I'm thinking about actualy purchasing one of the turbos for the 8. What do you guys think I should get the Speed For(ce) Racing one or the SSR Engineering kit or should I go with a Supercharger? Which would be better and realible?

I think the SFR one is the same one SSR was developing. Personally, I'm waiting on the Hymee S/C.

I'm thinking of going with the ATI procharger.

I think the SFR one is the same one SSR was developing. Personally, I'm waiting on the Hymee S/C.

It would be daft of you to get anything else, since he said he was going to GIVE you one :P

its waaaaay too early for anyone here to know anything firsthand, you cant even buy those kits yet.

there's million threads on turbo vs supercharger though

Well this is his thread, so it's not really a repost, but you're pretty damn close to the sePort picture Horse. ;)

Seriously, neither a supercharger is better than a turbo, or vice-versa. How much and what kind of powerband are you looking for?

On a car like this, in my opinion the supercharger is just more practical. The lag you experience from turbos is not appealing on a car with little to no low end power. But then again technology has really helped to eliminate turbo lag, so we'll see what happens. And about reliability, i don't remember who said it or in what thread but it was something along the lines of "the turbo/supercharger is as reliable as it's user" Just take care of your car and you shouldn't have any reliability problems.

is that speed force and ssr the same?! hey buy the way ...I think supercharger can keep the property of 8(smooth nice and easy).but turbo can give u more power.. need for speed?! go for turbo. dude.. after it installed in ur car.. (should u mod the exhaust too?) I don't think the stock exhast fix!! watever ... just keep update man..!! I need to know about ur ..super 8!! haha.. probably supercharge is more reliable than turbo.?! just a thought. I'm not really sure about how reliable ssr's turbo does!? but 13b(FD's) has many problems with it. actually is not the very problem with the design it's the problem with the driver. but nvm.. it's not really matter.. just keep ur mind on the car.. if there is some thing un-normal. try to find out the problem before it get worst. then every will just be fine..!!

Is that Speed Force and SSR the same?! Then every will just be fine!!

Are you okay dude? Like I said, none is greater than the other. It depends on your preference. Horse, you should take some time to learn more about forced induction. If you're not mechanically inclined, check out Corky Bell's books. If you are, you can get some literature from SAE, or a book on compressible flow.

BTW, I believe SSR is working in conjunction SFR.

Hmmz reliability = supercharger , turbos need a SHIT load of maintenance , if you don't keep up its screwed ..... thats why superchargers are in benz's and crap , you just drive it , no maintenance needed. Turbos need to be warmed down before they can be shut off with a turbo timer and other crap .... lotsa maintenance,

Power = turbo , I know people are saying it's going to smooth out the power with a supercharger ,but you can do alot more with a turbo than a supercharger , you can upgrade turbos and stuff with a turbo charger ,but superchargers you can only upgrade the sprockets, and at some point you can't go any faster. Besides that you get bored of a supercharger faster .... you hit the gas and it's there, on a turbo on the other hand , you have to wait for it to spool up ... that means you never get bored of it ...

put it this way

You drive a car that has amazing torque .... you feel it all the time ... you get jaded within time because you are so use to hitting the gas and the power is already there

Get a turbo on the other hand , you NEVER get bored of it , cause the power only comes in later, and not always like driving around town...

So it comes down to personal preferance .... they both make about the same amount of power yep ... better power = turbo because of its upgrades tho ..... the turbos are exhaust driven = more better flowing exhaust = more hp , also have room for intercoolers and BOV and all those other goodies.

Superchargers on the other hand (depending what type like screw or w/e) , most of them can't be upgraded that much , just sprockets , and thats about it.


Hope this explains it all .... coming from a youngin it probably means nothing to you ... but thats ok 8)
edit: crap nvm! your 1 year younger than me ! lol

Well I heard Turbo's are too new and they are still blowing up engines.

Wait awhile. I'm interested in the return of the Latham Axial Screw Turbo.

From what I read it sounds like its the best application for the RX8, not to mention weight and price should be alot cheaper too.

Speed Force Racing is developing the turbo system...

SSR is the advertising/promotion company that will eventually carry this product Speed Force Racing puts out....

