I just test drove the RX8 at a dealer which is my second time driving one. I originally drove my step fathers RX8 when he first got it but never really pushed the power of it sicne it was brand new . . .

Anyway, I currently drive a 330i Manual which is an awesome car but here is my viewpoint on the RX8

First of all, I love the looks of it, there is something about the design that just makes this car look so damn good and has that sports car appeal.

The Interior is beautiful, the quality seems very good, everything felt tight, the seats are VERY comfortable, the steering wheel fits perfectly in your hands and the Manual snicks away shifts beautifully.

The RX8 handles very flat and neutral and definitely feels lower to the ground with less body sway then my bimmer. The steering is nicely weighted (though it could be a drop heavier), provides excellent feedback and I love the noises you hear when driving. It's so nice to get into a car that isn't muted with a ton of sound deafening. Taking off from a stop is good, the power always feels like it's there, the wheels feel very connected to the road and I really love the turn in response.

So far so good . . . but here is the one thing I have to say really turns me off . . .
The engine when revved out feels F L A T !!! It is very weird because I was expecting at the higher rpm's (after 4000 or 5000rpm) for the car to zoom to redline but it kept the same exact travel throughout the rpm rev range as the first 4000 to 5000. And to top it off, it really doesn't feel quick while doing it. It's almost like the car is slowly going through the rpm's without much sensation.

My 330's engine flings up to redline and has a real pull to it.

The RX8 I drove had 1400 miles so maybe it loosens up a bit but I really don't know or maybe it's because I am used to the bimmer's engine ?!

If it wasn't for this, I would most likely be trading in my car for one.

Originally posted by Carguy
The engine when revved out feels F L A T !!! It is very weird because I was expecting at the higher rpm's (after 4000 or 5000rpm) for the car to zoom to redline but it kept the same exact travel throughout the rpm rev range as the first 4000 to 5000. And to top it off, it really doesn't feel quick while doing it. It's almost like the car is slowly going through the rpm's without much sensation.

My 330's engine flings up to redline and has a real pull to it.

The RX8 I drove had 1400 miles so maybe it loosens up a bit but I really don't know or maybe it's because I am used to the bimmer's engine ?!


Guys ... 71 views and no comments ?!

Do the current owners of this car agree with this or am I off basis here because I am used to a very flexible engine or does this car break in after certain amount of time ?

Can you fill me in on your opinion ?

TIA

Originally posted by Carguy
Guys ... 71 views and no comments ?!

I think it's because this has become old hat around here. Another owner of another car coming here to tell us all how our 8s don't have enough oomph :p

I love my 8 - but if you want to keep your beemer- that's ok with me. I'm more into handling than torque.

I drove a 350Z from the dealer and thought it had 0 top end and died after 4100 RPM..actually it felt like butterfly after 4100 RPM (one of them pretty yellow and black ones). Anyway....I'm used to my 94 Rx-7, so of course the 350Z is a dog to me. well ok, its looks like a pig but drives like a dog. Anyway, the point is you have a BMW, its a different kind of car. It sounds like the rx8 is not for you.

The difference you feel in the rev'ing is very characteristic of rotary engines. That's what I felt the first time I drove it as well. But for myself I enjoy the sensation. When you push the car to around 7k rpm it feels almost the same as 4k rpm. Especially the engine noise. Its very smooth so you won't feel the engine vibration or much engine noise. Keep in mind the redline is 9k, so relatively speaking you can push this engine to higher rpm's than a piston engine. As for torque, if you get to test drive it again try letting it stay in gears up to 7k or 8k before you shift, see if you get a better pull. Also keep in mind this car isn't a "torque" heavy car, it is consistent through its acceleration. Hope this helps a bit. Happy New Year.

Before this becomes a thread of bimmer vs. rx8, please let it be clear that I am a car enthusiast, not just a BMW enthusiast . . .
There are way too many excellent cars being produced not to keep an open mind.

I did not come here to troll since I can't stand trolls . . . I've had 2 RX7's & a Milennia 'S' and I love Mazda's as well as many other cars.

Well a few things. Say what you will about how easy revving your 330 is but most reviews and owners rave about the Renesis's eagerness to rev. I tend to agree. Regardless, the 8 will beat out your 330 by close to a second once broken in. The car is said by many, including my tech at the Mazda dealer, to release full power between 2600-3000 km ( 1600-1800 mi). I am right in this range and have noticed a difference in the upper rpm's. Maybe that would make the difference for you. Bottom line is that I simply loved everything about this car from the first drive with 8 km on it and am still lovin' it. My 2 cents.

zerobanger -thanks for the feedback . . .I can't really say the RX8 isn't for me since I loved *almost* everything about it . . . I remember test driving the bimmer the first few times and not liking it since I was so used to Japanese cars, the German car felt 'different'.

I have learned from the past to never judge a car fully from a couple of test drives.



skagen - thanks for the feedback as well . .. it really helps hearing what others who own the car have to say ... happy New Year to you as well !!

