So I've had the stage 1 for about 3 weeks. About 2 weeks ago while driving around and merging onto the turnpike I was accelerating at about 60% throttle when all of the sudden I got a CEL. Didnt feel any hesitation in the car, it just happened to go on right when I was glancing at the dash. Otherwise I would have never noticed it until later. Car seemed fine and I drove home. Once there I tried starting it up and didnt have any problem, just a persistant CEL. Well, afetr starting the car 5 times (in the next day and a half) it went out. I figured I'd wait it out and see what happened. Sure enough, it came up again. SO I unplugged the battery to clear out any CEL, then turned off the stage 1 and ran the car for a week with no CEL's. Then yesterday I turn it back on and after about 45 minutes got another CEL.

OK, so I go to the source and email Maurice about it and here is what he had to say: (I am posting so as to save him the trouble of going over it again, as well as the fact that I found the info very usefull as I am still learning about tuning and think others might apreciate it as well)


We have seen this 3 or 4 times now.
I **think** what is happening is an interaction with another function in the ECU.

We have been working on an entirely new map and configuration.
Mazda came out with en ECU flash that seems to be targeting improvement in fuel economy.
Among other changes it makes the midrange very lean, then retards timing to compensate.
This ECU flash seems to be found on cars imported after some point in late December, and on those recently having a service where the dealer reflashes it. These started showing up about 2 weeks ago.
Whether or not your is subject to this , or not, however is not the point.

We did a new setup, and mapping based on using a bit of advance, combined with a new fuel map.
It is a bit less aggressive in the fuel settings, and adds a bit of ignition advance, in some strategic places. We originally did it to alleviate some of the "dip" at around 4,500rpm.
We found that trying to tune out these dips with fuel only was not terribly reliable. Changes in air intake tracts, combined with fuel adjustments could make it awkward. For example, we tune it to smooth out in a 1st or 2nd gear run where you go through the rpm range in a short time period. The actual time factor is short, and the changes have a delay before they come in to effect. So we have to do the changes in advance of the targetted rpm point. If we set this advance time factor for 1st or 2nd, it is wrong for 4th or 5th, where the revs climb more slowly.
However if we use a bit of ignition advance at those points ( 3 to 5 degrees, for a range of about 100 to 250rpm) it is much more controllable and predictable. There is no latency or lag in the application of a change in timing advance.

As a result, all new units now have ignition control integrated in them, same as a Stage2 build.
As a result all units now are the same hardware setup, simply a different tuning map for Stage 1 or Stage2.

This also makes the process of upgrades much easier. If someone buys a Stage1, and wants to upgrade to Stage2, all they need is a software revision.
We will have a program for this available in the next few days. It is written already, just needs some tweaking to make the user interface a bit more friendly.
It also requires that there be access to the programming port, as we covered it in the earlier ones.
All new units have the port open, with a cover plate over it, secured by screws.
We will sell the cable and update software for $75
Further, if people want to do their own tweaking and tuning, we will offer the cable and the full software for $150. We are not gong to sell that to everyone, as it requires the use of a proper wide-band, 5 wire fuel/air lambda sensor and logger. Some skills and knowledge are required for that, or bad things could happen!

BTW, the ignition control interface we have added inside these units has a true rpm or tachometer output, which is useful for tuning, as the tach in the dash is badly inaccurate, and not very useful fro tuning, where only the driver may see it!

We have planned to contact our customers who already have Stage1, and offer an upgrade.



So there ya have it folks. For this being a side-venture sure looks like time is being taken to do it right huh? Hope ya dont mind the blatant copy/paste Maurice, but I didnt feel like trying to re-explain all of your reply :D

Genom, thanks for the info. Doesn’t this bring a new "hook" into the equation? I guess Maurice is retuning his piggyback (ver1.1) under the assumption that the end user has had a reflash, which many early pre-orders may not have done. Any thoughts on having a ver1.1 piggyback installed and how it will react on a originally tuned car?

Maurice states, "Whether or not your is subject to this , or not, however is not the point."

From what Maurice has written above I am not certain whether he is planning or already has compensated for this difference. I'm curious what the answer will be on this?

so whats better for performance. The original PCM fuel maps....with richer A/F's
-------------OR------------

The new PCM calibration with LEANER A/F's along with retarded timing.

Is there any difference in over all feel or power from the engine with the new Mazda fuel maps?

Good stuff.

With the interface port, tuning software and true RPM/tach interface, it is starting to look like my setup more and more each day! :p

brothervoodoo: From what I understood even with the ECU reflash the new map should prove to be smoother in the 1.1

So sounds like for those of us who has a pre-ordered 8, we should find out if Mazda plans to reflash our PCM. If so, then we'll need to upgrade to Stage 1.1 after the re-flash.

From my point of view it sounds like the ECU mod is based upon RPM and doesnt take into consideration other factors that seem to be important (ie Stage, Mazda remap which produced Stage 1.1).

If it was based upon fuel ratios and air and rpm then to me it wouldnt matter if the mapping changed as you are basing the calculations on more reliable data to make the changes on the fly...

But what do I know :)

David...

Originally posted by davefzr
From my point of view it sounds like the ECU mod is based upon RPM and doesnt take into consideration other factors that seem to be important (ie Stage, Mazda remap which produced Stage 1.1).

If it was based upon fuel ratios and air and rpm then to me it wouldnt matter if the mapping changed as you are basing the calculations on more reliable data to make the changes on the fly...

But what do I know :)

David...

That isn't the case; so whatever you do know, it does not include this.:p

The Canzoomer box works just like the E-Manage system I've outlined (see SIG) only with no setup or installation hassles.
Plug-n-play.
It tracks RPM, airflow and throttle position.
What adjustments that are made are dependant on data gathered on RX-8s that were programmed from the factory with one set operating parameters that existed up until just a few weeks ago. Those parameters are quite different after this new ROM flash and adjustments have to be made to the Canzoomer box just like I will have to do with my E-Manage setup.
It isn't voodoo, just a new set of circumstances.

Ohh ok.. I got it now. Thankx for the reply! I can see many versions of this mod coming out ir that is the case then.

David...

Now I am really confused as what to do......

I guesse we need to know what Madza firmware Genom's car has. Also since my 8 was built in December, I am wondering what firmware is in mine. When I talked with Maurice I thought he indicated the new Mazda maps were done in the last few weeks, not months.