Hmmz reliability = supercharger , turbos need a SHIT load of maintenance , if you don't keep up its screwed ..... thats why superchargers are in benz's and crap , you just drive it , no maintenance needed. Turbos need to be warmed down before they can be shut off with a turbo timer and other crap .... lotsa maintenance,

BS, BS, BS. What is providing the forced induction in Audi, VW, Porsche, Ford, some Mercedes models, etc. etc. etc.?????? Turbochargers. It's completely untrue and utter nonsense to suggest that just because it's a turbo it needs a huge amount of maintenance. Further, most or all production turbo systems are water cooled, and do not require cool down periods. The maintenance requirements are IDENTICAL.

When you're talking aftermarket kits, then it comes down to who designed the kit and how well designed it is. In the Miata world, the SC kits tend to require more maintenance only because of belt alignment and replacement issues. The turbo kits are bulletproof.

Regards,
Gordon

PS - I have a twin-turbo V6 Audi in my garage for the past 2.5 years. It goes for routine oil changes, that's all. Never had a single problem or issue with it.

BS, BS, BS. What is providing the forced induction in Audi, VW, Porsche, Ford, some Mercedes models, etc. etc. etc.?????? Turbochargers. It's completely untrue and utter nonsense to suggest that just because it's a turbo it needs a huge amount of maintenance. Further, most or all production turbo systems are water cooled, and do not require cool down periods. The maintenance requirements are IDENTICAL.

When you're talking aftermarket kits, then it comes down to who designed the kit and how well designed it is. In the Miata world, the SC kits tend to require more maintenance only because of belt alignment and replacement issues. The turbo kits are bulletproof.

Regards,
Gordon

PS - I have a twin-turbo V6 Audi in my garage for the past 2.5 years. It goes for routine oil changes, that's all. Never had a single problem or issue with it.turbo chargers put out alot more heat dude , in the long run , a turbo is gonna die before a supercharger. I've seen audi TT's and eclipse GST's turbo's go before a mercedes supercharger.


Also , say you've just been at a track the whole day, with a turbo , your definitely going to have to let it idle for a while , cause even the watercooled turbos are going to have to cool down , superchargers you don't really have to, but I'd reccomend it ... and I'm talking about maintnance and durability when you abuse the car atleast once a week racing or something. Yes there are poorly designed superchargers as there are poorly designed turbos, but bottom line a supercharger is gonna need less maintenance after a couple of track days.

But over all most turbo's need more maintenance , theres gotta be some exceptions like you said, but I personally think supercharger is easier to install and maintain.


heres a link for some facts ...
http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=19

Both need probably just as much maintenance as the other. Remember that webpage is supercharger biased. Both superchargers and turbochargers are compressors, therefore they both generate heat. Just because you have a turbocharger doesn't mean your car is engine is going to fail faster, nor does it mean it's going to last forever. Your conception of turbochargers reflects that of the 1980's. You of all people should know better than that titaniumgrey. :)

Also, superchargers and turbochargers perform the same function, so wouldn't they require similar maintenance? Just some food for thought.

Besides that you get bored of a supercharger faster .... you hit the gas and it's there, on a turbo on the other hand , you have to wait for it to spool up ... that means you never get bored of it ...

Y34h, m4n, 1 kn0w wh47 j00 4r3 74!k1ng 4b0u7!!!!1111!!!!11!?!?!?

I totally get bored with my microwave when I'm cooking my TV dinner, cause it's like INSTANT cooking. I much prefer my oven that takes time to warm up, then 15 FULL minutes to cook. That is AWESOME, D000D. Lag rules, like when you are playing COUNTERSTRIKE. I LOVE it when I am trying to shoot someone and they disappear and kill me. I never get bored with it because I never know when the lag will make me go slower! It's like, I used to play LAN games where there was no lag, but then I realized how bored I was with being good ALL the time. So, now I only play over a 56K modem!!!

Sorry. Your post garbled my mind, so I had to give you a hard time about it. But it was all in good fun. No hard feelings. ;)

Just seems like turbo's fail more than superchargers from what I've seen , but thats just my personal thought, but thats just maybe wrong. Can't find any proof so far though.


and robert lol, its pretty simple , you love a supercharged car for the testdrive and drive it for a week and your probably gonna get bored of it within a while cause the power is always there. The power is just there, you get jaded by it, turbo's your gonna have to wait for the spool so you an't gonna get jaded , you get it ?

