I am just about half way through the testing of 'Zoomers Fuel Computer mod, and I want to report how it's going , so far....

First, let me state that I had never met 'Canzoomer' before I bought my shiny gas cap from him a few weeks back, and that is the only business dealing we have ever had.

But who could resist when he offered to let me test one of his Mods?..... I had already read his proposal to reduce fuel back to optimum above 7000 rpm, and wanted to see how that would work in practice.

Average gas mileage for the period has been around 18/19 US, (22/23 UK, 12.3 litres per 100k) including some full bore runs, lots of revs, (and more than a few 'Borla flames!') bearing in mind that my mileage has always been right around these figures, lots of highway, so I would say I am not seeing ANY change in fuel consumption.

I was certainly not decided on buying one, I was really only interested in the mod to return my car to the 'original design/JDM' spec, and wasn't too interested in using the new peak power, since it would be at the highest revs, where I rarely go, and only useful for extreme acceleration, or dyno runs.

The night 'Zoomer and his techs installed the equipment is one that will not soon be forgotten -They put an Air/Fuel test meter bung in the exhaust and then slipped the computer mod into the wiring harness (there is a scary amount of wires going to the stock ECU!) then we each test drove both the cars, to see if the Borla would affect the mixture or the engine behavior.

Any RX-8 pilot knows the slight hesitation of the 'runner changeover' during full throttle, at around 4000 rpm, then again just above 6000, and WITH the mod these are still present, HOWEVER, right after the first dip, as the engine approaches 5k, the car LEAPS forward as it never has before, then 6k, 7k, 8k, BUZZER!, all follow REAL quick!

It is like night and day from 5000 up!

This I did NOT expect....I was ready for the acceleration to be still strong above 7000, to not go limp as it approached redline, but instead, the entire second half of the rev range was transformed. Not even like a V-TEC peak, more of a step change from there on up. During full throttle runs in third gear, the tires where breaking loose every time we hit that '5K leap'! Obviously this was partly due to the cold road, but I never had to back off the throttle at 5000, going uphill, before......

I am over fifty, a previous rotary owner, and not easily impressed, but I felt recent new forum member 'AZIZA K' said it best......."Like OMG this is SO amazing!!!!!"

I haven't yet seen a dyno run or been told how much more power there is, and as I said, peak horsepower at the top of paper charts is not worth squat to me, but the immense mid-range push I experienced is EXACTLY where, and what, was needed.

I don't know the extent of the changes they did with the new fuel computer (and if I ask, I may go missing!) but I will be looking for some assurances that THESE settings will be in the production version, because I will definitely be installing this, and I want it just like this tester!

THIS is the car I bought and paid for!

THIS is the way it should have been from day-one!

It is going to be SO painful to return the test rig......

S

Sounds really promising , canzoomer i am waiting allbeit not very patiently.

Very good news indeed.

How is the drivabilty so far?

Vince

.

StealthTL took me for a ride in his modded 8 tonight! What a difference!! The car is a beast. Once it hits the 5000rpm mark your head snaps back and you are flying. It feels stonger than VTEC machines that I've been in (including the S2000). It's almost turbo-like. Thanks for the ride Doc. I will definitely be ordering one. This is the now the car that I expected and paid for.

hopefully these mod chips will not harm our engines in the long run, but I am very interested in purchasing one :) dynos will be greaty appreciated

...now, who was it that said it was fixable anyways... hmm???

Mo-dawg |20><0|2z !! and Stealth Pounds of Torque man is the luckiest bastard on earth right now... *bright green tear of unbelievable jealousy*

*Sigh*

IMagine me sitting over here bouncing up and down saying "I want it, I want it!" a few thousand times.

Thats me for the next 4 weeks :(

good work cz ... and now let this be my christmas present... any idea when it will be ready for shipment?

Man, I can't wait to hear from the turbo econo-box crowd on this deveopment. Mr. WRX and all the other haters will really have a reason to hate the RX8.

This sounds like a great add on. But what IF AND WHEN mazda comes out with a new upgrade/program for the ECU. Since carzoomers piggybacks on the stock one, would it work with a different stock chip?

My terminology my be wrong so here is an example. Say I have the mod, have to take the car in for service and remove the mod before going in. Then say the serivce dept goes ahead and upgrades/reflash my stock chip. Will the mod still work when put back on?

Thanks,

Canzoomer said in an earlier post that his company may offer updates and reflashes if Mazda does make a change. I'm not sure if that is still an option or his intent though...

This sounds GREAT! As always, I remain very interested in Canzoomer's mod.

I'm wondering, though, since the tires are chirping so much easier now, does this mod create a car that's a little more difficult to handle? Does the DSC still do a good job of keeping it in line with this mod?

Thanks canzoomer for all your work and thanks to StealthTL for this report!

Great report. Thanks Stealth dude. This is definitely something I'm getting when its available. Looks like CanZoomer's going to recoup his R&D costs with this one for sure.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
This sounds like a great add on. But what IF AND WHEN mazda comes out with a new upgrade/program for the ECU. Since carzoomers piggybacks on the stock one, would it work with a different stock chip?

My terminology my be wrong so here is an example. Say I have the mod, have to take the car in for service and remove the mod before going in. Then say the serivce dept goes ahead and upgrades/reflash my stock chip. Will the mod still work when put back on?

Thanks, Canzoomer's ECU piggyback augments the stock ECU on the car, basically intercepting A/F info and sending out it's own info instead of the ECU. At least that's my undertanding. So, if you did remove the Canzoomer piggyback and take you car in to the dealer, and they did a reflash of the ECU, you can just put the piggyback device back on when done. It will still perform the same function. It might not be as effective if the ECU reflash was a A/F fix, but it would still work.

Hope this helps.

Stealth,

Are we talking the Stage 1 or Stage 2 here?

-Mr. Wigggles

Heh, " (there is a scary amount of wires going to the stock ECU!)". Try building the cables! I did most of the prototype cables, and my eyes are still crossed ;) . Glad you like it.

I'll put some words into Canzoomers mouth, as he's rather busy, as usual. There are still a few "i"s to dot, and "t"s to cross, but real soon now. The production parts are due soon.

I may have to sell my 3rd gen and get me an RX-8!

Thanks for doing all that soldering Mazdafriend, I owe you a beer!

This is the Stage one mod, fits between the ECU and its wiring harness, no ignition timing changes and no catalyst replacement.

Compaddict, I am not sure what you mean when you ask about 'drivability' - we were really thrashing it to find the differences, and the uphill 'full throttle' third gear runs (DSC/TC off) were getting pretty hairy on the frosty blacktop, losing traction as it passed the runner lag point, then came on hard at 5k/6k. I am a pathetic driver , so rather than handle it, I always chose to back off, but I know that a better pilot would have just yelled "WOOHOO!" and kept his foot in it!

Like I said, I was expecting a useless top end peak of power, but this 'leap' in the midrange was awesome....

S

Originally posted by MrWigggles
Stealth,

Are we talking the Stage 1 or Stage 2 here?

-Mr. Wigggles
Answering for Stealth (AKA The doctor) this is Stage1.
Fuel/air only, no ignition tune, mild temperatures.

We are running some fuel/air and temperature logs tomorrorw just to double check what it is doing and then as long as it is still working as designed within these two parameters, we are done, and starting to pack and go.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
This sounds like a great add on. But what IF AND WHEN mazda comes out with a new upgrade/program for the ECU. Since carzoomers piggybacks on the stock one, would it work with a different stock chip?

My terminology my be wrong so here is an example. Say I have the mod, have to take the car in for service and remove the mod before going in. Then say the serivce dept goes ahead and upgrades/reflash my stock chip. Will the mod still work when put back on?

Thanks,
It should, as we are simply over-riding the stock fuel/air mixes.
IF Mazda does issue a new flash, I would still want to test it just to be safe and sure.
There is always the possibility that they add a whole big bunch of advance, and *maybe* with a leaner mix it *might* be more adventurous than I would want to use..

This is one of those classic predicting the future scenarios.
I can not give a final answer until I see it ( IF we see it of course!)

Originally posted by bunglega
Canzoomer said in an earlier post that his company may offer updates and reflashes if Mazda does make a change. I'm not sure if that is still an option or his intent though...
Reflashing ( actually we will physically replace the ROM chip as it is locked) will always be possible.

The cost will be pretty minimal ( the part is cheap) and the labour pretty small too.

I have not worked it out exactly yet, but I am pretty sure $100 (or maybe less) would cover it.

Maurice

It has been said that at 15000km the ECU improves the MPG by around 10% and there will be also an increase in power , ?.
If this is the case , how do you think it will effect your stage 1 modification??
At 1500km i have been told that the ECU will allow the rx8 to run leaner and with more power .( is this a concern to your modification s)

michael

Originally posted by Lock & Load
It has been said that at 15000km the ECU improves the MPG by around 10% and there will be also an increase in power , ?.
I think that is total BS from what I have noticed.

Originally posted by brothervoodoo
I think that is total BS from what I have noticed.

Brother voodo

The information on the ECU was given to me by mazda tecknical support teck with over 20 years experience with rotaries currently racing his own rx7 and working for mazda head office .

He has no vested interest in telling any B/S .

michael

Brother Voodoo
I was bitching at my dealer about my gas mileage. I am getting 15-16 Highway 13-14 cities. He called Mazda Technical line he said after 15,000 miles the ECU go into a different mode, and changes the fuel maps for a 10%-15% increase in mpg and performance.( posted by eclpso under , some good news)


Personally i have only travelled 10600 km on my ride , so i cant tell if information is correct , but this infor mation is being told also by your mazda people in U.S .

michael

Michael,

Agreed, I've averaged 14.6 MPG over 7,500 miles on 85% city driving. I haven't seen any gain over time and the EPA numbers stated for the US market seem off. I heard a lot of discussion about MPG improving over time, I personally haven't experienced it. 15,000 miles seems like a long time for it to start kicking over. I recall much earlier discussions when we didn't now mazda reflashed the PCM/ECU because of catalytic regulations and everybody was saying, oh it will "kick-over" at 2,000, then 4,000 then 6,000, etc, etc.. Just sounds like the same old story to me. :)

Originally posted by Lock & Load
Maurice

It has been said that at 15000km the ECU improves the MPG by around 10% and there will be also an increase in power , ?.
If this is the case , how do you think it will effect your stage 1 modification??
At 1500km i have been told that the ECU will allow the rx8 to run leaner and with more power .( is this a concern to your modification s)

michael
I have heard no real source of that, so reference would be good!

The RX-7 3rd Gen models DID have a 20,000 mile switch, but that is the only one we have seen so far.

Where did you see this for the RX-8 ??

I heard same thing from a tech at mazda.Slight mix change at 15k

i still don't understand why mazda would make an ECU that would give us LESS power and LESS gas mileage until 15,000km unless they could give us that straight from 0 km on the odometer. unless there is an underlying reason (something about the rensis perhaps?) i still won't believe that the ECU is going to change at 15,000km and start giving me more power and better gas mileage.

not to dismiss this information as false just yet, but that sounds like exactly what i would say if alot of my customers were complaining about performance and fuel economy. my 2 pennies.

You said you used only the usual amount of gas, but, Stealth, if you were driving hard and used the usual amount of gasoline, that would mean thet the gas mileage was better?
felix

Originally posted by Felix W.
You said you used only the usual amount of gas, but, Stealth, if you were driving hard and used the usual amount of gasoline, that would mean thet the gas mileage was better?
felix
Until we get a few tankfuls under our belts it will be very hard to say for sure.
We set this map up to be cheap on gas up to 5,000rpm, and then make power above that.
I can say that it should not use more fuel, but I am not sure what savings there will be until we get enough data over time.

The 2nd gen RX-7's also had a 20000 mile switch. Actually it was a seperate wheel in the odometer since it was not digital back then. This wheel was hidden out of sight behind the cluster but you can see it if you take the instrument cluster out. It was only in that car so that if anyone rolled back the odometer below 20000 miles, the 20000 mile switch would be able to stay at this number. Back then it only kept a record of any tampering that rolled back the odometer this far. It didn't do anything tho the cars tuning whatsoever. I'm not sure if this was the case on the 3rd gen RX-7. That car always had full power even from the factory. Mazda used to have dedicated rooms full of engines on engine dynos getting broken in properly before they were installed in the cars. They did this because they knew that people would just rag on them from the very start. That was a smart move on their part. I have not seen any info about Mazda breaking in the Renesis before it gets installed in the cars. It would make sense for them to back off the power or add a lower rev limiter for a certain number of miles but 15000 miles seems overly excessive and I am very inclined to cry bs on this information. The guy may be reputable but if the person that told it to him is wrong then obviously he will be too. I'll believe it when I see it.

