It seems like everyone has a generally positive outlook on the RX-8. It's understandable as many of you are soon to be owners. I'm very interested in this car as well, but from my last purchase (see sig) I'm hesitant to part with my money again w/o knowing all the facts on all sides.

- What are some negatives with this car?
- Lack of torque?
- Space?
- Mazda Service? Acura really isn't all that...
- I've never owned a rotary engine car, but have heard of some reliability issues (especially w/ the seal between the points). Is this an issue with the new Renisis engine?

Feel free to throw in some positives as well...I may need a little arm twisting...

A few negatives for me are:

-no US spec auto climate control
-no spare tire
-no fold down rear seats
-small trunk space
-no storage compartment if ordered w/o navigation

Those are all small and overcomeable issues though and the positives far outweigh them, in my opinion.

Originally posted by VWjet
A few negatives for me are:

-no US spec auto climate control
-no spare tire
-no fold down rear seats
-small trunk space
-no storage compartment if ordered w/o navigation

Those are all small and overcomeable issues though and the positives far outweigh them, in my opinion.

i'd have to agree with all those points and add just one more:

- not as fast as the current crop of sports cars/luxury sports cars (ie. S2000, 350Z, G35, Impreza STi, etc.)

again, there are too many positives to list, which indeed outweigh the negatives...just think of it this way, Car and Driver just rated the RX-8 #1 over the Infiniti G35 which was their Automobile of the Year last year...this is possibly a clear indication of the RX-8 winning that title this year

I went to the Revitup event this weekend. All my friends thought it felt a little crapped in the back but it was comfortible at the same time. I find few negatives about this car.

One other thing. The exhuast note is realllyyyy quiet. I perfer a little more noise from the pipes. Aftermarket will fix that

Originally posted by RotorGeek
All my friends thought it felt a little crapped...All our friends are going to have the crap kicked out of them if they try to take us on in the twisties.:D :D :D

ooooohh yeah two of my friends have old Mustangs. It is going to be fun

The answer depends completely on what you're looking for in a car. For me, I suspect that it's not going to be able to take the current B-Stock champ S2k at the autocross. But, since I'm nowhere near nationally competetive, that's not really an issue. Most people don't care about that. Someone commented that the exhaust note is too quiet. I'm a stealth guy, the softer the exhaust note the better. Some complain about the car being "slow", or lacking torque. It should only be slow if you're not a very good driver or only find straights amusing. I think it finished 0.1 seconds behind the G35 coupe in the comparison test a few months back, and I would be willing to bet that anyone complaining the car is slow would lose a similar race by 10X more if they were driving the "faster" G35 coupe against whoever drove the RX-8 in that test. Drag racing is by far the least interesting form of racing ever invented, IMHO, so I couldn't care less about that issue.

So, if you want a drag racing car, it's too slow. If you want an autocross car, it may or may not be nationally competetive in class. If you want a family hauler, it may not have enough trunk room. If you want an economy car, it drinks too much gas and costs too much. If you want to tow your boat...you get the idea.

But, some would argue that response is avoiding the issue. If I could improve one thing (a bit difficult to imagine without driving the car) I'd either drop the weight, lower the gearing, or drop the price. :) Unfortunatly, like everything else that's been mentioned so far, making a change of that nature would hurt the car in other areas. It would certainly hurt the "civilized" nature of the car, and would probably add to the cost. More trunk space means more weight, worse performance, and worse styling. More space in the back seats is the same as more trunk space. Higher performance/more torque means either more cost, more weight, or less usability, but most likely it means all three.

Fixing any of the downsides anyone mentions means increasing the downsides someone else sees.

Here's one big negative point against the RX-8 right now:

** It's not in my driveway yet.

Good points Rich...

While I've autocrossed before (in my CL no less) I do not plan on participating again in my primary car. It is too much wear and tear on a car that I drive to work everyday or take long road trips in.

I've also done the 1320 in my CL and yeah, like you said, very pointless...I didn't even get a rush out of it.