Think of it this way, I didn't explain it this way but the guy at S n l tuning explained it to me and my friends, people usually think fast as when they hit the gas, so they are like oh man i'm faster , i'm faster, but what happens when you feel that "i'm faster" all the time ?

A supercharger is like having a hot girlfriend ALL the time, after a while, she an't hot anymore ....



With a turbo you don't feel it all the time , so its like the girl puts on make up and looks good , so you won't get bored of her s sometimes :D , hope I don't offend any girls here :rolleyes:


Understand ?

If this wasn't true about how torquey cars get boring after a while ... I wouldn't see so many people trading in corvettes for STI's , not saying the STI has no torque, but it just has that turbo feel.

guys thanks for the help, but I understand all the maintenance issues and power issues, and etc. My questions are more about the products and companies, ie) the realibility of SFR or SSR or ATI, not as much Turbo vs SC even though that is a question in it's own. When it comes down to it since mine is a everyday driver, and I have another track specific car, I'm not sure I'm willing to go with the SSR & SFR which aren't as popular as others such as Blitz and Greddy, where the name and product has been used and proven to be street realiabile before. I've designed a setup using those used by sunflower, ssr & SFR. I don't have the equipment to perform the extensive modifications needed for a turbo, but using the ATI universal kit could fab my own SC. So has anyone used ATI products are they realiable?

I’m not being an ass dot but have you ever owned a turbo charged car? I, along with many of the members on here own a 3 gen and have been involved in these forums (rx7club.com, Robinette, ect.) for years, we have seen plenty of your type. I’m sure you, with all of you glorious knowledge, know all about the amazing exhaust gas velocities of the rotary engine, you better back me up on this one rotary god. Knowing this, I don't understand why you still refuse to believe that a turbo is an excellent choice for forced induction on this engine. Maybe I should educate you.

HEAT..
A well planned and designed turbo system produces about the same charge temps as an equivalently sized s/c. Don’t believe me, do some research. The use of a v-mount, or front mount in the case of the 8, drastically reduces the amount of heat.

POWER..
Increasing power on a supercharger requires changing the main drive pulley. Changing the power on a turbo system requires pressing a button on your preset boost controller. I cruse around town at 8 to 10 psi, when the time is right, I press the button and v-wallah, 15 psi. It's that easy.

RELIABILITY..
You’re right with one part though, simplicity. Although, installing a s/c would require exactly the same amount of tuning and upgrading on the electrical side, you would have less piping and such though. This is why you buy a well-made turbo kit. If you can install a s/c and the required supporting upgrades (coils, computer, injectors, whatever else the kit would include), than you would have no problem installing a well built turbo kit. How do I know, I have done both several times.

LAG..
First off, don't listen to every jackass that wants to defend the 80's line of thought. Turbo is not synonymous with lag. Not in our world anyhow. Rotaries produce amazing exhaust velocities. This is why the Renesis can spool a T-78 with no problem. Throw that on a 4 banger and see what happens. I'll save you the time, not much. An appropriately sized turbo on an 8, such as an Apexi-Rx6, could easily get you somewhere around 400hp at the wheels, with proper tuning and supporting electronics (not yet available for the 8 but soon to come, I promise), and have almost no lag. Turbos have come along way. Plus, you think your supercharger is going to make full boost by 1500 rpms and somehow hold that same pressure all the way to the 8's redline. Maybe the technology has come as far as turbos have but in the last supercharged rotary I saw, that wasn't the case.

THE 3RD GEN. RX7
I think most of the people on here that trash turbos for reliability are speaking out of ignorance due to the "Rx7 Experience". The turbos on the Rx7 were sequential. That’s short for pain in the ass, over complicated, but beautifully designed, lagless turbos. I'll save you the explanation on how they work, you probably already know. The problem with them was in the control system, that was Mazda’s fault. Hundreds of vacuum hoses and lots of heat is a bad combination. The control systems would fail, primarily the hose leading to the primary wastegate. This failure would allow the turbos to boost uncontrollably, many motors were lost even though Mazda engineered in a fuel cut somewhere between 11 and 12 psi. A single turbo eliminates this problem by greatly simplifying the control system. I have run a single for almost 4 years, daily, and problem free.

