May 6, 2010 - RotaryNews.com has confirmed the MY-2011 (Model Year 2011) RX-8 will be the last. What this means is there will be another gap when Mazda will have no Rotary Powered car in the US market.

There will be no Tokyo Autoshow this year for passenger cars, as 2010 is a commercial vehicle show., nor have we heard of a project car for the LA or Detroit autoshow. What this means is at the earliest, the RX-7 concept could be shown at the 2011 Tokyo Autoshow, in October 2011. Mazda still has to sort out issues with the 16x, so it could 2012-2013 at the earliest before the next Rotary Sports Car hits the streets….
Full story at: http://rotarynews.com/
Please feel free to leave feedback! We know Mazda is watching!


-Berny H.
http://rotarynews.com/

Does that mean the value of our cars will go up? haha

quite the opposite.

What we need is a fast and the furious 5 only using rx-8's, and all through the movie they make comments about how reliable the RX-8 is. Oh also how it can smoke a Ferrari after its been set on fire and trashed at a junkyard.

Yea then we will prosper.

we can call it Fast and Furious 8, (obviously!)

Nice i like it!

So sad.. Such a nice car!

Vince

sales is so slow, you really can't blame them. but 9 years (counting jdm) ain't too bad. i'll keep mine for a while

I'm with rotary news, i sure hope a mazdaspeed rx8 comes out. Oh man, if this news is true ima start saving now..

Please feel free to leave last model RX-8 feedback on the RN.COM story at:

http://rotarynews.com/node/view/1090

We know Mazda is peeking at the feedback there... ;)



-Bern

^^ That is why I posted this here Bern :)

Go post away and check out his links!

Do people REALLY think Mazda is going to go through the expense of federalizing an all new motor or FI setup just for one last final hurrah on a car that has been nailed to the showroom floor?

I want to believe, but come on...

Do people REALLY think Mazda is going to go through the expense of federalizing an all new motor or FI setup just for one last final hurrah on a car that has been nailed to the showroom floor?

Yes

http://nativenotes.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/k447king-i-have-a-dream-posters.jpg

http://www.explode.com/bimages/rr-img-games97-parappa.GIF

well at this point they have spent so much on the 16x project they cant exactly turn around so its def going to be released I just don't know if its going to be FI or not. and how many of them they will release.

Yes

http://nativenotes.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/k447king-i-have-a-dream-posters.jpg


Didn't that guy get shot?

:P

wow... I dont even know what to say...

I see no problem here. It's the end of it's life....some things can't live forever. I'd rather them not make more RX-8 and waste the money while they sit on a lot. They should instead work on the 16x.

yes sir

There is even talk that the NeeSSAN 370Z is about to retire, due to poor sales..

so i could have a first year, and last year.. sweet.. kinda kills my buy a 09 and stick a 04 diff in it thought train.. sell the ms3..

have just one car! that is just silly.. :)

beers :beer:

I see no problem here. It's the end of it's life....some things can't live forever. I'd rather them not make more RX-8 and waste the money while they sit on a lot. They should instead work on the 16x.

AMEN brother.......... It's time to move on here, and have Mazda concentrate on the 16x or next RX machine.

The RX8 had a great run but it has clearly reached the end of it's line.

I got faith that Mazda will deliver a great sports car. But that can't happened while the 8 is still around.

There is even talk that the NeeSSAN 370Z is about to retire, due to poor sales..

There's a lot of chatter about this on the 370 board. Seems like the 370 might be the end of the line for the Z car. Going forward I think companies are going to have to focus more on lighter sportscars with smaller engines/less power.

:sadwavey: I'll keep mine for a long long time though.

There's a lot of chatter about this on the 370 board. Seems like the 370 might be the end of the line for the Z car. Going forward I think companies are going to have to focus more on lighter sportscars with smaller engines/less power.

Had a Quick look at 'a' 370Z Forum......
Boy, they are still having issues going back to the 350Z...

Like Long Block replacements, due to excessive Oil Consumption, then a guy says a quart is normal for 3000 miles use ...I use that much with my RX-8!..

5Th gear issues, one guy on his 4th transmission!!..

As far as the 370Z sales go, I think I have seen one in my town, seen more Series II RX-8's than 370Z's.

You have to remember 370Z in Australia are almost $20,000 more than the S2 RX-8.

i really hope they dont release that ugly as sin rx-9 concept. it looks terrible. what they need to do is try to redesign a new car. keeping obviously the 13b 50/50 weight and lsd. OR make a turbo version of the rx8!!!! why havent they done that yet!!???

mazda hasnt shown any concept of an rx-9. the only thing you have seen is artists conceptions from various magazines own artists.

