i like the STi over the 8, but i was wondering why you guys would prefer the rx-8 over the sti? i found the torque of the rx-8 to be way too lacking for the pricing... i understand that some factors about choosing the rx-8 over the sti are it's rotary powered, interior and exterior styling, and mazda but what else?

i think the sti is better in terms of AWD, HP and torque, engine, weight saving strategies (glass, no standard stereo)

just wanted to hear some opinions on this

*cough*searchplease*cough*

I would just like to make one statement to all those "torquies": If you want torque pls take a DIESEL! I have a torque engine right now (Audi 1,8turbo 150 hp) and I don't like it, it is NOT sportive...

The Rx-8 is a sports car LIKE NO other! (And for me it will be a great successor to 2 MX-3s, which was marvellous too).

Even with the "weight saving strategies", the STi still tips the scales at 3263 pounds, or 250 pounds heavier than the RX-8.

As far as drag performance, it's no contest. MT reports a 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds and a 1/4 mile time of 13.1 seconds for the STi. The Evolution is even faster according to MT.

In terms of traditional definitions and overall measurements, the RX-8 is much closer to "sports car" than an STi.

In Canada, there will be at least a $10,000 :eek: difference between the two cars (RX-8 cheaper), so they're not really in the same price category up here.

also, sti is fugly!

Originally posted by rotarypower
.... weight saving strategies (glass....

what's this about glass?

and the sti has that gargantuan, ugly wing thing on the back. that's some kinda joke by subaru, right?

sti is nice just not for me. the regular wrx would be enough for me if for some reason i didn't get the rx-8.

both car's really serve a different purpose.

the RX-8 is more of a style over substance type car. It's made to turn heads with it's looks, not really it's performance numbers.

the STi on the other hand is basically there to make you jizz your pants after you've driven it. but looking at it, it's sort of an ugly duckling. when comparing it to the RX-8, it's not even a contest.

RX-8 = Sexy, stylish, "sporty" car.
STi = 4-door, "meh" styling, true performance vehicle

i wanna go with an RX-8 mainly because i can get one for $5K less, and turn many heads while crusin downtown in it. :D

ed

Originally posted by Trac
.......

the RX-8 is more of a style over substance type car. It's made to turn heads with it's looks, not really it's performance numbers.



yeah, because you know, 0-60 in less than 6 seconds is slow, the numbers the mags got in slalom don't count for anything and of course its incredible braking is just not important.

i agree with above...why? simple, how often am i gonna race the car or go to the track? am i really gonna try and make every turn into my driveway at 90mph? am i gonna try and race every Honda Civic at the light? no...i want a car that is as fun to drive as it is to look at, and the RX does have it all for me, in and out of the vehicle...

the WRX was my favorite car in Gran Turrismo and i drove my friends WRX STi when it first came out...unfortunately i do think they lack any styling appeal and should only be legal on dirt roads...they definitely look like the epitome of a rally car...i for one like exotic looking sports cars...for example my 3000GT, or the Supra, or the RX-7...i'm not the rally car type guy...i guess if i wanted to go off road, i'd buy an SUV

Originally posted by zoom44


yeah, because you know, 0-60 in less than 6 seconds is slow, the numbers the mags got in slalom don't count for anything and of course its incredible braking is just not important.

whoa there tiger.....no need to get defensive.

i'm here comparing the two cars....and when you compare the performance numbers of both, the STi blows the RX-8 out of the water in EVERY category.

i didn't say the RX-8 has no performance appeal....i said that it's not so much geared at the PURE performance junkies. It's geared more towards the people who want style/luxury with their sporty capabilities. The STi competes with the EVO, which competes with the S4.

the RX-8 competes more with the S2000 & 350Z. they're sporty car's....just not on the same level as the others i mentioned before it.

Originally posted by rotarypower
i think the sti is better in terms of AWD, HP and torque, engine, weight saving strategies (glass, no standard stereo)
just wanted to hear some opinions on this

Like you, I'm trying to decide between these two vehicles. Here in the US the price difference is probably $3k for similarly equipped cars (RX8 SP vs STi). I will definitely drive both cars before final judgement but here is my current thinking:

RX8: light, nimble, more compliant ride, nice interior/exterior (materials, workmanship, etc)

STi: questionable styling (I happen to like it, wing, hoodscoop and all), monster amounts of power to make up for it's additional weight, all-wheel-drive for better performance in less than ideal situations (having had a pretty bad skid in my FF car, I'm terribly frightened of driving in the rain with an RWD).