FINALLY..
I don't want you to think that I hate s/c'ers as much as you hate turbos. I don't. Supercharges have their place in the automotive world. Turbos will never replace blowers on top fuel dragsters. As far drivability goes in a street driven rotary rocket, I feel the turbo will never be replaced. Its just better suited for this application. You may feel differently but I promise, there’s a reason all of us went with big singles back in the mid to late 90's, they work great.

Turbos will never replace blowers on top fuel dragsters.

uh, because of the rules, nothing else.

this whole versus thing is so old. it's down to compressor efficiency, advantages on the mechanical side with implementation, and the actual funtionality of the unit. when you guys stop trying to pretend to understand how the stuff works and learn what's going on you'll realize that they are actually exactly the same thing with slightly different approaches.

turbos are supers that use turbines instead of a belt, which is in many ways a slicker way to motivate the compressor (as the speed is dependant on throttle position and rpm, not just rpm alone... tons of advantages).

using a supercharger which isn't driven off of the exhaust can offer many advantages when it comes to real world engineering problems (:o o noes!! not teh reel wrld!!), like packaging and servicability.

broad statements like "superchargers last longer than turbochargers" makes about as much sense as "blue is a higher number than table". whose supercharger? whose turbocharger? (they're not all the same, y'know). under what conditions? what's first to give on either? what's the last thing to go on either? etc etc etc. turbos don't "give off more heat", 'cause exhaust manifolds are still there whether you have a supercharger or not; a more correct statment would be that higher horsepower motors give off much more heat than low horsepower motors.

relax, give it a rest, and realise that this is a really dumb discussion.

93silverFD I'm not sure what I did to burst your bubble. And Wakeech it may be a dumb discussion to you but I am interested in the opinions of the sompanies and products used by others out there so to me it is as important to any other. Back to 93silverFD When I siad, if you were directing yourself towards me, I meant the SC was better in my situation because I can't fab my own turbo. If tomorrow Trust released one for a good price I would be all over it, I love turbos. And I'm sure it's great for this car besides the fact that Mazda put in light weight rotors for the 8s and they can only take small amounts of boost I think I heard somewhere between 6 and 9 lbs, unlike those in the FDs it's not the fact it's a rotary as many claim it's the design of the particular engine that the 8 has which makes it a challenge but a worthy one. Oh yeah the Turbo v. SC battle can end, this was not the intention of this discussion. Who has used either of the company products I mentioned in the thread and how are they? ie) any SFR or SSR performance product or any ATI SC.

Light weight rotors have nothing to do with the amount of boost your motor can take. A semi popular modification done to these motors is milling the rotors down in an effort to reduce reciprocating mass, thats a positive. Compression on the other hand, is another story. The amount of boost this motor can take is only limited by what the motor can physically handle (plunty), and what the person (and software) tuning the vehicle is capable of. When all the electronics bs is finally worked out on this car there should be no reason we cant see 15psi on 93, 20 plus on C16. Especially when Cam or someone else figures out just how much to mill off those rotor faces to drop the compression a point. BTW, my post wasn't directed at you, rather the people on here constantly spouting shit they have no idea about.

To address your question about the kits available; I'm sure all of the kits being produced (none to my knowledge are ready) are of fair quality. The problem with super-charging or turbo-charging your vehicle lies in the tuning and installation. There is no way they can ship out the kit and have it come with a little black box that is perfectly tuned for their kit. Aftermarket turbo systems always require dyno time if you want good, safe ratios. Unless the kit produces very little boost. If I was you I would wait till SSR finished their turbo kit and buy that. It doesn’t produce a lot of power but it is capable of tons. Then when someone comes out with a decent programmable computer, buy it along with the supporting fuel upgrades and have the car tuned for 15 psi. Of course, for simplicities sake, I’m sure you would be fine cruising around town at 7 pounds.

Hey.. SSR said they will produce a system that achieves 100 whp and 95 additional tq and thats not a lot? :) Geez.. you have pretty high expectations... I would be happy with 50 whp/tq....