I would love to get this unit installed- it just seems like things will be delayed till all variables are considered. Of course another option seems like perhaps if every unit shipped with the cable and software (even at additional cost for the cable- the SW may have to be a freebe)- Maurice could create safe maps for each version of the Mazda firmware, and every owner could upload the appropriate map for thier car. If you didn't know what firmware was in your car, I suppose we could try a different map until we hit one that didn't trigger any CEL.

I would imagine I am running the old maps as the last time I was in for a Mazda oil change was about 2 months ago and I never noticed any kind of difference at all.

Originally posted by Genom
I would imagine I am running the old maps as the last time I was in for a Mazda oil change was about 2 months ago and I never noticed any kind of difference at all.

Me too; my reflash was almost 6 weeks ago. I guess when I bring it in for the warranty work in March I might as well just uninstall the Stage One and ship it back to CZ for upgrade, as I'll be afraid to turn it back on -- IF they are reflashing every time you bring in the car, as opposed to only in response to your getting a CEL or complaining about the mileage. This would be the part that would be nice to know.

Originally posted by Genom
I would imagine I am running the old maps as the last time I was in for a Mazda oil change was about 2 months ago and I never noticed any kind of difference at all. Hey Genom,

So what you are saying then is that you think that nothing Maurice has mentioned applies to your CEL situation?

You don't think you have any new Mazda reflash.

You obviously have the original CZ Stage 1 map.

So, you still have an unanswered problem. Right?

ok here's my story which seems to correlate to all this:

about 3 weeks ago i had a CEL light which i took in and they reflashed my ECU...they had to told me from about 2 weeks before that when i got my first CEL light that a new program was available to enhance MPG...anyways, my 2nd recflash came at the exact time i got Canzoomer's Stage 1...i got my car back from service and then i installed Canzoomer's Stage 1

well that's when i noticed that when my car is cold, the car 'stutters' from 2500-3000 and from 3000-3250 in 1st and 2nd gear respectively as if fuel was being cut off...it felt as if i was driving a manual car for the first time in 1st gear and the car was jolting back and forth but my foot was completely steady on the gas...and this WAS DEFINITELY NOT there before i installed the unit...

anyways, it's still happening now, but only when the car is cold...once it warms up those problems do disappear, but i AM experiencing rough idling when warm...

so do we, who seem to have the new flash upgrade, turn the unit off so that the CEL doesn't come on?

Does anyone know what the current version of the ECU firmware so we can find out which one is causing the CEL?

Originally posted by TitaniumRX8MD
Does anyone know what the current version of the ECU firmware so we can find out which one is causing the CEL?

Mazda is calling it "L".

Originally posted by brothervoodoo
Genom, thanks for the info. Doesn?t this bring a new "hook" into the equation? I guess Maurice is retuning his piggyback (ver1.1) under the assumption that the end user has had a reflash, which many early pre-orders may not have done. Any thoughts on having a ver1.1 piggyback installed and how it will react on a originally tuned car?

Maurice states, "Whether or not your is subject to this , or not, however is not the point."

From what Maurice has written above I am not certain whether he is planning or already has compensated for this difference. I'm curious what the answer will be on this?

Not really.
With the new flash ( which i had done on my car so I could test) the AFR ratio gets a bit leaner in midrange than before, but not so much as to be dangerous.

However it is outside of the range we want to keep it within.

So, we are backing off a bit in that area on fuel lean-ness ( is that a word??), and adding a bit of advance.

This makes it a proper set up with either the old or the new ECU maps. And still makes for a smooth response, and the proper power output.

By doing this we have also alleviated a bit of a "power dip" that is present in that range.

It is interesting as well, when we look at the map on some Australian cars, where they took the step of leaning out the mid rpm range as well, but went even further. In those it reached the point where it was definitely too lean.
So, if they ever do this version over here we want to make sure it is still safe.

BTW, for the Aussies reading this, we are now very close to the point of having a map for your cars.

Originally posted by Maniac
With the interface port, tuning software and true RPM/tach interface, it is starting to look like my setup more and more each day! :p
Exactly.
Initially we did not offer some of this in Stage1, as we were tying to keep the costs down.
However, now that we have also found the source for the connectors at a better price, and have designed a board for the ignition control wiring to go inside our box, we found that the cost increase is only slight.
So we decided to implement this in all of our builds.

We also added a connection point on it for a real tach output.
As the stock tach is rather inaccurate, and as some people have asked for this so they can hook up other tachs, or shift lights, we felt this would be useful.

Also, we will be providing for hooking up the Stage3 controller with this, so one may use multiple maps, stored on a SD FLASH RAM card. One can then select different maps for different applications.
It is still necessary to shut off the engine to do this, as the ECU would get annoyed if you did it while running.

That way people have a bit more flexibility.
For example you could have a Stage1 tune for daily driving, a stock tune for service and emissions tests, and a Stage2 tune for track use. You would still need to swap out your mid pipe fo rthe Stage2 tune useage, but this is not a very difficult job.

For those who do club racing, or similar, i feel that is a handy setup.

Another benefit of this is that if you do purchase the tuning cable and software, and have the tools and skills for doing your own tuning, you can store different maps for different track conditions, altitude, temperature, humidity, fuel type, etc.

Here is a picture of the display and controller for the Stage3 kit:

Thanks Canzoomer, so out of curiosity when is the next shipment of piggybacks going to happen?

At what kind of price point are you sending those controllers out ?

I want one for my Miata setup.
Can you supply the version with boost-control capabilities at a good price?

Originally posted by Genom
I would imagine I am running the old maps as the last time I was in for a Mazda oil change was about 2 months ago and I never noticed any kind of difference at all.
Genom's problem, which has shown up on 3 or 4 cars so far, was due to a firmware bug in the boards up to recently.
We have tracked it down, and that has now been corrected.
The maps and the ECU tune are a newer issue.
Basically, the new Mazda maps push the AFR leaner than i want to see it on a Stage1 setup. Not so far as to cause ping normally, and not in the higher rpm range where the exhaust gas temps become an issue.

Still, if one ran on 87 octane, in hot humid weather, and with a particularly crappy tank of gas there is a slim chance it will ping.

So, we backed off on the fuel/air tune that range a little bit, and added some advance to compensate.

Let's describe it in AFR ratios at 4,500rpm:
Mazda old ECU map made an AFR of around 11.4:1
Mazda's new ECU map makes it 12.6:1

Our old Stage1 map raised the AFR to 12.4:1 on the old Mazda ECU map.

