NEWEST REVISION AND DISCLAIMER.
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I have discovered through some experimentation that the clear on the RX8's is a little softer than other cars. This greatly simplifies the procedure. This is the latest edit with the new simplified instructions.


DISCLAIMER!!! DISCLAIMER!!! DISCLAMER!!! DISCLAIMER!!!
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I'm not tooting my own horn here so don't take it that way. If you are at all nervous about taking sandpaper to your new 8 that is for a reason. The results shown here are the product of years of experience and thousands of hours behind a rotary buffer before ever attempting this on a car. These results are also the product of a few, uuuuuh, "learning experiences" on previously owned vehicles.

If you don't feel confident in your ability to use a high speed rotary buffer on your paint then play it safe and do not attempt.

If you don't have a few hundred dollars comfortably in reserve for any potential "mistakes" do not attempt.

In a moment's inattention on my hood I managed to go through the clearcoat on a sharp edge. This will cost me about $300 to repaint the whole hood and start over but I was prepared mentally and financially to PROPERLY fix any boo-boo's.
However, with a moderate amount of practice and intestinal fortitude, there is no reason a good do it yourselfer can't do this.

I recommmend starting in the middle of your trunklid as it is nice and flat and will be the cheapest part to repaint if you booger it up.

REVISION!! REVISION!! REVISION!! REVISION!! REVISION!!
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The list of supplies is long and distinguished. You will need the following at a minimum.
1. A good rotary buffer, I use a DeWalt with adjustable speeds. Milwaukee makes a good one too. Do not, under any circumstances, attempt to retrofit a buffing pad to an angle grinder. They spin way too fast.
2. Foam cutting pad. I prefer the burgundy Meguiars W-7000
3. A foam polishing pad, I prefer the yellow Meguiars W-8000
4. Wet sandpaper, 2500 grit. Nikken (Meguiars unigrit) has the best bite and lasts a long time. Get a sleeve of 25 sheets.
5. Spray bottle full of clean water.
6. About 1 Qt of Meguiars #83 Dual action cleaner/polish
7. About 1 Qt of 3M Perfect-it foam polishing pad glaze part #05996. This is the kind for dark cars, I have the best results with this on anything red or darker. There is a different glaze for light colors.
8. A rubber sanding block, get a thin flexible one not the rigid palm sized jobs.
9. About a week and a half to do a whole car (if you have a day job)


Trying to explain this without being there is like trying to explain the color orange to a blind person but I'll give it my best.

Mazda Maniac said the clear isn't thick enough to sand flat but I digress. Just don't push your luck. The clear on new cars is about 4 mils thick, the peel is about .5-1 mil deep so you have some room, but not much.

You need to start with a very clean car, at least the panel you are working. Soak the sandpaper in a bucket of water for at least an hour before you begin. Fold the paper in half along the long edge to make a square and wrap it around the block. Dip the block into a bucket of clean water, cross your fingers, say 3 hail mary's and get started.

Tuck in your nuts and start sanding, keeping the surface very wet and going in only one direction. You will start to feel the paper bite in after a few swipes, press down about as hard as you would press on a polishing cloth when taking a coat of wax off. Do this for a few seconds using even pressure on the block and scrape the water away from the area with your bare sanding block. Don't dig the paper in with the edge of the block, keep it flat. Look very closely at the mess you just made of your new paint job. You will notice that amid the scuffing there will be shiny parts. As you sand with the 2500, squeege off the water with a bare sanding block and look at the paint every few seconds. When you see the shiny parts of the paint become little dots that are completely surrounded by dull paint, you are getting close.

Continue working about a 1 sq foot area until all the shiny spots are gone. The paint is now as flat as you are going to get it. STOP NOW!! Scrape the water off again and let it dry. Look deep into the paint, you should only see scratches in the last direction you were sanding. resist the temptation to sand out any more wavy stuff. If there are no more shiny spots then STOP!!

