hi everyone.

I already have Racing Beat Catback. Love it!

What my next mod should be.

Racing Beat
Aluminum Flywheel or Suspension Package

Anyone with RB Suspension Package with pictures....?
Do you really feel the difference?

Any comment on Aluminum Flywheel from RB (HP wise)?

[My 8 will be equipped only with Racing Beat products]

Keep the excellent work RB team!!!!!!!!

Waiting impatiently for the RB intake and Body Kit and more.......

Thank you in advance

SilverBullitt

Silver Bullitt,

I have the RB suspension package and it is phenomenal. My steering is almost telepathic now. The input you give the car is where it will go. little bit stiffer ride, but not bad at all. No pictures, sorry. It really depends on what you value more. Increased acceleration (get the flywheel), or cornering (get the suspension package).

I thought the body kit was out already ? I saw it at the RB open house. Pretty nice, very good fit & finish.

If you want a smooth ride, keep it stock.

Otherwise it's a little bumpy with the RB suspension, but much better than all the other cars I've been in with competitors suspension,

you mean this bodykit? somehow they managed to make the RX-8 look less agressive and more like an 80s honda...I agree that RB has GREAT products..but they should stick to performance and stay away from styling IMHO
http://www.racingbeat.com/RX8_kit/RX8%20Kit.1.jpg

My opinion, you should go with Suspension Kit first. Flywheels isn't all that, I mean, you rev a lot faster, but you also lose a lot of torque. Unless you drive like a race car driver all the time, its going to get annoying having to always rev high and shift fast just to keep the RPM going.

My opinion, you should go with Suspension Kit first. Flywheels isn't all that, I mean, you rev a lot faster, but you also lose a lot of torque. Unless you drive like a race car driver all the time, its going to get annoying having to always rev high and shift fast just to keep the RPM going.

is that really how a flywheel works? on a cylinder engine yes, but on a rotary engine I don't think so...do a search this one has been covered extensively

well what is the price difference of the two?

i would say suspension but i've also been looking at the flywheel setup. keep us posted on what you do.

flywheel is going to run you about $500 for the flywheel itself, and about $300 for the install.

whats the suspension run? installed?

What does the suspention package include? Do you mean all of these?


1- Front Springs
2- Rear Springs
3- Front sway bar
4- Rear Sway bar
5- Sway bar endlinks


Could you just go with the front and rear springs just to lower the ride height?

I like that spoiler. Is that also Racing Beat? you got more pics?

Yes, I'm thinking to go with the full suspention package of RB..

I like that spoiler. Is that also Racing Beat? you got more pics?
http://www.racingbeat.com/RX8_kit/RX8%20Kit.4.jpg

looks like a flat top

What does the suspention package include? Do you mean all of these?


1- Front Springs
2- Rear Springs
3- Front sway bar
4- Rear Sway bar
5- Sway bar endlinks


Could you just go with the front and rear springs just to lower the ride height?

Everything except the endlinks. Check out the RB website (www.racingbeat.com).

UPDATE:

I ordered the RB suspension package today + End Links

I'll Keep you posted!!!

Unfortunately, my baby is sleeping for winter (Quebec weather), I will have to wait until spring before testing my new suspension.

Next on my list:
Waiting for RB Intake and RB Body Kit.


Simon.

My opinion, you should go with Suspension Kit first. Flywheels isn't all that, I mean, you rev a lot faster, but you also lose a lot of torque. Unless you drive like a race car driver all the time, its going to get annoying having to always rev high and shift fast just to keep the RPM going.


Hmm, I too wonder if this is the case. I was contemplating the MS Flywheel, but many have said it improved the car's responsiveness. If what Sociopath says is true, then I dont think I'd like the lightened flywheel.

Anyone wish to chime in..

No way you'll lose torque with a lighter flywheel - Flywheels don't make torque. Basically, with a lighter flywheel the car will accelerate as if it has about 10hp more in 1st gear...6hp more in 2nd gear, by fourth gear, the acceleration advantages will be gone.

:)

I got the RacingBeat Flywheel, Ran Me about $700 after labor, Defenitly Gives you some Accel from 6k On. Id Go with the Flywheel. Mazda did a pretty good job on our suspention, we have take care of the power problem they left us with LOL, good luck Bro

i think u should go with suspension and build up a good feel for the car, then do engine mods but 1st we must handle!!!!

The Prolite flywheel at Rx8Store.com is only $250. It's 9.5 lbs. which is 1 lb. less than the MS one, but for half the cost. This sounds fishy. Anyone else have any thoughts?

I went with the MS flywheel so I could retain the warranty. After feeling the difference that it made, I wish I had had the cohones to get one of the lighter aftermarket FW's. The difference in acceleration is noticible. There is no loss of drivability. You don't have to " always rev high and shift fast just to keep the RPM going,". Thats nuts. I think the ECU is programmed to keep the RPM's up between shifts anyway.

