Push start it, let it warm up before turning it off.

That is the first time that I have heard anyone say this. Has anyone tried? Did it actually work because I would figure that the computer would have some sort of protection setting to keep it from starting while moving (since it has all kinds of other protection stuff that keeps the dyno results from being right, etc)?

Same problem for me in S. Jersey, I have submitted a certified letter to Mazda under the Lemon Law, and an fyi, supposedly the cut off for the Lemon Law is 18,000 or one year.

Well, I joined the mass of "floodeds" this week. I came back to my garaged 2004 "8" AT after a winter vacation of 8-9 days. The starter cranked, sounded like it was going to catch for about 1/4 second, then just spun. All the clearing stuff of foot to the floor didn't help. Charger overnight boosted battery but to no avail. Off it went this morning on a flatbed, thanks to Mazda RoadSide service call. Car has 14 months on it and 17,237 miles of trouble -free driving pleasure. I have no idea what Flash my ECU is but suspect that the battery issue is the key in this case.

I'm somewhat surprised by the number of reported flooded engines. The Renesis is not as useable as it should be if it has to be run for 5 minutes whenever it is started: not user friendly. How many people have actually fallen foul of this problem?
YES

I have cut/pasted a post that I made on another related thread here:

"I have had my '04 8 for about 18 months now, with 38k miles on it. In the last 3 or 4 months, it has flooded on me 3 times and I have been unable to get it started any of the times following the proscribed procedure. I have had to have it towed to the dealership all 3 times, and I am about to give up on it.

Does anybody else find this to be a completely unacceptable design flaw? My dealer told me that it usually happens when the car is started for only a short time and not allowed to reach operating temps. This was only the case in one of my three floods, but in all cases the car sat for at least a day or more before the failed starts. Even if that were the case though, I find it unacceptable that the manufacturer is telling me that any time I start my care I have to run it for 5 or 10 minutes or I can expect this.

Furthermore, I find it totally unacceptable that Mazda knows of this problem and does not have a fix for it and is basically telling me that I can expect to have to deal with this from time to time.

I think more people will start having this problem as they get more miles on the cars, because I didn't experience it until about 32k.

I am within days of pursuing "lemon law" type legal action to try to force Mazda to buy my car back. I will not tolerate an 18 month old $30,000 car that I cannot rely on to start. Anybody have any input on this?

P.S. otherwise, I have loved this car and will be loathe to part with it, but I might have to start looking into a 350Z Track."

Owned sinc August of '03 with no problems of flooding. Until...my car had been sitting in the garage all winter connected to a battery tender. Drove it one nice weekend, forgot to re-connect the battery tender. About 3 weeks later, another nice weekend came around and tried to start the car. Battery was BARELY low on charge and didn't start. Kept trying...flooded the engine. Used Mazda's technique to de-flood the engine - Crank for at least 7 seconds with gas pedal depressed - it didn't work. After some playing with tiechnique and a couple of battery charges it finally started!! I just cranked it for a longer period of time...about 20 seconds. Did this about 5 or 6 times, then tried to start it. It worked. I think my mistakes were; 1. didn't crank it long enough, 2. tried to start it too soon, should've cranked it 5 or 6 times, 3. battery must be absolutely fully charged. Had oil changed, seemed to have some fuel in the oil. Dealership informed me of the "MPS04 lack of power" ECU re-flash. I had this done and WOW!!! - what an improvement of power! I can feel the scondary and tertiary ports open! Yeehaaa!!! My mileage has been about 19 mpg, we'll see if it goes up or down.

PS - make sure your battery has a FULL charge, it seems to lose charge easily. It doesn't take much loss of charge to affect starting.

<<SNIPPED>>
PS - make sure your battery has a FULL charge, it seems to lose charge easily. It doesn't take much loss of charge to affect starting.

Ain't that the truth!? The OEM battery in the US cars is pretty weak. The replacement battery (Interstate MTP-35) that Mazda recommends is significantly better in the CCA department. CCA for the OEM battery is about 300, for the MTP-35 it's 640.

And as I've said many times here before: "Therein lies a strong part of the problem and the solution". THE CHEESY BATTERY!

Ain't that the truth!? The OEM battery in the US cars is pretty weak. The replacement battery (Interstate MTP-35) that Mazda recommends is significantly better in the CCA department. CCA for the OEM battery is about 300, for the MTP-35 it's 640.
What is your reference for this reccommendation? I need the source, because I have had to have my 8 flat-bedded to the dealer 3 times for flooding, and if Mazda actually reccomends this replacement, I am going to get them to pay for it.

What is your reference for this reccommendation? I need the source, because I have had to have my 8 flat-bedded to the dealer 3 times for flooding, and if Mazda actually reccomends this replacement, I am going to get them to pay for it.
Check out the TSB at the link below. Note that the part number includes "MT35", but the Interstate battery with 640CCA is actually the MTP-35, which is the model they are recommending.

For clarification, it's not that Mazda recommends replacing the OEM battery. Rather, they recommend that the Interstate battery be used as the replacement battery when an OEM battery needs replacing. In other words, this is not a recall per se, nor is the TSB instructing dealers to replace all the RX-8 OEM batteries. Some owners have been successful in getting Mazda to replace the OEM with the Interstate battery and in your case, I would think that would be easily justified. Go for it!

Otherwise, the battery can be had for about $75-$80USD.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-042-04.htm

I'm sure you could make the case for having them replace it for you, w/ the problems you've been having. Ultimately, whether they will or not will probably just depend on the dealership. Some might, some might not. I'd give it a shot though! Good luck...

Thanks- its not the money but the principle, and if the battery really is a potential contributor to the problem then I feel justified, and I never had a flood until about 32k miles, about tthe time the battery might be weakening. I'll let you know what result I get.

When my car flooded, the battery died very quickly as I ran through the cranks-no start procedure. It came close a few times to turning over, but there just wasn't much of a chance before there was nothing. I'd replace my battery in a heartbeat if a TSB came out recommending it, whether it was on Mazda's dime or not, but it's hard to justify otherwise.

Here's a nice battery thread (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=50322), for those interested. Go48 knows it well...

Does anyone think that an ECU piggyback (ala CZ) would help the flooding problem by leaning out the mix?

Hi, I'm in the market for an RX-8 and are trying to get my arms around the flooding issue. Is there a synopsis of the latest info somewhere? I've tried searching but there are a gazillion threads about it.

TIA,
Mike

Hi, I'm in the market for an RX-8 and are trying to get my arms around the flooding issue. Is there a synopsis of the latest info somewhere? I've tried searching but there are a gazillion threads about it.

TIA,
Mike
This is probably as close as you'll get:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=17498

IMO, flooding is blown all out of proportion to reality. It can be a problem if you don't follow the basic recommended procedures for starting and warming up the car. And if you let the OEM battery get too low for doing the no-start, starting procedure.

Hi, I'm in the market for an RX-8 and are trying to get my arms around the flooding issue. Is there a synopsis of the latest info somewhere? I've tried searching but there are a gazillion threads about it.

TIA,
Mike
Here is the definitive "synopsis of the latest info" from Mazda (PDF file): http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-008-05.pdf

although my car has flooded once since i bought it, it was pilot error, not mechanical error.

if you follow the basic, very simple procedures for starting and warming up the car you will not have any problems. rotary's dont flood just because, its always your fault. and its not hard to prevent.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=17498

Of course as has been mentioned previously as well, there are two situations that may cause flooding which you may not be able to control:

1) Valet parking or parking lots with an attendant
2) An accidental stall soon after starting the car

Though (2) has not been confirmed, it's not like your friendly parking attendant will follow the short trip procedure in the "Quick Tips" brochure... :D

There should be a flooding pamphlet in your glove box.

the search function is pretty definitive i think!

Well I need say nothing because these guys pretty much answered your question...just remember flooding is your fault, X's don't flood by themselves. Just pay attention and you'll be straight. I haven't flooded my baby yet and don't plan on doing it either ;)

Never flooded desipte:

1) Frequent valet parking of it
2) Wanton disregard for the "don't start it unless you plan to drive it" rule

Have "M Flash".

I can confirm #2, for no reason it stalled after startup, then towed to the shop.
I requested Mazda to take the car back under the Lemon Law and they are scheduling the car to have new alterations, I'll keep all informed of what the upgrades will be. Supposedly latest version of plugs, N flash, more robust battery, and possibly heavier starter.

Of course as has been mentioned previously as well, there are two situations that may cause flooding which you may not be able to control:

1) Valet parking or parking lots with an attendant
2) An accidental stall soon after starting the car

Though (2) has not been confirmed, it's not like your friendly parking attendant will follow the short trip procedure in the "Quick Tips" brochure... :D

Is there any update on folks that have the latest flash and flooding? Since you can only vote once in a poll and most voted when they didn't flood is this pool current and accurate? I'm just wondering if there should be a current poll with folks that have had the latest flashes and battery upgrades and if that would be a more accurate, either way, number. Also, it would take into account that more mileage is on the cars and relationship with battery condition for those with original units.

get a timer for the car, so u can leave the car and have the car idle until its warm, so u dont have to worry bout flooding

Tasteslikechicken, you may want to check out the Issues & Problems (http://www.rx8club.com/forumdisplay.php?f=95) section of the Tech Garage here. The mods did a good job of sorting a lot of these threads into one list so you can sift through the info and find what you're looking for.

Personally, I've never had a flooding issue (08/04 purchase), but I always gun my engine to 3-4000rpms before shutting off. That seems to keep me out of trouble.

My engine flooded Tuesday morning. Only warmed it up for about 15 seconds, I usually wait a minute at least, went to back out, went 2 feet
and kah-lunk. Nothing. Engine died. Still had plenty of battery power
but the car would not restart. I tried twice more after waiting about 15
minutes. The starter couldn't get the engine to turnover (or spin around!).
I had it towed to the dealer via Mazda Roadside assistance. Note: when I called they said it would be less than an hour to get a tow truck. Nearly 3 hours later, the tow truck arrived. In total, it took 4 hours from the call to
getting it to the dealer. The dealer was very friendly (UMAZDA.COM) and
fixed it promptly. They tried to start it to no avail. Then did some diagnostic
work which I can't remember (it was written on the work-order sheet that
they let me see). They replaced the battery, all 4 plugs and re-flashed the
chip. I estimate (from the work sheet) that it took them about 2 hours to
do this work. Got the car back that afternoon, washed and vacuumed.
Promptly took off and drove it like a madman to test the new flash. Seems
to work even better than the M. Did notice that the rotors seem to have
less resistance spinning, that is, when riding in a low gear at high RPM, there
is less down compression, if that makes any sense. I wasn't too satisfied that my 04 died. But once I had my car back, I felt much, much better!
Chris

I just got a mailing from Mazda to RX-8 owners yesterday. It has a DVD with a number of updates on it. It talks about oil consumption, flooding, fuel quality, synthetic oil (no) and a couple of other minor items. It looks like they are trying to put a happy face on despite our increasing concerns about reliability - the flooding issue. When the warranty is over and we start having to pay to flatbed the car to the dealer to have it deflooded, we will be one very pissed group. They offer the plattitude of just let it warm up to the middle of warm on the temperature gage every time. They talk about the foot to the floor deflooding process but only one attempt and then call the Mazda Roadside Service number. They say if a short run is unavoidable, rev to 3000 for xx seconds, allow to return to idle and then shut down.
Personally, this is a serious driveability issue. Any expensive vehicle should be able to be started and stopped repeatedly and for short hops without any concern for needing a tow truck! I think a recall for replacement of the battery with a 600+CCA rating and a faster turning starter, and the latest ECU flash is in order BEFORE the car becomes a lemon in the press and becomes unsellable. Mine was towed last Thursday and fixed Saturday. No paperwork was provided. I was told there was gas in the oil so it was replaced. The battery stayed the same. The plugs were replaced (17,237 miles) and I don' t know if they changed to the hotter plugs or not.

