After two failed attempts at two dealers, I wrote Mazda an Email:

I own an RX-8 that was built before the newest PCM calibrations was available (Calibration 'L'). I've heard very good things from many other owners about the reflash, and I'd like to get it myself. I've visited two dealerships in my area, but both of them have either denied the flash existed or said it would not help in my situation. My car has expierenced poor gas mileage (11city, 13 highway) and seems to be buring more oil than it should. Can you help me out at all?

To which they replied:

In regards to your inquiry, the "Calibration L" you are referring to is to assist customers who had experienced problems with flooding on their engine. In no way does this process assist in improving the gas mileage or improving oil consumption.

If you are experiencing a problem with flooding in your engine, please contact your local Mazda dealership for diagnose. Once the vehicle has been diagnosed, they can contact Mazda's Technical Assistance if they need any further assistance.

However, the "Calibration L" is not meant to be used to improve the gas or oil consumption.

****

I think the "pretend I flooded it" line is all that's going to work for me. I even talked to a guy today at a dealer that was very straightforward with me mostly, and I said, "I want the L calibration" and he said he didn't know anything about it. I showed him the TSB, but he said it only addresses MIL's that occur after battery disconnect, as that's what the TSB says.

Wrong TSB...the hard-starting TSB is not dependent on MILs at all. I explained to my dealer that my wife stalled the car in the middle of our street and could not restart it. After some time and much smoke, I manged to deflood it using the de-choking procedure (amidst the laughter of my neighbor), and I'd like to get the PCM recalibrated to the latest software revision, which addresses this problem. I then gave the CSR the Bulletin number for reference. They reflashed me no problem, and also ordered the hotter plugs.

Bribe your service writer, that's what the Baller did......

Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.

At this point, you will probably get the flash.

For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.

Just a thought.

haha

Interesting, that there's two TSB's that call for L flash to be applied. The flooding TSB directly calls for it, and the MIL tsb says to check for its presence.

Originally posted by thered1996
Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.

At this point, you will probably get the flash.

For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.

Just a thought. Deliberately flood it? I think not. At least not for me. Suppose this is more honest than lying about flooding it though...

Originally posted by thered1996
Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.

At this point, you will probably get the flash.

For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.

Just a thought.

A dumb thought.

what's so dumb about it? mazda officially covers it under warranty, and I get a loaner. if they can't fix it, i get a new motor, not my fault.

haha.

Originally posted by thered1996
Pick a nice day when you can take a day (or part of a day) off from work. Start your 8, do not depress the accelerator, run for 15 seconds and then shut it off. Repeat in 10-15 minute intervals until flooding symptoms occur. Call Mazda and have it towed in.

At this point, you will probably get the flash.

For added drama, drive half a block before shutting it down. No one can prove you didn't mis-shift and accidentally stall it. Heck, maybe the best bet is to put it in 1st, set the parking brake and let out the clutch -- this would serve to both create a flooding condition AND test the parking brake.

Just a thought.

Probably need new plugs and a cat after that too.

that's probably the worst idea i have ever heard.

Why not flood the car? What happens to it if you flood it?
1. You have just injected a lot of raw fuel into the engine. This will "wash down" the oil on the rotor housings, causing excess wear.
2. The excess fuel will destroy the spark plugs, whether they are the new "hotter" ones or not. If not replaced, it will make the car more prone to flooding.
3. Some of the excess fuel will get into the oil, and dilute it, which can lead to excess engine wear.
4. If the flood is not very carefully cleared (and almost never is), the excess fuel will be blown into the cat. This is not a "good thing"! It will destroy the cat. if it happens too much. Nobody knows how much is too much, BTW.

Read the "hard starting" TSB that recommends the "L" flash for more insight.

Well, after a general phone call, two e-mails and two letters I finally got a call from Mazda.

I'm having a fuel consumption test/reading done. The dealership is keeping my car for the day. Mazda "authorized" a rental for me.

I go in on Wednesday, 3/31. Details to follow...

Since the L Flash doesn't fix fuel consumption, why do you even want it?

Originally posted by RevRaz
Since the L Flash doesn't fix fuel consumption, why do you even want it?

Because, in a circuitous way, it does.

