Ordered my RX-8 today. Titanium Grey, black cloth and touring package. Decided I wanted a roof... also realize that based on what I have read so far, there is a fair chance I won't be thrilled with the interior or driving experience and won't take delivery. Wouldn't want to stick my dealer with a stripper, they are good guys over there.

Mine was the only RX-8 order they got. No one else even came in. It is a small family-owned dealership, but in an upscale suburb of Pittsburgh and the dealer has a great reputation. People living nearby have money. Just little interest from them. The dealer was calling me constantly to get me to come in and order, and only took a $100 deposit. (Now I know I get a test drive for sure... :) )I think they were afraid no one was going to order one and really needed to get one in. Honestly, I was not all that enthused to go in and order the car after the lackluster reviews of the driving experience and the interior. I stopped at the VW dealer on the way home and was thinking I may actually get more enjoyment from adding a new GTI 1.8T to my fleet rather than an RX-8. I know it is a blast to drive (I had a 2000 model) plus it has a high-grade interior, FWD for winter driving, and a hatch for utility. Plus $9,000 less LOL.

It does not seem like the RX-8 is a must-have car in the way of the first-gen
RX-7, Miata, or lately and to a lesser extent, the 350Z. I'm starting to wonder if I should have waited to get one off the lot at a discount. I hope the upcoming reviews of the production models get me excited again!

Originally posted by DonG35Miata
... the lackluster reviews of the driving experience...

Where did you read that? Honestly, have some faith in the company that produced fine machines such as the RX-7 and Miata. While it might not be the acceleration rocket like the Subaru WRX STi, it will out handle most other cars out there. Why do I say this? One look at the Mazda's Miyoshi Proving Ground will show you Mazda’s dedication to developing great handling sport cars. If you are still in doubt, I’ll post a video that will demonstrate the RX-8 handling prowess. Look for it the Multimedia section shortly.

I have faith in the wizards at Mazda to do right with the RX-8. Beside, it’s drop dead gorgeous.

:eek: *drool* :eek:

Good Duck asked: Where did you read that?

Automobile Magazine: "doesn't feel particularly entertaining" regarding the handling.

Car, U.K. : engine feels "unremarkable" in its power delivery

Motor Trend: Lacks the edge of the 350Z.

Car and Driver: 0-60 estimates in the mid-6 second range

I haven't seen much fawning over the RX-8, which is what one likes to see in a performance car review.

See my post Damning with faint praise? (http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1448&highlight=damning) and revhappy's excellent reply. It sums it up pretty well IMHO.

Don,

I haven't ordered yet but I have nearly settled on my configuration: Titanium Grey, black cloth and touring package.

Looks like I can't drive around Pittsburgh anymore. :D :D :D

Since I ordered last night I am starting to get psyched. I'm counting on Mazda delivering the goods and making something that is exciting to drive, not merely fast, comfortable and competent. But if it doesn't turn me on when I sit in it and drive it, it will be staying at the dealership.... and if the 0-60 time is over 6.5 seconds I won't even consider it...

What is it with everybody and the performance specs? "...and if the 0-60 time is over 6.5 seconds I won't even consider it..."

To give you some perspective, when I purchased my 1981 RX-7 brand new, it had 105 HP, 100 flb torque and weighed about 2345 lbs (without my big butt). It wasn't the fastest off the line. It probably had a 0-60 well over 6.5 seconds, but it was a blast to drive. It loved to be pushed hard. Cornering and handling were so much fun.

I personally don't need to prove my man-hood by drag racing every dork I meet at a traffic light. Just give me reasonable acceleration (subjective I know) and great handling. I think the RX-8 will deliver those qualities. It will be a blast.

All the magazine and online reports you've read are on pre-production cars from a few months ago. My guess is Mazda is dramatically fine tuning the suspensions before full production starts up in a few months. They have lots of time to tweak.

Personally, I'm not concerned about its performance. I trust Mazda. My RX-7 lasted me 21 years (until I sold it) and I loved it every day (except trying to get it through emissions testing...go Renesis!)

