Nope middle of the day on the way home from Road America. I'm not disenchanted with the car (though I DO think it's ridiculous that they didn't figure out the flooding thing before mass producing the car) just the crappy dealerships ...

Yep, it cranked and cranked and cranked. It almost caught once and some smoke came out (the way it did before when I dechoked it) but then it died right away and wouldn't catch again.

I figured, "hey, let's get this taken care of once and for all" and had it towed. It's just sad when I have to walk into a dealership (as a knowledgable consumer) and get treated like an idiot. I was also accused (to my face) as a "dealer-hopper." When I inquired as to what that was, she told me it's people who go from dealer to dealer because one dealership has voided their warranty. I assured her that was not the case, so she showed me a printout of all the dealers this car had been to. One of the supposed dealerships was THE PORT OF ENTRY into the states. I hope when I'm done that this stupid lying woman no longer has a job.

Can you tell I'm upset? :hahano:

I too am having the same problem as we speak. I had mine towed to the dealership late last night. I just got the new plugs starter and batt about a month ago. This was the first time it has flooded since the new "upgrades" but the 4th time overall. It's really starting to get old. I can't wait to see what they can tell me now. It sucks when you know more about what's going on with the car than the dealership :P Yet they treat you like your an idiot. I'll keep you guys updated...

I too am having the same problem as we speak. I had mine towed to the dealership late last night. I just got the new plugs starter and batt about a month ago. This was the first time it has flooded since the new "upgrades" but the 4th time overall. It's really starting to get old. I can't wait to see what they can tell me now. It sucks when you know more about what's going on with the car than the dealership :P Yet they treat you like your an idiot. I'll keep you guys updated...

What was the situation when you last turned off the car before the flood? Had the engine warmed up? Also, are you an AT or MT?

While there have been a few reports of people flooding a late model 2005 (built after 3/2005) or a car with all updates (battery, starter, plugs) it has been pretty rare. However, like any other engine, there are still problems that can cause flooding other than shutting down a cold engine.

HVN - did you previously vote above as a "no flood"? Too bad the poll won't reflect your change of status if you did.

.... When it didn't start I found this site and did some research. ... Commin' straight from the dudesse. :rofl:

MidLife - I was pretty sure it was flooded before having it towed so I voted Yes. But get this, they strongly suggested an oil change when the engine is flooded. They said that gas gets into the oil! Anyone I've told this to looks at me like I'm crazy. But I verified it with another dealership before ok'ing it and they agreed. And because its something they "strongly suggest" rather than mandate, its not covered under the warranty. I guess the gas breaks down the oil much quicker than it would otherwise. Hopefully this won't happen again.

Oh yeah! It'll get into the oil and totally grenade the oil's properties, primarily its lubricity. That's a surefire way to torture your engine.

It happens in piston engines too. Fuel injectors are supposed to spray gas in a fine umbrella spray pattern. Some hold back fuel pressure to a certain amount, then spray at any higher pressure - they either are full-on or full-off. Bad injectors dribble gas when the engine is off. They also fail by spraying badly. All this badly introduced gas into the engine has every chance to leak past the seals. In your flooded rotary - same thing. The gas is just laying in the rotory chamber all day/night long. It will eventually get past the seals and into the oil.

I once bought a '70 Porsche 911E. Its injectors were real bad. The oil smelled like gas real bad. The situation was bad enough that I convinced myself to rebuild the engine because of it. That was fun, it was a neat engine to tear-down and put back together with a new set of matched Mahle pistons 'n' jugs and other brand new porsche engine $$$ stuff. Ah, I digress... anyway...

Racer, I knew you'd have the lowdown....thanx

So, I just experienced the joy of the flooded engine as well. Happened this last weekend. I've had the car almost 2 years and no troubles. She's at the dealership now for the new plugs, battery and starter. They had to overnite my Control Unit to California for reprogramming to 'theoretically' keep it from happening again. While I was watching my baby being unloaded from the the flat-bed tow truck, there was a woman in a red 8 who said she'd been there 3 times for flooded engine troubles.

Dunno, seems like a major design flaw to me to not have some method of blowing the gas out of the rotary housing. :wallbash:

So, I just experienced the joy of the flooded engine as well.

I agree, the car should have never been sent to the US as flood-prone as the original configuration was.

Just curious, what is the build date on your 8? Is it a manual or automatic? Did it flood as the result of a short trip?

It sounds like you currently don't have any of the flooding upgrades (PCM level, battery, starter, leading plugs). In which case the work should give you a lot of added protection. I would still avoid shutting it off cold if possible.

I have flooded my engine twice now. After the first time, the car had to be put on a flatbed and taken to the dealer. They put in a heftier battery and I believe they replaced the starter and plugs. I thought that meant the problem was fixed. Apparently it wasn't... She's at the dealer again right now. The last I heard from them they said they have sent the PCM off to Mazda and are applying a software update to it. Apparently since the weather has turned here cool recently, they need to make an adjustment in the computer program for that. :wallbash: WHAT????????? My car needs a coat? It made it through the Winter, in fact 2 Winters, without any problem. Whatever. I'm pretty fed up. This is actually the THIRD time I've had it to the dealer on a flatbed and been without it for a better part of a week. I LOVE my Rx8, but I didn't sign up for a tempermental Ferrari. I'm ready to move on.

I agree, the car should have never been sent to the US as flood-prone as the original configuration was.

Just curious, what is the build date on your 8? Is it a manual or automatic? Did it flood as the result of a short trip?

It sounds like you currently don't have any of the flooding upgrades (PCM level, battery, starter, leading plugs). In which case the work should give you a lot of added protection. I would still avoid shutting it off cold if possible.

I've got an '04, not sure of the exact build date, I bought it in Sept. '04. It's an automatic. And yes, the flood was the result of a 'very' short trip. My wife and I had just returned from a roadtrip and I pullled it out of the garage so she could pull in. About 15ft worth of driving. I was so tired from the roadtrip that I didn't even think about the start/stop issues. Lesson learned I guess. :rolleyes:

I don't get this sending the PCM/ECU somewhere. Any Mazda service center can flash it. Anybody know what's up about this? I'm starting to raise the BS flag here...

Steelecowboy, I did that once not thinking, but re-started it so darned immediately when I realized what I was doing, I might had ground the starter pinion gear due to the engine not having come to a complete stop yet, hehehe... tough luck there...

DenaiD, must we ask if you shut her down cold?

msrecant is right that the rotary flooding problem should have been fixed by now. Your animalhouse fraternity types will NEVER "get it" when you tell them that they have to be careful about flooding this engine. That's too bad. The jury is still out however about who's fault it is after trying in so many ways to inform the owner of this. They tell you and tell you, but then, when you shut it down cold and it floods, is it really the car's fault? Is it right to call the car "tempermental"?

I don't get this sending the PCM/ECU somewhere. Any Mazda service center can flash it. Anybody know what's up about this? I'm starting to raise the BS flag here...

Agreed.

Regarding the upgards, every RX7 owner who has ever posted here about flooding has suggested that there is nothing that can be done about this problem on a fleet-wide scale. Mazda is not going to "fix" this, and I certainly don't think my car is flood proof with the upgrades. At best, I suspect they've given me a fighting chance with the de-flood procedure if it comes to that. I'm wondering what the deflood will cost after the warranty expires...

Mine has flooded in the winter due to dad moving car on driveway, and unfortunately it just flooded today and had to be towed. I left something in the house turned the car off after it was on for 30 or so seconds, and then it wouldn't start.

Sucks...

the only major complain i have about the renesis, other than fuel consumption.

Luckily the cars a beauty otherwise i'd boot it.

The jury is still out however about who's fault it is after trying in so many ways to inform the owner of this. They tell you and tell you, but then, when you shut it down cold and it floods, is it really the car's fault? Is it right to call the car "tempermental"?
My feeling (before and after the flood) is that if you can't reasonably guarantee a car will start it is a design flaw. There are a few items about a car that are pretty much required for mass production (imho):

starting
driving (straight and turn)
stopping

That's about it. I don't think that is asking too much as ANY crappy econobox these days can give you those.

My feeling (before and after the flood) is that if you can't reasonably guarantee a car will start it is a design flaw. There are a few items about a car that are pretty much required for mass production (imho):

starting
driving (straight and turn)
stopping

That's about it. I don't think that is asking too much as ANY crappy econobox these days can give you those.
It is the nature of the design for the past 40yrs and well known. 99% of that is chalked up to user’s ignorance. So we can't go blaming everything on Mazda. The world is a give take if you want to drive a rotary deal with it if not get something else.

Yeah Red, I bought a Yaris hatchback about a month ago. It's red, just like my 8. I call my 8 my red hot pepper and my Yaris my red bell pepper. :) And don't you dare call my Yaris a crappy econobox.

It does all three of those things you want a car to do quite well.

It does get the mpg it's advertised at. I'm averaging about 38 mpg with 2,500 already on the odometer.

It even has all 106 horsies, I'm pretty sure. It keeps up with the traffic just fine, it's even kinda naturally punchy coming out of a stoplight.

I never worry about it flooding and leaving me stranded somewhere.

It has lots of interior room and you sit surprisingly high in the saddle.

But, ask me which car I like better, I will answer with zero lag for thought.

It is the nature of the design for the past 40yrs and well known. 99% of that is chalked up to user’s ignorance. So we can't go blaming everything on Mazda. The world is a give take if you want to drive a rotary deal with it if not get something else.

I'm among the biggest rotary lovers in the world; I've owned several and I own 3 presently, however, it's still inexcusable for them to have brought these to market with this flooding un-resolved. If this is not totally taken care of the market will take care of it and we won't continue to see rotary production too far into the future.

If this is not totally taken care of the market will take care of it and we won't continue to see rotary production too far into the future.

It's interesting to me that I've never seen a discussion of this problem in the press -- and I've read every "RX-8" article I've been able to find since 2003. I still think a great many people don't believe the "flooding" problem is real.

I'm afraid that it's the gas prices that are going to kill this car, not the flooding problem.

I'm among the biggest rotary lovers in the world; I've owned several and I own 3 presently, however, it's still inexcusable for them to have brought these to market with this flooding un-resolved. If this is not totally taken care of the market will take care of it and we won't continue to see rotary production too far into the future.

Well said! :beer05:

My dealer has put in the new starter motor fix and has given me the new plug kit too. My car always starts now, the speed of the starter is much higher than before. I believe my problem is fixed now. I had one of the early production models with the weak battery, starter and plugs. They were all replaced and now I am happy with the starting issue. The total lack of power and poor mileage is still an issue. In California with gas at 3.80 per gallon it really hurts. If I keep the revs low and shift short I can squeeze out 17 mpg in mixed driving conditions. Only problem is that little old ladies in Camrays can beat me off the line! oh well!!! I am currently at 50,000 miles and the warrenty is now gone! Wish us all luck!

I believe my problem is fixed now.
I thought the same thing til my baby was on a flatbed being towed to the dealership. Crossing my fingers for you!

I thought the same thing til my baby was on a flatbed being towed to the dealership. Crossing my fingers for you!

I'll second that!

Just a little food for thought here... Those of you who arent worried about flooding issues(exspecially the a/t cars), what do you think the most common reason for engine replacement in the rx-8 is? Sticking apex seals due to carbon build up. What causes the carbon? Excess fuel not burnt and cooling on the rotor (most importantly the apex seals). The only way to prevent this is no cold shut offs (flooding more than once or twice probily means its too late), driving the heck out of the car regulary letting it rev up into the rpm band which means no grandma driving. This is very hard for a 4port(a/t) car, thats why we are putting so many engines in them, atleast 1car a week or so. And very importantly, change your plugs with high quality plugs ATLEAST every 30k, sooner in cold weather. AND CHECK YOUR OIL! different problem, but same symptoms. BTW, the bat. starter and plug kits, "no start" kits as we call them, only help start a partially flooded engine due to the needed cranking speed to clear the fuel and start the car. They DONT stop flooding.

Just a little food for thought here... Those of you who arent worried about flooding issues(exspecially the a/t cars), what do you think the most common reason for engine replacement in the rx-8 is? Sticking apex seals due to carbon build up. What causes the carbon? Excess fuel not burnt and cooling on the rotor (most importantly the apex seals). The only way to prevent this is no cold shut offs (flooding more than once or twice probily means its too late), driving the heck out of the car regulary letting it rev up into the rpm band which means no grandma driving. This is very hard for a 4port(a/t) car, thats why we are putting so many engines in them, atleast 1car a week or so. And very importantly, change your plugs with high quality plugs ATLEAST every 30k, sooner in cold weather. AND CHECK YOUR OIL! different problem, but same symptoms. BTW, the bat. starter and plug kits, "no start" kits as we call them, only help start a partially flooded engine due to the needed cranking speed to clear the fuel and start the car. They DONT stop flooding.

what is your ? furycustoms..

you seem to be putting all the motors in them. what are you finding???

seems like everything you mentioned has been covered here for quite a while...

what are you looking for?

and feel free to pm me for anything...

beers :beer:

well, honestly my questions are all retorical because I know most of the answers to them. Im just tired of people who are doing all the wrong things with these cars comming to me and complaining about them. Yeah, mazda made many mistakes, but problems with these cars can be avoided. I just bought a 05, but a guy I work with has a 04 with 120k miles on it. And it has never flooded or failed to start. But I suppose thats because we work on them... sorry, long day...

well, honestly my questions are all retorical because I know most of the answers to them. Im just tired of people who are doing all the wrong things with these cars comming to me and complaining about them. Yeah, mazda made many mistakes, but problems with these cars can be avoided. I just bought a 05, but a guy I work with has a 04 with 120k miles on it. And it has never flooded or failed to start. But I suppose thats because we work on them... sorry, long day...


when you are done... and having a good day. pm me your ???

i have lots of info for you...

i have not managed to flood mine.... 48k miles... and yes i run it.... hard very hard...

mazda made mistakes where???? and the 04 with 120k miles we need to know his or her name...

that is impressive... i have managed to get 48k on mine in 2 yr and 3 months...

beers :beer:

so fury, spell it out for us: what is it that owners are doing that is causing this problem? All finger pointing at Mazda aside...I'm not trying to start a fight, I am wondering wth I can be doing differently to not screw up my car.

....The only way to prevent this is no cold shut offs (flooding more than once or twice probily means its too late), driving the heck out of the car regulary letting it rev up into the rpm band which means no grandma driving.....

