I can't find anything in the manual about shutting the car down.

It is not in the owner's manual. It is in the "Quick Tips" or the "Drivers's Guide" (depending on vehicle vintage), which is a separate small booklet that comes along with the owner's manual.

Check out http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1097838&postcount=954 for what to look for.

Amazingly enough, since the initial RX-8 deliveries to the US/Canada, Mazda has been pushing the same short-trip procedure. What changes are the listed consequences of not following the procedure which, to this day, still does NOT list "engine flooding" as a possible consequence.

MEGAREDS has nailed it in his above post. I have nothing to add, he said it all, and all correctly. Follow that advice and probably you too will enjoy a flooding-free RX-8 4 evar! Good job dude.

I' I can't find anything in the manual about shutting the car down. .

I read the owner's manual diligently when I got my RX-8 two years ago, but didn't pick up on the flooding issue until it happened to me a couple months later. The warm-up/shut-down procedure is in the "Quick-Start" booklet not the big manual. I've never had a repeat since I started following the procedure described there (warm into the "operating range", then rev to 3000 for 10 seconds before switch-off).

Sounds good to me. I had been looking through the Quick Tips but hadn't read it all yet. Figures.

Sounds good to me. I had been looking through the Quick Tips but hadn't read it all yet. Figures.

Don't feel too bad. I knew it was there and it still took me a while to find it again.

Well, I spoke to Karen at Mazda North America in California and asked her about the flooding issue and if the dealership was correct in telling me that they will no longer honor the warranty if the car comes in with the flooding issue again. According to her "since you have been informed of what to do do prevent flooding, they are correct." They will no longer honor the warranty.

Sure, I can follow the tips. But what happens when I, for some reason, do not or my wife uses the car? I shouldn't have to worry that the car will not start.

I have been following the 8 since it was the Evolv. I wanted one for a long time and waited patiently though the years. If I get rid of it, I am not using this as my excuse to justify me trading it in. I don't want to. But I am not happy with its reliability as well as Mazda's reluctance to offer good customer service on their products.

Well I found this site tonight when my 04 RX-8 would not start, yes i moved it into the garage not knowing that i should warm it up before i turn it off. Tried everything that I read on this site but to no avail so finally Mazda sent a flatbed and took my car away. This happened last year at this time, they towed it and next day called me to pick up the car. Nothing was put in my manual and neither was i told how to prevent it again. This is very frustrating and Mazda own website with the owners lounge has no info on it. www.mazda.ca as I am in Canada. Plus have been reading the mpg bits and i get only 300km on a 50litre tank!!! So I really need to talk to my Mazda service department. But this site is awesome, you guys know much more than the Mazda guys! Thanks.

The warning about shutting down the car cold is in the US owner's manual and in some of the other material that came with the new car. I assume the US manual is basically the same as the Canadian manual.

Well, I spoke to Karen at Mazda North America in California and asked her about the flooding issue and if the dealership was correct in telling me that they will no longer honor the warranty if the car comes in with the flooding issue again.

This is the policy I was very concerned would happen back in early '04. I think anyone concerned about this should ask Mazda NA to put their policy in writing, and I also don't think it is reasonable for any new buyer to consider the the RX-8 unless Mazda affirmatively promises to stand behind him if the car fails to start.

I have my letter (somewhere) -- so I am pretty sure that I will be covered if my car floods a second time. If I were you, however, CJW, I would do as I did and write Mazda NA a polite letter expressing your frustration at what the dealer and Karen told you, and ask them to state their policy in writing as to how they will handle your second flood, should it ever come.

ALSO, I recommend to anyone who floods... be sure to get a photo of your car as it is being loaded on the flatbed. Don't post it -- after doing so with my photo a while back, I've come to realize that that type of post is unnecessarily nasty to a car company that I really want to support -- but please be sure to put it aside in the event the forum members ever decide to petition Mazda NA to change its mind. Twenty or so of us with photos of our cars on a flatbed will make a nice statement if it ever has to come to that.

Twenty or so of us with photos of our cars on a flatbed will make a nice statement if it ever has to come to that.

Excellent point. It would be very bad publicity for Mazda that they have a car that can cost an owner $200-$400 for the simple mistake of backing the car out of the garage and turning it off. FD owners may accept this as normal, but most of the rest of the car buying public won't.

It is also odd that Mazda is returning to a hard-line on this issue based on the following:

- None of the verbiage related to shutting the engine down cold talks about or even directly implies that flooding or an inability to restart the car is a possible consequence. This is true of both the QuickTips and the "Engine Cranks - no start" TSB. I don't remember for sure but I don't believe the "product update" DVD indicates that consequence either. I do believe the the verbiage is intentionally vague to avoid the statement becoming a deterrent to sales.

- CJW received only verbal notification. If Mazda were going to press the point I would expect them to request that one sign a written acknowledgement of notice.

- It doesn't sound like CJW was even given a copy of the last page of the "Engine cranks - no start" TSB, which the TSB instructs the service department to do.

- Mazda does not provide the car owner any tools to deal with this issue other than requiring the owner to oversee the shutdown process every time the car is turned off. No "Don't turn off yet" warning light, no turbo-timer like delay, no easy way for the owner to restart a flooded car, etc.

- Basically this is a no-win issue for Mazda. The best thing they can do is what thay have been doing since mid-2004, which is to downplay/bury this issue as much as possible. Making it a controversy again doesn't help anyone.

Hence it is hard for Mazda to simply claim that "You have been warned!". Not that they won't do just that anyway. CJW, I agree with MEGAREDS that you should write Mazda USA requesting the policy in writing.

Because it would be bad business to do so, I don't think Mazda NA would ever tell its dealers formally to charge for a second or third deflood, unless the owner said something stupid like he flooded it deliberately. I don't doubt, however, that there are dealers that might try to charge a customer if the dealer believed the customer would not complain. It is possible that Mazda NA's service representatives are just saying more than they are authorized to say when asked about what Mazda's future policy with regard to second or third deflood repairs. That's why getting it in writing is important.

That being said, I also don't think we can reasonably hope Mazda will make a broad policy statement that it will pay for however many floods an owner has, for fear that it could end up being very expensive and something they want to back away from later. Again, it would be bad business. Their plan, as I see it, is to give every incentive to customers to take care in shutting down the car so repairs aren't necessary. Mazda would be making a huge mistake to push it so far as to appear to threaten towing or other charges against people whose new car has just left them stranded. I remember how angry I was, and if my dealer ever again suggested a charge for a deflood repair on my car while it is was under warranty, I would go absolutely Ape :bootyshak (You get the idea).

We should agree to support one another if a charge is threatened or made against any of us, complaining individually at first, then as a group, not getting ugly unless, after a reasonable period of time, Mazda makes it clear that its policy is to blame us for the flooding. At that point, we can explore our options, and I can think of several that would likely cost Mazda more than the cost of repairing the flooded cars of RX8club.com's forum members.

So... I really do hope CJW presses Mazda NA with a written request for a more formal response to what he has been told, so we can figure out if Mazda NA still wants to hold the high ground on the "flooding issue." I am almost sure they will respond to such a letter, and hopeful that it will be supportive, as my letter was, and then we'll know not to worry so much, for a while, anyway, about turning the key.

Another instance where a dealer wants to charge for a de-flood.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=77511

Another instance where a dealer wants to charge for a de-flood.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=77511

But ended up covering it under warranty...

UPDATE (http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1141538&postcount=8)

Yeah, PLUS the new battery AND starter. No charge. I want!

But ended up covering it under warranty...

I am concerned about the general issue of this "change in policy" showing up again. It's not a good trend. I liked it better when conventional wisdom with owners and dealers was that Mazda warranty covers floods.

The fact that so far Mazda ultimately backs down and covers the repair simply means they don't have the guts to enforce it ... yet.

There's also always the case where you accidently stall (it happens to all of us sometime) when trying to first take off after starting your car. The car stalls easier than normal when cold anyway, especially with the Greddy turbo kit running an emanage. Poof, flooded. I let my brother drive my car last week and this almost happened. He stalled, but luckily it didn't flood.

I would deflood it myself if I am in a place where I can get to some tools, but if I'm far from home or for someone who can't deflood it. I'd be pissed if they told me I had to pay $400 to fix my car because I stalled.

Can it flood that quickly? Won't it re-start ok if you re-start immediately?

Hi All (whoever is reading); long time no see here in the forum.
I believe I successfully flooded my car last night. Started in driveway, backed into garage, only had running about 2 minutes; forgot to do the 3000 for 10 seconds before shutting down. Guess I got careless after no flooding issues so far although I was mindful of the potential problem and let if run for about a minute (about 4 minutes not enough, I know).
Questions: I have searched the forum as I should - but I haven't been on for quite some time and the one poll alone has 69 pages now - so - 1) IS there a fairly reliable flooded state start resolution that I can do at home that has surfaced over the last two years? and 2) How many PCM revs have come out since I acquired "M" a good bit ago?
for those who are more recently new members of this wonderful forum, I was one of the pre-order group that posted a lot here back in the late 2002, early 2003 era when everything was so new and lots of speculation prevailed.
I now have about 33K ( haven't updated my sig lately either) and had been still getting 21MPG average until about the last two months in the Memphis area it's been in the upper 19 to very low 20 range.
While I'm asking questions:
the flood resolution - if it includes towing to a dealer - does it include getting a the stronger 600CA battery?
From what I've read today, my game plan at the time is to pop the hood, connect jumper cables to my van and while running try the pedal to the floor 10 seconds while cranking followed by cranking for up to 10 seconds off the throttle method. If it doesn't work, then my plan would involve calling the closest dealer in the morning to find out how much experience they have with replacing plugs/flooding resolution. Any other suggestions from those who have experienced this ( and I believe, from the poll, there are way too many of us here ).

First, use the Mazda de-choke procedure. If that doesn't work, (I have not done this personally) STROKERCHARGED95GT posted the following procedure:

dude it takes less than 30 minutes to deflood it yourself.

step 1: jack up car and take of front left wheel
step 2: pull the fuel pump and injector fuses
step 3: remove little plastic shield in wheel well
step 4: remove the 4 spark plug wires from the plugs ( they are marked and not easily switched)
step 5: remove plugs with various socket extension
Step 6: crank over engine and eject all the gas from the housing (15-20 secs)
step 7: clean and replace plugs and do the steps in reverse

it will probably run like crap the first few minutes but keep the revs up 3-4k and she'll smoke out the tail pipes.

From what I've read today, my game plan at the time is to pop the hood, connect jumper cables to my van and while running try the pedal to the floor 10 seconds while cranking followed by cranking for up to 10 seconds off the throttle method. If it doesn't work, then my plan would involve calling the closest dealer in the morning to find out how much experience they have with replacing plugs/flooding resolution. Any other suggestions from those who have experienced this ( and I believe, from the poll, there are way too many of us here ).
That's the routine recommended in the manual alright. Try it several times if it doesn't start on the first try. There are other more involved things you can do yourself if you would rather start it yourself, but a trip to the dealer is certainly the easiest option if the car is still under warranty. And you may get new plugs out of the deal that way. I don't know about the battery. Some dealers do it without question, others do not if it passes their tests.

You can ask to have the battery and starter replaced by the dealer, but they will likely prorate the battery if they give you a new one. One of the recommended replacement batteries is the Interstate MTP-35 with a cold cranking amp (CCA) rating of 640 (or maybe it's 660) which runs about $70 USD. Good luck.

the dechoking procedure has worked for me three times already.

im sure its listed here somewhere, but here it is again if anyone needs it:
~ Dechoking procedure from Mazda video
. 1 Hold accelerator and clutch to the floor
. 2 Crank engine (turn key) for 7 seconds
. 3 Release key, then accelerator pedal
. 4 Start engine
. 5 OK if smoke from exhaust
. 6 Don’t crank key for more than 10 seconds
. 7 Don’t race engine
. 8 Pedal to the floor prevents gas to the engine

thanks for the responses
Unfortunately, it will NOT start. I removed the fuel pump relay for most of my 7 second cranking periods, then put it back in for the 'start engine'[as normal] cranking. It got to where it sounded like it might light up but never did. IF I had confidence in 1) my wife to push the car w/ our van and 2) getting the car back to our house if it didn't start - I'd do the push start thing - that always worked with the 1st gens I had.

^ couldja get a couple neighbors to help push start? just saw this done a few weeks ago ... i was amazed it works!

Hey Daniel. Sorry about the flood. Please snap a picture of the car being pulled onto the flatbed if you go that route, and be sure to ask that they send a flatbed, not a conventional tow truck. Also, post your dealer experience.

thanks for the responses
Unfortunately, it will NOT start.

At this point your plugs are probably fouled and there is still a bunch of fuel in the combustion chambers. If you get get high enough revs, long enough it might kick over (someone towed their 8 behing their SUV once). Otherwise someone needs clean the plugs, dry our the chambers, charge the battery and change the oil to get her running again. Probably best to have the dealer do it.

You want to push the dealer for:
- fix the flood
- latest PCM upgrade (part of fixing the flood)
- hotter spark plugs (part of fixing the flood)
- upgraded battery
- upgraded starter (they probably won't do this on a first flood)
- have all the above covered under warranty

Oh man, I would NEVER push-start the car with another vehicle. Damage to the paint - or worse - to either or both vehicles needs to be expected if you try that. Expect that. RedSheDevil is right about finding some guy or guys to do the pushing.

why would anyone every consider pushing a vehicle with another, especially something as nice as the 8. That's just crazy. Hell have someone push it, I push mine on occasion out of the garage to wash it.

I've pushed mine in and out of the garage countless times - the 8, the Miata, our van. I pushed the 8 out Saturday. But there's a big bump to push it back in. I've pushed the Miata around a few parking lots after leaving the parking lights on to start it.
However, our driveway terminates at a fairly busy street, and across that street is another driveway. Besides that, even when I pushed a Caddy about two city blocks, it's difficult to push it up to 15MPH by myself.
I had a friend push my older 1st gen before w/ another car. IF I were to do that with the 8, I'd do it carefully , cover the bumper, make sure the pusher knows the signal of when to stop pushing, etc. It can be done.
However, in this case the dealer will be getting the car tomorrow, assuming roadside agrees the tow will be piggy back, and then they agree to use the tow hooks. And if they can get to my house in a timely matter in the morning so I can ride in , get a rental, and get to work at a reasonable time, etc. Unless of course I should find a few guys in the new neighborhood w/ the guts to push a car in the dark around the corner of a busy street. I'm north of Memphis if anyone's in the area!

