I saw a woman in her late 50s driving around in a black VW Phaeton W12 today - I think these are really nice, what does everyone else think?
For about 100 grand you get a 420 HP 6.0L 12 cylinder engine, AWD, your choice of wood interiors (Chestnut, Myrtle, Walnut or Eucalyptus), massaging seats with A/C ventilation, keyless access etc....



http://caroconcept.free.fr/images/dossier/VW_phaeton_w12/vw_phaeton_04.jpg

http://www.bilrevyen.no/Nyheter/juni/images/VW_Phaeton_interior_0001B_medium_400.jpg

That would have been a nice $45k VW if they had skipped the W12 and stuck with a V8. Going to be very interesting to see the sales figures for a $100K VW -- that is beyond Audi's range and without the prestige label or the dealer organization.

Originally posted by RXhusker
That would have been a nice $45k VW if they had skipped the W12 and stuck with a V8. Going to be very interesting to see the sales figures for a $100K VW -- that is beyond Audi's range and without the prestige label or the dealer organization.

There is a V8 model that starts at around $65K. VW says the Phaeton is intended to boost brand image more than sales. They expect to sell around 4,000 in the US annualy, 15,000 globally. First year sales in Europe were far short of expectations however. It competes against the BMW 7-series, Merc S-class, and Lexus LS430, and VW markets it as an automobile for people who have attained success on their own terms, and doing things their own way. Phaeton ambassadors sell the car at dealerships. The first group of US buyers got trips to the famous plant in Dresden, Germany where the car is produced, known as the "transparent factory." It is so quiet the local opera company uses it to stage performances. Workers wear white lab coats instead of hard hats and goggles.
"The idea of being conventional always seemed so sad to me."
-VW promotional film

I got to play around in one at an auto show a little while ago.

The interior is amazing on this car. The legroom in the back is more than you will ever need. The side windows have built in sun/privacy shades. There are four zone climate controls (once for each passenger).

From the pictures, I thought the exterior was way to bland. In person it is much better. It still may be understated, but is quite handsome in the flesh.

I have never driven a full size luxury car, so I cannot comment on how it feels on the road. However, if I were going to drop that kind of cash on a car I would probably go with a BMW or a Merc or a Lexus. But I could be swayed by a test drive.

I hope the VW dealership "ambassadors" have a few other duties -- I think there will be a lot of staring out the window waiting for people in the market for a $100k car to come wandering into the VW dealership. Let's see: corporate CEO's, Sports stars, Hollywood celebs, etc. -- yeah VW is always top of mind for these types -- going to go right past the Merc, Bentley, Jag dealerships -- and then past the VW passats and Beetles to ask the "ambassador" about the new VW for the jet set -- should be fun to watch.

p.s. I did sit in one at the Detroit Auto show -- impressive quality -- but not a $100,000 vehicle IMHO

My $100,000 (if I had such a thing) would DEFINITELY NOT go for a VW -- no matter how nice it is. There are lots more cars I'd buy over a VW. What were they thinking?

yeah, no "people's car" should cost $100,000. it's ridiculous. i don't like it

you do have to admit though, it's an extrodinary car (especially the wooooooood triiiiim... *gargle*)... maybe the branding is wrong though. it probably would sell better with the Union rings on the front, wouldn't it (as a car superceding the A8)??

I heard it drives like a tank?????????

It's still a Volkswagen and beeing a V12 that just means it will break down twice as much as their 6 cylinders, 3 times more than their 4 cylinders and a 3/4 times more than their 8 cyliniders.

Drives like a tank? It IS a tank, isn't it?

car and driver did a test with 10 cars in this price range, the phaeton being one. i think it came in like 7th or 8th. i forgot who first was. it was either a benz or lexus.

1st- Lexus LS 430
2nd- Jaguar XJ8
3rd- BMW 5 Series
4th - Audi A8
5th - VW Phaeton
6th - Benz S430

The Phaeton got one of the worst reviews ive ever read in my life.

http://www.dev-elements.net/pepperbar.jpg

Originally posted by mental pimp
1st- Lexus LS 430
2nd- Jaguar XJ8
3rd- BMW 5 Series
4th - Audi A8
5th - VW Phaeton
6th - Benz S430

The Phaeton got one of the worst reviews ive ever read in my life.

That's BMW 7 series in 3rd place, not 5.

oh yeah, ooops

Originally posted by cumpressor4u2nv
http://www.dev-elements.net/pepperbar.jpg

LMAO, what are you doing?

eh, i wasnt too far off

Love the car and I have owned several VW's but if I have 100K to put into a car I ain't buying a VW--for me NSX, Viper (and I'd have 20K left to buy a beater), Benz or Maserati. To quote someone I know who has a stake in VW's future, "It takes an awefully small ego to buy a 100K Volkswagen" and most people who spend that kind of coin on a car have rather large egos.

One of my clients is the GM at the local VW dealership, so I got to put it to the ultimate Baller test.