Originally posted by iamcanadian
Well a few things. Say what you will about how easy revving your 330 is but most reviews and owners rave about the Renesis's eagerness to rev. I tend to agree. Regardless, the 8 will beat out your 330 by close to a second once broken in. The car is said by many, including my tech at the Mazda dealer, to release full power between 2600-3000 km ( 1600-1800 mi). I am right in this range and have noticed a difference in the upper rpm's. Maybe that would make the difference for you. Bottom line is that I simply loved everything about this car from the first drive with 8 km on it and am still lovin' it. My 2 cents.

thanks for the feedback . . . btw the 0-60 for a 5 speed 330i is 6.1 seconds which is about the same as the RX8 - they are BOTH very quick cars . . .

Carguy: first of all you have one hell of a car, I love the 330 and M series BMWs, they are sedans for the serious driving enthusiast! I agree the RX8 ( let me emphasise), feels flat at that RPM, but it is decieving because it really is going good. there is a bit of a difference when the car has some miles on it, I believe it runs rich during break-in and leans out thereafter. I am having a lot of fun with my 8 and that factor was enough for me to buy it. I test drove a lot of cars and sport sedans before I purchased and came to the conclusion that the 8 is a sports car and offers the performance that the sedans didn't quite have. If you want more mid and high end power read canzoomers stage mods in the vendors section, 25 to 55 WHP for $500-$750 with and exhaust and free flow cat additionaly. I believe Canzoomer ran a 13.7 1/4 mile with his stage 1 using a G-tech computer for measurement, this will take care of that flat feeling you didn't like:D

Mine has a definite kick when the extra ports open up - almost like the 3800RPM kick in the 2nd gen RX-7 Turbo, except I get two kicks! It really feels to me like I could pull past 10K RPM if the car would let me. You need to wind it up to redline a few times and then see how you feel about it. This car is definitely more fun to drive than my 2nd gen Turbo.

It's hard to imagine the 8 being more fun than your 2nd gen, are you talking about handling? anyway I dont have a 2nd gen so I dont know, I do know they are extreme performing cars from other forums and friends that have them, I guess that speaks well of our cars!

Some of you guys go into defensive at the drop of a hat. I don't think Carguy is saying it has no power. It sounded like he was saying that after ~5500rpm he expected to feel like it would pull really hard up to redline, but it didn't feel like it. Now, i have read some other posters a long time ago say something similar and my friend has said this about his RX8 too. But the actual issue seems more like it is because the engine is tuned to go rich on the upper end which makes it seem like it loses a little 'ooomph' on the top. And even on the reviews of Canzoomer's mod, it was mentioned that there is now a stong 'ooomph' that pulls all the way to the redline now. And some of the people were expecting to feel what should have been there before Mazda tuned it out. So those of you who think it pulls hard now, wait until you feel what it should pull like when the ECU is returned to 'normal' tune.

This totally reminds me of how in the beginning on the Evo forum, some said that the topend was a letdown on the Evo. And some people would flame them and call 'Troll!' But it turned out that the Evo was tuned to drop from full 19psi boost to 16spi at the top. So what some people felt was real. But later of course people got their ECU reflashed and carried full boost all the way up to redline, and then it really pulled hard up to redline.

Carguy . . . I got 6.8 seconds for a manual from BMW Canada's website. I was looking very seriously at your ride and love it btw! I find the 8 so hard to compare to anything else from looks to engine. I don't think that anyone here is calling Carguy a troll whatsoever, rather I think that there are a majority of RX8 drivers that feel that the car does build through redline with a lot of sensation. Then again, sensation is so subjective! I thought skagen's post was excellent. Cheers.

I was in the market for a baby bimmer before I bought the 8. I also own a 540i. What I liked about the 8 is the value for the money. There is no other car that can offer you what Mazda does in this price range. I agree that power dips after 5000rpm, however there is a simple $500 solution. Pick up Canzoomer's mod and you will be sold instantly! I had an opportunity to experience the mod and a power surge kicks in at about 4500rpm causing your head to snap back (almost turbo like!). Contact Canzoomer and consider the 8!

I find that the tach moves up to 9k so quick, I have to pay fairly close attention, and can't just go by the sounds of the engine.

It is a smooth ride up to 9k, and you may not feel pulled back in your seat, but hitting 68 mph in second and 90 in third, and you will find most cars behind you before you know it.

Elapsed time to xxx will not be as fast as some cars, and there are plenty of folks here who will cram that info down your throat, but it is quick enough and fun to drive.

Many of us are eagerly anticipating the Stage 1 and the extra pull it is expected to give.

The prime consideration when buying my 8 was value-for-money. Where I'm from, the import duty on the RX-8 is 95%. On the 330i, it would be 185%, which would make the BM more than twice the price of the 8. So it was an easy decision.

Having previously owned a BM, I agree with Carguy that I was expecting more oomph in the higher revs from what I had read in the forums, and that I sometimes miss the torque of the BM. The other day I was doing 180 kmh and my passenger thought that I was only doing 140 kmh. I guess it's because the 8 accelerates so gradually without strain and is so stable that one does not sense the true speed. All things said, the 8 is definitely the more sporty and fun to drive car, albeit a very smooth one.

BTW khoney, at what rev does the second port open? I personally have not noticed a kick in the higher revs. The engine just accelerates as smoothly as in the lower revs. I have a Japan specs car with full 250HP (apparently).

Well, I just test drove an 8 for the first time yesterday. Loved it!

I had a similar experience to Carguy and figured this was a characteristic of rotary engines (not that familiar with them but had heard something about really smooth torque lines). So skagen, I think.

nk_Rx8's explanation about tuning is also interesting.