The thought of walking with my feet ten feet off of Beale is a good one:bluesuit: , but this is just the wrong time of the year. Can this wait till May?

04 rx8 just flooded after someone pulled it out of the garage and parked it. i warned that someone numerous times about the flooding problems and what do do but i got ignored. anyways, 2 days later i finally got time to make it start. took about an hr total. final solution was pushing it down the driveway since im SURE the plugs were fouled. not new to flooding in rotaries, have an 87 gxl. rebuilt numerous engines and have seen flooding counntless times. this happens. it happened to me, itll happen to other people. i think our best bet is just to be careful. and since i read many posts about people complaining they cant just start the car and move it a few feet, and park it. I can't start it, move it, and shut it off. the car wants you to drive it, cant you take a few mins out of your schedule to just go drive it. its a fun car and you should be able to at least do that every time you start it. (btw, i also have a 90 240sx with a rb20det skyline engine, it floods too when cold, but its easier to get started, i deal with it)
in closing: yeah, it floods. but if you can be smart about how you drive it and actually do what you're told, its fine. any other car it says not to leave your headlights on, so you dont. why would it be different if it told you not to do quick start/stops? dont do it and you'll be fine. congrats on buying a rotary, but you also bought the rotary problems.

doesnt change the fact that it sucks ....

My feeling is I hope Mazda's engineers are working overtime to erase this as one of the common rotary problems and I hope they recognise their responsibility in the the situation of sales of this vehicle or lack thereof.

Ya. Needs to go by the way of the manual choke. aka, extinct.

Stopping gasoline condensation in an enclosed, cold chamber... I think it's a tough problem.

Stopping gasoline condensation in an enclosed, cold chamber... I think it's a tough problem.

Or add some highly combustable material to ignite the gasoline in the chamber ... without blowing the apex seals.

Results of my 8's visit to the shop for the flood issue:

1) New Battery
2) New starter
3) New plugs

took pic on flat bed truck in my driveway
In Thursday morning; back Friday afternoon
also flashed to N, I think. (FP-N3Y118S70?)

with rental car ($60) total was over $600 (Mazda's cost)
also had the ventilation knobs replaced as the temp control knob had been cracked for a while - new ones feel a lot tighter.

starter spins the engine a lot faster - anyone know what the spec on that is? sounds like twice +/- as original one did.

Had enough with Mazda. Too bad. I love the 8 and really loved my Miatas. I will not buy Mazda again for their insistence on not standing by the customer and no longer honoring my warranty (15k miles) when it floods since I have been "briefed on what to do."

Looking at Saab and Honda. I will probably go the Saab route since it got Safest Sedan for 2006.

I want to make sure I wasn' t misleading in the post about my flooding fix.
ALL of the replacement parts and the "repair" were done under warranty. Basically, it's like a tune-up, a brand new battery and starter, all for free.
I also saw the old plugs & starter; and a new plug. The redesign has 4 small slots around the tip apparently for allowing extra fuel to not get as easily hung up in the plug and foul it as quickly if another flood circumstance takes place.
BTW - anyone know specs of the latest battery rating? The TSB stated 640; the tech (not the service writer) said the new spec is 800CCA, and that a newer one had recently stated 835CCA?

[QUOTE=rx8danielBTW - anyone know specs of the latest battery rating? The TSB stated 640; the tech (not the service writer) said the new spec is 800CCA, and that a newer one had recently stated 835CCA?[/QUOTE]

From what I understand, the new starter needs 800+ CCA (apparently 835). The 640 CCA battery upgrade was from when they thought that changing the battery alone was enough.

I will not buy Mazda again for their insistence on not standing by the customer and no longer honoring my warranty (15k miles) when it floods since I have been "briefed on what to do."

I understand your irritation but I would be surprised if this will ever be inforced. Unless someone knows a case where Mazda took a hard line on this, I would simply consider this rhetoric. Certainly not a reason to sell a car you otherwise like.

I understand your irritation but I would be surprised if this will ever be inforced. Unless someone knows a case where Mazda took a hard line on this, I would simply consider this rhetoric. Certainly not a reason to sell a car you otherwise like.
tru ... you may want to try another dealership. just because a dealership states something, it doesnt mean MNAO is behind that statement. i just read a thread about someone taking their car in and being told their pistons were dirty. yes, THAT came from a mazda dealership's service tech.

i have a question.. im leaving my car for about 3 weeks as im going out of town, it gets really cold around here ~20-30F, any tips out there so that i dont flood my car when i get back 3 weeks later?

should i park my car in a garage or just leave it outside?
thanks

i have a question.. im leaving my car for about 3 weeks as im going out of town, it gets really cold around here ~20-30F, any tips out there so that i dont flood my car when i get back 3 weeks later?

should i park my car in a garage or just leave it outside?
thanks

I don't think it matters, but warmer is better. As long as you don't shut it down cold before you leave it, it should be fine, provided the battery can hold a charge for three weeks, and I think it should. At -30 F, though, anyone might have a problem -- but "flooding" won't be the reason the car doesn't start.

Preferrably you should park it indoors and perhaps hook up a trickle charger to the battery. It's just healthy.

Preferrably you should park it indoors and perhaps hook up a trickle charger to the battery. It's just healthy.
kinda like a car IV? :D:

I don't have a problem with mine. I park it in the garage all week and it starts right up every weekend. There's one thing I do with all my cars though. I turn on the ignition switch and wait for the fuel pump to cycle up. I can hear it and other things spinning/acitivating. Once they stop then I start the car. I do this on my Mazda 3 as well. Only have to wait a few seconds but I never have a problem.

This makes a lot of sense, yet one more precaution against the engine flooding.

So far, from what I understand, to prevent flooding techniques:

1) Let fuel pump cycle up first before starting
2) Never shut down cold, but if you do, rev it to 3000rpm for a few seconds and return to idle before shut-down
3) For pre-2005 cars, get the unadvertised campaign recall - replace with the new starter, battery, flash and plugs
4) Let the engine warm up for 30s to 1 minute before engaging the gears
5) Don't buy cheap or questionable quality gasoline

Is there anything else?

For pre-2005 cars, get the unadvertised campaign recall - replace with the new starter, battery, flash and plugs

Two things. First I don't believe all (any?) 2005s come with the 800+ CCA battery and new starter. They should have the 640 CCA battery, which does help, but is not as good as the big battery and new starter.

Second, there is no unadvertised recall on this issue. There is only the "Engine Cranks - no start" TSB. If your car floods, and the service dept determines it is warranted, they will replace the plugs, battery and starter under warranty as part of the repair. Based on the procedure you are pretty much guaranteed to get new plugs and an ECU update. The battery and starter are not unconditional.

I don't think anyone, who has not flooded the car at least once, has gotten a plug/battery/starter upgrade under warranty, but I could be wrong.

Waiting for the flatbed as I type. First time. Pulled the 8 out yesterday to make room for truck work. Let it warm up to within operating temps, and shut it off. Hours later, pulled it back into the garage without a thought otherwise.

This morning, I opened the garage door to 20 degree temps, started it up, pulled it out of the garage and it died. Didn't kill it; it just died. Immediately tried to start it back up; no go. Tried the deflood; no go.

Think they can fix it in a day?!? Need it before Monday!!! I'm a little bummed, to say the least.

Yeah, moving these cars around is hazardous business sometimes.

Can they fix it in a day? They can, but don't count on it. Depends on how soon they get to it and how much they value your continued patronage I suppose. In other words, their motivation is probably the key factor. Assuming the problem is simply a flooded engine, and that they have spark plugs and possibly a replacement battery and starter motor, the actual work can be done in less than an hour. They should be able to just get it started in a few minutes, but they will likely want to replace the plugs at least, and possibly the other components as well.

My question is does anyone who have flooded their car, disconnected the air pump when they did the deflood procedure? I know it doesn't say anything about it in the manual but on the TSB about "Not cranking" it is listed as one of the steps for the tech to perform. Wonder if it would make a difference?

Based on the procedure you are pretty much guaranteed to get new plugs and an ECU update.

since there isnt any new PCM update since the under car heat recall there wouldnt be one to do if they have already had the recall work done.

since there isnt any new PCM update since the under car heat recall there wouldnt be one to do if they have already had the recall work done.

Correct, if the PCM is up to date I wouldn't expect them to re-flash it (no point).

However, if you previously have not had the "under car heat" recall work done, one of the first steps in the TSB is to check the PCM level and to bring it up to date if it isn't. My sense (if my service guy can be believed) is that they don't do this by flash level any more. They just type in your VIN and the software automatically loads Mazda's latest and greatest for your car.

They "fixed" it for now. Took then three hours from drop-off-to-pick-up. Replaced plugs and made it runable. Didn't have a new battery or starter on hand to throw in it, so they will order them. Mazda is off today due to the holidays, and the dealership said they couldn't even order parts because of that. So maybe in a couple of weeks I'll be better than normal.

Two thumbs up to Mazda's Roadside Assistance. I called at 0700, and at 0830 the flatbed left here for the dealer with my 8 on top. Actually got a confirmation call after talking to Mazda from AAA stating that a truck had been dispatched. All and all, it made me feel better about my mistake. Not going to happen again!

when my 8 got flooded, they did not send a FLATBED truck, just regular one and I think the car was towed with the rear lifted up/ front down. I vaguely remember something certain vehicles require flatbed towing?

Taking the risk of asking a stupid question here: What is the problem with using a regular tow truck? (It would not be a RWD vs FWD issue or?)

My truck was sent by Mazda Roadside Assistence also..

just got my 2004 8 back from service for flooding (covered under warranty) right now. When i got back my car today they told me they put in a new starter and new plugs. Interesting part is they told me they tested the battery and found it satisfactory, nothing was wrong with it. so they did not replace the battery for me which is a bummer cuz I did want it. :mad:

MadDashRX8, you got lucky. My car died December 30, 2003 and it was returned to me January 3, 2004 -- four days of sitting looking at it either in my driveway or in the dealership's parking lot. When it was returned to me, no new battery, spark plugs or starter. .. and they initially told me that they would have to charge me -- about $150, if I recall correctly. Eventually they did it under warranty, but it was a very frustrating few days.

when my 8 got flooded, they did not send a FLATBED truck, just regular one and I think the car was towed with the rear lifted up/ front down. I vaguely remember something certain vehicles require flatbed towing?

Taking the risk of asking a stupid question here: What is the problem with using a regular tow truck? (It would not be a RWD vs FWD issue or?)

My truck was sent by Mazda Roadside Assistence also..

You don't actually HAVE to have a flatbed, per Mazda. I asked the Roadside Assistance guy, and he said it was already in their notes for RX-8's. I feel better about the condition of my front valance when she's on a flatbed, as opposed to dragging the front in the dirt the whole way.

Here's the page from the manual:

Took her in today to finish the job. Had plugs replaced 10 days ago, just to get her running again over the holiday break. Got the battery and starter replaced today. Boy does she start quick now! Sounds completely different, too! I'm very happy to have had this happen. No worries about flooding again now.

Also added a K&N Intake (thanks Santa!), and she sounds nothing like she did yesterday. As loud as that thing is, I've almost decided against getting an exhaust! :hahano:

Been seeing alot of threads on the Flooding issue, and relation to failed Cats.
I think it may have been brought up before, but just for emphasis, if you continuously drive short distances but utilize proper shut down procedures and don't ever suffer flooding, what are the long term effects, especially on the cat converter?? I believe the fuel mixture is still rich in short distance driving, and even if it doesn't result in the plugs fouling up (& flooding), will the cat or other components wear out faster??

The fuel mixture is rich anytime the engine is started cold, whether the engine is destined to to warm up completely or whether the short trip procedure is followed. I would assume the CAT is designed to handle this as a normal circumstance (however I am not an automotive engineer).

The fuel mixture is rich anytime the engine is started cold, whether the engine is destined to to warm up completely or whether the short trip procedure is followed. I would assume the CAT is designed to handle this as a normal circumstance (however I am not an automotive engineer).

Right, the Cat should be able to handle the intial start up period of any car when the AFR is rich, but what if the engine is REPEATEDLY shut off before full warm up, i.e. a 10-15 minute or longer drive, and the rich mix is still left in the Cat and not allowed to burn off enough on a frequent basis??

Sounds like your question is what is the impact of repeatedly leaving a rich mixture to condense in the CAT ... a good question.

Can't believe it is any different for a piston engine ... a rich mixture to start with left to condense in the CAT. I would expect CATs to be designed to handle it but, again, I'm not an engineer.

For anyone that is interested. TWO ROTORS has definitive info that the new starter is a 12volt unit. Check out:

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1186668&postcount=14

I'm quite sure this is a real problem. I've turned off ignition once when the engine was cold and... it flooded. I tried all the tricks mentioned here and elsewhere on the net and couldn't get it to start, even a week later.

Fortunately a local mechanic was able to remove and clean the plugs, and only then would my car start.

I've spoken to a few dealerships since. They're all familiar with it happening, two mentioned it happening on their own lots. This could be most common among the people who aren't active on the board?

What could Mazda do? I guess anything that would keep the engine running despite the drivers intention to shuit down the engine would be a fire risk? Perhaps a big panel light saying "Careful - Engine cold"?

well befor i gotten the rx8 i had 350z and s2000. the z one time was flooded only when for the first time ever i put crown gas 93. i felt the gas was a little heavy and slow to burn. so ever since i used shel 93. now i have the rx8 for couple months and had no flooding problems. i have turned it of MANY times of when the car was really really cold..... 22F and no problems.

so my question for those who flooded, what kinda gas where you using? the could be a reason although i dought it. :rock:

Has anyone flooded an RX-8 that was built 4/2005 or later? If so, please post a message in the following thread:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=80545

Thank you!

im curious, is it considered flooding if you dint have to have it towed? i was able to restart my using the dechoking procedure 3x already.

