Anyone has brought their 8 down to the track yet? I would expect the stock pad can't stand the repeated hard use at the track and will fad easily. What are some of the choices available for our car.
I've been thinking of the Mazdaspeed pads but I'm afraid thats only an upgraded version of the stock pad, so it still not suited for track use. I've tried Porterfield before in my bimmer. That's ok and I would like to try something different in my 8.

On related subject, does anyone tried changing their brake pads on the 8 yet. I wonder how difficult/easy it is and what tools do you need for the job.

TIA,
Pete

I'm in the same boat. 3 hard and fast track days, and I'm sure my squealing is from pad damage or cracking.

I've seen some other sites with various brands.... also wondering the MS pad is that much better for track use.

Install looks simple... just like any other car.

Syntrix,

Is the stock pad fad pretty early from your experience. My experience on the track is all stock pads fad after a few hot laps. The only exception I saw is the Porsche which are track-proven in stock form. The fading can be partially fixed with good brake duct.

As for the installation of the pads, have you tried it yourself already? Could you give me a more detailed description of the steps/procedure and what size of nut wrench do you need etc. I appreciate it.

Btw, I wonder do you need to have a dedicated set of rotors to go with the track pads??

TIA,
Pete

Stock pads... really had 0 fade on the track days that I've done. Most other cars, even my old 320+ hp wrx with aftermarket pads and rotors would get some fade pretty fast.

YMMV though. I havent' pulled the brakes yet, but I've been under there making suspension adjustments all the time. Brakes look very simple... just like any other car.

>Stock pads... really had 0 fade on the track days that I've done

Really! Do the 8 have the brake duct set up under the front spoiler? Btw, which tracks have you taken the 8 to so far?

>Brakes look very simple... just like any other car.
Are the brake caliper held in place by two hex nuts at the back side? Any spring clip thing on the front side that you need to take out before you can ply open the caliper??

Cheers,
Pete

I've noticed that Hawk has some sponsor stickers on the Speedsource RX-8. But they do not have pads on their web site yet.

I've also heard that the Speedsource RX-8 uses a stock brake set up.

Anyone know if this is true or if Hawk is making pads and just haven't released them to the public?

>I've also heard that the Speedsource RX-8 uses a stock brake >set up.
I'll be surprised that they use the stock setup for real racing. If not using the Hawk, they would at least use the Mazdaspeed pads.

They are using different pads as well as fluid and lines. But everything else is sotck.

>They are using different pads ........
So the question is what pads are they using!

I would have though that they would use the Hawk Blue pads, but I was talking to the guys at Hawk today and they will not have pads ready until April. Maybe Speedsource is running some R&D Hawk pads.

Speedsource guys said it was info they couldnt give out yet.

I noticed significant fade at Sebring. My 8 is stock. I think I need cross drilled brakes with Hawks to reduice the fade. The rest of the car did great. Redlined 4th gear on the last straight.

John

Personally, I'd hold off on the cross drilled rotors and just start off with hi-temp brake pads and fluid. If that doesn't work then you should think about trying a big brake kit from someone reputable like StopTech.

I would just do the braided steel lines, good fluid (Motul), and good pads. (Hawk blues for track use they are in development now and will be out in April) This is what my car will be using to run in SCCA T-2 and is pretty much what Speedsource is running in the Grand-Am cars.

I'm wondering if you switch to track pad for the track, do you need a dedicated brake discs for that? In other words, one set of track pad/disc and another set, possibly stock, for everyday use.

TIA,
Pete

During track day at Streets of Willow I was amazed how well our stock pads were doing.

I even received a compliment on how good they were from an instructor.

Well I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents. The stock pads lasted about 3 road race sessions before they were completely cooked and started squeeling like little piggies. Since then I've upgraded to the StopTech 355mm big brake kit. This has greaty improoved stopping. Currently I'm running the Pagent Orange race pad that StopTech recomends and let me tell you, I'd swear that I've cut off about 60 ft (or at least it seems) in braking distance from stock.

When I was still using the stock setup and cooked my pads I tried out a set of the Project U titan kia race pads. They have a carbon/titanium flouride compound that holds up well with out fade, once they're bedded in.

Check them out -Race pads (http://vividracing.securesites.net/catalog/index.php?cPath=17_18_470_1152&osCsid=03114a26b7bc8a7c43b3d0506fd3e967)

As far as the Motul fluid and steel lines those would be significant enough for most people. The lines will ad more of a firm, less spongy feel but the fluid I don't recomend using. Since the clutch and brake master cylinder share the same resevior it's recomended to only use DOT 3 fluid. I ran into this problem when I put the brake kit on and intended to run Motul RBF600. Both StopTech and each dealer that I talked to said the same thing. Only DOT 3.

So my next task is to make a resivor for the clutch fluid so I can run the good stuff in the brake system.

So which one would u recommend for track sessions? Pagid Orange or Project U titan kia and how much are they?

Separately, how difficult it is to replace the pads yourself at the track. What tools do u need and what are the steps?