Driving the heck out of the car sounds good but on the other side of the coin, there are reports of Mazda voiding warranties for "abusive" driving and the stock clutch/transmission is known to be a weak link at high RPM shifts. Tiptoeing down the tightrope to keep the car alive isn't the best answer although it may be the only one.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy taking it to redline in a few gears at least once a day. It is the funnest option!

well, mx6 Im not saying to redline the car everytime you shift. However, it needs to be wound up quite often while driving. Its a high rpm engine and thats how it is designed to be driven. For example: I went on a test drive with a customer the other day. The way he was driving the car was like he was driving a diesel truck engine. Everytime he shifted, and he floored it several times by the way, he would shift by 2500, 3000 rpm. Now like I told him, you have 6000 more rpm here to play with. If traffic warrants a 3000 rpm shift, then you have no choice but I wouldnt shift sooner. However once you get the chance take it atleast to 4 or 5 k. Also, the only type of driving mazda will void your warranty for is racing, purpose over reving (past 9K more than 1 or 2 times), and they will no longer warranty an engine for lack of oil (the seals on the rear rotor will burn up and loose all compression if you run them will low oil). Now the stock clutches arnt worth a damn so you might as well save up for an aftermarket unit. And the 6 spds have some issues. If you "bang" your gears often while shifting, the dog teeth on the brass syncronizers will easily chew them selves up mainly for second gear. Mazda doesnt seem to have a problem with use repairing them under warranty. Also, FOR THOSE INTERESTED, mazda has updated the design of the shift forks. The old aluminum shift forks were cracking around the casting for the control rod because is was so thin. Well, the new ones are much beefier, exspecially around the control rod end so they should hold up much better.

so fury, spell it out for us: what is it that owners are doing that is causing this problem? All finger pointing at Mazda aside...I'm not trying to start a fight, I am wondering wth I can be doing differently to not screw up my car.
Well, do you have an A/T or a M/T. I also point my finger at mazda because they took all the little querks of the 13brew and made them into major engine threatening issues with the 13brenesis. The biggest problem, is with the fuel map on the stock pcms and the relocation of the exhaust ports. They were forced to go alot richer than the jdm rx-8s in order to get past usdm emission laws. Just look at the port flash for example. This combined with the unburnt fuel being recirculated back with the intake charge makes way for flooding and carbon problems. All of which has been argued about on this site. The rx-7, when they lost compression due to carbon build up all you had to due was pour in some atf through the intake and smoke out the neighbor hood. But that wont solve the problems on the renesis because the carbon forms under and inside of the apex seals. Aside from installing an afc, the only thing you can do is wind it up atleast once a day to clear out all the fuel and do not ever shut it off cold.

I have an M/T and gladly wind it up (I've been told I have a tendency to drive like an a$$hat). I also only shut it off cold once when she was new, I dechoked and learned the hard way about the cold shut downs.

The flooding that required a flatbed trip to the dealer was a puzzle ... no cold shut down.

did they do anything as to correct the issue? Your profile says that you have an o4 and their are several pcm calibrations that have been released "trying" to correct the issue. Did they put plugs in it? If not, as sad as it seems the only thing we will due when we get an rx-8 no start is put a jump box on it and dechoke it until it cranks, it can be tricky if it is badly flooded. If it wont crank then, we pull the plugs out and spin it over with the fuel cut off for a while, then put the plugs back in and try again. If that dont do it we check the compression and normally at this point there are several peaks with low or no compression. Thats normally when we call tech line and order an engine.

Oh man, the sorriest thing is that I believe it. Screw the TSB, we'll get this f__ker goin a whole lot easier. Yeah. Spinning a rotary like that, with all of the lubrication washed out of it, then you loose compression - gee, I wonder why? Then you order a new engine to replace the one you just f__ked-up. Good one, hah! I just pitty the Fayettevile RX-8 owners who's engine didn't need replacement after one or two of those... Nothing personal mind you, you just do as you're told...

did they do anything as to correct the issue? Your profile says that you have an o4 and their are several pcm calibrations that have been released "trying" to correct the issue. Did they put plugs in it? If not, as sad as it seems the only thing we will due when we get an rx-8 no start is put a jump box on it and dechoke it until it cranks, it can be tricky if it is badly flooded. If it wont crank then, we pull the plugs out and spin it over with the fuel cut off for a while, then put the plugs back in and try again. If that dont do it we check the compression and normally at this point there are several peaks with low or no compression. Thats normally when we call tech line and order an engine.
First time I brought her in for hard starts. They replaced starter and plugs. The battery had already been replaced. Second time she was flat-bedded in and they claimed the starter was never replaced (different out of town dealer that I don't like). They said they also replaced starter and plugs. When I asked about the WAY different starter sound (from after the first replacement) the idiot at the second dealership claimed that would be because of a reflash.

I am at R flash, new plugs, new starter, newish battery. I need to take her in for the constant brake squeal again (the dealer told me if it is still happening in 6 mos, that they would replace the rotors). I love this car, but sheesh, I've never had serious issues like this with a car before.

I don't know what I will do once the warranty runs out....

Any advice on the flood? Or the brakes, for that matter?

First time I brought her in for hard starts. They replaced starter and plugs. The battery had already been replaced. Second time she was flat-bedded in and they claimed the starter was never replaced (different out of town dealer that I don't like). They said they also replaced starter and plugs. When I asked about the WAY different starter sound (from after the first replacement) the idiot at the second dealership claimed that would be because of a reflash.

I am at R flash, new plugs, new starter, newish battery. I need to take her in for the constant brake squeal again (the dealer told me if it is still happening in 6 mos, that they would replace the rotors). I love this car, but sheesh, I've never had serious issues like this with a car before.

I don't know what I will do once the warranty runs out....

Any advice on the flood? Or the brakes, for that matter?
My guess would be one of two things with your flooding: Either the battery you have is no good (Not fully charged) or you have less than optimal compression. How many miles are presently on yours?

My guess would be one of two things with your flooding: Either the battery you have is no good (Not fully charged) or you have less than optimal compression. How many miles are presently on yours?
24K

24K
Yikes! I hope it's lack of cranking speed. Are you doing relatively short trip driving by chance? For your sake I'm hoping that you have dirty or slack battery terminals.

Is there a way for me to check the terminals so I can go in there and not let them push me around (even tho my local dealer is really quite good to me).

Is there a way for me to check the terminals so I can go in there and not let them push me around (even tho my local dealer is really quite good to me).
Your mileage is so low that your motor should be quite strong. You and everyone else should try to meet the top rotary tech at your dealer and develop a relationship with them (A healthy type relationship that is). Get them to test your present battery and to do a compression test. As they are performing that they can observe your plug condition. You shouldn't be having multiple floods.

Although I've been religous about performing the 3k rev for 10 seconds prior to [cold engine] shutdown, I forgot to after washing my car this weekend. No problem starting up the next morning. I do have the new starter and sparkplugs. Just FYI (although I'll still do the 3k thing).

For the first time ever my car was slowstarted.. It wouldnt start until approximately 10 "starter rotations"... This is also the first time I have parked my car uphill......

So basically if you park on the street and need to move it to the other side to avoid pay a parking fine due to time changes, you take a chance that your car may not start. Not user friendly....

So basically if you park on the street and need to move it to the other side to avoid pay a parking fine due to time changes, you take a chance that your car may not start. Not user friendly....

There are a variety of factors that go into it (updates, battery condition, ambient temp, phase of the moon, etc) but in general, yes, if you start the car and move it a short distance for ANY reason you should follow the Mazda "short trip" procedure in your manual/QuickTips otherwise you risk a flood.

- Let engine warm up to operating temp or for 5 minutes
- rev to 3K RPM and hold fo 10 seconds
- let engine return to idle
- turn off car

is the flooding more prominent in the mt or at?

is the flooding more prominent in the mt or at?
It's more prominent in people that don't know what they're doing.

There are a variety of factors that go into it (updates, battery condition, ambient temp, phase of the moon, etc) but in general, yes, if you start the car and move it a short distance for ANY reason you should follow the Mazda "short trip" procedure in your manual/QuickTips otherwise you risk a flood.

- Let engine warm up to operating temp or for 5 minutes
- rev to 3K RPM and hold fo 10 seconds
- let engine return to idle
- turn off car
Never done that once. Today for example I turned it on, back it out of the garage, turned it off, realized it needed to move over (washing it), turned it back on and backed up and centered the car, turned it off, washed the car, turned it on, moved it back into the garage, turned it off. Then an hour later I started it up and drove off. No hard start, no issue at all.

I have a smaller battery than stock that is LESS powerful, I have the normal "old" style starter and plugs, and zero updates. I have never once flooded the car, and have even tried.

What are you people doing? Seriously... This should be a healthy perfectly running rotary, and yet you still find ways to flood it? :confused:

What are you people doing? Seriously... This should be a healthy perfectly running rotary, and yet you still find ways to flood it?

Check out the 1200+ posts in http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=17498 . IMHO it is not the people, it is the car. Many 2nd and 3rd generation RX-7 owners are also very familiar with flooding and view the rotary as needing a little extra attention, including not shutting it off cold.

However, there are some people (like you) who do short trips all the time and never flood. Others forget and turn the engine off cold just once and it floods. There seem to be a number of variables related to flooding including the individual characteristics of a given car.

I believe that pre-2006 ATs (4 port engine) are more prone to flooding, but any RX-8 can flood (see the thread referenced above). The latest updates (battery, starter and leading plugs) dramatically reduced the chance of not being able to recover from a flood, but there are still a veryl few instances where that didn't protect the owner.

Many 2nd and 3rd generation RX-7 owners are also very familiar with flooding and view the rotary as needing a little extra attention, including not shutting it off cold.

A little wrong there. Many FB/FC/FD guys are familiar with flooding AFTER they've put significant miles and/or wear on the car. IE low compression or have not treated it properly. A new, good compression rotary should not flood. I had a 2nd gen rx7 (FC) for 3 years, and have been reading rx7club during that time also. The general consensus on flooding is the engine isn't in the best of shape or they're doing something stupid.

Many FB/FC/FD guys are familiar with flooding AFTER they've put significant miles and/or wear on the car. IE low compression or have not treated it properly.

As I recall, the posts I have read on this forum, from FB/FC/FD owners talking about flooding, were not qualified to indicate that flooding was only associated with poor engine condition. However, this is second hand info coming through me and I do not have direct experience with flooding RX-7s.

You can go to the above referenced thread and make your own judgement.

As I recall, the posts I have read on this forum, from FB/FC/FD owners talking about flooding, were not qualified to indicate that flooding was only associated with poor engine condition. However, this is second hand info coming through me and I do not have direct experience with flooding RX-7s.

You can go to the above referenced thread and make your own judgement.
You believe what rx8 owners have to say about rx7's? Most the stuff posted on here about rx7's is stereotypical crap from people (most of the time) that have never owned one.

RX7's do not have flooding issues unless they have been mistreated, not maintained properly, or have high mile and low compression engines.

And why are you linking the the same thread we're posting in now? Do you think I'm stupid? Yes I've read this, and I've watched the Mazda information DVD about flooding and I still think something else is going wrong here.

Do you think I'm stupid?
yes.

yes.
That's fine, you have a right to your opinion.

But what exactly makes all of you "rotary experts" all of a sudden? I'm not claiming I am by any means, but just because you own a rotary does not mean you all of a sudden know everything about them.

Sure some people might have problems with flooding, the question is WHY. There has to be something else going on here. Even look at the poll, there are more people that have voted NO to the ever flooded your rx8 question than YES by over 200. People that are flooding their rx8's are a minority. The only reason it's so publicized and Mazda had to put out crap to inform and "fix" it is because there are people doing it. They do not want unhappy customers or bad publicity, so if there are say 5% of rx8 owners with this issue, it will still be fixed. Minority issues can still be blown way out of proportion, example is this thread.

Do you see the thousands of people that have never flooded their rx8's making threads saying "how many of you haven't ever flooded your rx8?" Absolutely not, because if there is not a problem they don't even think twice about it.

Being that this is a minority issue, there has to be SOME OTHER REASON it is happening that it just being the car.

Oh and in regards to this statement "1200+ posts in http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=17498 . IMHO it is not the people, it is the car"

I'm willing to bet the majority of those posts are by reacurring users. Probably just the same people over and over again saying "yah flooding sucks" or "omg I flooded my car again" and so on, with bits and pieces from various other flooders and non-flooders.

Plus it's common on rx8club for threads to be blown up into 1000+ posts and tons of pages from mere chit chat and useless posting.

Hey, I'm all ears to why this is happening. Mine has flooded a bunch of times. Yes, I had the new starter, battery and plugs put in and STILL FLOODED.

And the thing that so incensed me about your post was that it was NOT user error. Some seem to be prone to flooding. Don't you think we are trying to figure out why???? Do you think it's fun to have a dead car when you're stranded in another state and they flatbed you to an unknown dealer???

What about wanting to find a solution makes us "rotary experts"??? We are in a forum trying to figure out how to make it stop happening. Consider yourself lucky that every time you put the key in to start, she turns over and you are able to be on your merry way. Some of us aren't so lucky.

Plus it's common on rx8club for threads to be blown up into 1000+ posts and tons of pages from mere chit chat and useless posting.
So stop posting here and let us get back to figuring out why it's happening....

sheesh

i am also one of those people that cant manage to flood my car... and i back it out of the driveway and turn it off....

have had it for 2.5 years and 51k miles... do have the bigger battery. but not the starter...

i do the rev to 4k thing now before shutdown on a cold engine now... but did not the first year...

it is odd how selective it is..

beers :beer:

Simple, it's the people and their driving style.

Unplug your battery for a day, hook it back up, do the 20x brake pump to reset the PCM. After that you'll have a fresh start. From then on out if you're worried with short trips, extreme cold/hot days, backing out and having to turn it off immediately, or whatever just do this simple trick. Punch the gas, in neutral, up to 4 or 5k rpms and CUT OFF the engine (ie take the key out) while it's on its way UP. Do not wait until it reaches the point and holds it there, or don't wait while it's falling back down, do it on the way up. Mazda's "technique" is the extreme way for people that do not understand this concept. RX7 guys have been doing this for YEARS when they have weak engines and flooding problems, it's no new trick.

Oh and about my driving style comment. For automatics it's not their fault, it's the fact they have an automatic. Automatic rx7's have notoriously had more issues as well, ie engines don’t last as long, more carbon buildup, more flooding, lower compression, etc etc etc. This is because they don't get rev'd up very high often enough. After you reset the ECU, at least every other day, if not more, rev the car up under load. Take it to redline in first gear, drive it like it should be driven... Avoid driving at constant rpms for extreme amounts of time, keep it in the 3k range, and so on. Do this consistently after you reset everything. Constant low rpm driving allows more carbon to remain in the engine, more oil injection buildup due to the inherent issues with the MOP systems on rotary cars, and an easier situation to flood the car.