Keep in mind that the WRX was essentially a $15K econobox with a monster engine. Your money is going towards the engine/suspension, etc. The STi is perhaps a $20K car with the monster engine/suspension. It's up to you to decide whether you want to pay mostly those sorts of things or for a more generally refined car. One other thing that was pointed out to me is that there are a lot more moving parts in the STi, thus many more points of potential failure than an RX8, something to think about.
That said, in the end it will really come down to which on puts a bigger grin on your face after driving it. I'm confident that nobody will be able to fault you no matter which you choose.

*sigh* why are we having this conversation again? Perhaps we should go to an STi forum and ask them in a rather challenging manner WHY they aren't buying an RX-8! It's pretty simple, actually. I don't want an STi. I want an RX-8. Why do I need more reason than that?

I'm terribly frightened of driving in the rain with an RWD

No, not really rain. It's ice and snow. A aquaintancy of me hit a bridge when spinning around "being passed by your own rear....". This is where theses electronic gadgets and helpers will go to work for you! I would never disable ABS, DSC or whatever in my car....

Originally posted by Elara
*sigh* why are we having this conversation again? Perhaps we should go to an STi forum and ask them in a rather challenging manner WHY they aren't buying an RX-8! It's pretty simple, actually. I don't want an STi. I want an RX-8. Why do I need more reason than that?

No offense, but not everyone who posts or reads this forum is sure that they want an RX-8. Be happy that you know what you want, not all of us are so decisive! ^_^;;
Besides, there ARE similar posts in the WRX forums for people asking why they shouldn't buy an RX-8 instead of the STi.

Its all about Different needs my friends.

RX-8 gets you:
- Sport Car Styling
- Luxury Interior and features
- Rotary Engine, RX Bloodline
- Brand new Car from the ground up

Most people here probably weight these things pretty heavily and therefore would definitely pick the RX-8 over the STi.

On the contrary, if you post the opposite question on the WRX forum or the Evo forum, they would probably tell you that the RX-8 is not even AWD, or that it doesn't have enough power etc etc.

Unless you participate in the SCAA rally, drive like Solberg or Makinen, or wants to give your money to the police/government, otherwise how often you are going to use all that 300HP? I think the 227 in the standard WRX and the 250 in the RX-8 is way enough for daily driving. Also Subaru and Mitsubishi are competing fiercely in the AWD market, but the RX-8 is one of a kind out there.
Although the STi does look great (flying through the air and drifting on the dirt), the big hood scoop and big rear wing, but the RX-8 comes with the sexy rear doors, nicely designed interior and details.

OK, well I have a UK MY02 STi (265bhp) and I have an RX-8 Hi Power (237bhp) on order to replace it.

I do really want the RX-8 and cant wait for it to arrive, but part of me worries how much I'll miss the STI when its gone.

Both great cars (and different) IMHO.

Originally posted by ReX-8
Unless you participate in the SCAA rally, drive like Solberg or Makinen, or wants to give your money to the police/government, otherwise how often you are going to use all that 300HP? I think the 227 in the standard WRX and the 250 in the RX-8 is way enough for daily driving.
This brings to mind a quote from Michael Shummacher: ""I'm looking forward to the new car," Michael said. "We know that it is faster than the old car and when you're a driver, you never can get enough speed"
You're also thinking in terms of the archaic speed limits of North America.. :mad: What about Europe where higher hwy limits are allowed? Also some of us (me) WILL be lapping/auto-x'ing this car.. and for us there can NEVER be enough performance(hp/handling/braking) :)

Originally posted by ReX-8
Unless you participate in the SCAA rally, drive like Solberg or Makinen, or wants to give your money to the police/government, otherwise how often you are going to use all that 300HP? I think the 227 in the standard WRX and the 250 in the RX-8 is way enough for daily driving. Also Subaru and Mitsubishi are competing fiercely in the AWD market, but the RX-8 is one of a kind out there.
Although the STi does look great (flying through the air and drifting on the dirt), the big hood scoop and big rear wing, but the RX-8 comes with the sexy rear doors, nicely designed interior and details.

With this kind of logic, I'm assuming you're going for the 210 hp engine in automatic. "Unless you participate in Formula 1 events, drive like Schuey or Montoya, or want to give your money to the police/government, otherwise how often are you going to use all that 250HP?".

Seriously now, who wouldn't want the RX-8 to have gobs of power and weigh like a Miata (3000lbs isn't exactly light to me). Those of you who think the car is "perfect" are just fooling yourselves.
Lighter, faster, better, cheaper. I want it all, and I want it now.
But we can't have it all, so we have to compromise.
In the end, it's all about compromises.....