Im sure they are talking flywheel. Like 280-290 hp at the wheels, which is nothing to wink at by the way, but still not an 11 second car. I could be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but I thought their kit only pumped out between 6 and 7 psi. At those boost levels, theres no way you would be breaking the 300hp mark. 290 at the rear wheels is no joke though, with a good driver, im sure thats high 12's, low 13's.

FYI

Posted by another member who spoke to SFR.

I talked with Tim today from Speed Force and here is what he told me.

They have spent 6months on this turbo project and will have it ready for sale next month (Nov).
The ratings Tim has told me are 350hp Flywheel 300 rwhp at about 8000rpms
The ratings Torque are 300ftlb Flywheel and 250 ftlbs at the wheels, at about 4500rpms

Tim has told this will all be posted in the next few weeks. I hope this is all true

300hp at the wheels is nothing to scoff at, that’s for sure. I wonder what e.m.s. they are planning to use? That’s going to be one expensive kit if it gets you above 300 horses, out of the box. Major fuel modifications (open loop conversion? + pump and injectors), a programmable computer that can accept a pressures sensor input and somehow come up with a map using the Rx8's existing flow meters, a front mount, the turbo and supporting piping, plus a million other things. BTW, your car would still have to be tuned so its not like its plug and play (we would hope). Sounds like a very nice kit if those numbers hold true. If so, I’m sure its capable of much more with the correct tuning.

I think they were using a TSI pigyback controller. I'm too sure. I'll agree with you silver in saying the power you can get is about 300 hp, baseline. Not too bad. I wouldn't be surprised if someone turned up the boost. The power number would rise exponentially. :D

I talked about milling the rotor recess to obtain a lower static compression ratio, but there's not much left to machine, or so the story goes.

93silverFD, I heard from a rotary shop in Florida, that works with fishman, that they talked to Mazda that not this december but the next MS would release one, but lightwieght rotors are a problem because with high amounts of boost, which is what we all want, the rotors scratch and dent rather easy. Mazda didn't design the rotors with turbos in mind due to the other complications (such as our exhaust headers and intake never crossing), they wanted to cut wieght.

hahaha.. I love reading post like this...

Where is SFR located ? I saw SSR is in Arizona. If they are Arizona I wouldn't mind driving down there for a week vacation and having them do my install if I got the FI. 300 whp....NICE !!! That's like a 120 whp increase for most of us. How can you complain about that ?!?!

Simmer Down People
Simmer Down

A friend of mine has an opinion to share with you guys about the advantages of turbos:

First of all, there are so many different types of turbos out there and alot of the ones you are talking about are obsolete and used by amateurs who have little money but want to beef up their car. The "turbo lag" can be bad, but an experienced driver knows how to use this to his advantage. If there was no turbo lag on some cars, you'd have all that power instantly and spin the tires ALL day long and lose by a mile, however easing into it and getting a fairly good start, then opening the trottle will give you the power at the right time and you'll destroy somebody with the right setup. There's also hybrid turbos where turbo lag is very minimal, if the lag really bothers you. Perfecting the right turbo setup for your car is difficult and most people don't take the time to eliminate all the problems, they just take it for face value and say a supercharger is better because it's power on demand, which is good. And as for letting the car cool down, this is required for ANY car that has been run hard, like a day at the track. This is why turbo timers, better intercoolers, racing radiators, and silicone hoses were created. I'm not knocking superchargers because I know what they are capable of too, but I know for a fact that more can be pulled out of a turbocharger and maintenance is not as complicated or expensive as people think.

The differences between turbos and superchargers are subtle but important.

1. More power produced per pound of boost (intake pressure)
2. Variable power levels: a turbocharged engine can be set up to provide different power (boost) levels at the push of a button, while a supercharged engine requires changing pulleys and belts to change power levels. This turbocharger versatility can be quite handy in many instances.
3. No maintenance, adjustment or replacement of drive belts and pulleys is required for turbochargers, an aspect which frustrates some supercharger owners.
4. Turbos offer much higher overall power potential, with the ability to be modified easily for higher power levels in the future. Superchargers are more expensive to upgrade for more power, if upgrades exist at all.