I don't read into what the critics say at this point. They are not really considering the price of the car. What else is there (RWD, manual, 4 seater) for ~ $30K?

Plus, these are the same critics that test drive super cars like the new Enzo Ferrari or the 911 turbo on a regular basis. They will easily find faults with the RX-8.

I think it will be a different story when they test the RX-8 as a production car with a section in the specs listing the MSRP.

What is it with everybody and the performance specs? "...and if the 0-60 time is over 6.5 seconds I won't even consider it..."

It isn't about proving manhood at traffic lights. I don't drag race AT ALL. It is about being competitive in the marketplace and getting performance comparable to competitors around the same price point. If the RX-8 is about as quick as Accord/Mazda 6 V6 sedans it will not be providing adequate go for the $ and car class IMHO. This isn't a sedan... it IS a specialty sports car, and it should outperform a comparably priced sedan. You pay more for the car, more for the insurance, more for the maintenance, and give up space. There should be a noticeable difference in performance.

If Mazda wants to call it a sports car, I am going to hold them to that standard. It looks for certain that it will be significantly less quick than a comparably priced 350Z or G35 coupe, but I can live with that. For the $30k that my car will cost, though, I think 0-60 in 6 flat is not out of line. A heavier G35 sedan with automatic does 0-60 in just a few more ticks than that. Surely a 6-speed RX-8 should be able to do 6.0 to 60. When Mazda promoted the concept car, they started at 5.0 to 60, then 6.0 with the first RX-8 development models, now we are up to low-mid 6s for production models. Weight is around 150lbs heavier than we were expecting. Not a good trend, and I have not forgotten about the Miatas that were around 10% under their advertised hp a year or two ago.

I want to test drive my RX-8, fall in love with it, and take it home. I've been thinking about it more and more lately and can't wait for it to get in. But based on what I have read in the media, I am going in with both eyes open.

BTW, I had a 1981 RX-7 too. Fun, sure... but easily outperformed in a straight line AND in the curves by today's econoboxes. You need to compare to class to class within a generation. A great car for its time, but sad to say pretty crude today. I almost bought a used one and upon a test drive, I realized some things are left as memories in the past...

PS According to Car and Driver, 1981 RX-7 did 0-60 in 9.6 seconds for a GS 5-speed, over 10 for the heavier GSL. I have the back issues...:)

Originally posted by kwolfman
What is it with everybody and the performance specs? "...and if the 0-60 time is over 6.5 seconds I won't even consider it..."

To give you some perspective, when I purchased my 1981 RX-7 brand new, it had 105 HP, 100 flb torque and weighed about 2345 lbs (without my big butt). It wasn't the fastest off the line. It probably had a 0-60 well over 6.5 seconds, but it was a blast to drive. It loved to be pushed hard. Cornering and handling were so much fun.

I personally don't need to prove my man-hood by drag racing every dork I meet at a traffic light. Just give me reasonable acceleration (subjective I know) and great handling. I think the RX-8 will deliver those qualities. It will be a blast.

All the magazine and online reports you've read are on pre-production cars from a few months ago. My guess is Mazda is dramatically fine tuning the suspensions before full production starts up in a few months. They have lots of time to tweak.

Personally, I'm not concerned about its performance. I trust Mazda. My RX-7 lasted me 21 years (until I sold it) and I loved it every day (except trying to get it through emissions testing...go Renesis!)

What is with everybody downplaying the performance specs. If you want a car that is a blast to drive and low on power then you can get that from a Miata. The RX cars at least since the 3rd generation about handling and speed. The RX-8 shouldn't just be a 4 seat Miata. I know that it is not a replacement for the RX-7, but it is still an RX and that should mean something. Sometimes people act like the 350Z is an 80's Camero or something. Cars with torque and fast 0-60 and 1/4 mile are not evil and you don't have to be a stoplighting punk to want power in a sports car. I don't want an MG or a Miata. I also don't want a Camero or Mustang. If I can't have a new RX-7 (or maybe just choose to have 4 seats) that doesn't mean I want to have to make excuses to people about how my car doesn't need to be fast and tell them that they just don't get it. If the RX-8 wasn't supposed to be a powerful car then Mazda wouldn't be making a big deal about 247 horsepower.