That's my advice, take it as you wish.

Hey, I'm all ears to why this is happening. Mine has flooded a bunch of times. Yes, I had the new starter, battery and plugs put in and STILL FLOODED.

And the thing that so incensed me about your post was that it was NOT user error. Some seem to be prone to flooding. Don't you think we are trying to figure out why???? Do you think it's fun to have a dead car when you're stranded in another state and they flatbed you to an unknown dealer???

What about wanting to find a solution makes us "rotary experts"??? We are in a forum trying to figure out how to make it stop happening. Consider yourself lucky that every time you put the key in to start, she turns over and you are able to be on your merry way. Some of us aren't so lucky.
Then sell the car, jeez. If it has SO many issues, causes you SO much trouble, and you are SO frustrated about it, sell it. And if you think it's random rx8's that do or don't have it, sell it and get another one! Maybe you'll get "lucky" next time :p:

Then sell the car, jeez. If it has SO many issues, causes you SO much trouble, and you are SO frustrated about it, sell it. And if you think it's random rx8's that do or don't have it, sell it and get another one! Maybe you'll get "lucky" next time :p:
wow, not gettin any?

No I get plenty, thanks.

And why are you linking the the same thread we're posting in now?

Sorry, I had just finished posting in another flooding thread and didn't realize which thread I was replying to.

A little wrong there. Many FB/FC/FD guys are familiar with flooding AFTER they've put significant miles and/or wear on the car. IE low compression or have not treated it properly. A new, good compression rotary should not flood. I had a 2nd gen rx7 (FC) for 3 years, and have been reading rx7club during that time also. The general consensus on flooding is the engine isn't in the best of shape or they're doing something stupid.

dDub,
You are amazing! You're so naturally insultive, acting like members of the 8 community are all so ignorant and less informed than you.
As I've stated on this forum for years: All rotaries are somewhat prone to flooding in comparison to their piston powered cousins; the 8 is just the worst offender of all. My observation of the situation leads me to conclude that, whereas it leads you to conclude that it's the owners.
By the way, I flooded a brand new FD when I worked for Mazda back in the day (Weak battery).

dDub,
You are amazing! You're so naturally insultive, acting like members of the 8 community are all so ignorant and less informed than you.
As I've stated on this forum for years: All rotaries are somewhat prone to flooding in comparison to their piston powered cousins; the 8 is just the worst offender of all. My observation of the situation leads me to conclude that, whereas it leads you to conclude that it's the owners.
By the way, I flooded a brand new FD when I worked for Mazda back in the day (Weak battery).
Is it more likely than a modern day piston? Of course. Did it happen now and then to new rx7's? Yes. Was it common? Absolutely not.

I am speaking about how it is not very COMMON for it to happen on rx7's unless it was not maintained properly, low compression, yadda yadda yadda.

Some of you think I'm being insultive, I'm not. Remember the internet does not carry tone very well.

The spraying/paint shop just called me... They couldnt start the engine :( I told them the flooding procedure, so I hope they get the car starting. I also called my local Mazda dealer about the new battery & starter issue, but they had no TSB for it. I guess USA and EU have different TSB's? (I have the new plugs)

Can I do anything myself? Buy a better battery?

The TSB's have the MNAO identification in the header, so, I guess they must be North American. The new battery and statrer ROCK, seriously. It would be a shame to waste a perfectly good flood (sorry, I'm just trying to be funny here d'oh!) and not come away from it without those goodies installed for free!...

I guess there is nothing I can do...

Is it more likely than a modern day piston? Of course. Did it happen now and then to new rx7's? Yes. Was it common? Absolutely not.

I am speaking about how it is not very COMMON for it to happen on rx7's unless it was not maintained properly, low compression, yadda yadda yadda.

Some of you think I'm being insultive, I'm not. Remember the internet does not carry tone very well.

That's my whole point. The Renesis has more of a problem than the earlier rotaries, so the poor owners who have experienced a flood aren't necessarilly abusive or un-informed. It has happened to people doing all of the things that you recommended. The problem has always been insufficient cranking speed in relation to to sealing capabilities, taking into consideration sparkplug condition and heat range and having to operate in a moving combustion chamber with the worst shape for flame propagation of any modern engine. The Renesis is just worse because it doesn't easily expell excess fuel out of it's exhaust ports and for some reason between Mazda engineers and bean counters they overlooked the need for a better battery and starter initially.
THE PROBLEM IS REAL. People aren't making this up or imagining this.

I guess there is nothing I can do...Get with your local Mazda service rep. This upgrade is practically free for the mere asking in North America. I got the whole deal (for free) just because I told my service guy that it was seeming to want to flood lately! I didn't even have a flood yet! Your service department must conform to Mazda service standards, and there must be an area Mazda rep who's job is to see that they do. Find him if your service department refuses you! Where are you anyway?

Get with your local Mazda service rep. This upgrade is practically free for the mere asking in North America. I got the whole deal (for free) just because I told my service guy that it was seeming to want to flood lately! I didn't even have a flood yet! Your service department must conform to Mazda service standards, and there must be an area Mazda rep who's job is to see that they do. Find him if your service department refuses you! Where are you anyway?


I'm in Norway :) (A little nice country :))

I just spoke with Mazda Norway, and they told me that the starter/battery fix didn't apply to my car as it was not within the "VIN" range the fix applied to. (May 2004).

Would a powerful aftermarket battery help me?

An upgraded battery will help some, but the biggest benefit of this "package" comes from the upgraded starter motor.

Did you check the TSB for VIN range?

Yeah...

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf

"APPLICABLE MODEL(S) / VINS

2004-2005 RX-8"

I just spoke with Mazda Norway, and they told me that the starter/battery fix didn't apply to my car as it was not within the "VIN" range the fix applied to. (May 2004).

A May of 2004 build (check the driver's door jamb) should still need the battery, starter and leading plugs. I would print out the Service Bulletin (click here) (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf) , take it to the dealer and discuss why they believe the updates do not apply. Even though its an MNAO document, the dates when changes were applied to the production line should be world wide.

From the Service Bullletin the updates are as follows:

- PCM calibration - The PCM calibration was modified to reduce fuel injection amount during cold conditions. PCM calibration was modified in vehicle production on 3/12/04.

- Battery - A higher capacity battery was introduced (6/1/04).

- Engine starter - Revised to increase cranking compression at engine start. Implemented into vehicle production 11/8/04 (For AT models), 12/1/04 (For MT models).

- Leading spark plugs - The leading spark plugs have been revised to reduce the possibilities of fuel flooding at cold engine start. Revised leading spark plugs were implemented in vehicle production on 3/22/05.


In answer to your question, you can always purchase the updated 640 CCA battery, either from Mazda (part #0000-80-6535-WB) or from a automotive store (Interstate brand “MTP35” battery). You say you already have the new plugs. The main issue is getting the upgraded starter. I would keep pushing to get it.

Good luck!

Good answers :)

I'll print the TSB and take it to my dealer... (On monday actually)

I'll keep you all updated.

If having to run the engine for 5 minutes before you move it means that it's flooding, the answer is an emphetic YES!

I've got to do this every morning if I want the car to move! I actually thought it might be something wrong with my auto-box till I read a thread on how the box's control is all powerful.

If anyone can tell me exactly what I can do to cure this... ? Pulleeeeeesssse?

If having to run the engine for 5 minutes before you move it means that it's flooding, the answer is an emphetic YES!...NO!

:hahano: Succinct, Racer X....

Maybe there's some1 else out there with a slightly larger vocabulary! :mdrmed:

:hahano: Succinct, Racer X....Hey, did I juat get cussed at? :cwm27:

No, uh, maybe there's another thread that discusses that issue.... :scratchhe

If having to run the engine for 5 minutes before you move it means that it's flooding, the answer is an emphetic YES!

This is a myth. No where does Mazda recommend running the engine for 5 minutes before moving the car.

I just got the TSB stuff done to my car. My car was out of warranty before the TSB came out, so I paid for it out of pocket. I have never flooded the car, but it was often very slow to start, and I have some big road trips planned for September. This was for peace of mind as much as anything else.

The new starter/battery combo is awesome! I cannot believe the difference. I was actually startled by how quickly the car started this morning. LOL

For those of you who are still under warranty and don't have these upgrades, please go get them. It's free, and you won't regret it.

I have one question: Does anyone know what the warranty is for the new spec battery? I forgot to ask the dealer...

Good question about the battery. I don't know.

Mind if I ask how much the work was?

If having to run the engine for 5 minutes before you move it means that it's flooding, the answer is an emphetic YES!
Uhh, here's what Mazda says about warming up the car. You should have gotten one of these with the car if you purchased it new.

Good question about the battery. I don't know.

Mind if I ask how much the work was?


It's not cheap. I don't have the work order/receipt with me, but it was somewhere around $750 for new battery/plugs/starter/labor. I really wish this TSB had come out earlier. :D:

Damn, I bet if you actually HAD a flood, you could have argued your way into having it done under warranty. I guess since it was more of a precautionary measure, they probably won't like that too much. <shrug>

Even though I was fully aware that I was going to have to pay for it and willing to do so, they still asked me a bunch of questions about why I wanted the service done. It was like they didn't want to do it. I told them it sometimes takes 7 or 8 seconds to start and scares me when it does it, and told them about my upcoming road trips, and they finally agreed it would be a good idea to do the work.

Thanks GO48. Most helpful. Will try the de-choke right now.

No Racer x-8. You didn't get cussed at! LoL

Sorry that the chances are that I'd never be on line when you guys are - I'm based in Sri Lanka. But let me tell you this is a life line! I'm a rotary 'newbie' in case you didn't guess that already...

I guess this ins't the right thread to join about my car's problem. Anyone knows which thread deals with uneven running while the engine's cold... ?

Ok everyone, I've owned my '05 since December and followed all the advice from the forums and the manual, I even roll the car out of the garage to wash it to avoid this dreaded flooding issue. But yesterday after running the engine for an HOUR on a drive to a great hiking spot, I turned it off. When I returned to the car a few hours later - it wouldn't start! No kick, just crank, crank, crank. After hitchhiking 5 miles to the nearest phone (I was in a national forest - ne cell service) and another 4 hours waiting for a tow through roadside service (NOT impressed, Mazda), I was finally on the way to the dealer - Skyland Mazda in Asheville, NC. And today my service manager confirmed the worst - the engine flooded. And he blamed the fact that I have been running regular gas lately. So they are cleaning the spark plugs and I'm back to normal (?) WTF??? :sad:

Anybody out there with a similar experience? This doesn't seem to fit any previous pattern. Can regular gas really be the culprit? I doubt it, but I'd love to hear from others.

if you've gone through the trouble of getting it there for a flood ... they better have replaced your plugs, starter and battery under the TSB.

Sorry Red,

I should have mentioned that this was a post-June 2005 build. So it already had all those mods in it. The weird part is it happened when warm after a 1-hour journey.

ok, then that is just weird!

sounds like your plugs were fouled. the fouling could be cause by incomplete combustion of low grade gas . poor spark = flood. but keep an eye on your battery as well. maybe have it tested. how many miles?

if you've gone through the trouble of getting it there for a flood ... they better have replaced your plugs, starter and battery under the TSB.

If TOMINAVL has a late 2005 build, then the TSB upgrades do not apply. All TSB upgrades are in cars built after March 2005. The TSB is then just a deflood procedure which includes cleaning/replacing the plugs, among other steps.

sounds like your plugs were fouled.

Zoom,

Do you really believe that using regular gas fouled the plugs?

It has only 5K miles. And the battery was cranking engine just fine. So maybe my being cheap on gas is the issue? Then I'll stick to premium! In my experience, fouled plugs would have shown me early warning signs, like rough idle, poor acceleration, bad gas mileage etc. None of these symptoms were present. Well, tomorrow I'll be picking it up and maybe I'll learn more...I still love my ride!

low quality gas is what i meant- there is a bigger chance you get low quality gas with low octane than there is with higher octane gas.

It has only 5K miles. And the battery was cranking engine just fine. So maybe my being cheap on gas is the issue? Then I'll stick to premium! In my experience, fouled plugs would have shown me early warning signs, like rough idle, poor acceleration, bad gas mileage etc. None of these symptoms were present. Well, tomorrow I'll be picking it up and maybe I'll learn more...I still love my ride!
When flooded sometimes they will crank even quicker as the compression is compromised by the excessive fuel and it's effects. This still could be brought about by a weak battery, so have it checked. Is your car auto or manual? I get the strange impression that you don't drive it very hard. Fouled plugs are most likely the culprit. Are most of your trips rather short? If this is the case you may be following Mazda's guidelines but still guilty of some of the traits that encourage a flood (The car seldom ever getting to 'full' operating temperature). These are, of course, just suggestions.

low quality gas is what i meant- there is a bigger chance you get low quality gas with low octane than there is with higher octane gas.

I'm not sure that I buy that theory. Why does low octane = low quality? :icon_bs:

One could argue that most people buy regular so it is fresher.
One could argue that low octane ignites easier/ earlier in the stroke and therefore more completely.
One could argue that the manual states that you can use 87-90 octane with a slight reduction in performance - and based on experience I would say very slight.

I would be interested to know if you drive it hard some times and if the plugs were carbon fouled or fuel/oil fouled.

My 2004 VR Auto had a flood no-start after 14000 miles despite never having tasted a drop of gasoline with octane below 93. No regular and no mid-grade. Always the best stuff. So I would suggest use of low octane gas was not the only thing that was done wrong. I use it in tiptronic mode almost exclusively and run the RPMs up frequently. I would say that having the car sit for a week in intense cold conditions, albeit inside an unheated garage, let the battery run down a bit and that more than anything else resulted in the flood no-start for me.

low octane does not mean low quality. but you have a higher chance of poor quality with low octane simply because many of the producers use s formulations that dont have all the oterh good stuff they stick in the hi octane stuff.