Canzoomer: You mention that the map is set ot be miser under 5K. Has the power curve under 5K been affected? Has the power low down been sacrificed for economy? The last I had heard about this you where just doing an overall optimized map. I really dont want to lose power under 5K since this is where I am most of the time in traffic.

Originally posted by Genom
Canzoomer: You mention that the map is set ot be miser under 5K. Has the power curve under 5K been affected? Has the power low down been sacrificed for economy? The last I had heard about this you where just doing an overall optimized map. I really dont want to lose power under 5K since this is where I am most of the time in traffic.

No, not really. Mazda had made that area pretty lean to start with, and we kept with that theme.
What we did mainly affects the range after the secondary intake runner section opens. We give it a couple of hundred rpm for the airflow to stabilise, then we hit the tune fairly hard.

It takes this smooth stabilized air flow and adds the gain fairly suddenly, ramping on to full power in about 200rpm.

this gives a "turbo like" rush at 5,000, and steady power climbing to 8500.

We wanted to see highway speeds staying economical, and high rpm range full power levels.
It turned out to be possible to bring that power range down lower than stock high ouput rpm zone.

That means, for example, when on the highway at 65mph in 6th gear, you can drop one gear into 5th to get into full power range, instead of having to drop to 4th, as in a stock RX-8.

Making that 6 to 4 shift is never comfortable, and screaming the revs so high is also harsh.

Another example is 3rd gear at 35mph, where the same range comes into play.

One can still do regular driving at normal economical style, while having the usable power immediately at hand.

i'm just a little curious, canzoomer...

when you say "we give it a couple of hundred rpm for the airflow to stabilise"... does this produce a noticeable discontinuity. like if that power were there assuming that airflow was already stable for that few hundred rpm, would that difference be significant at all?

Why can't we get some before and after G-tech graphs?

G-tech doesn't calculate HP correct but it can output acceleration in g's. I would like to see the difference between stock and modified.

10% more g's equals 10% more torque equals 10% more HP at any particular RPM.

-Mr. Wigggles

zoomer: Cool. Thanks. Thats what I figureed but I wanted to re-assure myself.

And yeah, I think most people are just dying to see some sort of plot/video/wav of the car with the unit installed. I hope them web pages are coming up soon!

I am especialy antsy now cause my fiance is giving me the Borla for x-mas :D

That explains a lot....

'Zoomers point about the shift points explains why I have been in 3rd and 4th so much, the power band has definitely widened. Stock, you never get over 7500 because it gets weak - there is no point going higher, and you need to shift up to keep accelerating.

Gears 3 & 4 are now SO useful, and the whole region from 5k to 9k is in play! I may never use 5th or 6th again!

I can't WAIT to see some plots, the curve must look radically different.

Sorry for not being more active with replies, I've been out driving......

S

i need 5 bills stat.

Well, I could send you my electric, gas, water, cable, and trash bills... :D

Ohhh!

That's funny.

Vince

but first i'd have to pay my phone bill, car payment, credit card payment first ;)

how i wish i could dump an endless supply of money into my 8.........ina perfect world maybe.

I just wanna say first that Stealth...you're a vicious, rotten bastard; I was just fine with my 8, now I want this mod you fiend! :D

I also noticed that many posts are making the error of transposing 15,000km to 15,000 MILES for the ECU change Mazda tech is talking about. The conversion to miles from 15,000km is actually 9,321 miles so many of us early buyers should be nearing that point real soon (some are already there probably). I have 7,600 miles on mine so sometime near the end of January with my normal driving routine, I should hit the magic mile number. I'll report any noticable change.

I recall reading another thread somewhere that this mod cuts the life of the catalytic converter in half? Does this mean worse emissions or just a shorter cat life?

WHAT'S GOING ON??? . THIS ECU MOD COULD BE A MAJOR MILESTONE IN OBTAINING MORE POWER AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEM AREN'T REPORTING ANYTHING!!!. CAN ANYONE GET AT LEAST A G-TECH AND REPORT HOW MUCH JUICE CANZOOMER'S ECU IS PUMPING.
THANKS

Originally posted by Ole Spiff
I just wanna say first that Stealth...you're a vicious, rotten bastard; I was just fine with my 8, now I want this mod you fiend! :D

I also noticed that many posts are making the error of transposing 15,000km to 15,000 MILES for the ECU change Mazda tech is talking about. The conversion to miles from 15,000km is actually 9,321 miles so many of us early buyers should be nearing that point real soon (some are already there probably). I have 7,600 miles on mine so sometime near the end of January with my normal driving routine, I should hit the magic mile number. I'll report any noticable change.

I recall reading another thread somewhere that this mod cuts the life of the catalytic converter in half? Does this mean worse emissions or just a shorter cat life?
We don't *KNOW* what the actual life will be.

We DO know that the original tune, for example as sold in Japan, would have met the current 2003 emissions standards, whic requires a converter lifespan of 50,000 miles.

We also know that the car as sold is now supposed to be compliant with the new EPA2 spec for 2004 model cars, which requires a 120,000 mile cat lifespan.

What the life will be with our tuning mods is completely unknown, but it *SHOULD* be similar to the original, so I expect it will provide at least a 50K mile lifespan. Only long term use on a few cars will provide a definitive answer to this question.

Originally posted by RX8 fever
WHAT'S GOING ON??? . THIS ECU MOD COULD BE A MAJOR MILESTONE IN OBTAINING MORE POWER AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEM AREN'T REPORTING ANYTHING!!!. CAN ANYONE GET AT LEAST A G-TECH AND REPORT HOW MUCH JUICE CANZOOMER'S ECU IS PUMPING.
THANKS
I had planned to do that yesterday.

Then we had a freezing rain storm, so it is well on impossible to do a 1/4 mile run, let alone safely.

I hope over the next few days to be able to get this done.
We are sending some units to some people in a warmer climate this week. After that we will get some figures.

I'm sure I already know the answer to this, but what are the chances of this ECU output modifier working on an automatic RX-8? My guess is no, since there are fewer intake port actuators.

Originally posted by RX8 fever
WHAT'S GOING ON??? . THIS ECU MOD COULD BE A MAJOR MILESTONE IN OBTAINING MORE POWER AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEM AREN'T REPORTING ANYTHING!!!. CAN ANYONE GET AT LEAST A G-TECH AND REPORT HOW MUCH JUICE CANZOOMER'S ECU IS PUMPING.
THANKS

http://www.siatlanta.com/forumpics/capslock.jpg

^^^^ Too Funny!

Redshift: The fact of the matter is that we want to know how Canzomer's ecu is performing. Dont write remarks that are out of place. Big deal if they were written in capital letters. This is a forum for RX-8 information,not a Grammar school. Get a life.

i want mine now :(

Originally posted by RX8 fever
Get a life. [/B]

Sure, and I'll pick you up a sense of humour while I'm at it.

Once again sorry for the slow progress.

Things here have been dreadful, an ice storm blew through yesterday, with power outages that kept me at work all day, and nearly left the world 'Zoomer-less.
He was travelling between cities during the 'white-out' and cars all around him couldn't handle the sheer ice, and hit the snowbanks.

The final tuning on my car (to check how the freer flow of the Borla affects the fuel ratios) was to have been finalised on Saturday, but we are all a bit behind because of my schedule. The Zoomster wants to be absolutely sure of the ability of his 'baby' to handle a cat-back all through the rev range. Best to get it right the first time, but it is not yet complete.
We all want this to be 'soon', but we also want it to be 'right', (and I don't want my rotors to melt down!)

I am sure he will be publishing some info soon on the horsepower difference, but again, my car is the holdup.

So, 'Ole Spiff', yes. Vicious/bastard/fiend, and now torturer!

S

MAURICE

I know that you and your crew are working extremely hard to get the stage 1 kits out to the fixated RX8 drivers. So please stop monkeying around, work hard but also have a few laughs.

PS Don't forget for my stage 1 kit to extend the wiring for the right hand drive Aussie cars. Hope this brings a smile to your face!

Regards

MIchael

Stealt: Thanks for the update. We got out first snowfall of the year here this weekend, so I know how it can bring the world to a halt.
IMO (and I'm sure I speak for many) that you guys need to take the time to do this right... not just from a technological perspective, but to deal with things like the weather and such which crop up. We don't need anybody getting hurt while pushing themselves to hard to get something like this done.

Honestly, in the grand scheme of things, how important is the ETA on this mod a few weeks either way?

All that being said, I want one for my car when it comes out of storage in the spring. :)

When is stage 2 predicted to come out? I am truely interested to get this upgrade.

Works with 91 octane all thats needed is a testpipe. I can then preserve my cat for smog purposes. Im all for it just need a date now.

Thanks again for the awsome work you have done wiht the eight.

I would like to point out that for testing purposes, I am in sunny Florida. It is flat as stale beer over here, wide open and the temp has dipped to a "chilling" 56F. I could test these puppies day and night if I needed to :D

Much better than testing in that frozen tundra you crazy people call Canada.

Originally posted by Lock & Load
MAURICE

I know that you and your crew are working extremely hard to get the stage 1 kits out to the fixated RX8 drivers. So please stop monkeying around, work hard but also have a few laughs.

PS Don't forget for my stage 1 kit to extend the wiring for the right hand drive Aussie cars. Hope this brings a smile to your face!

Regards

MIchael

Well, as far as wiring goes, i have some good news:

We have found a way to shrink things enough that we can now fit EVERYTHING inside the stock ECU box.
So now the only wire that needs to come out is a ground wire.
So no wiring to the dash is needed.

Originally posted by Genom
I would like to point out that for testing purposes, I am in sunny Florida. It is flat as stale beer over here, wide open and the temp has dipped to a "chilling" 56F. I could test these puppies day and night if I needed to :D

Much better than testing in that frozen tundra you crazy people call Canada.

That would be nice if:

1) You had a fuel/air sensr bung in your exhaust.
2) You had a 5 wire broadband sensor in that bung.
3) You had the same device as we use to read it and to log it to a computer.
4) You had a notebook PC in your car hooked to it to log it.
5) You had 2 pyrometers in your exhaust, to meter temperatures.
6) You had our tuning software on thecomputer, and the hookup to the control box to monitor it and adjust if needed and to re-program it.
7) You could talk to me on the phone for a couple of hours while we do the test runs, so i can instruct you on doing the test cycle.

And so on..

But thanks , I know the offer is sincere. Just not too feasible.

Nice! That will make the installation a lot easier. :)

Maurice, when you send me all that hardware (make it a nice laptop too please) I'll get cracking! Dont forget the dacning women, pheasants on ice and some gold foil cake.

Hey, I was being my usual smartass about it, but if you send me detailed instructions on how to mount it all.

Oh and dont forget to send all the hardware I will need. I'll cover the phone calls :D

BAH!

Anyways I EAGERLY await the final info as everybody else is I am sure. Just ignore my rambling and dont forget to email me as soon as I can get my order in.

I count the days man. almost 2 weeks ago you said 3 weeks so in my mind it's just 1 more week (even though I know you guys have been busy getting it ready and all and it's not gonna happen). Delusional I know, but hey. hope springs eternal ya know.

Maurice

There seems to be a lot of anxiety and stress relating factors from the forum members who have ordered stage 1 from you .

As my lovely wife is a practicing pchycologist maybe she can run an online session for the members and try and help their mental weelbeing , but i suspect that the only cure will be a stage 1 kit on the rx8 .

Maurice you could be the 1st aftermarket rx8 development company offering this service ?

MAURICES INTERNET ONLINE COUNSELLING SERVICES FOR FUSTRATED RX8 OWNERS .


I am fortunate i get to counsell the pchycologist , ha ha ha


michael

Very good news Maurice.

patience makes the fart go honda.

Originally posted by djmano
patience makes the fart go honda. Now that, is really good. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! :D

I'm interested in seeing in what the cars trap speed will be now. :) CJ

"I'm interested in seeing in what the cars trap speed will be now."

55 MPH travelling backwards and slightly sideways. Outside temp is now about 0 F (-18 C). ;)

maybe the reason if the chip flips around 10k miles is to reserve the life of the cat, did anyone think of this?

First of all the "chip flip" I believe is still theoritical only and second of all yes it seems many have already thought of this as it is discussed on several threads.

"Outside temp is now about 0 F (-18 C). " WOW!.....And people here STILL wonder why your national sport involves ice....brrgh

Can't wait to hear some results, very promising news altogther.

how much hp gain..any one by any chance? how much will this mod cost? im interested nice job guys!

take a visit to canzoomes place for more info

Not having to go through to the dash was worth waiting for ... even if my car ain't in storage! Keep up the good work and we'll keep checking the in-box.

patience makes the... HAHAHAHAHA. That was truly inspired and awesome...

Shoot, -18 aint nothing! You should check out Saskatchewan at -30 before the wind chill. Last winter we were into the -47 range with wind chill factored in.