This same Stage1 map will raise the new Mazda map to 13.6:1

Our new one raises it to 12.0 with the old Mazda map, and 13.2 with the new Mazda map

We added a few degrees of advance, so if you run the old Mazda map you gain about the same power as before, and with the new one you gain a couple more HP at that RPM. The increase over stock at that rpm is about 5 now, where it was about 2 before.

This tune is not possible on our older units, which only incorporated provision for fuel/air mixture, but not ignition advance.

So, we are contacting the people we already shipped to, and offering them an upgrade.
We are not charging for the upgrade itself, but one does have to pay for the freight.

Originally posted by shebam
Me too; my reflash was almost 6 weeks ago. I guess when I bring it in for the warranty work in March I might as well just uninstall the Stage One and ship it back to CZ for upgrade, as I'll be afraid to turn it back on -- IF they are reflashing every time you bring in the car, as opposed to only in response to your getting a CEL or complaining about the mileage. This would be the part that would be nice to know.

Yes, you definitely should do this.
As mentioned in a couple of other posts here there are reasons to do so, both for the sake of safety, and for better performance and smoothness.

As for future flashes, I really can't see Mazda pushing the AFR any leaner, as it would become out of the range they like to use.
It would inevitably raise exhaust gas temperatures if they went any further, and the catalytic converter life would be an issue.

I DO want to congratulate Mazda for doing this, BTW.
The newmap does seem to gain a bit more fuel economy inlower rpm range..
I have run through 3 tanks with it on my cr so far, in normal driving conditions, and I do see some improvement.

This is occuring in the lower rpm ranges, where our tuning does not change the stock maps.

There, I said something nice about Mazda!

Originally posted by brothervoodoo
Thanks Canzoomer, so out of curiosity when is the next shipment of piggybacks going to happen?
We are building them now.
As I mentioned earlier we had some grief with a supplier of wiring components, and this cost us a rather long delay of about 3 weeks in building.
We used the time to work on the new tuning, finishing of Stage2, and so on.
Better road conditions due to milder weather also helped a lot, as we need this for road testing.

I expect to be shipping out new units by the end of this week.

Sounds great, I look forward to hear reviews as people start to receive their new units!

Wow, how do you keep track of all the versions of ECU out there? Is there a limited number of versions or does Mazda just do it whenever they please?

If I wanted to reflash my ECU, what do I do, just call the Service Ceter and say, I want to reflash my car's ECU? Wont they think I'm crazy? For all I know, they'll say ok, have me come in, sit for 2 hours and then here you go it's done, and they didnt do anything.. possibly even charge me... hmm.

Originally posted by Maniac
At what kind of price point are you sending those controllers out ?

I want one for my Miata setup.
Can you supply the version with boost-control capabilities at a good price?
We could sell the bare controller, without the wiring config needed for the Stage3 kit, for about $295
On bulk orders I could probably manage a bit better.
A version with boost control tuning capability is also available at around $390. That price is still not final.

We also have miscellaneous bits and pices, like the 12 pin and 18 pin plugs, and wire terminals for them, to plug into the board, if someone wanted to do their own custom wiring.

Further details of this should probably be taken off list in email.

RX-Nut, some dealerships just reflash the thing others will not unless you throw a CEL. I would make the argument that you are getting shitty mileage, show them your log traking and that you know they have a new update that will help in that area.

Originally posted by RX-Nut
Wow, how do you keep track of all the versions of ECU out there? Is there a limited number of versions or does Mazda just do it whenever they please?

If I wanted to reflash my ECU, what do I do, just call the Service Ceter and say, I want to reflash my car's ECU? Wont they think I'm crazy? For all I know, they'll say ok, have me come in, sit for 2 hours and then here you go it's done, and they didnt do anything.. possibly even charge me... hmm.
It is the same ECU, just different firmware flashes on it.
Even the ECU in Japan is identical, other than theprogramming.
As for versions, get friendly with your neighbourhood Mazda dealers mechanic. They can look it all up on their Mazda service system.
There are a total of 4 released so far for N. America, 3 in Japan, 3 in Australia, 2 in Europe..

I am working on compiling all the details so I can post it here sometime soon, for those who are curious.
It is easy to get the version numbers this way, but more difficult to find out what issues each one is targetted at.
As for getting it done, up to now if you had no issues, why bother?

With the latest one, there are some clear gains for everyone, specifically in better fuel economy.

I had the latest flash done on thursday. I won't know about my mpg till I can refill and try to control right foot a little more. What I did notice, and please let me know if you saw changes here Maurice, that the idle when the car is warmed up seems smoother. Before the flash I was having what appeared to be a fairly rough idle and though I still feel some misfiring it isn't as bad as before.

I suspect that the smoother idling you see is probably due to the new map. It is leaner down in the lower rpm ranges, so it should idle better.

93rdcurrent

Do you notice any loss of low/mid range power with the new map? I think someome posted that they felt their car was slower after the reflash.

Mainly I just wanted to bump this up this morning for all to read, sounds like great news.

Boy, am I glad I was patient for once in my life :) With any luck, and Maurice's and friends hard work, we should be getting the newest ones soon.

Once again, Canzoomer, I marvel at the effort you're putting into this project. With hind sight you probably wonder what you have gotten into. All the curve balls thrown would have derailed most folks from building a commercial version as you have. Thanks for the commitment.
Tom

Originally posted by islandsoon
Once again, Canzoomer, I marvel at the effort you're putting into this project. With hind sight you probably wonder what you have gotten into. All the curve balls thrown would have derailed most folks from building a commercial version as you have. Thanks for the commitment.
Tom You took the words right out of my keyboard. CZ is top notch! I'm very impressed how he's already got the answers on all of this. I am most impressed indeed!

Originally posted by canzoomer


Still, if one ran on 87 octane, in hot humid weather, and with a particularly crappy tank of gas there is a slim chance it will ping.

Hot humid weather? Don't you mean cooler, drier weather?

Hot and humid always means I have to *lean out* the mixture, not richen it.

:confused:

Originally posted by racerdave
Hot humid weather? Don't you mean cooler, drier weather?

Hot and humid always means I have to *lean out* the mixture, not richen it.

:confused:
For good reason.
At first glance colder temperatures result in higher density of charge.

However, this is not the only factor in play:
High humidity means the air is already saturated with H2O.
This means it has less capacity for fuel to evaporate.
This means the mixture contains LESS FUEL.
Colder would certainly make for a denser mixture.
However we get a higher H2O saturation at higher temperatures, because of water's higher condensation dew point.
So, generally you see more problems at low altitude, high temp and humidity than at lower temp, high humidity.
At 35C air can hold almost twice as much water vapour compared to at 15C.