1. whether its "fresh" or not bad gas is bad gas

2. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/
Antiknock ability is _not_ substantially related to:-

The flame speed of the conventionally ignited mixture, this should be
evident from the similarities of the two reference hydrocarbons.
Although flame speed does play a minor part, there are many other factors
that are far more important. ( such as compression ratio, stoichiometry,
combustion chamber shape, chemical structure of the fuel, presence of
antiknock additives, number and position of spark plugs, turbulence etc.)
Flame speed does not correlate with octane.

low octanes do not always burn more completly than their higher octane counterparts. in fact much if not most of the "good" gasoline in hi octane form burns more completly- not because of the octane but becasue of the rest of the formulation

3. one could argue that. and again its not the octane but the quality. and also remember that in some areas (california for instance) you cant count on 87 being 87.

i would liek to know how his plugs are as well
im not trying to suggest that the low grade was the one and only cause of his trouble- only that yes indeeed it could be a contributing factor.

i know this isnt a knock thread but just wanted to get this out there as it talks abotu having an 87 not be an 87

Some fuel specifications include delta RONs, to ensure octane distribution
throughout the fuel boiling range was consistent. Octane distribution was
seldom a problem with the alkyl lead compounds, as the tetra methyl lead
and tetra ethyl lead octane volatility profiles were well characterised, but
it can be a major problem for the new, reformulated, low aromatic gasolines,
as MTBE boils at 55C, whereas ethanol boils at 78C. Drivers have discovered
that an 87 (RON+MON)/2 from one brand has to be substituted with an 89
(RON+MON)/2 of another, and that is because of the combination of their
driving style, engine design, vehicle mass, fuel octane distribution, fuel
volatility, and the octane-enhancers used.

After being chastised by the dealer on this whole gasoline issue, I was surprised to learn that the only reason my car wouldn't start was....a 10 amp fuse was blown! :wallbash:

The dealer was prepared to blame me for burning regular grade gas which he insists will foul up the plugs and cause flooding. I say that is a lot of crap, after all, the flooding issues present in the '04 and early '05 builds was not caused by the grade of fuel, but by other things that have been discussed in this thread. So after all that, I get my car back from the dealer, and after getting a little atttitude when I asked WHICH fuse, he told me it was the one that controls the fuel pump. Meaning NO FUEL was getting to my engine = no start.

Sorry to all of you that had to get involved in this case of poor dealership relations. Next time they should leave their assumptions to themselves and not try and blame their customers when something goes wrong.

BTW, for the record I take the engine to redline several times a week, and only when it is warm. Probably the best way to keep the plugs clean. And I plan to continue to burn regular grade fuel. If the plugs foul, then my bad, I'll just clean or replace them! The less the dealer messes with my car, the better.

:wiggle:

when I asked WHICH fuse, he told me it was the one that controls the fuel pump. Meaning NO FUEL was getting to my engine = no start.

They still probably think it's your fault. Obviously having to pump regular gas (vs premium) overstressed the fuel pump and blew the fuse. :D:

Seriously, your incident shows two things. First, how everyone (dealership, me, other people on this forum) thinks that when an 8 doesn't start it must be flooded. Second, the wild conjecture that people will accept as to the cause of the flood (running regular gas). An amazingly emotional topic.

Thanks for the original post and the followup. It helps put perspective on the whole issue ... that sometime cars (with any type of engine) fail to start and simply need to be fixed.

My 8 flooded after being driven over 100 miles and then parked over weekend.
On monday it would not start. I tried the dechoking procedure as shown on the "Update DVD" I was sent and it wouldn't start.
It was towed to the dealership with flooding as the diagnosis.
Then I was given the "idiot speech" about flooding from the service guy.
Boy was I pissed. I am always careful about this.

My 8 flooded after being driven over 100 miles and then parked over weekend. On monday it would not start. I tried the dechoking procedure as shown on the "Update DVD" I was sent and it wouldn't start. It was towed to the dealership with flooding as the diagnosis. Then I was given the "idiot speech" about flooding from the service guy. Boy was I pissed. I am always careful about this.

tominavl reported a similar incident that ultimately turned out not to be a flood.

What year is your 8? If its build date was before 4/2005, have you had the TSB flooding updates done? Is your dealer really sure that it was flooded (tominavl has a blown fuel pump fuse, other people have had dead batteries) or did they just jump to that conclusion?

I have four quick questions...i apologize if these questions have been answered already.

1) What exactly is engine flooding? i was reading most of these posts, but i couldnt find a good explanation of what it exactly is.

2) Ive noticed that this has been happening on '04 Rx-8s. I remember a mazda salesperson told me that mazda stopped making rx-8's from years '04-'05 to fix the engine. I was wondering if there are any engine floodings that have occured on the '05 and '06 rx-8's. btw, i have an '06. Please post any.

3) Does this mean that the car always has to be warmed up no matter if the engine is broken in? If that is the case, frankly im disappointed to read how much work has to be put in for it to function properly. I just got my 8 three weeks ago, and I just feel like it's just too much effort.

4) What does TSB mean? The posts say that i can have the battery/starter upgraded for free under warranty. Is this upgrade applicable if the engine hasnt flooded yet? Can i still have this upgrade for free to be safe for any future mishaps?

If someone could respond as soon as possible, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

1) What exactly is engine flooding? i was reading most of these posts, but i couldnt find a good explanation of what it exactly is.

Flooding is when the car will not start because of too much fuel trapped in the combustion chamber.

2) Ive noticed that this has been happening on '04 Rx-8s. I remember a mazda salesperson told me that mazda stopped making rx-8's from years '04-'05 to fix the engine. I was wondering if there are any engine floodings that have occured on the '05 and '06 rx-8's. btw, i have an '06. Please post any.

I believe the salesman is refering to the fire in the RENESIS manufacturing plant that shut down engine production for several months and has nothing to do with flooding. Mazda has made 4-5 major upgrades over time to address flooding with the last being introduced into production in March 2005. That is why newer cars, or older cars with the updates applied (there is a TSB) have no/less flooding problems. Between the upgrades and education the problem has almost been eliminated.

3) Does this mean that the car always has to be warmed up no matter if the engine is broken in? If that is the case, frankly im disappointed to read how much work has to be put in for it to function properly. I just got my 8 three weeks ago, and I just feel like it's just too much effort.

I believe that Mazda still recommends that short trips (cutting the engine off cold) should be avoided. As your 8 is a new '06 you would know better than I. Does your Quick-Tips guide still say that short-trips should be avoided? Some people with older 8s have never followed this and have never flooded. Other people (like myself) who have had all the upgrades done still do it just to be safe. Your choice.

4) What does TSB mean? The posts say that i can have the battery/starter upgraded for free under warranty. Is this upgrade applicable if the engine hasnt flooded yet? Can i still have this upgrade for free to be safe for any future mishaps?

TSB stands for Technical Service Bulletin. You can see the list at http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/bulletins_index.html . The one relating to flooding is "Engine Cranks No Start". Many dealers will do the upgrades (battery, starter and plugs) as long as you are still under warranty and you reference some form of starting difficulty (slow starting). Some deaqlers refuse but people have successfully gotten the upgrades authorized by calling the MNAO 800 number and requesting the upgrades to improve their starting. With the recent press releases about the engine recall there has been language that battery and starters will also be checked when they do the engine testing. I don't know if that implies they will be unconditionally upgrading cars to avoid flooding issues.

Since you have an '06, you already have all the upgrades, plus you should have gotten new plugs installed just before you picked up your car.

Flooding is when the car will not start because of too much fuel trapped in the combustion chamber.

With the recent press releases about the engine recall there has been language that battery and starters will also be checked when they do the engine testing. I don't know if that implies they will be unconditionally upgrading cars to avoid flooding issues.

Since you have an '06, you already have all the upgrades, plus you should have gotten new plugs installed just before you picked up your car.

Had the recall 4206F done on my 04, They also did the "engine cranks, no start" (Bulletin 01-004/05). Battery was okay but they replaced the starter with replacement of the two leading plugs per 01-004/05. They also did the PCM reflash per 4206F. I've had no loss of power or idle problems. I also have not experiened hard starting. However I have been religious about not starting the engine and shutting it down before it is warmed up.

sry if this question has been asked but there are just to many pages in here. im kinda a newb when it comes to manuals ( i have driven my dads volvo s40 a little so i know how to use a manual just not really well yet). my question is if i stall an rx-8 either an 05 or an 06 will it flood the engine.

No, don't worry about that. Just re-start it, especially if the engine has not reached normal operating temperature (temp. gage). The flooding problem is from turning off a "cold" engine, don't let it turn off cold for very long. That's all.

Sorry if I repeat something, but my attention span wouldn't survive reading all the posts. I flooded my MT a few months after owning the car. I used the RX8 to jump a cycle, feeding gas once. The next time I went to start the car, it cut off 2 sec.s later. I had it towed to the dealer who stated they flushed everything and installed a quicker starter as well, to help the system clear out on a crank faster to limit flooding. But yes, flooding is a common problem for rotary's, particularly in the cold weather where a trip to the corner store may not allow the engine to warm up. Bottom line, be conscious of your temp gauge.

I have experienced my engine shutting off twice after driving errands in about 100 degree days .. Last time I had been driving the car for most of the day shopping. So 10 minute to 20 minute between each stop. I then hopped on the freeway doing 70 or so for about 15 minutes then pulled up to a stop light and car rpms jumped on idle and motor stopped... Car then would not start. I tried the "flooded" start method ect. Nothing.. Engine would turn over and over but never start. It was very similar to vapor lock. Maybe flooded after so many attempts to start. After 20 minutes and waiting for the police to show up to get me out of traffic. The car started. That's when I bypassed the coolant to the throttle body and haven’t had the problem again.

I need to change my vote because my car had always started at the time I voted. It didn't matter if I only drove it for 2 seconds and shut it off, or if the outside temperature was minus 25C. It went through several hard winters in deep snow, salt, slush, and cold with never a starting issue.

Then for no reason at all, after being parked overnight in the garage, on a warm spring afternoon, it would not start, and the Mazda no-start procedure would not work. I removed the plugs which looked OK except for being wet with gas. I dried them and squirted some oil in the sparkplug hole, but it did no good. The car had to be towed to the dealer who also could not start it. They replaced the spark plugs and the starter and got it going.

The car started well but a few months later I had the car in a body shop. They drove it in after the car sat overnight. Did a bit of work on it and then could not start it again. They called me and I was able to start it, but it took a bit of doing. There has since been an emissions recall, and the car was reflashed with the most current flash. Apparently this flash again recognizes the no-start problem and does something to help revent it. We'll see, but I don't have the confidence in this car starting that I used to have.

So is there a mechanism for changing your vote?

Sorry if I'm rehasing something from like the 10,000 posts on this issue, but I recall that someone w/ significant rotary background mentioned something to watch out for after a flooding, esp. with the Renesis.
After a flooding, the the excess remaining fuels would swamp the apex seals, in addition to the plugs, and would eventually result in excessive wear on the seals as the seals would then dry out. Any additional information on this?

Sorry if I'm rehasing something from like the 10,000 posts on this issue, but I recall that someone w/ significant rotary background mentioned something to watch out for after a flooding, esp. with the Renesis.
After a flooding, the the excess remaining fuels would swamp the apex seals, in addition to the plugs, and would eventually result in excessive wear on the seals as the seals would then dry out. Any additional information on this?

no the apex seals would not dry out if you flood the motor..

they would be wet.

they just dont seal very well... and the plugs dont fire well, because they are wet.


beers :beer:

Actually, what I meant was that AFTER the flooding, when the seals would eventually dry out. In other words, the drying out after the initial moisture/condensation (from flooding) may lead to excessive wear on the seals, making them more brittle and suspectible to premature deterioration. This is what I recall from a post a year ago.

Actually, what I meant was that AFTER the flooding, when the seals would eventually dry out. In other words, the drying out after the initial moisture/condensation (from flooding) may lead to excessive wear on the seals, making them more brittle and suspectible to premature deterioration. This is what I recall from a post a year ago.

no oil would be injected as always... when the motor runs oil is injected....

brittle is not an issue.. seal on not seal... the cars that flood. burn cats...

?s pm me.

beers :beer:

er . uh . I think demob05 is refering to the washing-away of the oil film in there. The gas washes it out and obviously, that's not a good thing. I thnik the TSB says to suck some oil into the intake manifold (good old Engine Cranks No Start bulletin 01-004/05, sheets 8-10, "Repair Procedure B", steps 1-9) ( http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf ).

The apex seal is not made from a material that would be affected by direct exposure to gasoline - it's a kind of metalic substance, I think, in that, there is no change to their physical characteristics (ie: getting brittle, like some type of elastomer?) after being immersed in gasoline. The only other thing I'm thinking is that the elevated heat of the seal, generated by increased friction, might cause a metalurgical change. I can't answer that one, though it sounds like a far stretch to me.

my 8 had same prolem got it started by dechocking as per manuel now have engine lite on will it reboot or is a trip to mazda in my future car just had 15k checkup plugs replaced and newest flash can anybody tell me if the light will go out by it self or not did anybody else have this problem

If the engine flooded, the light may be due to a failed catalytic converter resulting indirectly from the flooding. Only way to know is to read the DTC (trouble code) associated with the check engine light. Take it to a dealer or to an auto parts store that has a CAN bus-compatible OBDII scanner. That's the best way to determine if the check engine light is for a transient or a permanent problem.

i flooded my engine, i have an 04 with 35k miles, will getting that repaired be covered by warranty?

The generic answer is YES. However, if you run into a hard nosed dealer, go elsewhere. The "fix" should include a new starter, spark plugs and probably a new battery. And they should check the cat converter. There is a service bulletin that deals with this problem so the dealer should take care of it according to the bulletin.

The afformentioned Bulletin is hyperlinked in my post dated 10-9-06 above (post #1376).

Oh heck, here it is again... http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf

Mine just "flooded" for the second time. The reason for the quotes is that I just had it in for the engine recall and an oil change and when I got it back it smoked but i thought that they had just spilled some oil when they changed it. It also seemed to start hard. I drove it for 45 min and it still smoked at the end of the trip - not good. It started hard the next time I started it but I was busy so i did my errend and parked it for a day. The next time I went to start it it didn't. I looked under the car and there was used oil dripping off the frame. I checked the oil level and it was at about 1/4 full. Then to top it off - the pain in the ass, not the oil, Mazda roadside didn't show up and it turns out that they never dispatched a call. GRrrrrrr

Man, I don't know if this recall is a good thing. Seems like a whole lot of people are experiencing MAJOR engine problems AFTER they get their car back from the recall service. I'm scared to take mine in now...

Hey Racer, I gave up a while ago reading the thousands of posts concerning this. Can you point me in the direction of some of the horror stories? I just looked at the Recall Complete thread and most of those seemed to do OK.

Ya, the main recall thread is http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=97039&page=134&pp=15

I've been TRYING to keep up with it. There seems to me to be quite a few who take it in healthy and have to return it later with a now-bad engine,,, and other bad stuff...

Yes its also part of the recall. Not giving your car atleast 2 to 3 mins to before driving will allow build up of carbon deposits on your spark plugs and take a major affect to gas mileage and hp. Give you car about 2 mins then rev to 8rpm then go, upon turning off allow 2 to 3 mins at idle then cut off.