That's cold, not even my all weather RX-7 will start in -47 weather without some serious encouragement.

At -47 I won't get started! I'd keep my wimpy ass inside with the heat on full. I also live in Houston. It was 70 today and will be in the 40's tonight. I hate it when it's cold here! ;)

cold weather sucks!

Originally posted by renotse
Man, I can't wait to hear from the turbo econo-box crowd on this deveopment. Mr. WRX and all the other haters will really have a reason to hate the RX8.

You don't have the slightest clue what ECU reflashes nor boost controlers do for WRXs and turbo cars in general do you? Also, most reflashes are undetectable by a dealer. Renotse you seem to be the one full of hate for other autos, not me.


For the rest of you, I'm happy to see some worthwhile mods coming out for the RX-8, or at least coming out in the near future :) I hope everything goes smoothly and it ends up being a safe/reliable mod in the long run.

Regards,
Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I'm happy to see some worthwhile mods coming out for the RX-8, or at least coming out in the near future :) I hope everything goes smoothly and it ends up being a safe/reliable mod in the long run.

Regards,
Ike

You can send some Beaujolais my way for the holidays as well! I wouldn't mind! :D

Originally posted by IkeWRX
You don't have the slightest clue what ECU reflashes nor boost controlers do for WRXs and turbo cars in general do you? Also, most reflashes are undetectable by a dealer. Renotse you seem to be the one full of hate for other autos, not me.


For the rest of you, I'm happy to see some worthwhile mods coming out for the RX-8, or at least coming out in the near future :) I hope everything goes smoothly and it ends up being a safe/reliable mod in the long run.

Regards,
Ike


IkeWRX, I will not tolerate your flamboyant tone.

Originally posted by SA22C
Shoot, -18 aint nothing!

that's balmy next to the 4 months i spent in Timmins during darkest winter... -60* (easily) taking nearly 15 minutes to walk the half block and cross the street to get to the bus stop, with the snot in your nose freezing on your scarf, and crystals forming in your nose when you breathe in... 3.5' of snow on the ground, when you're barly over 5' is enough to slow down an 8 year old to a meager standing crawl.

:cool: Canada rocks. oh yes.

Originally posted by wakeech
... -60* (easily) taking nearly 15 minutes to walk the half block and cross the street to get to the bus stop

That would be a half block UPHILL both ways, I take it?

nope, pretty level... Timmins is a long way from the Apalachians (however you spell it) :)

Originally posted by canzoomer
Well, as far as wiring goes, i have some good news:

We have found a way to shrink things enough that we can now fit EVERYTHING inside the stock ECU box.
So now the only wire that needs to come out is a ground wire.
So no wiring to the dash is needed.


Being an engineer, I'm very curious how you shrunk the mod. How do you wire the mod inside the ECU? Any before and after pictures or sketches? Just curious.........

Originally posted by IkeWRX
You don't have the slightest clue what ECU reflashes nor boost controlers do for WRXs and turbo cars in general do you?
....


Regards,
Ike


What was your point again? And how does it apply to Canzoomer's Mod?

Funny thing about me and tuning turbo cars in the past... especially the WRX ;)

Originally posted by syntrix
What was your point again? And how does it apply to Canzoomer's Mod?

Funny thing about me and tuning turbo cars in the past... especially the WRX ;)

If you would actually read the whole post and not paraphrase you would realize I was responding to Renotse.

From FONZIE "Being an engineer, I'm very curious how you shrunk the mod. How do you wire the mod inside the ECU? Any before and after pictures or sketches? Just curious........"

Well, we'd have to make you disappear if we told you ;) , but it just involved more experience in what was required to mount it, and what could be done to the existing stuff, to help it fit.

It still plugs in with a cable to the stock ECU. Only external wire, as Canzoomer stated, is a ground (no ground connection point in stock ECU housing). No wires to cut, no holes to drill.

Originally posted by canzoomer
That would be nice if:

1) You had a fuel/air sensr bung in your exhaust.
2) You had a 5 wire broadband sensor in that bung.
3) You had the same device as we use to read it and to log it to a computer.
4) You had a notebook PC in your car hooked to it to log it.
5) You had 2 pyrometers in your exhaust, to meter temperatures.
6) You had our tuning software on thecomputer, and the hookup to the control box to monitor it and adjust if needed and to re-program it.
7) You could talk to me on the phone for a couple of hours while we do the test runs, so i can instruct you on doing the test cycle.

And so on..

But thanks , I know the offer is sincere. Just not too feasible.

I have a different wideband sensor, and only just 1 EGT. Other than that, you should hook me up with a test or early unit, and I can report some results ;) And I do have a laptop with a few obdii softwares, but they don't work with the can bus.

.....if he keeps lopping off his digits, CanZ won't be rewiring anything! :)

Originally posted by FONZIE
Being an engineer, I'm very curious how you shrunk the mod. How do you wire the mod inside the ECU? Any before and after pictures or sketches? Just curious.........
I hope to post some pics this weekend, time allowing.
I made a smaller box to hold the board, and fit the adaptor plug inside this box.
That made it small enough to go on top of the ECU, inside the plastic box that contains/protects the ECU unit.

We are not putting it inside the metal cnister that holds the ECU board. We are putting it in the plastic weatherproof box that holds the ECU canister.

Originally posted by syntrix
I have a different wideband sensor, and only just 1 EGT. Other than that, you should hook me up with a test or early unit, and I can report some results ;) And I do have a laptop with a few obdii softwares, but they don't work with the can bus.
That would be useful info then.

Now that I have finished doing the "shrink" of the design, it will now be a lot easier to build, and we should be pumping out units a lot faster.

....now I'll be updated to what's happening on this very interesting thread....that I just discovered today. (by placing my own post).

This modification sounds great...I wonder what it will do for top speed also.

Any concerns with this piggyback unit regarding longevity or running too lean? Any other downsides?

How easy would it be to remove? And would the dealers have any idea it was once installed after it was taken out?

I wouldn't want to void warranty claims because the device was once installed and they had a way to find out...

It certainly sounds interesting... but I'm always somewhat leery when 3rd parties start thinking they can do it better than the factory.

I'm not saying it can't be done... but I'm just a born skeptic I guess... :)

Thanks for putting up with the questions...

Check this thread for more info guys: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14823

Thanks.

I am happy - my two weeks with "the mod" installed, have been the icing on my RX-8 cake!
(It may take plastic surgery to get this stupid grin off my face!)

Well, obviously, driving 'the most powerful Renesis in North America' will do that to a guy!
Thanks again 'Zoomer!

He is, how can I put this diplomatically, "a bit of a perfectionist....."

As late as last night, we were out doing more full throttle runs with yet another black box, with an even more refined version of his tuning parameters. It seemed to go well, though I didn't see much, my job was to plant the throttle and hang on!
He has already been through the process with his own '8, on the street and the dyno, and was just making sure the same box would give repeatable results on a cat-back car.

But I think, finally, Maurice is happy! The computers, sensors, readouts and their power supplies are out of my passenger seat, and all the data are now safely in his laptop. I am told that dyno plots of the finished project will be posted soon, I'm guessing next week.

S

Maurice

At last

My only concern is that i already have such a big grin on my face even driving my car stock standard , i may not be able to fit in the rx8 because of the size of my grin once the canzoomer especiall is fitted to my car . ha ha ha

Maurice i am exxxxcited ., excited ,excited , and still waiting.


The next couple of weeks are going to be hard , heck waiting for father maurices stage 1 kit to come by raindeer from canada ., and fitted into my birthday, christmas gift.( my LIGHTINING YELLOW RX8) Come on santa come on - come on .

michael

"Growing old is mandatory growing up is optional."

If I hadent just gone to the bathroom before reading this, I woulda peed my pants form the excitement. :D

And I still have at least a month to wait! You guys that get the unit first? Dont post anything at all until I get mine. This way I wont be forced to hunt you down, kidnap your pet turle and use it to blackmail you into giving me the unit (or the turtle turns into soup!)

Originally posted by Genom
If I hadent just gone to the bathroom before reading this, I woulda peed my pants form the excitement. :D

And I still have at least a month to wait! You guys that get the unit first? Dont post anything at all until I get mine. This way I wont be forced to hunt you down, kidnap your pet turle and use it to blackmail you into giving me the unit (or the turtle turns into soup!)

Gemmon

Them theres language from a desperate man , a ninja turtle rx8 with the moods wow.

Carefull as this forum is open the boys in black may see you as a potentiall terrorist , hey if you are prepared to kidnap turtles , what other fiendish acts are you capable of
carriyng out???
michael

I think he's just envious of Elara's turtle

Secondly, thats not a turtle. It's a bug and I dont kidnap bugs. What kinda savage do you think I am?

Firstly, I am capable of the MOST fiendish acts imaginable. Why, I've even been known to put sticky tape on cats paws, and feed dogs huge dollops of peanut butter.

Yes, it will all be mine one day....

Gemon

You forgot the mandantory Dr evil style laughter , dont all fiendish characters have a laugh?

I can't remember... does the stage 1 chip require Premium fuel or not??

Originally posted by pr0ber
I can't remember... does the stage 1 chip require Premium fuel or not??
Require? No.

We STRONGLY Recommend mid grade or better ( 89 octane)
It would run on 87, but I do NOT suggest doing that.

With this in place it WOULD definitely cost you some performance if you ran low test.

Originally posted by StealthTL
I am happy - my two weeks with "the mod" installed, have been the icing on my RX-8 cake!
(It may take plastic surgery to get this stupid grin off my face!)

Well, obviously, driving 'the most powerful Renesis in North America' will do that to a guy!
Thanks again 'Zoomer!

He is, how can I put this diplomatically, "a bit of a perfectionist....."

As late as last night, we were out doing more full throttle runs with yet another black box, with an even more refined version of his tuning parameters. It seemed to go well, though I didn't see much, my job was to plant the throttle and hang on!
He has already been through the process with his own '8, on the street and the dyno, and was just making sure the same box would give repeatable results on a cat-back car.

But I think, finally, Maurice is happy! The computers, sensors, readouts and their power supplies are out of my passenger seat, and all the data are now safely in his laptop. I am told that dyno plots of the finished project will be posted soon, I'm guessing next week.

S


Awesome!

I've got to say, I'm not a "mod" guy, unless it involves my shifter kart.

But this one has me intrigued!

All I really thought the 8 was missing was some "hit" to its power band, so this would fit the bill nicely!

It may have to be mod #2 after I get my 8! (mod #1 is the MP3 head)

Today I was fortunate enough to go for a ride in StealhTL's RX-8, in case you weren't aware he is testing the Stage1 ECU Kit for canzoomer and all I can say is WOW!

We did several 2nd and 3rd gear runs to redline on the highway and I can honestly say there is a huge difference in power over stock. The power comes on nice and strong up to 5k rpm where all of a sudden it feels like a turbo kicks in, you can really feel it push you back into your seat, and it continues this boost of power right to redline nice and smooth without any stumbles. I was expecting a noticeable difference but I didn't think it would be as big a change as it was, I was really shocked, I'm sure I had a really stupid grin on my face.

What really surprised me was that when we hit 5k rpm and the power came on the rear end actually broke loose, I never expected that in a full throttle run from 2k rpm. Granted it is winter here and the cold pavement contributed to this but it was still really surprising.

All in all I can say I was extremely impressed, my RX-8 should arrive any day now and I'm definately getting the stage 1 kit as soon as possible.

Thanks again to Ray for taking me for a rip in his car, I really appreciate it, it definately sold me on the Stage1 Mod and thanks to Canzoomer for all his hard work. I can't wait to see the dyno sheets he has coming, I know everyone will be pleasantly surprised.

nice, NICE, VERY NICE! i too can't wait for the dyno but even without those i'm still pretty much sold...the fact that the tires break lose at 5k is enough to get me wet

Originally posted by Jag

What really surprised me was that when we hit 5k rpm and the power came on the rear end actually broke loose, I never expected that in a full throttle run from 2k rpm. Granted it is winter here and the cold pavement contributed to this but it was still really surprising.

Jag... what gear were you in when the rear broke loose like that?

I think that was during a 2nd gear run. We were just cruising at 2k rpm and then floored it, the power comes on nice and smooth but right at 5k when it really kicks in the rear wheels broke loose, didn't expect it at all.

Really, who cares what the dyno reads. If i had the mod on my 8 and it dyno'd only 10hp more, but felt like 50hp to me, that's all that really matters.

so far, the 3 people that have had a chance to experience this mod first hand said nothing but incredible things, I cna't imagine any less. I can only assume they have driven other sports cars, unlike me, if if this is what they say I'll tend to believe them.

If the mod isn't what I expected, then I'll deal with it at that time. In any case, you can run numbers all day long, I think it comes down to preference and feel.