That's not to say that I don't think the the RX-8 will be a great car. However, I understand why people want it to have some kick and I agree with Don that if it performs like a 6 then it won't be worth it. Then it will be all show and no go. Hell, any car on the market now looks like a miracle sports car compared to something from the 40's but you have to compare to what is out there now to tell if it is worth 30k.

Amen..preach on brother :)

I still think this car has plenty of power to deliver excellent performance, but the weight and gearing just may bring it down. To me, the numbers Buger put up for acceleration for an ~3000 lb. car are borderline acceptable IF the car handles amazingly.

When I say amazingly, I mean exciting, near tops in its price range for SPORTS CARS (this car advertizes itself as such). I'm sure they can make it comfortable and stable, but sports cars are meant to be exhilirating. This is my biggest concern, based on these reviews and the advertizing on the mazda site (a lot of emphasis put on non-performance/sports car things). Since this car is trying to do alot of different things, I don't think its unfair to be skeptical. $27-30K is still a lot of money and I don't like buying new cars very often!

My appologies to DonG35Miata. I didn't mean to jump down his throat about the 6.5 second performance spec. I was just reacting to his yes/no decision about one specific performance spec. I just wanted to state that, for me, I consider the whole spectrum of performance for a car before I say yes/no.

My bringing up my 81 RX7 was an example of this. Yes, 0-60 was somewhere around 9.5 seconds and there were times when I would have liked a little more umph, but that didn't deter me from really liking the car. Sure, by today's standards, the 81 RX7 was really quite primative, but in some sense that was part of its appeal. It had the feeling of 60's British sports car with its ox cart ride (quite a pounding in the kidneys). It was quick reving and would take a pounding too. I found that if I hadn't driven it for a while, it felt stiff, but drive it hard for a bit, it would loosen up and seem to ask for more.

As Mazda has stated, the RX8 is not an RX7. I expect great performance, but not necessarily in every category. For me, this car has a practical side too. 4-doors serves my family well (as did 2 doors back in 81). If it gives me the fun of driving feel like my RX7 did, I'll be happy.

Yeah...what he said. :) My thoughts exactly.

Originally posted by Fëakhelek


What is with everybody downplaying the performance specs. If you want a car that is a blast to drive and low on power then you can get that from a Miata. The RX cars at least since the 3rd generation about handling and speed. The RX-8 shouldn't just be a 4 seat Miata. I know that it is not a replacement for the RX-7, but it is still an RX and that should mean something. Sometimes people act like the 350Z is an 80's Camero or something. Cars with torque and fast 0-60 and 1/4 mile are not evil and you don't have to be a stoplighting punk to want power in a sports car. I don't want an MG or a Miata. I also don't want a Camero or Mustang. If I can't have a new RX-7 (or maybe just choose to have 4 seats) that doesn't mean I want to have to make excuses to people about how my car doesn't need to be fast and tell them that they just don't get it. If the RX-8 wasn't supposed to be a powerful car then Mazda wouldn't be making a big deal about 247 horsepower.

That's not to say that I don't think the the RX-8 will be a great car. However, I understand why people want it to have some kick and I agree with Don that if it performs like a 6 then it won't be worth it. Then it will be all show and no go. Hell, any car on the market now looks like a miracle sports car compared to something from the 40's but you have to compare to what is out there now to tell if it is worth 30k.

The performance of the RX-8 hasn't really been tested yet. Every magazine had only a few minutes with a rough "far from production" version of the car. IIRC, Nissan did the same thing with the 350z early on and got similar mixed reviews.

When the production version is actually given a full test by magazines, I think that the results will be very good. However, make sure your deposits are refundable just in case. ;)

The problem is that your basic family sedan has gotten so good and so fast that it's difficult to justify a sports car that isn't any faster.