Using the deflooding procedure is flooding IMHO.

im curious, is it considered flooding if you dint have to have it towed? i was able to restart my using the dechoking procedure 3x already.

I would say yes. However you have a good point. Please note how you go the car restarted:

- Dechoke procedure from the manual (holding pedal to the floor)
- A more complex dechoke procedure (high speed tow, pulling plugs, injecting washer fluid or oil in the combustion chamber, casting chicken bones, etc
- towing to the dealer

well my build date is 06/03 so i wont post in the other thread. i have R flash and have flooded three times (twice from the "garage to driveway BAD BAD rx-8 owner" and once for no apparent reason)

all were fixed with 10-15 minutes of the dechoke procedure as described in the manual (pedal to floor). tho im wondering wtf that has done to my starter ...

tho im wondering wtf that has done to my starter ...

With a 6/03 build, you can push for the battery/starter/plug upgrade.

Off to get my 2004 Rx-8 tomorrow morning. Had the battery/starter/plugs upgrade. Have had a few hard starts and two frank flooding since new. Personally I think most RX-8 owners should push for the upgrades while the warranty is in place. Have two older RX-7s - never any flooding issues. Had a 1986 Rx-7 back in Canada - flooded it once. In this day and age - no new car owners should have ANY starting problems in the first five years - period.

well i have a great dealership, so i just may have to do this. they seem to understand that the customer is number one...

Can I change my vote? After driving the car for 1 1/2 years I finally flodded it. Moved the car and shut it off. Three days later moved it again and shut it off. Next morning I had to use the procedure in the manual to get it going. I am lucky that my dealer already replaced my battery with the heavy duty one.

^ how did you get it replaced before flooding? im just wondering what you said to the dealership ...

i posted the update here http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67575 nothign changed from the previous version except some of the warranty info

For those of you who have not seen it, ZOOM44 posted the latest "Engine cranks no start" TSB. It appears that if you go in to the dealer with any kind of starting complaint, not just flooding, some (many?) dealerships will do part/all of the starter/battery/plugs update listed in the TSB.

Remember, this is not a recall so they don't have to do it unless you bring the car in with the specific complaint addressed by the TSB (inability to start).

Thanks MSRECANT. I've had a few slow starts in the past couple weeks. My dealer says that it passes, but I'm not happy and am going back...

I'm lucky (?), if I let my 8 sit for 5 or 6 days it barely starts. Next week is my 30K service so, hopefully, I can convince them to do the starter/battery thing. The 30K service includes new plugs anyway and I have a 247 HP free-maintenance card.

I would be fine even if I had to pay for the battery, which I believe is not fully warranted for the entire 48 months/50 K miles.

Ah, but, this isn't battery failure, it's car design failure. That's why they should give you (and me) a battery that is neccessary to combat this flooding problem. It's not the battery that's the reason you should get a new battery, it's the system of the car that causes flooding, and the original weak battery is definitely one of the weak links.

So true - the CCA of the original battery is part of the flooding. I had to re-charge my battery three times to get it de-flooded the second time it flooded - and once the first time. All cars have a degree of battery draw at all times - and the electronics / stereo are a draw during starting and inital warm-up.

All RX-8s should be upgraded IMHO ... and probably in the users' / future buyers ' opinion too.

RX8_GT and Racer X-8,

Basically I agree with you both. This is a design flaw that should be fixed. FYI, all RX-8s built after 6/1/2004 have the upgraded battery. All RX-8s built after 12/1/2004 have the upgraded starter. The new plugs went into production starting 3/22/2005.

However, Mazda doesn't appear to agree with us and will only update pre 12/1/2004 vehicles at their discretion, which varies from dealer to dealer.

Yeah, I certainly hope that MNAO doesn't start copping the feeling that they've been kind enough to us pre-order / first owner types, but enough is enough. Like we're just coming up with another gripe just to get another freebie from them, just trying to, you know, for the fun of trying, but we aint getting nothing for free this time. Somehow, those are the bad vibes I'm getting about this issue.

My dealer has been very good to do the upgrades where I have had issues. But it's poor future planning to shortchange early buyers - the cost of plugs / starter / battery along with labour is probably less $250 to Mazda. The cost of not doing it is a ongoing problem which will 'de-flower' the RX-8. Other manufacturer reacting to similar issues in the past have learned this the hard way.

Personally I plan to upgrade the battery to a Optima with CCA of 800 - a 34R - shortly - and add a trickle charger. The second time my RX-8 flooded the battery just was there when I needed it.

The Rx-8 now starts instantly - I hope for the long term. I've bought an Mazda extended warranty for 7 years / 60000 miles.

Racer X-8:

I agree with you - I'm loyal to Mazda as you can see by the list of some of my cars - in fact have a Mazda 626 for the family. But this is a real issue that requires a final fix - I hope the latest is the last time I have to worry about it.

The next car for my family is a MazdaSpeed 6 - in 2007 or so.

My record with new car warranties is very low demand. But basic starting and running is a minimum.

Yeah, I certainly hope that MNAO doesn't start copping the feeling that they've been kind enough to us pre-order / first owner types, but enough is enough. Like we're just coming up with another gripe just to get another freebie from them, just trying to, you know, for the fun of trying, but we aint getting nothing for free this time. Somehow, those are the bad vibes I'm getting about this issue.
funny, i havent gotten this type of response from either MNAO (had to call about my nav firmware update disc) or my local dealer. both have been nothing but nice and helpful ... the more i read tho, the more i realize i have a very different experience at my dealership than most so ill consider myself lucky to live near a good one!!!

taking my 8 in for flooding issues next week, so we'll see how that turns out. they also knocked $10 off an oil change for me too (its too cold here for me to consider laying on the freezing garage floor to do this one).

Oh, I haven't tried to talk my dealership into anything in this matter. Usually, the TSB says to give it to the customer if/when they ask, or it's a recall. This time, it's neither. I have never flooded my 8, so, I don't have much of a reason to demand a new battery or starter. It's just a different setup, as compared to, like, the oil pan issue was.

Oh, I haven't tried to talk my dealership into anything in this matter. Usually, the TSB says to give it to the customer if/when they ask, or it's a recall. This time, it's neither. I have never flooded my 8, so, I don't have much of a reason to demand a new battery or starter. It's just a different setup, as compared to, like, the oil pan issue was.

Easy fix:

1. Start your 8
2. Back it out of the garage
3. Turn it off
4. Come out two days later and try to start it
- if it starts go back to step 1
5. Call Mazda roadside assistance
6. ......

:banghead:

Easy fix:

1. Start your 8
2. Back it out of the garage
3. Turn it off
4. Come out two days later and try to start it
- if it starts go back to step 1
5. Call Mazda roadside assistance
6. ......

:banghead:
haha, ouch! i think my 3 floodings (without having to call roadside) justify SOME type of fix. I'm not whining, but I do believe this is faulty design. Anyone who says flooded engine owners are just whiners have succumbed to the acceptance of shoddy workmanship.

Having been an industrial design major, I took classes on how to design items to their "breaking point." Which is why your vacuum cleaner will fail within 1-2 years because of some little plastic tab that just breaks off. If Mazda has a fix for this problem, they are aware of a "bug" that was not completely rectified upon beta testing. But our culture has come to accept these faults because they have been forced upon us.

One thing a car should do is start. It is not abnormal or abusive to be able to expect to move it from the garage to the driveway. Renesis or not, if it wasn't a fault of the design, MNAO would do nothing about it. Instead they are trying to rectify a design flaw.

Easy fix:

1. Start your 8
2. Back it out of the garage
3. Turn it off
4. Come out two days later and try to start it
- if it starts go back to step 1
5. Call Mazda roadside assistance
6. ......

:banghead:

That is also a pretty good idea to get free plugs when you are close the 30k mileage replacement. I bet.

haha, ouch! i think my 3 floodings (without having to call roadside) justify SOME type of fix. I'm not whining, but I do believe this is faulty design. Anyone who says flooded engine owners are just whiners have succumbed to the acceptance of shoddy workmanship.

Having been an industrial design major, I took classes on how to design items to their "breaking point." Which is why your vacuum cleaner will fail within 1-2 years because of some little plastic tab that just breaks off. If Mazda has a fix for this problem, they are aware of a "bug" that was not completely rectified upon beta testing. But our culture has come to accept these faults because they have been forced upon us.

One thing a car should do is start. It is not abnormal or abusive to be able to expect to move it from the garage to the driveway. Renesis or not, if it wasn't a fault of the design, MNAO would do nothing about it. Instead they are trying to rectify a design flaw. Oh yes, without a doubt!

Let me clarify one thing, and I'm glad you mentioned your three times that yours flooded... Those times that it flooded, there should have been some error codes recorded in the ECU memory. You tell them it flooded, they hook-up and see the fault codes and believe you and gve you the free battery, strater and plugs (theoretically, at least that is what I would be fighting my manager if neccessary to get). I myself however have no fault codes (yet!), so I would just be standing there telling the manager that I think he ought to give me this stuff because I know from this forum that it really really helps the good old flooding problem. Not much meat.

True though that one of the main functions of an automobile is to start. I think they ought to do a recall!

Plugs are supposed to be replaced @ 35k niles, based on schedule 2 maintenance plan.

Those times that it flooded, there should have been some error codes recorded in the ECU memory.
Ill let you know if this gets brought up or not, cuz my service appt isnt until next week (I don't know how often the ECU gets refreshed or if it stores it forever)

I think they ought to do a recall!
I actually think the way they are handling it is probably right. If you don't have any problems, they shouldn't have to replace it unless you are vigilant and trying to think ahead of the game. That being said, I HAVE done exactly what you shouldn't do (the garage to driveway for washing thing) which is what caused the flooding. Have you ever tried that? Maybe you are one of the lucky ones and your car just won't flood!

I also have constant brake squeal with the stock wheels. Luckily, my service mgr said they would help me out with that once we get back into nice weather and I get my stocks back on. Mebbe I just have a great sevice dept.

I only shut it down cold once, and that time, I re-started it so fast (cuz I realized what I had just done) that the tach needle didn't even have a chance to go to zero. hehe So, nope, I never shut it down cold, for this reason, of course.

The fault code stays in there for a long time. Not forever, but a pretty long time.

There's another brake pad composition for the front brake squeal problem, but there's another dozen or so threads on that topic. :) That's another freebie upon request / complaint from the owner (you). I didn't do that one, cuz for some odd reason, it's not a problem for me. There's a TSB on it too... http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/04-006-04-1369b.pdf

There's another brake pad composition for the front brake squeal problem, but there's another dozen or so threads on that topic. :) That's another freebie upon request / complaint from the owner (you). I didn't do that one, cuz for some odd reason, it's not a problem for me. There's a TSB on it too... http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/04-006-04-1369b.pdf
had that done already. also have new shims. neither solved the problem. nice thing is that my dealer isnt talking about turning my rotors, but replacing them. i guess some rotors just have this problem.... just like the flooding.

funny, the reason i got my 2004 8 with only 4K miles on it last march was because of the flooding. i guess the previous owner thought it was just a lemon and sold it. lucky for me! :ylsuper:

I actually think the way they are handling it is probably right. If you don't have any problems, they shouldn't have to replace it unless you are vigilant and trying to think ahead of the game.

Actually I (respectfully) disagree. Why should I be punished because I conscientiously followed their stupid rules about avoiding short trips. People who disregard the "rules" are rewarded with a free repair that appears to pretty much fix the problem. I am denied that repair and have to continue to avoid short trips which is particularly irritating since Mazda now agrees that it is not acceptable for the RX-8 to be so prone to flooding.

Doesn't seem right! (IMHO)

Actually I (respectfully) disagree. Why should I be punished because I conscientiously followed their stupid rules about avoiding short trips. People who disregard the "rules" are rewarded with a free repair that appears to pretty much fix the problem. I am denied that repair and have to continue to avoid short trips which is particularly irritating since Mazda now agrees that it is not acceptable for the RX-8 to be so prone to flooding.

Doesn't seem right! (IMHO)
i get yer point, i was just mentioning that all 8s are not prone to this problem. thats all. tho i dont want anyone to have to find out the hard way, which is why i included people who were vigilant (such as yerself).

the reality is, this should have never happened.

MSRECANT

I'm with you - it is both unfair and shortsighted for Mazda to have a "no complain -no fix" policy.

It is unfair because many RX-8 are still at high risk of flooding - sometimes in a not fault way - such as during servicing ....

It is shortsighted because each time a new customer is added to the "I Have Flooded" list - their rep will go down.

The cost of upgrading the current RX-8s vs the cost to Mazda in the long term is a no-brainer.

Recalls in other vehicles hav occurred where the problem was judged unsafe due to a no-start or no-drive situation. I'm surprised that this problem has not been judged as unsafe.

As I have said before - every owner should be assured of basic start and run performance in a modern car in the first five years.

I remain a Mazda fan - but wth a little reservation in the background. I hope to have my RX-8 for a long and good time/

The real pain is the starter.

The plugs get changed at 30 months/37.5K miles and one expects to have to replace batteries, sometime as early as within 2-3 years. So in a reasonable period of time these components get replaced through the normal course of ownership. However, the starter (which I am sure is not cheap) is usually kept for the life of the car.

I am just not up for paying for a new starter. If you care (which I believe most customers won't) there ought to be a way to get a warranty upgrade without having to flood your car.

MSRECANT:

It's the incertainity that's the main customer problem - of all my Mazdas the RX-8 is the one I'm most uncertain about the starting which is a little more than outladish IMHO.

From Mazda's point of view - the flooding has not gone away - with multiple ECU programs and now the battery-starter-plugs solution. Hopefully this one fix will stick.

Many customers are not going to replace the plugs at the recommended interval - when / if they have starting issues after - there will be bad vibes no matter what.

I enjoy my RX-8 - first saw it as a prototype at the Detroit motorshow four years ago - then as pre-production in 2003. Bought it in late 2003. BUT I do not enjoy the extra 180 mile round trips (and 'lost' time) to the dealer for multiple fixes.

BUT I do not enjoy the extra 180 mile round trips (and 'lost' time) to the dealer for multiple fixes.

My office is walking distance from my Mazda dealer. However I also do not enjoy the continual trips there for fixes.