I for one think both cars are great. The STi has outstanding performance and is one of Subaru's elite vehicles. The RX-8 is downright stunning and has the unique history and appeal of the rotary engine.

Personally I cant compare them. For one, the STi is AWD and is turbocharged. Why even compare that to a NA rotary? I dunno, to me it's like apples and oranges, but that's just me.

Anyhow, I'm bias towards the 8 simply because I love the RXs.

Besides the STi (WRX) look just dont jive with me. It's shape can't take an image of a Datsun 510 out of my head. Plus the 8 is in a movie.. beat that! Hahaha..

Originally posted by runny_yolk


No offense, but not everyone who posts or reads this forum is sure that they want an RX-8. Be happy that you know what you want, not all of us are so decisive! ^_^;;
Besides, there ARE similar posts in the WRX forums for people asking why they shouldn't buy an RX-8 instead of the STi.

No offense taken. I just don't understand the point of posting something like this in such an inflammatory manner. Now, if someone came here and said something like "What do you guys feel are the advantages of the RX-8 over the STi, and why?" Not "I like the STi better than the RX-8, how come you guys don't all feel the same way as me" which is basically how it was posted. And if I find out people here are posting stuff like that over there, I'd like to discuss their net manners with them.

ok you cant compare a 1.3 liter rotary aginst a boxer 4 turbo its in a diffrent class, the rx8 is a rwd not awd and its making a shitload of hp for a n/a 1.3. So there other terms you have to put in, The rx8 is a better car than the sti, why u ask with very little displacment its making 250 hp 50 hp less than a turbo boxer 4 with a 2.5 liter. Now heres an example give the sti a a 1.3 and lets see whats faster, The sti with 1.3 or a 1.3 roatry n/a.

ps i rest my case thankyou and have a good day

Rear-wheel drive cars are like having good sex. I've had two
quattros but have not been in a sti, but here is the differences:
Rear Drive *** AWD
1.)accelerating thru' a corner:
get into a groove *** impressed with adhesion
2.)during rain/snow on curve:
car rotates around you-control *** faster but some danger*
3.)doing the twisty's:
using weight-shifting *** using lots of torque
4.)power drifts:
subtle shifts of rear outward *** more mechanical


*and thus why insurance rates high due to no. of accidents

These aesthetics are simple and available every day.
Call me a "hedonist" but I rank "fun-to-drive" as a very high priority during 4 seasons not just winter and rains.
Safe sex is not for me.

As has been said before, I dont want a pig ugly econobox thats been professionaly kevin'd.

I dont want AWD, I dont want turbo lag either.

I want a purpose built sports car, not some souped up shopping trolley.

I'll admit that 9 out of 10 times (or even 10/10) the STi will probably complete the same jouney/track quicker than the RX8. So what? Personaly I'll have more fun in the 8. Its why I like the Lotus elise so much, fun and fast, but not at licence loosing speeds.

For what it's worth, this week the UK's Autocar magazine ran a "best fun car under £15,000" feature. Of the 20 cars featured, the MX-5 won comfortably. My Civic Type R came second.

Now, more interestingly, they took along a full Prodrive spec WRX STi as comparison. This is the UK special 300bhp edition. It only managed to lap the circuit less than a second faster than the Civic. Looking at the figures, the Civic and the RX-8 are very closely comparable in straight line speed, yet eth RX-8 has higher grip, infinitely better steering and a better chassis. i can only assume it would have been very close to the STi's lap time.

As has been mentioned before, the STi is a bloated hog of a car compared to both the RX-8 and the CTR. It was also interesting to read that very few people took the STi out on the track and those that did didn't take it out twice. Not because it was slow, but because it was dull! They actually rated it lower than the top five (MX-5, CTR, Clio Cup, 106 GTi and Saxo VTS for fun).

Also remember that a PPP STi costs nearly £7000 more than the RX-8 over here. Evo magazine have also rated the RX-8 as fast as the Golf R32, Alfa GTA and Focus RS, and far better in it's chassis.

Power isn't everything.

I think the STI cheated with the 2.5L engine. Someone correct me if im wrong, but doesnt the WRC prohibit engines bigger than 2.5L? If so, Subaru has made a mad choice to steal the market away from Mitsu.

Originally posted by Tron
I think the STI cheated with the 2.5L engine. Someone correct me if im wrong, but doesnt the WRC prohibit engines bigger than 2.5L? If so, Subaru has made a mad choice to steal the market away from Mitsu.

(1) Subaru doesn't rally cars in the USA (where the 2.5L exists)

(2) Subaru can manufacture any car it wishes. It's in business to sell cars.