Personally, this is a serious driveability issue. Any expensive vehicle should be able to be started and stopped repeatedly and for short hops without any concern for needing a tow truck!

100% agreement!

FYI, I have been a lone voice on this opinion in the thread about the DVD (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=54051). Don't send us a DVD to "educate" us. Send us a fix so it's not an issue.

This afternoon I flooded my 8 :mad:

I wanted to clean it so I moved it into the driveway. then once I was done I moved it into the garage......

Now it's just sitting there, flooded.... And I have to go somewhere soon.


What do I do to fix it?

Call roadside asst to get your car towed to the nearest Mz dealership.

It has to be towed?!?!?!?!


what if I wait an hour or so? you think it'll start then?

Did you know that you're not supposed to do exactly what you did? Have you tried the "flood start" procedure yet (it's in the owner's manual)? Just curious, did you let the car warm up before you shut it down when you moved it?

Did you know that you're not supposed to do exactly what you did? Have you tried the "flood start" procedure yet (it's in the owner's manual)? Just curious, did you let the car warm up before you shut it down when you moved it?


Well now I know. :rolleyes:

I never move it and shut it down. this was the first time I've done this becuase I was parked out on the street.

No I didin't let it warm up. :mad:

I tried the flood start procedure, but it still won't start.

It has to be towed?!?!?!?!


what if I wait an hour or so? you think it'll start then?


You can wait a week and it might still not start.

Once the excess fuel coats the plugs they never seem to recover.

There's a TSB that has the entire procedure that the dealer goes through to get a flooded engine started. It involves pulling the plugs, disconnecting an electrical connector, or two, and purging the gas out. It also requires cleaning or replacing the plugs. Here's the link to all TSBs:

<http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/index.html>

See "Engine Cranks / No Start - Revised 01/20/05"

Just be sure the dealer checks/replaces the battery..

As I recall your car is an A/T and they seem to be more flood proned when the battery is low.

If you do end up having it towed to the dealer, get them to make sure you have the latest PCM flash ("N" flash), replace the battery with the 640cca (if you still have the old 2x0cca), and replace the plugs with the latest specs.

I ALMOST did this exact same thing today :(

I pulled the car into the garage after washing, to start waxing and drying.. and was bout to turn off the engine when my phone rang... it was in my lap and vibrating so I grabbed it before it fell on the floor, causing me to NOT turn off the engine first... as I was on the phone, I glanced down at the temp gauge and realized I should let it idle till warm.

One of these days I'm going to print out a small business card sized sign that says "Make sure engine is WARM before you shut down to avoid flooding Stupid!!"

My biggest fear, is that one day I take it to a non-dealer and get a call saying "We can't seem to start your car sir.."

While it may be common knowledge for Rotary-peeps , those of us who aren't familar need a dummy sticker from mazda :D

i have the same thing happend to me couple days ago. yet i have driven the car for about 15 minutes and park it at home then 2 days later i try to start it and it wont start at all. i just had the same shiet happen to me again 3 mos ago and mazda replaced my plugs.. and here i am again stuck. what else can i doo????

I feel like Im in a horror movie with the 8...... :D

I'm no expert but, from what I recall reading....

Shutdown with no warmup is usually fine, as long as you don't let it sit for hours after you do it. I turn the car off when it's not warm, quite a bit. Usually when I'm on the way to work and I stop at the convenience store and/or gas station. I never shut the car down cold if I'm not going to be driving it for a while.

And the first thing I did when I bought this car is read the manual, which tells you how to avoid cold shutdown flooding...

Have you tried the flood recovery procedure? It's in the manual also.

We have two different issues here. One is flooded and one has a dead AA battery.

There are bulletins to address each.
Engine Cranks / No Start - Revised 01/20/05

Battery Replacement - Service Tip Issued 12/15/04

Both are listed here
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=14453

What ever the situation is it is unacceptable, period. Yes, it is typical rotary. Yes, it has been with us since the early examples of the RX series. And yes, it's time for a fix. The latest flash is helpful, the mongo battery is a plus, but until the rotary becomes *more like a piston engine* in situations like this, it will remain unacceptable. Now then, as more miles and wear on the Renesis one hopes that these situations don't become more common. Give me the latest flash, the biggest battery and a starter that will spin the daylights out of this thing. Real world conditions don't always relate to laboratory *perfect* conditions.

Hi all, right now I am kinda thinking about getting a RX8 auto, i contacted the dealership and right now starting to check info about a lease. Like payments etc. Now I decided before getting the car, let me check what the problems and pluses of the car is on the forums. I like all the pluses, the mileage seems to kinda suck but I can deal with that. The issue I have is that I live in an apartment building with valet parking. They would probably move the car 2-3 times a day for a min or two. I can see flooding the engine happening. I did searches and look around, did they improve this problem for the 05? I didn't see any post of this improving much besides letting the car warm up. I can see this being a pain in the ass if it happens because the car is cold. BTW: I am trying for a reserved spot in my building, but the list has a trillion names on it.

The flooding problem is blown WAY out of proportion. If you're really concerned about it and have to move it a short distance, you can just rev it to about 4000 for a few seconds and just dump the throttle. That seems to blow all the gunk out and keep it starting no problem. I very rarely do that and I've never had a problem. I wouldn't worry about it.

Edit: Crap, should have read the whole thing. As long as the car's been warmed up before you valet it, you can usually bet it's going to stay warm for quite a while. I doubt you'll have much of a problem as long as you bring the car to them warm. If it really comes down to it, you could probably leave them a note about making sure they clear all the gunk out before shutdown.

OK, your first problem is getting the automatic. The joy of having this car is that u can ride around at 9000 rpm. You can take every gear from 1k to 9k and the engine causes no vibration. There is nothing like it. The engine loves it too. I beat the shit out of my Rx7 and it still went to 175,00 miles. With the automatic, u r driving a slow sports car that handles well and looks cool. I would never in a million years buy this car with an automatic transmission. Mine rattles like crazy, has been in the shop for flooding, a few recalls, a few flashes, and to get something in the doors replaced because of rattling. And the thing still rattles. The gas mileage is horrible, but maybe because I take every gear to extremely high rpms. I just cant control myself.

And then that valet shit sounds a little risky. I highly doubt that Mazda has been able to fix the flooding issue. It has always been a problem. They say that the new flashes may have solved the problem, butr I'm not in the mood to try and find out. I flooded mine once, and got my car back 3 days later. They say once they flood, they are a bitch to get started again. I wouldn't trust some knucklehead valet to let my car warm up everytime he moved it.

So, unless u learn how to drive stick, I wouldn't suggest buying this car. If u just want to look cool, then go ahead. I've always loved the contour or shape and styling of mazdas cars. Specifically the 2nd and 3rd gen Rx7's, the millenia, now the rx-8. But u just cant experience the joy that this engine has to offer by getting an automatic. U might as well be driving a more powerfull 6 cylinder.

The flooding problem is blown WAY out of proportion. If you're really concerned about it and have to move it a short distance, you can just rev it to about 4000 for a few seconds and just dump the throttle. That seems to blow all the gunk out and keep it starting no problem. I very rarely do that and I've never had a problem. I wouldn't worry about it.

Edit: Crap, should have read the whole thing. As long as the car's been warmed up before you valet it, you can usually bet it's going to stay warm for quite a while. I doubt you'll have much of a problem as long as you bring the car to them warm. If it really comes down to it, you could probably leave them a note about making sure they clear all the gunk out before shutdown.

Please tell me that u dont have your 8 in Florida. If u do, then why are u saying the flooding problem is blown WAY out of proportion? If u live where it is cold and you start your 8 and then shut it off quickly, U WILL FLOOD THE ENGINE. It has always been a problem with the rotary. They hadn't fixed it 20 years. So what the hell r u talking about? Please stop givng shitty advice

Please tell me that u dont have your 8 in Florida. If u do, then why are u saying the flooding problem is blown WAY out of proportion? If u live where it is cold and you start your 8 and then shut it off quickly, U WILL FLOOD THE ENGINE. It has always been a problem with the rotary. They hadn't fixed it 20 years. So what the hell r u talking about? Please stop givng shitty advice

I'm saying that the flooding problem is blown WAY out of proportion because 1) I have not experienced any problems with my car flooding and 2) I have heard from others who live up north that the problem is blown WAY out of proportion. This car is NOT going to flood every time you shut it down cold and it can often be prevented by doing that revving trick. (Though, the whole valet thing is a bit iffy. If it's a daily thing that you're absolutely required to do and you live in the very northern US or Canada, it might be a good idea to look elsewhere.) Flooding in this car is relatively rare and the only reason you hear about it as much as you do is because people don't post things on here to let you know that their car is running a-ok. On top of this, I know they've been replacing batteries and spark plugs with heavier-duty parts. I'm not sure if they've done this to all the 05's but I'd be willing to bet they'll throw those in if you make it a selling point. Please stop scaring the new people.

The flooding problem is what it is. It is not rare. If u do what they say not to do, then u will flood, plain and simple. If i had somebody moving my car a few times a day without warming it up, I'd be willing to bet that I'd be in the shop a lot. U live in Florida, so I dont think u r qualified to give advice on the topic. And I'm jeaous.

jealous

The flooding problem is what it is. It is not rare. If u do what they say not to do, then u will flood, plain and simple. If i had somebody moving my car a few times a day without warming it up, I'd be willing to bet that I'd be in the shop a lot. U live in Florida, so I dont think u r qualified to give advice on the topic. And I'm jeaous.

Well, from what I've been able to glean from what I've read around the site here, it seems more rare than it would appear to be. Sure, it's not as rare as it is in your average piston car, but it's not as oppressive as it may seem when you load up this page and see all the topics about flooding. Bottom line is, if the guy lives anywhere besides the north, he should be fine. We've had some cold snaps where it has dipped into the upper 20s and 30s for several days and I've forgotten to let it warm up and it has been fine. That being said, I'd definitely be nervous about someone else moving it around all day and I think I might ask them to leave it in one spot if at all possible. And as for living in Florida, don't get too jealous - at least you guys have seasons. Summer starts to get a bit old after 20 years. :rolleyes:

I love how the car looks and all, the main problem again with the man tranny is the damn valet. Can I really trust them to drive the car correctly. I only drove a manual a couple times. I am sure I still need plenty of practice. Knowing this I probably be extra careful, but them, I dunno. I haven't seen this in my garage. I would say that 99% of the valet portion of the garage have autos. But i have seen plenty of stalls and other sounds that probably shouldn't be coming from the cars in other garages. Maybe I am getting paranoid but I dunno. Last thing I want really is a new clutch or etc when it not my fault . :mad:

Oh BTW EDIT: since I am in NYC, I don't drive to work. So that car sits cold for about 5 days a week. Maybe due to normal rotation the car moves again 1-2 times a day cold. :(

The flooding problem is what it is. It is not rare. If u do what they say not to do, then u will flood, plain and simple. If i had somebody moving my car a few times a day without warming it up, I'd be willing to bet that I'd be in the shop a lot. U live in Florida, so I dont think u r qualified to give advice on the topic. And I'm jeaous.

dude, you are way off. the flooding does not occur everytime you turn the engine on and shut it off without warming it up. having owned two of them, i have never flooded the 8.

i'm not really sure why you're insistent on this fact. this has been discussed over and over that the issues and problems with this car seem to happen disproportionately often.

fusion, if you can at all get the manual, then go for it. flooding is not really a problem... more like a quirk. and don't listen to joe. you might get the impression that flooding is bound to happen to you regardless of what common sense you may hold.

TRUST THIS, you will regret getting an auto. The complete experience of a rotory is through six gears of redline. As for flooding, one in a thousand, less if you take a few precautions.

Yeah, and don't listen to Joe about the auto either. I drive an AT because I never learned how to drive a stick, and I'm mostly content with mine. Trust me, she can hold her own when she needs to. For safe measure, give both trannies a test drive before you settle on one or the other.