I've mentioned in other threads that had a Stealth twin turbo, more hp than the 8 and all wheel drive, but just doesn't compare to the 8 on any level as far as I'm concerned.

so when you get your mod and try it out and say to yourself, "Was this really worth it?" and you respond to yourself, "F*ck yeah!" with a big turd munching grin, then no amount of dyno #'s should dissuade you otherwise.

IMO

Originally posted by oosik
Really, who cares what the dyno reads. If i had the mod on my 8 and it dyno'd only 10hp more, but felt like 50hp to me, that's all that really matters.

IMO

Man, ain't that the truth! Even if it's no big HP increase, it would add some desperately needed "life" to the 8's powerband. I think the 8's current powerband is "too" linear.

I'm totally interested.

Ahem, but I'll have to wait until I get my car in spring. :( ;)

oosik, I agree with you for the most part. Really, as long as you're happy it doesn't matter what the dyno says.

I think the dyno sheets are important because this isn't exactly a cheap mod although I think it's a great value for what you get. I was fortunate enough to test the stage 1 kit firsthand before buying so really to me a dyno sheet would only serve my curiosity, I'm purchasing the kit regardless of what the dyno ends up showing.

Unfortunately not everyone will be able to experience this before ordering one, if I was one of these people I would want some proof that canzoomer's product works since $500 is a bit more than I'd like to risk without being sure of considerable gains, this is where the dyno sheets come in. I think the majority of people are convinced of the effectiveness of the stage1 kit, but just want some more info on how much power it actually makes before parting with their cash.

The one thing I don't think the dyno sheet will show is how smooth the power comes on with the stage1 kit. The nice smooth powerband without any stumbles and the big punch at 5k rpm that you feel is really what sold me more than what any dyno chart will say.

One of the things that I treasure about the 8 is its silky smooth acceleration. From all the accounts who rode with Canzoomer's Stage 1, it sounded like there is a drastic change in the rate of acceleration. Can someone further clarify/describe this? Don't get me wrong, I would love the added power. In fact, I am already on Canzoomer's waiting list for the Stage 1. I just wanted to have a better feel of what I'll be getting. :D Can't wait for my Stage 1 to arrive.

I've been following that stage 1 mod and I would be interested but I'm a dummy with car mechanic, I know the "stage 1" cost is $700 cdn, but what about the installation? I leave in Montreal.

keep the excellent work guy's.

Regards,

Simon

Very simple. Disconnect battery. Open top of ECU cover (passenger side of engine compartment, at the front). Unplug the ECU connector, plug the mod into where the ECU used to be plugged in, then plug the ECU into the mod. Put ECU cover back on, reconnect battery. That's it.

What does the accelleration feel like with the stage 1 mod? Stock, it's hard to notice there are any "G" forces pushing you back into the seat. Smooth un-noticable accelleration until you notice you are travelling at supra-legal speeds. With the mod. you notice the accelleration. It pushes you back into the seat. Still not violently, still smooth, just insistant. Oh, and you reach surpra-legal speeds much more quickly.

Thanks RX Friend for the reassurance regarding the feel of the Stage 1. I just can't wait. You can't tell, but I am jumping up and down on my chair right now.
Come onnnnnnn, Santa (aka Canzoomer)?!:D

Hello,

How can I put my name on the waiting list for stage #1?

So, that's it, just replace the ECU and it's done... no Air Intake + Muffler mod?
WOW!

Simon

This could be a nice Christmas present if it comes out soon enogh. Also how many do you think you can initially produce. Just wanted to know if you think they are going to be on back order.

Has anyone heard how production is going? I was under the impression that orders would be backed up for "awhile" and have not heard or ....missed an update here. I'm very excited and am a strong believer in "chipping" anyways...

Originally posted by SDFLY
Has anyone heard how production is going? I was under the impression that orders would be backed up for "awhile" and have not heard or ....missed an update here. I'm very excited and am a strong believer in "chipping" anyways... Check this thread for info: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16692

Where are the dyno/gtech sheets? I think if you have the
time to design build and test this mod then you have had time
post some concrete results. Maybe everyone should just
buy a Tornado for your intake and while your at it get a
radar jammer(the ones that are nothing but an led light
inside a plastic shell) to keep from getting all those speeding
tickets with your new rocket. If it sounds to good to be
true..........

Originally posted by hogcar
Where are the dyno/gtech sheets? I think if you have the
time to design build and test this mod then you have had time
post some concrete results. Maybe everyone should just
buy a Tornado for your intake and while your at it get a
radar jammer(the ones that are nothing but an led light
inside a plastic shell) to keep from getting all those speeding
tickets with your new rocket. If it sounds to good to be
true.......... hello hog, your pessimism is a good thing as you should not believe everything you read. But seeing you only have 2 posts, I don't think you are yet fully knowledgeable about CZ's entire process and the multitude of information (other threads) already on this subject. My suggestion is to continue reading all the posts. As for dyno's they are on the way....

Why do you feel like just because I only have two posts
that I am uninformed? I have been reading posts on this
site since it started. I have read the posts and am very
familiar with how the wankel works. I don't want to sound
negative but I also don't want people to get caught up in
something before they think. Having built and raced all types
of Mazdas since the 70's I know some people expect
unreasonable gains from some mods only to be disappointed.
All I wondered was where are the comparisons.

Originally posted by hogcar
Why do you feel like just because I only have two posts
that I am uninformed? I have been reading posts on this
site since it started.

....


All I wondered was where are the comparisons.

If you have read all the posts, you will know that this device is just coming out AND dyno sheets will be provided soon.

I would have to say that you missed a few posts somewhere ;)

You should check Tech Garage> Do you plan on
purchasing CZ's mod..... Last thread.... We are ready
for shipping. If you are ready to sell, I think you could
post some comparisons. I don't post much because I
am too busy reading and sometimes laughing. Get a
gtech and do a comparison. I am not the only person
asking these questions.

Hogcar, you'd have your gtech, but I think you missed this post:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16692&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

Scroll down a bit, and then be patient with this new product. Of note is the WEATHER, lol.

I gots a G-Tech.

'Zoomer gots a G-Tech.

(Actually he gots at least TWO 'G-Tech Pros'.)

But even YOU know you don't want G-Tech info. A sure way to get laughed off the forum would be to try and sell a mod, based on G-Tech readout data.

He also did most of his data points on a dyno, over a hundred hours. However it was a tuner dyno, not the well respected 'Dyno-Jet' type.

A Dyno-Jet has been located, it is only sixty miles from here and he has time booked on the it, but is held up by problems with his wheel sensor wiring, it all has to be re-done as his new ECU seems to be more sensitive to ABS faults, and keeps throwing 'Check' lights.

Tonight was a washout, with serious effort it may happen on Friday. Or not.

But please leave off the "I wanna G-Tech printout" nonsense.

S

Thanks Omni...

The only people who think a g-tec is worthless are the people who have never used one. Regardless of what a drag strip timing system says vs it the g-tec is still a very good indicator of whether or not a mod works or not. A drag strip averages the speed over the last 60 feet anyways so regardless they are always wrong on speed. Post a before and after g-tec run with each setup. Do 5 runs apiece and average them. People will always bitch about the results but then again we've had people complain about not having the actual dyno info since they didn't believe the dyno printout. Who cares. Do it and post it. A gain is a gain. The total time is irrelevant. The importance is the difference between the two times. Just don't try to sell anything based soley off of the g-tec numbers. Still need a good dyno to back it up.

"problems with his wheel sensor wiring, it all has to be re-done as his new ECU seems to be more sensitive to ABS faults, and keeps throwing 'Check' lights.

"But please leave off the "I wanna G-Tech printout" nonsense".

With everything being said, I think that the majority of the people wants to have an idea of the new piggyback performance. If testing the car on the dyno is hard/impossible/will take longer to defeat the sensors/etc,etc , at least with a Gtech there is an idea of how much power this new modification is capable of. Testing the same car, same road conditions,same driver and using the same Gtech and 100% effort by the driver, From point A to point B (Stock ECU) Gtech result:___then turn the car around From Point B to Point A (CZ"S ECU) Gtech result__.
So because is so hard to dyno the car, the Gtech will show the difference between both ECU . The fact that the dyno is more precise doesnt matter because for whatever reason(limp mode,sensors,ABS,etc) you are not obtaining any reading so far. I think that if you guys are already selling/shipping the product and the dyno test is going to take more time, I believe that at least you should come up with your Gtech testing results. The actual performance can be later confirmed by the dyno whenever all the tricks are defeated.
Thanks

You last two guys still aren't paying attention! ;) Canzoomer lives in Edmonton, Alberta. It's winter up here. It's cold up here. Roads are slippery up here. Even with winter tires, there isn't enough traction for full throttle runs through the gears - wheelspin happens at speed. Acceleration suffers. GTech results become useless.

Ask for GTech results all you want, but Canzoomer has already stated that right now, it is physically impossible to generate them.

Regards,
Gordon

I am paying attention! I know it is currently not feasible for him to generate them due to weather. I am merely replying to the negative comments that people have against the g-tec. A comparison is a comparison.

Originally posted by sto16
Hello,

How can I put my name on the waiting list for stage #1?

So, that's it, just replace the ECU and it's done... no Air Intake + Muffler mod?
WOW!

Simon

You don't replace the ECU.
it connects between the ECU and the wiring harness that plugs in to the ECU.

The unit sits on top of the ECU inside the plastic ECU cover.

Originally posted by Jag
I think the majority of people are convinced of the effectiveness of the stage1 kit, but just want some more info on how much power it actually makes before parting with their cash.

I parted with my cash yesterday! I was sold instantly when StealthTL took me for a spin. Canzoomer is a pure gentleman and I am grateful for all he has done. Thank you Maurice you are the KING!!

Well, 'Zoomer *could* road trip to Las Vegas... :)

We did a lot more work on the ABS "fooler" last night, and advanced much further. Still doesn't work, but we now know why, and think we can have it working soon.

Canzoomer was bored, frustrated, and pressured to get -some- results performance wise, so he went out very late and did some runs (I was sleeping by then ;) ). We're having a warm spell (+2 deg C) and the roads were clean and dry. I'll let him post what he's comfortable reporting, but from what he told me, he's very close to 3rd gen 1/4 mile times :) . On 17" winter tires. Amazing.

Maybe I'm no longer "king of the road".

Originally posted by RX-8 friend
We did a lot more work on the ABS "fooler" last night, and advanced much further... I'll let him post what he's comfortable reporting, but from what he told me, he's very close to 3rd gen 1/4 mile times :) . On 17" winter tires. Amazing.
RX-8 friend & CZ,

I think you are only fanning the fire with news like this without additional proof/documentation. I prefer that you guys wouldn't say a word for a couple weeks, do your tests and then post your results. Also, stating the Stage 1 price will go up but without giving any indication as to how much only serves to confuse people more. I can understand why some people can perceive that you are forcing their decision before they are comfortable with your results. I'm sure you will post results/dyno's before you ship the first unit out (I would think this method would make the most sense).

Originally posted by brothervoodoo
RX-8 friend & CZ,

I think you are only fanning the fire with news like this without additional proof/documentation. I prefer that you guys wouldn't say a word for a couple weeks, do your tests and then post your results. Also, stating the Stage 1 price will go up but without giving any indication as to how much only serves to confuse people more. I can understand why some people can perceive that you are forcing their decision before they are comfortable with your results. I'm sure you will post results/dyno's before you ship the first unit out (I would think this method would make the most sense). Don't worry. I spoke with 'Zoomer this morning and results will be posted soon. From what we discussed, his mod is incredible! The numbers obtained from last night's runs will blow everyone's mind!

Good! So let's stop all the gossip and just wait for the results!

Thanks for the support. I am merely trying to get people to
think first. I have never made any personal statements or
resorted to name calling. I also am getting a little tired of being
told about the missed posts that explains everything. I have
been reading these posts since this forum got started. I truly
wish CZ success with his modification but I also Know that there are a great many people working on the same types of things.
Racing Beat, Paul Yaw (brilliant),Mazdaspeed etc. They have not come up with to date anything like this magic bullet. My guess
and it is only a guess is that Mazda richened the fuel mixture
on the 8 so that the side seals would have a reasonable life
expectancy. I am sure that by leaning the mixture you would see slight power gains but at what cost? I want the rx8 to be
a success as much as anyone. I love the rotary engine I just
am not sure the ren. is going to do it.

Long live the rotary!!!

Originally posted by hogcar
My guess and it is only a guess is that Mazda richened the fuel mixture on the 8 so that the side seals would have a reasonable life expectancy. I am sure that by leaning the mixture you would see slight power gains but at what cost?
I'm not sure you have an '8', but, if you do, it sounds like you may want to wait a few years to mod your car. Dynos, G-Tech, etc. will not provide you answers to longevity of the engine with the mod. Only time will provide that.