(3) The WRX STi is not a rally car. It's loosely based on one. Very loosely. Same goes for the Evolution (hell, it's not even participatingin WRC).


:D

In Europe and Japan the STi is still a 2.0.

The 2.5 was used to allow the 300bhp yet meet emissions regs

Originally posted by rotarypower

i found the torque of the rx-8 to be way too lacking for the pricing


rotorypower: pls read this if you haven't already:

http://rx8forum.com/showthread.php?threadid=1143&highlight=buger

Originally posted by nostatic


(3) The WRX STi is not a rally car. It's loosely based on one. Very loosely. Same goes for the Evolution (hell, it's not even participatingin WRC).


:D

Participating: Yes.
In the running for the Championship: No.

http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/News/2003/005/2003_R_NZ_12watchfinal.htm

go pick up the latest C&D........ RX8 Ownz!

which C&D is this.. not the Stang/G35/RX-8 comparo is it?

Latest C&D is comparison of the S4/M3/C32 and RS6/M5/et al...

Is there something about the 8 in that issue?

Sorry, but I think you are incredibly wrong Trac. For one thing, take the Sti's turbos off, and what you have is econo-4-banger. Take the RX-8 turbos off (rhetorically) and what you get is a 4 seat S2000 with better numbers. Numbers, being what you are looking for. Put turbos on an RX-8, what do you get?

(dramatic pause). You get a next generation RX-7. (for purposes of comparison)

I'm not sure about this next point, but I think even the last generation RX-7's could stick it to a new Sti, at least in the numbers. In any case it certainly argues against your conception of RX-8 not being more for "pure performance junkies" since a turbo RX-8 would quite simply blow an sTi out of the water in numbers.

Also, I recommend you not take whats marketed to you as any sort of limitation on aspirations. What I mean refers to your use of the phrase "geared to". For one thing, you would be callously discarding the entire point of The Mod. For another thing, you are wrong, albeit understandably. If you think performance is a function solely of how LARGE certain numbers are, then you are entirely missing the point. It's like saying that Mercedes SL55 or even a BMW is more for performance than a ~180hp/127lbft Lotus car. Sure this example is loaded and biased but the point is, a newer Lotus at the track will spank the former cars if they are stock. I'm saying that RX-8 is a lot closer to pure performance... ~200lbs lighter, 3k more rpms, lower center of gravity, smaller polar moment of inertia relative to weight, blah blah blah. It's got better characteristics for all the stuff that isn't easily changed.

Sure, if you argue that modding an RX-8 past sTi numbers will push up costs until it is way more expensive, but then why are you using an sTi? the Evo pushes basically 1 lateral G and has equal other numbers to an sTi. Then again, if the sTi comes to the states at around 35k, and you put 5k worth of a turbo on an RX-8, maybe this discussion would be moot. It is certainly make


Originally posted by Trac


whoa there tiger.....no need to get defensive.

i'm here comparing the two cars....and when you compare the performance numbers of both, the STi blows the RX-8 out of the water in EVERY category.

i didn't say the RX-8 has no performance appeal....i said that it's not so much geared at the PURE performance junkies. It's geared more towards the people who want style/luxury with their sporty capabilities. The STi competes with the EVO, which competes with the S4.

the RX-8 competes more with the S2000 & 350Z. they're sporty car's....just not on the same level as the others i mentioned before it.

Originally posted by ProtoConVert
Sorry, but I think you are incredibly wrong Trac. For one thing, take the Sti's turbos off, and what you have is econo-4-banger.


No offense, dude, but this statement is just so far off the mark. You aren't really going to make me type out a list of significant enhancements of the STi over the plain vanilla WRX, are you? It's a LOT more than just a turbo... :cool:

It's a LOT more than just a turbo...

Yup, it's an extra diff that makes it understeer even more, and some dampers that give it a far worse on-road ride than a standard WRX, which also has a turbo BTW;)

It's generally agreed in the UK press that the stock WRX is far better in a real world situation. The STi is a track car, yet in that situation its terminal ability to understeer and lack of balance spoil the party! An Evo 8 is far superior (and equally ill suited to road use).