The other possibility was that the salesman in the passenger seat had access to some kind of safety valve. Who knows, maybe he didn't have the same appreciation for 95 mph?

I would get so many speeding tickets in an 8, that I'm not sure I would bother with a retuning.

It may not be the fastest car in the world, but it may be the best handling stock car that I have ever driven. And you have to love the price!

Maybe I'm missing something, but I have a definite "bump" in power, first at around 4.5K RPMs and again around 7K RPMs.

As others have said, the power delivery is so smooth and so strong througout the rev range, you may not notice.

I had two BMWs previous to the RX8....one 325i and one 330i. Both were fun cars. Both are quite different in drive feel than my current RX8. In short, there's nothing quite like driving an RX8.

Wow that stage 1 sounds impressive, I just got finished reading on it and for under $800 it sounds like a great mod !!!

I spoke to my stepfather who has an RX8 and he said I can borrow it for a few days to see what it's like to live with it.

I'm going to pick it up Sunday night ... I'll keep you guys posted if you want to hear about it.

The only downside is he only has around 700 miles so the engine hasn't loosened up at all though he told me not to hold back while using it :cool:

The RX8 is not like any other car I've ever owned or driven. It's deceptively quick; the smooth revving rotary doesn't give you the same type of feedback as a piston engine does. It IS going fast though but it's so smooth it almost feels "flat" at first. You don't get the noise and vibration that a piston engine gives you when you climb the revs.

If you're used to driving by sound and feel, it doesn't give you the "standard" feedback. If that's mostly what you want then you might be disappointed. However if you live with it a few weeks you get readjusted and start to truly appreciate what a refined car this is. It doesn't achieve performance through brute strength but through refined agility.

This is a true "driver's" sports car; one where you're not primarily interesting in impressing others, but are totally focused on the experience of driving for yourself. That's not to say that others don't notice you...hehehe.

I have just over 8,600 miles on mine and I absolutely love this car. It has such class, and is so confidence-inspiring that I almost feel weird to be in anything else now; like driving without a seat belt on. Other cars now feel mushy, uncoordinated, clunky... the RX8 has completely changed my views of what performance is/should be. All that being said, I do have Canzoomer's stage 1 mod on order however and I look forward to a bit of the 'old fashioned' style of feedback being added to my refinement. ;D

Looking forward to having my cake and eating it too. :)

I must agree with khoney and graphicguy. When floored, I get noticable power increases at 4500 and again at 7000 RPM. I believe this matches when extra ports open up. Once 7000 RPM comes, you best be looking to shift, otherwise you'll swing right through the buzzer and into the red. It's most frustrating when the fuel cuts out on you up there (Nice saftey though). At least in the lowest gears (where you might be going the legal limits), the quickness requires split second timing.

I think the difference in feeling has to do more with the engine design. Standard 4 stroke piston engines, like the BMW's, feel like they have incredible power when "on cam". The more radical the cam, the stronger the "punch" at the penality of a narrower RPM band width to deliver it. For production use, the idea is to tune the cam to give you as much torque as possible through the greatest RPM band width. Ironically, this goal of flattening the torque curve is something the Rotary need not worry about. Yet, when you get rid of the "on cam" feeling, the seat of the pants feeling is the car is flat, or there is no punch.

Smoothness is quickness. Obviously, spinning tires, chirping through the gears, 4-wheel drifts, or any other tire scrubbing excercise scrubs valuable time off any test... but "feels" more powerful. The same smoothness rules apply to engines.

Originally posted by TiRX8
I was in the market for a baby bimmer before I bought the 8. I also own a 540i. What I liked about the 8 is the value for the money. There is no other car that can offer you what Mazda does in this price range. I agree that power dips after 5000rpm, however there is a simple $500 solution.

Are you sure power dips after 5000 rpm ?

I don't recall power dipping, I just recall the same steady power throughout the rev range . . . are you sure that all RX8's do this or is it possible something is wrong with your car ?

Originally posted by Carguy
My 330's engine flings up to redline and has a real pull to it.

The RX8 I drove had 1400 miles so maybe it loosens up a bit but I really don't know or maybe it's because I am used to the bimmer's engine ?!

If your Bimmer has variable valve timing you may be expecting a kick that doesn't exist. These expectations could be tainting your impressions.

Also, 1400 mi is a low mileage engine. My experience with mine at 7k miles, is that it keeps getting better (except for mpgs). Apparently the ecu is waiting for engine parts to get snapped in, and then it releases more power.

However in my driving, I don't really notice any extra kick above 7k rpm, but the acceleration doesn't drop off either. It just keeps on pulling until (and past) the beep.

Either way (BMW or RX) you're driving a fine creation. Happy Motoring!

Originally posted by Carguy
Are you sure power dips after 5000 rpm ?

I don't recall power dipping, I just recall the same steady power throughout the rev range . . . are you sure that all RX8's do this or is it possible something is wrong with your car ?



This strikes me as odd, too- because mine definitely pulls more after 5k rpms. Between 4 and 5 is when it really starts accelerating. I would guess something's weird with the car.

I own two cars... a fast car and a fun car. When I drive the RX-8 it's a fun car to drive. I also own a Lexus LS430. Although it looks far less "sporty" than the RX-8 it can outpace it at any speed. But that's fine, because the Lexus is not nearly as fun to drive as the Mazda.

