Sooo..

I have progrees anti-sway bars.

For a while I had been experiencing a strang bump noise. It felt like some one was tapping the front under floor panel with a hammer when I would go over bumps.

Everything in the suspension was tight. I checked it over 3 times. By this I mean I took off the front under panel and tightend every bolt and nut on the car. This also included the entire front suspension.

1. I first thought I had a power steering rack issue because the car wandered a bit and I could tell on high speed turns, (100mph plus) that the wheel would move off center a tad bit.

I later realized I just need an alignment and some new tires for the tracking issues. The car follows groves easily. But it really does not bother me for canyon driving. But why did the steering wheel move?

2. I then looked into my motor mounts. I have a very small gap in between my bump stops. I thought that maybe my bump stops had been hitting from weakining motor mounts.

Motor mounts checked out fine.

3. Looked for any signs of unusual play and gaps and this is what I found.

I was pretty confident by now so I grabbed my camera so I could take before and after pictures.

The pictures below shows gaps forming where the anti-sway goes through the bushing that is secured by the provided anti-sway bar bracket. If you look closely you can see where the metal is lifting underneath the top bolt.

This play will allow the sway bar to move enough in a lateral direction under hard cornering to cause the issue stated in number 1 problem. "why did my steering wheel move a tiny bit while high speed corner?" It moved because suddenly there was more preasure on one side as opposed to the other. I was almost not noticable, but I felt it in the steering wheel.

You can also see that the bracket can not be centered due to the top nut. That is why the bolts are at the top of the slots.

In the third pic from the left, ( play 3 ), you can see the bracket bending and lifting away. AND you can see some STRESS CRACKS!!!

I took off the brackets and saw the deformation. I re-bent the brackets to be straight along with making the ends closer together. I made them close enough to where as I needed a hammer to tap them back on over the bushings.

You can see the warped bracket on the left and the fixed on on the right.

After fixing the brackets, I flipped both sides upside down. I wanted the un-bent side of the bracket up top since that is where most of the preasure will be. That is why you see the older marks.

So you can see that there is no longer a gap. I even added lock washers and a larger washer on top to reduce the area that can bend.

The photo on the left shows how the larger washers makes the area less able to bend.

The noise is gone. Everything is back to normal, the car feels more stable on high speed corners.

This my not be the same problem for everyone else. But it is still a problem for some.

I hope the write helps.

Ben

IMO this was caused by not centering the the bracket on the mounting nuts, in the before photo you can see that it's not centered which put a big area between the one hold-down nut and the bushing, I had the same thing happen with an aftermarket Energy Suspension bracket on a softer bar

adding the washers for more support is a good idea

they must have changed the design, I don't recall my brackets having slots, but this was several years ago

Yes Team, that is the issue. But you see the bolt on top that stops the bracket from being centered in the first place.

I will have to make another one out of stronger metal, that is also shorter so that it can be centered.

Great sway bar ruined by crappy brackets.

IMO this was caused by not centering the the bracket on the mounting nuts, in the before photo you can see that it's not centered which put a big area between the one hold-down nut and the bushing, I had the same thing happen with an aftermarket Energy Suspension bracket on a softer bar

adding the washers for more support is a good idea

they must have changed the design, I don't recall my brackets having slots, but this was several years ago

this is interesting,

as i have teams old bars, but have never had an issue.

one side had a slot. i will have to get under the car a look.

but for me no noise safe and sound..

beers :beer:

Yes Team, that is the issue. But you see the bolt on top that stops the bracket from being centered in the first place.

I will have to make another one out of stronger metal, that is also shorter so that it can be centered.

Great sway bar ruined by crappy brackets.

no, the Energy Suspension brackets do the same thing

you simply let the bracket overlay the bolt that holds the ABS cable hold-down.

When you center and bolt the bracket down the small amount of bracket over that bolt will bend as the top bracket bolt is cinched down

with the ES brackets I now cut that piece off with a bandsaw, but I did it like this for years without an issue, I'm sure it's posted on here somewhere

the brackets aren't crappy, they're just a universal type intended to fit a wide variety of applications, not just the RX-8, the Progress bars aren't high dollar, they could make dedicated brackets but would have to charge more since the production runs for them would be small

OK I'll meet you have way on this issues. The metal is low grade because it bent more easily then it should have. I could overlay the other bolt or simple bend that part up. But I should not have to as a customer. I also wanted to add the after I straighted the bent part on the bracket, I now have a nice stress crack.


But still, the sway bar increased the diameter of the bracket from movement.

Anyways, Thanks for everyones input. I see no fault of mine on installation. It is just an issue like any other issue when you start changing stuff to aftermarket stuff.

I love these bars, bracket was just an annoying issue.

I wonder if they made these brackets on a car without DSC. That bolt on top with that wire is part of the DSC system. Their would be no issue for people without DSC.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

Team, maybe the supplier is different from the ones you have. I mean seriously, These brackets really bent easy when I went to repair them. The metal is really low grade.