A friend of mine has an opinion to share with you guys about the advantages of turbos:

First of all, there are so many different types of turbos out there and alot of the ones you are talking about are obsolete and used by amateurs who have little money but want to beef up their car. The "turbo lag" can be bad, but an experienced driver knows how to use this to his advantage. If there was no turbo lag on some cars, you'd have all that power instantly and spin the tires ALL day long and lose by a mile, however easing into it and getting a fairly good start, then opening the trottle will give you the power at the right time and you'll destroy somebody with the right setup. There's also hybrid turbos where turbo lag is very minimal, if the lag really bothers you. Perfecting the right turbo setup for your car is difficult and most people don't take the time to eliminate all the problems, they just take it for face value and say a supercharger is better because it's power on demand, which is good. And as for letting the car cool down, this is required for ANY car that has been run hard, like a day at the track. This is why turbo timers, better intercoolers, racing radiators, and silicone hoses were created. I'm not knocking superchargers because I know what they are capable of too, but I know for a fact that more can be pulled out of a turbocharger and maintenance is not as complicated or expensive as people think.

The differences between turbos and superchargers are subtle but important.

1. More power produced per pound of boost (intake pressure)
2. Variable power levels: a turbocharged engine can be set up to provide different power (boost) levels at the push of a button, while a supercharged engine requires changing pulleys and belts to change power levels. This turbocharger versatility can be quite handy in many instances.
3. No maintenance, adjustment or replacement of drive belts and pulleys is required for turbochargers, an aspect which frustrates some supercharger owners.
4. Turbos offer much higher overall power potential, with the ability to be modified easily for higher power levels in the future. Superchargers are more expensive to upgrade for more power, if upgrades exist at all.

This isn't exactly ground breaking news.

DOes anyone actually have a super charger or a turbo 8 yet>?

Probably, but they're too pussy to post anything.

Only the people that are building the prototypes. No kits have been made available to the public outside of the Japanese market.

That should change drastically by the end of this year though.. So say the companies.. but they have been knwon to miss deadlines and target dates so who knows.

Why does it seem that so many people with opinions regarding power-adding devices and the Renesis tend to take a cynical approach? I dealt with the same thing when I pondered nitrous oxide. There were far more people who told me that I would "wreck my engine" than there were those who offered any substantive opinions backed by published reports. My conversations involved not just supercharging versus turbocharging, but also nitrous. Imagine the same discussion we have here with the viability of nitrous thrown in the mix. I chose to consult a few people whose names we all know. For different reasons we all agreed that the Renesis should be amenable to increases in torque/horsepower output if the changes are done carefully. I can happily report that the handful of bolt-ons and a 55 h.p. shot of nitrous have worked well to propel me into the low 13 second 1/4 mile time very easily on stock wheels/tires. I am sure with slicks I could get into the high 12's. Next up-new fuel/spark maps and another 20 h.p. worth of nitrous. At least we now know that the Renesis and the RX-8 drivetrain can mechanically tolerate certain levels of power that were previously doubted. When any of you get an FI system, I would be happy to do a side-by-side driveability comparison and publish the findings in RX Tuner magazine.

Charles

Go for it Charles. I agree with you. It just takes time to figue this engine/ ecu out. Personnally I don't like FI. Richards approach is the only one I think that I could be interested in. I am following with interest the porting polishing ideas and your header design. Patience all. Mean while if you want POWER NOW talk to Charles !
Olddragger

he's already done it, as have other people, and it works pretty good (just like it does on every other engine).

well after watching the performance of the Speed Source RX-8's I have decided to purchase and build one for the SCCA, after the basic safety mods, I'll put on adjustable rear and front sway bar and coilovers. Then next I plan on fabbing up my own SC from ATI for the car. So we can do a side by side but by then I'm sure after the wieght loss and mods it want be very conclusive. But I will post results when complete. For the mean time I'm interested in doing a venom VCN setup on my 8 and I've skimmed thrrow charles DIY on the nitrous, does it list all the mods you preformed to make it operate right?

The cool thing about the Zex kit I used is that it was simple to install and safe at the 55 h.p. level. I would hate to hijack this thread, so p.m. me or post on the nitrous threads I have going. My previous comment a couple posts above was just a comment on the state of attitudes encountered around here sometimes. I find it humorous and/or annoying that those who desire more power are sometimes the biggest critics at the same time, regardless if the method discussed.

Charles

p.s. I, once again, accidentally shifted into second gear at about 70 or 80 mph and the engine is still running well after hitting over 10K rpm. The nitrous was on at the same time and I still have no problems. This engine can really handle some abuse!!