About the flooding issue, I don't necessarily think it's just a "quirk"--I do think it's a real issue--and it may be exacerbated by the facts that a) you live in a climate that has cold winters, b) you would not be moving your car very often, and c) it would be driven very short distances (by valet). The reason I think flooding is more than a quirk is because someone started a poll here about this phenomenon, and over 1/3 of those who responded had flooded their 8. It's an inherent consequence of the engine design, and, if I'm stating this correctly, it occurs because unspent oil/gas get trapped in an improperly warmed rotary engine, crudding up the spark plugs and not allowing them to restart the engine. Unless Mazda makes some drastic engine design change or perhaps allows the 8 not to run so rich, the possibility of flooding still exists even in the '05s. I've personally never flooded my 8, but I also gun the engine to 3000-4000 rpms when I shut her down, per the dealer's instructions.

My $.02 on the automatic/manual subtopic that has come up here: If you're going to learn to drive stick any time, this is the car to do it with. The higher idle makes it easy to learn how to launch, and you're going to have an incredibly good time shifting around as you drive and learning the ins and outs of driving a stick shift. If you have any interest at all in getting this car in a manual, give it some serious thought - this is a FUN car with the 6 speed! (and I am qualified to comment on that topic :p)

A thread to vent. I didn't think I'd ever post this.
I've had my RX-8 close to 18 months now, never a problem.

This week I got that promo DVD, and watched it Thursday. Yesterday, a nice day. Temperatures in the 60ies or 70ies. Already know what this post is going to be about?
I washed my car. I never cared about the here often described shutoff procedure. I washed my RX-8 probably 75 times (weekly) since I owned it, each time pulled it out of the garage, turned it off, washed it, started it, pulled it in, turned it off. NEVER A PROBLEM.

This time, after washing, I think, "hm.. that DVD said something about completely warming up or briefly reving to 3k". I had never done that before. So I revved it yesterday after the wash for a moment to 3k and turned it off. Now I just wanted to go for a fun drive at night, and it's flooded.

I should never have watched that DVD! I always thought flooding is cold weather related. No way. 70 degrees here today again.

Can I say I am pissed?

I tried the de-flood procedure as described in the book (10 seconds) and video (they say 7 seconds there). 3 attempts, no success.

Good I have a second car. Is there a chance that in 3 days it will have cured itself? Probably not, hm?

Yes, I have the M flash and the "hot plugs".

No, the problem will not fix itself unfortunately. You're going to have to get it towed to the dealer to have the spark plugs replaced. Sorry to hear about your predicament. It's peculiar that you've never revved your engine before shut off before, but the one time you do rev it, your 8 floods. That worries me because though I've never flooded my engine, I've always revved my engine to 3000-4000 rpm before I turn her off. The dealer told me to do it when I first bought my car, and it makes sense that doing so would burn up any unspent oil/gasoline in the combustion chamber. Btw, flooding is not dependent on the ambient temperature but on the temperature of the engine.

maybe you need to rev it more, like during daily driving...

I guarantee you can get the car started on your own...mine flooded in -15F weather and the battery died

with a starter unit after 15 minutes, it fired up...LOTS unburnt fuel burnt in a smoky mess but it was up and running, I drove it around for 30s, never had a problem since

really your battery may be weak which is preventing it from turning over...you respond but giving it gas...then you really do flood it

THIS IS MY THEORY, MOST FLOODS ARE CAUSED BY WEAK/POORLY CHARGED BATTERIES

with a starter unit after 15 minutes, it fired up...[..] BY WEAK/POORLY CHARGED BATTERIES


since I have no starter unit, do you think I can use a jump start cable and charge the battery a bit from my other car?

I really don't like the idea to bring the 8 to the dealer. This dealer although only a convenient quarter mile from my house has caused too much shop damage in the past. Dented door, scratched door, cut leather steering wheel, trashed 2 rims, that's all from the top of my head. Oh, the tire inflation to 40 or was it 45 psi?

But the next dealer is 30 miles. Not practical.

Anyone else here who started a flooded car by charging the battery?

No, the problem will not fix itself unfortunately. You're going to have to get it towed to the dealer to have the spark plugs replaced.

I have heard the term 'fouled spark plugs' before, does that mean that they are really damaged at this point or would they be fine if I got the car to run following truemagellen's battery charge suggestion?

Peter
:confused:

dude, you are way off. the flooding does not occur everytime you turn the engine on and shut it off without warming it up. having owned two of them, i have never flooded the 8.

i'm not really sure why you're insistent on this fact. this has been discussed over and over that the issues and problems with this car seem to happen disproportionately often.

fusion, if you can at all get the manual, then go for it. flooding is not really a problem... more like a quirk. and don't listen to joe. you might get the impression that flooding is bound to happen to you regardless of what common sense you may hold.


Funny, the two people saying that flooding is not an issue are from Florida and San Diego. And I love when people change what I said, and then tell me how I'm wrong about what I didn't say. Did I say it would flood every time u turn it off cold? No. I have owned 2 rotaries, IN A COLD CLIMATE, and flooding has been an issue with both cars. I only flooded the 8 once, because I forgot to let it warm up. But to say that it is rare and doesn't happen often is just wrong. Obviously, it wasn't that big of a problem that it would make me not want a rotary, but it does happen. U live in San Diego, what the hell do u know about a rotary in cold weather?

I love how the car looks and all, the main problem again with the man tranny is the damn valet. Can I really trust them to drive the car correctly. I only drove a manual a couple times. I am sure I still need plenty of practice. Knowing this I probably be extra careful, but them, I dunno. I haven't seen this in my garage. I would say that 99% of the valet portion of the garage have autos. But i have seen plenty of stalls and other sounds that probably shouldn't be coming from the cars in other garages. Maybe I am getting paranoid but I dunno. Last thing I want really is a new clutch or etc when it not my fault . :mad:

Oh BTW EDIT: since I am in NYC, I don't drive to work. So that car sits cold for about 5 days a week. Maybe due to normal rotation the car moves again 1-2 times a day cold. :(


Dont worry about the valet not knowing how to drive stick. Chances are, there is somebody on staff that knows how to drive stick. And if they don't, I'm sure they will learn on your car way before the clutch and transmission are damaged. They are not that sensitive. I taught my girlfriend on my RX7, and she isn't too swift when it comes to shit like this. I never had any problems with the clutch or tranny. As for flooding, of course somebody from Florida or California will say flooding isn't a problem. It's not going to happen in warm weather. The flooding issue isn't something that would deter me from getting the car. the joys of the rotary far outweigh the negative aspects. But flooding is real, and it will happen if u r not careful. So if ur gonna get the 8, go have a talk with one of the valet guys. If this is possible, find one that has a brain. Beat it into his head that the car must run for at least 5 minutes evertime he moves it, and to move it as little as possible. You should be ok. But PLEASE GET THE MANUAL.

How long did you have it at 3k RPM before shutting it off? Did you shut it off with your foot on the gas or did you let off the gas before shutting it off?

Depending on how hard you drive the car and how many mile on it, the plugs may need replacing. Plugs don't function at top efficiency forever and unless you run the car very hard for long distances frequently, carbon can build up on the center insulator and cause a shorting of the electrical charge from the center electrode to the carbon coating versus jumping the gap to the other electrode causing the required spark.

As far as the battery goes, the OEM battery in the US cars is woefully inadequate and when called on to do the no-start procedure is not always up to the task of cranking the rotors at sufficient speed to start the engine. You can try charging the battery and giving the no-start procedure another try, or you can pick up a new battery, fully charge it and try that.

The Mazda-recommended replacement battery is the Interstate MTP-35 which increases the cold cranking amps to 640 vs. the ~300 for the OEM battery. If you have your car towed to the dealer, complain about the battery and they will probably replace the battery at Mazda's expense. It might help to print out the TSB regarding the replacement battery to have with you. You will find the link to the TSB's in the Issues and Problems section.

How long did you have it at 3k RPM before shutting it off? Did you shut it off with your foot on the gas or did you let off the gas before shutting it off?


Which is recomended??

Which is recomended??

Make sure your foot is off the gas an the engine revs are dropping otherwise you are dumping extra fuel in. Also make sure you keep the RPMS at or just below 3000 so the secondarys don't open and add extra fuel.

I have a question. Why do the plugs need to be replaced if it floods and you bring it to a dealer but if you can get it to re-start it is OK? Can't they just wipe them off, or does the unburned gas attack them in some way? If so, even if you go through the de-choking procedure wouldn't you have messed up plugs? This has never made sense to me. Flooding + Dealer = New Plugs.

If there is another thread that describes please point me in that direction. It is impossible to search for it because it comes up so often.

Which did you do?

Did you rev it cold? Meaning moved it, did not let her warm up, .. then revved and killed it? That could have caused it. Let the temp needle get up to the middle before killing it.

I think the dealer will give you new plugs. Hopefully, it will be a one time thing for you... as well as many others including myself.

if you buy an rx8 you need a second car, period. you should have a battery tender/charger ready to go. always keep a battery charger IN YOUR CAR at all times. i have accepted this and i am ok with it now. joe

Yes, you can use another car to jump it. I had to do that, and I also removed the fuse to the fuel pump to make sure no gas was entering. Get it started yourself. It is dooable.

I normally rev mine to 5k-6k just to make sure.

Did you rev it cold? Meaning moved it, did not let her warm up, .. then revved and killed it? That could have caused it. Let the temp needle get up to the middle before killing it.


The video and book say to either: warm it up all the way before you shut it off OR rev it up then shut it off. If the engine is already warmed up, then there is no need to rev it up before shutting it off. The guy at the local Mazda shop said he never has a problem moving them around if he does one of the other, but he gets a LOT of customers that either don't do it right or don't try it at all, based on the calls he gets.

You would think Mazda could just program the ECU to do this for you - like a "turbo timer". No matter what you do, the ECU will detect the coolant temp is too low and when you turn off the key will do the "Exact" right rev up first....

Dennis

<<SNIPPED>>I have a question. Why do the plugs need to be replaced if it floods and you bring it to a dealer but if you can get it to re-start it is OK? Can't they just wipe them off, or does the unburned gas attack them in some way? If so, even if you go through the de-choking procedure wouldn't you have messed up plugs? This has never made sense to me. Flooding + Dealer = New Plugs. If there is another thread that describes please point me in that direction. It is impossible to search for it because it comes up so often.

If the plugs are relatively new and they are not carbon fouled, they could probably get by with just cleaning the raw fuel off them with a solvent. However, my guess is that what the service people are seeing with the cars that won't start is more than just a problem with raw gas. If the plugs are carbon fouled, presumably over time from certain driving habits and conditions, the spark may be weak or even non-existent. So when the engine turns over with the weak spark, the fuel/air mixture does not ignite and the flooding occurs.

If you can get the car started, it is still best to have the dealer check it out since the raw gas may have affected the cat converter. The comment about driving it hard after a flood is that by doing so, and getting the engine and plugs very hot, you may burn off the carbon that is fouling the center insulator/electrode.

Carbon-fouled plugs can be cleaned with a special sand-blaster-like dodad, but it's easier and better to just replace carbon-fouled plugs. And remember, when the dealer replaces the plugs because of a flooding problem that is covered by the warranty, Mazda reimburses them for the costs--or at least a substantial portion of the costs.

Off hand, I don't know which thread to direct you to. It's too bad that the search function on the forum does not allow a boolean search so that you can find the specific threads of interest.

Thanks.

What is the recommended service interval for the spark plugs? Or is that what we are collectivly figuring out right now? :)

Thanks.

What is the recommended service interval for the spark plugs? Or is that what we are collectivly figuring out right now? :)
That depends on your driving conditions to a great extent. Short trips, mostly low revs, stop and go driving, will undoubtedly result in a more rapid accumulation of carbon on the plugs from unburned fuel and oil, particularly oil. The owners manual may have a recommended interval, but that would only be a starting point to be modulated by your particular driving conditions.

It seems to me that with an engine like the Renesis that is designed to consume oil, the plug replacement interval would be more frequent than for an engine that is not intended to consume oil. With todays electronic ignition systems, plug replacement intervals in more conventional engines can be 60K miles or even more. With the Renesis, I would think 20K might be a good starting point.