IMO this was caused by not centering the the bracket on the mounting nuts, in the before photo you can see that it's not centered which put a big area between the one hold-down nut and the bushing,

I would agree with this, its minor but I haven't had problems with this and I made sure to center the bolt on the "slot".

I'm always impressed to see how a really tiny abnormality like this can cause such an obvious noise/problem...

I agree too, obviously that IS why it bent.

I really hope nobody thinks that I am arguing that.

It is just that a better, more specific bracket could have been supplied.

I'm going to make other brackets because I want a stronger bracket and make it right so that I will not have to block access to another bolt.

Also, I know that there are others out there who will want a specific made bracket for the 8. I know some other brand anti-sway bars may have a difference in diameter though. Sooo.. what I would like to do might not help those guys.

Anyways.

Since I have the resources, I'll make some affordable brackets.

I'll make mine, if you guys like em, I'll make some for other people too.

The cost to make the bracket (materials), shipping, plus 5 bucks. All that should be less then 20 bucks. So what do you guys think, 20 bucks shipped for some beefier brackets. Made right, not slots, no over lapping bolts. Id prefer to use stainless steel, but that'll be 30 per bracket.

I just really really don't like it when metal bends. A strong bracket would not have bent, even if it was off center.

Ben

I wonder if they made these brackets on a car without DSC. That bolt on top with that wire is part of the DSC system. Their would be no issue for people without DSC.

Or maybe I'm wrong.


My car is a 2005 Base, no DSC, it is for the ABS cable, all RX-8s have ABS

Racing Beat uses a dedicated bracket (no slots) on their front RX-8 bar that uses the same bushing. They only advertise the bushings for replacement sale, but you might call to ask if the brackets are available too.

Otherwise you can but the Energy SUspension bushing/bracket assemblies, but they're a universal fit with slots and the bracket will overlay the ABS cable hold-down bolt head when centered properly

Thanks for the clarification. Anyways, The older brackets are 12 gauge metal, the ones I had bent too easily IMHO,. My new brackets will be 10 gauge and mild steel. Thanks for the feedback Team.

dude same thing happened to mine! i just ordered one bracket cause mine actually BROKE!lol if you do decide to make some beefier brackets im in!

I am already making them. I'll post picks once mine are done so you guys can see if you like them. I'll compare the brackets side by side too.

I had them done for a week now. The fabricator did a pretty good job. I installed my new brackets and no more bumping noise. These are also centered and do not have to be placed over any other bolts. I can offer these to other people, but they will be SS only. Mine are mild steel for the prototypes.

Ben

I had them done for a week now. The fabricator did a pretty good job. I installed my new brackets and no more bumping noise. These are also centered and do not have to be placed over any other bolts. I can offer these to other people, but they will be SS only. Mine are mild steel for the prototypes.

Ben

look very good ben.. :)

beers :beer:

Thanks Swoope, if anyone else wants some. SS brackets will be 55 shipped in the lower 48 states and 65 shipped to everywhere else. I'm not making money, well enough to pay for my gas and bridge toll to the fabricator..lol, I want to just spread some love.

Also, I noticed that the car turns in a bit better because the sway bar is bolted a little higher..(centered). Before with the sway bar bolted lower, it felt different. I have to re-learn the car.

I would like to suggest a cheaper fix

make square washers with a hole drilled in them such that when you put them on between the bracket and the nut they are up tight on the bushing side of the bracket and center it properly. IMO the extra stiffness on the bracket's mounting surface and centering will solve the problem completely. The mounting studs are long enough that that the square washers can be fairly thick and it will cost a whole lot less than $55 :uhh:

Thanks for making this thread. Have the same problem and couldn't find what was wrong. Re-tightened the entire suspension as well.

I agree with you team on the cheaper fix. I just made mine because I wanted a one piece solid bracket. Plus the SS one will not fail.

It will be upto the individual on which route they take. Both ways will work.

Progress and Racing Beat front anti-sway bars are 32 mm. So these brackets should be good for these two and what ever else sway bars are out there that are 32mm.

SS bracket pictures

An update for everyone.

The SS brackets I made for me and another member sheared at the bend. The new brackets I have available are only the standard steel but they are thicker and are reinforced with a weld on the top of the bend. I have sent this out to replace the SS ones I sold and these new ones are working fine.

Ben

Just was reading this and wanted to chime that if you did what I think you say you did, you just added a weld on the bend itself with no crack and not bonding any support to the bend.

If you did this, you just weakened the material up with a weld without bonding additional support and I wouldn't be surprised if it cracked there again. If I were you, I'd look into the metal selection and find a proper grade of steel contrast to normal mild steel to do the job; as an engineer that would be my route.

And as far as what Team said, the slots are not the problem nor the positioning. We have brackets just above those that come with the sway bar and prevents us from leveling the sway bar in the middle of the slots. Regardless, this does nothing to add to the stressing. The slots are there for adjusting to fit on the car with the brackets in the way, nothing more. In theory if you lowered or raised the sway bar via those slots if brackets on the car were not in the way, that's all they'll do; position it higher or lower. Perhaps in the case if you drastically lowered your car and had the stock or fixed end links then they might be an issue which then you should get adjustable end links.