This is some machine, you must be however open-minded about the large VW emblem and forget that it is a VW.
This car was the W-12 engine (rare) and under $100,000.
The paint was the best I had seen on a production car, the interior puts BMW's 760 to shame with it's wonderful fit and finish and easy to use controls.
The engine makes all the right sounds and propels this heavy machine with ease. The ride is on the soft side for my taste but I could live with it easy.

Summary: Perhaps the nicest ride on the planet, the ultimate in understated elegance. A car for the confident person that does not need a star or a propeller on the hood to impress. I really love this car.

Where is it made? i still cant get rid of VW's image for some reasons... the look is okay, the interior is cool, kind of like the VW's SUV...but still, it's a VW... i would go for Maserati instead, A8 would be a good choice too.

TANK

Originally posted by Baller
The paint was the best I had seen on a production car

That's exactly right, that's what really struck me when I saw it on the street. Incredibly thick looking glossy black paint job.

Originally posted by AltecLansing
Where is it made?

Dresden, Germany

Originally posted by mental pimp
TANK


You're way off man, 0-60 in 6 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.9. And this is a luxury full-size sedan, not sportscar.

A base Phaeton 4.2 W8 costs $65k - nicely equipped it is $73k.

A base Audi A8 L is $68k - nicely (similarly) equipped it is $73k.

One minor difference - the Audi is all aluminium and weighs 800lbs less than the all-steel 5200lb VW. You can deduce the difference in acceleration, handling and braking for yourself.

The Phaeton at $73k has less features and quality/materials/finish than a $69k LS430 Ultra Lux - and the gadgets in the LS will last 5-10 years. I doubt the technology in the Phaeton will last 5-10 months without breaking down (every review I've seen mentioned electronic gremlins in brand new cars).

In the FIRST TWO MONTHS on sale the figures for the Phaeton are half of what was expected - no waiting lists for this baby. The Phaeton was a disaster in Europe - it will be even worse in America. The W8 should cost $50k fully loaded or VW should spend a few billion on a network of luxury dealerships (like Lexus, Acura and Infiniti did) to be taken seriously. The W12 (not as smooth as a V12) is an even worse bargain.

Noah is the only person I've seen say anything nice about this car. It's turning out to be a disaster for VW, and I'll be shocked if it makes it past it's 2nd MY.

The phaeton was never going to be a success tho was it? Even VW knew that, and budjeted 1/4 of the cars otr costs for advertising...

But, take that car, restyle, supercharge the W12 and add a Bently badge....

Originally posted by pelucidor
One minor difference - the Audi is all aluminium and weighs 800lbs less than the all-steel 5200lb VW. You can deduce the difference in acceleration, handling and braking for yourself.

According the Car and Driver, the difference is 545 lb., and they have equal 0-60 times, 0.1 second difference in 1/4 mile times, and the VW outperforms the Audi on the skidpad.

If we compare just the motorics the benz S600 will blow it away (and any V12 in it's class).

Originally posted by RXhusker
I hope the VW dealership "ambassadors" have a few other duties -- I think there will be a lot of staring out the window waiting for people in the market for a $100k car to come wandering into the VW dealership. Let's see: corporate CEO's, Sports stars, Hollywood celebs, etc. -- yeah VW is always top of mind for these types -- going to go right past the Merc, Bentley, Jag dealerships -- and then past the VW passats and Beetles to ask the "ambassador" about the new VW for the jet set -- should be fun to watch.

p.s. I did sit in one at the Detroit Auto show -- impressive quality -- but not a $100,000 vehicle IMHO

Oh yeah I can't wait untill they (Pheaton owners) have to put up with VW's chronicly substandard service and support.

I owned VW's Passat W8, then the flagship of the line and had it repurchased due to complaints about how poor the service was. I paid $39,000 for a friggin' Yugo! As that is the kind of service I was getting!

I don't think the Pheaton is going to be around very long. When VW starts takking it up the ass in sales and then all the complaints about the poor service maybe then they will wake up and smell the coffe and get back to producing cars for the masses not the privileged few!

Mercedes S600: $125,000, 490 horsepower, 590 torque, 4600 pounds. Twin turbo V12.

BMW 760: $120,000, 438 horsepower, 444 torque, 4900 pounds. Direct Fuel Injection V12 (good gas mileage for its size and power).

VolksWagen Phaeton W12: $98,000, 420 horsepower, 406 torque, 5400 pounds. W12.

(All info courtesy Edmunds.com)

So if you
1. absolutely must have a 12 cylinder engine in your car
2. don't mind if the 12 cylinders are not in a V formation
3. refuse to buy a used car
4a. don't care about brand recognition OR
4b. can afford $100,000 but not $120,000
5. are not overly considered with reliability

The Volkswagen Phaeton W12 is the perfect car for you. Any bets as to how many people fit that category?

I think they need to cut the cost of the Phaeton in any trim by 30% before it will meet even their conservative sales targets. Lexus broke into the luxury car market by offering superb vehicles at competitive prices with excellent reliability. VW's Phaeton is a decent vehicle with poor price and bad reliability. No way, no how.