Where did this side seal theory come from? The explanation given has been that the mixture was likely richened so the cats would meet their mandated 10 year lifespan...otherwise the temps were too high I believe. It sounded reasonable to me, is there a reason why you don't believe that?

jds

The theory came from 25 years of building engines
......and a degree in chemistry and physics
If the side seals were not affected by the design change
to a side exhaust then Mazda would not design different(side)
seals. With a Peripheral exhaust the side seals are never
exposed to the rotary's hot breath.

Maurice (Canzoomer)

Most of the forum members who have entrusted you with the stage1kit and ordered from you have total utter faith in your product and you as a person of Highest repute, its only a few COWBOYS who shot from the hip and dont think before they act , ignore those f#$%wits and carry on your excellent work ,

You and your team have 99.9% support from forum members who are patient and ready to wait for your shipping and dyno results realizing the magnitude of your task .

By the way its a sunny 28 degrees celcious here on the sunny warm gold coast , as i swim and play with my family by the beach i will keep some warm thoughts for you poor guys in that freakkin freezing temperature.

Keep up the excellent work , "dont worry be happy".

MICHAEL

Watch out for the Great White Sharks :)

Originally posted by Sea Ray
Watch out for the Great White Sharks :)

Sea ray , i mostly worry about( Sting rays ) not sharks , are you related.?

Well, the fact that the new motor design included changes to the side seals doesn't really imply that making it run leaner than pig rich (which it apparently is at the top end) will cause problems with them...but that's a good point about the exhaust exposure, assuming its true (not questioning you, I just don't have any personal knowledge of it). However, I don't think anyone will know the answer to that question for a fairly long time. Its one of those risks you have to take if you want to mod the car I guess.

jds

Originally posted by hogcar
The theory came from 25 years of building engines
......and a degree in chemistry and physics
If the side seals were not affected by the design change
to a side exhaust then Mazda would not design different(side)
seals. With a Peripheral exhaust the side seals are never
exposed to the rotary's hot breath.

Originally posted by RX-8 friend
...he's very close to 3rd gen 1/4 mile times :) . On 17" winter tires. Amazing.DROOL!!! No freakin way! Isn't that like 0-60 in 5 seconds and a 13.70 seconds @ 102.5 mph 1/4 mile?!?!?!

Originally posted by Omicron
DROOL!!! No freakin way! Isn't that like 0-60 in 5 seconds and a 13.70 seconds @ 102.5 mph 1/4 mile?!?!?! keep your skirt on.. just wait for the results.. people just can't stay patient I guess... :(

Yeah yeah yeah, I know. :D

But FYI, Canzoomer just posted GTech times of some runs he made last night, here: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=198535#post198535


And his best time was..................drum roll please................

1/4 mile in 13.78 seconds.

Originally posted by hogcar
The theory came from 25 years of building engines
......and a degree in chemistry and physics
If the side seals were not affected by the design change
to a side exhaust then Mazda would not design different(side)
seals. With a Peripheral exhaust the side seals are never
exposed to the rotary's hot breath.




You know I tried to start that topic back in April but didn't get much of a response back then.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3763

Mazda originally tried the side exhaust ports back in the early '70s so don't go thinking it is anything new. Back then the cars were not fuel injected and oil metering was done very differently. A small nozzle in the carb injected oil into the engine but they used much more than we do now. Also remember that oil wasn't as refined (no pun intended) as it is now. The original issue was that carbon deposits would build up inside the engine from the oil and that this carbon would get scraped against the side seals which resulted in their breakage. Also the excess heat on the outer oil control rings on the rotors also caused them to fail prematurely. The seals back then may have been thicker than they are now but they were made out of a weaker material. Back when Mazda was experimenting with side exhaust ports they were still using 6mm carbon apex seals! Current seal material technology, better oil metering ability (less), and the new cutoff seals all make the new side exhaust port configuration possible. Also remember that the side seals used up until the introduction of the Renesis were just a plain rectangular shape if viewed rom their cross section. The new Renesis side seals are wedge shaped across the side section. They are wider at the bottom and get thinner as they enter the rotor. This shape allows constant self cleaning and scraping away of any carbon deposits so they do not lock or break. If Mazda would wise up and use a seperate oil reservoir that uses 2 cycle oil in the oil metering system, we would almost never have carbon buildup. 2 cycle oil likes to burn well when mixed with gas, conventional oils do not. Running lean will not affect the engine in any way until the onset of detonation. The seals have to be able to survive the high heat of these engines and they do. Mazda even admits that the Renesis runs best at much leaner levels than the previous rotaries and if those were nonturbo they loved to be lean.

I can't say I've built engines for 25 years. I've built nothing but rotaries for the past 10 though. And while I don't have a degree in chemistry or physics, I did take a chemistry and a physics course once! ;) I'm actually a real estate agent! Please, please don't go speculating about why Mazda did something without first studying it. THIS is why side exhaust ports were never used and are now! Oh BTW, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

1/4 mile in 13.78!!! That rocks! I don't care if it from a g-tec or not. That is still much faster. If he did those recently then it was obviously on very cold ground. Fantastic news.

Who said it was new? My take on the whole side exhaust
issue goes like this. Mazda needs a rotary powered sports
car. Power levels are limited in most na engines due to
displacement. A turbo version would satisfy most people's
needs but would be more expensive and most likely less
reliable than a non turbo. The last turbo rotary did not sell
very well in this country for whatever reason.

Mazda decided to go with a na engine the 13b.
Power levels of the old type 13b in na trim would not meet
the levels that would be needed to create excitement for a
NEW car. Porting the side intake and peri exhaust would cause
unacceptable drivability problems mostly due to the inherent
overlap of the exhaust and intake cycles. So how do you
solve the problem... You go with side exhausts ,This allows for
more port area(HP) and still allows for better throtle response
and drivability. It's really hard to have your cake and eat it to
but Mazda has done a great job. What I really would like to see
is more volume either a larger 2 rotor or say a na 3 rotor 12a
using lighter intermediate housing.. Oh yes Ti rotors would
be nice How about a 10,500 redline!!
I usually stay at the Econolodge.

Originally posted by Omicron
Yeah yeah yeah, I know. :D

But FYI, Canzoomer just posted GTech times of some runs he made last night, here: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=198535#post198535


And his best time was..................drum roll please................

1/4 mile in 13.78 seconds.


Oi... him and the other guys getting 13 something times with Gtechs in the stock RX-8s...

Hi, Ike,

How did I know YOU would be the first to criticize a G-Tech result?

S

Um, Ike, he's the only one who's gotten anything. A few others have driven with it, but no one has timed it until Canzoomer did last night. AND, these are unofficial results... just something for all the people who have been clamoring for SOME sort of result.

Please don't start another flame war about this, ok? Thanks...

Originally posted by Omicron
Um, Ike, he's the only one who's gotten anything. A few others have driven with it, but no one has timed it until Canzoomer did last night. AND, these are unofficial results... just something for all the people who have been clamoring for SOME sort of result.

Please don't start another flame war about this, ok? Thanks...


That's cool, I'll backoff since people did ask for Gtech results but I don't think they meant times and I don't get why they would want them in the first place. Anyhow my lips are sealed on the Gtech results as long as no one tries to represent them as gosphel, which no one has done yet.

Thank you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hogcar
Who said it was new? My take on the whole side exhaust
issue goes like this. Mazda needs a rotary powered sports
car. Power levels are limited in most na engines due to
displacement. A turbo version would satisfy most people's
needs but would be more expensive and most likely less
reliable than a non turbo. The last turbo rotary did not sell
very well in this country for whatever reason. [QUOTE]

I never said that someone said it was new. It is merely a sentence for the uninformed. Please don't take offense to it. The rest of the first part of that is absolutely true. The last RX-7 along with every other Japanese sports car, was cancelled from the U.S. market due to price. The high price of the Supra, RX-7, 300ZX were in the mid to high 40's. American sports cars with similar horsepower and acceleration numbers could be had for far less money and were out selling their Japanese rivals. The RX-7 wasn't discontiued here due to power. It was due to low demand from overpricing.


The g-tec is a very reliable device. Users aren't. Agreed that they are not the be all end all though.

rotarygod, I thought the RX-7 was removed from NA market because of OBDII, which came in 1996. Kind of moot point either way, as it was very expensive too.

Rotarygod...

Yeah, I've *love* for Mazda to use a separate 2-cycle-oil system. Throw a little Burris Blend in there, and you'd even get the great castor smell! (without most of the carbon)

I'm going to order canzoomer's stage 1 mod the day after Christmas. Anyone have one on their 8? Let me know what you think, please.

I got the only one in the world, so far.
//{insert 'silly-grin' smilie here}//
I think it's.....nice.
Do a search on my posts for more details.

S

Just a question... I bought my car in Arizona.... and shiped it to germany. Cant i just go to a Mazda dealership out here and get a re-flash on the ECU? Wont this basically acomplish the same thing..... for free?

You're probably one of the first in Germany. As for reflash of the ecu you better check what HP Germany's rx-8 is rated. The Japanese have more HP than the US and the US has more HP than UK. You might get reflashed and actually lose power.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Never even thought about that!! thanks BVD for the heads up!!

BTW, maybe you know this. I was told the RX-8's are not officially available in Germany until Jan 24th. You're going to get attention, for some time to come, from all the Wankel maniacs over there. :)

I remember when the new model beetles arrived in Germany, they shit a brick when one would drive by. US consumers usually get first crack at German engineered cars (BMW, Volks, etc) and the Germans usually get them after the US market, what a raw deal.

mmmmmmmm so i should try to sell it for $$$$$$$$$$ NOT!!

First off, if you bought your car in Arizona, then you are driving a US spec model, and reflashing the ECU to German/Euro spec will not necessarilly gain you any HP. In fact, you may lose some. Also keep in mind that the ECU does a lot more than just performance stuff... you may wind up with your stereo display in German! :)

Secondly, you titled this thread "CZ's HP gain all ECU?" then didn't refer to the CZ mod. Are you asking if it will work over there? Since you have a US spec car, the answer is definitely YES. If I were you, I'd get onto the waiting list for this mod ASAP. If it were a German spec car, the answer would have been "maybe."

Hope this helps.

oh ok ty alot!!

I'll divulge a "secret" here.

It "appears" that there are two ECU programs. Japaneze, and everyone else. So I doubt you would win or lose with a reprogram. If I told you how I found this out I'd have to shoot you, and as I'm Canadian, and not allowed to own a gun, I can't ;) .

HP differences quoted by Mazda are mostly due to differences in measuring techniques and standards. i.e. a euro HP is different than a US HP.

The nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from!

Have there been any dynos of the stage 1 ECU mod?

Even a before and after Gtech Pro dyno would be fine.

-Mr. Wigggles

No Dynos
No Pictures
No ECU Yet
No date for shipping
No web page
No canzoomer's
Few G tech times posted

But something is for sure:

1- Price increased from $500.00 to $750.00
and yet no sign of the modification.

Reasons
1- Too busy
2- Holidays
3- Too cold
5- Parts not the one ordered
6- Its just a side project
7- Dynos hard to trick
8- Unit new design etc,etc

you summed that up good!!!

David..

I hate to say it...but I think i'm going to wait for something thats fully programable. CJ

Yeah I am with you. Canzoomer is busy and all but to post a thread saying that he is shipping on Dec. 19th and not update anyone since late December is just wrong. It makes you think about why it was postponed in the first place.

David..

Originally posted by davefzr
Yeah I am with you. Canzoomer is busy and all but to post a thread saying that he is shipping on Dec. 19th and not update anyone since late December is just wrong. It makes you think about why it was postponed in the first place.

It has been posted - the delay was due to a redesign of the unit - the module and wiring was shrunk to fit entirely within the ECU box for a much simpler and cleaner install.

Regards,
Gordon

True, and I do remember that but, it seems that the timing of the price increase and nobody getting to test this out before the price goes up is interesting at the least.

I sense a conspiracy brewing! Oh no!!!!!! :D

Everyone had the chance to make a choice and be an early bird. You sit and wait, you knew it would cost you more, you take a chance, and it saves. I may have wasted 500, you may have saved 500. OR not??? Who knows??? (except CanZoomer)

Its a gamble at this point for those of us who understood the time line, which was clearly defined. I choose to take a chance and put my money up. I believe it will be a good investment.

It is your choice to buy or not, no one is twisting your arm or forcing you to buy it sight unseen. If it is as good as it sounds, then even 750 is a good deal. If you don't want it, don't buy it. Pretty simple.

Maurice sounds like he is more interested in getting a good product out the door than just meeting a guessed time line. Good for him, and us.