The only good z was a 300zx... the 350's and 370's fold under pressure.

If you using it as a DD you have no problems, but any type of FI everything goes pop.

Back to topic Anyone have any info on the 16x?

Another great feature of the 370Z (similar issues happened with the 350Z and C&D):

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q2/z_meets_wall_we_investigate_why_the_nismo_z_s_brak es_failed_at_lightning_lap-feature

I am keeping my Rx-8, Its too good of an car to let go.

As far the Z, its a shame how it lost its sporting ways. The '90's were truly the best years for the Z cars. That VQ motor is powerful for the 350 and the 370Z but it consumes more oil than any rotary I know of. When I had my '02 Maxima with the Vq35 I would go through 2 and a half quarts a month , compared to 1 quart or 3/4 of a quart for my Rx-8. And I was doing the same commute that I am doing today , 55 miles one way.

People, press,and reviewers always look at rotaries as oil hogs, they fail to look at the Vq for what its worth, that motor has a serious thirst for oil.

The reviews have all complained of the harshness, noise, and vibration of the VQ engine in the 370Z at high RPM. Angus Makenzie (sp?) at Motor Trend even went so far as to call it something like, "absolutely unacceptable" in a modern car, and it was alone enough of a reason for him to not buy one.

we had one hell of a run. :sadwavey:

All things must pass. At least it was good while it lasted. I commend Mazda for the wonderful car that is the RX-8.

I am very curious about the next generation RX car. With the ever increasing fuel efficiency requirements, I am doubtful that the 16X powered car will have FI. Then again, it's difficult to determine what will be possible with the pseudo-direct injection they're using. My only concern is that if they are in fact making another RX-7, people will be expecting it to be better than the FD in just about every way. So, will the be able to match to performance of the FD with an N/A 16X? Here's to hoping!

I don't think the next RX car will have to be "better" than the FD (not sure how you would even judge "better," really). It just has to offer good performance at a reasonable price with sexy looks. One of the reasons the FD went away was that it was too expensive. This one will likely be reasonably priced, light, and lots of fun to drive just like the RX-8 and MX-5, but hopefully even lighter than the RX-8. It won't need to have FI if it makes 260+ hp, more torque than the RENESIS, and the car weighs well under 3000 lbs. (maybe 2800 lbs.?).

26xx will be the weight

I was saying that if the next RX car was an RX-7, then it would have to perform better than the FD. Name a single sports car that didn't have higher performance than the model it replaced. I personally think it would be awesome for Mazda to have twins - the MX-5 and an RX-5 (different looks, and certainly a hard top for the RX), as well as keeping the RX-8, but offering an MX-8 for all the people who have no business driving a rotary powered car.

^Too much overlapping

^Too much overlapping

Overlapping is single handedly how Nissan gained so much market share in the past 5 years. *Excluding this year which is all thanks to our friends at Toyota.:icon_tup:

Nissan is also HUGE compared to Mazda. Then again, I am not a business person at at all*

It just seems like the Mazda 3 and 6 are the BIGGEST thing saving Mazda in this time of the economy, while having four vehicles, with 2 unique ideas *the RX8/MX8 and MX5/RX5*....it would hurt them more than help.

An observation, not a fact.

maybe they'll send off the RX-8 in grand fashion and build a super awesome R4 Spirit R uber final efini X-Men edition RX-8. if they do i may pick one up when they are on still on the lot in 2012, lol

Nissan is also HUGE compared to Mazda. Then again, I am not a business person at at all*

It just seems like the Mazda 3 and 6 are the BIGGEST thing saving Mazda in this time of the economy, while having four vehicles, with 2 unique ideas *the RX8/MX8 and MX5/RX5*....it would hurt them more than help.

An observation, not a fact.

You are correct mate...

Soon to be Mazda USA 2,3,5 and 6.. Always has been their bread and butter cars..

You should of had the Mazda 2 years ago..

Nissan Australia has Lost Market share to Mazda..4.8 to 8%..

Here the Mazda 3 now outsells the Toyota Corolla...who said the smiley face will not work?

The Mazda 2 is above Yaris now, only the Getz (Hyundai i thing) is in front.

RX and MX have never been REAL Volume sellers for Mazda and they are not meant to be...and it is also due to capacity.