Originally posted by DrComputer
I own two cars... a fast car and a fun car. When I drive the RX-8 it's a fun car to drive. I also own a Lexus LS430. Although it looks far less "sporty" than the RX-8 it can outpace it at any speed. But that's fine, because the Lexus is not nearly as fun to drive as the Mazda.

Road and Track:
0-60 / 1/4 mile / top speed / slalom
LS430 6.4 14.8 131 60.6
RX-8 5.9 14.5 148 65.4

At what speed can the LS 430 "outpace" the 8? Or did I misunderstand you?

There is NO Lexus currently made that outpaces the 8, although the SC 430 has a higher top speed (156).

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
Road and Track:
0-60 / 1/4 mile / top speed / slalom
LS430 6.4 14.8 131 60.6
RX-8 5.9 14.5 148 65.4

At what speed can the LS 430 "outpace" the 8? Or did I misunderstand you?

There is NO Lexus currently made that outpaces the 8, although the SC 430 has a higher top speed (156).

I think he was referring to the crash test where both cars hit each other head on and see which one sustains less damage :p

Just a word on handling comparison.

On my commute from work there is this long left-handed bend up a slight gradient which I just love zooming through. The road surface is not perfect and has quite a few small bumbs. I normally take that bend at about 140 km/h.

In both my previous Beemer (E36 model) and my current RX8, the amount of body-roll felt about the same (just a hint less on the 8), although the 8 has the lower-profile tires and a more sporty suspension. However I find that when going over the small road imperfections, the Beemer felt more secure steering-wise, where the 8's steering wheel would wobble in my hands, making the car move around a bit. I find that the 8 requires more concentration when driving at speed on less-than-perfect roads.

However I can take the same bend at a higher speed in the 8. At 140 km/h the Beemer back-wheels start sliding away, while I've pushed the 8 round the bend at 150 km/h, with room to spare. In any case both cars have wonderful chassis which provide excellent feedback to the driver.

Mine has a definite kick when the extra ports open up - almost like the 3800RPM kick in the 2nd gen RX-7 Turbo, except I get two kicks! It really feels to me like I could pull past 10K RPM if the car would let me. You need to wind it up to redline a few times and then see how you feel about it. This car is definitely more fun to drive than my 2nd gen Turbo.

The car definitely feels to start pulling more eagerly above 4000 rpm' s, but I certainly have never felt any kick, like that of a turbo. Could it be that there is something wrong with my engine, and that the extra ports are not opening?

Hey Speed-ER doc,

That picture on yor avatar is from the mountains of North Carolina just outside of Asheville. Do you go there often?

Ok, I've had some more time behind the wheel since I borrowed the RX8 and I can tell you that the car pulls really well especially up top in the upper rpm's and hte engine makes some nice sounds while doing it.
There is nothing about driving this car that would discourage me from getting one, I love everything about it.

Overall it is a very connected car to the road, I can understand what someone on the board said about the shifter being a hard throw, coming out of my 330i where the shifter is very light in it's action, the RX8 moves with a little more friction in comparison. If i didn't drive a stick on a regular basis I would not have noticed it since it is a very smooth shift with a couple of snicks in it to make it feel good !!

Gas mileage was 13.2 mpg ...

With all that said, I am not going to get one. While it is a great car, it is really on the small side and since I have my kids A LOT of times in my car, I really need a bigger car plus I really am in love with the Bimmer just like you guys are in love with the 8, once you have that love, it's hard to part with it.

nice post carguy, thanks for the compliments of our 8's. trust me, im pretty sure i can safely say we would love a bimmer as well. both cars are definitely to be fallen in love with.

Thanks Skagen, I have to admit I am not 100% positive I am not getting one since that damn 8 is sooo connected to the road and I keep thinking about it.

I have been trying to scheme a plan to have both the bimmer and the RX8 . . . Damn I better get this car out of my garage quick ;)

Meanwhile my stepfather told me I could keep it for the week . . . arghh ... the torture :p

If its a prob, can i borrow your bimmer? :p

Originally posted by Carguy
Ok, I've had some more time behind the wheel since I borrowed the RX8 and I can tell you that the car pulls really well especially up top in the upper rpm's and hte engine makes some nice sounds while doing it.
There is nothing about driving this car that would discourage me from getting one, I love everything about it.

Overall it is a very connected car to the road, I can understand what someone on the board said about the shifter being a hard throw, coming out of my 330i where the shifter is very light in it's action, the RX8 moves with a little more friction in comparison. If i didn't drive a stick on a regular basis I would not have noticed it since it is a very smooth shift with a couple of snicks in it to make it feel good !!

Gas mileage was 13.2 mpg ...

With all that said, I am not going to get one. While it is a great car, it is really on the small side and since I have my kids A LOT of times in my car, I really need a bigger car plus I really am in love with the Bimmer just like you guys are in love with the 8, once you have that love, it's hard to part with it.


Nice post and good luck with your ultimate decision. I must confess that I originally started out looking for a low mile M coupe (the Z3 type) but was unable to locate a satisfactory example over a fews weeks time, I then refocussed my search down to to a 2-3 year old C5, the G35 coupe, the 350Z or the RX8. After much research and hands-on testing, I couldn't be happier...and the damn thing is, I just can't put my finger on one reason why, the overall package is hard to beat. Good luck. - Kevin

Al, I mean, Carguy... :)

My wife thought the rear of the 8 was too small, but it was more claustraphobic than anything. Rear leg room isn't great, but it's no worse than say a 4-door Golf or something.