I had a 95 Integra prior with Neuspeed springs and a few other suspension knick-knacks. The thing I missed most when I went to the CL was the tossibility of the car. I used to be able to enter a corner much later and still make it through OK with a hard enough jab to the brakes. Now with the CL, I have to plan waaaay ahead before making the corner and even then I felt like the car was going "float" off the corner (coilovers/sways helped a little)

You mention below that you have to be a "good" driver to get the full potential of the car. What do you mean by that? You have to know how to plan for corners? You have to know how to heel-toe?

I also read the comparison test about the G35 vs RX-8 vs ??? And I remember those guys saying they had to do a launch at some ridiculous RPM range. So does that mean in an everyday driving situation, passing would be an issue?

And what's the estimated MPG for the RX-8? I'm currently paying out the ass for my 3.2L CL.

No room for a family is not a problem...I'm 24 years old...not expecting a baby anytime soon. The "wife" thing is next on my list. :D

Originally posted by Rich Some complain about the car being "slow", or lacking torque. It should only be slow if you're not a very good driver or only find straights amusing. I think it finished 0.1 seconds behind the G35 coupe in the comparison test a few months back, and I would be willing to bet that anyone complaining the car is slow would lose a similar race by 10X more if they were driving the "faster" G35 coupe against whoever drove the RX-8 in that test.[/B]

i'm not talking about how a good driver can make a big difference when racing two cars...i'm talking about the FACT that the RX-8 IS a slower car period...you take the same two people and have them drive an RX-8 and a 350Z respectively, the 350Z will win everytime...hence the RX-8 IS slower...sure you take a half-ass driver and plug him into the 350Z vs. a good driver in the RX-8 and the RX will come out on top, but that's a handicap...

all i'm saying is, it is indeed slower...by how much? to me it's negligible since i'm not a racer and the RX will be my daily driver to and from work, with occasional spurts here and there...i'm not looking for a speed machine because then i would have bought the 350Z...i want the comfortable backseats and 4 doors in which to get to them, which is why i didn't buy the G35c...

Originally posted by BRx8
i'm talking about the FACT that the RX-8 IS a slower car period...you take the same two people and have them drive an RX-8 and a 350Z respectively, the 350Z will win everytime...hence the RX-8 IS slower...

Well, the 350Z isn't the right car to compare it to, since it's a two-seater.

As for the RX-8 being slower than the G35 coupe, that's not true. The RX-8 is slower in a straight line, yes. Yet it finished on the track 0.1 seconds (I can't find the actual time difference, so that's from memory) than the G35c. That's negligible. In addition, it clearly shows that the RX-8 should be the faster car in the twisties. Since autocrossing is all twisties, I would expect the RX-8 to be faster on the autocross course. The G35c will be faster in some situations (straight line), but I doubt it's faster on all courses. On the street, no one should ever come remotely close to testing which car is faster than another car, ever. The two are so evenly matched that any comparison there will come down to which driver has less of an aversion to jail or death.

The point I was trying to make about different drivers is not a comparison between a skilled driver in a slow car being faster than a less skilled one in a faster car. The point is that the argument about which car is faster is silly. The only purpose of such conversations is in trying to gain some sort of artificial feeling of superiority on internet message boards. Who is every going to acutally test this premise, other than magazines? And who cars about 0.1 seconds on a track 99.99% of owners will never drive on? It's a silly and pointless arguement. Add in the fact that the driver will make far more of a difference than any tiny difference in the car and you really have a moot point. Heck, I've beaten NSXs, Z06 Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros, Preludes, Lotus Esprit Turbos, and more. I've also lost to Hyundai Elantras and plenty of Honda Civics. Does that mean a Miata is faster than an NSX but slower than an Elantra?
The purpose of cars is to enjoy driving them, not to compare how many fractions of a second faster they go with someone else driving them on a track you'll never drive on. It really amazes me how much people care about 0-60 times and magazine's race track times. Those are nothing more than a false validation of a belief in something that doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by Rich The point is that the argument about which car is faster is silly. The only purpose of such conversations is in trying to gain some sort of artificial feeling of superiority on internet message boards. Who is every going to acutally test this premise, other than magazines? And who cars about 0.1 seconds on a track 99.99% of owners will never drive on? It's a silly and pointless arguement. Add in the fact that the driver will make far more of a difference than any tiny difference in the car and you really have a moot point.[/B]