TIA,
Pete

For the stock calipers I liked the Project U Titain Kia pads. I don't think the Pagids are available yet for the stock calipers. Click the link in my reply befor this one and it'll take you to the pads on our site.

What about the installation procedure? What tools you need and what are the steps after you take off the wheels??

Btw, is Project U Titain Kia pads works only at high/track temperature? I wonder how it compares to the Mazdaspeed pads?

The tools are basic enough that anyone can do the install. I don't remember the exact sizes but if you have a basic tool set then you should have everyting you'll need. The Titain Kia pads work best when they come up to temp but still provide good bite at lower temps. Remember though that you should be swaping pads before you go to the track. It's best to keep a set of track and street pads and swap them accordingly. Race pads are usually more abrasive and will grind the rotors down prematurely if driven daily.

Do u mind telling me what's the basic step to replace the pads in the RX-8? In the bimmer that I used to have, all u need is to take off the spring clip at the front side of the caliper. Then Unscrew two hex bolts on the back side of the caliper, ply the caliper open and that's it.

Do u want to have a separate rotor to go with the track pad so you have a complete set just for track use? I've heard that pads do lay down materials on the rotors, so I'm afraid that it may affect the day-to-day driving if you use the same rotor.

Separately, do u sell any pedals set for the RX-8? I found the stock setup is not as ideal as I would like it to be for fast heel and toe. As I said somewhere in the forum before, I found the E36 BMW has just the perfect setup in any cars that I've driven so far, its just very natural!

Yes, replacing the pads is similar to the BMW as far as spring clips, and the bolts on the back side of the caliper.

As far as the pads and rotors, yes new pads do lay down a layer of compound on the rotor but it won't matter to much to use the same rotor with the different pads. The main thing to make sure you do is bed the pads in properly before you go to the track. You can do this over a period of 3 days. 60 to 10mph stops at 70% pedel force about 10 times in a row, or untill the pads start to feel like they are fading. A good way to calculate the amount of force used when stopping is that about the time you feel the ABS kicking in, you want to feather that threashold and never bring it to a complete stop. This can cause over heating or glazing on the rotor and will wear them out prematurely. Let me know if you need me to explain in greater detail. It's easier for me to tell you over the phone as apposed to typing it all out. Give me a buzz if you need to .

Thanks. As far as the bolts at the back side of the caliper, do you remember you need a hex bit or some other tools to do the job?? And for the spring clip, I've looked at it and I'm not too sure how to unclip them. Do u just use a flat head screw driver for the job. I think I should have some extra spare clips handy just in case.

I've a track session coming up in April. I may get something ready for that.

The bolts on the back side of the caliper are regular hex bolts from what I remember. The spring clip can be removed with a flat head srewdriver, yes. Let me know when your ready for some new pads.

thespring clips that ZZ is refferring to are different on his BMW. the 8 doesn't have that giant clip holding the outboard pad in place. what i think ZZ thinks is that clip is actually the pad bracket on the 8. just flip the caliper up and swap the pads! couldn't be easier!

the spring clips that Vivid is reffering to are the sheet metal shims at the pad-to-bracket contact points. or (if our car is like other mazdas, the thin wirey vibration damping springs between the caliper and the pads) those shims shouldn't need to be removed for the track pads.

Ray

Just an update here as well. In one of my replys to this post I mentioned the Motul RBF600 not being a good idea to run in the 8 since the clutch and brake cylinder share the same reservoir. Well I've since been told different from the folks at StopTech and Motul. They say that it is safe to run the fulid throug the system and shouldn't cause any problems with the clutch.

Hey Huff, I heard some of you vivid guys were out at Willow this weekend for the big Mini/STi shootout. Way to crash the party, I heard the Blue WRX Turned the fastest lap of the day. Did you by chance bring the RX-8 out there?

Acctually, we took the EVO out there for some fun on the track. I wanted to go but couldn't swing the time off to go out there. I haven't talked to the guys yet as they haven't come back yet. I would have loved to take the RX8 out there but I would have needed to drive it out there and back. We ended up loading the EVO on a trailer for the trip out there since we spend the days prior to the race setting up the suspension and preping it. Mabey next time. There is an event coming up in May at PIR that me and the RX8 will be attending and we'll see how she handles on the banks of the NASCAR section of the track.

Originally posted by VividRacing.com
Acctually, we took the EVO out there for some fun on the track. I wanted to go but couldn't swing the time off to go out there. I haven't talked to the guys yet as they haven't come back yet. I would have loved to take the RX8 out there but I would have needed to drive it out there and back. We ended up loading the EVO on a trailer for the trip out there since we spend the days prior to the race setting up the suspension and preping it. Mabey next time. There is an event coming up in May at PIR that me and the RX8 will be attending and we'll see how she handles on the banks of the NASCAR section of the track.

So you didn't have the Blue WRX out there? Must have been a lookalike, whoever it belonged to it was fast and I guess turned a 1:36 which was ahead of most of the field by 4 seconds.