The last time this happened was the late 60s - a lot of people would shy away from an MGB when for the same price you could get a Plymouth Roadrunner that was much faster in a straight line.

In the 70s and 80s, sports cars handily outperformed family sedans which rarely had anything more than 120 hp.

However, in 2003, the Honda Accord has 240 hp instead of 102 hp. The Mazda 6 has 220 hp to the old 626's 110 hp. The Nissan Altima is capable of a sub-six-second 0-60 time and a quarter mile time deep in the 14s. This was all unimaginable just ten or even five years ago.

But while these cars are fast in a straight line, and even their handling numbers look good, they still are no substitute for a truly sporting car. The Mazda 6 comes closest, but it still is FWD and isn't class leading in acceleration anyway.

It's the driving pleasure that separates the RX-8 and 350Z, not the numbers. What do you want, 0-60 in 4.5s in a $30,000 car? We are probably probing the limits of performance in a mass market car.

Like has been said before, how many other RWD, 250 hp cars can be had that weigh under 3000 lbs, and have a manual transmission, for $27,000? I'm not expecting the razor's edge handling of the RX-7, in fact that's probably a good thing as the FD would put an unexperienced driver right in the weeds when pushed. The longer wheelbase and more linear power delivery will serve to keep the shiny side up and the pointy end forward.

If you're worried about your manhood, keep in mind that something like 75-80% of those "oh so fast" family sedans order the 4 cylinder with the automatic transmission, so you won't need to worry about getting burned by every Accord you see.

Originally posted by SmokingClutch
It's the driving pleasure that separates the RX-8 and 350Z, not the numbers. What do you want, 0-60 in 4.5s in a $30,000 car? We are probably probing the limits of performance in a mass market car.
And sometimes driving pleasure involves power and speed. A sub 6sec 0-60 is all that was expected. Some of us may even want to roadrace/autocross it occasionally too.

Like has been said before, how many other RWD, 250 hp cars can be had that weigh under 3000 lbs, and have a manual transmission, for $27,000?
None now and maybe none later seeing as how the car may actually weigh 3000+lbs.


I'm not expecting the razor's edge handling of the RX-7, in fact that's probably a good thing as the FD would put an unexperienced driver right in the weeds when pushed.
Some of us aren't inexperienced and would like it to handle as well. And I actually don't doubt that it will. It's the power that's more in question.

If you're worried about your manhood, keep in mind that something like 75-80% of those "oh so fast" family sedans order the 4 cylinder with the automatic transmission, so you won't need to worry about getting burned by every Accord you see.
It's not a question of manhood. It's what some of us expected from a car that is marketed as a $30k 'sportscar'. Like someone said in an earlier post, I would also just get a Miata if I wanted a car that was very fun and didn't care about power. You should get the lower performance engine. The lower one should be good enough for you. Car will handle the same. Just as fun for you. If they come out with a Mazdaspeed version or enhance the engine in a year or two or ten years from now, don't get it because you don't need it. That's fine. But some of us will.

Feakhelek's post sums it up perfectly as to why many have asked for more power. For some it may not be an issue, but there is nothing wrong with wanting more, especially since many of us were hoping that this new resurrection of the rotary would top the 3rd gen RX7 in every way (both handling and power).

I also wanted to say that that was the knock on the NSX also. It really is marvel of technology and handles like a dream. But for the cost, compared to competition, people said that it is lacking in power. And it is exactly what a couple acquaintances (sp?) who actually do own cars in the price range and above have said and their money has gone elsewhere.