unfortunately Rich, and i'm not trying to argue with you as i see many valid points in your argument, most people buy sports cars for the speed they offer...straight-line performance is more important to a greater percentage of people than you think...autocrossing is not for everyone, while everyone can benefit from straight-line performance...how? everyone drives on the street and stops at stop lights...street races will happen, and i'm sure you are not immune to them yourself...i generally try to stay away from them but there are always those occasions that your feet feels particularly heavy and you just can't help but want to test your car against others occupying the road with you...i've had Miata's, Civic's, Integra's, Celica's, Stealth's, Jeep Grand Cherokee's(!), etc. coming up to the line, revving up, and motioning for a straight-line race all the time...well, hey, i bought a sports car, why not race? sometimes i win, sometimes i lose, most of the time the race ends with a thumbs up from both parties...

the bottom line is, you're right...the .01 seconds doesn't matter...none of it really matters unless you're in competition and there's some sort of prize at the finish line...it's really all a matter of self-indulgence...for some people, that moment of pride is prize enough to warrant the purchase of a sports car

Speed isn't every thing,

I remember reading a magazine when I was younger, in which after an exhaustive test they decided the fastest car A-B on british roads was a toss up between the impreza, the elan and the lancia Evo 3. I see the '8 in a similar mould.

the only straight lines for a tyre burning start are usually to be found in built up areas, and who wants the potential consequences of that on their concience.

I for one want the speed on the twisty bits and the personal kudos of driving something a little different.

350Z, not available in scotland
Audi TT, every hairdresser in the land has one.
2000S, I'm well over six foot for petes sake.
Elise, ditto,

Scooby or evo, they crawl out of the woodwork all over scotland.

But don't think I'm a defender of the faith, I admit to being worried about the environmental impact of this machine, C02 and mpg are pretty horrific, as well as the persistant worry over reliability of the rotor.

At least I can set my mind more at ease via one of the carbon neutral websites.

Originally posted by BRx8


i'd have to agree with all those points and add just one more:

- not as fast as the current crop of sports cars/luxury sports cars (ie. S2000, 350Z, G35, Impreza STi, etc.)



Why do people always say the S2000 is faster when the performance numbers are similar in regards to power??

My two questions above still haven't been answered.

1) What's the acceleration like at highway speeds. While I understand 0-60 standing starts is not practical for everyday driving (unless you're in Pittsburgh where they put stop signs on Freeway entrance ramps) I would like to know how the RX-8 does for passing 30mph to 60mph.

2) What is the estimated MPG and for you folks in Japan, what's the real world MPG (or Km/L ?).

Originally posted by BRx8
street races will happen, and i'm sure you are not immune to them yourself...

Absolutely never have, and I never will.

chikai - If you're in the right gear, you'll have no problem with passing. Passing in 6th gear is likely to be slow, but any opportunity to rev to redline should be worth it. :D
I won't speculate on gas mileage.

Originally posted by chikai
My two questions above still haven't been answered.

1) What's the acceleration like at highway speeds. While I understand 0-60 standing starts is not practical for everyday driving (unless you're in Pittsburgh where they put stop signs on Freeway entrance ramps) I would like to know how the RX-8 does for passing 30mph to 60mph.

2) What is the estimated MPG and for you folks in Japan, what's the real world MPG (or Km/L ?).

I think the 30-60 times tested were not spectacular, but I wonder what gear they used for the test. Basically, for a moving spurt or WOT run it will depend on whether or not you are afraid to drop a gear or two to raise rpms into the bigger power band. In other words, if you are cruising at 30 in 3rd gear and just mash the pedal, you will not be impressed - but if you downshift and blip into 2nd and stomp on it, you will smile. At least that's how it was in my FC - and that had about 90 less hp than the RX-8 HP.

Edit: I will point out, though, that with my FC, winding up 1st gear was critical to getting into 2nd gear's power range, so downshifting from as low as 30 isn't quite as spectacular as say downshifting from 40 or 50. Also, shifting up from first really early put you behind the curve, as well. With many cars we are not used to winding up 1st gear - at least that is not how I was taught to drive a stick. I had to break that habit when I got my RX-7, and it was so much fun!

Originally posted by chikai
My two questions above still haven't been answered.

1) What's the acceleration like at highway speeds?