I would agree with what you said, but you have not seen the new home made fix.

But then I reread you post and disagree, Positioning does matter with the original problem and that is why several people have had bent anti sway bar brackets. One side will flex and lift. I do not think you have read the entire thread. I agree with how you feel if you have not read the entire thread, but if you see what I found out then maybe you will see why I did what I did. G.I.Joe say knowing is half the power..lol


The brackets itself is thicker material now and material has been added at the weld. The fabricator did not just add a little weld across. It is beefy. I saw someone post new updated brackets from the company with arches welded on the top which I like too.

But either way you look at it, the original brackets were made out of weaker material.. period. The original designer choose bad material, Stainless Steel did not work well either.

Yes I know you can position it up down and what ever. But having a thick beefy bracket with fixed holes is the way to go. It is also nice that you do not have to lay it over in other bolts while trying to center the slotted brackets. Also look at Navy ships that are welded together on the hulls. I am sure that if you do the weld right with the right material, it will be strong as hell.

The ss brackets shear because they did not want to flex. I do not offer those anymore. They broke at the bend on me any someone else. The older steel ones were ok, but after the ss ordeal I said screw it and made some beefy ass ones that will never fail. The weld makes it stronger because I had the fabricator also add material to the back off the bend where it bolts down which you can not see in the photo. Hell, I go take a pic now..lol...brb.

Overall, it is hecka strong.

Well generally speaking, SS flexes so I'm not sure why you state it doesn't. It might of been stressed beyond the yield point of the material grade but SS in general, flexes. Tool steel is not meant to be flexed and will crack easily under flex. There are also different grades of SS to use that are stronger than one another with different treatments so if someone says SS didn't do it, well SS isn't "a" grade of steel.

To the positioning, it still should not matter. Why? Because all the positioning does it lift or lower the sway bar vertically along the diagonal frame member it bolts into. So long both sides are at the same height then you're fine and there is no binding. Theoretically speaking, you are not increasing or decreasing stress in the bar by adjusting it to any effective amount. The only importance it has to be adjustable is to get around other brackets in the way to fit in the car and/or if any adjustment is left, to move it for the stock end links which are fixed. For me I had adjustable end links so that didn't matter. Also, with the brake cable bracket right there in the way as you mentioned in this thread, you have limited movement already to even adjust it IF you wanted to.

Yes, I read the entire thread before I even replied. The bracket broke because likely you're using stock end links which position the sway bar at quite an angle and as you said, they're weak bracket material. Position of the sway bar brackets is quite limited and when positioned at the same height on both ends doesn't do anything to add/remove stress on those brackets. Perhaps we're looking at it from two different ends. If you are using fixed end links then you're saying it's the sway bar's positioning fault. I say because with what's in the way and our limits to adjust it, you should use adjustable end links instead. What you're doing is likely preloading those end links I bet and instead of them going first, the sway bar bracket is. I could be completely wrong, guess I'll find out with my adjustable links if those clamps give or not.

In a perfect world, regardless of bar height, if the end links are free on the sway bar at regular height with no preload and the sway bar is level even under load during twisting it won't twist in a straight line and is going to put some pressure against the bushings. This means height is irrelevant unless you have no means to adjust your end links and have enough adjustment to take preload off it by tinkering with the sway bar clamp brackets

I love that response Vlaze, I'm totally not being sarcastic. This is the very reason why the forums are so usefull. It is because of that input that helps us understand or think about the other potential reason as to what the real problem is.

I do not know all the grades of all the metals. I some is meant for bending and some are not. I do know that I could not use ss in this application for the reason you stated. The ss was bent past the integrity/flex point. The regular one worked fine. But I will ask my fabricator to what metal he used exactly. What ever he used is some pretty tuff shit and I have not had any problems. I do know that if stuff is not welded correctly is can cause more damage then good. But baised on my experience with the canyon driving and time attack events I have been to, my sway bar mounts worked like a charm and have no issues.

I do understand what you are saying and I think you for the input so that those of us can learn and understand what other know.

Thank you for the helpful input and putting me in forum check...lol

Ben

Thanks for posting about this issue. I've just started noticing this same noise. The other day i checked all my suspension bolts and they were tight so i didn't know what it could be :scratchhe

I bet my brackets have the same problem. They are pretty soft metal -- i've bent one before on accident. My brackets are also bolted off center so i'll be sure to make that adjustment too.

Sorry to revive this thread, but i think i am having the same issues here:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=207648

I will def take a look tonight to see if my brackets are loose or something. That would be spectacular if it is something as simple as that.

Progress sells new sway bar mounts to remedy this. I would just buy their new ones.

Ben

I took a look progress tech have me the new brackets. I assume they are the brass colored ones. They are pretty thick. I assume that's the one you are taking about

The ones im talking about have additional rails welded accross the bend. I hope you find the problem, I read your other thread, I think you have a different issue... bummer.

Same here thanks man, I think it might be the top lock nuts. Just got to pix up a strap wrench