And all critiqueing aside, I am still considering this car and will wait to drive it before any decisions are made. And the expressing of opinions whether they be praise or criticism is part of the fun of waiting for a car launch. It gives everyone something to discuss about the car while waiting for it to show up.

you guys bitch about the 0-60 time and you might push mazda into doing what toyota did to the celica, extend 1st and 2nd so there is only 1 gear change but dropped it out of the powerband. so now you have a better 0-60 but 1/4 mi suffers and the overall feel of the car is upset. autoxer's get irritated, drag racer's get irritated, and your average joe is annoyed as well. you need to look at the overall picture, not one part. if the car can way under the z and fit compensating and/or the same tire widths, the cornering of this car will be better then the fd with its stiffer chassis let alone decimate the z in cornering g's. also for us modding enthusiasts, we all know that rotaries love to breath freely. not sure how bottled the cats are on it, but a freer flowing exhaust will probably yield far better results then the z. and you can have 2 more friends along for this g seeking prowess.

Originally posted by jeremy
you guys bitch about the 0-60 time and you might push mazda into doing what toyota did to the celica, extend 1st and 2nd so there is only 1 gear change but dropped it out of the powerband. so now you have a better 0-60 but 1/4 mi suffers

Most of us are very familiar with 'the whole package'. We use 0-60 because it is an indicator that is very familiar to most people. If I wanted all out drag car power, I would have asked for nothing less than a 5.0 sec 0-60 minimum. A 6 sec 0-60 is not that fast and not too much to expect from a $30k 'sportscar'. I could just as easily say I want faster 0-50 and 5/8 mile times. It doesn't matter to me what the measurements are. But they still are an indication of the car's potential and a point of comparison to other cars.
Also no, we don't want the 1/4 mile time to suffer for 0-60 also. Last thing we need is a 5 sec 0-60 and a 17sec 1/4 mile time. I want both. I want power every where. I want 30mph- 80mph power. I want it to out power the 3rd gen RX7 on the straightaway and outhandle it on the curves. The 3rd gen was the car I had my eye on for years, but was scared to buy it due to reliability issues. My friend actually bought one last year and I was jealous. But the first time we took it out on the roadcourse, it blew a seal and he sold it 2 weeks later. So I never really wanted to buy one again after that.
And the car companies would never bring over Type-R's, ST's, Evo, etc if people didn't ask for more. Bring on the Mazdaspeed for us who want more. Everyone else can just be happy with what they have. Just realize that different people want/expect different things. Someone that just wants a great handling, peppy, rear wheel car that can carry passengers will be happy as a clam with a automatic base model. I'm happy for them. But I may want a little more.
And what's funny is, you are already talking about modding. Why? It's got plenty of power for you remember?

Originally posted by jeremy
and you can have 2 more friends along for this g seeking prowess.

Speaking of passengers, I had a funny thought. There are posts all through the forum on the weight of the car with people wondering if it will weigh 2900 lbs or 3000 lbs and many will be disappointed if it is 3000. Even if it is 2900 as soon as somebody gets in the passenger seat it won't make a difference, let alone putting 2 people in the back. That at least is one advantage a car with higher torque has: heavier passengers will have less effect.

The funny part is this. I have never autocrossed so I can't be sure but I've never heard anyone talk about the driver's weight. Now I have this picture stuck in my head of a autocrosser going on a crash diet to get ready for a race so he can drop 10 or 20 lbs from his car's weight. :D Somehow I just can't imagine all autocross drivers looking like horse racing jockeys. Imagine a bunch of 5'4" 100 lb guys hanging out talking about their race wins. :D

imagine them autocrossing with 3 other people in the car hahaha:D

imagine them autocrossing with 3 other people in the car hahaha

Hahhaha? What's so funny? It is a GREAT idea! A four person showroom stock racing series... one driver, and three ballast. Now the whole family can enjoy the adrenaline rush, competitiveness, and danger of racing! The car does have "suicide doors"...

You will need 4x the ambulances at the races though... but it raises the stakes and makes it even more exciting. After the crash you will still be in suspense after the driver exits the car OK... what better way to show off the four door, four seat sports car? (announcer) Daddy is getting out of the car... looks like he is OK! But what about mommy... and little Billy and little Suzy? :p

Originally posted by DonG35Miata
[QUOTE]imagine them autocrossing with 3 other people in the car hahaha[QUOTE]

What's so funny? It is a great idea!
yeah that should have been hahaha"wouldn't that be cool" not hahaha "that's funny". now if anyone wants to use the idea remember i said it first!;) :p :D

See my edited post, zoom... we could be on to something big...