If you have never used a rotary buffer before, you should acquaint yourself with it. Do this with the polishing (yellow)pad and the 3M glaze like on the hood or something. You'd be hard pressed to hurt the paint with this stuff, It's like a high speed wax job. This is solely to get a feel for how it will handle bacause it [the buffer] will want to wander and if you catch an edge somewhere it will kick hard! Around edges, always buff so that the pad rotates from the middle of the material out. Don't press down, let the buffer do the work. This is especially important with the #83.

Keep in mind that as the paint is applied it will pull away from edges and sharp corners making it thinner in these areas. Be careful (see disclaimer at top)!! Even I burned a spot and I know better.

When you feel like you've got it licked, put on the cutting pad and shake up the #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. If you have an adjustable buffer, set it to about 2000 rpm. Spray the cutting pad with your clean water spray bottle until it is lightly damp. Apply a decent amount of DACP to the sanded area and spread it around with the pad. Slowly work your way up to full speed, this will prevent the stuff from slinging everywhere. Keep the area moist with a spritz or two from your spray bottle and don't keep the buffer in one place for more than a second or two. Work it back and forth buffing ACROSS the sanding scratches. Treat it like it was a belt sander, that'll put things into perspective.

The DACP is a wonderful product which has a self depleting abrasive. That means that the grits get smaller and smaller as you work it in leaving the finish well polished and smooth. The product is somewhat oily like carnauba wax so don't confuse swirl marks with residual DACP. Even after working it in thoroughly it will look like there is dried wax on the paint.

Check your work by giving the panel a thorough wipe down with a CLEAN cloth to remove the DACP oilyness and give the area a good inspection. If there are no residual scratches proceed to the next step. If there are residual scratches in some spots, spray some water on the panel and work them out with the residue in the pad, again, buffing perpendicular to the scratches.

Switch to the polishing (yellow) pad and shake up the 3M really well. Repeat above keeping the surface wet with the 3M and a few spritzes of water. This will take you to a very high gloss and expose any remaining scratches you may not have seen before. You can work minor scratches out with the 3M but it will take a while. This is the safe way to go, always use the LEAST abrasive compound you can get away with.

If you have any larger scratches left you can work them out with the #83 and finish with the 3M. Just remember to wipe down the sheetmetal between compounds and use the appropriate pad. After all this work on one little area you will understand why good paint jobs cost thousands and thousands of dollars and why this will take you a week to finish

A few tips to consider.
1. The water in your sanding bucket should stay really clean, change it out often. Your standby paper should stay submerged. Keep about 5 sheets at a time ready to go. The Unigrit lasts a long time. I used 1 sheet for the hood, 1 for the roof, 1 total for both drivers side doors etc. etc.
2. Don't sand really fast, you will just be skimming across the water on the panel. Sanding slowly will give you faster results as it needs to bite into the paint.
3. The sanding water and compounds will end up everywhere and can be very difficult to clean up. As you gain some experience with this you may want to tape off gaps in body panels. Do this after sanding and before buffing as the tape won't adhere long after being soaked with sanding water.
4. The abrasives end up everywhere. At a minimum you should protect your headlight, tail light and corner lenses as they will scuff just like your paint. I'd also tape off the sunroof and the edges of the glass.
5. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ATTEMPT THIS ON YOUR PAINTED PLASTIC. THIS INCLUDES THE BUMPERS AND ANY APPEARANCE PACKAGE ITEMS I.E. SIDE SKIRTS AND AERO FLARES. The paint doesn't stick as well to the plastic. I learned this the hard way on my honda and it wasn't pretty. For this reason you should mask off this stuff when you are buffing near it with the #83, the 3M won't hurt it at all.
6. The best way to get swirl marks out of older paint is to attack it just with the 3M and polishing pad. If you have an older car, try it, you'll see!!

Good luck, it's quite a project!

Getting started!! You need to soak your paper for at least an hour and keep it in a bucket full of water as you are using it. This is the left front fender.

Now after the 2500....Notice all the shiny spots are gone and the surface is uniform. It is of the utmost importance to protect i.e. tape off your headlights, bumpers and any other plastic before you buff. Several layers of tape are necessary.

Me in action.

Buff to a high shine with the DACP then switch to the yellow pad and 3M for that "glassy" look and voila!