Styling:
RX8 > Evo8 > Sti

Performance:
Evo8 (JDM) > Sti > Evo (USA) > RX8

Convinience:
Evo8 > Sti > RX8

Overall Value:
Sti > Evo8 > RX8

Luxury:
Not exactly luxury cars here.
RX8 > Sti > Evo8

All weather driving:
Sti~Evo8 > RX8

So there you have it. Get the WRC cars for raw performance, get the RX8 for styling and cruising. If you want a raw sport car with 4 doors, you really can't top the Sti or Evo8. RX8 is a hybrid, not really meant to be an all out performer against the WRC cars,

hey guys
thanks for all the posts. i'm just having trouble over deciding on which. :dunno: sorry if i OFFENDED anyone here. that's just how i saw the two cars. (you guys are way too sensitive at times:D ) that post on the rx-8 engine thing with buger and wakeech was way too technical for me but i'm sure it proved that iit was a really great engine:) . yes the rx-8 is VERY appealing to me right now. wish i could have both the sti and rx8. :p thanks again for all your opinions and to those who replied thoughtfully and considerately.
- me

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Styling:
RX8 > Evo8 > Sti

Performance:
Evo8 (JDM) > Sti > Evo (USA) > RX8

Convinience:
Evo8 > Sti > RX8

Overall Value:
Sti > Evo8 > RX8

Luxury:
Not exactly luxury cars here.
RX8 > Sti > Evo8

All weather driving:
Sti~Evo8 > RX8

So there you have it. Get the WRC cars for raw performance, get the RX8 for styling and cruising. If you want a raw sport car with 4 doors, you really can't top the Sti or Evo8. RX8 is a hybrid, not really meant to be an all out performer against the WRC cars,
Keep in mind that some people (like me) prefer RWD over AWD any day of the week.

True fun comes from RWD anyway :D *waits for flames*

Originally posted by runny_yolk


(having had a pretty bad skid in my FF car, I'm terribly frightened of driving in the rain with an RWD).



Hmmm... if you've had a bad experience with an FF car, why would you be more frightened of FR which by it's very nature has argueably better weight distribution and IMHO somwhat less unpleasant characteristics in poor conditions than an FF.... Now I'll clarify that by saying that you should expect to have to drive carefully in either... and an FF is most likley to exhibit understeer which in inexperienced hands MAY be safer than oversteer, but it's just so unpleasant...

Obviously 4x4 is gonna be potentially safer, but there's still limits... I don't think any configuration is inherantly dangerous if driven correctly.... You didn't say where you lived, do you get much REALLY poor weather?

Originally posted by Hercules

Keep in mind that some people (like me) prefer RWD over AWD any day of the week.

True fun comes from RWD anyway :D *waits for flames*

You won't get flames from me!!! IMHO 4wd takes the FUN out of a sportscar (As does FWD, actually I think that FWD and Sportscar are mutually exclucive)...

I'll save the 4wd for dirt tracks and natural disasters thanks.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac

Overall Value:
Sti > Evo8 > RX8


Errrr,

Value is a function of application... If you are stuck in a desert, then is 1 gold ingot better value than gallon of water?

I would say that it could equally be argued that the RX8 is better "value" because it is a better all rounder... Quieter, more comfortable, with better road manners etc etc... both the Evo and the Sti might beat it on a drag strip, but which one would you take on a long trip?

Originally posted by rotarypower
that post on the rx-8 engine thing with buger and wakeech was way too technical for me but i'm sure it proved that iit was a really great engine:)

Well, it IS a great engine... but again, it depends what you like... I can't say if you'll like it or not because I don't know what cars you've driven and which you liked... if you're into VTEC Honda's and love the really willing, high revving nature of that then you'll LOVE the Rotary... but if you're a V8 guy then you may never understand the beauty of 9000RPM... and you'll hate the Rotary engine...

I can only suggest that you get a test drive as soon as they are in showrooms....

Originally posted by BlueAdept
I can only suggest that you get a test drive as soon as they are in showrooms.... yup... pretty much. i've only been driving a '97 dodge grand caravan, so i may get too excited by the performance of these two beasts (sti and rx8). but yeah it'll all just boil down to the test drives. (hope i make the right decision, but then again both cars are winners) thanks again guys

damn the interior/exterior of the rx8 makes me jizz:D

Originally posted by rotarypower

damn the interior/exterior of the rx8 makes me jizz:D

Quote from another thread:-

>>>> A. My girlfriend upon seeing a photo of the RX-8 said: 'Can you have sex with a car?'

rx-8.

sti is a very cool car being that it almost hit the supercar territory "13.1 on a quarter mile."

but i still choose the rx-8 because its unique. Its a class all on its own.

"All weather driving:
Sti~Evo8 > RX8"

And the myth continues...

2WD (rear or front) are often safer in snow/icy conditions. yes you get more traction with 4WD but that only gets you going.

The Extra mass (and this has all been tested and verified by magazines with Volvo, audi and mercede's cars) of the 4wd systems actualy increases stopping distanced (by a decent amount).