Originally posted by Fëakhelek

The funny part is this. I have never autocrossed so I can't be sure but I've never heard anyone talk about the driver's weight. Now I have this picture stuck in my head of a autocrosser going on a crash diet to get ready for a race so he can drop 10 or 20 lbs from his car's weight. :D

My friends and I have joked about taking a big dump before going out there just to try to lose 5lbs!:D

Originally posted by nk_Rx8


My friends and I have joked about taking a big dump before going out there just to try to lose 5lbs!:D

That is freakin' hillarious! :D :D

Originally posted by nk_Rx8
And what's funny is, you are already talking about modding. Why? It's got plenty of power for you remember?

i never said it had enough power for me. i had a wrx and still wished it had a bit more grunt and the turbo would kick in earlier. all i'm saying is that they may fix it for you if the masses start shouting low 0-60 times, and typically that is how they will fix it. i don't think the torque fairy is going to swoop down and grace the wankel with torque sans forced induction. as for the reliability of the 3rd gen, it does eat money but can be very reliable if you are smart in tuning and maintenance. turbo 2nd gens can pop just as easy. 2 rules: no overheating/quick temp changes and no detonation. people mod 3rd gens w/o knowing their stuff or taking a risk and it bites them. i agree with wanting a better 0-60, but they are close enough to production now that you will probably get screwed on gearing to better it. since i take it from your posts that you autox, then you should be more worried about gearing and staying in the powerband. moreover, a wide enough powerband to mainly stay in 2nd.

dong35miata: vast difference there in autoxing and door to door racing. hold the ambulance.;)

jeremy said: DonG35miata: vast difference there in autoxing and door to door racing. hold the ambulance.

I know... I was proposing a track series... I can just see these RX-8s with four people in them screaming around the track... HOPEFULLY screaming around the track. We don't know how well it is going to perform just yet!

jeremy also said:i don't think the torque fairy is going to swoop down

The torque fairy :) LOL

I think the torque fairy would be welcome in any enthusiast's garage. What do we do, put replaced parts under our cars when they are garaged at night?

Originally posted by DonG35Miata
I think the torque fairy would be welcome in any enthusiast's garage. What do we do, put replaced parts under our cars when they are garaged at night?

I think you gotta somehow get the Renesis under your pillow and then maybe she'll come.;)

Sorry, I thought you were saying that we should just leave it to aftermarket mods if we wanted power. I want my next car to not have to be modded. I've been there, done that and I don't want to do it anymore. That's also why I'm still hoping for a Mazdaspeed version because I want a factory modded/enhanced version of a car next.

And I still really love the 3rd gen RX, but after first hand experience (especially after hearing all the stories) with one blowing seals I am really wary of them. My friend's was basically stock too, except for a bigger intercooler from M2 and an intake. The intercooler should have helped, but maybe the intake allowed it to run leaner. We were actually reallly surprised that the engine went, but I guess road racing is really, really hard on the cars. He probably should have ordered a bigger radiator too. I would love it if they kept the 3rd gen body style for the next RX7 and the engine had the NA rotary reliability. I would be first in line with a deposit.



Originally posted by jeremy


i never said it had enough power for me. i had a wrx and still wished it had a bit more grunt and the turbo would kick in earlier. all i'm saying is that they may fix it for you if the masses start shouting low 0-60 times, and typically that is how they will fix it. i don't think the torque fairy is going to swoop down and grace the wankel with torque sans forced induction. as for the reliability of the 3rd gen, it does eat money but can be very reliable if you are smart in tuning and maintenance. turbo 2nd gens can pop just as easy. 2 rules: no overheating/quick temp changes and no detonation. people mod 3rd gens w/o knowing their stuff or taking a risk and it bites them. i agree with wanting a better 0-60, but they are close enough to production now that you will probably get screwed on gearing to better it. since i take it from your posts that you autox, then you should be more worried about gearing and staying in the powerband. moreover, a wide enough powerband to mainly stay in 2nd.

dong35miata: vast difference there in autoxing and door to door racing. hold the ambulance.;)

Don't be surprised they offer a "crate" motor package to slip into the FD chassis.