At 40k I was having a greater number of floods and near floods so I asked the dealer to check the compression and install the new starter and plugs (previously plugs replaced at 27k after flooding). I had the work done Wednesday and afterwards I parked in my driveway then let it sit till cold. Then I started it and parked in the garage (did not rev to 3k before shutting down) and let it sit till today. This morning it was in the low 30s and it fired right up. Not the normal 3 seconds while I prayed "Please don't be flooded" but fired the second I turned the key. Previously this was the exact scenario that would flood the car. BTW, The mechanic said my compression was excellent

TheDosDog:

Glad to hear about your experience with the new fix. Time will tell

Have about 19000 miles on my 2 year old 2004/ Starting well after fix but have not challenged it with a cold short move. Perhaps after I get back from Detroit Auto Show - i will challenge it.

By the way my car is garaged - both of my floods were when parked at about 40 to 50. Most of my hard starts occurred with a cooled down car after a run.

Cool info. Mazda, are you reading this?

Mine flooded again today. No reason just wouldent start, was drivin pleanty of time befor shut down. I have 57k on the car. I just put new plugs in it 2.6k ago and wires. I could not figure out why it floods. I checked the compression to see and it pulled 82psi on all faces.

I have to say the FE is far harder to get unflooded then any of my other rx-7s.

Yeah, looking back, it flooded 11/28/04. That's aboit 55 days ago.

So, you have the new style plugs?

Do you have the new starter? New battery?

You're in a warm climate and it's been warm. Cold weather can't even be a contributor in your case. Must be a weak, battery? Was it sluggish? Lately, mine cranks like it doesn't want to, like it's being made to, you know what I mean? What they're saying here is that the new starter and stronger battery really spins that ring gear!

Mine flooded again today. No reason just wouldent start, was drivin pleanty of time befor shut down. I have 57k on the car. I just put new plugs in it 2.6k ago and wires. I could not figure out why it floods. I checked the compression to see and it pulled 82psi on all faces.

I have to say the FE is far harder to get unflooded then any of my other rx-7s.

That's 82psi for both rotors?... sounds like it's below the minimum specs, if test was performed acurately.

They replaced the battery when it flooded last time and plugs. So yes new style plugs. The batt was cranking like normal when I was unfolding first. But it died before I could finish the unflood :-/. No the starter is original but I am out of warranty 57k. I hooked up batt through cables and a charger and finished the unflood removed the plugs and all. Took a little ether to get it going. It was hard to unflood I had to actually get it to pop over with no fuel pump fuse in and then stick it in quickly or it would flood out again. That got it and some ether with fuse out start helped it turn over. I tested the alt after and it was putting out 13.7V.

demob05 - I would not doubt my ability. So yes correct reading on all faces.

Ooo, yeah, the RX-8 Service Manual says 120 psi standard, 98.6 psi minimum. There is a proceedure to follow though. For instance, the oil in there to aid in sealing the apex seals is pretty critical to good test results. And stuff... (etc.) Not to criticize your abilities. The very least, some ppl don't know...

Like I've been saying here over and over again: it's important to state the cranking rpms in order to know whether compression figures are within specs or not.
Iceblue, do you know what flash you're on? I would have your new battery re-checked also.

Okay,
I've read literally 300 replies to this flooding issue and I have to admit, it gives me pause. I'm looking to buy an 8 but now I'm starting to wonder (but thats a thread that had been beaten to death).

I imagine a scenerio when I loan my car to someone and have to give a 30 minute lecture (without scaring the hell out of them) about avoiding a flooding situation. But alas, I'll have to grapple with these decisions myself.

My questions?

1) Would it do any good to hedge my bets and immediately get hotter sparkplugs and a "more juice" battery??

2) If by some misfortune, I do flood the machine and manage to get it cranked again (following all the great advice here), do I need to still run it down to the Mazda dealership for diagnostics, oil change, etc, etc.....????

Thanx to everyone, this thread has been very enlightening. And for what its worth, I'm gonna follow RotaryGod's advice to the letter.......................

Okay,
I've read literally 300 replies to this flooding issue and I have to admit, it gives me pause. I'm looking to buy an 8 but now I'm starting to wonder (but thats a thread that had been beaten to death).

I imagine a scenerio when I loan my car to someone and have to give a 30 minute lecture (without scaring the hell out of them) about avoiding a flooding situation. But alas, I'll have to grapple with these decisions myself.

My questions?

1) Would it do any good to hedge my bets and immediately get hotter sparkplugs and a "more juice" battery??

2) If by some misfortune, I do flood the machine and manage to get it cranked again (following all the great advice here), do I need to still run it down to the Mazda dealership for diagnostics, oil change, etc, etc.....????

Thanx to everyone, this thread has been very enlightening. And for what its worth, I'm gonna follow RotaryGod's advice to the letter.......................

1) Would it do any good to hedge my bets and immediately get hotter sparkplugs and a "more juice" battery??

2) If by some misfortune, I do flood the machine and manage to get it cranked again (following all the great advice here), do I need to still run it down to the Mazda dealership for diagnostics, oil change, etc, etc.....????


1. They can only help, but it doesn't guarantee a fix. Not sure yet that even with the new starter we have a true fix (looks possible though). You still need to avoid short trips.

2. Always take it to the Mazda dealer after a flood. They check for CAT damage and they should make sure you have the latest PCM update, battery, plugs and starter.

If you do decide to buy a used one, yes, get the new plugs, a new high amp battery and the new starter if possible. Make sure the car has the latest computer flash update. The chance of a flood at that point would be slim to none. You could even loan it to your grandmother. :)






Okay,
I've read literally 300 replies to this flooding issue and I have to admit, it gives me pause. I'm looking to buy an 8 but now I'm starting to wonder (but thats a thread that had been beaten to death).

I imagine a scenerio when I loan my car to someone and have to give a 30 minute lecture (without scaring the hell out of them) about avoiding a flooding situation. But alas, I'll have to grapple with these decisions myself.

My questions?

1) Would it do any good to hedge my bets and immediately get hotter sparkplugs and a "more juice" battery??

2) If by some misfortune, I do flood the machine and manage to get it cranked again (following all the great advice here), do I need to still run it down to the Mazda dealership for diagnostics, oil change, etc, etc.....????

Thanx to everyone, this thread has been very enlightening. And for what its
worth, I'm gonna follow RotaryGod's advice to the letter.......................

I would like to see a new poll on this issue. These numbers do not represent an accurate, and up to date view of the situation. This poll includes all the early cars, with early flashes, cheap batteries, low rpm starters and a somewhat uninformed owners group. Pick a current date, say last summer sometime, include only the folks with a reasonably current flash and then do the poll. The starter and Plugs issue may skew the numbers a bit but no where near as much as the number of different flashes that this vehicle has had. There is a huge difference between the 8 of August 03 and the 8 of today. An more accurate poll might help potential buyers instead of scaring them away.

If you start the new poll RG I'd participate and beg others to do the same. We would also expect the moderators to understand the purpose of said thread.
Amen!

I imagine a scenerio when I loan my car to someone.......................
If you envision loaning your car to someone, you should not purchase an RX-8. They will not appreciate the importance of your 30-minute instructions.

Make sure the car has the latest computer flash update. The chance of a flood at that point would be slim to none.
i have R flash and mine still flooded...and not because of a short trip either. it just did.

i have R flash and mine still flooded...and not because of a short trip either. it just did.
Were all the other things I mentioned (Which you neglected to quote) also taken care of? Did you have the new plugs and starter?

no, im going in for service tomorrow. i have stock everything under the hood. mines an 04 with a build date of 06/03.

sorry if i neglected to quote your entire post, i did not realize you were saying ALL of the items needed to be done for the flooding not to occur.

IMHO, it wouldn't be impossible but rather much closer to the likelihood of your typical piston engine. The main cause is the general design (Geometry, rotor speed, moving chambers trying to almost blow out the flame etc; I could go on). The other things outside of design (And the enhancements being currently offered by Mazda to counter these flaws) that can still lead to flooding would be a current draw running your improved battery charge down, poor state of tune e.g. your new plugs being left in long enough to become worn and in-effective and last but not least compression or lack thereof.
So again, the chances of flooding with proper cranking speed and better spark plugs is greatly reduced. I wouldn't even bother with the fear of moving it short distances while I would recommend a battery tender for those that don't drive their 8s frequently.
Happy motoring (Or rather rotoring).

got the new starter and plugs. i guess the battery had already been replaced (i bought her used so i dint know). WOW! what a difference!! no rar rar rar before turning over. she purrs like a kitten now!!!

You can add me to the list of rx8's that have been flooded. I did get new plugs, starter, and a battery when they finished working on it.

I am going to buy another compression tester and see. I have had it for a wile and those numbers are just to low for me to believe. So far no more flooding but it did choke once when it didn’t pop over.

Just got back from the dealer. I have been having problems with slow cranking if the car sits for a week or two. The service writer got me the TSB upgrade (plugs, battery and starter), although I was due plugs anyway for the 30 months service.

Boy, the new battery/starter cranks like a champ.

According to my mechanic buddies at Country Mazda in Huntington, LI, NY, there have been no cars flooded after the installation of the new starter, larger battery, the new style plugs and the latest flash. Anyone hear the same where you are?

05WHITERX8 reported similar experiences (http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1231038&postcount=16) where he works. Only one flood and that was short trip. I have seen one post on another forum where someone flooded an RX8 with all mods, but the owner was able to use the dechoke procedure to get it started again.

Yep, happened to me this past weekend for the first time. I've had my (used) '04 for 8 months now (AT version). The fun part? I was 320 miles from home on a weekend getaway when it happened. It was about 7am in the morning when I started it to move the car out of the way to get to my friends vehicle. It was cold (I'd say 45 deg), so I let it warm up for about 5 minutes before shutting it off. That night when i came back, sure enough it wouldn't start. Did the deflooding procedures--wouldn't work. Here I am, supposed to be drivng back home to work on Monday, and now I've got to get it towed to the nearest Mazda dealership (which was an hour away). The dealership (Craine in Little Rock, AR) was real good at getting me back on the road quickly, and upgraded my starter, battery, and plugs. It was still very frustrating though. Everyone at work is getting a good chuckle at me this morning on my "new" RX-8 leaving me stranded like that. And now when the car turns over, it's taking longer to start (flooding leftovers?), scarring me actually.

One thing else.. While waiting on the car to get fixed, I was talked to one of the salesmen, and he starts saying, "You know how the car revs when you first start it?" I'm like, hu? He gets into a one (standard), and the car revs like 3 or 4 times on it's own when it starts up. I'm like, "My car doesn't do that." "Oh, you have an automatic, it won't, you need to do that yourself then." He said it didn't matter that it was reving on a cold engine, because of the oil injection. So, what the hell is that all about?

shouldn't be flooding leftovers. When you flood an engine you "foul" the plugs, so installing new plugs should have remedied the situation.

Did they flash your PCM as well? They should have.

If you really got the new starter, it should sound very, very different. Close to a motorcycle starter.

I got the TSB last weekend and my car now starts on the first crank - every time.

and the car revs like 3 or 4 times on it's own when it starts up I have a standard and mine doesn't do that. It revs at startup to about 3k, then settles to 2, then eventually idles at 1.

The dealership (Craine in Little Rock, AR) was real good at getting me back on the road quickly, and upgraded my starter, battery, and plugs. It was still very frustrating though. Everyone at work is getting a good chuckle at me this morning on my "new" RX-8 leaving me stranded like that. And now when the car turns over, it's taking longer to start (flooding leftovers?), scarring me actually.

I would take it back to your regular dealer and check on the issue about taking longer to start up. Most reports (and my personal experience) is that after the new battery/starter the engine both cranks much faster and starts quicker. I have an MT so I can't speak first hand about an automatic, but I can't believe it would be different.

chr1s: I already had the latest PCM updates from a previous recall service. As for the multiple revs upon startup, I'm clueless on that one myself. But I didn't witness it's occurence. I have no idea how/if i should include this in my own habits to ward off potential flooding.

mcrecant: It does turn over now faster, and sounds different, but it's taking about 2-3 seconds to start. Obviously that's not a time impact on my life, but it does seem long for an engine to start.

I have to go out of town again this weekend on a 250 mile trip. Let's hope this crap doesn't happen again.

but it's taking about 2-3 seconds to start. Obviously that's not a time impact on my life, but it does seem long for an engine to start. If it's actually 2 or 3 seconds thats definately a long time. Like I said in my previous post it starts right away for me.

It's probably nothing, but are you letting the fuel pump spool up? I do this every time before I turn the car over.

YWhile waiting on the car to get fixed, I was talked to one of the salesmen, and he starts saying, "You know how the car revs when you first start it?" I'm like, hu? He gets into a one (standard), and the car revs like 3 or 4 times on it's own when it starts up. I'm like, "My car doesn't do that." "Oh, you have an automatic, it won't, you need to do that yourself then." He said it didn't matter that it was reving on a cold engine, because of the oil injection. So, what the hell is that all about?

Mine also does what CHR1S describes. Not sure what the salesman was talking about.Also, IMHO, in general I would not touch the gas pedal until the engine has started and the car has stabilized at idle.

It just happened again, though I was able to get it started after doing the deflooding procedure twice. This was after a 15min drive, engine was plenty warm. Now I have a check-engine light. Car is going into a local dealership tomorrow morning. This is not fun.

Hopefully they will get it all taken care of and they had just forgotten to do something. Since I had the new plugs and starter I have had zero problems and a super fast crank.

Hi All-
New to this forum. I have a 04 RX8, and have experienced flooding problems. The first time, my wife was backing the car out or the garage and stalled it. Wouldn't start, even after the de-choking procedure. Flatbed to the dealer, replaced plugs and re-flashed.

Haven't really been driving the car a lot, winter in CT and all. Did have a triclke charger on the battery. The car's been sitting for about a month. Tried to start it this morning, and nothing. Cranked over fine, but just wouldn't start. I'm afraid I'm going to have to get it towed again to the dealer.

I've noticed a couple people here have had a new battery and starter installed. Is this something that the dealer will do under warranty? Do I have to request this?

thanks!