I got to agree with Joe here. Flooding may be a bit more rare than it would first appear from reading these boards, but there is no denying that it can happen. The owners manual even tells you about it. If its in the owners manual then clearly its a common enough problem to warrant a bit of caution. My car even came with a quck reference guide which also very emphatically warned against shutting down cold. There is a whole section of short trip procedures which explains that you should never turn this off cold.

I live in Boston and when I bought mine the salesman told me when I came to pick up my 8, "Make sure you don't shut this car off cold or it could flood" Then later on when I met the service manage he said "RX8? Just don't turn that engine off without letting it warm up first or its gonna flood on you." Then later on when I was talking to my cousin who works as a mechanic at a foriegn car dealership he said. "RX8 is a great car, just what ever you do don't shut it off cold or it will flood, I have done it myself first time I drove one".

I don't think all these people are just saying that because they read it somewhere on the internet, its clearly a problem that has been common enough that its caused several different people in the industry to warn me about shutting down cold.

Its definatley something you should consider if you are going to being Valet parking the car often, its quite likley to happen in that situation. I know I don't Valet mine for that reason. Sure you can talk to the Valet guys about this, but who knows when a new guy is going to be working an move your car without knowing the proper warm up procedure.

Thanks for all the input guys. I had rev'd it to pretty exactly 3000 rpm, knowing that at 3250 the second port opens.

I don't want to wear out my starter unnecessarily, so I guess I have to bite the bullett and have it towed to the dealer.

Peter

The Mazda-recommended replacement battery is the Interstate MTP-35 which increases the cold cranking amps to 640 vs. the ~300 for the OEM battery. If you have your car towed to the dealer, complain about the battery and they will probably replace the battery at Mazda's expense. It might help to print out the TSB regarding the replacement battery to have with you. You will find the link to the TSB's in the Issues and Problems section.

I looked for that TSB on this web site:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/index.html

but cannot find it there. Is there another list with further TSBs?
I'm going to have it towed this afternoon.

I'm going to have it towed this afternoon.Let me know your experience regarding the dealer you took it too - Royal, Putnam or other? As other locals would benefit from your experience, you can PM instead if you prefer.

Thanks....

if you buy an rx8 you need a second car, period. you should have a battery tender/charger ready to go. always keep a battery charger IN YOUR CAR at all times.The RX8 does just fine as my only car. I don't have a battery charger.
Did you rev it cold? Meaning moved it, did not let her warm up, .. then revved and killed it? That could have caused it. Let the temp needle get up to the middle before killing it.The whole point of the cold-engine shutdown procedure is that it allows you to shutdown the engine when it's cold.
You would think Mazda could just program the ECU to do this for you - like a "turbo timer". No matter what you do, the ECU will detect the coolant temp is too low and when you turn off the key will do the "Exact" right rev up first....Does the key do something mechanical that would prevent this from working? If not, what a simple solution that would be...

As far as the procedure goes, I don't think it really matters if you rev to 3000 or 4000, but I always make sure I take my foot off the gas just before I turn the key off.

I have a question. Why do the plugs need to be replaced if it floods and you bring it to a dealer but if you can get it to re-start it is OK?

If you were to pull the plugs right now they might look like hell - carboned up and oil-soaked because of the flooding incident. If you were to get the car running, this *could* resolve itself by getting the plugs to the proper temperature for a long enough time for the deposits to burn off.

On the other hand, instead of being *symptoms* of the flooded engine, it's possible they were the *cause*. That is, already fouled and finally contributed to a flooding incident. For plugs that become carboned long enough, the spark can short across the carbon on the insulator, etching the insulator and forming a track that doesn't self-clean the way that plain carbon can. Also, the carbon can get fused to the insulator. There's a difference between "fluffy" carbon deposits and the harder "fused" carbon.

So, if you manage to clear the flood yourself and the engine returns to good operation, it's probably ok. If the dealer gets it, they may lean towards replacing the plugs since the flood was bad enough to be unrecoverable, and they also want to prevent a second service call. Another factor may be that part of the full-blown recovery is injection of a sizeable amount of oil into the intake. That's a whole lotta extra carbon. Also, if you don't already have the hot plugs that might make them more likely to replace.

I looked for that TSB on this web site:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/index.html

but cannot find it there. Is there another list with further TSBs?
I'm going to have it towed this afternoon.

The only thing I found:

Make : MAZDA Model : RX8 Year : 2004
Manufacturer : MAZDA NORTH AMERICAN OPERATIONS
Service Bulletin Num : 0102504 Date of Bulletin: JUL 21, 2004
NHTSA Item Number: 10009427
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:BATTERY
Summary:
BATTERY TEST PROCEDURE REQUIREMENTS. *TT

I think this is just a generic "how to test a battery" document.

Unless it is covered under this one:

Make : MAZDA Model : RX8 Year : 2004
Manufacturer : MAZDA NORTH AMERICAN OPERATIONS
Service Bulletin Num : 0101104 Date of Bulletin: APR 12, 2004
NHTSA Item Number: 10007575
Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Summary:
ENGINE CRANKS NO START. *TT

or this one:

Make : MAZDA Model : RX8 Year : 2004
Manufacturer : MAZDA NORTH AMERICAN OPERATIONS
Service Bulletin Num : 0102204 Date of Bulletin: JUN 02, 2004
NHTSA Item Number: 10008057
Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Summary:
MAZDA SPECIAL PROGRAM (MSP04) - ENGINE NO START, LACK OF POWER, DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES P2107, P2108, P2402, OR P0420 - POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) REFLASH. *TT

I would doubt that Mazda sent a TSB to the dealers telling them to replace the OEM battery with an Interstate battery :D

Dennis

Thanks GO48 & Nubo,

Good Answers.

Other than mentioning you need a charged battery to de-flood the car, the battery is not mentioned in the TSB.

In the battery "service tip" shown here:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-042-04.htm

it has the part number for the 640cca battery. I don't see any page that says "We screwed up and put too small a battery in the cars, when they come in replace them with the 640cca battery". So I guess really nothing for you to print and and take with.

As was mentioned, if you don't have the larger capacity battery whine about it while they are de-flooding your car and they should put one in for you :D

Dennis

Let me know your experience regarding the dealer you took it too - Royal, Putnam or other? As other locals would benefit from your experience, you can PM instead if you prefer.

Thanks....

I live in Capitola. So it gets towed to Marina Motor company.
Now the truck just arrived.

[QUOTE=Go48]

Carbon-fouled plugs can be cleaned with a special sand-blaster-like dodad, but it's easier and better to just replace carbon-fouled plugs. QUOTE]

Pretty sure that I read that sand blasting is not recommended for the plugs because of their coating (platinum?)

You would think Mazda could just program the ECU to do this for you - like a "turbo timer". No matter what you do, the ECU will detect the coolant temp is too low and when you turn off the key will do the "Exact" right rev up first....

Dennis

It's hard enough getting the average owner to understand the special features and capabilities of products. I can see it now. Owner gets freaked out by the revving of the engine he thought that he just shut off, lifts foot off of clutch and slams through the rear wall of the garage.

You won't be seeing this feature any time soon.

[QUOTE=Go48]

Carbon-fouled plugs can be cleaned with a special sand-blaster-like dodad, but it's easier and better to just replace carbon-fouled plugs. QUOTE]

Pretty sure that I read that sand blasting is not recommended for the plugs because of their coating (platinum?)
I haven't seen that, but you're probably correct. Of course, you could always use the tried and true method used by dirt bikers running two-stroke engines. (Frequent fouling of plugs caused by premix. Oh, that's oil in the gas. Sound familiar? :) ) Take a small piece of sandpaper and work it around inside the plug to grind the carbon off the insulator. Real high tech approach, but it got me going more than once with my bike out in the boonies.

Several loose flooding threads were merged here...

Thanks for all the input guys. I had rev'd it to pretty exactly 3000 rpm, knowing that at 3250 the second port opens.

I don't want to wear out my starter unnecessarily, so I guess I have to bite the bullett and have it towed to the dealer.

Peter

I had it towed. So far so good.

The tow guy brings it to the dealer; they ask him to tow it a slight incline (uphill). The tow guy tells one of the mechanics to lower the car as he pulls uphill to avoid scraping of the front bumper.

(I and some other customers watch the whole thing)

- [the mechanic:] does nothing
- [me:] (I see the front lip screeeech.....)
- [the crowd:] booooh
- [me:] STOP STOP
... other mechanics joining to watch ....
- [tow truck guy:] hey man, I told you to lower it so that the front end comes up!
- [mechanic:] (pushes the lever on the tow truck - unfortunately wrong direction)
The car is now higher at the end and even lower at the front. I temporary lose my voice

- [tow truck guy:] (continues to drive forward)
- [my rx-8:] screeech screeech screeech
- [the crowd:] booooh boooh booooh
- [other mechanics:] better not watch us while we work on your car

The mechanic who "operated" the tow truck level ended up working on my car. Only one additional dent this time above the right front wheel, I think, plus the bottom of the front lip, of course.

I guess I got off easy today. Plus it took him only one hour to replace the plugs. Gotta love this service department.

P.S.:
Yes, this was my *lucky* day. You all understand now why I wrote "I bite the bullett and have it towed to the dealer", right?

I didn't know about the whole flooding drama until it happened to me.I bought it used,and I moved it 20 feet two days later because I was blocking my fiance's car in the driveway.30 min later I can't start it. Mazda towed it,repaired it and changed the battery and took care of a "recall" for free(covered under warranty)the recall was something to do with loss of power at start up.Go figure. But now im anal about letting it warm up.This sucks, but its the price to pay for such a cool car!

Flooding???

Why Are You People Doing Driving In Water? Rx-8 Is Not A Boat!

My continuing story if anyone's interested, I have flooded twice, I'm in NJ, and the cold definitely plays into this, I have been talking to Mazda in CA, and they have just completed adding the higher amp battery, HD starter, plugs and N flash. There is a substantial difference when starting, you can tell you have more power from the battery, the starter spins at a much higher RPM, and you don't have that feeling with the old system that it just about starts. I would have attempted to turn the engine off after I started it at the dealer, but they had it brought around pre warmed up. I haven't had the guts to test it since it was only back one day before it was towed again. This time, the engine would not accerlerate, just idled at about 2800 rpm, supposedly a sending unit from the electronic accelerator was bad. Has anyone else had this problem?


Please tell me that u dont have your 8 in Florida. If u do, then why are u saying the flooding problem is blown WAY out of proportion? If u live where it is cold and you start your 8 and then shut it off quickly, U WILL FLOOD THE ENGINE. It has always been a problem with the rotary. They hadn't fixed it 20 years. So what the hell r u talking about? Please stop givng shitty advice

I have flooded twice, I'm in NJ, and the cold definitely plays into this, I have been talking to Mazda in CA, and they have just completed adding the higher amp battery, HD starter, plugs and N flash.

I have seen the reference to a new heavy duty starter in another thread. Is Mazda really pushing this as part of their effort to address the flooding issue? It makes sense but I am just surprised that their initial cut was so far off-base on this issue.

Sorry to hear about the tow because of the electronics problem. :(

BTW, is yours an MT or AT?

Mt

It dawns on me that one of the reasons Mazda may have gotten itself in more trouble than it anticipated with flooding was the need to keep the car's weight down. The 8 was on the edge of incurring a gas-guzzler tax in the U.S. at its rating of 18-24mpg; the new "heavy duty" battery Mazda's recommending is apparently significantly heavier than the former stock battery (info anyone?). I wonder how much weight a heavier battery/starter etc. etc. could have added, and how the extra weight affects the fuel economy. No doubt it wasn't the only concern, cost being the likliest factor and squeezing everything in being another, but it was a tough engineering problem -- how much flooding protection does the car need before the extra protection becomes a waste of money/weight?

I vote for yes. Moved the car to wash it. Flooded. Towed. Thought the M flash was suppose to have fix this.