Does this make more sense to you now?

I haven't really noticed any lag in mid rpm range. I am going off my butt dyno though and I certainly haven't had the opportunity to run several tests. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to turn off the re-flash and test it under both conditions like I would with CZ's piggyback. But overall the car "feels" a little bit faster. Not enough to write home about.

Thank you Maurice. You answered my question about whether or not the fuel was leaned out at idle.

Hey guys, where did you find the info on the reflash that mazda has come out with? I just got off the phone with my dealership's service dept. and they said they haven't heard anything about a reflash for an adjusted fuel map. I told them of what I had found on the forum and they essentially laughed at me saying that I can't trust everything that i hear on forums. Is there a code or something that I can give them so that they'll reflash my ecu?

They also said that all dealerships are different and that they may not get the same info as the others. I was so frustrated that I could have screamed. Can some help me with this, please?

Originally posted by canzoomer

Does this make more sense to you now?

Yep.

I'm generally tuning off of RAD, temp and humidity when making jetting changes on my 2-stroke (plus plug reading, etc). So I can see the rationale.

But I guess one of the beauties of the simple, carbed 2-stroke is the simplicity.

What you're doing is way more complex.

Originally posted by success07
Hey guys, where did you find the info on the reflash that mazda has come out with?

i'm simply going by what my dealership told me...the first time i had a CEL and oil light i also asked them to check on my MPG issue and they said there was a flash for it...i got the CEL light again and they said there was another flash for the ECU and was different from the first one...so far my CEL hasn't come back on and my MPG is somewhat better, but not by much

Originally posted by success07
Is there a code or something that I can give them so that they'll reflash my ecu?

Misfire code worked for me. Also complain about your mileage. I'd also try another dealer.

The build as I understand it is "L". Maurice posted it. I told the dealership that there was a re-flash available and they told me that they weren't so sure about it. So I told them that if they needed I would state that I had a CEL warning. They did a check and came up with the re-flash.

They also told me that I couldn't get a reflash just to get a reflash. But the way I see it, if there is something out there that will make my car run better and get better gas mileage I should get it regardless. I'm I wrong?

If, in fact, that I go over there to have the car reflashed, how can I know for sure that they did anything?

Also is there several different reflashes or do they keep updating the reflash to include all issues?

They will post a sticker on your fuse box showing the re-flash date and what build it is. They may not want to just do a re-flash so why don't you say that you are experiencing a CEL and poor gas mileage and idle just like I did. Then they will just give the upgrade with out asking too many questions.

Originally posted by canzoomer

As for getting it done, up to now if you had no issues, why bother?


Because if I planned on getting the Stage 1, I want to be sure my version of the firmware is the best one for the Stage 1, 1.1, or whichever.. or would it not matter?

Originally posted by success07
They also told me that I couldn't get a reflash just to get a reflash. But the way I see it, if there is something out there that will make my car run better and get better gas mileage I should get it regardless. I'm I wrong?

If, in fact, that I go over there to have the car reflashed, how can I know for sure that they did anything?

Also is there several different reflashes or do they keep updating the reflash to include all issues?

I talked to Maurice today and he said that there were previous reflashes. This current reflash includes the updates from previous reflashes AND the new maps to improve mpg.

He said my Stage 1 will be fine unless I go in for the current reflash (which I have no plans of doing any time soon). Basically, after the reflash, the combonation of Mazda's new maps and the Stage 1's settings will cause the car to run lean at certain rpm's. Maurice stated that it wasn't "dangerously" lean, but is a bit to close to "the edge."

I'm not feeling any sense of urgency at this point, and Maurice seems to have the situation well in hand. He will be a posting a "press release" type of statement regarding this issue and his plans to "correct" it in older Stage 1 modules.

When I asked what I should do at this point, he just said to give him a few weeks to get caught up with things. At that point he said to contact him in regards to sending back my Stage 1 for the updates. With the upgrade my Stage 1 will have the ability to be updated for future reflashes or air/fuel map changes. The unit will then have a USB port on it for future updates by PC.

I'm in no huge hurry, but I'm glad he's got a plan to deal with this issue in the near future. The only down side is that I'll be without my Stage 1 for alittle while, but all will be good after that.

I also got my ECU reflashed today and the service manager at the dealer said this reflash would definately help with your mileage. I'll take look at my fuse box to what version it is.

Originally posted by TitaniumRX8MD
I also got my ECU reflashed today and the service manager at the dealer said this reflash would definately help with your mileage. I'll take look at my fuse box to what version it is.

What did you give the dealer as a chief complaint?

CEL or just poor MPG?

I gave them both, CEL and MPG story but he knew after the reflash I was bullsh*tting him about the CEL because there were no codes stored. Then I just told him that I disconnected my battery to clear the codes. He told me not to do that next time it happens. Just looked at my fuse box by the way, there was nothing there to find out which version I got flashed. Service mangager said that I have the most latest version though.

Ok guys I just looked at my work order sheet for the ECU reflash and this is the part #

N3Z2-18-881G


I hope this helps

This is how the reflash read on my invoice:

B Customer states the engine is running rough and at time the oil lamp will come on pulling away from a stop.

Cause: ..
A abnormal diag time
CM 0.00
6557 Mil not illuminated check for codes unable to verify rough run updated processor to latest level
************************************************
C Mazda/Lincoln Mercury full circle service
99P Mazda/Lincoln Mercury full circle service

TIRG TIRE STATUS GREEN

6557 Multipoint L= 0.1

This is what mine says:

Customer states that malfunction indicator light is on

Cause: Reflash PCM
F0010XFX Powertrain Control Module - Reflashing
F008XDX Emissions Diagnosis

FC: 6X9R
Part #: N3Z2-18-881G
Count: 0
Claim Type: A
Auth Code:

3680 Check for DTCS, None. None
************************************************** **

TiRX8MD,

What's weird about your invoice is the check for "DTCS, None.None". Maurice said that it was Build "L" and you can see on mine where they specifically state that they did the upgrade and the Multipoint L=0.1.

I wish I knew what all these codes refer to. For all I know mine says encoded "Customer faking complaint so we faked the ECU upgrade." And yours could say, "Customer is uncertain about PCM reflash and I am too tired to check into so I did nothing."

I know this sounds sarcastic but well.... It is.

