I was just reading the Knight Sports site and int he "what's new" area they talk about the testing of their soon to be released ECM mod.. 4 Beat. It offers speed limit cut (180 km/h in JDM) and rev limit cut for 48,000 JPY. For 98,000 JPY you get F/A remap and ignition advance in addition. Not on sale yet, but I've emailed them to ask when is it going on sale. They have a graph on the site of the power improvements... http://www.knightsports.co.jp/whatsnew-index.html

are any of these ECU's gonna be for A/T

Knight Sports site says that they have an AT unit under development... if I remember correctly.

Wow! Check out that dyno chart.......
If that's ttheir best effort, I would keep my 98k Yen!
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doc

assuming that's whp (jdm 8's have 250 right? ~220 whp would make sense) 11-12hp is not that bad for just a retune. theres no room for improvement due to the cats like we have.

id still go with CZ's, or en emanage if you have cojones

Something is amiss with that dyno chart. Where are the little dips at certain RPMs that every chart I've seen seems to have? It looks like it was hand-drawn!

jds

The chart looks cartoony, because that's how Japanese graphic designs tends to be. Look at the Fuji TV website in Japanese or any other major company website....or even brouchures

I asked Knight about the hp figures and they said that they were taken on a chassis dyno and represent rwhp NOT flywheel.

As far as the AT ECU unit goes... Kinght Sports has developed one and is in the middle of testing it. One power figures have been taken it will be ready for sale.

If that graph represents stock vs ecu mod, does it mean that stock japanese RX-8's put 215-220 whp?? And the ecu mod put it in the 235 whp range but most important hp is increased across all the rev range? Will it work with US RX-8's?

Japanese RX-8 are rated at 250ps (247hp) at the flywheel. So yes, rwhp is about that much.

The info on the Knight Sports site says that they only got modest gains above JDM stock for the ECU alone 6-7hp over 3,000 rpm. Together with a cat-back they produce better figures... 11-12hp over stock.

As CZ or someone said in one of his threads (and on the KS site), the optimal tune is 13-14 for A/F, and Knight Sports tuned their kit to 13-13.5 as they got the best reliable power at that figure. I am not sure how to interpret the timing changes as they refer to the two plugs as L and T. If someone can clear that up for me, I can provide that translation as well.

The fan temp settings was bumped from 88C to 90C as well.

Anyway, I don't know if this is a piggyback or an ECU replacement yet. I do know that except for the speed limit cut, rev limit cut, and fan temp change it otherwise will provide similar performance to CZ's ECU piggyback. So you may just want to go with his Stage 1. I will check with KS as to whether or not this is a piggyback or a replacement.

It shouldn't matter because it is supposed to be a chart based on real-world data, not a graphic design! Compare it to other dyno charts for the 8...it just looks like a hand-drawn representation of one. Which would of course be completely bogus. I'm not saying that's what it is...just that that is what it looks like to me. Everyone (well, some people) were all over Rotary Extreme and their dyno chart looked a lot more like a real chart than this thing. Of course, if one were to hand-draw something and claim it was a real dyno figure, one would think they would have drawn in a few more ponies! :-D

jds

Originally posted by Japan8
The chart looks cartoony, because that's how Japanese graphic designs tends to be. Look at the Fuji TV website in Japanese or any other major company website....or even brouchures

I asked Knight about the hp figures and they said that they were taken on a chassis dyno and represent rwhp NOT flywheel.

As far as the AT ECU unit goes... Kinght Sports has developed one and is in the middle of testing it. One power figures have been taken it will be ready for sale.

Originally posted by Japan8
I am not sure how to interpret the timing changes as they refer to the two plugs as L and T. If someone can clear that up for me, I can provide that translation as well.

On the rotary engines, the two spark plugs per rotor are referred to as Leading and Trailing.

Regards,
Gordon

I'll give you that... it does look much smoother than those charts posted by CZ, RE, etc.

Taking a wild guess... they exported the data and "smoothed out" the data to make a prettier graph. Not as vaild as those posted here, but easier to read for the less technically inclined.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
On the rotary engines, the two spark plugs per rotor are referred to as Leading and Trailing.

Regards,
Gordon

Thank you... I knew it was something obvious, but me in my morning haze couldn't figure it out...

Well that and while I've admired the rotary engine for years, this is my first time really learning about it. Until now I've been mainly a Ford 302 man...

That Dyno looks like somebody did it in Excel!!!!

More than 2 years since they initially crack their code, I have the opportunity to meet them and do the upgrade.

And it works for Aussie spec RX-8! :naughty:

What they have promised is true. I have gain 5kW at the most important 5000rpm range and man... it is the first mod (after all these stupid money I have spent) that I can feel the major difference in power (I had the unichip remember).

http://byfiles.storage.msn.com/y1pNWJFqcBB6ShQF8oLoVyGDjp3sAbO6gKv4brrRQHv8PBghWv zUT3oK0dlB4CorALdBYg926afw3s

It is not a magic gain, but it is at least do what they promised. And guess what, the dyno records the lowest rear wheel kW I have had and I have not had any engine mod for a long time (just replacing the filter with the same brand new filter from MazdaSpeed Japan, replacing the same spark plug, change with the same oil, etc.)