I vote for yes. Moved the car to wash it. Flooded. Towed. Thought the M flash was suppose to have fix this.

The M/N Flash is not a fix, it simply reduces the chances of it occuring. See the TSB and the video. Mazda still warns that the car must be fully warmed up befor turning off. The video even recommends reving to 3,000 RPM for 10 seconds, letting it return to idle then shutting it off.

I have had my 8 for 16 months, and it has flooded 3 times in the last 4 months, which meant getting it towed. It has been a constant problem and it just sucks. The service center said that they have replaced the spark plugs and battery on the last 2 floodings. It is at service right now. Mazda roadside picked it up this morning. Oh and the CD player will not read CD's anymore. These are the problems I am getting with my RX-8. Don't get me wrong, I love my car but I am highly persuing the Lemon Law. Of course my car has 30k miles but I just want my car to run for more than 2 months without a problem.

:( Joined the ranks of the flooded to my great displeasure!. Backed her out of garage on saturday; gave her a wash and polish; put her back in the garage.

Tried to start her on Tuesday - guess what NO LUCK!

Called out the European assistance who had the following tips:

1) Never switch off when cold (great for security!)

2) Rev engine to 4000 revs and count to 5 before switching off

Any other useful tips?

In the US, Mazda released a product support video with the following specific instructions to be used if a short trip cannot be avoided:

1. Let the engine idle until it has reached normal operating temperature or for 5 minutes.

2. Raise the RPM to only 3000 RPM for 10 seconds
(at 3500 RPM you engage the secondary ports and more fuel enters the system)

3. Let the engine return to idle

4. Turn off engine

wow..after having read all the threads i am really having second thoughts about getting the 8. what really sucks is that after having done all my research and trying to find the right car for me, i really fell in love w/the 8. now i'm hearing about all these "flooding" problems and i'm concerned. my question to all you "flooded" victims is how much $$$$ is it to get the spark plugs cleared out or removed everytime you car floods and you need service?? Let's suppose it's $50. if this happens 2x a week, we're talking about $400 a month..meaning that you will be paying double your payments in acutality. i really love the car and still would like to purchase it, but i need some kind of assurance that it's worth buying. any advice or opinons would be greatly appreciated.

To my knowledge, Mazda has been very good about covering "flooding" issues under warranty up to and including replacing plugs, batteries and starters. It is a much bigger problem for automatics that manuals. If you follow the rules (up to date on flashes, don't shut it off cold) people seem to manage to avoid flooding entirely. It certainly is not a weekly occurance.

Remember this thread is focused on the "down side". For a counterpoint check out:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=57102

Mazda picks up the tab for everything for this problem while under warranty......but what happens after the expiration could be a financial burden.

Mazda picks up the tab for everything for this problem while under warranty......but what happens after the expiration could be a financial burden.

Yup, you got 4 years or 50K miles to work with Mazda to figure out how to reliably avoid flooding based on your driving habits. If you haven't solved the problem by then, then you probably need to switch to another car.

i definately agree with you bowlhead. that is why i think i'm just gonna go w/the lease instead of financing. i really wanted to keep the car b/c i think it's gonna hold it's value down the road and i don't think Mazda will come out w/a better sports car then th 8 down the road. i think i'm gonna be paranoid when i get the 8...god damn flooding!!

I left for a 4 week long vacation to Rome, Italy and when I came back the battery of my 2004 RX-8 was dead. I tried to start the engine with it hooked up to another battery but it would not start, so I called a Mazda Assistance and they sent a tow-truck to tow me to a dealer initially not even wanting to jump-start it but then they agreed it made sense to try. The tow truck driver jump started me but the car did not start.

On Monday the dealer fixed my RX-8 under warranty... they replaced two spark plugs, and updated my PCM to N flash at a cost of close to 240$ that was covered by warranty... phew!

I guess the issue was caused by trying to start the car with a dead battery.... next time I will disconnect it prior to my departure.

Anyway Mazda stood behind their product and fixed it all for free - I am grateful.

I left for a 4 week long vacation to Rome, Italy and when I came back the battery of my 2004 RX-8 was dead. I tried to start the engine with it hooked up to another battery but it would not start, so I called a Mazda Assistance and they sent a tow-truck to tow me to a dealer initially not even wanting to jump-start it but then they agreed it made sense to try. The tow truck driver jump started me but the car did not start.

On Monday the dealer fixed my RX-8 under warranty... they replaced two spark plugs, and updated my PCM to N flash at a cost of close to 240$ that was covered by warranty... phew!

I guess the issue was caused by trying to start the car with a dead battery.... next time I will disconnect it prior to my departure.

Anyway Mazda stood behind their product and fixed it all for free - I am grateful.
I suggest you keep a trickle charger connected to the battery when it is going to sit idle for a few weeks. No need to remove the battery. Just make sure the charger is the type referred to as a maintenance charger.

I left for a 4 week long vacation to Rome, Italy and when I came back the battery of my 2004 RX-8 was dead. I tried to start the engine with it hooked up to another battery but it would not start, so I called a Mazda Assistance and they sent a tow-truck to tow me to a dealer initially not even wanting to jump-start it but then they agreed it made sense to try. The tow truck driver jump started me but the car did not start.

On Monday the dealer fixed my RX-8 under warranty... they replaced two spark plugs, and updated my PCM to N flash at a cost of close to 240$ that was covered by warranty... phew!

I guess the issue was caused by trying to start the car with a dead battery.... next time I will disconnect it prior to my departure.

Anyway Mazda stood behind their product and fixed it all for free - I am grateful.

So the engine flooded??

So the engine flooded??
It sure did. In fact they also replaced two of the spark plugs. I remember reading that to correct flooding you would have to replace the spark plugs and do several other things.

i'm joining the club this morning, flooded it. i tried what the manual says, but didn't work. I had no time this morning, I was getting late for work. I'll try it again later this afternoon

Yesterday my car flooded for the 1st time ever. I had driven it the day before for several miles. Got in it yesterday to go to breakfast with the wife and it cranked and sputtered for a sec then died. I tried cranking again and the car would not start.

I could smell fuel in the exhaust so I knew having a "fly by wire" setup for the throttle that if you hold the accelerator to the floor the PCM will not deliver any fuel. After a few tries she finally cranked over and ran like total shit for about 30 sec. Smoked heavily too.

I never thought this would happen to me since I follow the Mazda procedures to the T when it comes to starting and running the car. It kinda cought me off guard.

I'd like to have the latest PCM update done to help avoid this again but don't want to make the car run like ass. Any suggestions?

Go to the dealer and tell them what happened. There are TSBs out and the dealer has a new starter, upgraded plugs, battery, and N-flash. They came out after I flooded mine so I only was able to get the plugs. Got N-flashed last week and it is the best flash yet.

I regularly empty the changer in my '8 without a key - simply pressing the eject button repeatedly - with appropriate pauses for CD's to change).

Every car I have used a CD player in does the same.

You do know that you can eject the whole changer by holding the eject button down for about 2secs until it beeps and it'll spit them all one after the other.
Same goes for the load feature.

thanx to this board I was able to start it without a tow. I did the start with the gas pedal fully depressed a few times and it finally kicked. I had to charge battery with jumper cables because i really drained it.

Do you have the original battery? Keep in mind that deep-discharging a regular car battery will reduce its capacity and longevity; making floods more likely in the future. Add to that the fact that the stock battery, until recently, was rather under-capacitized for the needs of the RX-8.

Mazda offers a newer higher-capacity battery as a replacement. Or you might consider the aftermarket.

In my opinion, a good replacement is the Optima yellow-top battery (model D35). It not only has way more cranking amps and higher amp-hour rating than the stock battery; it's designed for deep-discharge and also holds its voltage better when partially discharged. That gives you better cranking when it really counts -- like the 2nd or 3rd try at deflooding your RX-8. Also, it can be deeply drained with negligeable permanent impact to the battery's performance. Plus it is non-spillable and maintenance-free. In my opinion, this battery should be OEM for the RX-8.

Check out the DIY section for various Optima installations.

Go to the following link and you`ll find the Mazda tech bulletin about flooding. Very informative..

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/bulletins_index.html

Good luck with this - mine just did it last nite and its getting towed to the dealers this morning.

Tom

Wow - just read all the previous postings about this flooding problem. There is so much waffle and bluff. Bottom line is that if you stall your car which has modern computerized engine management, it should not flood when you try to restart it.

Its probably an idiosyncracy of the rotary engine..and its probably here to live.

What upsets me is that I got new plugs on warranty but Mazda made me buy 50% of a new battery....when the existing item was only 18 mnths old. Their excuse - it wasn`t capable of holding its specified charge. Knowing that to be the case, then its basically buggered is is not? When a component of the car is buggered within the warranty period, surely it should be covered under waranty. Are Mazda telling us that batteries are wear-out replacement items then? Thats a new one....unique to the world automotive industry.

Tom

Are Mazda telling us that batteries are wear-out replacement items then? Thats a new one....unique to the world automotive industry.

Batteries are a wear-out replacement item, usually on a graduated scale. Check the Mazda (or any other manufacturer) warranty book.

All this time spent planning to buy the RX-8, and now I finally get around to reading this nearly 1000 post thread and I might not buy one. 1/3 of people have flooding issues and most of them have had the car on average what about a year?

I live somewhere where we would be switching cars around alot (small driveway). I use to think this was only a problem with start, stop, and start right away again, but now it seems to be a problem with even just a start and stop. Even if you don't start it up again until the next day, there still seems to be the potential of flooding it becauase you only ran it for a minute.

It seems the "Flash" TSB people have mentioned hasn't fixed things. At least that's my impression

actually the start it move it in the driveway and shut it off again is the most likely to lead to a flood. the flash has mostly fixed things but it is still likely to happen if the procedure to rev it etc isnt followed.

So if I move it in the drive way, running it for 1 minute and then just rev it up to 4000 or so first before shutting it off I'll probably be OK? I live in western Oregon where in the winter it usually only gets down into the 30s at night (sometimes 20s) by the way if that means anything.

I'm considering buying a new 2004 from a dealer this weekend, so I should just make sure he's done all the TSBs first, including giving me a better battery and the most up to date flash?

Both the Mazda TSB and the "Product Update" still say you should let the engine warm up, before turning it off, to avoid flooding.

The exact "Product Update" video procedure for short trips is:

1. Warm engine to operating temperature or for 5 minutes.
2. Raise RPM to 3000 for 10 seconds
3. Return the engine to idle
4. Turn off the engine

I live in Virginia where winters are usually mid-high 30s with some 20s and have had no problems, but I always make sure the engine is warmed up before turning off.

The "must have" service for the RX-8 are the two recalls (MT transmission damper and passenger airbag wiring) and to have the N PCM flash installed. Everything else is pretty much only needed if your particular car has that specific problem.

So if I move it in the drive way, running it for 1 minute and then just rev it up to 4000 or so first before shutting it off I'll probably be OK? I live in western Oregon where in the winter it usually only gets down into the 30s at night (sometimes 20s) by the way if that means anything.

I'm considering buying a new 2004 from a dealer this weekend, so I should just make sure he's done all the TSBs first, including giving me a better battery and the most up to date flash?


i live in Tigard Oregon:) and yes you should be fine:)

I just signed on a slightly used '04 yesterday. I live about a mile from work and it will be my daily commuter, is this a recipe for trouble?

From what I understand I either need to make sure the car has ran for 5 min. or rev to 3k for 10 sec., is that right?

Thanks in advance.

The "Product Update" DVD says for short trips let the car run until it reaches operating temp or for 5 minutes, then 3K for 10 sec, let got to idle and shut off. It is unclear if all this is "required" to avoid flooding from a short trip.

In reality it seems that ambient temperature and battery strength are also factors plus whether it is an AT or MT (ATs seem more prone to flooding).

Personally, I always let the engine warm up but almost never do the 3K rev thing and I have not had a problem. But I have an MT that is garage kept in Virginia where it seldom drops below freezing for extended periods. Other people say they don't do anything at all and have not had a problem.