So we were set on a 325i. Then I heard the 8 was S-Plan eligible and I could get it for about $5K less than a 325... sold. The 8 it is.

She wants to drive it one more time, but it's a formality.

But I am lucky in that she has a Volvo V70 as the practical car, and the 8 would not be bad at all, particularly since my boy is only 2. He's got plenty of time to grow, so the backseat won't be too limiting at all.

That said... if I already *had* the 330, I'm not sure I'd switch. The 330 is a great car too... just a little different.

Anyway, thanks for the input on the 8!

Originally posted by racerdave
Al, I mean, Carguy... :)

My wife thought the rear of the 8 was too small, but it was more claustraphobic than anything. Rear leg room isn't great, but it's no worse than say a 4-door Golf or something.

So we were set on a 325i. Then I heard the 8 was S-Plan eligible and I could get it for about $5K less than a 325... sold. The 8 it is.

She wants to drive it one more time, but it's a formality.

But I am lucky in that she has a Volvo V70 as the practical car, and the 8 would not be bad at all, particularly since my boy is only 2. He's got plenty of time to grow, so the backseat won't be too limiting at all.

That said... if I already *had* the 330, I'm not sure I'd switch. The 330 is a great car too... just a little different.

Anyway, thanks for the input on the 8!

Dave,

What is S plan eligible ?

I am surprised because I thought you were set on the 3 series . . . I guess depending on options it could be a 5k spread but the 8's I see are priced $31,200 -33,500 which is very close to the 325 in price . . .

We have the Volvo XC90 as the family hauler but my biggest problem is my wife doesn't drive a manual (I gotta teach her how to already) so I always need to use my car when going out with the kids alone which BTW isn't really a bad thing because I really am not into driving the truck.

Good luck and keep me posted

---------
Alan

I'm a little late chiming in, but I wanted to comment on the difference between a BMW's powerband and the 8's.

Recent BMW sixes (derived from the M50 family) are long stroke, torquey motors. If you look at a dyno for an M50/52/54TU, you'll notice the torque builds up very quickly starting at ~3000 RPM and then dies off after 5000. This is what gives the 3 series a punchey bottom end... there's a dramtic shift in torque much like the VQ in the 350Z/G35. However, anyone whose driven one will tell you the motors take a nose dive at the top end of the rev range (the VQ, in fact, falls on its face after 6k.)

By contrast, the 8 has very even, linear torque curve all the way to the redline. There is no 'bulge' or dramatic build up like there is in the M50 or VQ. Consequently, it doesn't feel very fast, because the engine doesn't give you all the torque at once .. it doles it out a little at a time all the way to red ---exactly like an S2000, another deceptively quick car.

I imagine CanZoomer's mod will fill out the top end even better and really open the car up after 6k.

BTW, CarGuy, I have an E36 M3 and am looking at getting a 8 this year.


///M-Spec

Carguy, good luck with your decision :) On one note, I think you might find the 8 has more room than you might suspect at first drive. I just got back from my christmas road trip. We did several 3-5 hour drives with four adults (two 6'2 males, two 5'9 females), one suitcase and a huge-assed sports bag, not to mention a couple of backpacks. We had a fun time trying to get everything packed in, but when you do a 4 hour drive with 4 adults, luggage for a week on the road, and everyone is comfortable... Works for me anyway :)

Alan,

The S-Plan is special pricing from Mazda/Ford for employees of Ford Parters. My company is a Ford Partner, so we get the S-Plan.

It basically winds up being a shade lower than invoice price.

The S-Plan price on a 6MT with Sports Package is $25.5k. The 325i SP I wanted would've invoiced at about $30.5k.

So even if the 325 has a lot better resale value down the road (very likely) I'll still have a $5k cushion to play with at the outset.

My wife found that $5k savings enough to make her reconsider the RX-8. :)

But like you, no matter if it's an E46 BMW or a RX-8... there's no way to lose. :D

Originally posted by Carguy
Before this becomes a thread of bimmer vs. rx8, please let it be clear that I am a car enthusiast, not just a BMW enthusiast . . .
There are way too many excellent cars being produced not to keep an open mind.

I did not come here to troll since I can't stand trolls . . . I've had 2 RX7's & a Milennia 'S' and I love Mazda's as well as many other cars.

As an enthusiast that's torn between both camps, I've gotta say something here!

Carguy, your 330i has one of the very best engines in the world. Considering the amount of advertised power it makes, its performance embarrasses many bigger and "more powerful" engines (cough cough Nissan cough cough). In fact, your 3 liter's been an award winner every one of its years. It's also characterized by it's very broad, very, very flat torque curve...you have most of your torque thoughout your entire rev range! Hence the massive pull...

While my idea of an ideal engine has a torque curve similar to the 3 liter's, I've really taken a liking to the nature of the rotary. Now in fairness I hated the nature of a VTEC engine I tried years ago, so I'm always skeptical of high-revving engines. When I test drove the RX-8, I was fixated on flying through the gears and watching the needle zing up the tachometer every few seconds. The salesman tried to demonstrate the stereo, but I was just too distracted :D . As long as I kept thrashing the RX-8 like I hated it, it just loved me right back.