If you follow this you shouldn't have any problems with flooding but if you do have problems with start up call mazda it's their responsibility to fix it due to recall 4206F.

Yes its also part of the recall. Not giving your car atleast 2 to 3 mins to before driving will allow build up of carbon deposits on your spark plugs and take a major affect to gas mileage and hp. Give you car about 2 mins then rev to 8rpm then go, upon turning off allow 2 to 3 mins at idle then cut off.

If you follow this you shouldn't have any problems with flooding but if you do have problems with start up call mazda it's their responsibility to fix it due to recall 4206F.

did you read your post.. i hope not... if so you have no idea what you are talking about...

beers :beer:

Yes its also part of the recall. Not giving your car atleast 2 to 3 mins to before driving will allow build up of carbon deposits on your spark plugs and take a major affect to gas mileage and hp. Give you car about 2 mins then rev to 8rpm then go, upon turning off allow 2 to 3 mins at idle then cut off.

If you follow this you shouldn't have any problems with flooding but if you do have problems with start up call mazda it's their responsibility to fix it due to recall 4206F.

I hear that it will give you bad breath too. Not Good! :Eyecrazy:

Well, you can add me to the list. '04 with ~33,000 miles....never flooded...got the recall done a couple weeks ago, and I went to run some errands tonight, and it just keeps turning over again and again. It sounds kind of funky though when it is turning over...weird. I wonder if this has something to do with the recall? I don't drive it often, only once since getting the recall done. UGH!!

that sounds very bad to me...

Well, I did the flooded engine procedure, and it took FOREVER...but finally started up. So I went for a drive to try to clear it out. I'm afraid of what this may have done to my engine...but since it seems to happen to about everyone...whatever it did to mine...it has done to others as well. I'm nervous aobut this though!

I hope it'll be fine now. I should make this disclaimer: I've never flooded mine, so I don't know how one sounds when it's flooded. Having said that, why would a flooded engine sound kind of funky? Too many people come away from this recall with major new problems, IMHO.

Funky was the only word that I could think of. It almost sounded like the starter wasn't grabbing all the way or something? It just sounded real rough. I thought I was one of the lucky ones that would never have it flood. Heck, the last time I drove it....it was for at least 45 minutes!
It probably didn't do anything, but I'm worried that this did something bad to my engine.....my worry was that it was spinning without enough oil in it or something while it was turning over and over and over....geesh....now I feel for everyone that has had this happen now that I have to do it!

my flooding got me a new cat under the recall ...

I should probably get mine into the shop to have it checked out, huh?

Yep same here for me....I did the recall, reflash, and maybe 2 weeks after the recall I park my car in the garage for the winter and last weekend I wanted to move the car to wash and shine and try to start and the starter only crank the engine but no start not even want to :( So I called a friend of mine and told me two thing maybe it is flooded or the spark plug need to be changed (only have 24000 miles :confused: ).

So I had to remove the spark plug; crank the engine; put the spark plug in; crank the engine (took forever) and it finally started with a huge smoke in garage that I needed to get out

Go have them check, and they should replace whatever you need (new starter, maybe battery, leading plugs)

but I suggest you to try to push start your car next time, its more efficient than the deflood crap. and usually you can start your car faster.

Man, I was tempted to push start it since my driveway grades down fomr the garage, but then I figured I'd be stuck in the middle of the street looking real smooth with a nice car that won't turn on. It did take probably close to a half hour to get it to finally turn on and stay on. TONS of smoke in the garage (my wife was real happy to smell my car while she was in the kitchen!)
I'll schedule an appointment. I wonder if it'll start for me the next time I want to drive it?!

Me too I'm afraid it won't start but I'm gonna give a try this weekend :uhh:

Holy crap a lot of people have flooded AFTER the engine recall. I've posted about this in other threads. I drove mine for 45 min and tried to start it 2 days later. I couldn't get it started.

Those of you who have got it started again - Can you explain how long forever is. I've tried it until the battery was dead, charged it and tried it again with no luck. While you are trying is there any sign of it catching because mine just cranks and cranks like it will never run again.

^^ when mine got to that point i called roadside and had it towed. i was told all that trying is what prolly fried my cat.

I keep thinking of selling it these days. At this point I never expect it to start and am thankful every time it does. Not what you want in a car you bought new!

I just had my battery replaced about 2 months ago, so it was nice and fresh…I bet I was cranking for at least 20 minutes….I never had it feel like it wanted to start when I had my foot pushing the gas pedal down. The only time it felt like it wanted to grab was when I was only pushing the clutch…no gas.
After a really long time, it would (I think) fire once….and then keep cranking…..then fire once…keep cranking. The problem I had was that I didn't want to kill my starter, so when it would try to actually turn on, I'd stop trying to crank the starter. That probably flooded it all over again (I figure). So finally, the only way that I could get it to start was to keep it cranking until I could get the engine to rev up a little bit. That's when I put it in gear, kept the RPM's up so it wouldn't stall…and went for a drive. I'm really afraid to see if it starts next time. What the heck are they doing in this recall test that could cause this? I've had it two years…..30,000+ miles…and have never even came close to flooding.

Thanks for the info. My guess is that it is the new PCM programming. Mine takes several seconds to catch now and then it just kind of sputters to life. It does not instill confidence.

Those of you who have got it started again - Can you explain how long forever is. n.

Ok as far as forever is......when you removed the spark plug you crank your engine for about 10 sec. and after you put spark in their place and start the engine again; don't touch the accelerator and when you hear the engine want to rev quicker push the accelerator to the floor (not more than 15 or 20 sec). Stop and repeat until it start....let me tell you that when it start you'll have a lot of smoke around... :p:
Took me about 15 min to start the car after the spark plug were in there place...

Ok as far as forever is......when you removed the spark plug you crank your engine for about 10 sec. and after you put spark in their place and start the engine again; don't touch the accelerator and when you hear the engine want to rev quicker push the accelerator to the floor (not more than 15 or 20 sec). Stop and repeat until it start....let me tell you that when it start you'll have a lot of smoke around... :p:
Took me about 15 min to start the car after the spark plug were in there place...


why did you touch the accl to begin with??? no reason to... and the accl to the floor just kills the fuel...

beers :beer:

The manual does state to press to the floor if flooded.

Like Swoope says it cuts the fuel.

The manual does state to press to the floor if flooded.

Like Swoope says it cuts the fuel.

I know I tried what the manuel said before removing the spark plug...and nothing worked. But when I removed the plugs the trailing plug were soken wet..and the leading were dry and had carbon built up so I removed the carbon clean it and put them back...

For SALE: 1 2004 RX8 42000mi, new tires, recent flash, new starter, battery, plugs. Just don't try to drive in cold weather!!!!
Second flooding, car towed today to dealership. My advice..get a reliable v6.
Tired of the unreliability of this engine!
By the way, I follow all the tech bulletin recommendations for starting and stopping and this engine still gives me grief. ........just venting.

By the way, I follow all the tech bulletin recommendations for starting and stopping and this engine still gives me grief.

Bummer! Just curious, is your 8 and MT or AT (not that it should matter)?

AT with no aftermarket mods. Just seems like a lot of problems with this engine. Poor engineering or over egineered?

Well, you can add me to the list. '04 with ~33,000 miles....never flooded...got the recall done a couple weeks ago, and I went to run some errands tonight, and it just keeps turning over again and again. It sounds kind of funky though when it is turning over...weird. I wonder if this has something to do with the recall? I don't drive it often, only once since getting the recall done. UGH!!

2004 MT with 35K + miles (haven't got recall yet) - moved car out of garage to wash a couple weeks ago. Later in the day went to start and it immediately sounded much different than normal cranking. Maybe due to lack of compression or something - but definitely different. My battery was OEM and I knew it wouldn't last the winter - it's always sounded pretty weak. I tried the deflood procedure in the manual and reviewed many of the posts here but the battery was not cranking very fast and could not keep it up for more than 20 seconds. Used jumper cables from another car and it cranked faster but no luck. Started to hook up straps and getting ready to drag down the road but thought I would try once more. Just held the gas down and cranked for maybe 20 sec until I heard some slight "compression" type noises - let the gas off and cranked for almost a minute. Started slowly at first with lots of blue smoke and then finally ran. I immediately ran out and got a new battery and haven't had any issues since. Not that the battery was the problem but the slow turn on a cold start cycle may contribute to the flooding. Fortunately I was in my own driveway and wasn't time critical to do anything. I still need to make an appointment to get the recall done but sure hope that doesn't add to any future flooding issues.

I still need to make an appointment to get the recall done but sure hope that doesn't add to any future flooding issues.

When you take it in for the recall, tell them about what happened and ask to be upgraded to the new starter (under warranty). You already have a new battery (hopefully the one you bought is 640 CCA) and the recall will get you new plugs and the latest PCM update. Those are the 4 main things the "Engine cranks no start" TSB replaces.

If necessary, bring along a copy of the TSB and give it to them.

Does anyone know if the new electrical parts eliminate the flooding concern? I had the 'move to driveway, then back to garage, then wouldn't start next day' event when my car was new in 2004 and I have been worried about flooding again, so I always warm it up before turning off the engine. This is not always convenient and sometimes I end up pushing the car out of the garage for washing, without starting the engine. I also do the high rev thing when turning off the engine after short rides, say in a shopping center.

I've had the recall done, with new battery, plugs and starter and the engine does turn over faster but, is this a sure fix for flooding? I'm guessing, probably not.

Carrying around worry since 2004 is not a good thing. But you answered your own questions.

is this a sure fix for flooding? I'm guessing, probably not. always warm it up before turning off the engine also do the high rev thing when turning off the engine after short rides

The updates are more oriented to enable you to recover from a flood rather than eliminating flooding.

In answer to your question, I believe Mazda still recommends avoiding shutting the engine off cold. However since the introduction of the updated PCM firmware, battery, starter, plugs and PDI plug replacement, the reports of flooding on this forum have dropped off dramatically. There have been almost no reports of flooding in late-model 2005s/2006s and even older 8s that have had the TSB updates. People have posted a few times where they had the TSB updates and then had a repeat flood but this seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Regardless, I still avoid shutting the engine off cold if at all possible.

I think I experienced flooding for the first time. I have an 04 GS MT and after starting it in sub zero weather I couldn't get the car to rev beyond 3k. Every tie I depressed the accelerator nothing happened. When I got to my destination (about 8kms) I shut the car off. It restarted easily after 5 minutes and ran normally from then on. I think that must have been flooded now that I have read through this post.

Yes??

I think I experienced flooding for the first time. I have an 04 GS MT and after starting it in sub zero weather I couldn't get the car to rev beyond 3k. Every tie I depressed the accelerator nothing happened. When I got to my destination (about 8kms) I shut the car off. It restarted easily after 5 minutes and ran normally from then on. I think that must have been flooded now that I have read through this post.

Yes??

How long did you warm it up for?

Here the U.S. spec cars have a flash that prevents the car from reving very high when the car is cold in freezing temperatures.

Flooding prevents the car from starting. After it does start there is plenty of smoke that comes out the exhaust.

How long did you warm it up for?

Here the U.S. spec cars have a flash that prevents the car from reving very high when the car is cold in freezing temperatures.

Flooding prevents the car from starting. After it does start there is plenty of smoke that comes out the exhaust.

I had the same thought on this since the Techs at my dealer asked if I was having subfreezing temp related problems. They explained the same thing to me, stating that the car will NOT rev until it has run for a minute or two.

I do a complete warm-up on every cold start or first start of the day and (knock on wood) have not flooded the car.

I would never do a cold-driveaway in any sports car, just not good.

OK It warmed up for about 3 minutes. Started fine. It has always started fine. I wonder if it was the flash preventing it from over revving?
How long do you warm it up?
Thanks for the response

It depends on how cold it is.

I normally wait to drive (hot or cold climate) till the idle gets just under 1500 RPMs.

Then, while driving, I keep the RPMs under 3k till a few minutes after the water temp gets to its normal position.

Thanks for the info, I'll try to pay closer attention to the revs before I move off.

I am done with this car. Waiting on a tow as I type for the second time since ownership. This time I drove home Friday, parked it in the garage and Monday morning flooded. No shutting down a cold engine as I drove it home from work Friday. It is an 04 with a mere 23K miles on it. No way this should happen. Insert namecalling here but there is no excuse for this. Car shopping commences now. Anyone want a RX8 with very low miles?

How can you tell if it's a flooded condition as opposed to, say, no fuel delivery or no spark? I'm assuming you can tell.

It was flooded again. They replaced the starter as well but did say the plugs needed to be replaced due to flooding. This was not a case of a cold shutdown so i am stumped and annoyed at this car.

It was flooded again. They replaced the starter as well but did say the plugs needed to be replaced due to flooding. This was not a case of a cold shutdown so i am stumped and annoyed at this car.

well then be done with the car... somehow i have managed to put 61k miles on mine.. never a flood, and i have the old starter and battery...

have shut it down cold often... and many times before the rev engine trick came out..

location or bad karma? sorry, it sucks to deal with it... :)

i hope the starter and plugs work for you..

beers :beer:

Yeah, I'm an '04 who's never flooded either. But that new starter and battery combo really does rock, it cranks so much aggresively now, faster, more energy. Swoope, you ought to try to get them next time you feel like taking it in. No biggie if you don't though I guess, but I sure like the improvement. Before I got them, it started ok, but it was making me wonder.

Yeah, I'm an '04 who's never flooded either. But that new starter and battery combo really does rock, it cranks so much aggresively now, faster, more energy. Swoope, you ought to try to get them next time you feel like taking it in. No biggie if you don't though I guess, but I sure like the improvement. Before I got them, it started ok, but it was making me wonder.


i dont bug them for stuff that is not an issue..

but i got the new motor. without testing... motor mounts and a bunch of other stuff...

the last flash with the longer crank before fuel or spark i think is going to help a lot..

beers :beer:

I'm a new RX8 owner (bought a used 04 in October 2006), and I had my 1st episode of flooding today. I really didn't know that it was that much of a problem with the 8. I guess it happened because I started up the car yesterday in the garage, backed it out so that I could wash her, then after washing....started it back up and pulled it back in. Getting in this morning before work and that sombitch won't start. Had it towed to the dealership, as I drove my wife's dependable 4Runner.

I guess I'll have to warm it up a little more next time.

It just sucks arse to have a extremely clean Brilliant Black being towed like a chump to the dealership.

started it back up and pulled it back in. Getting in this morning before work and that sombitch won't start.

Classic flood ... still sucks though!

Make sure you get the updated PCM firmware, battery, starter and plugs. You earned it!

They did update the PCM, however they didn't replace anything else. Works like a charm now.