Originally posted by MazdaManiac
Because, in a circuitous way, it does.


cir·cu·i·tous
Pronunciation: (")s&r-'kyü-&-t&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: perhaps from Medieval Latin circuitosus, from Latin circuitus
1 : having a circular or winding course <a circuitous route>
2 : not being forthright or direct in language or action
- cir·cu·i·tous·ly adverb
- cir·cu·i·tous·ness noun

Originally posted by RevRaz
Since the L Flash doesn't fix fuel consumption, why do you even want it?

I don't know if this was meant for me but I don't care what I get done, I just want to find out why I'm only getting 12-14 mpg; hence the fuel consumption test/reading. :cool:

I don't understand why there is such resistance from Mazda to just flash the PCM anyway if you already have the car in there for something else to be worked on. Why do we have to have a flooding situation that leaves us stranded somewhere before they will update it? To me that is like having virus scan software loaded on your PC and not having access to the latest pattern files? Yeah......it still works, but it is not working at its best.

I assume it is a matter of hooking a connector up and sending the update to the PCM. I can't imagine there is a bunch of labor involved in getting this accomplished.

Luckily, I have not had any flooding problems with my car, and I have not been careful at all (have backed it out of the garage and shut it off multiple times with no problems restarting it). Even though I've been lucky, I am going to insist they do this when I take my car in for the recalls.

I'm planning on teaching my wife to drive manual on this car (say prayers for me...and the car). I'm hoping they'll flash the PCM as a "preventive" measure, 'cause you know she's going to stall it....

AT

Originally posted by Atacdad
you know she's going to stall it....

That's not a problem at all - just make sure you warm up the engine for a few minutes before she drives it. Flooding only happens when a cold engine is stopped/stalled.

Regards,
Gordon

I've stalled a few times cold, just crank it back up right away, and you should be fine

I made my dealer do the flash, I just told the Mazda tech that if I was going to pay 30k for a car it should at least be kept up to date. He gave all these excuses that the car didn't need the flash. Finally I stared him straight in the eye nd said, "come on man, we both know how much friggin' oil this thing consumes, and if

sorry...
...I can reduce that by half, well that would be good." He looked at me and said "you know what, I'll order the plugs today, bring your car by tommorrow we'll do it." They even faked a "No Crank No Start to do it! That was cool.

What vin #s are affected? I've checked out the info on the Rosenthal Finish Line site ..... can't find the vins .... I pick my 8 up in a couple of days .... thanks

Mazda should take a few lessons from Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus and tell their valuable customers about changes that need to be made to improve the cars. My wife and I have owned three Mazdas and soon a fourth .... great cars but finding a good dealership with good service has unfortunately been a challenge.

I wouldn't have thought that dealers would be so reluctant to do the procedure. I took my auto in for the airbag recal, and simply asked that they do the flash. The service manager wasn't exactly sure what I meant, but nevertheless he wrote it down on the service order. I picked the car up, and the flash had be done. Why would they be so difficult?

Side note: I just got 22 mpg on 87 after the flash. Previous high was 21 before break-in, but the average has always been 18-19 with now 4500 miles on it. Normally I use 91 octane, but since they say it's ok to use 87 I did.
L flash or 87, who knows.

I don't know why they don't just issue a recall for the thing. If flooding can occur on all cars and the L flash fixes it, it seems worthy of a recall to me.

Funny - after all the threads on flooding and flashes - I decided to just called my dealer - told him that I am picking me car up this Wednesday (as I just signed the contract this morning) - and the service guy I spoke with said that with all RX-8 deliveries, they go through the car to ensure that a) all recalls have been done and b) that the car has the latest version of the flash...he said they would rather have the car go out at its 'very best' to ensure they don't see me often - except for regular maintenance. He confirmed that they do have the M version of the flash. He did however, warn me very, very carefully about the 'cold start' and quick shut off - he said "do that, and you'll be calling us for a tow for sure'....so I'll heed his warning, you can bet. He also said that the 'new plugs' for this issues should be availble to him soon and a notice would be going out.

Good to know I got lucky and found a dealer who cares about getting the best to their customer - the first time.