Eventually I would love to join the BMW club (almost did too this round), but I think my future affair with the Wankel will be an interesting and exciting jaunt.

Originally posted by Carguy
Thanks Skagen, I have to admit I am not 100% positive I am not getting one since that damn 8 is sooo connected to the road and I keep thinking about it.

I guess your ordeal with choosing wheels was just a preview. :p

I have been trying to scheme a plan to have both the bimmer and the RX8

Son, what's a few Gs, anyway?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrinpimp.gif

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/stickpoke.gif

Carguy and Dave know how I managed...I talked my wife into selling her car and taking over my 325 wagon.

Originally posted by clyde
I guess your ordeal with choosing wheels was just a preview. :p



Son, what's a few Gs, anyway?

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Carguy and Dave know how I managed...I talked my wife into selling her car and taking over my 325 wagon.

Glad to finally see you here . . . I was thinking if I was to sell my Bimmer, just think how much $$ I could get for my wheel collection . . . (I've got 3 sets :D ) plus all the aftermarket stuff I put on my car . . . Sheesh, I could get an RX8 AND make a profit:cool:

Carguy,

I traded my M3 in on my RX-8 I didn't post because I had already talked about a few times on different posts. I struggled with the decision to purchase the '04 RX-8 or the '04 M3. Handling wise the cars are similiar. Both had Nav, DSC/TC, Seated 4, etc. The major difference was hp. Finally it came down to price. I decided that when Mazdaspeed puts out the turbo kit I can have similiar hp to the M3 at a fraction of the price. I also get more glances and thumbs up in this car than I ever did in my M3. I loved my M3 but it was a few years old and it didn't have all the luxuries I was looking for that my RX-8 has and even though they are different kinds of cars you have to give the RX-8 some props for being compared to cars the likes of BMW, Mercedes, Porche, etc. They are all fun cars.

Oh and to answer another question, I did feel quite a difference in the power after about 2,000 miles. I really noticed it just before we started getting snow here. Now I don't get to play with it so much but yes after 6,200 rpms the car opens up and the hp kicks in. The 3rd intake ports open up and you can feel it. It is kinda like a turbo, almost. I miss my Turbonetics stage II upgrade sometimes. Anyway I hope that helps. Yes you can go from a BMW to a Mazda and be happy.

Had a 2000 BMW M Roadster -- outrageous acceleration, exhilarating thrust, really pushed you into the seat. Handling was mediocre at best, as was quality, fit and finish and materials.

330i has great acceleration and handling and improved quality, makes my M seem cro-magnon in comparison.

However, RX-8 blows away my M Roadster in nearly every way. I also chose it over the 330. Why? It's a sprotscar, not a sporty coupe. It has spectacular handling, fantastic design, more interior cu. ft. than the 330, a usable trunk and hot styling. Last, I enjoy the "work" it takes to wring the substantial performance out of the RX-8. The M Roadster was effortless, as is the 330 when it comes to getting the power to the road; for me that translated into a slightly boring experience...

Now, if I were looking for a lux/sport coupe instead of sportscar, I would definately consider the 330; however, I'd likely choose the G35!

Just so you guys know where I am last night I gave back my stepfathers RX8 to him since I was worried about driving around his brand new car but I have to say I am having some serious RX8 withdrawal's . . .

I also test drove the G35 Coupe yesterday and I think the RX8 is the car for me in comparison. The G coupe is fast as hell but the RX8 has the feel I LOVE in a car. the G is too luxurious and doesn't offer the roadfeel the RX8 offers. It's like a sports GT versus a real sports car.

Anyway I am going to drive my 330 for a few days and if I feel I still want the RX8 and if I do I will trade in the 330 for a RX8 with the Grand touring and possibly the Rear spoiler.

Lucky for me my 330 is a 2003 it would be either an even swap or maybe cost me a couple of g's in the end.

I'm thinking Red or black exterior and with black or black/red interior.

I'm a little confused by all this, or something isn't right with some of the cars here. Before my RX8, I drove an Alfa Romeo GTV6. The Alfa 2.5 litre V-6 is probably one of the best reving piston engines ever built. My RX8 revs quicker and effortlessly compared to the Alfa, and my RX8's power is smooth and consistent all the way to redline. "skagen" has it right 'cause peak HP is 8500 RPM. If you drive the RX8 using the same mindset used to drive the BMW, then you left most of the 8's HP and torque unused, which isn't a fair comparison. To get the most out of the RX8 (and keep the ports from clogging up) then drive it like you stole it.

Originally posted by DaveT
I'm a little confused by all this, or something isn't right with some of the cars here. Before my RX8, I drove an Alfa Romeo GTV6. The Alfa 2.5 litre V-6 is probably one of the best reving piston engines ever built. My RX8 revs quicker and effortlessly compared to the Alfa, and my RX8's power is smooth and consistent all the way to redline. "skagen" has it right 'cause peak HP is 8500 RPM. If you drive the RX8 using the same mindset used to drive the BMW, then you left most of the 8's HP and torque unused, which isn't a fair comparison. To get the most out of the RX8 (and keep the ports from clogging up) then drive it like you stole it.