That could be true and the only way to tell is when I get my Stage 1. But to note, after my reflash, I filled up my tank and have gone 71 miles on a quarter tank as opposed to only getting 50 miles on a quarter tank before reflash. Whatever they did, right now I have better mileage which the new fuel maps were suppose to do. Plus I hope the dealer wouldn't just bs me and inconvience my time and their time for nothing. I'm trying to be more optimistic than pessimistic.

Titanium... I'm not saying the reflash didn't help, but it's also been warmer in our neighborhoods as of late... that may have helped too.

Warmer weather true, but why didn't I get better mileage the few days before when it was 45 degrees here in Chicago? My driving style and type of driving did not change. Maybe my 8 is still in relearning mode and that why I'm getting better mileage. Either way I'm enjoying the better mileage and I'll let you know how the mileage continues with this current tank of gas.

cool. i'm certainly curious to hear what kind of differences the "flashed" see.

bump

I think the gas stations are starting to switch over to their summer gas also, which could also affect people's MPG.

If you want some backup for persuading the dealer to do the re-flash, take in a copy of these TSB's and complain about the symptoms described in them:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-024-03.html

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-007.htm

The latter one mentions the "L" service level flash that is current.

Mention that you are having a lot of misfiring..

If we plan to get a Stage 1 in the near future, should we have the latest version of the flash? Or will it not matter?

Originally posted by RX-Nut
If we plan to get a Stage 1 in the near future, should we have the latest version of the flash? Or will it not matter?

Withthe current version of Stage 1 (what some people are calling Stage 1.1) we recommend it, simply because you should get better gas mileage, and also as it fixes some small bugs in the ECU programming from Mazda.

However it is certainly not necessary, nor will it have much impact on performance combined with our unit.

My VIN number is just a bit newer than the range listed in the TSB concerning the reflash.

The dealer might well say that I don't need the reflash. Would I conclude that I already have the remapped version?

Originally posted by TitaniumRX8MD
Ok guys I just looked at my work order sheet for the ECU reflash and this is the part #

N3Z2-18-881G


I hope this helps

That may not be the newest one. There is a newer one, issued on 2/24/2004 that has a part number of:

N3H6 18 881L

and is for MIL ILLUMINATION WITH DTC P2107, P2108, OR P2109

My question is, what is MIL illumination?

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-010-04.html

Thanks for the info

I wonder what the Z stands for in my part # though

Originally posted by BRx8
My question is, what is MIL illumination?
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-010-04.html

Malfunction Idicator Light , basically the check engine icon.

Alright guys I just double checked and went to the dealer. They hooked up my car with the WDS computer ( I actually saw it on the screen) and it did verify that I had the most latest version of the PCM, which is the following:

N3H6-18-881L

Originally posted by 93rdcurrent
They will post a sticker on your fuse box showing the re-flash date and what build it is. They may not want to just do a re-flash so why don't you say that you are experiencing a CEL and poor gas mileage and idle just like I did. Then they will just give the upgrade with out asking too many questions.

Do they put the sticker inside or outside of the fuse box? (and if inside, in the inside fuse box or the one under the hood)?

I did have mine re-flashed a while ago, and don't see any obvious stickers.

I had my reflash on the 27th of January. Does that mean I probably got the "L" version? My receipt from the dealer does not say what version they reflashed to.

Would it be ok to follow the NV RAM reset procedure from the eccentric shaft replacement bulletin (where the L version sweeps the oil pressure gauge), just to find out if I have it or not?

Eccentric Shaft Plate memory profile TSB (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-007.htm)

Originally posted by mdmaclean
I had my reflash on the 27th of January. Does that mean I probably got the "L" version? My receipt from the dealer does not say what version they reflashed to.

Would it be ok to follow the NV RAM reset procedure from the eccentric shaft replacement bulletin (where the L version sweeps the oil pressure gauge), just to find out if I have it or not?

Eccentric Shaft Plate memory profile TSB (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-007.htm)

Yes....this proceedure in not harmful. Its a good way to see if you have the latest software. Good thinking.:)

They put my sticker on the fuse box in the engine compartment. I wish that they did put it underneath the fuse box and I think, now that you mention it, I will have them move it. I didn't particularly like staring at it when I opened the hood.

Ok, another only slightly unrelated question.

If there are cars on a dealer's lot... will they get the reflash too? I know they're supposed to get the TSBs, but I was wondering about reflash.

There's a silver base model sitting at a dealer close to me. I really want sports package for the HIDs, but if they cut a good enough deal on the base model, I'd get it.

That's why I was wondering.

When I bought I asked and they would check it, if I had not asked, don't know. But if you ask as part of the deal, they shouldn't have a problem doing it.

Oh yea, they are going to have to do the air bag and trans dampner recall, so they will have it in the shop anyways.

The dealerships wont reflash old invertory. They will only reflash the PCM if there is a verified problem. This is the root of alot of controversy. Many people (including myself) believe that we shouldn't have to present a problem ( CEL for example) to get the new software. Its not how service departments work. They perform warranty work after a verified problem is found. Its not like going to Nvidia.com and getting new drivers for the sake of having the latest software. There needs to be an existing issue.

This isnt to say you cant tell them you have crappy MPG and rough idle etc. They may just reflash the PCM to get you out the door. most all of the PCM reflashing occured AFTER a consult with the tech hotline.

I believe that the new software is an improvement in many areas. Its just a superior version. period. I believe I deserve the best PCM software version for the 30 grand I paid and shouldn't fight to get it.

I'm going to lobby at the dealership to get this upgrade. Lets see how far i get.

As far as dealership inventory goes, Canzoomer noted that he was seeing the new Mazda maps in vehicles with December build dates. If you buy a new RX8 now, it will have the proper software version.

I plan to tell the dealer I had better get the reflash or they will get all ZEROS on every satisfaction survey ever sent to me from Mazda -- nothing makes these guys squirm like getting bad ratings -- affects their pocketbook and gets the Mazda Regional rep on their a$$.

Yeah, and I'm sure they'll treat your car in a wonderful manner if you threaten them.

I agree that with such an expensive purchase, any new programming that affects performance, or reliability should be offered for free if the customer ask, ans also as part of any service the car needs. This is not a $100 video card we're talking about. A car is the 2nd biggest purchase people will generally ever make- and at the rate I'm going with apartment prices here in New York, it is the probably the biggest I'll ever make.