They did update the PCM, however they didn't replace anything else. Works like a charm now.

Can't see how they could do a de-flood "by the book" without replacing the plugs, but I am not a mazda tech.

I would suggest reading http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf and make your own decision on following up about the starter and battery. If your 2004 had already been upgraded they you wouldn't need it, but then it shouldn't have flooded either.

I worked at a place for almost 2 years that I had to move the car out evening so we could close off the parking lot. I very rarely gave it time to warm up any. Even in winter. I have never had the first problem with starting. I geuss I have been a lucky one.

If you want to read about some hard core, dedicated owners with POS cars, research Mini Cooper owners. People driving for hours to get to a dealer for service because of problems with the car happens often. And then say they wouldn't give it up for anything. It will make you go out and kiss your 8.

i've just flooded my rx8 last night, its a 2004 I had it for 3 months. I just dint crank it long enoght and when try to re start it just wont start. dont know what to do now, does anyone nows what to do when it happens besides taking it to the dealer or how much does it cost to get fixt?

i've just flooded my rx8 last night, its a 2004 I had it for 3 months. I just dint crank it long enoght and when try to re start it just wont start. dont know what to do now, does anyone nows what to do when it happens besides taking it to the dealer or how much does it cost to get fixt?

You can read the service bulletin http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf for the tech details on how to deflood an RX-8. However, if you car is under 50K miles the dealer should do this for free including the tow to the dealership.

If you are over 50K miles, it is unclear if the recent drivetrain warranty extension for RX-8s also covers flooding, but my take is that it never hurts to ask. Also if the dealer says no, then call the Mazda 800 number and see if they will authorize the work under warranty.

Good luck!

My 2005 finally flooded on the morning of Jan 2. Happy New Year to me! I have 63,000 miles on it. I'm out of warranty.

Had it towed to Mazda, they did the work outlined in the TSB (Starter, battery, ignition wires and coils). No sparks since I changed them out last summer myself.

Couldn't get Mazda USA to authorize the repair at their cost, so it ended up coming out of my pocket.

Ramsey Mazda did the repair. They were nice about it and gave me a 10% discount on parts and labor and they picked up the cost of my car rental. But it was still out of pocket for me. I had front brakes done as well (63,000 on the originals!). Total cost including tax: $ 1347

My recommendation: If you haven't flooded the car and are still in warranty and don't have the upgraded components yet then flood your car on purpose so you get the work done under warranty.

This really should have been a recall not a TSB.

Gentlemen,

My 8 did not start on a cold morning so I quickly replaced the battery with an optima battery since it has like 700 plus cranking amps. It still did not work and as a matter of fact I actually flooded it. So I went to the engine bay and pulled out the fuel pump fuse and crank the motor for a minute to burn the excess fuel without dumping more. Then I waited for about 2 hours and then went back to it and the car immediately cranked over.

I went to mazda of olympia and they told me if you told the dealership that you had problems with starting your car that Mazda will routinely replace your plugs, battery, and upgrade your starter, which they did minus the battery cause I already had an optima. Since then, it cranks over really really easy. I recommend everyone gets this done ASAP...you will notice a big difference.

Mazda will routinely replace your plugs, battery, and upgrade your starter
yea, that's the TSB everyone has been talking about

I guess its time to join the flood club. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/SoonerRoadie/Photo_011607_001.jpg

haha people were questioning if its even an issue, when i bought mine, the dealer prompted me on the whole issue...

yeah it kinda sucks in the cold when you have to move your car for someone else in the driveway but oh well. gotta sacrifice somethin to experience the pleasure that is rotary

just listen to 2 of ur favorite songs.

i've had mine for about 7 months and still never turned it off cold, i know the first time i forget it's gonna get me

Hey guys has anyone experienced flooding in the new 07 models because my sister just bought one and I don't know if itss gonna flood on her , it would suck if it did

Hey guys has anyone experienced flooding in the new 07 models because my sister just bought one and I don't know if itss gonna flood on her , it would suck if it did

Like the 06 Models, the 07s have all the latest anti-flood and flood-recovery improvements. However, I would check the Mazda "quick tips" guide that came with her car. If they still recommend against avoiding short trips (ie cutting the engine off cold) I would still suggest your sister make an effort to avoid cold shutdowns.

It was a chilly Saturday afternoon....I guess it was the coldest that I had planned to wash the RX-8 since I have had it. I backed it out of the garage into the drive way and cut it off. I washed, dried and dressed the tires, etc. as I normally do. Usually I put it right back in the garage when I'm finished but this time I left it out for a few hours. I cleaned up and got dressed to go to the mall for a few. When I tried to start it....it would not start and then the battery went dead. I have one one new portable charger units so I tried that but it still would not start. The next morning I went and got another battery but still the same results. So I went to the dealership on Monday morning...told them what had happend. They told me to call Mazda roadservice which I did but they said they didn't have my car listed...what a morning. :crazy: Anyway I told the dealership to pick up the car. They called me at work later to say that they had made some adjustments with the computer but they would be checking the engine until the next day. Around nine the next morning they called to say the car was ready...it was flooded which I already knew. They also told me that I needed a battery because the one I had from AutoZone was not right for the car. I told them to go ahead. They also told me when I got there that they put another starter in too. And the great thing is they didn't charge me for the battery, the tow or the starter. It has not started good since they did the recall so I'm not sure why I needed a starter but it does start like it used to now. I still don't know what to say or feel about not being able to move the car with it having to warm up. It already uses enough gas and now this..... My RX8 has been in the shop more then any other car that I have owned. Its been in the shop so much that I have become friends with the shuttle driver at the dealership. When he sees me the first thing he says is...whats wrong with it now.....

Don't blame your car. It has a rotary engine, you know. Rotary engines flood when you turn them off cold. If you hear different, don't believe it - they DO. Somebody should have told you that before you even bought it. Blame them.

The improved starter and battery will help, but don't think you can now shut it down cold. DON'T! That's just a bit of friendly advice. Now, if that's too hard to swallow, you really need to trade it in on a piston popper.

Like the 06 Models, the 07s have all the latest anti-flood and flood-recovery improvements...

dont know about the US models but my opinion is if the car uses stock spark plugs, then it will flood sometime. I never flooded my 8, because I realized that the stock spark plugs can't cope...
I have a '04 model 3 years now and never had an issue since I used aftermarket iridium plugs... greddy, denso whatever...

Blame? I would not say I'm blaming the car or the engine. All I know is that this car has been in the shop more in the last two years I have had it then anything else I have owned. And I purchased it new. I thought that my Jeep Grand had issues...

This flooding never happened when I had a 1988 RX-7 turbo. Never. I had it over six years.

Please don't take it that I don't love the car because I do but I don't love being at the dealearship every other month for something. I don't think thats cool for the money that I paid for it or for us being in the year 2007. Its hard to believe that a later model car would have more problems then a earlier model....where is the advancement. Is it just in the body and not the engine?

:Eyecrazy:

I know what I was told way back in '03 when I asked... http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=6160
I never shut mine down cold and I never flooded.

I am just like you about how much mine has been back for work, but I have yet to spend a dime on any of it. It's been all routine maintenance and recalls. With my free routine maintenance, it's all been $0.00. Everything. My car has all the updates, free of charge. A 3-1/2 year old car with just about all the newness of a brand new car. For free. Find another car that will do that for you.

My car has never ever performed below the level of outstanding.

I really do feel badly for those whose car has let them down. I don't know and I really don't understand why and I'm not going to say that it's due to the owner. I just hope that my honeymoon with mine will never end.

My 8 wouldn't start about three months ago. had it towed into dealer, they said it was flooded!?!?

I knew I didn't turn it off cold, but I thought maybe my son may have started it (without permission).

.
The other day it happened again, I came back from a 60 mile trip, parked the car, went in for the night, next morning - no start. Had it towed, dealer says it is flooded and Mazda won't cover it under warranty since I flooded it like two months ago. I tell the jerk at the dealership that the flooding is happening with a thoroughly warmed up engine. Dealership still won't cover it under warranty. I called Mazda and they covered it as a courtesy.


I asked Mazda if there are any competent dealerships in my area and I was told to go to St. Pete, Florida (a 75 mile drive). I took it there today so we'll see if they can figure it out. Btw, I've had a cel for about the past year and the morons at the last two dealerships cannot seem to figure it out (an ecu reset clears it for 1 to 3 days). Hopefully the st. pete dealer can....
Currently, my car is deemed unreliable, I won't let my wife use it because she may get stranded and I don't want to use it because I may get stranded.... Luckily I have motorcycles to get me around.

Has anyone else experienced flooding the 8 without shutting it off cold previously? I use 90~93 octane, have the car serviced regularly and am into "spirited" driving. The car has 47K and was pretty decent 'reliability wise' until recently.

where are you in fla... what dealership are you dealing with.. if they cant figure out a cel.

well enough said..

also what ecu flash are you on, and have you had the last reacall done???

if you dont know you can call mazda and ask them, they would have records...

i have 65k miles on mine, with the old slow starter, and have never managed to flood it... and i do turn my car off cold...

beers :beer:

My 8 wouldn't start about three months ago. had it towed into dealer, they said it was flooded!?!?

I knew I didn't turn it off cold, but I thought maybe my son may have started it (without permission).

.
The other day it happened again, I came back from a 60 mile trip, parked the car, went in for the night, next morning - no start. Had it towed, dealer says it is flooded and Mazda won't cover it under warranty since I flooded it like two months ago. I tell the jerk at the dealership that the flooding is happening with a thoroughly warmed up engine. Dealership still won't cover it under warranty. I called Mazda and they covered it as a courtesy.


I asked Mazda if there are any competent dealerships in my area and I was told to go to St. Pete, Florida (a 75 mile drive). I took it there today so we'll see if they can figure it out. Btw, I've had a cel for about the past year and the morons at the last two dealerships cannot seem to figure it out (an ecu reset clears it for 1 to 3 days). Hopefully the st. pete dealer can....
Currently, my car is deemed unreliable, I won't let my wife use it because she may get stranded and I don't want to use it because I may get stranded.... Luckily I have motorcycles to get me around.

Has anyone else experienced flooding the 8 without shutting it off cold previously? I use 90~93 octane, have the car serviced regularly and am into "spirited" driving. The car has 47K and was pretty decent 'reliability wise' until recently.

Palm Mazda in Punta Gorda and Ed Howard Mazda in Sarasota are the two dealerships that just couldn't seem to get my 8 right.

I first got a cel back in late 2003. Palm Mazda tried to fix it three times and failed. I took it to Ed Howard and was looking to lemon law it if they couldn't solve it, it turned out to be the sensor for the gas cap.
I used Ed Howard for service after that. In late 2005 or early 2006 I started getting a cel that was always 'fixed' by resetting the ecu - within a few days it would come back on. In that time I had Ed Howard put my rear tires on backwards, and not readily admit that they did (service rep "I don't know how that could happen, are you sure you didn't change tires afterwards?"), which totally pissed me off. They did swap 'em after I drove the car back, an 80+ mile round trip. When my tranny felt crunchy (5th gear synchro), Ed Howard rebuilt it, but didn't tighten a crush washer so I had a leak. Again, I returned to them to have them fix that mistake.

Fed up, I figured I'd try Palm Mazda again, it has been three years and maybe they got better... No such luck, they didn't solve my cell and they are the ones who wanted to charge me for flooding the car.

I love the car, but the techs suck, they remind me of Windows only IT people, they have 2/3's of a clue. Enough to seem like they know what they are doing until a real problem comes up.

Oyyyyy

post your issue in the se forum or you might have some luck on flrx8club.net...

i would pull the code for you and try to help. but i will not be in the naples area again till mid march...

beers :beer:

Thanks Swoope, what equipment does someone need to pull codes from the ecu?
I should be hearing from St. Pete's Mazda dealer by tomorrow. I'll post the results soon.

A

Again, my 2004 RX-8 is in the shop the same place where it was just two weeks ago. Cook Mazda of Aberdeen, MD performed some sort of recall and that is really when the problems started. They say that I am flooding it when all I do is turn the key. This should not be happening. The dealership acts like I am an inconvenience to them. They have not even called me to give me a prognosis or offer a rental car....the car is still under warranty. As soon as I get it back I will drive straight to the Toyota dealership. No more Mazdas for me!

:mad:

Tyrone square Mazda of St. Pete Florida has diagnosed my cel problem. The gas cap and pump needed replacement. They don't think my tranny feels bad, they are putting in synthetic tranny fluid per my request. The flooding issue is not resolved. The tech suggested that I rev it to 4~6k and shut it off while the rpms are high, to make sure all gas is forced out of the engine. The car passed all diagnostics and in the techs opinion, is mechanically sound - I'll try his suggestion, I've had two no starts that were diagnosed as flooding in the 3.3 years I've owned the car. Overall the car has been pretty good to me and I really do enjoy driving it - I love the feel of the RX8 enough to overlook some of its quirks.

Has anyone else experienced flooding the 8 without shutting it off cold previously? I use 90~93 octane, have the car serviced regularly and am into "spirited" driving. The car has 47K and was pretty decent 'reliability wise' until recently.Nope, not me. It's only been one year (8,700 miles), but my '05 always fires right up—strongly—every time. (Needless to say, I never shut if off cold. When I bought the car I thought it might be a problem remembering to NOT do this, but for some reason it hasn't been. Maybe it's just me, but somehow I ALWAYS remember to not shut it off cold. Just like I remember to look both ways before crossing the street. In fact, just a few weeks after buying the car I was remembering to not shut if off cold without even thinking about it.)

So for me, anyway, there's no difference between starting the 8 and an ordinary car. Different engine design, (slightly) different starting procedure—seems reasonable to me. If I had an electric, steam or hydrogen car I imagine I'd have to do some things differently, too.

Good luck—hope your flooding episodes are all behind you.

My car wont start, it turned over ran for a sec and then the rpm's dropped and it stalled this is all within a second or so i never put it into gear or touched the gas pettal. Now when i crank it no combustion. Any ideas? I didnt start it for 2 days and its below freezing, should i wait till its above 32F?

Thanks for you help

Try the de-flooding procedure in your owners manual. If that doesn't work after several tries, call Mazda Roadside Service and have it towed to a dealer.

Ok, I'm sorry if this has already been answered but I've already checked the last four pages and some people's profiles.

But my question is, has a 2006 Rx-8 flooded with stock plugs?

Not that great with stick-shift, just a little worried.

Don't blame your car. It has a rotary engine, you know. Rotary engines flood when you turn them off cold. If you hear different, don't believe it - they DO.



Not true! A properly driven and maintained rotary wont flood.

