I know it's been a trend to turn off your DSC/TDC completely for the rumored extra horse power and better mileage. Whether this really works or not, the benefits definitely will not out weigh the potential consequences in dangerous situtations. Yesterday I was speeding on the famous Stunt Road in Calabasas canyons, CA, i had left the DSC alone (in the on position). Every turn I felt the computer either reducing power, or subtly and rapidly applying the brakes to the correct wheel, It was almost too easy. That's when the damn itch came.......I wanted more challenge. On a short straight away, where I had time to take my left hand off of the steering wheel, I reached down the held the DSC button for 7 sec. to turn it off completely. Since this occured on a straight away going slightly uphill, I had time to build up my speed, almost redling in 3rd gear. Literally within 5 seconds time I approached the next turn but it was too late already. It was a sudden down hill sharp right. The sudden transition in hill grade plus the sharp will throw any (i do mean ANY) unsuspecting car and driver to lose control (just like the Famous Cork Screw in Laguna Seca Speedway, for any of you that has driven on the actual track or has played it on Gran Turismo II and II). My baby 8 lost contact with the road and as I attempted to counter steering away from the edge of the canyon and my death, I headed back towards the mountain side only to slam directly head on into a telephone pole. It was an instant total loss. From my own judgement of the effectiveness of the DSC on RX-8s, had I left it on, I believe I could have avoided this nasty fate. I experienced directly and appreciates the safety designs of the RX-8, as I was able to walk away from this with nothing but a few bruises caused by the airbag deploying. For any of you who takes the DSC as a bother, and wastes 7 seconds turning it off everytime you get in your 8, I'm hoping my experience will demonstrate a reason not to take the DSC for granted. I will try to post some pictures of the before and after pictures of my 8 tomorrow.

wow- glad you're okay. What an awful way to learn the limits of the car :(

Glad you escaped without serious injury!

An unfortunate method to learn the real world effectiveness of the 8's saftey features.

Is your 8 dead? Better it than you.

To tell you the truth the DSC has made me freak out than help me out many times but I don't turn it off, supposively it reduces speed and brakes for you but I find that nerve wrecking. I just let go of the hard steering I am doing and braking and when the DSC stops doing it's thing my car gets more out of control. Glad you are OK.

ZGlide...glad to know you're alright. It could have been far worse....

I also know first hand, what the DSC/TDC does for stability, power distibution and braking. While driving, I have driven with it activated and deactivated, and it isn't difficult to feel the difference. I'll leave mine on...it's benefits outweigh any other setting.

Wow, you surely are taking this loss well. So sorry to read of your incident.

btw, I leave mine on all the time - only turned it off once to see what it's like - sensed no difference in accel. - it stays on.

Yow! Glad you're OK. I expect that some people on this board are about to unleash their sarcasm and ridicule at your fate for "not knowing how to control the car." Many will likely tell you that they would never have been so stupid because their driving skillz are awesome, but I think your story is a good cautionary tale about not taking unnecessary risks on the street.

So now for the big question: are you buying another 8?

T.

Dear Mr. (Ms.?) ZGlide:

This is your insurance company. Prior to reading your post above we were planning to cover the loss of your RX-8 due to your collision with a telephone pole. However, now that you have admitted that you were speeding and had deliberately and completely disabled the traction control and stability control features of your automobile, we are reconsidering our coverage of this accident.

You will be notified of our decision shortly.

PS: As we're sure you've discovered, we do not consider GT III an adequate method of driver education.

First, I agree that the DSC is good, and I am sorry for your loss.
But, in the given scenario, I am pretty sure that DSC wouldn't have saved you. (Doing 90 into a downhill turn. Especially given your statement that it was too late by the time you got to the turn. DSC would not have been able to save you in this case.)

Second, turning off DSC doesn't really get you more power, it allows you to do things that the computer would normally shut down (by cutting power). So if you feel no difference with it off, you aren't driving overly agressively.

I like to turn mine off to drift the rear end of the car (In roads that I know very well). These roads are generally safe because they are generally lower speed turns that I can take in 2nd and get the rear end sideways in a very controlled maner. It is a very fun car to kick the rear end out with, very predictable.