Here's a good before and after. The part on the left is the fender which has been sanded and buffed. The part on the right is the drivers side door which is untouched. The difference is amazing when done correctly.

damn !


Can I see a whole car pic ?

Thanks

I would post them if I had them but I'm not done with the whole car yet. I just took these pictures today. I'll post up when I'm finished which may or may not be this weekend. This is very hard work and I still have all 4 doors, rear quarters and roof left.

Nice results, luckily not all 8s have the orange peel; mine has none...:)

Are you not concerned that you might have just removed your layer of clear coat?

AMAZING! but i would never attempt such a job. But good work.

Cortc, you sure are lucky, that paint looks sick for being factory! Nice exhaust.

Rxeightr, with a 3 stage paint the color coat is not particularly shiny. When you completely remove the clearcoat either deliberately or accidentally, it is painfully obvious as there will be a very dull discolored spot that won't go away no matter how much you buff it. This is called a burn. As you can see from the photo, there is nothing but shiny stuff. There is a pretty good amount of room to work with in the factory clear. They are designed to provide years of life with enough room left over for moderate polishing and scratch protection/removal, you just have to know what you're doing.

Thanks baba. I learned this trick polishing bathroom sinks!! I used to work in a factory where we made cultured marble. This marble was clearcoated and my job was to remove defects from the clearcoat and buff the sinks up for the customers. This company was known for their quality and I had good teachers. I got very proficient over a few years and applied the exact same principals and products to automobiles. Years of sanding countertops gave me tons of experience so for me it's easy, just time consuming.

Wow - what an incredible job - great pics too

Amazing, you've got some guts! How much would you charge to do mine? :D

Seriously, are there shops that do this for people and any idea how much they would charge?

CortC I have 2 questions for you: What exhaust is that? And what product are you using on the black bumper when detailing your car? It looks great!

Originally posted by loco4rx8
Amazing, you've got some guts! How much would you charge to do mine? :D

Seriously, are there shops that do this for people and any idea how much they would charge?

I don't know that this is really a service that is offered. Many body shops offer warranties with their work and may be weary about possible side effects of removing some clearcoat.

It is still hotly debated as to whether or not this is safe. My car is Zaino'd regularly and garaged at home and at work so I'm not worried.

It's hard to venture a guess at a price. This is going to take me at least a week and a weekend to finish but i have a full time job. I would figure around $700 at a minimum. I would charge more since it would eat up at least 3 full days of my time to do it properly and return it clean. Go to www.autopia.org there may be a pro detailer in your area that can make you an offer.

Beautiful job on the car. Too bad I wouldn't have the b*lls to do mine. Too little gain for way too much downside risk!

It would be more than 700 bones...try at least 1,500.

I'm sure you are right. Like I said, it is hard for me to venture a guess cause I've never heard of this being done. Thanks on the compliments from those who gave them!

I just finished the whole drivers side at about 9:00 pm. Here's some good pics. I hate posting these because it really does the car no justice and it is hard to see the difference in far away shots.

Here's a close up of the fender. I forgot to set the camera to high res. so it isn't the greatest shot. I'll get some better ones, promise.

Yo Cort,

How's that MS exhaust? Any good? Did you change your intake?

I was just wondering if the MS exhaust is worth my $ and time to get my dealer to install.


Originally posted by cortc
Nice results, luckily not all 8s have the orange peel; mine has none...:)

That looks amazing.

Newtlicious, that is one sweet job! I have a black as well, and it is orange-peely as can be, but I love it anyway. I wish I had the balls to do your DIY, but I sure enjoyed looking at yours. The before and after pic says it all.

Well done, and thanks for the detailed write-up. Maybe someday....

Thanks Doc! I need to post a revision to the DIY because I learned a few shortcuts. The Clearcoat on these 8's is softer than my Honda was so I can get away with much less agressive techniques. Knowing what I know now, I could probably accomplish an entire car in a weekend....hint, hint.

Holy crap.........

taking sandpaper to your brand new RX8......

You sure got some big ones.

Great job. You should really send this printed DIY to mazda corporate;). There is no reason why we should need to worry about this stuff. Mazda should paint them better to begin with.