Originally posted by Baller
cir·cu·i·tous
Pronunciation: (")s&r-'kyü-&-t&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: perhaps from Medieval Latin circuitosus, from Latin circuitus
1 : having a circular or winding course <a circuitous route>
2 : not being forthright or direct in language or action
- cir·cu·i·tous·ly adverb
- cir·cu·i·tous·ness noun

Thank you, Baller. Saved me a trip to the dictionary.

Just picked my car up from the dealer...

Had the 2 recalls performed, and also asked for the latest ECU flash on the service form.

No charge for any of the work, and no excuses necessary for the reflash :)

well....,mine went in today for flooding that was NOT on purpose and they wouldnt do the flash because it didnt come up on the VIN as being needed.....so it all depends on the dealer you get.


i wouldnt do anything negative to my engine just to get the flash....i would lie to the dealer, but not purposely flood the engine.

Dealer did mine today.
(Maine)
Details to follow.

my dealer re-flashed my 8 today. IMO I feel better acceleration especially at the lower RPMs. 3rd gear seems to pull much harder even starting in the 4-4.5k range.

I do have a question though. The TSB says you you can check to see if you have the L Flash ( pumping break test) refers to manual 8 w/ VINs after 40132647. How do I check if I have an older VIN?


http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-007.htm

How do I check if I have an older VIN?



The last 5 numbers will be greater/lesser than yours.

Pinhy,

the newest M flash directly addresses the flooding issue. It controls(reduces) the amount of time fuel is injected during start up AFTER cold shut downs.

I spoke with a service manager today and he told me that he verified the above information on an 8 he was working on. He also said for me to stop by anytime to get the update when I wanted it. But he did say the only thing it does, over the L, is reduce the amount of fuel after cold shut downs.

And for his test he measured the milliseconds of fuel injection before and after the flash while he started the car something like 5 times in a minute without the flash. He didn't think it would start again as it was getting very slow. Next morning he reflashed it, and did the same thing, 10 times in a minute and it didn't miss a beat. And said the fuel injection time was cut about in half.

He did say he had a lot of trouble updated his computer system to take the newest release form mazda so this may be why some dealers don't have it available yet, but keep asking them. If Mazda didn't intend for us to have these updates, they wouldn't make them.

At least you did get the car back. And I bet you won't do anymore cold shutoffs :)

Good luck

Originally posted by Preacher
How do I check if I have an older VIN?



The last 5 numbers will be greater/lesser than yours.

no, my VIN is from an 8 that had a lower VIN #. Are there other ways to know if exactly what re-flash I got since the break pumping test won't work on my car?

How can you tell if you got the L or the M??

lower VIN=you need a reflash.
likley will be 'L'

They Flashed mine yesterday. THe part# on my invoice does not show the actual part# for the flash. It just states that a new pcm was loaded.

With the updated tsb it should be easier to get the car reflashed. below is copied from the finishline site mentioned above

RX-8 - ENGINE CRANKS NO START
BULLETIN NOTE
• This bulletin supersedes last issued 03/11/2004. The APPLICABLE MODEL(S) / VINS and REPAIR PROCEDURE
“A” - DECHOKE / ENGINE STARTING sections have been changed.
APPLICABLE MODEL(S) / VINS
RX-8
DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may experience difficulty starting (cranks no start). This occurs after driving the vehicle a short
distance without engine reaching normal operating temperature. Examples: starting a vehicle and moving it to
wash it, engine stall due to mis-application of clutch then restart.
A cranks, no start condition may be caused either by flooded spark plugs or lower than normal compression due
to fuel flooding.
NOTE: Before attempting to recalibrate the PCM, make sure to check the VIN & production date of the vehicle.
Vehicles produced on or after 3/12/04 and VIN is JM1FE17**40135537 or later, contain the “M”
calibration & do not require an updated calibration.
It is important to update the PCM to at least “M” calibration if the vehicle’s PCM currently contains an earlier version.
The “M” calibration contains software logic to prevent possible no start concerns. Because of this revision,
all vehicles with previous calibrations should be updated to at least the “M” calibration level. This includes vehicles
coming to the dealer for repairs unrelated to the no start concern, or normal scheduled maintenance.

Yup,I just printed that whole TSB in case my dealer hadn't "seen" it.

I just asked nicely and got the M.