Tank...who would pay that much for a volkswagon. rediculous

Originally posted by noahprtlnd
According the Car and Driver, the difference is 545 lb., and they have equal 0-60 times, 0.1 second difference in 1/4 mile times, and the VW outperforms the Audi on the skidpad. I got the weights from VWs website (comparison with Audi A8). To doublecheck I then went to Audi's website and did the same. In each case the VW weighed 5200 lbs and the Audi weighed about 4400lbs - the exact difference was 795lbs. Finally I went to Edmunds.com and compared the two - again with a 800lb difference. If C&D accidentally added 255lbs to their Audi somehow then I can see how the Audi's performance might be adversely effected.

From www.autoextremist.com (http://www.autoextremist.com):

Ferdinand Piech, the oftentimes brilliant but wildly egomaniacal engineer who in his earlier years was responsible for some of the greatest Porsche racing cars ever built, including the magnificent 908/3 (my personal favorite) and the legendary 917, and who ran Volkswagen with an iron fist before ascending to the chairmanship of VW's supervisory board, has now solidified his legacy in such an unexpectedly negative way that no one could have imagined it possible even five years ago.

"Piech's Folly" - which was a grandiose platform strategy scheme to turn VW into a manufacturer of ultra-luxury vehicles, in a bold attempt to establish VW as the world's premier automotive brand - has only succeeded in taking VW's eye off of the ball and caused the company to fall behind in its core markets. While Piech's "vision" unleashed a series of cars like the new $70,000+ VW Phaeton (including a costly new assembly facility in Dresden), the Bentley Continental GT (still yet to arrive in showrooms), the Audi A8, a new "more affordable" Lamborghini, the Gallardo (and an offshoot for Audi), and the ultimate waste of time, money and resources - the $1 million Bugatti Veyron (which still may not get built) - the wheels have come off for VW around the world.

VW sales were down 32 percent in January in the U.S. and a new, aggressive package of incentives is on the way to keep the brand from going into a freefall here. Meanwhile, VW's crucial, bread-and-butter car, the Golf, has been a lackluster performer since the fifth generation of the vehicle made its debut in the European market last fall, and now VW is having to slow production and add incentives to try to prop up flagging demand on its home turf. This would have been unthinkable for VW in the past.

Current VW CEO Bernd Pischetsrieder, who inherited this mess from Piech, will be faced with some very tough questions at the Geneva Auto Show this week, as members of the media are beginning to circle like sharks in the water, questioning the strategy of his predecessor while noting that the company's profit is plunging precipitously. And if Pischetsrieder and his handlers were smart, he would avoid getting into any explanations about the "why" of all of it and instead just go over the steps being taken to try to pull VW out of this mess right now.

Because at the end of the day the "why" is quite clear.

The "why" for VW revolves around the fact that its former chairman - a wild, egomaniacal presence who never, ever heard the word "no" and who ran roughshod and unfettered over everyone in his quest to impose his "vision" on every aspect of the company - is single-handedly responsible for the precarious position VW finds itself in right now.

And anyone who thinks VW will be able to recover from this in a few quarters is kidding themselves. Intensifying competition from the Asian car companies is starting to really be felt in Europe, for one thing, and a newly invigorated GM presence (although they have a long way to go) is sure to spell trouble for VW over there. Not to mention the fact that VW won't have any new products here in the U.S. market to replace the Golf and the Jetta for at least a year, while they continue to try to figure out how to get people interested in the slow-selling Phaeton (incentive leases are coming).

Ferdinand Piech - the man whose legacy should have been solidified around the many engineering achievements over his career and who is now safely ensconced as the all-powerful chairman of the VW supervisory board, where he's far, far away from the tough questions and the sticky concepts like responsibility and accountability - is now saddled with being the man behind one of the biggest corporate "face-plants" in automotive history.



I think that all the German auto companies are in for a world of pain soon - Porsche (Boxster sales are almost gone, 911 following suit, Cayenne beginning to slow down), BMW (styling disasters inside and out, electronic overkill), VW (reliability issues, real-world goal of cannibalising Audi sales) and Mercedes (poor quality and reliability documented everywhere).

Of the four I think Mercedes is over the hump and about to make a comeback (SL and soon to be released CLS). They admitted their mistakes in quality (but not reliability) and new models should be much better (at a price of course). The other three brands will not admit to any mistakes and will really suffer over the next three years IMO.

What annoys me about VW is that when they released the Phaeton in the USA they said it was good value compared to other German luxury cars. They totally ignored 'other' luxury brands like Lexus (best selling luxury nameplate in USA) and Infiniti as if they were beneath them - this is exactly the attitude that BMW/MB had 14 years ago when Toyota launched Lexus and they suffered mightily because of it - VW cannot even learn from the history of other German marques. To me the Phaeton W8 will be a joke until it dramatically undercuts the LS430/Q45 in price (i.e. $50k for a loaded car that costs $73k now) and offers similar reliability to Infiniti/Lexus. The $100k Phaeton W12 (without the smoothness of a V12 mind you) will always be a joke no matter what VW does.

Well thats about a gas-guzzler if i have ever seen one...how many miles to the gallon does it get.....10?