Originally posted by VividRacing.com
Just an update here as well. In one of my replys to this post I mentioned the Motul RBF600 not being a good idea to run in the 8 since the clutch and brake cylinder share the same reservoir. Well I've since been told different from the folks at StopTech and Motul. They say that it is safe to run the fulid throug the system and shouldn't cause any problems with the clutch.


This makes me suspect that the motul fluid is DOT spec 5.1

DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 are all glycol based fluids and are interchangeable, the only differences being boiling points for the most part. The higher the number the higher the boiling point.

DOT 5 on the otherhand is a silicone based fluid and is NOT interchangeable with 3,4 and 5.1! It's like trying to mix oil and water, it just won't work :-)

if you do decide to upgrade your fluid i would suggest doing a complete system flush and make sure you get your bleeding sequence right. the old "furthest from the cylinder" technique has long been outdated. with todays ABS systems, master cylinders, and brake biasing hardware you can trap air, debris and dirty fluid in your system fairly easily using the wrong bleeding sequence.

Ray

The RBF600 is a DOT 4. Your right about the 5.1 not being mixable with other fluids. So what is the correct beeding sequence for ABS? I'm all ears.

it's not just one sequence for any ABS system.

call your local carquest and ask them for a current brake parts spec book. Individual cars have their own needs for bleeding sequence. it's related to how the master cylinder is designed and which system componants it contains.

if you want to do the job right and you work on a wide variety of vehicles then it is in your best interest to look up the bleed sequence for each job. similar makes and models may even have differences in the sequence based on brake package on the car and how it might relate to ABS and traction control. If in doubt, look it up.

also on a very extreme side note i have a pop quiz for everyone!

What is the Minimum Rotor Thickness spec for?

A) To prevent technichians from machining too much material out of a rotor and causing too much heat to build in that rotor and thereby prematurely warping the rotor?

B) To prevent technichians from machining too much material out of a rotor and causing the caliper piston to over-extend itself?

C) A & B
D) none of the above

quiz will continue when propperly answered :-)

Ray

Minimum front rotor thickness 22mm, 22.8 if an on hub lathe is used.

Usually the minimum is recommended NOT for caliper piston runout, but for heat that can warp the rotor. This is with panic braking or track use, very easy to warp a rotor, especially if you hold the brakes after the rotor gets hot (1800 deg F +). Good idea after panic braking to NOT use any brake force as the brake system cools off. You may wish to discuss warping and rotor runout tolerances (> .05 mm, remount and if still, lathe the bizzo).

anyone else care to comment?

Ray

Hmmmm.... Both caliper hyper extension and heat warping are good guesses and make thier own respective arguments. I'm going to go with the latter.

My vote is D. A is wrong because (well nevermind an explanation, I'm leaving now, and don't feel like explaining it).

But D, final answer.

the final answer is...

B

the "machine-to" spec or sometimes the "discard at" spec exist to prevent techs from turning a rotor beyond the point where you can actually risk a piston blowout when the pads are worn out.

this spec is not related to how much heat a rotor can absorb or disipate - i once thought it was. turns out engineers are smart :-) and they are apparently smart enough to figure out that they can design a disc brake system with enough surface area to prevent heat soaking for normal driving conditions and even frequent panic braking menuevers.

however, Factory engineers aren't paid to be racecar engineers for mass production vehicles so often times people who do race their street cars do heat soak brake parts and warping does occur when brakes get hot.

but remember, engineers are smart :-) they thought of this too and have designed modern braking componants to compensate to a certain degree for warped rotors. most of todays OEM calipers on the road are floating caliper designs that allow for the movement of the rotor when it is warped (also known as lateral runout).

this means that a warped rotor is NOT the direct cause of a pulsing brake pedal. When a rotor gets warped it moves the caliper back and forth on its slides. this back and forth movement of the caliper starts with the rotor when it acts on the pads. for every push that the rotor causes on the pads it takes a small amount of material out of the rotor's high spot. by reducing the amount of material at the high spot on one side of a rotor a thin spot is being created. if there is a thin spot there must be a thick spot.

this variation in thickness is where your pulsing pedal comes from. instead of the pads moving back and forth in the same direction as one another they are forced apart and the high spot and come together at the low spot causing the piston to move in and out in its cylinder and then causing the fluid to move in and out of the caliper and then causing the fluid to move back and forth in the lines all the wy up to the master cylinder where it translates that movement through the brake pedal and into your foot. :-)

inhale.... whew....

Ray

fixed caliper designs like those from brembo, porsche, stoptech, the TII... they all work similarly. instead of the whole caliper sliding the fluid inside the caliper is just moved from one bank to the other until the high and low spots develop at which point the same thing happens to those brake parts that happen to the floating calipers.

Ray

So, Ray, tell them what they've won! Oh....wait, that was Bob Barker talking. My bad.

our lucky winners have each won a brand new stoptech big brake kit courtesy of Vivid Racing!

hehe

Ray