I went through 2 motors on my FD, and personally replaced the last one. Intercooler and air filter can raise boost pressures and/or a leaning problem creating a potential issue. Also, there's the restrictive exhaust, and in my case a clogged pre-cat which cause the demise of the first block - hence a warranty replacement. The second was after a few years of lapping, 12.8 1/4 mile times, and too much living at 15psi (this was before the really extension progammable ECUs were out - I used an Apexi AFC). I guess both blow-up could be attributed to heat. I'm confident a NA rotary will survive much longer. Hence, should I get this car, it will definitely stay normally aspirated, and the exhaust will be cleaned up a much as legally possible (read: header and cat-back).

"And sometimes driving pleasure involves power and speed. A sub 6sec 0-60 is all that was expected. Some of us may even want to roadrace/autocross it occasionally too."

I plan on taking mine to the track as well. I currently take my FC RX-7 (nonturbo, for insurance purposes, I'm only 21) but I'm tired of hearing how "what's the point, I'll just buy an Altima?" when we all know that the RX-8 will more than likely stomp all over a car like that on a track despite having "only" ten more horsepower.

And as far as I've seen, the estimates have been putting the car at around the 6 second mark 0-60 all along. It's only been the wishful thinking of us and some automotive journalists that has said otherwise. We all knew this car was going to be slower in a straight line than a 350Z.

"None now and maybe none later seeing as how the car may actually weigh 3000+lbs."

This may be the case, unfortunately just like instrumented tests that will tell just how fast the car is, we're going to have to wait to find out.

It'll vary by equipment level to be sure, likely by more than 150 lbs.

"Some of us aren't inexperienced and would like it to handle as well. And I actually don't doubt that it will. It's the power that's more in question."

As I've said, I drive an RX-7, so I'm familiar with its handling and have no fears about it. However, Mazda wants to reach a larger audience with this car than that of the RX-7 so I'd say it's good to go for a more balanced approach. The current buzz is that oversteer is still easily provoked, but only when you want it. As for the responses being too slow, the wheelbase is only about 2" longer than that of the Z so I'm not worried about that.

"It's not a question of manhood. It's what some of us expected from a car that is marketed as a $30k 'sportscar'. Like someone said in an earlier post, I would also just get a Miata if I wanted a car that was very fun and didn't care about power. You should get the lower performance engine. The lower one should be good enough for you. Car will handle the same. Just as fun for you. If they come out with a Mazdaspeed version or enhance the engine in a year or two or ten years from now, don't get it because you don't need it. That's fine. But some of us will."

I couldn't possibly order the lower powered model - it's only available with the automatic. Regardless, I am not looking forward to tests of the automatic car because I will be very surprised if they aren't filled with criticism.

Believe me, I'm licking my chops over the prospect of the Mazdaspeed model, but once again my gripe is with the people that think it's horrid that it won't be all that much faster in a straight line than an Altima - I'd say the problem isn't that this car is too slow but that in the last 2 years family sedans have gotten so fast.

"Feakhelek's post sums it up perfectly as to why many have asked for more power. For some it may not be an issue, but there is nothing wrong with wanting more, especially since many of us were hoping that this new resurrection of the rotary would top the 3rd gen RX7 in every way (both handling and power)."

It was clear from the day that the first RX-8 concept hit with a 250 hp engine that this wasn't to be. Mazda has said time and time again that this isn't a successor to the RX-7 and was never meant to be as such. Even in raw dollars the RX-8 is cheaper than the FD ever was - I don't think it was possible to get the FD in the US for less than $30,000, and by 1995 it was pushing $40,000. Factor in inflation since then and the RX-8 isn't much more expensive than the naturally aspirated FC RX-7 ($17,000 for a 1988 RX-7 GTU)

I look at 2003 for Mazda being like 1986. Their flagship in 1986 only had 146 hp - there was a higher performance version to come. It will be similar with the RX-8, unless people stay away in droves, in which case we will never see a new RX-7 or a 1.5L Renesis.