Dave read the whole thread not just the initial post. . . my originally thoughts have changed since I have lived with the RX8 for 3 days . . . I agree you need to rev that sucker and it is damn fun !!!!

In fact when I got back in the bimmer (which felt like a torque rocket) I missed the extra few thousand rpm's !!

Has anyone driven a BMW with the S54 engine? I have a 2001 M coupe (same engine as the new M3), and am contemplating a RX-8 (not to replace the M coupe - that's staying). I was wondering what people felt about the differences in those engines, since the redline is pretty high in the new S54's and power keeps coming on to the end. I know in the end I have to go test drive the 8 and plan to do so, I was just curious if anyone had any experience?

By the way, the last post wasn't by lilda8615 - I came here from a link, posted a reply not knowing if you had to be a member, and it went through and came up with that name. Don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I didn't expect it to happen. I'll have to register so it won't again. Still, at least the post got there.

Thanks Carguy. The reality is that there are a bunch of really neat cars available today. Not like it was a few years back when there were two or three choices for guys like us. I think it's great that the manufacturers themselves may be morphing in to our pattern and looking at the marketplace from our perspective. One reason for my earlier post was that some of the comments from RX8 owners indicated that their engines seemed sluggish from a rev standpoint, not that you had done anything wrong. I really welcome your input. You may have the best of both worlds-your BMW, and an RX8 in the family for when you want a change of pace.

Originally posted by DaveT
Thanks Carguy. The reality is that there are a bunch of really neat cars available today. Not like it was a few years back when there were two or three choices for guys like us. I think it's great that the manufacturers themselves may be morphing in to our pattern and looking at the marketplace from our perspective. One reason for my earlier post was that some of the comments from RX8 owners indicated that their engines seemed sluggish from a rev standpoint, not that you had done anything wrong. I really welcome your input. You may have the best of both worlds-your BMW, and an RX8 in the family for when you want a change of pace.


Hello Dave
You hit the nail on the head, it's almost like todays cars have changed perfectly with my lifestyle.

Also I don't want to mislead anyone, the RX8 I was driving for a few days was my Step fathers car not mine. He was nice enough to lend it to me so I could see if I like living with it on a daily basis.

Not just from a performance stand point but also I needed to see how my kids would fit in the backseat, etc.

As of now, I have the Bimmer back and will hang tight and if I still feel the desire to get the RX8 in a few weeks, I'll trade the Bimmer in.

I will tell you this, when the MY2005's come out at the end of this year I will be trading in my car and the choice will be either the RX8 or the redesigned 3 series (if it comes out)

Originally posted by lilda8615
Has anyone driven a BMW with the S54 engine? I have a 2001 M coupe (same engine as the new M3), and am contemplating a RX-8 (not to replace the M coupe - that's staying). I was wondering what people felt about the differences in those engines, since the redline is pretty high in the new S54's and power keeps coming on to the end.

I have some seat time with the S54 M3. The power delivery is very similar to an 8, you just get a heck of a lot more of it in the S54. The S54 is head and shoulders a better motor.. more flexible, more power everywhere in ther rev range, better throttle response, etc... but for a car 20 grand more than an 8, it should be.


///M-Spec

Originally posted by Carguy
Just so you guys know where I am last night I gave back my stepfathers RX8 to him since I was worried about driving around his brand new car but I have to say I am having some serious RX8 withdrawal's . . .

I also test drove the G35 Coupe yesterday and I think the RX8 is the car for me in comparison. The G coupe is fast as hell but the RX8 has the feel I LOVE in a car. the G is too luxurious and doesn't offer the roadfeel the RX8 offers. It's like a sports GT versus a real sports car.

Anyway I am going to drive my 330 for a few days and if I feel I still want the RX8 and if I do I will trade in the 330 for a RX8 with the Grand touring and possibly the Rear spoiler.

Lucky for me my 330 is a 2003 it would be either an even swap or maybe cost me a couple of g's in the end.

I'm thinking Red or black exterior and with black or black/red interior.

Carguy - some great posts, and very perceptive too (especially comparative thoughts on the G35 - 3 months and 3000 miles later I am still complaining to my wife how much more fun the RX-8 was). If you do get the RX-8 I would suggest the red with black/red interior and a rear spoiler as it is better/faster than other RX-8s ;). I am sure someone here can help you qualify for S-plan pricing...

As far as the S54 engine goes that is what I was test driving in the '03 M3. I wanted an '04 but the dealer didn't have them in yet. It is a faster more powerful car. It also weighs more and is quite a bit more expensive. I love a true sports car feel and will make up for the torque and hp with a turbo when Mazdaspeed puts it out. Then for quite a bit less money my car will be just as quick. The trade offs were worth it in my opinion. I didn't like the 4 door M3 and the two door can be tricky to get in and out of.

Originally posted by 93rdcurrent
As far as the S54 engine goes that is what I was test driving in the '03 M3. I wanted an '04 but the dealer didn't have them in yet. It is a faster more powerful car. It also weighs more and is quite a bit more expensive. I love a true sports car feel and will make up for the torque and hp with a turbo when Mazdaspeed puts it out. Then for quite a bit less money my car will be just as quick. The trade offs were worth it in my opinion. I didn't like the 4 door M3 and the two door can be tricky to get in and out of.
There is no four-door E46 M3.