Before you have it towed - fully charge battery then foot to floor and crank it like crazy - perhaps 20 to 30 seconds at a time with 10 second pauses. Leave it floored between cranking periods. If it starts - off gas pedal and try to maintain 2000 to 3000 rpms. LOTS OF SMOKE !!! Then a good run after warming up - then off to dealer for "Cold Start Repair" - new plugs / battery (May be pro-rated) / starter / latest flash.

Just my 2 cents

Thanks GT. I did the foot to floor thing, but not for as long as you mentioned. Anyway, it's on it's way to the dealership on a flatbed as I write!

I spoke with a tech a the dealership who said that it depends on the VIN number as to whether they'll cover the new starter/bigger battery.

Does anyone know how they decide whether it's covered or not??

It's never cranked over with much authority. i'm hoping I'll get it taken care of under warranty.....

I am really interested as to

Does anybody that lives in a more tropical climate (i.e. Miami, LA, South Texas, Puerto Rico) experince this issue?

It sounds like everyone that has had this problem is in cold weather, and it is February. Im picking up my 8 tomorrow, Ill be sure to not shut it off cold, and to rev to 4K before shut off... but Im still wondering if possibly living in a place where it NEVER gets below 60 would help.
Has anyone flooded their engine in the summer heat? Would an already warm engine (say 85 degreese outside) flood?
God, now Im gunna even more nerotic about my new car...
Also, I have a suggestion... why not install a turbo timer on your car, regardless of if u have FI or not... if you engine is always running for 2 or 3 mins after shutdown, wouldnt that pretty much kill any chances of u flooding it, unless u stall and restart?

here's the link to the TSB

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf

It has all the VIn and build dates etc.

Good Luck

Does anyone know how they decide whether it's covered or not?? The latest TSB states ANY 2004 / 2005 VIN.

Here's a link to the TSB / Recall list (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/bulletins_index.html)

Here's the PDF link to the specific "no start" TSB (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf)

SoFL_RX8:

In general stall and restart is not the problem. It's moving it a short distance cold then shutting off and leaving for a while - perhaps overnight. The flood occurs when the re-start injects more fuel into the engine which still has leftover fuel in it from the previous short cold move. Rotary engines unlike piston engines do not clear fuel out when simply standing. Waiting for the flood to clear does not work with rotary engines.

Mazda has the ECU inject no fuel at start if the pedal is floored - thus the de-flooding procedure which first clears the extra fuel by cranking with the pedal floored then re-starts the second time with the pedal free.

When my car flooded (twice), I was able to clear the major flooding by repeated cranking periods with the pedal floored. Then LOTS OF SMOKE as the gas was cleared from the exhaust system.

Care during short moves - along with the new plugs / starter / battery / flash should help greatly. That along with a basic understanding of the issue should minimize this issue. In the early RX-7s - you pull the fuse to the fuel pump then crank it clear before re-starting a flooded car. Did that recently when my 1988 RX-7 convertible flooded. That's two floods for the RX-8 and two floods in RX-7s in more than a decade of ownership. All cleared at home - luckily.

IMHO a little understanding of the basics of the issue helps a lot. Perhaps Mazda should detail it a little more in their deflooding instructions.

chr1s and GT-

Thanks for the information. It's exactly what I needed!

Well, all was well for a while after the second flooding and dead battery that came with it. Mazda replaced the battery with a higher capacity one under the bulletin. Of course, I was without the car for the day. Why does it always happen on the morning of an important meeting?

Anyway, the new battery is noticeably stronger and the car has been cranking nicely, until last Thursday (of course I had to be in Rhode Island for a meeting that morning). Cranked the car and could tell by the sound it was flooded. For no reason. The last time I drove was 20 minutes home from work. The difference was that this time, the battery had enough capacity to use the flooded start procedure. I went through it probably 25 times - first crank with the pedal on the floor, then pedal released. After about 45 minutes it started to have sounds of sputtering - like it was trying to start. About 8 more rounds did the trick.

I was late and not happy but at least the car didn't' have to be towed.

Dave

Dave,
As I've asked many others here, what about a computer re-flash, sparkplugs and starter? What year is your car and is it auto or manual? If the dealer has offered less than they are authorized to do to prevent future floods that would be a real shame.

You know you can just rev the engine to 4-5k, then shut the car off and not have it flood, even when the engine is still cold, right?

be careful about how high an rpm you have on this engine before you switch it off. 3 K probably no problem but 5K and you are starting to run the risk of blowing oil back into your airway- just get the new starter ,plugs, battery and the latest flash
olddragger

be careful about how high an rpm you have on this engine before you switch it off. 3 K probably no problem but 5K and you are starting to run the risk of blowing oil back into your airway- just get the new starter ,plugs, battery and the latest flash
olddragger
Plus 5 grand on cold oil isn't very smart either (Bearings just don't seem to like that).

An update on my recent flooding experience and subsequent hard-starts thereafter... the dealer found a loose crank sensor, and corrected that. Ever since then, it's been starting right up. This may have been what led to my original flooding to begin with. Either way, it appears that I'm back to normal now, let's hope it stays that way.

An update on my recent flooding experience and subsequent hard-starts thereafter... the dealer found a loose crank sensor, and corrected that. Ever since then, it's been starting right up. This may have been what led to my original flooding to begin with. Either way, it appears that I'm back to normal now, let's hope it stays that way.

That sounds reasonable. You floods weren't the typical "shut the engine off cold", which is what the TSB is designed to address. Glad to hear it is fixed.

Dave,
As I've asked many others here, what about a computer re-flash, sparkplugs and starter? What year is your car and is it auto or manual? If the dealer has offered less than they are authorized to do to prevent future floods that would be a real shame.

M flash, new battery, starter and plugs at the last towed-in flood repair. It's a 2004 - build date was March of 04 if I remember right.... manual, touring package (Nordic Green, not that it matters :-) ) I think they've done what they are supposed to. At least this time the battery was strong enough to get it started.

Dave

Call me stupid in all this but I am really lost, I read everywhere about the washer fluid trick for the flooded engine...... now this is where im stupid i guess, after you inject the washer fluid, do you unplug anything before you try to crank it? i.e. spark plugs, sensors, etc.... :mad:
Now to be curious, I am really new as a rx8 owner!!!!!! what is N flash, M flash and all thoses expressions????? :confused:

Next question is......... should i just get rid of this car before i get attached??
(btw.. i have automatic)

thank you
DEEdee

should i just get rid of this car before i get attached?? (btw.. i have automatic)

No, not because of reliability. The flooding issue appears to be taken car of by the following:

- Updated Engine Control Unit firmware often referred to as an ECU or PCM flash. The exact level (M, N, etc) doesn't matter, you just want them to update you car to the latest level. If you have had all the RX-8 recalls done then this has been done.

- 640 CCA battery. Comes standard on all RX-8s built after 6/1/2004.

- Upgraded starter. Comes standard on all RX-8s built after 12/1/2004.

- Improved leading spark plugs. Comes standard on all RX-8s built after 3/22/2005.

If you have any starting problem at all, ask your dealer for any/all applicable updates. This is a much better solution that rigging your engine so you can pump windshield washer fluid into the combustion chamber. If you flood, rather than fixing it yourself, have it towed to the dealer (at Mazda expense) and have the above improvements installed (at Mazda expense).

Even with the updates, it is still a good practice to avoid short trips.

However, if your car is out of warranty (> 50K miles) and the above is not done then it will cost you. That may be a reason to get another car. Also, the AT does have less power than the manual or the new 2006/2007 ATs, so if power is your thing than you may want to move to another vehicle.

Also, the AT does have less power than the manual or the new 2006/2007 ATs, so if power is your thing than you may want to move to another vehicle.

DEEdeej, your AT does have more torque than the other cars msrecant mentioned, and all the cool people know that torque is the most important thing. Also, you can talk on the cell phone in your AT, shift gears and wink at passer's by, all at the same time, something the manual owner's can't do, at least not gracefully. Also, you've got those awesome paddle shifters... ahhh, paddle shifters...

My advice is to go ahead and get attached to your AT; I've had none of the upgrades, flooded once, and love my car each and every time I drive it.

(BTW, msrecant, another nice post...)

I put a high tourque starter with performance spark plugs on it after mine did it the SECOND time.. And I haven't had another problem with it.

...(BTW, msrecant, another nice post...)Yeah, msrecant seems to be our resident answer man.:ylsuper: I've been keeping up with all this and haven't felt the urge to reply to anything, msrecant already answered the questions correctly. Keep it up. :)

your AT does have more torque than the other cars msrecant mentioned, and all the cool people know that torque is the most important thing.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as an AT bigot, particularly since I have never driven one. Automatic RX-8s are cool!

Had my first flood today. Bought the car July 2004 and have never had a no start condition (though once it took about 15 seconds to start). On Saturday, I had to move the car a short distance, so that may be the culprit. The car was still warm (or so I thought), when I did that. Plus, I thought that the flooding issue wasn't applicable because I have the M flash. I was wrong.

This morning (about 50 degrees outside), the car wouldn't start. After cranking it for a while, the battery got drained. So I replaced it with an Interstate MT-35. Now it cranks fine, but still wouldn't start. Tried the hold the gas pedal down trick. It didn't work. Now the car is being towed to the dealer.

Oh well, I guess I'll have them fix the fuel tank recall and recharge the A/C also. Still sucks, of course. If I wanted a car that would periodically have to be towed to the dealer because it won't start, I would have bought a 20-year old K car, not a brand-new sports car.

Since it was warm, I'm assuming that your car had been driven on that same day that you moved it a short distance in your driveway... was it several hours or minutes before that short driveway move??

My car has everything up to date and I had to have it towed last night. I did move it a short distance in cold weather but I also did the throttle blip to 3000 and shut it off at 1500RPM but that didn't seem to matter. This is my first flooding. :mad: I thought with all the updates and being careful when I shut it down that it would be OK. It had been starting a little hard sometimes lately but the plugs really aren't that old.

My car has everything up to date and I had to have it towed last night. I did move it a short distance in cold weather but I also did the throttle blip to 3000 and shut it off at 1500RPM but that didn't seem to matter. This is my first flooding. :mad: I thought with all the updates and being careful when I shut it down that it would be OK. It had been starting a little hard sometimes lately but the plugs really aren't that old.

This is the third report I have found of a car with new battery/plugs/starter where it flooded. In the other two cases the owner was able to use the dechoke procedure to start the car. A couple of questions:

1. Is you RX-8 a manual or automatic.

2. Before shutting off, did you let the engine warm up at all? (reach normal temp or for 5 minutes)

3. Did you hold the engine at 3000 RPM for 10 seconds or just blip it up to 3000 brfore shutoff?

1. Is you RX-8 a manual or automatic.

2. Before shutting off, did you let the engine warm up at all? (reach normal temp or for 5 minutes)

3. Did you hold the engine at 3000 RPM for 10 seconds or just blip it up to 3000 brfore shutoff?

1. Manual
2. No, it was a cold morning (10 deg F) and I had to get the car out of the way for a delivery.
3. Maybe 2 sec at 3000 to make sure when I let the RPM drop I wasn't starting at an RPM where the secondary ports were open. Turned the key off while the RPMS were falling.

The dealer was going to try to squeeze it in today to see if he could come up with a root cause other than it is an RX-8 and they sometimes flood.

The tow truck driver reported that he had just towed an identical car in the neighboring town last week. Surprising because I NEVER see any others on the road around here.

Since it was warm, I'm assuming that your car had been driven on that same day that you moved it a short distance in your driveway... was it several hours or minutes before that short driveway move??

Actually, now that I think about it, I don't remember if I moved the car that day or not. I remember going out on Saturday night, but I don't think I used the car at all on Sunday. On Monday, the car stalled as I was backing out of the driveway and it wouldn't start again and appears to have all the symptoms of the flood.

It's a 2004 with about 22,000 miles on it. Manual tranny.

MX6_2_RX8

Thanks for the info! There have been several other documented floods NOT caused by the short trip but rather by some other problem. Let us know what the dealer says.

^ Doesn't that excessive cranking wear down the starter and/or battery?

^ Yes. I believe one should engage the starter for no more than 10 seconds at a time, then let it rest for 10 seconds. Please advise if my numbers are off.

I've found the dechocking procedure can be done better than Mazda recommends.

Hold down the gas all the way for 10 to 15 seconds.

Then attempt to start the car like normal, when you hear it fire at all, give it a light blip of throttle. If it fires again, give it another quick blip. After about 10 seconds of this you should be getting it to fire fairly quickly and you can go to solid throttle in/out pulses until it catches.

If that doesn't work, crank it with the gas all the way down for longer. I had to crank one for over 30 seconds one time before it would fire.

I tried Mazda's method before I had it towed with no luck. In your method step 1; are you cranking during the 10-15 seconds or just holding the throttle down? In my case it never attemped to fire, not even a little.

My next question is more of a general question, if holding the pedal to the floor keeps the injectors from firing, would it be OK to so that EVERY start just to make sure it burned off any excess fuel? To take that a step further, shouldn't the body computer do that every start?

...
3. Maybe 2 sec at 3000 to make sure when I let the RPM drop I wasn't starting at an RPM where the secondary ports were open. Turned the key off while the RPMS were falling.
...Maybe this is nothing, maybe I'm wrong. I'm not sure, are you supposed to turn off the ignition while the engine is still dropping? I thought you were supposed to let it go back down to idle and stabilize for a second or two, then turn it off. Am I right? No? Does it matter? :confused:

Maybe this is nothing, maybe I'm wrong. I'm not sure, are you supposed to turn off the ignition while the engine is still dropping? I thought you were supposed to let it go back down to idle and stabilize for a second or two, then turn it off. Am I right? No? Does it matter? :confused:
Seems to be a debate over Mazda's instructions and owner's preference.

Maybe this is nothing, maybe I'm wrong. I'm not sure, are you supposed to turn off the ignition while the engine is still dropping? I thought you were supposed to let it go back down to idle and stabilize for a second or two, then turn it off. Am I right? No? Does it matter? :confused:

The Mazda recommended procedure for cold engine shut down is:

- let the car warm to normal operating temp or for 5 minutes
- rev to 3K for 10 seconds
- let go back to idle
- shut off.