Am I the only one here to be pissed off to know someone is dumb enough to drive like this on public roads? So you were over 90mph going into a corner on a small two lane canyon road?

It is not that you were just going fast. It was you did not even know how to judge the corner and go fast.

Save it for the track. The DSC is only building a false sense of security. It would have not helped you. I do not even have it.

I've never had a car before with DSC/TCS. This is my first one. I've driven cars with arguably spookier handling than the RX8...I'm still alive and well, and haven't totalled any cars. In your case, ok it saved you. If you say so....


I think your heavy reliance on the DSC caused you push the limits too high, and thus your accident.

This is same thing that happened when ABS came out...everybody thought they could stop on a dime now that they have the ABS....then they start crashing all over the place......

All electronic helpers are just that...helpers. They can't break the laws of physics, and they don't make a less than skilled driver better.

Sorry for your accident though, I'm glad you are ok.

Sorry about your loss, but I have to agree - DSC would NOT have helped you.

By your own telling of the tale, you were on or exceeding the limits of traction on nearly every turn before the incident (it was no accident). The DSC and TCS can help mask minor errors, but they're not magic and can not create traction from nothing. They do not override the laws of physics! If you overcook it into a corner big time, you're still leaving the road.

Regards,
Gordon

I learned in a nearly as dramatic way as you, that the DSC system is worth leaving on...for those unexpected moments. This is what happened to my wife and I last Christmas eve:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17291

glad to hear your okay

But, you said it would throw any unsuspecting driver. Why were your driving so fast if you dont know the road. Dumb move

and if you do know the road, then your not an unsuspecting driver, just a bad one.

sorry to sound harsh, but common sense will save more lives than dsc any day

Originally posted by RenoIV
Glad you escaped without serious injury!

An unfortunate method to learn the real world effectiveness of the 8's saftey features.

Is your 8 dead? Better it than you.

Hey Reno,

From your sig I see that you got a red 8 with a wing, was it you I saw on 95 the other day, I was test driving a titanium gray one? The following day I bought a Nordic Green 6-speed GT (didn't want the navigation system in my test-drive).

If so, that's a smoking car. If not, it's still a smoking car :)

Thank you all for all your sympathy. I am very fortunate to walk out of this terrible fate in the best wa possible. IMHO the RX-8 is very well designed to absorb impacts, I'm especially glad for the light weigh of the car, and the pint sized Renesis engine (had it been a V6, I think I would have been served the cylinder head as my last meal). Truss, thank you for the warning. I posted this tread merely to share the very positive, life saving aspects of the car that we all love. Was it a dumb move? I think not. I know there are alot more RX-8ers out there that also share the passion of driving a well designed sports car that we own in a spirited manner. For those of you who do not know, Stunt Rd. is famous (In the southern california region) for its challenging turns and high speed driving sports car enthusiasts. It is not uncommon to spot a pack of Ferraris or Porsches speeding up and down that canyon on a weekend. On the way up, I did have the DSC completely off, which in turn gave my the confidence of driving with it turned off moments before the accident. Despite of the accident, I'm glad everything happened the way it did, as I would not have given up the true joy of the RX-8, and could have ended up a lot worse some other time or some other place. My only regret (in exactly the same way some of you mentioned) was pushing it to the limits on a road I know little about, and having the DSC turned off precisely before the unforeseen grade changing turn.

I see your from RPV...is that Rancho Palos Verdes? Thats where I'm from and I am unfimilar with this race track you described.

-Rupes

Originally posted by ZGlide
My baby 8 lost contact with the road and as I attempted to counter steering away from the edge of the canyon and my death, I headed back towards the mountain side only to slam directly head on into a telephone pole.

Actually, DSC might have killed you.

From what I know, DSC would have basically created terminal understeer... and you would have simply gone straight off the edge.

can you explain to me what its like to be hit by an airbag that stuff looks so scary

Well.....I didn't even see the airbag deploy actually....i think it's too fast. The image I saw after the impact was that the airbag had deflated already. My nose was hurting a bit, and the inside of my lips were bleeding a little. I think that's better than slamming my face into the steering wheel.