Seems like no practice is universal -- mine was reflashed Dec. 11 but no sticker outside or inside the fuse box.

As a business owner I am not afraid to get another owner on the phone and express myself -- I had to resort to it once with my 8 already and have been treated like royalty every since. The owner of the dealership has called me himself twice after service to make sure I was satisfied and would give them top ratings. You may have mis-interpreted my post -- "threatening" low ratings is a last resort. I plan on asking for the re-flash -- if I am not treated properly ...

Originally posted by SCiMMiA
Yeah, and I'm sure they'll treat your car in a wonderful manner if you threaten them.

Originally posted by ranger4277
Misfire code worked for me. Also complain about your mileage. I'd also try another dealer.

What does a misfire sound like (& what's the code)? (And, please describe a spiral staircase -- but it is a serious question.)

You'll hear your exhaust popping and your revs will not be stable at idle. That's what mine did anyway.

Originally posted by ranger4277
You'll hear your exhaust popping and your revs will not be stable at idle. That's what mine did anyway.

Hey, my case IS legit -- mine does that too. Thanks.

Originally posted by racerdave
Ok, another only slightly unrelated question.

If there are cars on a dealer's lot... will they get the reflash too? I know they're supposed to get the TSBs, but I was wondering about reflash.

There's a silver base model sitting at a dealer close to me. I really want sports package for the HIDs, but if they cut a good enough deal on the base model, I'd get it.

That's why I was wondering. I think that if you were ready to buy an '8, and you told the sales person you insist that they do any reflashes needed before you take delivery, they would cooperate. If they won't, then walk.

Also as RXHskr points out, Mazda dealerships are VEEEEeeyyyyyy concerned about getting high cust sat ratings. Not sure what kind of pressure Mazda corporate is putting on them, but it's considerable. Use that as a tool if need be.

Canzoomer will be posting soon on the latest news. I will say he is very up on getting the "L" flash. It appearantly improves the car quite a bit.

The final "new" Stage 1 program is done and the engine now acts like it's electric. Virtually no dips in power. I'm waiting to see a dyno plot, just to see what it's done on paper.

I think the Stage 2 program is also done, but I'll let him comment on that. Still waiting on cats. We're just polishing up the hardware changes (same hardware used in Stage 1 and 2). We learned quite a bit with the first batches of Stage 1 re manufacturing techniques. We think we've improved the reliability quite a bit. If you have one, and it works fine, you don't have to worry. We just had a few units with poor connections and a few were "adjusted" by shippers (broken switches). This improvement is necessary for high volume production, as there are over 90 connections in the box. They've all got to be good or the unit will not work properly.

Making the unit plug and play has benefits and potential pitfalls - all those connections is one potential problem area that we've had to deal with.

Those with Stage 1 boxes will be notified when we're ready to upgrade them. We think you'll like the improvements (a lot!).

All shipments from now on will be the "new" program/hardware.

That's great, Dave!

What non-stock features were used in testing?

Was Stage 1 testing done with stock exhaust & intake? Was it also tested with something non-stock, and if so, how did it compare to stock?

Same questions for Stage 2. I know it needs a full-flow cat, but y'all don't have the Random cat yet, so please give us the configurations tested.

And, of course, you had the new L flashed ECU, right?

They do have a random cat, it is just the 4" diameter one though. I believe the production cats sold by Maurice will be using a unique 5" cat that can withstand the temps better. Random is in the process of building some of these 5" units for the RX-8 owners. They have not had to use this cat on any other car, but after I burned out the 4" one, we are trying a new route to ensure cat longevity.

Oh? I pulled this quote from 2/20/04..

Originally posted by RX-8 friend in "Pics of the Random high flow/temp cat?"
The first one Maurice got is too small. It's about 1 foot long overall - body about 8" I think, with a 2.5 to 3" throat (spiral wound stainless inside with the catylist embedded into it). It also had an O2 bung in the downstream end (stainless as well). He's returning that one and waiting for the final one to arrive. We'll post pics. when it gets here. It has to be larger to handle the higher temps. Ya got me confused now...:confused:

Originally posted by mdmaclean
I had my reflash on the 27th of January. Does that mean I probably got the "L" version? My receipt from the dealer does not say what version they reflashed to.

Would it be ok to follow the NV RAM reset procedure from the eccentric shaft replacement bulletin (where the L version sweeps the oil pressure gauge), just to find out if I have it or not?

Eccentric Shaft Plate memory profile TSB (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-007.htm)

I did try this procedure out today, and it did sweep the oil pressure gauge. That means I have the "L" version! :p

Talking to Dave at Random, his cat has not been returned and a new one has not been sent yet I believe. I could be wrong. RX friend made it sound like everything was happening now, but I think its going to happen. Again, sorry if that assumption is incorrect.

Has anyone done a dyno run with the new "Y" fuel maps, and then compared them to stage 1.1, and the old power levels?

Maurice

JUST read all the 7 pages re the re-flash stage 1 with L reflash GREAT news .

Please let us no when you are ready to upgrade the 2 AUSTRALIAN UNITS .

Aussies are eager as mustard to hear some positive results from your stage 1 upgrade so we can overide the originall hicupp.

cheers
michael

Originally posted by mdmaclean
I did try this procedure out today, and it did sweep the oil pressure gauge. That means I have the "L" version! :p
Exactly right. If in doubt, try this procedure:
"1) Turn ignition switch to "ON" position, but do not start engine.
2) Depress and release brake pedal at least 20 times within an 8 second period.
NOTE:
Manual transmission vehicles produced after VIN 40132647 and automatic transmission equipped vehicles produced after VIN 40132607 or vehicles with PCM updated to "L" calibration can confirm the clearing procedure was performed. If procedure was successful, the oil pressure indicator needle will sweep from low to half, and then back to low. Vehicles produced prior to these VIN's or vehicles without "L" calibration do not have an indicator to confirm the clearing procedure was performed."

Canzoomer, i have heard that are concerned because the fuel maps are supposedly leaned between 3-7k rpms. You were concerned that this would b running too lean with your mod on, but this is all secondhand information, and here you say you recommend a reflash before installing stage 1. Is it true that it could b running very close to too lean with your Stage 1 and a reflash?

Originally posted by Rotarian_SC
Canzoomer, i have heard that are concerned because the fuel maps are supposedly leaned between 3-7k rpms. You were concerned that this would b running too lean with your mod on, but this is all secondhand information, and here you say you recommend a reflash before installing stage 1. Is it true that it could b running very close to too lean with your Stage 1 and a reflash?
I am a bit concerned.
Mazda cranked the mixture leaner, and we are adjusting off that base map. It is not the ONLY reference point, but it is still leaner than I prefer.