Someone pass the cheese to go with this.............

Originally posted by Sea Ray
Everyone had the chance to make a choice and be an early bird. You sit and wait, you knew it would cost you more, you take a chance, and it saves. I may have wasted 500, you may have saved 500. OR not??? Who knows??? (except CanZoomer)

Its a gamble at this point for those of us who understood the time line, which was clearly defined. I choose to take a chance and put my money up. I believe it will be a good investment.

It is your choice to buy or not, no one is twisting your arm or forcing you to buy it sight unseen. If it is as good as it sounds, then even 750 is a good deal. If you don't want it, don't buy it. Pretty simple.

Maurice sounds like he is more interested in getting a good product out the door than just meeting a guessed time line. Good for him, and us.

Someone pass the cheese to go with this.............

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well said....care for some velvetta?

Originally posted by davefzr
True, and I do remember that but, it seems that the timing of the price increase and nobody getting to test this out before the price goes up is interesting at the least.

Ditto, I'm waiting to order. It's all too convenient.

i don't necessarily have any doubts about the product although i have high doubts about the reasons why CZ can't get online and respond to 1 or 2 threads with a universal statement...the product i believe to function as stated and has been held back to produce an even better version before being released to the general public...i believe all reports have been true and his discoveries and research can't have been simply made up...however, the recent excuses as to why he can't simply go online for a few minutes in the last few weeks concerns me...a computer with Internet access can be found EVERYWHERE...even if you don't have one in your house, i'm sure work, school, library, airport, neighbors, starbucks, Internet cafe, or even a cellphone nowadays is connected...with all that testing, i'm sure a laptop has been used and a laptop can be plugged into any regular RJ-11 phone jack...worse comes to worse, have a colleague answer emails or post a status report here knowing very well ppl are anxious...

well, like i said, i don't doubt the product, but an extra 5 minutes just to let us know what's going on would really REALLY set us at ease

BRx8: Exactly

Even if the product comes out like I believe it will, what kind of support for the modification will be available if people are going to hide. Can you imagine if big companies like Amazon or Compusa dont respond to inquiries? They'll in bankruptcy.

I believe if you are going to sell a product and you still working on it, don't hype the customers with dates and increasing prices on a modification that so far is a ghost.

Work as hard as you can to get an excellent product on the market. Then when the product is finished,tested and ready to go, take some pictures, show validation data, be available on the venue that you are advertising( In this case the internet:Forum).
I think that telling us about dates,pictures, web pages ,testing ,etc is premature to say the least. It should be done first and then when there is nothing more to do with the unit then come up and sell it.
No one is telling that is easy, but I believe that the consumer deserve respect if you want your product and the seller to be well respected too.

Here's my take on it. I'll preface it by saying I've already paid Canzoomer my $500, and I have no doubts that the product will ship soon and be everything he's said it will be.

I suspect that he miscalculated the costs, and he's actually LOSING money on the first run selling them at US$500. But he's sticking to his word, and honoring the price anyway. That explains the sharp 50% price increase, and it explains why he's been a bit quiet about it on the forum (nobody wants to admit to a miscalculation like that...not only that, but he's probably been quietly waiting out the end of the $500 order period, hoping fewer people would actually order at that price...wouldn't you if you were losing money?)

I'm the kinda guy who likes moding my car. And if you're planning to do some serious mods, a fully programable fuel/timing computer is going to be the way to go. It may take some time, but before you know it, I'm shure someone like apexi will make something along the lines of the power fc for our cars. If you're not familiar with the p-fc, I suggest you do some searching in on the rx7club forum. Watch and see. I do know of a programable unit that will be coming out this month, but not everyone will be able to get the controler. Only tuners, from what I was told.

If you're a guy who just wants his car to run like it should have came from the factory, or don't plan on doing major mods to the car someday, then I'm shure the carzoomers ecu is the one for you.

Bottom line is, the 3rd gen guys have allready been through the burnt ecu vs. the programable war, (I know the 8 and the 3rd gen 7 are two entirely different cars.) and if you plan on doing something like a full exhaust, intake, porting the engine, then you're going to want something that can be dialed in to your car. Because no two cars are exactly the same.

Lets just hope that Mazda did'nt put the crackdown on carzoomer, and that everything works out in the end.

Originally posted by jtimbck2
Here's my take on it. I'll preface it by saying I've already paid Canzoomer my $500, and I have no doubts that the product will ship soon and be everything he's said it will be.

I suspect that he miscalculated the costs, and he's actually LOSING money on the first run selling them at US$500. But he's sticking to his word, and honoring the price anyway. That explains the sharp 50% price increase, and it explains why he's been a bit quiet about it on the forum (nobody wants to admit to a miscalculation like that...not only that, but he's probably been quietly waiting out the end of the $500 order period, hoping fewer people would actually order at that price...wouldn't you if you were losing money?)


That's all good and fine, but he is shooting his own foot. I believe that he will bleed even more with whats going on.

Few companies are probably doing ECU improvements, but you dont see them preaching about dates of shipment and prices.

But also remember that we were the ones pressing him for early information at the begining of development. Had we let him get more preliminary work done, maybe this current wait period might have been avoided. Just food for thought.

Lets just hope that Mazda did'nt put the crackdown on carzoomer

I had wondered about this myself but this is the first mention I've seen of it. Hmm.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets just hope that Mazda did'nt put the crackdown on carzoomer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had wondered about this myself but this is the first mention I've seen of it. Hmm.....

The only thing they can do is not sell him harnesses which I doubt is the case. They have no jurisdiction to tell him, "You can't make an ECU mod."

I have purchased things from him before with good success.

-Mr. Wigggles

Generally, it would have been better if he hadn't gotten right on the idea of selling them.
If he had kept his design cycle out in the open like he did, but without setting prices and "pre-selling", he would be under considerably less pressure and ultimately made the same sales.
If one attemts to be on the front of the wave, you have to bring your board. You can't expect that you will make one in the curl.

I've tried to do this with the E-Manage/MSD solution, even though I know that I will end up building systems for sale at some point once I am finished playing with it and have a more "plug-and-play" installation system. That has been my past experience with stuff that I have built/tested for my vehicles.
However, I'm not in any rush to make these things and I would never be able to mass-produce them.

I think its unfortunate that Maurice now finds himself at the business-end of the marketing cannon when what he set out to do was satisfy himself and help others do the same.

No pressure from Mazda. I suspect they are quietly wringing their hands in glee. See, THEY have to meet certain govt. regulations, knowing all the while the car's performance will suffer. THEY want to win some races. THEY support aftermarket products (and have stated so many times).

Canzoomer is under lots of pressure. Mostly from himself. He wants to get this thing out, and we will. Just not till the packaging is right. The programming and electronics works great and has done so for months now. It's so close now it hurts. There are finished boxes on the table right now. We are just finishing up the documentation, improving a few things, etc.

As for the title of this thread, we may finally do a dyno run this week, if we get time.

Friend... have Maurice sign on to your computer and just drop folks a quick note. Something brief from the man himself is better than dead silence.

My guess is that's what's driving people nuts.

Originally posted by BRx8
iworse comes to worse, have a colleague answer emails or post a status report here knowing very well ppl are anxious...


Oh, you mean someone like RX-8 friend, who has kept posting here quite regularly about the status of the development and assembly work? Considering that RX-8 friend is doing a bunch of the physical assembly of the kits, that should meet your requirements quite nicely. Oh wait, he already is posting regular status reports, answering questions, explained why canzoomer has not posted lately... hmm, so what was the complaint again?

Regards,
Gordon

I don't want to derail the post too much but a good example is Gordo above. He basically shat all over canzoomer, insulted him and look now, one of his biggest supporters! :cool:

Many of the gripes are from folks new to the game and some from the impatient ones. You can look back in hindsight and point a couple mis-steps here and there but I think canzoomer will eventually come through. Unless you're someone which canzoomer took money and hasn't responded then gripe (I believe that is not the case), otherwise sit down and go ride your bike or something.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Oh, you mean someone like RX-8 friend, who has kept posting here quite regularly about the status of the development and assembly work? Considering that RX-8 friend is doing a bunch of the physical assembly of the kits, that should meet your requirements quite nicely. Oh wait, he already is posting regular status reports, answering questions, explained why canzoomer has not posted lately... hmm, so what was the complaint again?

Regards,
Gordon


Hello, Hello, anybody home?. That statement is ridiculous.
That's all hearsay.
You mean that he can't take 5 minutes out of 1440 minutes of a day to write a reply?. Give me a break.

Uh... RX-8 Friend is responsible for the electronics of the units. How is that hearsay? He is directly involved in building every single one.

Because this is a Canzoomer's project. He really needs to write a reply to all his future customers.

I wish him good luck and hopefully this modification will be available soon.

Originally posted by RX8 fever
Because this is a Canzoomer's project. Is hearsay because is coming from the designated,helper (I guess) PR person.
Its like this: I'm doing a project but if I'm running into problems, I'll send the little guy to distract them for a little while. Trying to put down a forest fire with an 1 inch hose.
So, you're familiar with corporate America!?!

Originally posted by RX8 fever
Hello, Hello, anybody home?. That statement is ridiculous.
That's all hearsay.

Ridiculous how? My post was a direct response to BRx8 (not to you), who suggested worse comes to worse, have a colleague answer emails or post a status report here knowing very well ppl are anxious. I pointed out that this is already happening. Hearsay? Hardly! As you've already been informed, RX-8 friend is directly involved in assembling the kits. You're not alone in wanting information - what would you prefer, for canzoomer to spend his 4 free hours per day answering e-mails, or working out the final details of the kit so that it can actually ship soon?

As has been mentioned many, many times - this RX-8 ECU mod is a sideline for canzoomer, he has a much larger business with many employees to run.

Originally posted by brothervoodoo
I don't want to derail the post too much but a good example is Gordo above. He basically shat all over canzoomer, insulted him and look now, one of his biggest supporters! :cool:

Yeah, back in the days when canzoomer was going to return his RX-8 and get an Audi TT, we had our differences of opinion! ;) :p I've said it since then, and I have no problem saying it again, I really admire Maurice for deciding to stick with the RX-8 and put in this incredible amount of time and effort to address the ECU shortcoming, and then to offer it to others as well.

Remember, Maurice had his solution months ago, since then the work has been to develop a commercial offering for the rest of us. If enough of us complain, maybe he'll just drop it and enjoy life instead of having to put up with all the whining! Then we can all go and buy... what? Sorry, nobody else, not the established rotary aftermarket vendors or any other independent, has a marketable, proven, tested solution anywhere close to ready. Nobody.

RX-8 fever, are you interested in taking on a project as a sideline, giving up all your spare time outside of your very busy day job, and invest tens of thousands of dollars of your own money in equipment and components to offer a competitive solution for less than $750? I'll buy it if you will! Oh, but I won't pay you a penny until you're shipping all the units, properly tested, documented, and be sure to promptly answer my and the hundreds of other e-mails you receive daily asking for detailed technical information.

In plain words - I think canzoomer deserves a little slack, especially when the delays from the estimated ship dates are to implement final improvements to the product and documentation.

Regards,
Gordon

Well said Gordo. 'Zoomer is a perfectionist and will ensure that his product is top notch before sending it out. He is an honest and trustworthy individual and is a definite asset to all of us. Appreciate his efforts. Canzoomer is KING!!

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Sorry, nobody else, not the established rotary aftermarket vendors or any other independent, has a marketable, proven, tested solution anywhere close to ready. Nobody.

Well, except me.
Maybe you missed that one.

Originally posted by vix8
I sense a conspiracy brewing! Oh no!!!!!! :D

Now that's funny!

Vince

Originally posted by Maniac
Well, except me.
Maybe you missed that one.

:eek: I didn't think you were anywhere close to selling a kit yet - I thought you were closer to where Maurice was about 3 months ago, when he had finished evaluating his ECU box and was finalizing tuning parameters. Are you doing plug in harness connectors etc. as well?

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
:eek: I didn't think you were anywhere close to selling a kit yet - I thought you were closer to where Maurice was about 3 months ago, when he had finished evaluating his ECU box and was finalizing tuning parameters. Are you doing plug in harness connectors etc. as well?

Regards,
Gordon

You didn't qualify it that way.
You simply said a "marketable, proven, tested solution".
That is exactly what I have found.
It is already marketed by Greddy.
I've tested it and proven that it works.

What you are paying for and waiting on with Maurice's solution is packaging.
If you want results, they are already available if you are willing to put in the labor.
Right now.
$400.
http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/index.html

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gord96BRG

In plain words - I think canzoomer deserves a little slack, especially when the delays from the estimated ship dates are to implement final improvements to the product and documentation.