True.. but if they were a project in real life and missed as many dead lines as they had promised.. the project would have been axed a long time ago... It's also annoying... to mislead the public and get expectations high about their product, only to miss their target date over and over again....

There’s only one true way to enhance the power output of an internal combustion engine, Oxygen. Do what you will to get it in there, mechanically (turbo / sc), or chemically (Nitrous), it all increases power.

I'll tell you what though, after seeing inside a Renny over the weekend, I fear that the edge of that troublesome port is going to have to be ground down to safely make any real power, on all rews. It’s ok though; I can’t wait till someone goes all the way. 3mm seals, massive exhaust ports, Webber jets in the e-shaft (to keep the rotors cool), nice big oil cooler, a massive single, vitron coolant and oil seals, ect.

I'll keep dreaming.

Oxygen?! Are you aware of how volatile this diatomic element is by itself? :p

As stated by the brighter bulbs on this forum, it's not the strength of the engine, rather the electronics and the fuel system. I believe the internals are quite strong, regardless of what a few people have to say.

After my several attempts to wreck my engine, some purposeful and some out of sheer stupidity, I agree with S.M. Those massive exhaust ports will be planned for when I build my header. That project will start in about three weeks when I get money together.

Charles

I'll tell you what though, after seeing inside a Renny over the weekend, I fear that the edge of that troublesome port is going to have to be ground down to safely make any real power, on all rews. It’s ok though; I can’t wait till someone goes all the way. 3mm seals, massive exhaust ports, Webber jets in the e-shaft (to keep the rotors cool), nice big oil cooler, a massive single, vitron coolant and oil seals, ect.

I'll keep dreaming.

now you know how the rest of us felt at Racing Beat!! that intake port needs work!! not just edge in question but the whole port needs smoothing!! and how about those exhaust ports?- can you believe how much room is left on those to open them up?!! you can make them HUGE!! on the wait part- im probbly a year or 2 away but you'll see it from me eventually. :)

I know in my quest next spring for 350-400hp I will be dealing with it too.

now you know how the rest of us felt at Racing Beat!! that intake port needs work!! not just edge in question but the whole port needs smoothing!! and how about those exhaust ports?- can you believe how much room is left on those to open them up?!! you can make them HUGE!! on the wait part- im probbly a year or 2 away but you'll see it from me eventually.

I would love to know the reasoning behind those exaust ports, I'm no engineer but I see sure gains from porting the exhaust passages.

On the eventually part, the sooner the better. Hell, if someone were so inclined, I would love to build them a motor at parts cost just to see what we could get out of the ports. I guess like everyone else though, I'll have to wait till the first of the warranties expire.

Its gonna be a while..

it aint the warrenty, its the money. :) im going to get a second engine to play with so i dont have to worry about the warrenty on the first;)

it aint the warrenty, its the money. :) im going to get a second engine to play with so i dont have to worry about the warrenty on the first;)

must be nice to have options like that

quit spending your money on the look good stuf mike:) save up for the go faster stuff:) REALLY I JUST THOUGHT "man id really like to do this that and the other thing! but how do i get around the whole warrenty thing?" then i thought " it'd be nice to have a spare around in case i blow up the first" then i thought "hey if im going to get a 'spare' I might as well do the work on it and keep the original as is"

that way my car also stays running while i fuss with the porting etc.

Remember that emissions and smooth running were concerns addressed in the design of the intake and exhaust port configurations. Not just the lack of overlap, but the overall timing as well. I wouldn't doubt that Mazda also figured there would be several of us who would begin the mods and show the power levels Renesis is truly capable of producing.

Charles

Hey Zoom, do you think we would get a better deal on the engines if we ordered them together? I'm guessing your thinking about a used engine from Japan. Let me know because I may be in the market sometime before next summer.

I wouldn't think it would make much difference in price to order more than one, if that’s even possible. If your looking for a used REW, keep your eyes on EBay, I have not checked yet but I’m sure engine importers will start bringing them in as soon as they become available from over seas. Japanese people go through cars a lot faster than Americans, a two year old 8 with 40k is considered old and worn out. It shouldn't be long before some of those motors become available.