just received from the dealer states 250hp for the 6mt and 210hp for the at. I don't think they would have produced all of this if it wasn't correct. Even the Sales employees newsletter, Mazda Fuel for May/June (Vol. 2, Issue 3) says "Buyers have a choice of 250 horsepower...or 210 horsepower..." on page 12. Some of the older pre-production reports had estimated hp data. And none of the current info uses German data either.:o

there is always that legalspeak on those brochures etc. that says "everything was true at the time of printing but things could change"

Originally posted by zoom44
there is always that legalspeak on those brochures etc. that says "everything was true at the time of printing but things could change"

I don't think that the Current sales info would state something "equivocal". There is no caveat in this literature.

The 250PS comes from the Intern'l Engine Award:
"The award ceremony will be held on June 4 in Stuttgart, Germany.

Outline of RENESIS engine (for Mazda RX-8 Type S/Japanese specifications) -Type:
-Total Displacement:
-Maximum Output (JIS net):
-Maximum Torque (JIS net):
Rotary engine, two-rotor, water-cooled
0.654L x 2
184kW (250PS)/8,500rpm
216N·m (22.0kg-m)/5,500rpm "

Note the data for "Mazda RX-8 Type S/
Japanese specifications

i'll check my brochure when i get home i thought i saw the caveat on there somewhere.

Originally posted by zoom44
i'll check my brochure when i get home i thought i saw the caveat on there somewhere.

You may find it in one of the customer brochures, but what I referred to is Mazda Fuel , the publication for the sales staff.:)

ok:cool:

This was discussed at length at SevenStock. At that time the "targeted" HP was 250 (and if you lookclosely at some of the literature it says that), but they were struggling to get the EPA /emmissions/power/performance equation solved. Even back then, they were talking 247 HP and the fact that they were "working diligently" on it to squeeze out the extra 3 HP. I wouldn't fret over 3 HP, there will be a couple of easy things you can do to gain back all of that ..and more. The first that comes to mind is a K&N air filter, exhaust mods next, etc. BTW, I know the guys at Corksport (www.corksport.com) and the owner has a car on order. The first thing they are doing is developing an exhaust system!

Originally posted by tribal azn2
mazda got sued awhile back because they overrated the power on the miata

Nope - there was no law suits at any time over the 2001 Miata HP issue. Lots of publicity, quite a few unhappy owners, and a suitable resolution voluntarily provided by Mazda - owners could either return their Miatas for a prorated refund, or get $500 in accessories or free maintenance. The HP difference in that case was 12 HP, not 3, and resulted from a mix-up over test estimates and a decision after the engine tested at 155 to have all US Miata meet California emissions regs. It was the recalibrated engine that only made 142 crank HP.

Regards,
Gordon

142 is 91% of 155...definite cause for concern.

247 is 99% of 250. You can loose that due to humidity! Not to mention the 1000 other variables at 8500 rpm. They all can work the other way as well. Unless you dyno-test your car, you don't really know what it's developing at any given time. And of course, don't forget the biggest factor - rpm...:)

Originally posted by Hercules
6 lbs = 1 horsepower

You'll have to lose a lot of weight :)

3000lb / 247 Horsepower = 12.1 lb / horsepower.

So increase the engine by 1 horsepower would be the same as decreasing the weight by about 12 lbs.

By the way, German horses are weaker than American horses so:

250 PS = 247 HP.

-Mr. Wigggles

isnt the general "rule" 1hp for 10 pounds?
________
Zx14 vs hayabusa (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_bike_is_quicker_kawasaki_zx_-14_or_suzuki_hayabusa)

250 / 3029 = 12.12 lbs/hp

247 / 3029 = 12.26 lbs/hp


So it means an increase of .14 lbs/hp or 2.24 oz/hp, basically a negligible change.

I ran a simulation in Cartest2000 and the 0-60 time remained equal at 5.98 s but the only change was of only .01 s in the quarter mile, 14.46 vs 14.45

oh my god - what are we all going to do??? 3 less horsepower? Forget it, I am cancelling my order. I don't want a car with 247HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So if I just finished eating a quarter-pounder, medium fries & medium coke, how much longer would it take me to drive to LA?:cool:

I know it was already posted, but 250 PS (aka DIN horsepower) is equal to 247 US/UK/SAE net horsepower. They are the same real power, just calculated differently.

You can do the conversion yourself using this tool: http://www.statman.info/conversions/power.html

It's widely known the German DIN horsepower rating is optimistic vs US SAE net horsepower. In fact some humerously refer to DIN as "Deutschland Invented Number" :)

I stopped by the dealership today, and picked up a brochure. In the brochure it says everywhere 250hp, with no disclaimer about it being provisional, unless I just missed it....

Sticker says 247hp.

Odd huh? I know 3hp is negligible, but 247 to me doesn't sound nearly as nice as 250 good even round number horsepower. I wish they could just make it 250.... ;)

BTW the car was stunning. Silver and Titanium with red leather (auto). However, the silver was 6sp parked outside, and they were giving test drives!! He said it already had 60 miles on it and offered to let me head out. However, couldn't find the keys (in another salesman's pocket) and after we were done browsing at Miatas the RX-8 was suddenly in the garage getting a cleaning. Bummer.... However I was promised I should come back. Maybe I'd better do that tomorrow before they sell that thing :D

If anyone is interested it was at Sterling Mazda in Sterling Heights on Van Dyke just south of 18 Mile. If you're thinking about buying the car, please wait until after the weekend so I have a chance to drive it first ;)

It didn't lose 3 horsepower. Horsepower means different things throughout the world.

250 German (international) Horsepower = 247 American Horsepower

It is about a 1% difference.

-Mr. Wigggles

I read a short Q&A with the Mazda release manager linked from this forum about a week ago and he said:

247 horsepower at the crank after EPA certification
204 horsepower at the wheels

(I wish I had bookmarked the link).

Also for what it's worth, my dealer said the reason for the long port delay was the cars failing one of three EPA tests.

You are all right.

Mazda had said 250 HP for most of the waiting period.

Mazda changed this to 247 HP a few months back, probably after EPA certification.

The magazine ads just say "250 HP" without qualifying what "HP" means.

The big glossy brochure that opens on either side (Part No 9999-92-010R-04) says "Horsepower, SAE NET - 250."

There's also a disclaimer saying that anything may have changed after publication of the brochure and you should check with your dealer for actual information.

Bottom line, though, it's 247, and if you don't think that's good enough, buy something else...

Originally posted by wanker
247 horsepower at the crank after EPA certification
204 horsepower at the wheels

I know it's not a big difference but he said 204-207 hp at the wheels. Is it common for a car to lose 40 hp in drivetrain losses? How does it work, a fixed hp loss or a percentage?

Originally posted by neit_jnf


I know it's not a big difference but he said 204-207 hp at the wheels. Is it common for a car to lose 40 hp in drivetrain losses? How does it work, a fixed hp loss or a percentage?

lol Us Euro's have lost 20bhp before it gets to the wheels :( 231ps or 228bhp then drivetrain loss ...

Originally posted by Hercules
6 lbs = 1 horsepower

You'll have to lose a lot of weight :)

I've just gained over 6hp on the Atkins Diet then!:D

It's funny reading this thread now... LOL. It's funny Mazda was never sued over the HUGE discrepancy between their numbers this time around.

rofl

he he - the claim went from 250 to 247 to 232
The actual we now know - is more like 215 at the flywheel .
Wonder what the original poster would think of that !