There is extended debate on this forum as to whether to shut off while the engine is winding down from 3K. Do a SEARCH, if you are interested in details.

The Mazda recommended procedure for cold engine shut down is:

- let the car warm to normal operating temp or for 5 minutes
- rev to 3K for 10 seconds
- let go back to idle
- shut off.

There is extended debate on this forum as to whether to shut off while the engine is winding down from 3K. Do a SEARCH, if you are interested in details.

Seems that it will hard to know the 'best' way to do it this BUT seems to me the idea is simply blow out the extra fuel for about 10 seconds for ALL short moves even if the engine is at operating temperature or just a little warm.

May be that even with the upgrades - it would be best of have a 'flush-out' with ALL short moves even when the engine is hot. If fuel is left in the engine - the engine will cool and being a rotary it will not clear with time - thus setting up a possible flood or hard start.

Back to basics - flush out if in doubt.

end up calling mazda dealer, the salesman told me that if anyone that bought their 8 in 2004 should call up mazda to check if their car has got the newest updates. And he said they weren't have any problems with the 8s after the updates... can anyone confirm?

end up calling mazda dealer, the salesman told me that if anyone that bought their 8 in 2004 should call up mazda to check if their car has got the newest updates. And he said they weren't have any problems with the 8s after the updates... can anyone confirm?

He is partially correct.

Yes, you should check with your Mazda service department to confirm that all RECALLS and Mandatory Campaigns have been done to your vehicle. However, this does not include problems addressed by Service Bulletins. Those repairs are usually only done if you experience the actual problem. Unfortunately the flooding issues are addressed under a Service Bulletin so some dealers will only do the repair if you have flooded your car or at least have some form of starting problem. However, there are dealers who will execute the Service Bulletin just for the asking. You can get a copy of the bulletin at http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf .

The flooding updates definitely improve things greatly but so far they have NOT been proven to be a 100% fix. Check out http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=80545 for a discussion of problems after having the updates.

Msrecant, thanks alot man you are great help. =D I'm going to be getting a rx8 soon its my cousins and he moved out of country.. 2004 titanium grey with 10k km... so its very new.. because its a 2004 so i'm kinda worried... any sugguestions? Again thanks for the great help.

I got my car back and it was a confirmed flood with all of the updates. They claimed that I was not running the latest flash (even though I thought I was on ‘P’, I've lost track) and that the flash further addressed the flooding issue. The replaced the leading plugs that were already the new style but looked like crap anyway. The plugs probably only had 10K miles on them and I was starting to experience hard starts before the flooding incident. They begrudgingly replaced the plugs under warranty after I walked through the TSB with them. The service interval for the plugs is 60K miles but I think every other oil change might be more like it.

Here’s the ironic part, the overly friendly service manager and I talk about shutting it off cold. You should never do that blah blah blah, yeah, I know blah blah blah… And he tells me it is just being washed and they will bring it around. They bring it around, shut it off stone cold and hand me the keys. Probably the second cold shut down in a row.

man this flooding problem really bugs the sh|t outta me... i duno if i wanna get the car now... but i love the goddamn car so much... sighh

Msrecant, thanks alot man you are great help. =D I'm going to be getting a rx8 soon its my cousins and he moved out of country.. 2004 titanium grey with 10k km... so its very new.. because its a 2004 so i'm kinda worried... any sugguestions? Again thanks for the great help.

Actually it is not a big deal. A 2004 is fine as long as its under warranty. When you get it call the service department, give them your VIN and they will tell you whether all the recalls/campaigns have been done and, if not, get an appointment to have the work done. Then if you have any additional problems (which you probably won't) the repair will be under warranty. The site http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/bulletins_index.html lists the current Service Bulletins, but it is unlikely that any RX-8 will have all these problems. I have had maybe 2 or 3 in 30 months.

In terms of flooding, most RX-8s never flood to begin with. Part of that is the owners are careful and part of that is some RX-8s appear to not be flood-prone. However, if you want to be sure, just make sure you never cut the car off with the engine cold. Even if it does flood, Mazda will tow and upgrade your battery/starter/plugs under warranty. Then it will be even more unlikely that you will have an un-recoverable flood.

The plugs probably only had 10K miles on them and I was starting to experience hard starts before the flooding incident.

Sounds like you may have another underlying problem. If you get the hard starting again you need to take it in an chew on them to "fix" it. GHOSTRIDR posted they ultimately found a loose crank sensor causing his hard starts. My impression is that a "normal" RX-8, particularly with the upgrades, starts up quickly and reliably.

Once again, thank you

Actually it is not a big deal. A 2004 is fine as long as its under warranty. When you get it call the service department, give them your VIN and they will tell you whether all the recalls/campaigns have been done and, if not, get an appointment to have the work done. Then if you have any additional problems (which you probably won't) the repair will be under warranty. The site http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/bulletins_index.html lists the current Service Bulletins, but it is unlikely that any RX-8 will have all these problems. I have had maybe 2 or 3 in 30 months.

In terms of flooding, most RX-8s never flood to begin with. Part of that is the owners are careful and part of that is some RX-8s appear to not be flood-prone. However, if you want to be sure, just make sure you never cut the car off with the engine cold. Even if it does flood, Mazda will tow and upgrade your battery/starter/plugs under warranty. Then it will be even more unlikely that you will have an un-recoverable flood.

Sounds like you may have another underlying problem. If you get the hard starting again you need to take it in an chew on them to "fix" it. GHOSTRIDR posted they ultimately found a loose crank sensor causing his hard starts. My impression is that a "normal" RX-8, particularly with the upgrades, starts up quickly and reliably.

Could be. It runs fine other than that. It actually starts fine now. Even with the old plugs it would start good sometimes and hard others.

Nice job collecting data on the flooding/updating issue.

Yes I turned the car off after a couple of minutes of idling but I didn't rev it up before shutdown. Oh well several hours later the car was towed to the dealer with a flooded motor. It was the third RX-8 of the day, Sunday, he towed to the dealer for the flooding situation.
Monday after a breif visit to the dealer, Delray Mazda, I'm told it will be at least 3 days until they can fix it. According to the service rep Parts are becoming scarce. I don't know which ones, could be the starter or battery he didn't say. I wasn't to happy to hear that . With a known problem like this, mazda should have a warehouse full of parts ready to go.

Andy P.

I'm thinking of asking for the battery, spark plugs and starter at my next oil change on my '04. When they tell me -- as I am sure they will -- "no," then I am going to have them do the work on my dime. Then I am going to submit the bill to Mazda NA, and see what happens. I'm going to be traveling quite a lot this Spring, and a flood far from home would be a nightmare, although I think it very unlikely.

As my warranty period approaches the issue becomes more important. Anyone have a sense of what the charge will be?

I'm thinking of asking for the battery, spark plugs and starter at my next oil change on my '04; when they tell me -- as I am sure they will -- "no", then I am going to have them do the work on my dime. (I'm going to be traveling quite a lot this Spring, and a flood far from home would be a nightmare.) Then I am going to submit the bill to Mazda NA, and see what happens.

As my warranty period approaches the issue becomes more important. Anyone have a sense of what the charge will be?
If you are willing to go through all that trouble, you may want to consider coming down here to my dealer. They are awesome!! And John (the service manager) already knows about treating all of us RX-8 EVOLV peeps well! You should at least give him a call.

I'm going in to see him this week to ask for some help with my stripped locking lug/key. I'll be happy to ask him what he could do for you if you made the trip ...

I'm thinking of asking for the battery, spark plugs and starter at my next oil change on my '04. When they tell me -- as I am sure they will -- "no," then I am going to have them do the work on my dime. Then I am going to submit the bill to Mazda NA, and see what happens. I'm going to be traveling quite a lot this Spring, and a flood far from home would be a nightmare, although I think it very unlikely.

I would suggest you contact your dealer using the premise that your previous flood repair was "incomplete" based on the latest service bulletin. If they say "no" I would then call the 800 number and make a similar request: your car has been shown to be in the flood-prone category, you have had one partial repair and now wish to get all updates appropriate for your VIN. I suspect MNAO will authorize it.

Once you have spent the money, it will harder to get a refund. I suspect you and I pay retail for service hours and MNAO pays a lower rate.

OK, so I joined the flooding club a few weeks ago even with the updates (previous posts in this thread). The car seemed to start hard sometimes before it flooded. The dealer replaced the spark plugs upgraded it to the latest flash and sent me on my way. Ever since I got it back it still seems to “start hard” meaning that it cranks for 2-3 seconds before it even tries to catch.
QUESTION: Does the latest flash cut the fuel for the first few seconds of cranking to avoid adding more fuel to a flooded engine? If so I won’t worry about it but if not I think I am probably just waiting to get towed back to the dealer in the near future.

My understanding is as follows, perhaps someone can add more:

1. The PCM changes that address flooding were done back in March 2004 and that PCM updates since then address other issues.

2. I have heard (second hand) that the PCM change included a strategy where the engine tracks whether it fully warmed up before the last shut off, and if it did not, less fuel is used during the starting process. If the engine did warm up fully, a normal starting sequence is used.

PoLaK, in a post from last year (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=50119), talks about the M flash not delivering fuel for 3 seconds if the engine is cold. This doesn't match my experience but would make sense if the 3 second shutoff was only done if the engine was last shutoff without a full warmup.

Regardless, since the battery/starter/plug update on my car I would say that it starts almost instantaniously (less than a second) in moderate temperatures (above 40 degrees) even when started for the first time in the morning. Many people have posted similar experiences with the upgrades. You may want to ask to start a new RX-8 on the dealer lot to get a first hand comparison.

So what flash are we on now? I thought we passed M (N?) a while ago.

It seems to do it even when the engine is warm. Without any new information I guess I will just drive it and make sure not to shut it down cold.

Depends on the year and model of your RX-8. Go to the link below and check out the table on p.13. For example, for a 2004 M/T the latest flash is "R". Use that correlation to figure out the current level for your car. In any case, if they flashed your PCM using an updated WDS (tool used to install the flash), the PCM would be up to date.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf

It seems to do it even when the engine is warm.

If you have had the Thermal Damage Recall then you are on the latest and greatest PCM level.

I believe that regardless of flash level (M or above), that you are experiencing behavior that is different than most RX-8 owners and that it is worthwhile to have it looked into. Warm engines typically don't take 3 seconds of cranking to turn over. Particularly since you have all the latest upgrades.

Just joined the flooding club! YAY! NOT! 2004 8, started it yesterday and pulled it into the garage and with out thinking shut it right off. DOH!! I am F'ing pissed. Tried the "de-flooding" procedure, it was a no go. Now I have to waist my time getting the damn thing towed. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Just joined the flooding club! YAY! NOT! 2004 8, started it yesterday and pulled it into the garage and with out thinking shut it right off. DOH!! I am F'ing pissed. Tried the "de-flooding" procedure, it was a no go. Now I have to waist my time getting the damn thing towed. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

I suggest you have Gort negotiate the repair with your dealership. :D:

I'm thinking of asking for the battery, spark plugs and starter at my next oil change on my '04. When they tell me -- as I am sure they will -- "no," then I am going to have them do the work on my dime. Then I am going to submit the bill to Mazda NA, and see what happens. I'm going to be traveling quite a lot this Spring, and a flood far from home would be a nightmare, although I think it very unlikely.

As my warranty period approaches the issue becomes more important. Anyone have a sense of what the charge will be?

An update... and a happy surprise. I asked my dealer what the cost would be, and he said Mazda will do the work no charge, so long as the customer requests it. This seems like big news to me. I'm going to schedule the work for next week. Color me happy! :)

An update... and a happy surprise. I asked my dealer what the cost would be, and he said Mazda will do the work no charge, so long as the customer requests it. This seems like big news to me. I'm going to schedule the work for next week. Color me happy! :)


Great news. You need to post this as a new thread in the DISCUSSIONS so that everyone is aware of it.

My personal opinion is that this has always been the Mazda USA policy.

What's with the original battery? My car sat in the garage for I dunno, maybe a week? This morning I fired it up. It started ok alrighty, but it surely did crank VERY slugishly. Before I could get concerned about that, it fired up. Darn battery!!! Mine is one of the first August '03. 2 1/2 years might be not too bad for a battery life I guess, but still, my car has only about 12,500 miles on it so far, it all looks so darn nice 'n' new still. For the battery to be old & in need of replacement just doesn't seem right... eh...

Great news. You need to post this as a new thread in the DISCUSSIONS so that everyone is aware of it.


It's such good news, I'm reluctant to post it, at least beyond this thread. Perhaps I will feel more confident about it after I see the new battery, starter and plugs installed, and have the $0.0 invoice in hand.

Honesty, it seems very generous. I've used this battery, plugs and starter since late '03, and the car has about 25,000 miles. The fact that they've offered this may be the reason I buy a second Mazda, though.

What's with the original battery? My car sat in the garage for I dunno, maybe a week? This morning I fired it up. It started ok alrighty, but it surely did crank VERY slugishly. Before I could get concerned about that, it fired up. Darn battery!!! Mine is one of the first August '03. 2 1/2 years might be not too bad for a battery life I guess, but still, my car has only about 12,500 miles on it so far, it all looks so darn nice 'n' new still. For the battery to be old & in need of replacement just doesn't seem right... eh...

That is exactly what happenned to me. I have 5/03 build with 17K miles and it sat from mid November to mid December. When I first cranked it, it barely started. If It sat a week it had a hard time starting. The symptoms were exactly a battery on its last legs.

I took it to the dealer, complained the poor starting after sitting and asked for the "Engine cranks - no start" TSB upgrades (battery, starter and plugs). They did it all under warranty, no cost to me. The car starts great now.

Yes, the original battery is just too small.

So I have a 2005 GT coming in tomorrow will it have all the upgrades?

So I have a 2005 GT coming in tomorrow will it have all the upgrades?

Check the build date on the car (see the tag on the driver's door jamb) versus the dates in this post: http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1246630&postcount=1155 . If it was built after 3/2005 it will have all the latest and greatest starting enhancements.