Look for a Mazdaspeed 8 or a new RX-7 to carry on the tradition of being faster.

That said, ten years of chassis development is showing through in those movies of the RX-8 being all over the FD in the corners.

"I also wanted to say that that was the knock on the NSX also. It really is marvel of technology and handles like a dream. But for the cost, compared to competition, people said that it is lacking in power. And it is exactly what a couple acquaintances (sp?) who actually do own cars in the price range and above have said and their money has gone elsewhere."

Absolutely, I have the same problem with the NSX - I'd take an FD over an NSX every time. However we're not talking about an $80,000 car getting blown into the weeds by a $35,000 car, we're talking about a $27,000 car that only has one competitor in its price range in overall performance, and that competitor only seats half as many people. The RX-8 will look very good indeed stacked up against cars like the Lexus IS300 and BMW 3-series in both price and performance.

i have never really thought about comparing the z with the rx-8. the reason people do in my opinion is because the last z and rx car were compared. i have however always thought of the 3 series as a good camparison. i think the 8 even has a liitle more leg room in the back than the 2 door 3 series. at least as much. and as far as overall performance i think its preeety darn close and for under 30,000 i'll take it.

The RX-8 will look very good indeed stacked up against cars like the Lexus IS300 and BMW 3-series in both price and performance.


I wanted something like a 5 speed IS300, that's why I am going with the RX-8.

Smoking,

I do agree with you about the "just get an Altima" thing. That's kinda taking it too far. Even if the RX8 is not what I am hoping for in my ultimate 'sports' car, I would still love for it to be my other 'practical' car.
I think it is getting criticsm from those of us who really thought that this next rotary release was going to be better than the last in everyway. But the last rotary was the RX7 and it really isn't the same 'class' of car to be compared to. The RX7 was a true sports car, and the RX8 really seems like a sports coupe. So marketing as a sports car is bound to get criticsim if it isn't up to snuff of the sports car crowd. And in the same respect, it probably would have gotten criticism from the 4 seater crowd if they marketed against the 4 seater cars. It would have been too harsh, or the seats weren't big enough, or suicide doors not as practical, etc. So sometimes when you are a hybrid of sorts and walk on both sides of the fence, it's very hard to meet the expectations of everyone on either side.
I'm still excited to see if the car just drives like a dream and wins me over. This is what happened to a lot of current S2000 owners who thought that it lacked torque.

Originally posted by zoom44
. the reason people do in my opinion is because the last z and rx car were compared.

I admit that I'm guilty of that comparison. But I'm changing my view of what the car really is as I learn more. But was a natural assumption though since newer cars should get better, and Mazda has always said that it was a rotary 'sports car'. Which naturally leads to images of the RX7, and that this new car must be better in every way since the RX7 first came in '93 and this is the newest car with the latest technology - so it must be better! Mazda marketing along with the rotary heritage thrown in there worked so well that some of us expected a whole lot. In fact, probably much more than what the car was intended.

Originally posted by nk_Rx8
My friend's was basically stock too, except for a bigger intercooler from M2 and an intake. The intercooler should have helped, but maybe the intake allowed it to run leaner.

there was his problem. colder air is denser air. so he removed an inlet restriction and dropped temps on the intake charge. reaming on it at the track, it could have boost spiked also. they say 2 mod rule. intake/exhaust, then chip. but sometimes you need to go ahead an chip it. na is far more lenient on detonation but they also have never been sold with this high of compression. so who knows, some people might go cheap and dump too low an octane in and go reaming on it, detonate and pop a seal. i'm sure mazda has its code written to retard ignition etc when it reckognizes a lower octane like most every other company. time will tell as its all speculation now.