Regards,
Gordon


Agree:)

Ya know, were it me developing this, and I was coming down the final stretch to shipping the units, I would IGNORE this board and all the many threads where people were asking questions UNTIL I GOT THE UNITS OUT THE DOOR. That would be my top priority.

Maurice is the real deal, and I'm certain everyone who has ponied up will have their units soon.

Give the guy a break, this unit is worth the wait.

I received an email from Maurice (CanZoomer) this morning. Not lengthy but good to here from him none the less.

With regards to your message at 08:55 AM 12/29/03, Todd Gallemore. Where you stated:

Maurice- I just sent $525 via PayPal for a stage 1. Please confirm receipt of same. Is estimated shipping still 3rd week of January?

Thanks,


Yes , thanks Todd.

We will notify you a few days before it ships.




With our best regards,

Maurice W. Hilarius Telephone: 01-780-456-9771
Hard Data Ltd. FAX: 01-780-456-9772
11060 - 166 Avenue mailto:maurice@harddata.com
Edmonton, AB, Canada http://www.harddata.com/
T5X 1Y3

~...HAPPY HOLIDAYS !...~

my email from Maurice this morning stated an ETA of January 30th...

the email I received this morning acknowledged receipt of my order.

Maniac - I couldn't find anything RX-8 related on that link -at Greddy's site all I could find was an exhaust system. I couldn't find a search, and under new items there were no RX-8 items.

Originally posted by rx8daniel
Maniac - I couldn't find anything RX-8 related on that link -at Greddy's site all I could find was an exhaust system. I couldn't find a search, and under new items there were no RX-8 items.

I think he's referring to the generic E-Manage unit, which he has installed in his RX-8. IIRC, Maurice used the same or a very similar unit when he first started investigating the ECU tuning.

Maniac, I guess I was referring to a plug'n'play solution to get the 'missing' HP back. Yeah, programmable solutions are available, but for the average owner who buys an intake, exhaust, etc. and isn't familiar with tuning a programmable ECU and wants a quick plug-in solution for the over-rich problem, the Canzoomer mod is the only one close to being available.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
...the Canzoomer mod is the only one close to being available.

Regards,
Gordon

This is a very broad statement do you know everyone who could produce and market such a device and they have told you this?

Originally posted by kingcar
This is a very broad statement do you know everyone who could produce and market such a device and they have told you this?

Sigh. No, I don't. I do monitor and participate in this forum daily, however, and I would expect that if ANYONE else had something similar on the market now for the RX-8, either they would be posting it on this forum or someone would be posting it on this forum. That's reasonable, isn't it? If this forum hasn't heard of something available for the RX-8, then either there isn't anything available or else the person doing the marketing is doing an extremely poor job! ;)

I know there are others in the works; Racing Beat and Paul Yaw of Yawpower are just two that have indicated they are working on similar ECU mods. How close are they to being available? As far as we know - not very close, since no ship dates or availability dates have been announced.

If YOU know of any similar plug-in ECU mod that is close to being available, then by all means please share your information! The more choices, the better for all of us.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
I think he's referring to the generic E-Manage unit, which he has installed in his RX-8. IIRC, Maurice used the same or a very similar unit when he first started investigating the ECU tuning.

Maniac, I guess I was referring to a plug'n'play solution to get the 'missing' HP back. Yeah, programmable solutions are available, but for the average owner who buys an intake, exhaust, etc. and isn't familiar with tuning a programmable ECU and wants a quick plug-in solution for the over-rich problem, the Canzoomer mod is the only one close to being available.

Regards,
Gordon

Well, buy the unit, follow my instructions and use my maps and there you have it.
You could be driving it around before the end of the week.
If you prefer, I can get it all for you and send it over.

Originally posted by Maniac
Well, buy the unit, follow my instructions and use my maps and there you have it.
You could be driving it around before the end of the week.
If you prefer, I can get it all for you and send it over.

Maniac, how far are you in creating your own maps and how much HP do you think you can pull out of your e-manage and RX-8 safely?

Maurice doesn't deserve all this negativity.

Come on, give the guy a break. I've ordered from him, and trust him more than any other place I've ordered from. He's obviously doing this for everyone interest in the RX-8. The negativity by a few people on this forum with respect to delays, etc can be expected. But still, Maurice doesn't have to do this, and is going pretty far out of his way to help all of us out. I consider that to be a personal favour, and he deserves a lot of credit for the work he is doing, and all of the orders he is manually, and personally filling.

He's got a great product that everyone wants for their RX-8, and rather than deliver a less than perfect mod, he has the good judgement to do it right.

My Hat goes off for you Maurice!

Regards,

OverLOAD

Not only does canzoomer not deserve all this flak, he doesn't deserve someone posting their products in his forum.

i already bought CZ's Stage 1 and i'm not going back on that...i'm merely asking Maniac how his process is going and how good the Greddy emanage is since i've never touched one...all i've ever done in the past was the i/h/e, nothing else so i'm a complete newb when it comes to this type of modification and i just want to learn...i know i'll never buy a fully programmable ecu and program myself, at least until i actually use one (CZ's) and then start learning from there

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Sigh. No, I don't. I do monitor and participate in this forum daily, however, and I would expect that if ANYONE else had something similar on the market now for the RX-8, either they would be posting it on this forum or someone would be posting it on this forum. That's reasonable, isn't it? If this forum hasn't heard of something available for the RX-8, then either there isn't anything available or else the person doing the marketing is doing an extremely poor job! ;)

I know there are others in the works; Racing Beat and Paul Yaw of Yawpower are just two that have indicated they are working on similar ECU mods. How close are they to being available? As far as we know - not very close, since no ship dates or availability dates have been announced.

If YOU know of any similar plug-in ECU mod that is close to being available, then by all means please share your information! The more choices, the better for all of us.

Regards,
Gordon


I agree that if something else was on the market that it would have been posted here. I was merely stating that just because companies haven’t said that they are working on it or are close to release doesn’t mean that they don’t have something. Many companies like to keep things quite until they hit the market.

BTW, I posted a dyno plot from canzoomer. More to come!

OK, lots of flame so here goes:

1) We are busy building units, shipping, testing etc.

2) Over Christmas holidays I took some time to renovate our office. Removed everyhting, ripped out floors, etc, re-did floor, some wiring, moved servers, and so on. Ran into some renovation snags, finally got desks, computers, etc. back in place Tuesday.
Now catching up on over a week of missed email, postings, etc.
Also tried to have a holiday, with little success.

3) Received a LOT of orders, more than we frankly expected, working on more people, more parts, more facility to build.

4) Cost wise we make about $60 a unit at $500.
That is too little, but we can live with the fact that we promised this to the original people who expressed interest.
This is one reason we raised the price.

5) Other reason we raised the price is a lot of dealers and tuners want to buy and sell our products, and they expect/need a wholesale discount on volume orders. They need to make a few bucks too. Now we can do that.

6) At last part of development changed design one last time to fit in ECU enclosure, re-ordered wire assembly cables, for now we are building by hand here. Takes 2 to 3 man-hours a unit. In about a week we will have lots of pre-built harnesses from Hong Kong, and then our time per unit is down to about an hour.

7) Received about 700 orders. That means we had to invest about $300,000 to buld these. While we have wholesale accounts with some suppliers, others we have to pay in advance. Simply to finance this we HAD to get some orders paid. Now we are in pretty good shape.

Thanks for the good faith, support and some time, we are slowly getting everything in place. All of a sudden we are delaing with order processing on a massive scale, expectations of web sites, ( got domain registered, working on website) expectations of 7 hundred individuals asking questions all at once, expectations of dyno results. Now have the Dynojet runs done, and some charts are being posted here on the forum.

This WAS supposed to be a hobby sideline.
It has grown a bit.

However we still have our regular jobs, business, families, and lives to live.

We are moving as fast as humanly possible.

If anyone is serously concerned feel free to call me.
In the meantime, those who are involved, and who know me, have been answering a bit, and if you think this is some kind of massive conspiracy you have a lot more imagination than me!

Thanks Maurice! I'll wait patiently for mine. I'm not in a rush to build my grounding kit either as I don't drive it much in the winter. If you require a deposit via Paypal prior to a particular date, please post that.

Originally posted by Maniac
Well, buy the unit, follow my instructions and use my maps and there you have it.
You could be driving it around before the end of the week.
If you prefer, I can get it all for you and send it over.

Since you are now advertising on our forum, Maniac, where should I send the bill for the space and ads?

Hey Canzoomer, thankx for posting on this forum and relinquishing your valuable dyno sheet for someone to post. This will definitely curb any criticism from here out I think. I think all of this just stemmed from peoples anticipation of the product and not seeing any posts from you. It gets people wayyy too anxious(myself included).. so thankx!

David...

Originally posted by canzoomer
Since you are now advertising on our forum, Maniac, where should I send the bill for the space and ads?

Well, since I am not selling anything, I'd say straight into your fireplace.

Originally posted by Maniac
Well, since I am not selling anything, I'd say straight into your fireplace.

To quote you:
"If you prefer, I can get it all for you and send it over."

????

A bit impolite considering the setting.

As for the fireplace, I will ignore that remark.

Good day.

CZ: typically I don't speak up about criticism among members (bashing) on the forums; it can be such a waste.

..my two cents.

1.) The best way to win an argument is to not have one.

2.) Don't forum chat with Maniac anymore and lower yourself to his level; I consider his comments to you insulting.

If he's a real man, he'd apologize to you - because someone else (me) thought he was insulting.

...let's see what happens - either way, you win!

-jcs-

I think people are doing their forum cruising while way too tired. Tempers are short and there's a lot of childishness. Beleive me, I understand. I use the forum to wind down before retiring for the evening my self. Actually, that may be why I don't get to sleep very easily. Just remember, it's usually not personal. When it seems personal, take a break and come back later. You'll usually read the post in a completely different light after a few hours of sleep.

Just a general thought, not a responce to anything in particular. I seem to ask myself frequently: "Where'd all the flame come from."

...k_d....you could be right.

Seems to me that the people who would be interested in the Greddy unit are not likely to be interested in the CZ unit and vice versa.

Most of us are not that mechanically inclined, and would prefer a low-hassle, plug in, non-adjustable, stock-appearing, easily removable unit that we don't have to mess with and can trust not to damage our engine (the CZ unit).

A few may wish to deal with stripping wires and fine-tuning fuel mix parameters at the risk of engine damage, and those may prefer the Greddy unit.

Other than the end results, they appear to be non-competitors.

I noticed that although CZ contributed advice to Maniac's thread, he did NOT advertise or promote his unit on Maniac's thread.

This is not the proper thread to promote another product IMO, even if it seems to appeal to a slightly different market.

Wow, what a load of knee-jerk ad hominem reactions.

I am selling NOTHING.
I have NO commercial interest in the Greddy unit or anything similar. Nor do I have any aspirations for such.
I have offered nothing but support for Maurice's system and I highly suggest anyone who is interested in what it does to buy one.
I am NOT attempting to detract from Maurice's sales.

However, I will not suggest the device that Maurice is selling is the only course one can follow for the same result and I will not roll over and bow out of this forum just because it has "Canzoomer's Place" at the top of it.
It is public to all members of the RX-8 forum and this thread exists here for the very purpose that it has succeeded in - discussion of the Stage 1 box and its ramifications. If it is a real advertising forum, it should not be open to posting.

Maurice suggested that he should bill me for advertising in his forum.
I have nothing to advertise, I will receive no financial benefit and, as he must realize, there is no "politeness" in business.

I suggest that Maurice not ignore my "fireplace" comment. It wasn't in jest, nor was it meant to be light-hearted.

As long as I am not the "competition", I feel I have an obligation to point out the things I have done so far and until Maurice would like to compensate me as a spokesman for his product, I will continue to point out the options and I will do so at my discretion.

Proverbs 15:1

"a soft answer turneth away wrath; but grevious words stir up anger."

Greddy has not set up a vendor site on this forum at this point.

Canzoomer has a vendor site on the forum this at this point.

Maniac states he has numbers and info on how to use the Greddy unit, but does not have a vendor site at this time.

Sometimes, people need recognition for their efforts:

.....Good job to both Canzoomer and Maniac for their hard work an effort with the RX-8!

reading back to what Maniac previously posted, i don't believe he was trying to sell anything at all but offering help to those that would like to pursue another course of action...i don't think he even mentioned compensation for his maps...i think we need to give BOTH CZ and Maniac a break cuz this tension is clearly going nowhere, especially when it's just a slight misunderstanding...

i agree with Speed-ER Doc above...i'm one of those ppl =P i'm not as mechanically inclined on cars as i am with computers and i'd much rather buy a preexisting piggyback unit than one i program myself, until, of course, i learn how to do it myself...the best i can do is use CZ's for now continually read up on the subject...maybe my next car i'll buy a fully programmable one, who knows...right now, i just want to break the rear tires lose at 5k!