Most times, i'd rather struggle to start than struggle to stop.

I agree with Rob. And the beauty of RENESIS is the low
torque helps with the struggle to start. This is why 2nd gear recommended in 'winter driving tips'.

Regarding all weather ability-when asking a close friend how his Scooby coped in the snow:

"F***ing awful"

How about the rain Andrew:

"Slightly less awful"

And dry tarmac:

"It's Ok I suppose"

Hardly the stuff of legends...

AWD is only superior in a small number of situations. The Scoob has the same size and similar profile rubber to the RX-8. Grip is entirely defined by the tyres and suspension and has absolutely nothing to do with drive, unless you try and alter the throttle at the limit. In that situation, a Scoob has a natural tendency to understeer. In fact, having tried the classic shape, the bugeye and the new Scoob in WRX and STi form, I'd say that all of them understeer more at the limit (especially on track) than my FF Civic Type R. The grip levels of the STi were certainly no higher (despite larger rubber) and the front LSD was a complete liability, making the car difficult to place accurately unless you payed a great deal of attention to your throttle input.

As to the rally specials credibility as sports cars? They're not. Not in the classic sense. They are stupidly fast sports saloons but blighted by the same problem that my CTR has. The driving position. Believe me, if you haven't tried one, that an MX-5 or Elise is far more "sporting" than a WRC special. Remember that they are based on mundane econo-boxes and the driving position is defined by the needs of the general public. An RX-8 should certainly feel more sporting than either, performance advantages or not.

Another myth is that AWD helps improve the handling. It rarely does and the constantly shifting drive in the Scoob and Evo can make the cars less predictable than a good FF set-up, never mind a well balanced RWD. That's why Nissan set the Skyline up to beahve like a FF into a corner and RWD on the exit. The AWD in the rally specials are purely geared to grip with handling delicacy as a very distant afterthought.

I may be slightly RX biased, though I've not fully made my mind up, but I've always been disappointed by rally specials (bar the Lancia Delta Integrale).

I will say this for the Audi Quattro V6's with 4 winter tires
in a winter storm, the linearity allowed passing big transports
with terrific confidence. (a bit of shock and awe on the faces of the transport drivers).

You won't be passing any transport trucks with the RX-8
during a snowstorm, I suspect. And maybe during heavy
windy rains, although this board should be interesting reading.

Sometimes a light feel can be scary in good cross winds
and some black ice. Experience counts.

Originally posted by gord boyd
I will say this for the Audi Quattro V6's with 4 winter tires
in a winter storm, the linearity allowed passing big transports
with terrific confidence. (a bit of shock and awe on the faces of the transport drivers).

Here here. I own a 2002 A4 1.8T and live in British Columbia. The car performed superbly on many trips to the local ski hills. People have mentioned starting in the snow and stopping in the snow, but failed to discuss maneuvering (driving while already moving) in the snow. I believe that's where AWD really shines.

My '93 FD absolutely sucked in the snow. I always use snow/ice tires for my vehicles in winter, but the FD just couldn't hook up and stay hooked up. IMO it was just too light with too much power. Scary as hell.

Originally posted by Ali
Regarding all weather ability-when asking a close friend how his Scooby coped in the snow:

"F***ing awful"

How about the rain Andrew:

"Slightly less awful"

And dry tarmac:

"It's Ok I suppose"

Hardly the stuff of legends...


These are very strange quotes.? I used to drive a Chevy z71 truck. Now I can't vouge for snow but in wet weather the rear would be all over the place if not for being able to turn on the Auto 4-wheel drive. AWD helps in many more situations than just starting. For places that get lots of rain and snow the AWD would be a great benifit.

Originally posted by Ali
As to the rally specials credibility as sports cars? They're not. Not in the classic sense. They are stupidly fast sports saloons but blighted by the same problem that my CTR has. The driving position. Believe me, if you haven't tried one, that an MX-5 or Elise is far more "sporting" than a WRC special. Remember that they are based on mundane econo-boxes and the driving position is defined by the needs of the general public. An RX-8 should certainly feel more sporting than either, performance advantages or not.


Huh? I'm really not sure what's wrong with the STi or EVO's driving position. From the EVO's point of view there's a recaro seat with momo steering wheel. There's plenty of head room for a helmit and plenty of room for heal-n-toe'n. And I'm 6'2" 210 lbs. Ohhh and plenty of visibility. Can you clarify your opinion?

Having a Recaro and a Momo don't automatically make a sports car. It's the seating position that matters most to me. The extra feedback and the added composure of having a low slung and enveloping driving position.