Hofu plants make the 3 and 6...24/7
Hiroshima makes everything else (except Mazda's Suzuki made micros)
Hiroshima (Ujina) plant is the Oldest and less "high tech" when compared to Hofu.

maybe they'll send off the RX-8 in grand fashion and build a super awesome R4 Spirit R uber final efini X-Men edition RX-8. if they do i may pick one up when they are on still on the lot in 2012, lol

Don't be surprised that they won't...The chances are very real for a send off model, but for JDM only in about 18 months.

IMO the 8 will still be made for some time...like the 7.

Remember, Mazda have never really stopped making rotaries for 40 years.;)

great.. 3 years to save money for the next rotary *fingers crossed*

Great handling only takes you so far, and while this car handles excpetionally well it's really underpowered compared to it's competition. Really the only people who are willing to overlook this are people who track the car or those who just like the rotary. The problem is that these people represent the smallest portion of the car buying market.

That's not entirely true. Look at all the people who buy the MX-5 even though it's slower than the RX-8. Regardless, my point was that in a light car (26## lbs. would be fantastic), you don't need FI or huge power and torque numbers. There is no need for FI if the new RX car makes what they're saying the 1.6L will be able to make. The RX-8 is not much slower than the OEM turbo FD RX-7, and it's chassis is better.

So is 2011 the last year for the 8 in the States or globally? I would think that if this is globally, Mazda might do a little more for the swansong. However if this is just a US thing, I'll be happy if we get a badge...

So is 2011 the last year for the 8 in the States or globally? I would think that if this is globally, Mazda might do a little more for the swansong. However if this is just a US thing, I'll be happy if we get a badge...

I'd bet money its "everywhere but Japan.." remember the FD crapped out in 1995 here but they kept selling it until 2003 in Japan.

I'm guessing that Mazda will continue to sell special edition 8's in Japan as they continue to tinker with the 16x. When they stop selling ANY rotary in Japan its either new model time, or end of the line for the rotary.

As far as I know there has been NO official announcement that the 8 is finishing..

Yes..In Europe due to Euro 5 Emissions.
Yes. In USA, but not confirmed officially...Charlie might find out from JB.

No News from Australia YET...
No News from Japan (Mazda) yet where the 8 is made.

yeah its definite in the states that 2011 is the last MY. I am assuming that means Canada as well but ya never know.

I have heard nothing about anywhere else besides Europe and US. Russia/Middle East/SA?AUS /Japan/Singapore are still going forward as far as we know.

wow - just wow

such a great chassis to see go away...

there's no source

Mazda South Africa stopped importing the 8 long before the Series 1 finished according to Phillip (Black SA RX-8 in South Africa with many failed Bridge Ported RENESIS Engines).

Had a quick Look Around the WORRLD (Troll)

Looks like Thailand, China No Longer Imports..

Philippines Don't (Not sure if they ever have?)

LEBANON,Bahrain, Saudi Arabia,Kuwait,Israel,UAE,Columbia,Ecuador,Mexico,V ENEZUELA... Don't.

Chile, PUERTO RICO,Malaysia,Taiwan,Indonesia,Hong Kong ..DOES

And of course Europe is now OUT..

It's about time! I'm sick of seeing people saying year after year that the car is not going to be made anymore. Just get it over with so the threads stop. Let the rotary die already. ;)

But you're a Rotary god and gods can't die. ;)

hahaha agreed mate ^^

It's about time! I'm sick of seeing people saying year after year that the car is not going to be made anymore. Just get it over with so the threads stop. Let the rotary die already. ;)

Ill drink to that :)

wow - just wow

such a great chassis to see go away...

The chassis may not be going away. I seem to recall one article about the supposed upcoming RX car likely being based on the same chassis, perhaps with minor tweaks.

I don't see this as being particularly surprising or all that bad. The RX-8 had a long run, and as long as it's replaced by another RX car of some kind without a huge delay, it's all good. And the chassis will continue to live on in the MX-5, regardless. I don't want to see the rotary engine go away, of course, but at least the chassis should be alive and well and continue on and be updated.

It's about time! I'm sick of seeing people saying year after year that the car is not going to be made anymore. Just get it over with so the threads stop. Let the rotary die already.

Hydrogen is the answer to Wankel Rotary Combustion Engine future.

Don't forget Mazda has a few 1000 test Rx-8 RE hydrogen already on the road. They are Zero Emissions and have nice sound when run on hydrogen.

Hybrids electric are lame and waste more rare earths in the battery. Hydrogen is the way to go.