Maniac.
Thanks for your e-manage postings. I learned a lot from your work. I also think that you weren't trying to sell anything.
Just trying to help with another modality that is /or will be available to us.

I'm sure we all appreciate the availability of other solutions to our problems/desires, and we are equally appreciative of Maniac's testing and postings.

I personally am gled to see reproducible results with similar mods.

All I said was this is not the proper thread to promote a competitor's product.

Isn't that obvious? It should be. This is Canzoomer's place. Might as well go to his house and hit on his wife while you're at it. :)

No offense, I just like analogies.

Better analogy:

You walk into the local Sharper Image store (or Brookstone or similar) and you hear a customer telling other customers that the only place they can buy alkaline AA batteries for that cool shiatsu massager is there in the store - AA battteries from anywhere else wont work.
Would you stand for that?
I wouldn't.

But Canzoomer never told us that we don't have a choice.

If you go into Sharper Image, you can direct customers to other vendors or sources that are NOT YOUR OWN. Usually, when you know a customer is getting ripped off or given inaccurate information and you want to play Good Sumaritan, you wait for an opportune moment, like when the salesperson is away for a minute. If you want to direct the customer to yourself, you do as before AND you whisper real quietly.

Problem is, you can't whisper in here. Maybe possibly (it's debatable) you could mention alternatives or options to others in Canzoomer's Place that are NOT YOUR OWN. For example, bringing up E-Manage might possibly be ok. But you can't direct others TO YOURSELF in Canzoomer's Place.

I have a better analogy.

Canzoomer = ECU

Maniac = piggyback ECU

Maniac rides Canzoomer's coattails, manipulating and redirecting certain bits of information to produce desired effect.

Fundamental difference: Canzoomer's Stage 1 piggyback successfully "tricks" ECU. Maniac is unsuccessful in "tricking" Canzoomer.

Have you ordered yet shift-zoom8? And thanks for the backup. I like your reasoning, at least in this thread. :)

Originally posted by Maniac
Better analogy:

You walk into the local Sharper Image store (or Brookstone or similar) and you hear a customer telling other customers that the only place they can buy alkaline AA batteries for that cool shiatsu massager is there in the store - AA battteries from anywhere else wont work.
Would you stand for that?
I wouldn't.

Nah, better analogy:

You walk into the local coffee shop where a group of regulars meets daily to discuss batteries, and you discuss the merits of Energizer vs. Duracell batteries (Canzoomer ECU mod vs. e-manage, Racing Beat, Yawpower, etc). No problem with that at all - but THAT coffee shop is the Mazdaspeed/Aftermarket Performance section of the forum (or The Tech Garage).

You walk into the local Everready store and start debating with the staff and customers that the Duracell batteries are better - that's not great at all, and that's the equivalent of the concern of what's going on here (IF a vendor of an alternate solution were doing that).

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by shift_zoom8
But Canzoomer never told us that we don't have a choice.

No, Gord96BRG did.



Originally posted by shift_zoom8
If you go into Sharper Image, you can direct customers to other vendors or sources that are NOT YOUR OWN.


Exactly what I was pointing out in the posts above. I have nothing to sell and no vested interest in any product.


Originally posted by shift_zoom8
Usually, when you know a customer is getting ripped off or given inaccurate information and you want to play Good Sumaritan [sic], you wait for an opportune moment, like when the salesperson is away for a minute. If you want to direct the customer to yourself, you do as before AND you whisper real quietly.

One would whisper only if one is a coward. I would give such information in such a way that the person offering such misinformation would be aware of my redirection as well.
That was my point to Gord96BRG. I have said nothing to Maurice to suggest his product isn't what it is claimed to be.
I will say it again:
THE STAGE ONE MOD FROM CANZOOMER IS EXACTLY WHAT MANY, IF NOT MOST PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM WANT FOR RETREIVING THE "LOST" 20 HP ON THE RX-8.


Originally posted by shift_zoom8
Problem is, you can't whisper in here. Maybe possibly (it's debatable) you could mention alternatives or options to others in Canzoomer's Place that are NOT YOUR OWN. For example, bringing up E-Manage might possibly be ok. But you can't direct others TO YOURSELF in Canzoomer's Place.

I never directed anyone to myself because I HAVE NOTHING TO SELL.
I simply offered to help anyone who might be interested in the benefits of the E-Manage system to acquire one because I have already ordered the stuff for myself and I know what to order to reproduce the results. Greddy is not helpful in this regard. I offered this at no charge because, once again, I HAVE NOTHING TO SELL.
I am not in the tuning business.


Originally posted by shift_zoom8
I have a better analogy.

Canzoomer = ECU

Maniac = piggyback ECU

This is incorrect. Both systems are piggyback.

Originally posted by shift_zoom8
Maniac rides Canzoomer's coattails, manipulating and redirecting certain bits of information to produce desired effect.

This is actually an interesting statement. Mostly, I think, because I don't understand it. Which information did I redirect or manipulate? I am over 3000 miles from Maurice, so coercion is not likely.

Originally posted by shift_zoom8
Fundamental difference: Canzoomer's Stage 1 piggyback successfully "tricks" ECU. Maniac is unsuccessful in "tricking" Canzoomer.

I don't quite see what that meant either, semantically, logically or factually.
Please direct any further comments to my PM so we don't bother anyone else with this.

Originally posted by Maniac
Wow, what a load of knee-jerk ad hominem reactions.

I am selling NOTHING.
I have NO commercial interest in the Greddy unit or anything similar. Nor do I have any aspirations for such.
I have offered nothing but support for Maurice's system and I highly suggest anyone who is interested in what it does to buy one.
I am NOT attempting to detract from Maurice's sales.


I agree with you quite a bit.

The only areas that I feel uncomfortable with are:
1) If you do this, provide instructions on how to install it, and people go out and do it "homebrewed" there ARE going to be a few people who do considerable damage to their cars.

A classic example is the thread where info is given on re-connecting the fog lights to work independently of the headlights.

We have already seen 3 or 4 cases where people did not pay close enough attantion, and popped a fuse because they used the wrong wire, or shorted wires out. In those cases the damage was merely a fuse.

If you cut and connect the wrong wires in the ECU harness you create considerably higher levels of risk. In quite a few instances people could end up frying their ECU. That is a $1,000 or higher "OOPS".

2) We pay for this forum.
I politely mentioned that if you post on it how to do roughly the same thing as what we are selling, it might not be taken as a friendly gesture.
The work we did , the commitments we made, and the raw dollars and time we invested started with a process like you followed, but on a much greater scale, and over a longer time period.
along the way we too found the Greddy could tune this car. However it is NOT perfect, it does not work out of the box properly in some aspects, and we realized that we had to have a board with some customization for the RX-8 to do the job completely.

In return we have to make a few dollars to pay for this investment.

Telling people how they can "home brew" the same thing can only erode our efforts to some degree.

Sometimes we make the choice to do a public disclosure of a method like this ourselves.
A typical example is where I posted the info on how to build your own ground cable set. We sell the original Mazda sets, yet made the decision to post the info.

The reasons we used to make this decision are similar to what I mention above:
Doing it badly will not cause damage.
The parts are readily available off the shelf.

Also the price of the Mazda set is a bit astronomical, in my opinion. We still get sales on those grounding kits however, as not everyone has the skills, tools, time, and parts sources for building their own.


However, I will not suggest the device that Maurice is selling is the only course one can follow for the same result and I will not roll over and bow out of this forum just because it has "Canzoomer's Place" at the top of it.
It is public to all members of the RX-8 forum and this thread exists here for the very purpose that it has succeeded in - discussion of the Stage 1 box and its ramifications. If it is a real advertising forum, it should not be open to posting.

Maurice suggested that he should bill me for advertising in his forum.
I have nothing to advertise, I will receive no financial benefit and, as he must realize, there is no "politeness" in business.

I suggest that Maurice not ignore my "fireplace" comment. It wasn't in jest, nor was it meant to be light-hearted.

As long as I am not the "competition", I feel I have an obligation to point out the things I have done so far and until Maurice would like to compensate me as a spokesman for his product, I will continue to point out the options and I will do so at my discretion.

Hey Maniac. I suggest you lighten up a bit.
MY comment was meant lightly, and just a little prod to remind you that you have walked into ##MY## place and threw around some comments that ##COULD## be taken badly by an individual who is thinner skinned than me.

I also tried to help you with your project by contributing info as needed.

I am a moderator on these forums. You might notice that I have chosen to leave your postings intact. No edits, no removed messages, no posting bans..
I believe very strongly in free speech.
I also believe very strongly in good manners.

I DO have to point out that Greddy do NOT provide their e-tune software to end users, and this is only provided to their dealer/tuners.
While I know pirated copies of it are floating around, remember that there are real reasons why Greddy choose to make this software restricted.

If you are going to post a "how to" on my ( or any other) forum on doing something that involves a significant level of risk of damage, then I suggest you should first post some details pointing this out, and maybe should clear the postings with the list moderator first..

We value the work you have done, and the info you posted here.
As you mention the power gains and the usefulness of this are very real.
A few people had skeptically posted earlier that they felt that one could not gain significant power throught re-tuning.
You have proven our point quite clearly that the gains ARE available through re-tuning.
This is independant verification of our process and we appreciate it.

It is a lot better than some of the absolutely bullshit claims we have already seen about exhaust and intake systems posted various places.

Even MazdaSpeed make no power claims about their cat-back exhaust. They say it sounds good, but that it makes no significant change in power.
Others have done engine dyno tests with wide open pipes, and on a stock tuned engine saw only a 5HP gain.

The only way one is going to see any significant gains with bolt-on parts is by also installing something that will properly tune the engine to proper fuel/air ratios.
Otherwise the increases in air flow will simply cause the ECU to dump in even MORE fuel, which is the WORST thing thatcould be done!!

We, and others, have tested our unit and made clearly noticeable gains in power, and in useful power. On cars with improved exhausts they make even more noticeable and useful power.
You have provided clear and useful comments and tests.
For us, for the other RX-8 owners, and for those who are considering buying an RX-8 that is valuable.

Thanks!

Thank you for your understanding, kind words and, most importantly, your incredible effort in this massive undertaking.

I certainly would have had to work much harder to achieve what I did without your help and insight.

As far as "lightening up", I hope you understand that I view this as entertainment.
I enjoy the conflict and also derive some sick satisfaction in the illogical and angry posts from some of the other members of this thread.:p

I PM'ed Omicron to see about having this thread just plain closed (or perhaps moved to the lounge) as it is pretty counterproductive and probably isn't doing anyone any good being here in your forum area.

With regard to damaging one's vehicle, I think everyone has indicated that you do such modifications at your own risk.
I know that is clear in my E-Manage threads and I assume you will make the same point with regard to your box as well.

Failure to follow instructions clearly or realize one's own limitations is an important part of Darwin's theories I suspect.;)

Thanks again.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
Have you ordered yet shift-zoom8? And thanks for the backup. I like your reasoning, at least in this thread. :)

I haven't ordered yet. I'm waiting to hear more data, both dynos and buyers' comments.

I'll most likely go with Canzoomer's in 6 months or so. I don't know a thing about programming my own maps. LOL. Plus, for some reason, I trust Canzoomer's general competence in whatever he does. I don't know for sure, but I've met individuals whom I think Canzoomer is similar to, and it wouldn't matter if they were competing against Racing Beat or GREDDY or whatever, their ability and general competence would still be at the highest level.

Ok everyone, that's enough please. Let's discontinue this back and forth and just discuss the products at hand. If it continues, this thread WILL be deleted. Thanks.

Originally posted by Maniac


With regard to damaging one's vehicle, I think everyone has indicated that you do such modifications at your own risk.
I know that is clear in my E-Manage threads and I assume you will make the same point with regard to your box as well.

Failure to follow instructions clearly or realize one's own limitations is an important part of Darwin's theories I suspect.;)

Thanks again.

First off, thanks for the friendly and constructive answer!

Secondly, I fully agree with the Darwin's theory comments, BUT:
When we SELL a product we have to assume some of the responsibility.
One of the big reasons I was stressed as that if you are posting this on my forums, there might be some implication that we endorse this.
We don't
We sell a product. It has been tested thoroughly to be safe for use.
Anything else is TOTALLY at your own risk!

For example if we miswired one of our units, and it made the ECU in sombodies car go "Phut" then we would pay for it.

If they do it themselves, however, I would probably restrain form making any comments, and simply think "Hmm, I warned the silly bastard!"

As the proud owner of a set of fried coil packs, I have danced with Darwin a bit myself..

BTW, read your metering of the ignition pulse voltages.
A hint: Check some more..

Especially at higher rpm, and check temperatures of coils, etc..

So, do people mind if I close this thread now?