2) What is the estimated MPG and for you folks in Japan, what's the real world MPG (or Km/L ?).

1.) try the Search function... look up any thread where Buger (the guy's name) has posted, and it's guaranteed 1000% great.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=931&perpage=20&highlight=S2000&pagenumber=9

scroll down... also, good simulated comparison between S2000 and RX-8. (may not be as slow as you think BRx-8)

2). the EPA rated it at 19/24 or something... i dunno if JSG or EASTMOONsan has reported any of thier findings yet (there probably isn't a large enough data population to take an adequate sample yet)... but, i'm still hopeful. your real-world MPG is far more dependant upon driving habits (not just throttle angle, but braking, shift points, cruising speeds, shift points, etc.)

Originally posted by wakeech
scroll down... also, good simulated comparison between S2000 and RX-8. (may not be as slow as you think BRx-8)

thanks for the links, Wakeech...those posts were made way before i joined this board...anyways, those numbers are from Jan...how accurate are Buger's numbers from then compared to now? (i honestly don't know)

and btw, in no way was i implying the RX is slow...what i'm trying to say is that IMO one of its negative points is it is slowER than a lot of it's direct competitors, the same competitors Mazda themselves have placed the RX against...

JSG and EAST MOON are getting around 18mpg citty and like 22 highway or something like that

Positive on the 18 though.
________
Wendie 99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

As much fun as I expect the 8 to be, it's just a car. Forget the car
and get a real life. Whatever happened to the purpose of transportation? --seeing friends, enjoying the countryside,
stopping by some watering hole. If I stand back for a moment, this car culture thing has gone too far. I want the probing and excitment because the advancement of engineering does great things. I want Mazda rewarded. But don't forget they are playing you guys like a fiddle. We've become a bit too obsessive
here, in my opinion. And I have been obsessive myself, and spent last weekend thinking about normal people. And thinking about proper best returns for my entertainment dollar. And thinking about my sailing days when I thought those stink potters were too noisy or too rich for the good of this planet.
I always use to say, no matter what the boat we all get the same view!
Some of you guys have become a bit too anal about this RX-8.
Get some fresh air.

Now to sound balanced here, I'm sure you are getting enjoyment from what you do. I don't mean to take that away, but lighten up a bit.

Think about the day you'll be trading this in on the next wonder.
Will it really seem so important then?

Sorry, but it had to be said.

gord boyd i am impressed by your deep thoughts i am happy that some one realises that there is more to life than a motor car, you a getting closer to self actualisation well done.

IMHO, the biggest negative in the U.S. is the options Mazda decided we'll get, namely the fact that a moonroof is mandatory in the Touring and GT packages.

I'd like heated leather seats, but there's no way I'm going to fit headroom-wise in the car with the moonroof option.

My negatives are:
-EPA of 18/24 is pretty crappy, especially for 2003 technology standards.
-Lack of auto temp is silly for the market this car is targeted for.
-No fold down rear seats, but I'm willing to loose that for the extra stiffness of a cross-brace.

The writers at Carpoint seem to think that automatic climate control is a PITA, and not as effective or reliable as a good old manual logicon. I can't speak to that myself, but perhaps it is more that Mazda chose to eliminate that "gimmick" from their bag of tricks for the U.S. market in favor of a more useful system. Personally, I think the auto system would be pretty neat, but I'm glad that if anything had to be pared back for our market, it was that rather than the HP rating. Not that there is a correlation there, but it could be worse. It seems like almost every market is losing out on something.

As much fun as I expect the 8 to be, it's just a car

If that is how I looked at a car, I would NOT be getting the RX-8.

The RX-8 is going to be an extension of me, and who I am. Now that's deep.

Is that not what any Sports Car is?

About the passing power... it's what rotary engines are known for.

When you get higher and higher in the RPM range, the car will get more and more powerful. It tops out at max power being at 8500RPMs at which point you've got a lot of power to pass. This is also the reason why the 0-60 times come with a high-rpm launch.

However keep in mind as well that 90% of available torque is available to you at 3250RPMs so that 'get up and go' off the line won't be terribly quick.. but it won't be obscenely slow either.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gord boyd
[B]As much fun as I expect the 8 to be, it's just a car. Forget the car
and get a real life.