Renesis RE at a trade show.:rock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2OrXxVKRnI

uh oh you just poked the sleeping RG

hydrogen is a poor choice for internal combustion. there are so many reasons hydrogen will never get big its not even funny

Look out! An H2 troll!!

jk ;)

Well, it lasted twice as long as the FD.

hydrogen is a poor choice for internal combustion. there are so many reasons hydrogen will never get big its not even funny

yeah like no one will build the infrastructure right?


http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20100512/NEWS01/5120356/-1/localnewsfront


http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2010/05/hawaii-hydrogen-1.jpg

Hawai'i's race to adopt green-energy automobiles picked up speed yesterday with the announcement of a collaboration between The Gas Co. and General Motors Corp. for vehicles powered by hydrogen.

The companies agreed to work in concert, with The Gas Co. pledging to provide the fueling network for the cars, and GM saying it may send dozens of its hydrogen fuel-cell cars here.

"We're not doing this to show what the technology can do," said Charlie Freese, executive director of GM's global fuel cell activities. GM hopes to start commercial production of hydrogen fuel cell cars in the next five years.

"We want to make it part of growth. We want it to be a beginning."

The partnership was the latest in a series of Hawai'i announcements this year related to the ramping up of vehicles using renewable sources of power.

Hawai'i is becoming one of the leaders nationally in alternative fuel vehicles, with Nissan announcing that its much-anticipated electric car, the Leaf, will be sold here starting early next year and South Korean automaker CT&T saying it wants to build a $200 million electric-car assembly plant here.

Hawai'i, as the most oil-dependent state in the nation, has announced an ambitious plan to wean itself off of petroleum-based energy, including electrical generation and transportation needs. About one-third of the petroleum consumed here goes to ground transportation, according to the state.
Pumping hydrogen

Gov. Linda Lingle has set a goal of getting 70 percent of the state's energy from clean sources in the next generation and has directed her administration to encourage development of renewable energy sources.

The Gas Co.-GM announcement marks the first significant hydrogen-fuel effort aimed at consumers in the state. GM said Hawai'i presents an unusual situation for its hydrogen cars because a network of fueling stations can easily be developed.

There has been a chicken-and-egg dilemma to the advent of hydrogen-powered vehicles, because unlike electric cars that can be plugged in, a network of service stations where people can gas up with hydrogen is needed.

Drivers won't buy the cars without the fueling stations available and fueling stations won't be built without the cars being sold.

"The goal here is to provide an attractive place for hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles and other fuel cell technology," said Jeffrey Kissel, Gas Co. president and chief executive officer.

The utility already makes hydrogen in producing synthetic natural gas and has a 1,000 miles of pipeline to deliver the gas to customers. It proposes to eventually hook up as many as 25 stations with equipment that can separate hydrogen from the synthetic natural gas.

The hydrogen would be offered in pumps that look much like regular gasoline pumps but have high-pressure hose hook-ups. GM currently has 119 Chevrolet Equinox SUVs under its Project Driveway program that have been outfitted with three tanks for holding the compressed hydrogen, and a fuel cell stack where the fuel is turned into electricity to power an electric motor.

While hydrogen can be burned in internal combustion engines, in the fuel-cell configuration it has no greenhouse gas emissions.
Military already in

Freese declined to say how many of the Equinox SUVs will be sent here, placing the number between five and 50. Already one has been in use around the state, having been brought here in March for the First Hawaiian International Auto Show.

The SUV isn't the first hydrogen-powered vehicle in the state — at least 15 are in use by the military here, including buses, vans and SUVs. The vehicles fill up at a station at Hickam Air Force Base that uses solar power (and soon wind power) to produce hydrogen.

"I'm convinced that hydrogen is the future," said Tom Quinn, who as director of the Hawaii Center for Advanced Transportation Technologies is involved in the Hickam project.

"Fuel cells still have a little way to go in development but they're already being used in buses by transit agencies."

Quinn said other military hydrogen refueling stations are planned for Schofield Barracks and Marine Corps Base Hawaii in Kāne'ohe. He said hydrogen cars have the ability to be refueled in a few minutes, while electric cars may need to be plugged in for hours.

Still, it remains to be seen how hydrogen fuel-cell cars are adopted by drivers, because the technology is still said to be a bit more expensive than regular vehicles. GM said it has invested more than $1.5 billion in fuel cell transportation in the last 15 years and is developing a fuel cell system that could be ready for commercialization in 2015.
Fuel Options

Quinn sees the cost coming down as manufacturers like GM and Toyota winnow down the amount of expensive precious metals needed in the fuel cells, along with cutting other costs.