That is one reason why we want to upgrade existing units, and also the fact that our new maps are simply a lot better.
They deliver more even power across the band.

CZ

INTERESTED IN PURCHASING STAGE 2 KIT, INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION ON THE BEST MIDPIPE REPLACEMENT TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE OR ANY BODY ELSES FOR THAT MATTER. NEW TO THE SITE HAVENT SEEN ANY THREADS ON MIDPIPE RECOMMENDATIONS. WHAT IS THE CURRENT PRICING ON STAGE 2 AND HOW DO I FIND OUT WHAT FUEL MAP MY CAR CAME WITH. FROM READING TO MY UNDERSTADING YOU DONT HAVE TO HAVE THE STAGE 1 BEFORE 2 PLEASE CONFIRM.

THANKS FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE FOR THE RX CLUB CZ



:cool:

Originally posted by OBryanRX8
CZ

INTERESTED IN PURCHASING STAGE 2 KIT, INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION ON THE BEST MIDPIPE REPLACEMENT TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE OR ANY BODY ELSES FOR THAT MATTER. NEW TO THE SITE HAVENT SEEN ANY THREADS ON MIDPIPE RECOMMENDATIONS. WHAT IS THE CURRENT PRICING ON STAGE 2 AND HOW DO I FIND OUT WHAT FUEL MAP MY CAR CAME WITH. FROM READING TO MY UNDERSTADING YOU DONT HAVE TO HAVE THE STAGE 1 BEFORE 2 PLEASE CONFIRM.

THANKS FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE FOR THE RX CLUB CZ
:cool:
We're running a few threads in parallel here .. some of the answers are on this thread, others are on http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21909&perpage=15&pagenumber=1.

For a full survey, back up to the Canzoomer part of the vendor forums and look at a few .....

OBryanRX8,

We definitely appreciate your enthusiasm but in future posts could you please lower your voice a little? Try not to yell so much when your typing. Thanks.

Hello Fellas...

Had a nice visit with the local Mazda Dealer Service Manager today. He advises that the N3H6 18 881L is ONLY a flash to repair a CAT error code. He called Mazda tech support and they confirmed. The guy has a performance car shop background and an engineering degree. Pretty straight. He is going to flash my pre L RX8 to the this latest code, but doesn't think it will do anything for mileage. He is basing this belief on Mazda's statements, but is willing to experiment. He thinks Mazda will be releasing a flash for the cold shut off / flooding issue and that Mazda will try to address the poor mpg with that update. Said he is getting quite a number of non starters, several repeat customers and is billing Mazda $220 each time.

Originally posted by islandsoon
Hello Fellas...

<snip>
He is going to flash my pre L RX8 to the this latest code, but doesn't think it will do anything for mileage.
<snip>

Had the same discussion with my dealer yesterday. They're pushing back, however, and have yet to agree to apply the flash since my VIN is not covered under either TSB.

They have to look at your car anyway to handle the air bag recall.... A little more begging in order?? However, if my service manager is right, we may be wasting all our 'the smart guys on the forum said' credits.
Tom

Can't one "create" a CEL by disconnecting one of the O2 sensors (the one by the cat) and then take it in to have them reflash?

Perhaps not the most ethical solution, but them not spending 10 minutes to reflash because they don't want to is BS as well, especially if they are doing other work (TSB) on the car anyway.

CZ actually looked at the fuel maps after his PCM was re-flashed and saw the different fuel maps. I trust CZ to be honest about his findings. Something else to keep in mind. It is costing him to update all the Stage 1 units out there and I am sure that if it didn't need to be done CZ wouldn't just do all this work for nothing.

I agree but this reflash is odd. I wonder if the new maps are only in Canda or something...

from what i see i back cz too

We think the "L" flash was developed in Japan and is intended for world wide use. I'm not surprised some dealers can't/will not do it. Technical competancy has not been a common trait with car dealers. If it were me, it would be a "no brainer" to do the latest flash, especially if the customer wanted it. It does take about 15 min. so the dealer would want to charge Mazda for that time. Perhaps it's Mazda who doesn't want to spend the money unless there is an obvious problem.

Dealers cannot bill a warranty claim without a problem code that has been approved by the manufacturer for that procedure. For a reflash, the manufacturer can approve a blanket upgrade for anyone who asks (this has happened with some Hondas) or limit the procedure to certain problem codes. Sounds like Mazda has not authorized warranty claims for the L reflash without specific problem codes.

The dealer could go ahead and do it for "good will" and eat the labor cost, but they usually want to get something for their time.

Well i am sure the threat of a complaint or bad performance report would give the dealer plenty of good will.

Remeber what you paid for or at least what was advertised.

Originally posted by TM45
Dealers cannot bill a warranty claim without a problem code that has been approved by the manufacturer for that procedure. For a reflash, the manufacturer can approve a blanket upgrade for anyone who asks (this has happened with some Hondas) or limit the procedure to certain problem codes. Sounds like Mazda has not authorized warranty claims for the L reflash without specific problem codes.

The dealer could go ahead and do it for "good will" and eat the labor cost, but they usually want to get something for their time.

Looks like I'm facing this exact situation. My dealers's service department doesn't have any information about a reflash that leans the A/F map. I'm assuming that this is because that is probably a side effect of the reflash and was not spefically called out in its description. So I'm thinking that I'm going to have to come up with a specific issue that this reflash describes.

Maybe this was posted before, but is there a specific TSB that this reflash is described in?

Originally posted by vix8
Maybe this was posted before, but is there a specific TSB that this reflash is described in?

Here's one, not sure how many other Service bulletins call for a PCM reflash.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-024-03.html

You can find all service bulletins at Rosenthal Mazda's site.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/index.html

I checked today and my dealer reports that the ECU reflash can be authorized for some CEL problem codes and one other seemingly unrelated problem code (something to do with oil pressure.) If they agree to do it without these codes, the dealer is likely just eating the cost.

An unwritten alternative is that many things can be authorized by the manufacturer for warranty compensation if the customer raises enough hell under the "good will" provision.

I think my strategy is going to insist that they give me the latest reflash when I go in to have the two recall items installed. According to the service guy I spoke with, they always check to make sure the latest is installed whenever a car is in for service.