I'm with you GordBoyd, I look at some of these posts about people constantly calling Mazda asking,screaming where the hell their car is. I can't help but laugh because, like its going to help them by freakin out about it. Just chill the damn cars will be here soon enough!
I'll just bid my time till my car makes it here, then I won't have a life anymore and my wife will divorce me. :( :D

Originally posted by gord boyd
As much fun as I expect the 8 to be, it's just a car. Forget the car
and get a real life.

you're forgetting a few important points here...

1) this is a car forum...we talk about the positives and negatives of the car because, well, that's the point of the forum

2) this is an RX-8 forum...at this point in the game, the car is for enthusiasts as only the hardcore would really preorder a first generation, first year car with so many innovative features that is being done for the first time...hence, we will talk about the positives and negatives to the nth degree until there's nothing to talk about...at which point we'll find something else to talk about regarding the car

3) i agree that a car's main purpose is to transport people but that's also the least important when talking about sports cars...why get a Rolex when you can get a Casio since a watch is only for telling time? why get RL, DKNY, or Kenneth Cole when you can get Target, Wal-Mart, or K-Mart? a sports car is a special type of car whose respective owners wish to express themesleves

4) probably the most important point your missing - the thread itself is asking "What are the negative points on the RX-8?" poster asks a valid question, other posters answer with their opinions. if you wish not participate in the conversation, then just bypass it altogether. what was the point in commenting about how "normal people" act and such?

PS - oh, i found another point: many of us don't have our cars yet! so it's inherent that we would ask questions with the possibility that someone may have the answer...and again brings me to my first point, the whole reason we're here on a car forum board

Originally posted by dreamgetter1
I'm with you GordBoyd, I look at some of these posts about people constantly calling Mazda asking,screaming where the hell their car is. I can't help but laugh because, like its going to help them by freakin out about it. Just chill the damn cars will be here soon enough!
I'll just bid my time till my car makes it here, then I won't have a life anymore and my wife will divorce me. :( :D [/B]

so we should not be upset about the dealer screwing up and not ordering the car when they were supposed to? we should not be upset that we couldn't get answers from our dealers so then tried mazda only to have them say "ask your dealer". if we get poor customer service we should just not do anything about it? maybe you want to do that but i sure as hell don't like being told "if you pre-order you'll get this that and the other benefit" only to find out it's all screwed up and they are seemingly unwilling or unable to do anything about it. it's because of people who stand up and say "that's not right" that things change so people do not have to go thru the same thing in the future. do a search on this forum on the mazda6 packaging. when that first came out people on this forum as well as attenza forums and others saw how terrible it was making you purchase 2 or 3 seperate "packages" when you only wanted 1 of them. we got together and sent our complaints to mazda and they did make changes to them. we did that because we did not want to see the same kind of ludicrous packaging for the 8 and i can tell you that we made an impact. sit back and take crap all you want. i for one will not and am glad that others feel the same way.

zoom44 has a good point. as does Gordboyd.
if, like me, you have been getting the emails and the book. then you should not be calling mazda and the dealer everyday looking to see if your car is here, you know it is not here because im sure someone will post the second it arrives ( i willl post as soon as i see the truck unload!) but if you have not gotten your emails or vin. then yes you should call and find out why. it seems like most of the time it seems to be the dealers fault more than mazda. besides after reading these threads it seems like nobody is going to get a different answer other than july delivery. mazda will just not commit to a june delivery (not saying it wont happen in june, just saying mazda will not promise a june delivery) so it does no good to call mazda daily looking for your car, at least not until you see that someone else in america has one.

Originally posted by zoom44


sit back and take crap all you want. i for one will not and am glad that others feel the same way.

I don't sit back and take crap as you put it Zoom, but when something like manufacturing a car,is as complex as I think it must be, and it is a first run of a new model there are bound to be a few screw ups. I guess the question is can you handle the screw up or are you gonna let it shake you up to the point that you think you can get something from someone by screamin at them?