Originally posted by HeelnToe
From what I know, DSC would have basically created terminal understeer... and you would have simply gone straight off the edge. [/B]

I was thinking this exact same thing. I recall a japanese video of a normal and ms rx-8 cornering to its maximum with DSC on and off.
... found it! - http://www.step-hen.com/rx8/files/DSC_demo.zip
afer watching the video i dont think i agree anymore...
besides you can't really compare wet conditions to dry.

Originally posted by ZGlide
My only regret (in exactly the same way some of you mentioned) was pushing it to the limits on a road I know little about, and having the DSC turned off precisely before the unforeseen grade changing turn.

From the Owners Manual, page 5-21:WARNING
DSC and Unsafe Driving:

The dynamic stability control (DSC)
cannot compensate for unsafe and
reckless driving excessive speed,
tailgating (following another vehicle
too closely), and hydroplaning
(reduced tire friction and road
contact because of water on the road
surface). You can still have an
accident. So don’t rely on the
dynamic stability control as a
substitute for safe driving.

You were simply driving waaay too fast for that corner. DSC would have made no difference - you were either going over the edge or into the wall. DSC can not magically create traction.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by ZGlide
Was it a dumb move? I think not. I know there are alot more RX-8ers out there that also share the passion of driving a well designed sports car that we own in a spirited manner.

That just scares me! It was obviously a dumb move or you would not be here describing how you just totaled your car.

I myself am a regular spirited back road driver but I fully well know I am not going to try and push my car and myself to its limits on a small public back roads. I have seen what can happen and would rather not be a statistic. You did not just push these limits. You went well over them.

California is blessed with more tracks than anywhere else I have been. It really is ok to use them.

after seeing a totaled 550 marinello i will never turn my dsc off. the guy who did it was a sesoned driver who had it out on the track for some hot laps. he did 7 or 8 just fine w/the traction control on, then decided to turn it off to feel the difference. within a few turns the car was backwards into a tire wall, everything pushed forward to the point that the car was easially totaled.

Hmmm, hold the DSC button in for "7 seconds" to turn it "completely" off? So, what is happening when I simply hit the button and the light above me says it's off? What's with the 7-second thing?

Arattle,
if you were on the ramp from 495 to 95N and I honked a couple of short bursts then that was me. Hope I didn't startle you. Didn't realize the 8 was dealer car until I went by.
Despite all the 8s in the Baltimore DC area, I rarely find one on the road with me. I always acknowledge fellow 8s.
Did you get your 8 yet?
Now that you have driven one you will be hooked. It's too late ... Give in and buy it. You won't be disappointed.
Pm me if I can answer any ?s you might have.

Doesn't matter what you did right or wrong. In the big picture you are O.K. You learned something and you are here to talk about it - and remember it next time........

When you are driving your new 8.

Glad you are OK.

Originally posted by RenoIV
Arattle,
if you were on the ramp from 495 to 95N and I honked a couple of short bursts then that was me. Hope I didn't startle you. Didn't realize the 8 was dealer car until I went by.
Despite all the 8s in the Baltimore DC area, I rarely find one on the road with me. I always acknowledge fellow 8s.
Did you get your 8 yet?
Now that you have driven one you will be hooked. It's too late ... Give in and buy it. You won't be disappointed.
Pm me if I can answer any ?s you might have.

Yep, that was me. I saw you are from Columbia, figured there's only so many 8s on the road. I was all set to get that titanium gray, and decided to sleep on it, then went to Gaithersburg the day after (fourth of July) and got a sweet deal on a Nordic Green GT 6-speed. Couldn't be happier. I actually live in Philly, but was visiting parents in MD, so the ride back home to PA was my best yet. The car is amazing, this was probably the best decision of my life! Thanks for honking, that made me feel special on the road, too :D

-arattle

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
From the Owners Manual, page 5-21:

You were simply driving waaay too fast for that corner. DSC would have made no difference - you were either going over the edge or into the wall. DSC can not magically create traction.