How about a full coilover suspension instead of springs, jic magic and tein make great full suspensions, which are fully adjustable and can be setup for any kind of track or street conditions.

I had an RB aluminum flywheel and SR light pulleys installed at the same time. My 8 feels more responsive everywhere in the RPM range and pulls REAL nice above 6k rpm - Mmmmm. No driveability issue either or "loss of torque". It's simply extra power to the wheels and not wasted = accelerates quicker (without combustion enhancing mods). Seemed like an extra 10-20 hp unleashed.

I now have RB sway-bars waiting to be installed but I wanted to free up some HP first. Quicker acceleration is a priority for me.

I have been asked this same question via p.m. by several people and I tell them, depending on their financial situation, to first get the suspension package(or at least the rear swaybar) because traction and wheel hop are issues for even a stock RX-8. I think the Racing Beat springs and sways are a great upgrade for a reasonable cost. The change in feel is just enough to make you feel the road a little better but not as if you are driving on cobblestones all the time. After we can get the car to use what power it has a little more efficiently I would then either go for a cat-replacement pipe or flywheel. Either of those mods will give roughly the same result. The nice thing about the flywheel as opposed to the cat is that flywheels are emissions-compliant.

Overall, I would say that the three best mods for the money are to do the suspension, cat removal midpipe, and then flywheel. After that, if you're up for it, a modest nitrous kit works well, too. Then do all the small stuff like pulleys and such.

I don't understand the math involved in the idea that the benefit of a light fly becomes diminished in the higher gears. Did I miss that conversation on the forum?

Charles

The Prolite flywheel at Rx8Store.com is only $250. It's 9.5 lbs. which is 1 lb. less than the MS one, but for half the cost. This sounds fishy. Anyone else have any thoughts?
I'm not a complete expert on this, but don't be fooled by the weights of the flywheels. The weight is not the most important factor, rather the flywheels moment of inertia. The placement of the weight is more important than the amount. If the weight is closer to the center than it will have a lower moment of inertia, this is a good thing, but you also want to consider structural integrity. You wouldn't want a company to compromise build quality for a slightly lower moment of inertia. I think I'm right, but someone will correct me if I fudged something up.

I wouldn't get a flywheel until your ready to replace the clutch also, thats an expensive install, might as well do everything at once.

The "moment of inertia" point has been made elsewhere, ad nauseum, but it is still a valid point in a way. I don't think that the RX's flywheel diameter is such that weight location will have as much impact as total weight. Brillo's point about doing a clutch/wheel combo is also good advice. If someone only had a couple thousand miles on their car and wanted a flywheel swapped I would say to do it now would mean they might only need the pressure plate and input shaft bearing and seal because the Exedy discs that come stock are pretty much what SR Motorsports provides with their kits.

Charles

I don't understand the math involved in the idea that the benefit of a light fly becomes diminished in the higher gears. Did I miss that conversation on the forum?

Charles


This xls spreadsheet was made for a miata - however, if you factor in the numbers for a RX8, it'll still show how the relative gains associated with a lighter flywheel reduce as you go up thru the gears.


http://www.d-mphotos.com/movies/flywheelcalculator.xls

Charles, I noticed you have a ACT clutch, I went to their site but its not listed, could you explain how you got it? Is it a prototype?

now i want a flywheel too...... Aside from the RB front bumper i really like the kit.

The spreadsheet shows what the final results will be but there is no engineering explanation as to why this is.

My clutch kit was purchased at SR Motorsports. It contains the ACT Extrmeme Duty pressure plate(MZ-010-X), Exedy disc(which looks very stock), Mazda counterweight, and the associated bearings and seals which were genuine Mazda parts. I can't remember how much I paid as it was part of a litany of things I ordered all at once. From things I have read since then, it looks like the RX-8 clutch is the same as the FD set up. Perhaps only the counterweight is different but there are better people than myself who know about that.

Charles

according to that spreadsheet, I gain the most hp by using a 100 lbs flywheel....


also, i'm strongly considering a lightweight flywheel, but with so many people having transmissions replaced, engines replaced, etc. How do you guys justify voiding your power train and engine warrantees? From what I've read, the MS flywheel is 10 lbs and since it has holes around the edges, should perform close to the RB flywheel, while being made out of a stronger chromly (sp) material.

How come I can't understand that spreadsheet???
Is it me? Can anyone read it?

The spreadsheet shows what the final results will be but there is no engineering explanation as to why this is.