The Evo and Scooby are scarily fast sports saloons, but a sports car is, in my mind, epitomised by the Elise/VX220. The closer you can get to that ideal, the closer a car is to a sports car. The Evo and Scoob have sit up and beg driving poistions, dictated by passenger space and practicality in their junior versions. It's the same reason I don't particularly love my Civ Type R. It's a hot hatch, not a sports car, yet the mechanically identical new ITR is a sports car. You sit nearly six inches lower, are more cosseted and gain far more feel through the car, yet all the hardware is identical.

As to my friends Scooby remarks, he's not alone. Another guy I know takes his wife's Renault Clio diesel when it snows after too many scary moments in his Impreza. It's a common story. If all the cars were on chains then that may be a different story but most people in teh UK use stock tyres as the snow rarely lasts for more than a few days, and in that situation the Scoob is inferior. I've tried a Scooby WRX in the pouring wet and I'd honestly say I'd rather take the Type R. It's far better balanced despite being FF.

What makes a sports car for me is more than performance numbers and handling, important though they are. A sports car has to turns heads!

I could never buy a scooby etc as in the end they are just plain ugly imho. Great cars in lots of ways but at the end of the day they look like family cars on steroids... no offence intended...

i hope you guys don't give me dirty looks if or when i get a wrx :( . still debating... WRX.... RX-8... WRX.... Rx-8.... *sigh* had that 6k difference in price between the cars been about 3k... i'd definitely choose rx-8. oh woe is me....:confused:

btw... why do the face icons after :confused: not show? for me at leasT?

I think some of you are being VERY bias. Lets, objectivly look at the cars. The STI is UGLY, the Rx-8 is styled very, very nice. While the WRX is a station wagon, the Rx-8 is a serious sportscar.

So there you have it, the Rx-8 OWNZZZZZZZZZZZ the STI.

Nice day..

OH YEA...The -8- CAN'T Lose!!!

Originally posted by rotarypower

btw... why do the face icons after :confused: not show? for me at leasT?

i was wondering the same thing *cough* tman? *cough*

Originally posted by maverikk


No, not really rain. It's ice and snow. A aquaintancy of me hit a bridge when spinning around "being passed by your own rear....". This is where theses electronic gadgets and helpers will go to work for you! I would never disable ABS, DSC or whatever in my car....

Perhaps you might want to consider that Subaru does NOT recommend the STi be driven on ice or snow! It has way too much power. And as for the torque, anyone want to buy my G500? It's got bags of torque!!! The RX-8 is about a refined sports car with a dash of practicality. And for those who question it's speed, I do F&C for SCCA and regularly see 2nd Gen RX-7's (ITS) beat everyone in the class, including BMW's. Even the older Gen I RX-7's in IT7 lead the pack. Miatas aren't known for their torque, but just go watch a SM racing with other classes and you won't be surprised to see the better drivers winning races..overall!:cheers:

Originally posted by TybeeRX-8
Perhaps you might want to consider that Subaru does NOT recommend the STi be driven on ice or snow! It has way too much power

I thought it was because it comes with summer tires. I think I'd rather drive a Subaru with winter tires than a rwd car in the winter.

Originally posted by nk_Rx8


I thought it was because it comes with summer tires. I think I'd rather drive a Subaru with winter tires than a rwd car in the winter.

As others have said, 4wd tends to help you go more than it helps you stop... so this can be bad!... a 2WD car will FEEL less competant than it really is, while a 4WD car may FEEL more competant than it really is... The result is that people feel less secure in a 2WD car, and so drive more safely. (IMHO).

Originally posted by nostatic


In Canada, there will be at least a $10,000 :eek: difference between the two cars (RX-8 cheaper), so they're not really in the same price category up here.

No so:

RX-8 GT: 39 800
WRX STi: 46 995

still a big difference though, but I think we get overall better deals than our cousins ;)

Oh and Canadian STi's are getting performance seats which, as I understand it, aren't offered as std in the US, Americans are getting "a much less restrictive design".


http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk2/images/sti_8.jpg

Originally posted by RX-pecting
Oh and Canadian STi's are getting performance seats which, as I understand it, aren't offered as std in the US, Americans are getting "a much less restrictive design".


http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk2/images/sti_8.jpg

yea cuz americans have big fat asses

Originally posted by BlueAdept
As others have said, 4wd tends to help you go more than it helps you stop... so this can be bad!... a 2WD car will FEEL less competant than it really is, while a 4WD car may FEEL more competant than it really is... The result is that people feel less secure in a 2WD car, and so drive more safely. (IMHO).