With that said.....I realize that most all factory paint jobs have some degree of orange peel. It actually pretty rare to see a totally flat layer of clear coat on a factory paint job. It is definately something that a good body shop strives for.....and wet sanding is how they get it. It also is great at removing dust particles from a newly painted panel.


BTW........this D.I.Y. should have a huge disclaimer at the top. I would be willing to assume very few people could do it to acheive the same results as you, the rest will ruin thier paint

There's quite a bit of clearcoat on the 8..

I attempted to wet sand out a deep scratch a while back..unfortunatelty I didnt tape off a wide enough area so now there is a mild, yet noticeable indentation under certain light conditions.. it's not normally noticeable, however. It still looks better than it did with the scratch.. and there is still some clear coat on it!.

remember, it's just a car!!

I would be EXTREMELY interested to see how this holds up over time. Can you get back to me in about 3 years, please? =)

Seriously though, what causes that effect? My current car (a lowly camry) has that on all lower surfaces below the side midpoint trim. It bugs the hell out of me.

If my entire car was covered with that, I'd definately warrenty it.

As for the posts about you removing too much clear coat, can you not simply apply more, but this time do it yourself so you are sure there are no problems like this? I know many places sell clear coat.

Many cars have extra layers of clearcoat along the rocker panels to help protect the paint from flying road debris. They lay it on thick without regard to it's apperance since it is more of a functional aspect of the paint. I left this area of my ride untouched for exactly that reason. I think if you are seeing it from the midpoint trim down then it is just a characteristic of your camry's paint.

As far as simply adding more clearcoat, I don't have the equipment or know how (sadly) to apply paint. To do it properly requires hundreds of dollars of air compressors, paint, catalyst, a paint gun etc, etc. I have never applied paint to a car either. I hate to say it but I just don't have the skills in that area yet. I only know what to do to it once it's on. I also don't think my apartment complex would take too kindly to me clearcoating my car in the garage.

Those are some dramatic results; almost optical quality. I'm sure every RX-8 owner would be envious.

There goes my theory about the orange-peel effect originating in the color layer. Looks like you nailed it by evening up the clearcoat. I guess I can go prove it to myself with some shaving cream and a squeegee but I've no reason to doubt you.

You mention a rotary buffer. What do you think about using an orbital buffer - would this be less likely to get me into trouble? I was thinking maybe skip the wetsanding altogether and just keep at it with an orbital buffer and a mild compound until it got smooth....?

Nubo,
Unfortunately, an orbital just doesn't have the gusto to remove sanding scratches. They are great for applying wax if you are in a hurry but aside from that, they would be all but ineffective in this application. Orbital buffers never travel in the same direction for more than .5 cm or so. This doesn't effectively carry the abrasive across the paint in a manner that is productive. The best way to remove sanding scratches is to buff perpendicular to them which is not possible with a "random" orbit.

As for skipping the sanding, the idea is good but it won't work. The only way to flatten the surface of the paint is to use a flat surface on it i.e. the sanding block. If you attempt to skip the sanding and go straight to the buffing you will end up with really shiny orange peel. Don't be too afraid of the sanding, it would take a pretty good effort to go throught all of the clearcoat with 2500 grit wet sandpaper. The most vulnerable areas are corners, edges and creases in the bodywork. Leave 'em alone, just sand up to it and be careful when you buff.

I burned that spot on my hood because I was using my old method with a much heavier abrasive (and I wasn't paying attention). The new revised method is a good bit safer as I have found out that the heavy abrasives aren't needed on this paint. This project isn't impossible, just have a little respect for what you are doing and pay attention!

amazing job. I wouldnt be afraid to wetsand with 2500 grit. Clear coat is a lot stronger than you would think.

I did notice a little orange peel on mine. Maybe ill do this next time i need a wax.

Thanks. Great write up :)

Looks great! Nice job!

Man, that just looks incredible. Makes me wish I had a new car that had decent paint to buff out - 2500 grit sandpaper isn't that hot for rust, flaking paint...:)

Speaking of, Nissan does one HELL of a paint job on their new cars. Keep an eye out for black Altimas - they're like a MIRROR. Dunno if they've figured out some tricks to eliminate orange peel, just got lucky, or they have some poor sap wet sanding cars on the production line.