Regards,
Gordon

Yes, one thing I have been very careful to avoid is pushing the car to the limits with DSC on until I reach the point when physics out does DSC and I totally lose the car. On the streets if DSC engages I know I was pushing too hard. On the track or an empty parking lot, I'll turn off DSC and learn the true limits. If I spin out I've reached the limits, but the loss of control is in a safe place. The fact is there are two totally different limits, one with DSC on (and if you lose it here you will most likely be at a high rate of speed), and one with DSC off (if you lose it here, it will be at a much lower speed probally).

I read another string on this site where someone was able to go from between 15-16 mpg to 24 mpg by turning off the DSC. That's a huge savings on gas, over $600 per year for me, if true. I'm gonna try turning it off for daily driving to and from work. If I'm driving on a windy road I'll turn it on then.

Originally posted by rackontop I read another string on this site where someone was able to go from between 15-16 mpg to 24 mpg by turning off the DSC. That's a huge savings on gas, over $600 per year for me, if true. .....

That's absolute BS. But do try it as I did.

I've driven for many tankfulls with TCS/DSC both on and both off. I calculate my mpg every single fill-up. The difference in mpg is not noticeable for me.

rx8cited

Here's a link to that string, it's an interesting read:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10529&perpage=15&highlight=how%20to%20get%20better%20gas%20mileage&pagenumber=1

got pics ?

Originally posted by Aratinga
However, now that you have admitted that you were speeding and had deliberately and completely disabled the traction control and stability control features of your automobile, we are reconsidering our coverage of this accident.



From reports that I have read from insurance companies, an admission of turning off the DSC wouldn't even be necessary. Supposedly, the PCM freezes its memory when there is an airbag deployment. The police and the insurance companies are reading the PCM and using as evidence.

Gang: take your foot off ZGlide's throat - it sounds to me like he realizes he made a mistake, which is what generally leads to a learning eperience and the likelihood that it won't be repeated. Any of you ever made a mistake behind the wheel that could've gotten you or someone else killed? Uh-huh, thought so. Me too. Some drivers clearly shouldn't be on the road, but Z doesn't strike me as one.

Glad you're okay - and that the 8 protected you in what sounds like a horrific crash.

Originally posted by boothguy
Gang: take your foot off ZGlide's throat - it sounds to me like he realizes he made a mistake, which is what generally leads to a learning eperience and the likelihood that it won't be repeated.

Not quite - it sounds like he still thinks that he would have been fine flying around that corner, if only he'd left the DSC on. Fact is that he expects DSC to work miracles, but he still would have crashed on that corner at that speed. DSC would have changed the dynamics of the crash, but it still would have happened.

DSC was NOT a factor in his crash - excessive speed was the only problem. He doesn't seem to recognize that fact yet.

Regards,
Gordon

Yeah the way it's sounding is that every car that doesn't have DSC is an accident waiting to happen.....that's retarded.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
DSC was NOT a factor in his crash - excessive speed was the only problem.

I'm not so sure. Well yes, he was obviously being reckless. But...

If I'm picturing this correctly, he crashed on the *inside* of the corner. He actually made the corner. Well, almost, lol...

That is, he approached the corner very fast, went over the dip in the road causing a momentary loss of steering traction... in the following panic at realizing the car was NOT turning as expected and was heading for the cliff, he had the wheel turned too much when the front finally came down and got traction again, and thus he went into a slide (or even spin) and crashed into the mountain-side pole.

It sounds like he was going slow enough to make the corner, but what actually crashed him was losing control (sideways slide).

In that case, DSC *might* have prevented the loss of control, as it would have tried to keep him straight - despite his best efforts ;)

It also might have understeered him right off the cliff edge.

I would like to see some pictures.

Originally posted by HeelnToe


It sounds like he was going slow enough to make the corner, but what actually crashed him was losing control (sideways slide).

In that case, DSC *might* have prevented the loss of control, as it would have tried to keep him straight - despite his best efforts ;)

It also might have understeered him right off the cliff edge.

Redline in 3rd gear? He was going fast enough. That is around 90mph into a corner that is probably rated for 15-25mph.