If I were an engineer I could tell you, since I'm not, I'll quote from the guy who made the xls spreadsheet:


. It's greatest effect is in 1st gear and progressively gets less in each gear higher. That is because the lightened flywheel effects your rotational inertia of the drivetrain. The effect in each gear is proportional to the square of the overall gear ratio. That is, a gear ratio of 3:1 would have 9X the reduction in effective rotational inertia vs. a gear ratio of 1:1 with the same flywheel mounted before it. In the case of the Miata, if you had say a 10% improvement in acceleration in 1st gear due a a lightened flywheel, you would have 10% X (1/3.14)^2 or about 1% of an improvement in acceleration in 4th gear.

Well I R one and I have no trouble with the theory it's that speadsheet that makes no sense.

what clutches are you guys buying when you replace your flywheel? and what did they cost?

my car just hit 8,000 miles. Wouldn't the stock clutch last 100k+ miles?

If the spreadsheet engineer were thinking of things in terms of percentages, then I see exactly where he is coming from. The problem is, what constitutes a "10% improvement in acceleration"? I could see one saying that he cut 10% off of his acceleration time by going from a 5 s 0-60 to a 4.5 s, but the problem is that evaluating acceleration by using percenatges is not very useful. To see a .5s reduction in the 0-60 time would be more easily analyzed by using the popular weight-to-power ratio models alongside the rules of thumb offered out there. In my case, I have read the formula to be 2.7 h.p. per pound off the drivetrain weight. I realize that is a rather vague way to go about it, but my car is responding in at least the fashion (if not better) than those models have indicated. Besides, my handy slide rule from Moroso, which is over 20 years old, has been right on the money since I started modding my car. The only caveat with the slide rule is that it assumes 100% traction. The cool thing is that the G-Tech is showing similar results, which is why I am fairly confident that my readings are accurate.

Charles

p.s. I have an ACT Extreme Duty(#MZ-010-X) pressure plate with a stock-looking Exedy disc and Mazda counterweight, bearings and seal.

Keep kickin' ass Charles. By the way, you still working on that header design? Thanks

If the spreadsheet engineer were thinking of things in terms of percentages, then I see exactly where he is coming from. The problem is, what constitutes a "10% improvement in acceleration"? I could see one saying that he cut 10% off of his acceleration time by going from a 5 s 0-60 to a 4.5 s, but the problem is that evaluating acceleration by using percenatges is not very useful. To see a .5s reduction in the 0-60 time would be more easily analyzed by using the popular weight-to-power ratio models alongside the rules of thumb offered out there. In my case, I have read the formula to be 2.7 h.p. per pound off the drivetrain weight. I realize that is a rather vague way to go about it, but my car is responding in at least the fashion (if not better) than those models have indicated. Besides, my handy slide rule from Moroso, which is over 20 years old, has been right on the money since I started modding my car. The only caveat with the slide rule is that it assumes 100% traction. The cool thing is that the G-Tech is showing similar results, which is why I am fairly confident that my readings are accurate.

Charles

p.s. I have an ACT Extreme Duty(#MZ-010-X) pressure plate with a stock-looking Exedy disc and Mazda counterweight, bearings and seal.

The spredsheet doesn't show percentage of acceleration improvement - it shows the 'net effective gain' - as if the car would accelerate as if it had "x" many HP, for each gear. That's the point of the spredsheet.

In first gear, the car will accelerate as if it has 10 more HP (Than it had w/ a heavier Flywheel)...and so on.

OK, so Charles you can't read it as I can't. I just went back and looked again with what you said and what dmp said in mind. I still can't understand it. Remember when you were in elementry school you had to turn in your worksheet with your math to show you really know the equations. That would help here.

Someone tell the guy to turn in his worksheet.

UPDATE:

I ordered the RB suspension package today + End Links

I'll Keep you posted!!!


Simon.


simon i see you already made your decision but i thought i'd throw my .02 in anyway.IMHO if your going to do the flywheel you might as well save up the money and have a new clutch installed at the same time. no sense in doing the flywheel only to open her up a second time to do the clutch. waste of Labor dollars.

oh well upon furthur reading i see brillo and Charles already made that point. so carry on:)

I would make a clear distinction regarding the flywheel alone vs. the package approach, and it is this- if one is not too likely to go for major boosts in output like FI or nitrous and the vehicle has only a few thousand miles on it, then do a flywheel-only deal and save some money. The factory disc is an Exedy disc that looks very much like the one that can with my kit from SR Motorsports and the rest of the kit is also full of OEM Mazda parts . In addition, I have spoken with a friend who dyno's Indy and now NASCAR engines and he told me in the past that the Indy cars use factory Honda discs because the cars are so light and the factory piece works great.

Charles

BTW, Aoshi, the header, Ti PPF, and Ti rear links are all coming up very soon. I will be storing my car in the next week, or so, and that's when the prototyping begins.