Black is a helluva color to keep clean and looking good, but when it's clean and waxed up nice, there is NOTHING better looking.

Great work, and a great writeup!

Dale

Speaking of, Nissan does one HELL of a paint job on their new cars. Keep an eye out for black Altimas - they're like a MIRROR. Dunno if they've figured out some tricks to eliminate orange peel, just got lucky, or they have some poor sap wet sanding cars on the production line.

Black is a helluva color to keep clean and looking good, but when it's clean and waxed up nice, there is NOTHING better looking.

Great work, and a great writeup!

Dale

I agree about the black nissan's, I caught myself looking at a black 350Z roadster the other day and I was very impressed with the quality of the paint. My fiancee just bought a pikes peak white 350Z roadster and it is quite a nice finish!

if you have orange peel in your factory paint job then it is covered under warranty. there are some flaws in my paint and i informed my dealer. they told me to drop it off.

BEWARE, orange peel is not considered a defect in factory paint. The Dealer will probably have some schmuck run a buffer over it which will likely do more harm than good and put a bunch of swirls in your paint. I highly doubt there is some guy working at a stealership with the means, motive and opportunity to remove the orange peel from your paint. Short of a new paint job or what I have outlined in this DIY, there is no way to remove it. I would be very surprised if some yay-hoo at the dealer could (or even would) do this properly.

Beautiful job man. My VR car has some peel, but Im forced to deal with it as the car is a lease. Once its detailed, the metallic takes over and shifts my attention. ;) Unfortunately, the Zaino does not do a good job filling the mild swirls. However when the sun hits it, it pops quite nicely. I miss the finish I had on my Jetta...that was some durable clear.

Again, awesome job!

Just use some Z-5 to fill in the swirls. Of course, paying a professional detailer to actually remove the swirls will be better over the long run. Eventually the Z-5 will wear off and you will have swirls again.

mazda had been advertising their wet painting techniqu where they keep painting new layer while the other are still wet, i'd ventrue car with orangepeel had less time to dry betwen the coats as the ones whose orangepeel is less noticiable.

mazda had been advertising their wet painting techniqu where they keep painting new layer while the other are still wet, i'd ventrue car with orangepeel had less time to dry betwen the coats as the ones whose orangepeel is less noticiable.

I don't think so...it smooths it out actually...but only minor

nothing beats wet sanding...see my Ipod mini


btw I fixed all the pics for yah

I need to update this, I found some great products from Menzerna that are way better than the Meguiars products.

Hi... thanks for the DYI very useful!

I finished wet sanding my trunk with acceptable results. I assume wet sanding a curved panel would be more difficult. In an area such as the frame over the door... where one direction is straight (lengthwise along the car) and the other curved (from door to roof)... in which direction should I sand?

I need to update this, I found some great products from Menzerna that are way better than the Meguiars products.


how about a comparable list of meguiars vs menzerna..

Ok first off i'll let you guys in on a secret.
All factory paint jobs have a little peel because over the years you will buff and polish your car. Each time you polish and buff your car you are removing a layer of the clear coat.
Usually factory jobs are about 3 mills thick. Not much to work with.
By wetsanding and polishing you have removed half a mill off the clear coat.
Thats about 10 buff and polishing jobs.
I mean if you are looking for the mirror like finish I am all for it but if you want longevity then just let the buff and polish jobs do it over time that way your paint jobs lasts long.

If you want to properly do this and keep your clear coat lasting longer wetsanding comes first then 2 layers of premium clear coat added onto the stock clear.
Then wetsand because you have a few more layers of clear to work with and when finished with that polishing work you have about the same amount of clear left over on the car and that mirror like finish.

I did still see a few peely spots but you did a great job on the hood. Where are the people like you who know how to wetsand and polish properly??!!

I actually use a DynaB Dual action 1/32nd action with 1500-2000-2500-3000 then 3M rubbing - perfect it swirl mark remover - then Perfect it polish/ glaze.