The M3 is much, much quicker than the RX-8 (0-60 in 4.8s) and is IMHO a completely different level of car.

Then again you can buy two RX-8 Sports for the same price as a reasonably configured M3...

That having been said, in three years a used M3 will still be a BMW where a used RX-8 will likely look a bit dated and passe. The question is whether that matters, and that's something only each individual can answer for themselves...

I stand corrected. There isn't a four door option on the '04 M3 I just looked through my brochure. It still seems like I had seen an E-46 4 door M3 but I believe that it was an '01. I will check with my dealer.

There has never been an E46 M3 with four doors.

There's a ZHP "performance package" option for the four door E46 330i, but that's it.

The older style (E36) M3 was available in a four door version that sold well in the U.S. but absymally in Europe, thus the reason BMW didn't want to introduce one for the E46; it's too expensive for them to redo the M3 as a four door just for the U.S. market...

I guess it's kinda a mute point since I wouldn't buy one that was a 4 door anyway and wasn't looking at one. But after talking with the dealer they also confirmed that there was no 4 door M3 but that they did have a 4 door 330ci on the lot while I was looking at the M3's they had. I got confused.

IMHO...

i guess the pull you get from 330ci (w/221lb torq.) will never be felt in a 8 (159lb torq.) . . .

i was driving a IS300 before i got this 8 . . .

those bigger displacement engines are more focused at Low-end ... whereas our 8 is going for high-rev...

but honestly, i wish i could feel that Pull when it goes from to 7k to 9k rpm

i only drove my 8 for a week or so... so i cant comment on it yet =P

oh by the way,
RX8 i believe is a SPort sedan... not a pure sport car ??
RX7 would be a pure sport car...

Originally posted by 93rdcurrent
I guess it's kinda a mute point since I wouldn't buy one that was a 4 door anyway and wasn't looking at one. But after talking with the dealer they also confirmed that there was no 4 door M3 but that they did have a 4 door 330ci on the lot while I was looking at the M3's they had. I got confused. Moot. Or a moo point if you're Joey ;) Also the c in 330Ci indicates "coupe" (ie two doors), so what you saw was a 330XiA, 330Xi, 330iA or 330i (X=four wheel drive, i=fuel injection, C=coupe (can also be a convertible), A=Automatic).

Sorry for nit-picking but I just started laughing when I read mute :D

BMW = Break my wallet

Originally posted by pelucidor
Carguy - some great posts, and very perceptive too (especially comparative thoughts on the G35 - 3 months and 3000 miles later I am still complaining to my wife how much more fun the RX-8 was). If you do get the RX-8 I would suggest the red with black/red interior and a rear spoiler as it is better/faster than other RX-8s ;). I am sure someone here can help you qualify for S-plan pricing...

Huh? How can someone here "help you qualify for S-plan pricing?" I thought that was only for employees of Mazda and realted parts companies and their immediate family...

5Gen Prelude,

Wow tough crowd sometimes... I spoke with the dealer about it and it was there comment I was posting. Maybe the salesman didn't have it right (I know it's never happened before). And I did mean moot not "mute". By the way which one of us actually owned an M3??? It always seems like the Honda guys are so high strung... could it be that they are always dreaming about these other cars? Just kidding :p .

An update to this thread (as the thread starter :D )

I am joining the RX8 club !!! I put the deposit down tonight and should be picking it up by thursday or friday.

It was a tough choice but that RX8 is DAMN HOT !!!!!

Bye bye BMW ... Hello RX8

great choice, congratulations.

Originally posted by Carguy
An update to this thread (as the thread starter :D )

I am joining the RX8 club !!! I put the deposit down tonight and should be picking it up by thursday or friday.

It was a tough choice but that RX8 is DAMN HOT !!!!!

Bye bye BMW ... Hello RX8

Congrats!! Hope you like your new 8:D

WOOHOO!!!!

Holy cr@p, Al!!

Cool!!

Congrats!!!

I think that decision should help speak volumes about the 8 too... if it can make a man give up a 330i, it's *got* to be good.

Different yes, but damn good.

Way to go! I'll be joining you in a few months! :)

Originally posted by 04RX8

but honestly, i wish i could feel that Pull when it goes from to 7k to 9k rpm
i only drove my 8 for a week or so... so i cant comment on it yet =P

One week and it's not broken in yet? I was up at 3 am driving the highways to put the miles on! I think I hit 600 miles in 3 days.

As far as the 7k to 9k pull. I'm spending more and more time in 3rd gear:D

To Carguy, congrats and welcome to the club!

Originally posted by red_rx8_red_int
One week and it's not broken in yet? I was up at 3 am driving the highways to put the miles on! I think I hit 600 miles in 3 days.

Took me over two months. :eek:

And WTG Carguy! :)

Welcome Carguy.
Stop at the drug store on your way home and get some wrinkle remover 'cause you're gonna need it get the grin off your face.

I'm with Carguy. I currently drive a 97 M3 and am on the fence about trading in. I LOVE the higher rpm capability of the RX-8, but am concerned that the overall performance of the car won't be up to what I am used to.

I've said the whole time I've owned my M3 that I would gladly trade it's low end torque for more post-6000rpm rush, so it isn't the powerband itself that concerns me so much as the feel of it.

I need another test drive - I think an RX-8 with chip mods and stiffer sway bars might be what I need...