Been reading the forums for a week or so now, and seen a lot of talk about various mods. Intakes, exaust, underdrive pullies, cat backs etc... (did I forget anything?)

All the talk is mostly about horespower and performance gains (I wouldn't mind having more of that).

What I would like to know though is why WOULDN'T I want to do some of these things to my 8? How does it effect maintainence, warranty, the life of various other parts, or how it drives?

I have a 6MT. I get to open it up about twice a day on the backroads of the SF Bay area, so lots of turns and good speed. But also lots of in town driving, to the store, pick up a movie, go out to dinner, picking up my son from school. Lastly, my girlfriend lives about an hour up the freeway, so once or twice a week, about 80 miles (one way) of freeway driving.

 

whenever you mod you sacrifice reliability for performance. that's just the name of the name. sometimes its alot of reliability, sometimes its just a little

 

depending on what kind of mods that you do, you may not have to sacrifice any reliabilty at all. Take the Borla Cat-Back. Installing that for minimal performance gains and just the throaty sound will not sacrifice any reliability at all.

 

some people have had problems with getting a new intake replaced. Other than the possiblity of getting a ticket, getting called a ricer, getting your car keyed in a parking lot maybe, getting a stiffer ride, or maybe somehow lose some warranty, i see no reason to not mod your car.

 

dont speak so quickly about exhausts not degrading reliability...

will the engine just up and explod on you? no..but thats not to say that the exhaust can burnout or rust long before the OEM unit would...just an example, but i hope you understand what im getting at. when i use the term reliability in this sense, im not talking necessarily about breaking down, but referring to issues arising that require your attention. stock cars = get in drive and forget (well, maybe not the rx-8 but thats another story :P ) modified cars require extra attention proportional to the amount of work you have done.

just remember, nothing is free. not even power

 

I would say especially power. Any kind of mod will run a risk of something going wrong, and not being covered by the original warranty. As an example, I put in a front sway abr and now it clunks a little when going over a speedbump and it's still cold. Havent gotten it fixed yet and the stock one didnt do it. ALso I burned out 2 coils a week and a half ago. Reason is not known yet, but it's not happened to anybody running a stock car as far as I know.

If your willing to live with possible setbacks, then go for it. If you arent, dont do anything.

 

"How does it effect maintainence, warranty, the life of various other parts, or how it drives?"

Maintanance? Depends on the part. Some CAI need to be cleaned etc and so on.

Warranty. Not sure about US but I guess its similar. Mazda have to prove that the modification was in some part responsible for the fault. A spoiler cant be blamed for the coils etc.

Part life? totaly dependant on what you fit. A turbo will probably shorten the engines life more than an air intake.

How it drives? depends what you fit. IMO unless it improves how the car drives (for you) whats the point in fitting it?

 

Ok, so that is exactly what I am wondering. An intake will shorten the engine life? Why? Out of all the mods, I thought that an intake sounded like one of the most benine mods.

So how, in theory, do these mods shorten the life of the engine? You'll have to excuse me, but when it comes to mods I am a total rookie.

 

Hey Genom, what kind of sway bar did you have in your car?

 

Actually, a lot of the talk is also about how some of the common mods do NOT provide any horsepower or performance gains! Intakes? More noise, very minor gains with some of them, certainly not all. Exhausts? same thing - more noise, slight gains (and for either of these, the gains are only over 6K rpm anyway).

You're wise to be cautious of all the hype about tuning mods - a lot of the hype is BS, and it can be tough to filter the truth from the BS.

Regards,
Gordon

 

Very True Gord, Very True

 

Would it be safe to say then that a combo of intake, exaust and underdrive pullies, while providing some gains when done all together, would be minimal, and perhaps adversley effect the life of my engine?

 

I think so. I would even put into question if there will be any kind of gain with all that. My exhaust gives me a sound I like more and is 20 pounds lighter than stock, but thats really it. No HP gains.

 

the real way to gain real horsepower is to increase the size of the explosion in the combustion phase. To do this you must put in more air (not just volume, but particles of air) and gas, which usually means turbo or some sort of forced induction alongside computer tuned injectors or larger injectors. As far as i know most air intakes for the RX8 do not provide significant increases in air flow, and i even hear about some of them drawing hot air from inside the engine compartment (this is real bad, will lower horsepower). Theres a couple reasons why exhausts for the RX8 don't significantly alter performance as well (rotarygod mentioned them on another thread).

i wouldn't mod this car unless i was completely serious about racing, and if i was it would no longer resemble a street RX8, you'd have to gut the interior install a roll cage and lighten all the quarterpanels, not to mention replacing a lot of the suspension system...notice i havent even gotten to the necessary engine modifications (there are plenty).

sorry to rant i just think all the little non major upgrades people put on their cars are a haphast way to pretend that their cars are really race cars. If you want a race car buy a race car (they arent all expensive unattainable cars). The RX-8 is beautiful the way it is.