Not sure whether to beleive him or not, but I'll be checking to make sure the latest IS installed before I leave the dealership!

NONE of you have the right to go into a dealer and DEMAND a reflash!

A reflash is often the method manufacturers use to address customer concerns, in other words, to make customers HAPPIER. And to IMPROVE THE PRODUCT.

I do not like the vibes I feel in this thread from some people who think they should demand a flash. I think this is a negative attitude towards a positive move by Mazda.

If you have a good relationship with your dealer and he thinks your car would 'benefit' from the software in the TSB then he will install it for you. Don't make waves over something that is a 'nice to have', not a 'need to have'.

Oh, by the way. Every time a dealer hooks your car up to a WDS it checks to see if there are any calibration updates, so you will all probably get this calibration in the future anyway...

Originally posted by Mr M
NONE of you have the right to go into a dealer and DEMAND a reflash!

A reflash is often the method manufacturers use to address customer concerns, in other words, to make customers HAPPIER. And to IMPROVE THE PRODUCT.

I do not like the vibes I feel in this thread from some people who think they should demand a flash. I think this is a negative attitude towards a positive move by Mazda.

If you have a good relationship with your dealer and he thinks your car would 'benefit' from the software in the TSB then he will install it for you. Don't make waves over something that is a 'nice to have', not a 'need to have'.

Oh, by the way. Every time a dealer hooks your car up to a WDS it checks to see if there are any calibration updates, so you will all probably get this calibration in the future anyway...

Why do we not have the right to request (or demand ) a reflash? You obviously know nothing about what this reflash does for this car. The reflash remaps air/fuel mixes in certain rmp ranges and improves MPG. How is that not an "IMPROVEMENT OF THE PRODUCT?" I don't know about you, but I "NEED" to save any money I can on fuel costs. I don't see that as having a "negative" attitude, it's just rational thinking.

Mr M...

It would seem that dealers don't reflash every time they hook up. If they did, we wouldn't have guys coming back from dealers with old rev levels. As to demanding, certainly we can demand! A 2800# car getting under 15 mpg (never mind EPA stated estimates) is something needing a bit of demanding. In the short history of the RX8, we have seen dealers claiming they don't know about low mpg, claiming the cars don't flood, that the car has 250, no 247, no 238 hp etc. Give me a break about not demanding and bad vibes from folks on this forum.
Tom

Mr. M

I you buy a computer product and a bug is found in the software, do you think you can demand a Fix. Or do you believe it is just something you should live with?

All we are talking about with a ECU re-flash is a software update. I haven't had mine done yet (got an appt. on the 13th) but this should take less the 20 min. and not require any parts. So the only expense for the dealer is time.

I will demand the flash when I take mine in for the Air bag recall.

Since when did McDonalds start putting potatoes in their fries. I thought that New Jersey Chemistry Labs were the home of McDonalds fries...

Anyway I agree that if there is a problem with the car that a reflash has been shown to solve, like bad fuel economy, then I believe you have a right to have that reflash from your dealer. It even mentions this in the 9th Amendment in the US

Actually McDonald's fries are made of rice. And it looks like everyone has taken the typing out of my hands, so to speak. No need to step on the soap box today.

Sure, you have a right to any improvements, I just don't think you should go in hissing and roaring and destroy relations with your dealer. Ask nicely, that is what I am saying.

These updates are usually loaded into the WDS (diagnostic tool) using a CD, but Mazda probably decided they didn't want to wait for that, and issued the TSB early. I think it is very likely that every dealer will have the new software in their WDS machine within a few months, so that the minute they hook it up they will know to update your PCM to the new version. Probably....maybe...

From what we've seen at the dealer, the flash is actually kept at one place (back east somewhere at Ford, we think). The dealer hooks up his networked computer and downloads the flash directly into your car. It takes about 15 min. so it's probably dialup.

I suppose they do it this way to ensure all dealers have the same info/build and for security.

Still, it is interesting that most/all dealers don't seem to know that there might be a jewel in this latest flash to "L".
Tom

In regards to this flash. Has anyone left their stage 1 in and gone to have the flash done? Or are you all removing them before you take it into the dealer?

The prevailing wisdom is just to switch it off, as the flash is done from a port in back of the dashboard, not by opening the ECU box.

Yah, or take it out to be sure it isn't discovered. I understand it takes ~ 15 minutes. It's purely a matter of choice, shebam is correct, but who knows what may happen...

I took mine out.. but it's also a good time to exchange it for 1.1 too.

Maurice left his in, in the "OFF" switch position. It didn't affect the reflash process. If you leave it "ON", their computer will detect a MAF problem.

No, sorry, byut leaving it on does not show up on the diagnostics.
At the last re-flashI intentionally lef tit all on, and also had them run the engine and PCM diagnostics. No error codes showed up, and it went fine.

We have **FINALLY** finished retuning for L flash. WE did a fairly quick re-tune for safety a while back, but I was not completely happy with the results.
So, we held off shipping back any of the rebuilds and the new units for a couple of weeks, and worked on perfecting the tune to accomodate L more smoothly.
As of today I am **VERY** pleased to say it is done now.

So, we program and ship units as fo tomorrow.

Mazda did some really twisted stuff in L to save fuel and reduce flooding issues. Some of it really does work. However what it does NOT do is improve power. It actually costs power in the range of 5,100 to 6,500 rpm.

We have compensated for the L flash behaviours now.

So for those of use with the first units for the L flash, should we arrange to send them back, or can we now download your new pgm using a cable?

Originally posted by Sea Ray
So for those of use with the first units for the L flash, should we arrange to send them back, or can we now download your new pgm using a cable?

Sea Ray,

Certianly not the autority but ...

If you had one of the very early Stage I's you don't have the upgraded unit that woudl allow the data port connection. Don't know how early you got yours (lucky dog :) ) but I undertsand the cables are readily availble if you have the correct Stage I.

Hope that helps.

Hi Whealy,

My unit is dated March 5th, ordered Dec 03, and it does have the port (USB ?) in the unit. I would like to be able to update it while still in the car which should be possible using a laptop I hope.

I don't have the cable but Maurice said ealier that he will sell them. And I assume the updates should be available on his web site or he could e-mail them to us.

Thanks

Sea Ray,

Then yep i beleive you are set. Just get yout cables. Of course Maurice will again be busy with the updated Stage I shipping, but I assume he can get you the cables. Now he probably needs to setup a FTP site on his web site. Good thing Maurice is a computer guy too!

Good luck and let us know how it goes.