"It's like any new technology," said Quinn. "Volume production will bring those costs down."

The Gas Co. also is pledging hydrogen prices that will be comparable on a per-mile basis with gasoline.

Moreover, there is a range of options being discussed for Hawai'i drivers when it comes to alternative fuels.

Ted Peck, state energy administrator, said someone who only needs a light-duty vehicle may choose something like CT&T's E-Zone mini-car, which has a top speed of 40 mph and range of 40 to 80 miles, depending on the battery type.

Others might opt for something like the Nissan Leaf if they want to drive on the highway and drive less than 100 miles on outings.

The weight of batteries may make using pure electric power difficult for big trucks or buses, so hydrogen may be the option for people wanting light, medium or heavy vehicles, Peck said. There also will be vehicles that burn biodiesel in internal combustion engines, he said.

"What we're providing are options," said Peck, who also is working on getting hydrogen-powered buses for use at Volcanoes National Park.

"People can do what works for them."

The plan also dovetails with Peck's efforts to foster renewable energy development. Some people see surplus electricity generated by proposed windfarms in the early morning being used to produce hydrogen.

GM is seeing the collaboration with The Gas Co. as the start of a hydrogen fueling infrastructure that could support tens of thousands of fuel cell vehicles eventually.

It said it hopes to get more support for the endeavor from state and government policymakers. Already, U.S. Sen. Daniel Inouye has signaled his interest.

"Every step to reduce our dependency on foreign oil is a move forward," said Inouye.

Well, it lasted twice as long as the FD.

Yea it was a great run. Always a chance they can bring back another Rx-8. Just remember the feelings of all the Fd's demise.

Look out! An H2 troll!!

jk ;)

Actually im a great guy and from the Rx-7 club. I just sold my 84 and purchased an 04 RX-8. And it's really a bad move to just attack someone you dont' know. Really I am curious to see your resume cause mine is like a phone book. Now I have actual experiance engineering in the automotive and military environment so I am serious about hydrogen. Do you want to go playground or pro. You choose dude.... I can do both.. I been around since 300 baud days.


Vash.,.

^ dude calm down, he said "jk" and even put up a winky face.

yeah lets take that back a notch Vash you seem to have missed the

jk ;) that he wrote to tell you he was kidding. RG is famously against hydrogen thats why i said the thing about poking and j tso made the joke about "hydrogen troll"

I'm famously in favor of Hydrogen. So RG and I have a running sort of discussion/ friendly argument that we carry out on the board. all in the best of humor.

yeah like no one will build the infrastructure right?


all proposal. and i'm not saying somewhere wont try it, and perhaps even do well wih it. but a lot of areas in other regions will be sparse for infrastructure. americans are too damn spoiled, we need instant gratification. it will never catch on big because the infrastructure isnt there. and how much of the majorly populated areas of the country will be able to afford putting up the infrastructure first, even with government support?

All good things must come to an end. The RX-8 has a run from 2004 to 2011. that's double that of the previous gen rx-7. That says alot about it if you think about it. Consumers vote with their wallet at the end of the day.
I plan to keep mine for some time especially I have the engine core warranty till 2014! BTW, still going strong with the original engine. Car still drives like a dream.

All good things must come to an end. The RX-8 has a run from 2004 to 2011. that's double that of the previous gen rx-7. That says alot about it if you think about it. Consumers vote with their wallet at the end of the day.
I plan to keep mine for some time especially I have the engine core warranty till 2014! BTW, still going strong with the original engine. Car still drives like a dream.

No. The previous rx7 ran from 1992 to 2002.

No. The previous rx7 ran from 1992 to 2002.

North America baby. North America.

we had one hell of a run. :sadwavey:

amen !

I heard that the rotary running on hydrogen produced significantly lower numbers in terms of torque and horsepower.

If so, that sucks.

I heard that the rotary running on hydrogen produced significantly lower numbers in terms of torque and horsepower.

If so, that sucks.

yes, that's true. The hydrogen RX-8 from a few years ago makes a little over 100 hp. I don't know about the more recent Premacy,

:rollingla sorry guys, don't want to sound like a noob... but why not turbo the hydrogen...:wiggle:

I heard that the rotary running on hydrogen produced significantly lower numbers in terms of torque and horsepower.

If so, that sucks.