 

Ah! I don't want a race car. I want an education... Not sure, but you sound a little frustrated by the question.

If you are, don't be. I completely agree that the car is wonderfull like it is. But understand that from the point of view from someone who doesn't know anything about these mods (and I am sure that I am not the only one) I might be tempted to get a new intake, exaust and pullies because of the marketing, and views being conveyed in other threads.

As an intelligent human being, I know that there is another side to be explored before spending thousands of dollars on mods.

I mean, when I read the threads about mods, or see an add about this mod or that all I get is all the benifits. You can plainly see how the unknowing could find this attractive, right? The appeal being that I can get 30-40 more horsepower by adding a few things.

So I started this thread because of the old saying "if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is..."

Also, maybe I should have mentioned that I am a compulsive personality. And when I started the thread, I wasn't looking for answers like, "just don't do it...", rather, and I quote you "some of them drawing hot air from inside the engine compartment (this is real bad, will lower horsepower). "

I want the actual reasons, I want to know why these things are bad. When I get into something, I really get into it and learn as much as I can.

So, educate me, and by proximity, everyone else on this board...

 

i can understand that, and i'm not pissed or anything. Just knowing my basic physics some of the 'cheaper' mods really can't do that much to increase power and im always a bit peeved seeing for example those civics with >$10k put in them that would lose a race to a stock V6 accord. The problem is some people are plunking down 5-6000 on lots of small mods that may increase performance overall by 1 or 2%, and frankly at the 5000 dollar level you can get a serious supercharger or turbocharger that can pay big dividends on overall performance anywhere from 15-40% increase in horsepower and torque simply because of physics, more air in the chamber=the ability to put more gas in the chamber...bigger boom more zoom zoom. the improved exhaust systems that you may find rely on decreasing exhaust backpressure into the combustion chamber that decrease performance (low oxygen air). However our cars do not have valves! I think this is part of the reason why exhaust systems for the RX8 dont do much, there just isnt much back presure or exhaust gas returning to the combustion chamber.

my suggestion to you is to wait for the factory supercharger/turbocharger system (not sure which it will be or whether it will have an intercooler) to come out sometime next year and make that your first mod along with an upgraded ECU that will give you the correct fuel mix to match the increased airflow to the engine chamber. ...btw you'll want an intercooler (cools the hot high pressure air coming out of the turbo, thus decreasing air pressure, allowing more air molecules into the engine intake)

hope some of this helps...im not too knowledgeable about how suspension works but i know there are ways to increase cornering performance by investing in suspension options (im a financial accountant not an engineer, my knowledge of physics is fairly good but not nearly complete )

 

just one quick extra, if its too good to be true most of the time it is, a fact of life. Everyone will try to screw you, so you just have to screw back...lol

 

Thanks for that. That's is what I am looking for. Cold hard facts about what various mods do, or don't do.

The more I know, the more I think that the only mods that I want are one: to always have the latest flash (which is not really a mod...) and suspension/wheels/tires.

Looking forward to getting the M flash. And would like to drop to car a little (not much though) over all and maybe make it a little stiffer.

Really, I f-ing love this car, my only wish is that it had more power at the bottom end, and now that as I am getting used to it, that it were a little stiffer in the corners. Though, in 2nd and 3rd gear cornering on the mountain out here is great. Even my g-friend, who isnt a car freak at all, loves this car and coments how it feels like we are on rails when cornering at 50-70mph. It's amazing how there is no indication whatsoever that the grip on the road is weakening.

So, what is this thing by CanZoomer? Can anyone explain that to me?

 

That is a piggyback ECU. You can easily install it yourself, and costs about $600. It gives you about 25whp from 5krpms up, but I don't know how much low-end it gives you.

 

Wheels/tires are actually tricky - if you just want looks, then go with 19s like so many seem to do. If you want better performance with degrading ride and responsiveness, then it's much harder - the critical part (aside from selecting good tires and avoiding crap like Nittos! ) is that you have to watch the unsprung weight - tires and wheels are not just unsprung weight (which is much more important than sprung weight), but they're rotating unsprung weight. It is extremely important to avoid adding weight to wheels and tires!! If you really want improved performance, buy the lightest 17" wheels (that will clear the front brakes) and tires that you can. If you don't want 17s, there are still choices in 18" wheels that are significantly lighter than the OEM 18" wheels. If you really want 19s but want to avoid degrading performance and ride - you'll have to pay very big bucks to get lightweight 19" wheels.

The Canzoomer mod referred to is a piggy-back Engine Control Unit (ECU) that intercepts the fuel and timing signals from the stock ECU (actually, Mazda calls it a PCM, powertrain control module) and modifies them to create more power from the stock engine - about 25 hp improvement, by running the fuel a bit leaner and the timing a bit more advanced. There is a whole forum section down in the Vendors section for Canzoomer, and much more detail can be found in that forum.

Regards,
Gordon