You will have to find out what works for you. Hopefully your 1 mile commute will bring the car to operating temp.

I just signed on a slightly used '04 yesterday. I live about a mile from work and it will be my daily commuter, is this a recipe for trouble?

From what I understand I either need to make sure the car has ran for 5 min. or rev to 3k for 10 sec., is that right?

Thanks in advance.
Do yourself a favor and don't drive this car one mile and then shut it down. You will not be happy when the car fails to start the first time because it floods or because the battery is dead.

Also, if you have to let it sit and warm up each day for 5 minutes before driving the one mile to work, your gas mileage will be absurd--think 10 mpg or worse--and the spark plugs will quickly become fouled. Try to find another way to get yourself to and from work--like walk, bike, drive another car, or maybe move farther away from work. :D

OK, there seems to be a discrepancy with the 3K engine rev procedure.

The Mazda DVD says rev it to 3K, then let it return to idle before shutting the engine off. Most people on here recommend to rev it to 3K, then kill the engine immediately so that it will spin down with no fuel being injected into the chamber, thus clearing the chamber of fuel.

While I don't really like doing it often, I have done the 3K rev/immediate shut off procedure several times when I've not had time to let the car warm up, and it's worked well for me. I can't really understand the logic of revving it to 3K then letting it return to idle.

Which is the more effective procedure, and can someone explain why you'd let it return to idle if you're trying to avoid flooding? Thanks!

can someone explain why you'd let it return to idle if you're trying to avoid flooding? Thanks!

I assume the strategy is the 3K RPM for 10 seconds stabizes the engine to a known reasonably lean mixture (there is another thread showing this from CANSCAN data). As best as I can figure at 3K RPM there is still a lot more fuel going into the engine than at idle so the dropping it to idle briefly before shutoff minimizes the fuel put out by the injectors.

In terms of "blowing" the system out, assuming it takes 2 seconds for the engine to wind down, 3K represents 100 revs and idle represents 40 revs. 40 revs (or 13.3 cycles of 1.3 liters) is probably more than adequate to clear our all three combustion spaces and the intake manifold.

This is conjecture. To know for sure you would need to ask a Mazda engineer why they publish this admittedly odd procedure.

Thanks msrecant. Appreciate the theory.

People .... this is getting too much on the engine flooding issue. I hate to say it , but some drivers are paranoid about starting a rotary engine.

I have no problems in starting my engine, however, there is a TSB on the type of plugs to use. Have your dealer replace with the hotter plug Madza recommends. All under warranty before 50,000 miles. Will not cost you a penny, except for the gas to get to your dealer.

Next have the ECU flashed to the latest N revision. This rev. sets the proper air/fuel mixture ratio for the combustion chamber. Also under warranty.

Drive the car as you would normally would with a piston engine.

"As a propulsion engineer, you cannot deisgn and manufacture two similiar engine parts alike and therefore some people have problems while others don't"

velocity_blitz,

What you say is basically true. However, even with the N flash, hot plugs, bigger battery and new starter, Mazda continues to publish that short trips can cause flooding and should be avoided (both the TSB and the Product Update DVD).

I think it's important to realize that the poll which shows more than 1 out of 3 engines flooding began over a year and a half ago. We've since had at least three updates to the ECU designed to alleviate the "pig rich" air/fuel ratios at startup. These improvements have gone a long way toward addressing the flooding issue.
Though I always err on the side of caution, I still believe the flooding problem is somewhat overhyped. Try to let the engine reach operating temperature before shutting it down, otherwise rev the engine to 3k and then shut it down. This has always worked for me.
By the way, I had to move my 8 from the driveway to let my wife get by the other morning. I shut it off after two minutes. Twenty minutes later it started up just fine (M flash and new 640 cca battery).

had my 8 for 7 months now , no probs through winter at all, couple days ago...wasnt thinking moved car from street to my driveway...30 sec tops, shut it down..went about my business. next day i try n start..and yep...nada...tried the official mazda procedure..still nothing...ended up having it towed to closest dealer...who actually got it back to me same day., with new plugs/Flash and upgraded battery. im still wary..and ever since its in the back of my mind. DONT SHUT IT DOWN unless its been running a while..

I wish all of you reading this would go ahead and get the updates performed and avoid being caught in the flood boat.
Those of you who have had everything done: Don't worry, be happy! :)

I just got a 2004 a few days ago. How can I check that the battery, plugs, and flash are up to date? Should the battery be a certain model?

Thanks.

I just got a 2004 a few days ago. How can I check that the battery, plugs, and flash are up to date? Should the battery be a certain model?

Thanks.
The battery and plugs are what they are. Unless you have a failure of either of those there is no reason to check. Presumably, you have the OEM battery and plugs that were installed at the factory. That is, if this is a "new" '04. If you have a problem with either of them in the future, they will be replaced under warranty. Specs for both items are in the owners manual.

The update level of the PCM can be checked by the dealer and as long as you are at "M" or "N" level you will be good to go.

mine got flooded yesterday by moving it a couple of feet after washing it. it wasn't at operating temperature when i moved it. i didn't use it for a day after that. it wouldn't start the day i was going to drive. I was going to take to mazda to have it serviced. to save money i called up my buddy who has an fb, he said to take out the fuel pump fuse and then crank it till it runs. i did just that... took a few tries and it worked! it smoked like a beeoottchh after that. i also took the advise from one of the links here to take out the air sensor thing to save your cat. hope this works for those who are stuck in the same situation.

I have own rotaries sine 1982 and got into modifying them about 5 years ago and one thing that I've found out thru the years is what a friend ofmines told me is true and that is that not only the Renesis but any rotary engine if you start it and just shut it off you running a risk that at any time can get flooded, usually I have left the accelerator have way down (others reccomend all the way down) and have started. Now my RX8 first got flooded a week ago and I have just turned 21k plus miles when it happene after a few days that I left it in the garage parked I started the car and just shut it off ignoring what I've should have done, next day in the morning it came on for a moment and it shut off immediately, of course I called that friend of mines immediately after I got it started again(which it took me about 5 minutes of trying and I was not going to do like I do to my older RX 7's that I put a shot of oil thru the intake) mainly I called that friend of mines as he's a Mazda mechanic manager/specialist/tech because I wanted to check for upgrades if any as he's done other times in my car and this was the perfect excuse for it and he told me that what you need to do is that either you warm up the car like in normal operating temperature or if you doit just to move it accross the street or just simply turn it on that you have to rev the car three times at 3,000 rpms quickly and the shut it off because you do not want no fuel stored in the rotors that causes flood in that type of engine and I know that is truth from past experiences and that it works, I tried it since as I thought since it was a new car it would not happen...well...it's a rotary...regardless it's new or not, it's the same principle.

i am going to be getting an rx8 this wekend and i have a couple questions. i did not really find out exactly the answer i was looking for. ok, here goes, but please dont flame me. i live about 3 miles from work and i always let my car warm up before going (it is in my morning routine.) when i get to work, i probably have had the car running for about 20 minutes (8 while driving and the rest at idle in the driveway). will i have to do the 3000 rpm shut off procedure or will i be fine without doing it? does the 3000 rpm shutoff only apply when the car is not allowed to warm properly?
thanks you all! i look forward to sharing my experiences with everyone.

If you work a few miles away that's not a big deal. Starting the car, moving it a few feet, and then shutting it off (or stalling it) is probably when most people have had problems. I've accidentally shut off and stalled my 8 after a few seconds of being started cold and haven't had any problems.

Also, this thread was started in 10/2003. I think the lastest ECU flashes have addressed the cold rich mixture issue that caused the flooding. I think mine's N.

i thought everyone was still saying that you could still flood them with a cold shut off. i just want to make sure i am not going to run into any problems when i go to work on monday (or try to leave). i dont think i will have to worry about the cold shut down if it is ok to do as i stated. is it also true that once the engine is warmed up, you can shut it off then restart it without a problem?

Sampson - I'd say if you drove it like a normal car you won;t have any problems. Just in case, for any drives where the temp gauge doesn;t reach normal temp, rev it to 3K before shutting off.

thanks a lot! i was just unsure about exactly what to do.

I have own rotaries sine 1982 and got into modifying them about 5 years ago and one thing that I've found out thru the years is what a friend ofmines told me is true and that is that not only the Renesis but any rotary engine if you start it and just shut it off you running a risk that at any time can get flooded, usually I have left the accelerator have way down (others reccomend all the way down) and have started. Now my RX8 first got flooded a week ago and I have just turned 21k plus miles when it happene after a few days that I left it in the garage parked I started the car and just shut it off ignoring what I've should have done, next day in the morning it came on for a moment and it shut off immediately, of course I called that friend of mines immediately after I got it started again(which it took me about 5 minutes of trying and I was not going to do like I do to my older RX 7's that I put a shot of oil thru the intake) mainly I called that friend of mines as he's a Mazda mechanic manager/specialist/tech because I wanted to check for upgrades if any as he's done other times in my car and this was the perfect excuse for it and he told me that what you need to do is that either you warm up the car like in normal operating temperature or if you doit just to move it accross the street or just simply turn it on that you have to rev the car three times at 3,000 rpms quickly and the shut it off because you do not want no fuel stored in the rotors that causes flood in that type of engine and I know that is truth from past experiences and that it works, I tried it since as I thought since it was a new car it would not happen...well...it's a rotary...regardless it's new or not, it's the same principle.


Now THAT is a sentence.

lol the fulstop (.) must be missing from his keyboard:)

I just saw the updated TSB today. If you have flooding problems get the work done. I thought about creating one just to get the new plugs, battery, possible cat convertor, etc. :D

Just got my Rx8 a couple of days ago from a private sale.
signed all the papers.. went thru all the formalites.
Hopped in the car.. ready to drive it away... wouldn't start. :'(

it turns out he started the car and turned it off without letter the car warm up.
mazda came and towed it at night. the next day i was told the car had flooded, and the spark plugs had fouled up.

the mazda dealers replaced the spark plugs, the cables for the spark plugs, they changed the starter motor to a higher spinning one and they also flashed the PCM.
all this was covered under warranty.

Is this our first Au flood?

Is this our first Au flood?

No mate, we've had a few, but the number reported on this forum is less than 10. Hymee is actively trying to flood his, but hasn't been able to in two years. The flashes we have in our cars here are different to the ones the guys in the States have had, and I think that has been the difference. Having bugger all snow here has helped too.

Gomez.

my rx8 has starting probs 8 times failed it 18 months old had a new catilistic converter as old 1 died on me had to new engine managment chips . this car does long jurnyies it bin a problem . the assistance cover enginers couldnt get it going 4 times

my rx8 has starting probs 8 times failed. it 18 months old had a new catilistic converter as old 1 died on me .had to new engine managment chips . this car does long jurnyies it bin a problem . the assistance cover enginers couldnt get it going 4 times

I have had my RX8 into the dealership three times in the past week (towed in on a flat bed) after call stalling out in hot weather, in the middle of a very busy intersection once while turning left!! Bummer. They changed the plugs and have now sent the chip back to California after reflashing it five times.

I have had my RX8 into the dealership three times in the past week (towed in on a flat bed) after call stalling out in hot weather, in the middle of a very busy intersection once while turning left!! Bummer. They changed the plugs and have now sent the chip back to California after reflashing it five times.

sounds like a bigger issue than flooding. hope they get it worked out.

roxi where do you live?

Michigan

Hope so too. It has been happening since February when engine started making noises almost like ticking. Deceleration problems started then and now at 19,000 miles I can't even drive the vehicle. I'm terrified I will get killed.

it was hot in february in Michigan?