We are the unfortunate souls of a flooded engine. My husband started our car and moved it out of the driveway onto the street to have the windshield replaced. The glass company arrived, replaced the glass...we waited 2 hours and tried to start it to move the car back on the driveway..it wouldn't start. We know we flooded it due to the fact it was a cold start, and he turned off the engine after 12 seconds of driving it. We tried 12 times last night to start it with no success. This morning we tried for an hour until the battery died. We hooked up our truck battery to the RX-8 and after charging the battery for a long time...it finally started. The battery was too weak to turn over the engine even though we took off the spark plugs and cleaned them. They looked horrible! My husband has since driven the car for one hour, and then shut down the car. He went on an errand and when he came back the car did start back up again, but the starter sounds bad. Probably due to the fact we kept trying to start it for over an hour. I have an appt at Mazda. I have to see what's wrong with it i.e. if we damaged the starter,maybe replace battery, replace spark plugs, replace oil, and check the fuel tank. We've had our RX-8 for almost 3 years now and we drive it a lot (80 miles a day to commute to work)..and have never had this problem til now. You have no idea how frustrating it is until it happens to you. Just for moving the stupid car 15 feet. Yikes...We had an RX-7 in the years past and never had this problem. Just so frustrating.

You have no idea how frustrating it is until it happens to you.

Yep.

and we just hit 50,000 miles so my warrenty is void. Not fun at all.

and we just hit 50,000 miles so my warrenty is void. Not fun at all.

Since you just hit 50K, and since Mazda seems to be applying the "Engine cranks - no start" Service Bulletin so liberally to older 8s now, I would at least inquire (of both the dealer and Mazda USA) about getting the Service Bulletin updates (battery, starter, leading plugs) applied to your car at no charge. Technically if you had asked before 50K, it would probably have been done, but you had no reason to ask (being nice guys).

It never hurts to try to get them to cover it. The worst they can say is no.

thanks, I will ask...it can't hurt to ask.

so your car has hit 50 k has it ever been back to the dealer. did you get the recall notice in the mail???? did you read the owners manual or watch the dvd that came in the mail about the car...

and you just found this site.. odd very odd.

beers :beer:

now reguarding the service bulletin will they just check for the updates for the battery,s tarter and leaading plugs free of charge, or replace them free of charge if they need replacing?

the recall for the r flash should have taken care of most of it... and much more!!!!

beers :beer:

a I went in and had all recalls (two or three I believe) taken care of quite awhile ago. I had my 30,000 mile check up...my 42,000 mile check up and I've gone in continually for an A/C problem and I've never had my car engine flood until yesterday. I was planning on later in the month taking it in for a 50,000 service.

Alright, I have a new question. Since I bought the car used on ebay I don't know what tsb's have been done. Can I call the dealer and give them my vin to find out what has been done?

Alright, I have a new question. Since I bought the car used on ebay I don't know what tsb's have been done. Can I call the dealer and give them my vin to find out what has been done?
You can call Mazda North American Ops at 1-800-222-5500 or go to MazdaUSA.com and send customer service an e-mail and they can tell you if there are any open recalls on the car. They probably won't be able to give you complete details on all the service done on the car. You can also go into the dealer and ask the service department to check for a record of services. I'm not sure just which services are entered into the database other than recalls. I doubt that the dealership service department will give you any information without verifying that you are the owner.

In the last couple of weeks, I have had 3 instances of flooding. Each time I was able to start it myself, but not without 30-45 minutes of using the flooded start procedure - crank with pedal to floor, crank with foot off pedal, repeat until hoarse from swearing at the car for making you miss a meeting at work. I have also had it into the dealer to fix the headlight aim - 3 times. No luck - lights still aimed at the ground. I can't drive the car safely at night. I see there are various posts on how to "do it yourself", but I wanted the dealer to do it themselves. (I really like the service dept - they've been great with all the flooding episodes, they just had no luck making the aiming stick)

I have had 3 previous flooding problems that required towing to the dealer, before the battery upgrade. With the new battery, there is enough juice to not kill it starting it flooded, at least.

ALL of my flooding occurences where with a fully warmed up car. I have moved it cold numerous times and revved it up when shutting it off with no problems.

Anyway, the last couple weeks were it. I'm tired of getting stranded by a new car. I just signed a deal on a new Miata, and am trading in the RX-8. I know - not the same car, but still quite nice and lots of fun to drive - ZOOM ZOOM!

Dave

Great choice of car in the MX-5. A few questions I might want to ask if that's OK by you: Do you have the new starter and is your car a 6 speed? Have they up-dated your sparkplugs, how many miles are on yours, what year is it and did you purchase it new or second hand?

Great choice of car in the MX-5. A few questions I might want to ask if that's OK by you: Do you have the new starter and is your car a 6 speed? Have they up-dated your sparkplugs, how many miles are on yours, what year is it and did you purchase it new or second hand?

I bought mine new in August '04 - build date March '04. It's a 6 speed Touring Edition. It has had the new starter, new battery, 2 new sets of plugs during it's various tow ins for flooding. Just had it in for 15K service so it's got the latest software (flooded twice after that). It has 16,600 miles on it.

I've had loads of fun driving it, but I think I'll be happier with more dependability from the MX-5. I owned a TR-7 a long time ago, and at the time was a bachelor lieutenent in the Army with nothing better to do in my spare time than fiddle with a finicky sports car :-) My tastes have changed. I'm looking forward to the Miata. On a test drive it felt as tight and glued to the road as the RX-8, maybe even more so! Just not quite the acceleration in the midrange.....plenty to keep me happy. Loved the one hand from the driver's seat putting the top up and down - couldn't be easier.

Dave

Well, I guess it just *had* to happen at some point but I sure didn't expect it to be so soon. Had the car for 3 weeks, made sure I didn't shut it down without properly warming it up. Parked the car at my GF's uncle's place while we went on a 1 week cruise in the caribbean... he "showed it" to another of my GF's uncles. What do you think they did?

After a full week without running, humid and cold temperature outside. Just a few hours before I got there to take it back: Unlock doors... get in... start the car... "it sure is a real nice car"... shuts off the car.

Did I mention I had informed the uncle in question about "never shutting it down without a sufficient warm-up or it'll be good for a flatbed ride to the dealership" ?

Now of course it won't start. Tried the manual procedure... now I can smell gas so that probably means we flooded it even more while trying to start it up.

I'll get it towed to the dealer on Tuesday since everything is closed for Easter. For those who had this trouble, is everything covered under warranty? I read changing plugs, sometimes changing oil + oil filter. Is that all covered or do they make you pay for it?

Thanks :crying:

Well, I guess it just *had* to happen at some point but I sure didn't expect it to be so soon. Had the car for 3 weeks, made sure I didn't shut it down without properly warming it up. Parked the car at my GF's uncle's place while we went on a 1 week cruise in the caribbean... he "showed it" to another of my GF's uncles. What do you think they did?

After a full week without running, humid and cold temperature outside. Just a few hours before I got there to take it back: Unlock doors... get in... start the car... "it sure is a real nice car"... shuts off the car.

Did I mention I had informed the uncle in question about "never shutting it down without a sufficient warm-up or it'll be good for a flatbed ride to the dealership" ?

Now of course it won't start. Tried the manual procedure... now I can smell gas so that probably means we flooded it even more while trying to start it up.

I'll get it towed to the dealer on Tuesday since everything is closed for Easter. For those who had this trouble, is everything covered under warranty? I read changing plugs, sometimes changing oil + oil filter. Is that all covered or do they make you pay for it?

Thanks :crying:

I believe I saw you at Mazda Gabriel at 7:30am this morning. Looks like the service guys there were being real helpful.....

Mine was in for the Thermal Damage/Fuel Tank recall. Of course, mine is a 2005 and I've done the cold start, short run-shut down many times with no problems at all.

Let me know how it goes and particularly how you are treated by Mazda Gabriel.

Thanks,

Daniel

I love my 2004 RX8 when it works. However, mine flooded the first time last December. My husband backed it out of the garage and turned it off. He then went inside for a minute and then we both got in to go to my party. Then of course, it would not start because it flooded. Since it was on the weekend, we had to have the car towed and wait until Monday, without use of the car, until they could replace the plugs. At that time, they gave me a better battery and charged me $65.00 for it. I was angry, but got over it. Then on this past Friday, April 14, my husband backed it out to wash the car. Then when he restarted it, it had flooded. So back to the dealer again for the weekend. This time they did provide me with a loaner. But had I known that this was an issue with this car, I would have never purchased it to start with, despite the fact that otherwise, it is a great little car. I am too old and too busy to have to remember that once I start the car, I have to leave it running for five minutes or else run the risk of being stranded.

The dealer should replace, under warranty, your battery, starter motor and spark plugs with upgraded units. Those items will greatly reduce the possibility of a future flood, or help with recovering from a flood, but you still should not shut the engine down cold. Print out the service bulletin at the link below and take it with you in case they claim ignorance.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf

I am too old and too busy to have to remember that once I start the car, I have to leave it running for five minutes or else run the risk of being stranded.

Then you are too old and busy to own a rotary engine car. Are you also too old and busy to remember to check and add oil? The dealer and the manual should have told you about both of these things. The rotary does ask more of its owner, but its not that much more. It demands that you:

-always warm the car up before shutting it off

-check the oil every week or every other fill-up

Both of these things will prolong the life of ANY engine, but are mandatory on the rotary. If you can't handle those two simple things, get a different car.

BTW: I've always let mine warm up before shutting it off, and I've never flooded.

BTW: I've always let mine warm up before shutting it off, and I've never flooded.

And it shows in your response. Please believe me, tuj, it only takes once, and the warm fuzzies one has about this car tend to evaporate. I've driven mine since Dec. '03 without a flood, but I've never made a mistake since then. . . not since that first time. In fact, my "first flood" was the last time my wife drove our RX-8 and, although that might sound like a good thing to some, it's a pain in the neck arranging my life so she can drive our other car at all times. It also made it a waste buying the AT; I'd have surely gotten the MT if I had known I'd be the only driver.

Personally, I love my car, but the four days I watched it sitting in my driveway waiting for a rotary mechanic to come back from his New Years' holiday were very unpleasant. I give Mazda lots of credit for continuing to work on the rotary engine, but I think over the life of the 2004 model at least, it was going to strand most of us at some point in time, particularly as the batteries naturally age.

The good news is that mine goes in for remediation work this Thursday. I'll be very happy to get the new equipment. :)

The poll is going to be skewed since you can't vote twice. Of course, the smartiepants who hadn't YET had the flood situation were all too happy to share their good fortune and to laugh at the rest who were not so fortunate already. I can imagine that some of those former naysayers would have to change their votes once the flaw catches up with them. Then all those hollow guffaws would come back to haunt them. Also, as the population of RX-8s is aging and the newer ones are set up with better batteries and starters and Flashes, I expect the older ones to fail sooner or later.

I believe I saw you at Mazda Gabriel at 7:30am this morning. Looks like the service guys there were being real helpful.....

Mine was in for the Thermal Damage/Fuel Tank recall. Of course, mine is a 2005 and I've done the cold start, short run-shut down many times with no problems at all.

Let me know how it goes and particularly how you are treated by Mazda Gabriel.

Thanks,

Daniel

That wasn't me, I was still getting ready for work at that hour :)

The car is actually on the North shore of Montreal and the flatbed is on it's way as we speak... I'm waiting for a callback from Repentigny Mazda (where it's headed) to talk about the sparks-pcm-battery-starter service bulletin and ask when I could get my 8 back.

So far I've been to Mazda Gareau everytime (on Papineau) and even though they're small, I've had good service. Especially when you consider that I scratched a car in their parking lot (long story) and they were pretty cool about it (cost me 100$ tho) :nono:

I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE IT!

The previous owner flooded it once, so I'm not covered by Mazda. They want to charge me 280$ for 4 spark plugs!!!

280!!!!

I don't understand why this is so hard. There's only a few things you have to do to avoid flooding.

-get the newest flash, which you should already have

-get the uprated battery and starter via the 'silent recall' by complaining to your dealer. My dealer just offered it to me; I didn't have to say anything.

-always warm the car up before you shut it off

-if you can't warm the car up, rev the engine to 3k and cut the ignition. The extra revolutions of the engine with no fuel being injected will help to clear the engine. Owners of RX-7's of all vintages have been doing this for years.

I can understand the frustration caused by your car flooding. It sucks to be stranded. My 8 has stranded me once when the main belt broke. But the rotary engine is not like a piston engine and you can't expect to treat it the same. Would you treat a 2-stroke engine like a 4-stroke?

The vast majority of people who have had trouble with flooding didn't do the three things listed above. Yes, I agree that Mazda should have had the uprated battery and started from the beginning, and tuned the initial flash a little better. But that being said, the flooding issue is not that big of a deal, provided you can remember how to turn the car off.

Its like people today don't understand that some machines need proper treatment. Not everything has become a 1-button stupid-proof wonder. You bought a sports car, not a Camry, so don't treat it like one.

That's it, I'm trading it in on a Mazda6, all because of what you just said, tuj!

lol, dude, put ur flamesuit on!!!

I didn't flood mine yet either. The vast overwhelming majority of floods are from shutting it down cold.

This lame battery thing has me worried though. I'm gonna try like hell for them to give me the freebie battery, starter & plugs. Who knows though, until that happens, I might flood her from lack of juice, and I will be pissed if that happens.

I've read of other floods that are reportedly not from a cold shutdown too, I tend to believe them. This problem is too darned finnicky.

Even a cold shutdown is no reason to be left for dead, heck, I almost did that at least once myself, and I'm real fussy about that. Stories like allowing someone to drive it are a good example. It's no excuse for the car to leave people flooded.

Well the alternative for Mazda to prevent the flooding would be to have a turbo-timer like device that keeps the car running after you take the key out if you attempt to shut it down cold. That would probably be a great idea, the problem is that you can imagine all of the bewildered owners wondering why their car won't turn off! The other thing they could do is make the car rev itself to 3k and cut out when you turn off the ignition. Of course, I think the car should include a seperate oil reserve and a better dipstick location, but I guess we can't have everything.

My understanding is that the reports of floods after non-cold shutdown were largely eliminated with the flashes after K. I've been driving mine since Aug 04 and have never flooded, and my driving includes many short trips.