I for one would make my point, get the answer, if it wasn't the one I was looking for I would decide to stay or say f__k it and leave. But that's just me and my qwan. You do whatever you want but don't mind me while I laugh my ass off.

actually i am not even that upset about the screwups(although i was dissappointed) what really pisses me of is that noone seems to be willing or able to fix the pre-order problems. and while it seems people are you say screming about it, that is venting here which comes from the frustration of not being able to get the problem fixed sometimes after months of trying. yes the car will come but how many more times will i have to postpone my vacation before my car actually is here. i had already planned for june then moved it to july and now have to move it to august.

Originally posted by zoom44
actually i am not even that upset about the screwups(although i was dissappointed) what really pisses me of is that noone seems to be willing or able to fix the pre-order problems. and while it seems people are you say screming about it, that is venting here which comes from the frustration of not being able to get the problem fixed sometimes after months of trying. yes the car will come but how many more times will i have to postpone my vacation before my car actually is here. i had already planned for june then moved it to july and now have to move it to august.

your problem sems to be a dealer problem not a mazda problem. its not mazda pre-order sytem that screwed you it was the dealer that didnt place your order on time. i have had no problems at all and it seems everyone who placed there order at this same dealer isnt having any problems. i dont think you should be blaming mazda you should be blaming the dealer (they are 2 different entities!)

Originally posted by zoom44
actually i am not even that upset about the screwups(although i was dissappointed) what really pisses me of is that noone seems to be willing or able to fix the pre-order problems. and while it seems people are you say screming about it, that is venting here which comes from the frustration of not being able to get the problem fixed sometimes after months of trying. yes the car will come but how many more times will i have to postpone my vacation before my car actually is here. i had already planned for june then moved it to july and now have to move it to august.

I feel your frustration Zoom, if it was me I would have been vacationing because I know my car and her deposit would be there when I got back. I for one never let things I have no control over dictate or influence my life, but then again that's just me.:)

ahh yes there are many problems from my dealer's side of things. but it is mazda's pre-order program. they are the ones who did not make sure all of the dealers were up to speed before it went online. it is mazda who did not have a system in place to fix the (as dreamgetter has rightly put it) problems when they inevitably arose with this new program. and if they did, it is mazda who did not communicate it with the dealers properly. why was it me who was the go between for mazda and my dealer for 2 months when either of them should have picked up the phone and had a way to fix the problems. it was not until may that mazda started telling people how to get their pre-orders fixed and then i only found out because someone posted it on this forum. and then i had to tell my dealer about it. why did mazda not send out a memo to the dealers with this info? How is it that the dealer did not know about the pre-order gifts until i told them in April when i asked them (again with the new info) to try to fix the order status.

yes my dealer has a large amount of fault here but MNAO or MazdaUSA has it's share also.

i normally would not either Dreamgetter however the vacation plans include driving the car, of course. ;)
i think i have hijacked this thread enough lets get back on track.
i don't much like the fuel economy numbers.

Originally posted by zoom44
.

yes my dealer has a large amount of fault here but MNAO or MazdaUSA has it's share also.

yes, in your case they both seem to have problems. and it sounds like you got screwed big time. well better you than me. :D :D :D

Originally posted by ibfubar2000
.... so it does no good to call mazda daily looking for your car, at least not until you see that someone else in america has one.

very good point ibfubar2000. that goes well with elara's the other day about not slamming rx8orders too much. at one time or another they have been very helpful to many of us and they have tried to help whenever they could, but don't know or have access to all of the answers and are in tough situation. lets give them a breather folks.

well better you than me. :D :D:D
shaddapp!!!:p ;)

sorry i went of topic again:o :D

Mazda should hire me to run things :)

I think Zoom needs to be Director of Customer Relations!! As well as a few more important posts at MNAO, then I feel there would be no lack of communication between Builder and seller and customer!!:D

About the vacation Zoom it's that damn Murphy's Law thing?!:D

The only negative thing I see about the 8 is that I'm not driving the car home yet!

Originally posted by zoom44




shaddapp!!!:p ;)

sorry i went of topic again:o :D


ROFL!!! LOL!!

Originally posted by dreamgetter1
I think Zoom needs to be Director of Customer Relations!! As well as a few more important posts at MNAO, then I feel there would be no lack of communication between Builder and seller and customer!!:D



I'd take that job except i would have to wait until next year to get a discount on my RX-8!

Originally posted by dreamgetter1
The only negative thing I see about the 8 is that I'm not driving the car home yet!

I hear ya!