Nope, cold, cold, cold. After warming up car, upon acceleration, engine made noises in first and second. Took the car in two different times and they said they couldn't duplicate the problem. That's when it started decelerating and it continually got worse until it started stalling. Engine just quits........

clogged cat. they dont always throw a cel. i have posted pics on here of one that is completly trashed but no cel. did you car ever have a flood prior to Feb that you know of?

none at all. I have read of many problems happening around 18,000??? I have driven the car for two years without a hitch.

get someone to drop the CAT and have a look inside

I'll call the dealership to see if they checked it. What's all the conversation about recalling all the engines on 2004, 2005? Do the dealerships have the notice?

there is no such recall.

Thanks. Will await Flash to return from CA. Would love to have situation fixed so I can drive the car! Don't feel comfortable after being stranded three times so far due to stalling with oncoming traffic and coming from behind at the same time. Can't restart so I just sit and pray.......

I flooded mine yesterday for the first time in ~45 000 kilometres (~ 27000 miles). I've been working from home this last week and hadn't driven in for a couple of days. Then I made the mistake of reversing it from my garage to move something on a very cold morning (just above freezing) and then turning the car off. It would not start a few hours later, and the roadside assistance people could not get it started either. Flooded.

However, my local dealer replaced the plugs (which were due in 5000 kays for the next service anyway), and gave me a 600CCA battery and an upgraded starter motor all under warranty. Very happy. Worth flooding it just for all the new kit. The new starter motor is great, and the new plugs also make the car seem a lot more responsive (not that it was sluggish before).

clogged cat. they dont always throw a cel. i have posted pics on here of one that is completly trashed but no cel. did you car ever have a flood prior to Feb that you know of?

Where do I find the pic?

There seemed to full disclosure about this issue before I purchased mine. Actually there were several very specific disclosures about special operating instructions.

I really like these features, I believe the "extra work" operating procedures goes with territory of a true performance vehicle. I dont think they are threre to enhance sales.

I was amazed in my pre-purchase web research to find such a large, passionate and dedicated group of RX8 owners. I really enjoy my car every time I drive it, as you all know.

[. . .] I made the mistake of reversing it from my garage to move something on a very cold morning (just above freezing) and then turning the car off. It would not start a few hours later, and the roadside assistance people could not get it started either. Flooded.

However, my local dealer replaced the plugs (which were due in 5000 kays for the next service anyway), and gave me a 600CCA battery and an upgraded starter motor all under warranty. [. . .]

I forgot to let my 8 warm up one day, and moved it in the driveway for less than 30 seconds and turned it off. A week later, when I went to start it, it would not. My brother and I set out to get it running...so, here is what we did:

We hit the web for answers, and found nothing...(this was about a year ago) So we tried popping the clutch, a few times...failure.

Next we went to the dealer and bought the new plugs. ($160 NGKs...) We pulled the fuse for the gas pump, took out the plugs and turned it over to blow the gas out of the motor. After replacing the plugs, it still wouldn't work...

Then, we hit the web again in a collaborative effort to find something helpful. And there it was, a service bulletain explaining the problem. (I'll see if I can get a link later on, I have it printed out in my glove box)

If you hold the accelerator to the floor, the RX-8 will NOT spray more fuel into the motor...it chokes. Turn it over for about 10 seconds like that, and then try to start it normally. ...repeat until it starts, and let it warm up this time. I seriously doubt the plugs needed changed at all...the dealers know about this, and they just don't tell you.

Conclusion: If your RX-8 won't start, DO NOT TOW IT ANYWHERE, try this FIRST!!!

We knew that trick, and tried it. Didn't work. The car was too flooded. Even too truck batteries would not make it turn over. Anyway, getting it towed to the dealer got me free plugs and a new free battery and a new free starter motor.

There's a DIY that talks about the tech trick of squirting some washer fluid into the manifold service ports. Apparently some of the older Rotaries actually had a small resevoir and a button on the dash to let you do this.

I haven't tried it, but got some tubing in my trunk, just in case.

There's a DIY that talks about the tech trick of squirting some washer fluid into the manifold service ports. Apparently some of the older Rotaries actually had a small resevoir and a button on the dash to let you do this.

It was Starting Fluid, not Washer fluid. Although it was housed in a container similar to a washer fluid reservoir. Early models had a button and later they made it automatic.

However, it was to deal with cold weather condensation in the carburetor and not engine flooding of an FI engine.

Mine was towed to the dealer today because it would not start. I was out of town and 5 days ago my roommate moved it so the driveway could be cleaned. It has 18000 miles on it. Now that I returned from my trip it will not start. I tried every trick mentioned on the web and the Mazda service guy tried a few more. Once it seemed to almost start and coughed up a bunch of smoke from exhaust. Seems to me like this is a high price to pay for moving your car 5 feet.

Does anyone know if a turbo timer would work in this car. Perhaps it is time for a call to HKS. Seems like Mazda should have built in a function to do what after-market turbo timers already do. How many of these will they repair under warranty before deciding that it is not enough to state in manual "never turn off cold engine" .... sometimes it simply cannot be avoided.

Does anyone know if a turbo timer would work in this car. Perhaps it is time for a call to HKS. Seems like Mazda should have built in a function to do what after-market turbo timers already do. How many of these will they repair under warranty before deciding that it is not enough to state in manual "never turn off cold engine" .... sometimes it simply cannot be avoided.

You describe a classic RX-8 flood. The "Product Update" DVD says for short trips let the car run until it reaches operating temp or for 5 minutes, then 3K for 10 sec, let got to idle and shut off. It is unclear if all this is "required" to avoid flooding from a short trip.

Regardless, I would think it unlikely that a turbo-timer would solve a problem with a Mazda recommended "solution" this complex (IMHO).

Does anyone know if a turbo timer would work in this car..

There's a DIY someone put a turbo timer in. Of course if you have a manual, you're going to have to wait 30 seconds before parking it in gear.

This won't necessarily fix the problem.

What you want to do is install a fuel cutoff to starve the engine. I've seen old RX-7s with this mod. The fuel pump is wired through a switch that can be flipped on or off.

Just watched my White 8 leave on the back of a flatbed on it's way to the dealership.
I moved the car out of my garage then back in without a warm up so that I could wash it (this was Sunday).
Came out Monday to go for a drive and she wouldn't start. Strong smell of fuel so I tried the Emergency start procedure in the Owners Manual and still no workie.
Details : 2005 Stock 6 Speed 13,100 kms

Not a good start to my holidays.

On the bright side the dealer said they had the parts in to fix one of the recalls. Something to do with the exhaust and adding another heat shield.

OMG was that orange foam I just saw coming off my car! lol

What was the ambient temp like today up there? Do you know what battery is in your car? Battery state of charge is a big culprit. I would think that an 05 would have all the latest computer settings. Thanks for posting this and please share some more info when you can
Paul.

I got a question for you guys, When you car is flooded and you tow it to the dealership, are you paying for the plugs out of your own pocket?

I believe Mazda is still paying for flooded engine repair under the standard warranty.

As an aside, just remember, Mazda has a step-by-step procedure to fix a flooded vehicle, so you are not guaranteed to get new plugs, new battery, new starter, etc. even though in many cases dealerships do a plug change and oil change as standard operating procedure.

I got a question for you guys, When you car is flooded and you tow it to the dealership, are you paying for the plugs out of your own pocket?
The first and last time it happened to me was after leaving the car parked for 4 weeks. When I got back it would not start and it flooded so I called Mazda Assistance and they had my car towed to a dealer. The dealer flashed my PCM and changed plugs but I did not get charged for anything.

The software they put on my car made it very jerky at low revs so when I took it in for the 10k miles service they updated it and it is much better now!

Just watched my White 8 leave on the back of a flatbed on it's way to the dealership.
I moved the car out of my garage then back in without a warm up so that I could wash it (this was Sunday).
Came out Monday to go for a drive and she wouldn't start. Strong smell of fuel so I tried the Emergency start procedure in the Owners Manual and still no workie.
Details : 2005 Stock 6 Speed 13,100 kms

Not a good start to my holidays.

On the bright side the dealer said they had the parts in to fix one of the recalls. Something to do with the exhaust and adding another heat shield.

OMG was that orange foam I just saw coming off my car! lol
About the recalls.... one was to avoid a possible leak from the tank and thus fire (amongst other problems) and the other was for a possible loss of steering due to possible cracks on joint arms... wow... two potentially fatal issues. Luckily the exhaust heat shielding was done on my 10k miles service but they weren't aware of the other recall so I have to take her back in...

Where's the TSB for the upgraded starter motor? Is there one? I can't seem to find it mentioned anywhere in the ones Rosenthall has listed. Did I miss it?

Where's the TSB for the upgraded starter motor? Is there one? I can't seem to find it mentioned anywhere in the ones Rosenthall has listed. Did I miss it?

I don't believe there is a TSB for this. I have seen in this thread (and several other flooding threads) references to where Mazda changed out the starter and put in an even bigger battery (something like 800+ CCA) to address chronic flooding. You would need to do a search for the details.

It is also unclear whether the new starter and "even bigger battery" are standard on current production RX-8s. If someone knows for sure, please chime in.

I don't believe there is a TSB for this. I have seen in this thread (and several other flooding threads) references to where Mazda changed out the starter and put in an even bigger battery (something like 800+ CCA) to address chronic flooding. You would need to do a search for the details.

It is also unclear whether the new starter and "even bigger battery" are standard on current production RX-8s. If someone knows for sure, please chime in.

As far as I know also, no TSB, you only need a' history' of one flooding episode, I was told at my dealer. I qualified (a year ago, hauling in from cottage on a flat top, new plugs ..N/C) and had the upgrade installed two weeks ago along with the 'R' flash. It took about three days for the starter to come in from Mazda Canada. There are 2 versions: one for the 6 speed and another for the auto. Same output- different mounting brackets.

Rev the engine to 3k, then turn the ignition off right as you left off the throttle. Never had a hard start following this procedure.

As far as I know also, no TSB, you only need a' history' of one flooding episode, I was told at my dealer. I qualified (a year ago, hauling in from cottage on a flat top, new plugs ..N/C) and had the upgrade installed two weeks ago along with the 'R' flash. It took about three days for the starter to come in from Mazda Canada. There are 2 versions: one for the 6 speed and another for the auto. Same output- different mounting brackets.

APAUL,

I'm curious. Did they upgrade the battery at the same time? I have heard that the new starter needs more than the 640 CCA battery specified in the Replacement Battery TSB.

Never had a problem until I had 18,000 miles on it. I became confident I would never experience it then it happened, washed and pulled it back in garage like I did at least 20 times before, next day it was flooded.

Never had a problem until I had 18,000 miles on it. I became confident I would never experience it then it happened, washed and pulled it back in garage like I did at least 20 times before, next day it was flooded.

Sorry to hear about your trouble. From what I've seen, PCM flash level, ambient temperature and battery condition can all be factors in a "flood". There are probably a bunch of other variables involved too. Also, while a short trip is "risky behavior" there is no guarantee it will cause a flooded engine any more than one or more successful short trips guarantee that you will never flood. Probably why Mazda still recommends they be avoided.

Still, its a bitch when it happens.

I cannot count the number of times I've moved my rx8 into/out of the driveway to the street for various reasons, where I start the car, move it, and turn it off all in a matter of 30 seconds or so.

Never flooded. However, if I do this move I take a little precaution. When I'm done moving, I rev the engine up to about 4-5k and let go of the throttle/take the key out as the revs start to drop. It's a trick that I know 2nd gen rx7 people do when they have low compression and flooding happens easier, and so far it seems to have worked fine for me.

Just looking for an update for the flooding issue with the RX-8.

I've read through the thread and it seems like most people claim that the newer ECU flash's minimize the chance of the flooding. Does anyone know what the ECU did to fix it?

Is the automatic somehow less prone to flooding because there are fewer ports, or is it because the automatic is less likely to stall?

The main concerns I have are valet parking or parking lots with an attendant in San Francisco -- they'll start/stop the engine frequently and the weather can be very cool.

Thanks.

I can't help you since I never flooded mine. I never let it shut down cold either though.
My bet - if you let your car start/stop cold frequently, it will flood - just a matter of "when", not "if".
Didn't the cause of flooding get discussed in this thread?