I remember shortly after the car hit the states there was a thread where the poster was complaining that his engine blew up. Then he said how he had driven the car for 6k without ever checking or changing the oil. And he thought it was Mazda's fault! Anyway, I feel genuinely bad for anyone who has flooded and NOT shutdown the car cold.

And we will try to feel sorry for you when you flood yours when you have to move it for some reason or another and can't warm it up. - Life Happens. Reving it to 3K does not work every time, believe me. I was in the new battery, plugs, starter & flash group and had to move the car because of a snowstorm. Moved it, reved it, flooded it. I let it idle now if I have to move it but can't drive it.

...I let it idle now if I have to move it but can't drive it.Reminds me of when I just took her 1 mile to fill her up at the nearest gas station. Of course, after 1 measly mile, the temp gage hardly budged yet. Had to sit there for ~ 5 minutes before I could shut her down to fill her up, revving her 'n' stuff, people were looking over at me like I was a fruitcake. :cwm27: (I NEVER fill up a car with the engine idling - I've seen the videos...)

I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE IT!

The previous owner flooded it once, so I'm not covered by Mazda. They want to charge me 280$ for 4 spark plugs!!!

280!!!!

Ah, the flood-once spiel. I know it well. My dealer offered me the "accomodation" of fixing the car for free after saying initially I was going to have to pay for the repair. To retell the story yet again (sorry to the long-time subscribers, just skip this post), I was furious, and was subsequently assured by MNA -- in writing -- that all flooding would be covered under the terms of my warranty. Of course, this was after I sent them a photo of my car on the flatbed, and started posting the photo online, in early '04. I don't know if it had any effect, but I'd like to think I made a point.

I recognize that the MNA letter, addressed to me, was not an annoucement of Mazda policy. They have no obligation to treat every customer the same way. In internet speak, "YMMV." But, were I you, I would complain persistantly and politely, as well as in writing to MNA if necessary. I suspect your problem will likely go away, as mine did.

Hundreds of people with bills in hand for flooding repairs would be some lawyer's dream. . . Tuj makes a point about taking care of machinery the right way, but I disagree with him in thinking it doesn't border on consumer fraud or a violation of the implied warranty of fitness to sell an automobile in the 21st Centrury without a giant window sticker saying, "WARNING, THIS CAR MAY STRAND YOU IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE AND SHUT THE KEY OFF TOO SOON."

I guess I'm part of the goon squad. I flooded mine when I moved it and didn't let it warm up. My fault. Called Mazda Roadside Assistance. They had a guy to my house in less than an hour. I said let me try one more time before you load it up. You guessed, it finally started! I thanked the guy and sent him on his way. I didn't want to go to that dealer anyway - they really suck.

I've had all the flashes, new battery, starter, plugs. It still doesn't overcome stupidity. Lesson learned.

I have flooded my RX8 twice, both times it had to be towed to the dealership. After the second time they told me that they would not repair it for free again, warranty or not. They claim that I should know better. Well, the next time I'm in the market for a new car I will know better then to buy an RX8!

I have flooded my RX8 twice, both times it had to be towed to the dealership. After the second time they told me that they would not repair it for free again, warranty or not. They claim that I should know better. Well, the next time I'm in the market for a new car I will know better then to buy an RX8!

This last time did they make sure you have the updated PCM firmware, battery, starter and leading plugs? If not, take the car back and make sure they do everything listed in the Service Bulletin http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448e.pdf . If you have all these updates the chance of flooding is greatly reduced, almost eliminated.

However, you still may want to make an effort to not cut the engine off before it has had a chance to warm up, just to give yourself that extra level of insurance against flooding.

:rock: Happy happy happy, joy joy joy !!! :rock:

I took mine in for routine servicing today. I talked on the phone for a little while with a service manager yesterday about the very sluggish starting and how we here know that the answer to that is coupled to the best answer going so far for the flooding issue and is covered in the TSB for Engine Cranks No Start, that being the new battery, starter and plugs. He started to act dumb, so I said, ok, no problem, when I bring it in, I'll have the TSB printed-out for him to study - all 17 pages of it.

This morning, I had my wife drop it off. I wrote on the top of the TSB print-out "Engine cranks VERY SLUGGISHLY! MIGHT FLOOD AT ANY TIME NOW...", then I indicated on page 1 where it shows to replace the battery, the starter and the leading plugs.

We didn't hear all morning from them. At lunch time, they called to annouce that it was ready to go. We both went to pick it up. The job was done!!! :rock:

The part numbers look correct on the invoice, the TSB is noted on there as well.

Since I am on of the original pre-order customers, with my free scheduled maintenance, all that plus the regular service charges added up to $0.00 :ylsuper: . And I waved bye-bye to the cashier on the way out. :bootyshak

I'm a happy camper! Mazda has just done what they needed to do to keep me on its' list of faithful followers!!! Thanks a million Mazda!!! :)

Oh, by the way, I talked to the main service manager. He swears that holding the rev's at 3k for 30 seconds is 100% trustworthy - that you don't need to bring it up to temp to shut her down if you do that. That makes a lot of sense. That must be how the service guys do it, for 2 very big reasons 1) They don't have the time to sit there and wait for the engine to warm up before shutting it down. 2) They don't want to have to work on an engine that is real hot. They move cars around all day long. It makes sense, and so, I gotta believe him.

He said to hold it at around 3k for about 30 seconds. Let go of the gas and turn off when the tach gets to around 1000rpm (not quite yet down to idle).

This isn't new news, just reinforces the notion that shutting-down like this is 100% trustworthy. I didn't feel so hot about doing it that way myself. He said it'll start for you the next time, no problems, guaranteed.

Just to clarify one more thing, I never told them that my engine had flooded. Never. They can confirm that I had lied by going to check on the faults memory. Besides that, I don't lie. The big manager asked me "You never actually flooded it, did you?" I said "No, but the way it's been cranking so sluggishly, I was pretty sure it would be letting me down prretty soon." He said, "Oh, ok, I thought that was how it was, I just wanted to be sure of that matter, we had no record here that you actually flooded her." And again, I said "Nope, never flooded her..."

I'm not completely sure of just how he took this matter, whether he felt that I schnookered him somehow out of all that stuff since I never flooded it. We talked for a good 5 minutes about things, mainly about the flooding issue and he acted quite friendly after I confirmed to him that I never flooded the car, so, I guess all is well with the world...

He talked a good bit about carbon build-up causing several engine replacements, that a lot of RX-8 owners just "putz around town" and never rev it like it should to keep the carbon build-up down. By the time the engine locks-up, it's so bad, they have to replace the whole engine!

"Rev it like you stole it" it his motto. :) He said they love to be revved... so, do it ;)

My experience was similar. I asked that the remediation be done, and the service manager agreed without discussion. I asked about the charge. He said there would be no charge. I was very pleased.

My invoice on picking up the car, which I had to sign, said, "Customer states the engine cranks but will not start. Often has had to follow deflood procedure several times in last few weeks. Intermittently flooding. Replaced starter assembly, battery and leading spark plugs with updated parts. Warranty. $0.0"

I don't think the above is anything but Mazda NA padding its records to preclude a recall, as opposed to my dealership stealing warranty work. I think the on-board computer registers each crank-no start, so the customer shouldn't have to "state" anything. So be it -- the squeaky wheel and all... I'm giving Mazda NA credit for taking care of me.

Bottom line is that you can either lie, or whine... I expect the result will be the same. They'll do the work if you insist.

BTW, I thought the starter would be very different; it's not. The crank is slightly higher pitched, but generally sounds like the previous one.

As I mentioned previously, I've had a number of flooding events, always when the car was warm. I never had a problem with short cold moves. Several times I was late to important meetings. I also had the car in 3 times to aim the headlights - they could never fix them and they were aimed so close that it was dangerous to drive at night. Enough problems.

Anyway, I just took delivery of a brand new MX-5 Miata (Sport model) in Winning Blue on Friday. I love it. It is just as much fun to drive, if not more so, than the RX-8, and my wife and I enjoyed tooling all around with the top down yesterday.

I've enjoyed reading and learning from everyone, but I'll probably spend a lot less time here from now on and spend that time driving :-)

Dave

If I believed in karma... anyway...

O.K., no one is allowed to talk to Dave anymore. Pass it on.

Dave Who? ;)

My engine flooded this morning and was towed to the dealer. I did not start and stop the engine...I'm a fanatic about not doing that. The 2004's have a battery problem that they suspect caused the flooding. As it was explained to me, if there isn't enough juice in the battery to turn the engine over right away, it can flood the engine. That's what has probably happened to my car. Lucky its under warranty. Sad to see it on a flatbed.

Bummer dude. That's exactly what I just avoided - see above just a little bit. I know that doesn't ease your pain...

My engine flooded this morning and was towed to the dealer. I did not start and stop the engine...I'm a fanatic about not doing that. The 2004's have a battery problem that they suspect caused the flooding. As it was explained to me, if there isn't enough juice in the battery to turn the engine over right away, it can flood the engine. That's what has probably happened to my car. Lucky its under warranty. Sad to see it on a flatbed.

I agree, the original battery is weak and will probably give up the ghost and die after 2 or 3 winters at best That is what happened to mine although it never totally died. Luckily it prompted my dealer to install all the flooding upgrades (battery, starter and leading plugs) under warranty, which the car really needs done.

By the way Racer, your posts helped me understand what was going on with my car right after it happened. When it didn't start I found this site and did some research. I sounded pretty knowledgeable when I was explaining it all to my husband :) Also have some condensation in the rear light that they'll fix at the same time. But otherwise, I LOVE my car.

I have been lurking on this thread since I flooded mine. (details are on page 78 of this thread so I won’t repeat them) Ever since I don’t really trust the car to start – ever really, because I figure when I need it most it will leave me stranded which leads me to my question. Is there a better way to get a flooded engine started like pulling a fuse to the fuel pump? I think I have read that if you follow the de-flooding/de-chocking procedure and hold down on the accelerator that the computer doesn’t give the car any gas. Is this right?!? I have tried it when the engine is not flooded and it starts and winds right up to red line as soon as it catches so that really doesn’t sound like it is cutting the fuel.

Tell me I’m wrong, call me stupid, tell me to search, I don’t really care, I would just like to come up with a sure fire way of starting a flooded car short of injecting washer fluid into the rotor. This one might work but I don’t really want to re-engineer my car AND I don’t think rain-X bug remover is the best thing to squirt into the engine.

Is there a better way to get a flooded engine started like pulling a fuse to the fuel pump?

Check out the DIY "Deflooding in under 5 mins" (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=55517&highlight=flood).

I can't vouch for this personally but you can read the pros/cons in the thread. It also has the downside that if you de-flood it yourself you don't get the TSB updates nor do your get the diagnostics (like checking for CAT damage) that you would if you had the dealer de-flood the car.

I flooded again after having the TSB stuff done. This time it required a flatbed. So, the TSB fixes do not fix the problem.

Yeah, that was the thread I was referring to with the washer fluid. I don't like that solution because it has void my warranty written all over it and my car seems to be in the shop enough that I would be taking it on and off way too many times.

I flooded again after having the TSB stuff done. This time it required a flatbed. So, the TSB fixes do not fix the problem.

How do you flood the car after it has the higher output battery, new plugs, and improved starter? The only thing I have done to my car is upgrade the battery myself and I have never had a flood or it be even close to flooding, hell my starter is very slow compared to the way the new one sounds. Granted I never cut the car off cold, and if it is less than fully warm I do the 3k shutdown.

I flooded again after having the TSB stuff done. This time it required a flatbed. So, the TSB fixes do not fix the problem.

Did it happen after a short trip and cutting it off cold?

Nope, it just happened. Then when I took it to the dealership (of course I was not at home when this happened) the new dealership lied to me and said the starter had never been replaced. I told them yes, it had. They argued with me and when I brought up the fact that I could HEAR the difference in the starting (the rev is MUCH faster on the new one) they claimed that was due to a reflash.

I'm currently getting all my paperwork together to report this to MNAO. It's bad enough we have to deal with a car that could possibly leave you stranded; we shouldn't have to deal with dealerships lying about other dealerships.

I love this car, I'm just so disappointed in the complete lack of integrity at some of the dealerships.

Red:

Strange time of year to flood -- the weather's been dry, too. I'm thinking you've got something weird going on . . . did it crank at all?

My new starter is different sounding, but not so much that anyone other than me would ever notice.

Perhaps a bit off topic, but the one thing I have noted since the updates to my car (battery, plugs, starter) is that the power in my AT seems to drop quickly whenever I remove my foot from the accelerator; the tach just drops like a rock, and sometimes fluctuates slightly at the low end, like it catches itself and corrects. The power drop is also not something the average person might notice -- it's just a big change from what I was used to.

Red:

Strange time of year to flood -- the weather's been dry, too. I'm thinking you've got something weird going on . . . did it crank at all?
Yep, it cranked and cranked and cranked. It almost caught once and some smoke came out (the way it did before when I dechoked it) but then it died right away and wouldn't catch again.

I figured, "hey, let's get this taken care of once and for all" and had it towed. It's just sad when I have to walk into a dealership (as a knowledgable consumer) and get treated like an idiot. I was also accused (to my face) as a "dealer-hopper." When I inquired as to what that was, she told me it's people who go from dealer to dealer because one dealership has voided their warranty. I assured her that was not the case, so she showed me a printout of all the dealers this car had been to. One of the supposed dealerships was THE PORT OF ENTRY into the states. I hope when I'm done that this stupid lying woman no longer has a job.

Can you tell I'm upset? :hahano:

Weird -- was it the very early morning, perhaps -- 3 am - 6 am when you tried to start it? I've got a wild "condensation" theory, but it would require the air to be moist and warm when you shut the car down, and much cooler when you tried to start it back up. (Was there dew on the grass, perhaps?)

Hang in there; there's a Love/Hate thing with this car (dealerships being weak link in the mix). It'll come back around. It's like the "rotary cycle."

As I think you know already, I always recommend letters to Mazda NA for serious complaints -- cc: the dealership if you're really pissed off. You'll get a letter back in a few weeks from a corporate-trained person who'll always be polite, and the letter will surely lead off with an apology (of sorts). "We're sorry to hear that you have been having trouble. . . " They'll also record the letter against the dealership so long as you don't come off sounding crazy.