AFAIK, All internal Combustion Engines suffer in the same way with Hydrogen, around a 50% drop in HP..

AFAIK, All internal Combustion Engines suffer in the same way with Hydrogen, around a 50% drop in HP..

piston engines loses a lot more than rotaries.

BMW stopped the research with piston engines, will continue w/ fuel cells.
at today the work with hydrogen for transportation is 100% with fuel cells , Mazda is the the only one that is working with an ICE engine.

This has, in all honesty, been long overdue IMO. With the market where it is today, they just can't expect somone to pay $30K+ for a car that gets 17MPG and makes as much TQ as a kia forte (which mind you, costs half as much with 2x the MPG). Let alone the fact that the car's biggest gripe...the engine...has somehow managed to remain unchanged for almost 7 years while they continued to change almost everything around it.

Don't get me wrong, I myself owned an RX-8 for almost 2 years and did still enjoy it, but Mazda had to see this coming. Yeah CAFE is making it dang near impossible to come out with another rotary, but if that is really their biggest problem, then throwing in the towel might not be a bad idea.

I figured sales were low, but I was still shocked to see July's issue of MotorTrend that the RX-8 sold only 428 RX's in the first 4 months of the year. Most companies wouldn't even bother with a model that sells less then 1300 a year. Unless it's an exotic.

This has, in all honesty, been long overdue IMO. With the market where it is today, they just can't expect somone to pay $30K+ for a car that gets 17MPG and makes as much TQ as a kia forte (which mind you, costs half as much with 2x the MPG). Let alone the fact that the car's biggest gripe...the engine...has somehow managed to remain unchanged for almost 7 years while they continued to change almost everything around it.



So how is your new Kia working out for you? :rolleyes:

Wouldn't know...however my 2010 MS3 has worked out great for more then $8K under the 8's price. And the mileage? Also over 30MPG hwy in my findings. That 280 lb/ft TQ will do I suppose.

If you couldn't tell, the power comparison was simply showing that you'd have more trouble finding cars that have less TQ then those with more. Yeah yeah yeah it's just the nature of the rotary...I know. This all just simply leads into my intial statement that it's long overdue. That's all.

/\ The 8 is sold in other countries ...not just the USA.
I am shocked they sell as many as they do, as the 8 is never advertised...because they don't get a return.

the engine...has somehow managed to remain unchanged for almost 7 years while they continued to change almost everything around it.

There has been development costs with the Series II improvements and as many have said before, Mazda got EVERYTHING they could out of the 13B, it has been around for over 30 years @1308cc.

For them to Produce a "larger" engine like the 16X with no improvement in MPG would be a huge mistake, yes I know that DI and other mods are an option, BUT, the higher the displacement of ANY rotary the more fuel it uses.

And when was "CAFE" first thought of??, years after the 8 was introduced.

Mazda are not the ONLY maker struggling with US and Europe Fuel and Emission regulations made by some "Meat Head" politician or bureaucrat who knows next to Nothing about engineering or motor cars.

Frankly, IF we see any new Rotary IMO it will still be a 13B RENESIS in a lighter body.:)

BTW, Mazda Banger MZR Engine has been around for Just as long as the RENESIS with little change, the only thing is capacity (cc).

BTW, Mazda Banger MZR Engine has been around for Just as long as the RENESIS with little change, the only thing is capacity (cc).

touche'. However, the MZR also started out with power levels well above the competition at the time. As a good 5 years have rolled by since it's release (late '05 for the MS6), it is, at worst, starting to middle when compared with the competition out there in terms of power. It's not near as noticable when the power blends in with the competition as opposed to bottoming out. No better example of this then how Ford FINALLY dumped that unbelievably redudant 4.0 block after 40 years.

However, just as you said...the 13B has remained reletively unchanged for over 30 years sans the side ports and some fine tuning. And also, like you said, bigger displacement will create almost more problems then it solves. It would seem that the rotary engine in theory was only a means to an end before it even got started. It's potential was capped early on, and it's options remain very strained.

I get the feeling that people think i'm attacking the car and thinking it is just aweful when it's quite the contrary. It had a good run and it was fun to own for a short while but returning to my original thoughts couldn't be truer...it's just not a surprise and it's still seeming a lil overdue.

Kudos to Mazda for toying around with it, but without some major advacements that no one has aparently stumbled across, its just not forward motion. the 16X must be hitting some brick walls itself, as it was mentioned then hushed up for years since.

I hope they could make furai into production car. if so, thats gonna be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!