But then the reasons given for AWD being bad is because of uneducated drivers. A driver who is knowledgable will not think that AWD helps his braking distance and will be just as safe as someone driving a FWD. And he will have more traction to get going. I've been driving on snow for a long time now, so I am experienced enough to know that. So for me AWD is a advantage for me.

Also someone mentioned that AWD is heavier and extends your braking distance, and that is why AWD is not as safe. There are 2WD cars just as heavy as AWD cars. While your braking distance increases, weight is not necessariily a bad thing in the winter. It is like how thinner tires are better than really wide in the winter. It may actually help you get more traction by having the tires bite down harder through the snow. Very light cars will have more traction problems.

Originally posted by nk_Rx8


But then the reasons given for AWD being bad is because of uneducated drivers. A driver who is knowledgable will not think that AWD helps his braking distance and will be just as safe as someone driving a FWD. And he will have more traction to get going. I've been driving on snow for a long time now, so I am experienced enough to know that. So for me AWD is a advantage for me.

Also someone mentioned that AWD is heavier and extends your braking distance, and that is why AWD is not as safe. There are 2WD cars just as heavy as AWD cars. While your braking distance increases, weight is not necessariily a bad thing in the winter. It is like how thinner tires are better than really wide in the winter. It may actually help you get more traction by having the tires bite down harder through the snow. Very light cars will have more traction problems.

I agree... and would go so far as to say that in really poor conditions, no car is really safe or really unsafe... it's all a factor of the driver having respect for the capabilities of the vehicle and the conditions.

Many cars are very forgiving, even hard to loose control of in good conditions... but ice takes no prisoners and you can't expect to get things wrong and not pay for it!

Originally posted by nk_Rx8


I thought it was because it comes with summer tires. I think I'd rather drive a Subaru with winter tires than a rwd car in the winter.

That's true...they are utra high performance summer rubber. But, that's not the problem alone in snow and ice. The wheel size prohibits buying the kind of tire necessary for winter performance driving. The rally cars switch to narrow wheel and tire combinations to use knobbies and or studs depending on the road surfaces. The STi comes with 17x7.5" wheels (and the Evo with 17x8"). Without question, the STi will prove superior with the right tires in winter, but so is a Jeep. As others point out, stopping is more of an issue. Put Blizzaks on the RX-8 and with all the electronic devices, it won't present a problem with a good driver. I drove a 325e all though upstate NY in winter for 2 years, and with proper tires, never got stuck. And it was not all slow motoring either. Remember, there was a time when 4wd/fwd was a novelty and everyone got around with rwd...or maybe you're why too young to recall.

I drove an EVO last week and its rubbish. It rattled and spurted and coughed at idle. The first speed hump I drove over I thought my spine would go right through my butt.

But, boy does it go! And the grip is unbelievable. Is it a real car in the real world? NO. After an hour in the thing, I was tired. Could you use every day to work and back? NO.

Like the STI, it has this huge wing on the back. Sorry people, both look like Toyota Corollas with wings on the boot and holes in the bonnet.

As a performance machine, it's great, the motor makes it. The suspension adds to the fun. And that is all that these cars are. God help you if you carsh them....

I drove an EVO last week and its rubbish. It rattled and spurted and coughed at idle. The first speed hump I drove over I thought my spine would go right through my butt.

Why were you driving an Evo then? If you want a nice soft comfortable ride, try a Merc, Lexus, Jag etc.

The Evo and some extent the STi are all out performance and handling oriented at the expense of comfort and ride.

Point to Point there are no everyday cars that will beat them for sensible money, and on the right sort of roads they will bring a huge smile to your face.

Many people are prepared to live with this compromise, as the rewards can be so great.

Originally posted by ed hall
I drove an EVO last week and its rubbish. It rattled and spurted and coughed at idle. The first speed hump I drove over I thought my spine would go right through my butt.

But, boy does it go! And the grip is unbelievable. Is it a real car in the real world? NO. After an hour in the thing, I was tired. Could you use every day to work and back? NO.


It all depends on what you want from a car. I bought the EVO because of the huge grin on my face. I like the tight suspension and the raw all out performance. Who said you can't use it to and from work? I absolutely love going to and from work now. There's a couple of "S" turns that I can wizz through both ways that is heaven. I could go on and on but it really comes down to what you value in a car. The EVO is not for everyone just like the RX8 is not for everyone.

Originally posted by threeputtwash
Those of you who think the car is "perfect" are just fooling yourselves.
Speak for yourself. What is "perfect" for me may not be perfect for you.

BTW My son owns a 03 WRX and I see nothing I like about it....except the color.