The mid range is magic.

Also I can feel there is a 2nd gain of power after 9000rpm, although it is not shown in the graph.

More driving impression soon.

I have more pictures and how it was done in my blog
http://myrx8.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!39240444194ED2E2!390.entry

More pictures here
http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/taka_rx8/KnightSports%20dyno%20day/

Now the best engine mod IMHO, after speaking with the KS tuner.... (in order)

ECU flash (like 4Beat, RB reflash in the US)
Lighten flywheel
Final drive
Muffler
RAM intake

Regards

looks great!

Knightsports has put out some quality stuff so far.

If i wasnt going turbo eventually i would opt for their header.

looks great!

Knightsports has put out some quality stuff so far.

If i wasnt going turbo eventually i would opt for their header.
from your signature u have the feed final drive? you gonna be running the 4.777 with the turbo? just curious

Glad you like the new mod!

Does 124.7 kw = 167whp?

from your signature u have the feed final drive? you gonna be running the 4.777 with the turbo? just curious

Yeah, 4.77 isnt that much of an increase. Now going to 5.12 would be something else. I figure that I can trade 1st gear for an awesome third, fourth, fifth and sixth gear.

Glad you like the new mod!

Does 124.7 kw = 167whp?

Yeah that dyno is weird. I got 126kW before the mod before. Stock is only 119kW. I guess what the difference is that counts...

But the problem is when you count not ALL of us is able to get that result :tear: I will let them to tell their own story.

Taka - I'm interested in the speed limmiter delete . How is this mod done - do they need my ECU to do it ?

Yeah they do still. These may help:

Firstly the boss on the right discuss what to do tonight after work
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/taka_rx8/KnightSports%20dyno%20day/778144a7.jpg

Then the tuner makes all the changes, firstly take the ECU out.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/taka_rx8/KnightSports%20dyno%20day/c2fd913b.jpg

Solder on the circuit so they can upload and download freely.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/taka_rx8/KnightSports%20dyno%20day/072dbfac.jpg

Write the parameter from their research and upload
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/taka_rx8/KnightSports%20dyno%20day/d20f3c16.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/taka_rx8/KnightSports%20dyno%20day/58d90d92.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/taka_rx8/KnightSports%20dyno%20day/c32f647f.jpg

Put it back and redyno

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/taka_rx8/KnightSports%20dyno%20day/7e40e4e7.jpg

Sacre - bleu

Cool .. is it possible that it can work also for an European spec RX-8 ? The rev limiter isn't interesting for me, my 8 is also free of speed limit ... but the gain over the full range .. thats interesting to me.

edfred,

Aussie spec RX-8 = euro spec... that is a start.

As we find out from Knight Sports... there are at least 2 types of ECU in Aussie/Euro Spec RX-8. They have not seen the other type so they have no idea how to crack the code of that one yet! I think.

Good luck... (hint you take a pic what is written on top of your ECU and let them have a look).

http://byfiles.storage.msn.com/y1pNWJFqcBB6ShQF8oLoVyGDjp3sAbO6gKv4brrRQHv8PBghWv zUT3oK0dlB4CorALdBYg926afw3s[/IMG]



Dear takahashi,

There could be a problem with the data on the charts. 597,9 Nm @ 5798 rpm equals to 363 kW (about 490 hp) @ 5798 rpm wich is not possible. Torque figures shoud be in the 200´s Nm all around.

Would you please ask KS for clarification?

Regards

jird20

That torque figure is tractive force. It has to do with the diameter of the rollers. From memory with these Dynos (Dynamic Test Systems) you need to divide by about 3 which would put it about right.

As taka mentioned, euro and aus spec cars share the same ECU and there are 2 known types here. Mine turned out to be the one they hadnt seen so I missed out :(. I am going to be sending mine to Japan for then to look at.

are any of these ECU's gonna be for A/T

YES........................

My 03-model is a 4AT version. Knightsports RE-flashed it but it was a little erratic on the AFR so they need more work on it at this stage.

Would love to see a 5kw gain like Taka scored from them..

Knightsports guys DO know their stuff

REgards

That torque figure is tractive force. It has to do with the diameter of the rollers. From memory with these Dynos (Dynamic Test Systems) you need to divide by about 3 which would put it about right.

The absolute figure can be magnified by the differential too. That is why it is higher than the actual figure at the engine in the first place. Different dyno will have diff figure because of their set ups as per auzoom said.

It is much like Power is less than actual on the dyno (much less in my experience), and torque is much more.

It is no way a 124kW at the engine car and it is more powerful than some of the lighter but same power 124kW atw car I have driven.

It will be good to see a US version and the comparison against Racing Beat