Example: My 94 Fd rx7 has over 100k on it's original engine. I attemped to intentionaly try to flood my car one cold after noon last year. I started it cold in 40degree weather, let it run for 5sec then shut it off. I did this 5 times and it started every time. All this happened after my car sat up for a full month without being driven. If you understand how these engine operate and know how to maintaine them, they wont flood.

Flooding is a direct result of weak spark due to plug fouling, and weak compression due to sticking seals from all the carbon build-up from granny driving. It also doesn't help that the Renesis side seal to corner seal clearence is so wide when compared to the older Rx7 Rotary's. The extra clearence for the side seal expansion due to the side exhaust weakens the engines start-up compression from the get go.

Thanks for sharing. ;)

I really really like FD's and appreciate hearing from owners of FD's.

I like to believe what you have stated, that a healthy rotary won't flood, but some pretty big rotorheads have stated otherwise in this thread > http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=6160&page=1&pp=15

The new battery and plugs for the 8 are a MUST in my book.

How does a person convince his or herself that he or she is NOT properly driving and / or maintaining their 8, to the point where they must now obey the "never shut down cold" rule? Know what I'm asking? If a properly driven and maintained rotary won't flood, then it stands to reason that the opposite is true. Similar to AA, the poor drivers and maintainers must then somehow stand and declare their misgivings, and never shut down cold as a result. How's that going to happen?

Nah, best we stick to the good ole "never shut down cold" rule. Those who choose to disregard the rule - and then flood it - can then at least be told they were warned - that it's just one of those things that you must at least do knowingly - shutting it down cold, that is.

We have 98 pages of stuff here, and a whole lot of floodings have one thing in common - they happened after shutting it down cold. (I don't need to be reminded that there ARE evidently some exceptions, so please don't! I'm talking about a whole lot, nobody ever said ALL.)

I really really like FD's and appreciate hearing from owners of FD's. ;)

My original vote still stands...I have never flooded my car. I've always thought it would be inconvenient to do so -- so I never shut it down cold. I drive the piss out of the car and maintain it to the best of my ability, so I might get away with it...but why invite the problem?

My dealer *did* flood it. They 'fixed' the problem by installing a new starter. They would have replaced the battery, but they wisely noted that I already had (with a nice Bosch unit.)

A wise man once said, "never put it away wet." (I think he was referring to ropes and other nautical items.) But in this case, I'm applying it to spark plugs although it fits for so many situations.

Thanks for sharing. ;)
I like to believe what you have stated, that a healthy rotary won't flood, but some pretty big rotorheads have stated otherwise in this thread > http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...60&page=1&pp=15




My extensive ownership experience speaks otherwise. Maybe I should have disclosed more of my background. Though you may not know from my post count, I'm one of the more experience rotor heads hear. I've owned and driven rotary powered vehicles since 1991.

81 GSL carburated Rx7
84 GSL carburated Rx7
91 NA convertible Rx7
94 Rx7 twin turbo

Before I understood these engines and how to maintain them, I would flood the 81 model on a regular bases. Push starting was how I got it running as there was no holding the throttle to cut the fuel. This car had poor maintenance and was granny driven all the time. By granny driven I mean it was shifted at 3,000 rpm's all the time. It had zero carbon cleanings and 142k miles. I bought the 81 back in 1991.

After I lost the 81 to over heating, I bought the 84 in 1995. I took care of this car a little better than the older one. I changed the plugs and fuel filter more often but had zero carbon cleanings. I still granny drove the car but changing the plugs helped as this one never flooded. In 1999 I bought the 91 vert. Now since I had 2 rx7's to drive, I didn't drive the 84 that much. Not good as the lack of driving allowed for the carbon that built up in the 84 engine to take on more of a powdery/flaky form. After letting that car sit up for a month, it carbon locked on start up in 2000. I can show you pics of all the carbon when I pulled that engine apart. RIP at 150k miles

My 91 vert had excellent maintenance. I changed the plugs and filter once a year or 12k religiously. I used distilled/filtered water for the cooling system. I thought I had the maintenance down pack by now as it never flooded. I was wrong. It flooded once back in 2002 "2yrs after I bought it". I had started the car cold and moved it a short distance in preparation to change out the steering rack when it happened. Holding the throttle wouldn't help so I resorted to my old school method....the push start with another vehicle. This method worked every time because it got the engine spinning over fast enough so the plugs would ignite all the excess fuel. The engine had no choice but to run when done this way. After I got it running, I wondered why now after all this time? I've done everything that should keep carbon out of the engine. At this time I still didn't think my granny driving was the problem.


In January of 2003 I finally got my baby, the Fd. :rock: It had 65k on it's original engine. I promised myself the maintenance would be flawless. I had already been apart of the Rx7 club forum. Talk about a huge help as getting this car got me more involved in posting. I thought I knew everything about rotary's. Boy was I wrong. It didn't take me long to educate myself though. I added a downpipe and modded the stock air box. It almost over boosted with these little mods until I added a boost controller.

The maintenance of the Fd was virtually the same as the 91 vert however, I did discovered on the rx7 forum how bad granny driving was for these engines and how it accelerated the carbon build-up process. That's when I looked back at the time when my 91 vert flooded and thought ahhhhh. I had done everything right maintenance wise except for the way I drove the car. I immediately started doing my research on anything carbon cleaning related. I read running the engine hard from time to time helped more than anything. I then started to research my fd driving habits. My fd was granny driven all the time however, I also has moments for red lining from time to time. Seriously, it's really hard not to run the fd's engine though it's entire rpm range.

I granny drove my fd so much that when I got on it, I could see black smoke exit the tale pipe. Damn I thought...carbon sure builds up fast! Not really. That was nothing more than cheap 7-11 gas. I changed over to Texaco w/techron and noticed improvements in the color "which was more grayish".

Later on I started to find post about the water steam cleaning method. I began to implement this in my regular maintenance. 2 quarts per rotor was what I did twice a year. This method also cleaned out my exhaust which helps the o2 sensor stay clean. I then spoke to one guy who's father had used engine flush in his rotary religiously. I began to do the same thing. I really couldn't tell if this worked or not but I kept doing it every oil change.

This all brings me up to the point in my previous post explaining when I intentionally tried to flood my Fd. I strongly believe all the maintenance I've done coupled with all my ownership experience has actually worked. The water cleanings, the occasional redlining, changing the plugs so often, the fuel filter, and even the engine flush. Good luck trying to flood it. Not gonna happen "even with over 100k on the clock". I actually have even more proof that this style of maintenance works as recently, I've actually finally blown that engine due to over boosting. Long story!

Anyways I blew the engine on the freeway and was still able to drive the car to my apartment on one rotor. When I got to my apartment, I then confirmed that the engine was blown. I called my pops and told him the bad news. He asked how was I gonna get it over to his house as I didn't want it sitting at my complex undrivable. I told him I would start the car and drive it over. I went to turn the ignition, gave a little gas. It struggled a little bit but it fired up. I then drove the car the 10 miles to my parents house were it sits right now waiting for me to install my 20b. This happened back in November.

This is the #1 reason I believe my maintenance worked as I was still able to start and drive my car on 1 rotor even with over 108,000 miles on the original engine not to mention me trying to intentionally flood the engine last year. You have to have very strong compression and good spark for this to even be a possibility. Hell I wouldn't doubt that if I put a battery on it right now that it might still start after 3 months on one rotor.



I hope this really long RG style post makes some since to some of you. I stand by my believe that a properly driven and maintained rotary wont flood.

Peace!

Good post, thanks, really. Now's a good time to explain the steam cleaning method, if you would. I know that searching would probably work, but, we're all pretty lazy. :D:

The carbon build-up thing is very true - my chief RX-8 mechanic told me that he has replaced more engines due to granny driving than all other reasons combined!

As for me, 3000 rpm is where I DOWNshift hehe. Really! That's lugging it!

Not true! A properly driven and maintained rotary wont flood.

This is not true! I am not a rotor head, but I bought my 8 in Nov. 03. In December it flooded and would not start. My fault - I shut it off cold. I faithfully maintain the car, but it has flooded once every winter since, for a total of four tows to the shop. The first time was me, last year was the starter (replaced under warranty) but the other two times the car started with a high idle and when it kicked down (by itself - I never touched the gas) the car cut out and would not start. It's a little frustrating, but I still love the car!

I had read in here that push starting will start it when it floods. What's the difference between the starter turning over the engine and push starting?

This is not true! I am not a rotor head, but I bought my 8 in Nov. 03. In December it flooded and would not start.


This is easily explained! Yes it is true however, your situation (and most others who bought the early Rx8's) is also complicated a little more due to the fact your Rx8 having really bad tuning from the factory. The 1st 8's brought over had too much fuel being dumped in the engine. The positives, this additional fuel keeps the catalytic converter from running too hot, which could cause it to prematurely fail. The negatives, too much fuel fouls the plugs prematurely which makes it harder for the plugs to ignite the excess fuel being dumped in. This is also further complicated in the cold as the ecu is programmed to dump in extra fuel. Mazda has since had better programming in the later cars. Did you know that extensive amounts of idling fouls your plugs faster than anything else? How about letting the car warm up before you drive it? Not good! All these things lead to potential flooding. I'm not saying this is what you do you your car, just trying to educate you.

My fault - I shut it off cold. I faithfully maintain the car,

I do also! How do you maintain your 8? Please explain! Just remember my previous comments about my 91 vert. Maintenance is key but, how you run the engine will make the most difference. Bottom line what have you personally done to keep carbon out of your engine?


I had read in here that push starting will start it when it floods. What's the difference between the starter turning over the engine and push starting?


The much higher rpm's that can be generated. The starter can only rotate the engine over so fast (250rpm's) on a full charge. When the vehicle is push started, now your talking about 1,000+ rpm's in 1st gear. The faster rotation of the engine helps builds more compression and pressure inside the combustion chamber to help ignite the excess fuel.

Most people don't understand that spark plugs are mostly designed to ignite fuel vapor, not fuel in it's liquid form. When a rotary floods there's too much fuel in the combustion chamber (liquid fuel). This accompanied by too little compression (sticking seals from excessive carbon build-up) makes it damn near impossible to start at low rpm's. You need the higher rpm's and the pressure generated in the combustion chamber from those higher rpm's, to help the fuel to vaporize (which causes the bigger explosion). Get it? Keep in mind push starting only works with manuels.

Good post, thanks, really. Now's a good time to explain the steam cleaning method, if you would. I know that searching would probably work, but, we're all pretty lazy. :D:


It's simple! Hook a 4' long vacuum hose to the vacuum nippes shown in the pic.
This pic is of an auto 4 port Renesis. It's the two nipples in the lower intake manifold just above the exhaust header.
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95005

The one in the back goes to the rear rotor and the other the front rotor. Do one nippe at a time. You'll need help doing this. Have someone else hold the engine rpm's at 3k, then submerge the vacuum line in a quart or two of water. The engine vacuum will suck it down. Make sure the person applying throttle doesn't let the engine die as it will be difficult to start with water vapor in the combustion chamber. You will then see a ton of white smoke exit the engine (which is why you should do this out in the country somewhere so you don't scare your neighbors) LOL. This process will steam clean the internals of your engine and exhaust. Repeat the process for the other rotor. After you are done keep the rpm's at 3k for another minuet to make sure all water vapor has cleared. I do this process twice a year. Some of the Rx7 guys with boost/vacuum gauges have noticed an increase in engine vacuum after doing this process. The increase in vacuum inditates improved compression as a result of the internal seals freeing up from carbon sticking.

FYI I had a friend check my engine codes on my 91 vert with 152k on the chassis cause I had a check engine light. I told him I was curious to see if my orginal o2 sensor was bad. He said he couldn't find any codes for it meaning it was still working. Yep the water/steam cleaning really works.


The carbon build-up thing is very true - my chief RX-8 mechanic told me that he has replaced more engines due to granny driving than all other reasons combined!


Exactly! Excessive carbon build-up will kill any rotary faster than you believe. If people always did regular carbon cleanings, then granny driving would never be an issue.

As for me, 3000 rpm is where I DOWNshift hehe. Really! That's lugging it!


Then you shouldn't have any problems unless your ecu starts dumping in more fuel than can be combusted.

Sweet! :D: Thanks!!!

So, three questions; Do you do this at full operating temperature? And, do you let the engine suck the whole quart or two all in one continuous duration? And, what are these nipples normally doing?

Sweet! :D: Thanks!!!

So, three questions; Do you do this at full operating temperature? And, do you let the engine suck the whole quart or two all in one continuous duration? And, what are these nipples normally doing?



1. Yes make sure the engine is fully warmed up.

2. One continuous duration is what I've done and been told. Some people will also substitute carb cleaner for the water. In that case you need to do it in small intervals since the alcohol in the carb cleaner will raise the exhaust temps cause it burns hotter (so I've been told). I just use water.

3. Those nipples on the auto are just capped off. If you want to keep constant cabs on your engine vacuum, you can hook up a vacuum gauge to anyone of them. It's a great way for you to see if your loosing vacuum/compression inside your engine.

T-von
Thanks for the concise answers. You make a lot of sense.
My problem is that living in Northern VA you almost can't help but granny drive!! I have registered for the MDA Grand Course event in June - I'm looking forward to it and seeing what the 8 can do.
My maintenance schedule is basically 3K oil changes, plugs and filter every year and most of the rest of the Mazda recommended maintenance.
I'll have to give the steam clean a try. I had a neighbor years ago who was a jet mechanic at Andrews AFB. He used to pour a 1/2 cup of water down his carburetor every couple months and swore it was the secret to long engine life.
My car is out of warranty (62k miles), but would the steam cleaning be anything that would void the warranty on one still under warranty?

T-von, any need to be concerned about the temporary lubrication loss?

Jaycee,

I don't think it's a problem, I KNOW it's a problem. I normally don't have my new car towed unless there is a problem.

I had been starting mine and backing out of the garage the same way for 8 weeks before the fateful morning.

I hope it doesn't happen to you, but don't discount others having problems just because you haven't experienced it.


This is my case exactly. Car was running fine til recall, and never ran well since with sputtering idles, stuttering thru gears, increase vibration, then this morning, moved it out of the garage, went back later to move it back and it wouldnt start. I had a 69 Impala that I could flood, but I dont think a 30k dollar car should. I love this car and hate it at the same time.

My dad bought a new '69 Impala, and that's the year I got my license. 350 V8, 4 bbl carb, positraction, oh yeah! :D: The prettiest deep blue... I loved that car!

So,
1) Make sure you have the new starter and battery.
2) Do not granny drive it.
3) Do not shut it down cold.
4) Do this steam cleaning that T-von just described every once in a while.
5) Make sure your plugs are in perfect shape.

Since the reflash of the recall, mine has been running fine, but I'm seeing like 1, maybe 2 mpg decrease. Not sure if it's the weather, so I've not said anything about it - till now anyway... but yeah, I would like to see yet another flash to fix that if it's for real.

I've never flooded mine. I do - without exception - ever - things 1,2,3,5 and thing 4 sounds like a very good thing. If you truly love your car, then you should know that it's truly different than a piston popper - and because of that - you need to pay attention to things that are different than those things of a piston popper - and not turn around and complain about having to. You do it happily, knowing that it's special and that it's so cool to drive otherwise. I'm just saying those things cuz that's how I think about it, I'm not admonishing you or anybody else...

T-von

My problem is that living in Northern VA you almost can't help but granny drive!!




You drive and auto right? There are easy ways to get in the rpm ranges neccessary for this engine without breaking the law. You can simply put the gear selector in manual mode and cruise on the free way once a week in second gear for about 30sec. Also don't be afraid to floor it like this. If your driving around 60mph, this will put your rpm's over 6k. You do this once a week, I'll gaurangtee your rotary will love you for it. These engines are designed to be reved, so don't be scared and think your going to throw a rod of something. LOL! :)


My car is out of warranty (62k miles), but would the steam cleaning be anything that would void the warranty on one still under warranty?


I really can't answer that question, however, I've never heard of anyone having any long term problems doing this.

T-von, any need to be concerned about the temporary lubrication loss?



Nope! Remember my 84 Rx7 that carbon locked? I ran that engine and put 6k on it in 3 months driving back and forward to work with my omp in idle sip mod. The older carburated Rx7's had a mechanical linkage to the throttle body. When more throttle was applied, the linkage connected to the omp allowed the omp to inject more metering oil for higher rpm's. This linkage was held in place by a small "C" clip. Prior to this mileage I put on my car, I pulled the engine to do an inspection and replace the clutch. In doing so I had to disconnect that "C" clip to remove my omp and intake. Well I stupidly reused that old rusted "C" clip and it came off without me knowing. Anyways I put 6k more miles on my car (all highway driving) with my omp only suppling enough oil for idle mode. When I broke my engine down after carbon locking, I didn't notice any unusual chattering of the rotor housings.

With that said, the water steam clean doesn't last long enough for anyone to be concerned about lubrication issues. But if people are still paranoid, you can easily premix 2cycle oil prior to doing the steam treatment.

You drive and auto right?
No - I drive a manual. I get the engine up to 6-7K regularly. I am always seeing posts talking about red-lining frequently. I seldom rev the engine that high.

I just bought my used 8 a couple of weeks ago - 04 manual w/sport pkg and 29K miles. I've been trolling this board for years and am very aware of the flooding issue - but I don't know if it's my problem. I can drive for 20 miles engine will be warmed up of course, but if I stop to get gas run into a store etc that takes minimal time the engine will just crank and crank and sputter. I've tried the manuals suggestion of holding the pedal down etc but it does diddly. Instead I just have to crank for 5-6 sec, shut down, crank 5-6 sec, shut down and so on until she fires up. I just replaced the battery with a Optima red top too. Grrrr. Dealer said the starter recall was performed. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

I just bought my used 8 a couple of weeks ago - 04 manual w/sport pkg and 29K miles. I've been trolling this board for years and am very aware of the flooding issue - but I don't know if it's my problem. I can drive for 20 miles engine will be warmed up of course, but if I stop to get gas run into a store etc that takes minimal time the engine will just crank and crank and sputter. I've tried the manuals suggestion of holding the pedal down etc but it does diddly. Instead I just have to crank for 5-6 sec, shut down, crank 5-6 sec, shut down and so on until she fires up. I just replaced the battery with a Optima red top too. Grrrr. Dealer said the starter recall was performed. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
You can call the 800 number for MNAO in your owners manual and have them check on exactly which recalls/services have been performed on the car. You'll need your VIN. Make sure the most recent recall has been done. I'll post the link to that one. (Actually two PDF files.)

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/RX-8_Repair_Procedures_recall.pdf
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/OwnerLetterRecall4206F.pdf

The newer starter is a must for quick starting, so you may want to raise the car on a hoist to verify for yourself that the starter has, in fact, been replaced with the newer version. You may need a mirror to see the data plate on the starter. See my attached image for part numbers of the starters.

Also, you might consider replacing the spark plugs, or at least removing them to see if they need replacing.

Finally, I would advise you to take the car into the dealer and tell them of your warm engine-hard starting problem. Hard starts of a warm engine smack of low engine compression. :eek: Make sure they do a proper compression test. And if that's the root cause of your problem, you want to get it taken care of under warranty. (Think engine replacement.)

Oh boy. Thanks for your help. I report back in a couple of days when I get a chance to do all of this.

Update: The above recall has been completed

The coil pack replacement made a significant difference in starting for me. Check for that on the service list as a backup to the starter replacement.

If everything has been done recently, here are a few things I've seen over the years (both RX8 and non-RX8):

- Leaks in the intake are a common culprit.

Make sure everything is plugged in right, especially the main intake. If the car was bought from a dealer, they may have cleaned under the hood and dislodged something.

- Your spark plugs might be loose.

After the most recent replacement of plugs and coil packs (by the dealer as a part of a recall), I noted that my plug wires were tangled up. During the process of untangling them I decided to check on the conditon of the plugs...not that I expected a problem, but I wanted to see what they looked like after only 300 or so miles.

The one I chose to check turned out to be little better than finger tight. Being anal, I got out my torque wrench and tightened it to factory spec. One other needed significant tightening as well.

Hope this helps if the previous, excellent advise does not.

If the warranty runs out and the dealer replaces the plugs its $100.00. I have had mine to flood 5 times. If it floods it really floods. There will so much fuel in the engine case it you take the plugs out and turn the engine over to clear out the case it will fog up out of the fender. Oh I didn't tell you, the best way I found to remove the spark plugs is remove the left front tire and use an extension and universal.

I thought the latest flash got rid of the flooding problem? I flooded the car last year. It was towed to the dealer where they did the latest flash. I had no problems until this morning, but now it won't start.

On Thursday, I started the car, noticed the tire pressure light was on, and noted the flat tire. So I turned the car off and took the other car to work. This morning, as I was planning to go to the tire store, the car refused to start. I assume its flooding because the engine turns.

Ok two quick questions. Since the car was used and although I had it inspected, is there anyway to assess if there was a turbo on it? Also, does anyone have a link to engine recall?

Ok two quick questions. Since the car was used and although I had it inspected, is there anyway to assess if there was a turbo on it? Also, does anyone have a link to engine recall?
Someone else will have to address your first question. Other than mysterious holes in obvious places I don't know how you would know. If you know who the previously owner was, ask him/her their forum name and then do some searching here for their postings. If it was turboed, they would certainly have mentioned that on the forum.

It is not an engine recall. It's a voluntary emissions recall by Mazda and you will find it by clicking on the sticky thread below this one that has links to "Technical Service Bulletins". Just click through a couple of links and you will be at the finishlineperformance.com site that has the bulletins and recalls. The one you want is near the top of the list.

Mazda N America said that recall was completed. I was stranded several more times this fine weekend. Same story. I've found if I just hang out for 15-20 minutes she'll start right up. Guess I'll take it in. I won't even bother messing around with checking plugs. I'll keep you posted. Thank you all for all of your help!

EDIT 3/14 - Dealer called today to say they are stumped. They asked what kind of gas I put in it. When I said Amoco Ultimate 93 he said he was really stumped and they'll look at it some more tomorrow.

EDIT 3/16 - Picked up the car today. Apparently the starter had never been replaced with the updated one. Drove home shut it off and it started up again right away. Still cold here though. It will be in the 60's again in a week or so.

The other day I noticed that when I start the car, It idles at 2k, and the whirling sound of the engine is pretty loud. I wait about 1min, then it quiets down and idles at 1k, like it should...so if ur car is idling at 2k or above, don't drive off, let it warm up for a minute. also, dont turn it off right away either, and u should be ok.

Just my 2 sense

What's the current Mazda policy on dealing with flooded RX8's? I've had the PCM reprogrammed and the starter replaced, but it still happened when my wife had to move the car while I was away, and didn't let it warm up. Now the dealer says I'll have to pay for dealing with it, though it's still under warranty.
Sfourza

I heard that the official word from Mazda is they cover the first flooding for free, after that they'll charge you for dealing with it.

But some forum members were able to get Mazda to cover more than one flood (after a lot of arguing I suppose).

What's the current Mazda policy on dealing with flooded RX8's? I've had the PCM reprogrammed and the starter replaced, but it still happened when my wife had to move the car while I was away, and didn't let it warm up. Now the dealer says I'll have to pay for dealing with it, though it's still under warranty.
Sfourza

Do you also have the new battery and upgraded leading plugs? If not, Mazda should be on the hook for the upgrades as well as the de-flood.

Also, try calling the 800 number to see if Mazda USA will cover the deflood. They will do that in many cases where the dealership takes a hard line.

Also, just curious, is your 8 a 2004/2005 AT?

A week ago I committed the ultimate sin. Pulled the RX-8 out the garage to be washed. You guessed it, dead a a duck trying to start it again.

Mazda South Africa claim they don't know about a generic flooding problem and I need to get the car to them to have a look. So before I start pushing, I decide to come here and read.....

Holy cr@pola! Over 40% have voted they have the flooding problem! And I suspect the other 60% is just clever and always warm the car up. And Mazda SA claims there's nothing wrong. :rolleyes: I've written the local motoring press.

In any case, using the hints in this thread I got the plugs out (via left wheel bay), cleaned them and after doing it all over twice she fired up again.

So thanks for all the hints.

There is nothing wrong with engine flooding.

Even Piston engine can be flooded. its just that due to design, Rotary engine have a higher chance of flooding.

I never warm my car up, I just pull her out 3 hours ago to wash her. You just have to make sure that you have the newest flash (ECU programming)

There is nothing wrong with engine flooding.

Even Piston engine can be flooded. its just that due to design, Rotary engine have a higher chance of flooding.

I never warm my car up, I just pull her out 3 hours ago to wash her. You just have to make sure that you have the newest flash (ECU programming)

Never had this with my RX-7, but twice already with the 8. And according to the poll in this thread, I'm far from alone.

What is the latest version of the ECU flash and how can I check if I've got it? Seems I have to tell Mazda SA what to do, check for, etc....:rolleyes:

Never had this with my RX-7, but twice already with the 8. And according to the poll in this thread, I'm far from alone.

What is the latest version of the ECU flash and how can I check if I've got it? Seems I have to tell Mazda SA what to do, check for, etc....:rolleyes:

It is more than just the ECU flash. The "Engine cranks no start" service bulletin references four changes to improve avoiding/recovering from engine flooding:

- Updated PCM firmware
- Larger battery
- More powerful starter
- Redesigned leading plugs

You can print a copy of the bulletin from http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-048-06-1691.pdf .

Note: Mazda still recommends against cutting the engine off cold, even with all the updates. Best bet to avoid flooding is to make sure the engine has warmed up before turning it off.

Just curious, has Mazda made any changes to the newer RX-8s to make less prone to flooding than the first years?

Just curious, has Mazda made any changes to the newer RX-8s to make less prone to flooding than the first years?

yes

beers :beer:

Can the 06 starter be used on a 04 model without changing anything else??and where ca i find one??not from mazda though too expensive

Engine flooded and second time.

I just went local dealer and explained it.

They called me that everything is fine except battery.

Battery has to be replaced and I have to pay for it, $130.

Hm...I do not know. I asked them about condition of spark plugs and

they said again that Everything is Find! Just Replace Battery!!:rant:

Anyway....I have to pick my baby up.

I HAVE NO CLUE HOW TO FIX MINE. AFTER FINISHING THE ENTIRE GAS TANK DURING A TRIP THE CAR NEVER STARTED ANYMORE. IN 2 OF THE PLUGS, THERE IS NO SPARK AND HENCE THE CAR TAKES ALMOST 20 SECONDS TO START BARELY AND DIES DOWN EVENTUALLY. PLS HELP. NO MAZDA DEALER IN MY COUNTRY. 12000MILES ON 2005 RX8. NUMAYER@GMAIL.COM

My 05 was flooding on occasion when the engine was warm. This was a recall and the issue was resolved by my dealer.

The best way to start a flooded Renesis is with a quick tow in 2nd gear. Since I changed my rotors to modded Rx-7 rotors I haven't had this problem. Maybe the 9:1 compression has something to do with it.

I recommend the tow method though. that's what most Mazda workshops do though few would admit this. There's no need to clean the plugs though. Just a good run after it has started will clean the plugs most of the time

You changed to fd3s rotors??And what mod do they have on them?Why you say modded??Did you kept the renesis apex seals??Do you have forced induction??What top rpms are you running now with the rx7 rotors in???

On the flooding problem. My RX-8 is a 2006, (Build date June 2006) with about 4500 miles on it. I have not had a flooding problem but usually let it warm up (idle) before I shut it off. The other evening, I had it parked out and drove it into the garage and left it idle to warm it up. The next morning it was still running. The cooling fan was running but the engine temperature was normal. No major damage that I can tell except, but it may be my imagination, that it has a little less power on the low end and may take an extra turn of the starter to get it running. Any body got any comments ( besides my being stupid)?

Nope. The "you're stupid" thing is all that comes to mind. :lol:

Make sure you take it on a good drive and blow any crap out of it that might have built-up.

is the correct fix to a flooded engine really to start the car with the gas floored? that sounds like it could really do some damage but of course i've never owned a rotary before.

is the correct fix to a flooded engine really to start the car with the gas floored? that sounds like it could really do some damage but of course i've never owned a rotary before.

Close. The procedure is to CRANK (not start) the car with the gas pedal floored. The floored pedal is used to indicate to the PCM that no gas should be injected into the engine so that the trapped fuel can be ejected from the engine (or so the theory goes).

Haven't flooded by RX8 in two years (whew), but it was a common occurance on my RX7:banghead:. I used to pull the CB's for the fuel pump and crank it over to blow out the fuel and then it would start every time.

people are telling me that if i'm doing short trips, to prevent flooding i'm supposed to rev the car up to 3.5k-4k rpms and shut off the engine. they say it will prevent the flooding issue,
anyone hear of this ?

If you haven't had issues I wouldn't worry about it. I have started my RX almost every day to move it out of the way to take my motorcycle out from the back of the garage, it is run for no more than a minute or two and it has never been an issue. I would be more concerned about ensuring the ECM was flashed to the latest as Mazda have really been working to fix the problem.