Just looking for an update for the flooding issue with the RX-8.


Is the automatic somehow less prone to flooding because there are fewer ports, or is it because the automatic is less likely to stall?

Thanks.

According to a survey of users I did more than a year ago, the automatic is more likely to stall, and this was apparently confirmed by Mazda NA to another member at one point in time. The reasons are unclear.

It is possible that the automatic, like mine, is more likely to be driven by a secondary driver, who is less likely to understand the importance of allowing the RX8 to warm up before shutting it down. (My wife stalled mine when our garage door opener was being installed, for example -- personally, I've never shut mine down cold).

I doubt that any new firmware is going to fix the issue, as this would have been done long ago if it were that simple to fix. Recall that the RX7 also had this issue, and that it was never really fixed. That being said, with the stronger battery, the hotter spark plugs and user care, it shouldn't be a problem for most of us, and I think Mazda is still treating the problem as a "warranty" issue, so that means that they are motivated to do the best they can for us. I also think the car is not likely to stall in drier, warmer weather (Mine stalled in December, when it was raining). SF gets cool, I know, so you might want to be sure to explain the problem to the garage attendant before turning over the keys. Mazda will send the flatbed in the unlikely event that it stalls when someone else is driving the car.

The firmware does reduce the chance of flooding. This is one of the things that frustrate me: Why did Mazda not address the batteries, starters and start-up mapping from the start. It would appear that some of their present engineers haven't been aroung long enough to recognise the problem or they got out-voted by those who wanted lower weight for batteries and starters or bean counters cutting corners or a combination of some of the above.

they got out-voted by those who wanted lower weight for batteries and starters or bean counters cutting corners or a combination of some of the above.

I think weight was a big problem. In the U.S., the 8 barely escaped the gas guzzler tax (you know, the one that doesn't ever get applied to SUVs and Minivans!).

Absolutely. I sure wish the car had achieved the weight they were aiming for. It would have reduced the compromises on a car that I consider the 'great compromise', improving fuel economy through allowing taller gearing etc.

I fell victim to flooding recently. The car had sat for a little over a week. I went to start it and nothing (there was no option to let it warm up). I waited for about three days and still nothing. The dealer had it towed in and replaced the plugs. They advised me to rev it up to about 4,000 to 5,000 rpm prior to shutting it off. Anyone heard this before (sorry, I didn't read through the whole thread)?

What year is yours? Had it ever had a re-flash done to the computer? How many miles are on it and what were the circumstances of the last shutdown prior to the flood? Was it parked for several days or weeks? Is it cold where you are? I would really appreciate if you would attempt to answer as many of these questions as you can.

I fell victim to flooding recently. The car had sat for a little over a week. I went to start it and nothing (there was no option to let it warm up). I waited for about three days and still nothing. The dealer had it towed in and replaced the plugs. They advised me to rev it up to about 4,000 to 5,000 rpm prior to shutting it off. Anyone heard this before (sorry, I didn't read through the whole thread)?
Read the driver guide that came with your manual. Here's what it says about that:

I have one of the first RX-8s ( purchased in Aug 03). I never had a flood problem. Then I went in for the latest recall (ball joints and heat blanket this time) and they re-flashed my ecu again. My gas mileage has gone down! I was getting about 17 in mixed driving and I was happy and now I am getting 15 at best. Then yesterday I had cleaned my car but forgot to put it back into the garage. I later remembered it was still out and made a quick move to place the car in the garage. Well the next morning the car would not start. Thank god the dealer replaced my weak original battery with the newer higher capacity one. After many attempts to start the car I pulled the fuel pump fuse and placed the car in the sun to get warm. I then cranked the car several times to attempt to unfoul the plugs. After several hours I had someone crank the car while I inserted the fuse back into the car once I thought the engine needed gas. The engine finally caught and TONS and CLOUDS of smoke (Oil) came out the exhaust pipe for several minutes before everything burned off and the car was purring again. I WILL NEVER start and stop this car when it is cold again! To Date I had the following work done:
1. Running board Rx-8 sign re-glued down
2. Both control knobs for fan and heater replaced
3. A/C Amp replaced
4. Both rear tail lights replaced due to moister inside
5. Both sun shades broke and had to be replaced
6. Front brake rotors replaced due to warpage
7. Replaced weak and defective battery
8. Air conditioning compressor replaced

I am ready to call it quits, it is a fun car to drive but there are too many problems with it!

Where are you? How cold is it where you are? How many miles are on this car? Is it an auto or a manual trans. Have your plugs ever been replaced?

Southern California, Well in California in the 60's is cold. I have about 41400 miles on the car now and it is a Manual Transmission. Yes I had the plugs replaced at the 30,000 mile service. I have some hard starts when I first purchased the car but the second attempt always worked. Then I got my ecu flashed I think it was the M version and I was very happy. The car always started and got better mileage but I did notice it was warm by the gear box and cup holder. Then when I got my car back from the recall I notice the mileage was down and it was cooler at the gearbox area. The flooding was a complete shock to me, I had heard about it but never never experienced it before. The car totally refused to start in the garage. But I was carefull because I had a flashback that this could be a flood situation. I quickly got on the RX 8 site (here) and read about the procedures to cure the condition. The plugs are really buried in the car and I had no desire to get cut up trying to reach them. So I pulled the fuse and cranked the engine several times to dry out the plugs. One time it almost started ( with the fuel pump fuse pulled!!) that is how much gas and oil were in the chambers! It was a great relief to get the car started again. I will be much more carefull in the future. I have learned an important lesson!

I had a similar experience this weekend. I have 44K miles, original plugs, 6spd, have latest flash and all recalls done. It has been a week since I last started the car. I had driven the car home from work 40 miles on the highway and parked it in the garage all week. It's been cold but not below 35F. I went to start the car and it started turning over like it typically does and then the sound changed. it started to sound like the engine was spinning freely without the chugging sound the car normally makes when starting. I had it towed to the dealership today so I don't actually know that it has flooded but that is what I expect.

Please,
If possible, when describing your predicament, include what flash you are on and the year of the vehicle. I think as much info as possible is going to bring about resolution. Also, is yours on the original small battery and starter?

Hi thanks for the story. It sounds a lot my my story. My noise changed all of a sudden too. When the rotory engines start grinding you have this sick feeling of no compression and no way is this thing going to start. I was not willing to tow my car in so I pulled the fuel pump fuse and put my battery charger on the battery and kept cranking the engine with no fuel. A few times it wanted to fire and after about several hours of attempting to start and letting the battery rest, I kept at it and I finally got it to start. The car has been frustrating at best and now I am worried because I thought I only had to warm up the car when I moved it a short distance. Now it sounds like it could happen at any time! that is a scary thought because when the engine floods it is darn almost impossible to get it to start again. I hope they fix your car quickly. I cant believe some people try to flood their car! Once it floods it is tough times! Thanks!

The dealer fixed it and replaced the plugs, reflashed the computer. The car was flooded. They said they have been seeing it more often lately due to the weather change. I guess the colder weather is having an impact on the way the engine starts up. No problems since then and runs fine now. My advice is to make sure you let the engine warm up fully before shutting it down in colder weather and you should be fine. this is the first time it's happened to me since I've owned the car.

They said they have been seeing it more often lately due to the weather change.

This makes sense as both ambient temperature and battery condition appear to be factors associated with flooding. Particularly since this is now the start of the third winter season for many of the 2004 model year batteries, which were not all that great to begin with.

hi, I took my car in for A/C compressor replacement and I told the dealer about my flooding story and how I was able to re-start the car. The dealer told me that Mazda is now making a DVD that shows new owners of Rx-8 that when you start the car and old travel a short distance or if the motor is only on for a few minutes that you have to rev the car to 3000 rpm and hold it for at least 10 sec and then let it return to normal revs before you turn the car off. I did not have my plugs replaced since they were replaced at 30,000 miles. I hope I never have the car flood again. It is a horrible experience and I wish it on no one! Any body out there that tries to make is car flood to see if it is really true about the stories they hear is CRAZY!. Thanks for replying to my message!

The dealer told me that Mazda is now making a DVD that shows new owners of Rx-8 that when you start the car and old travel a short distance or if the motor is only on for a few minutes that you have to rev the car to 3000 rpm and hold it for at least 10 sec and then let it return to normal revs before you turn the car off.

The "Product Update" DVD, the dealer was referencing, I believe has been going out to customers for about 9 months. Yes, it says for short trips let the car run until it reaches operating temp or for 5 minutes, then 3K for 10 sec, let got to idle and shut it off. The following post includes a page from the current owner's manual that says the same thing.

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1097838&postcount=954

Bottom line, despite recent ECU/battery/starter improvements, Mazda is unable to provide an absolute technical "fix" and is using customer "education" to further reduce the incidents of flooding.

Bottom line, despite recent ECU/battery/starter improvements, Mazda is unable to provide an absolute technical "fix" and is using customer "education" to further reduce the incidents of flooding.

The "bottom bottom line" -- and please correct me if anyone knows otherwise -- is that Mazda NA is standing behind stranded motorists and treating all flooding episodes as warranty-covered incidents. As all the "old-timers" know by now, I was told in late 2003/early 2004 that it was my fault my car flooded, then that it would be covered just once as an "accomodation," then, eventually, and after much complaining, that Mazda would cover all floods under the warranty (non-intentional floods, anyway), even though they had an argument that flooding was due to "user error," and not any defect in workmanship or material. I think this has been their consistent policy. Am I right?

By the way, I expect you only need to do this once to not have any additional problems with it. As the prior poster has noted, it really, really sucks when it happens, and it's not likely that it will ever happen to me again. The key simply does not get turned to the off position without first looking at the temp gauge.

I was told in late 2003/early 2004 that it was my fault my car flooded, then that it would be covered just once as an "accomodation," then, eventually, and after much complaining, that Mazda would cover all floods under the warranty (non-intentional floods, anyway), even though they had an argument that flooding was due to "user error," and not any defect in workmanship or material. I think this has been their consistent policy. Am I right?

I know (from this thread) a few people back then were told what you were told when their car flooded. I'm not sure that anyone is being told that now. The Mazda USA "Engine Cranks - No Start" TSB (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/pdf/01-004-05-1448b.pdf), which was published after that time frame, makes no reference to this being a one-time warranty repair. It seems like they are handling all floods as warranty issues. :dunno:

Regardless, your point about warm-up is well taken because, eventually all our cars will be out of the warranty period.

your point about warm-up is well taken because, eventually all our cars will be out of the warranty period.
You could always buy a Shinka, and put off the inevitable. I go to the Mazda dealer and look from time to time, just to dream about what I'll do after I win the lottery... I still love this car, even if the flooding and awful gas mileage make it less than perfect.

I still love this car, even if the flooding and awful gas mileage make it less than perfect.

Agreed! :beerchug:

It may have its flaws, but if you can accept it for what it is (or is not), it's an amazing car and a real source of driving pleasure.

My wife had a CEL issue. I went out later that evening to check the gas cap. It appeared tight. I started the car to see if the light was still on and it was. I shut it off, not knowing about flooding issues. The next morning I went out and tried to start it to go out and it would not. Tried the flood starting method and drained the battery three times(charging in between) No luck. Towed it to the shop.

Hi Fire Cap'n, Thanks for the reply. I live in southern California and it was a warm day that day. I guess I was lucky. I kept my 6amp charger on the battery at all times during my startup attempt. Pulling the fuse and repeatingly attempting to start the engine got the plugs to fire a few times. I actually inserted the fuse while the car was being cranked just in case the computer is programmed to inject extra fuel during the initial startup attempt. This way I bypassed that and inserted the fuse while cranking. I now observe the 5min warmup rule and go to 3000 rpm before I turn the car off. ( a real pain in the butt) I never want to have the car flood again. It is a real helpless feeling!

Sorry to hear your experience. :sad: Tough way to learn about the flooding issue!

At least they can fix the CEL while its in the shop.

I really think it is enough to drive the car a few minutes; mine gets warm very quickly, even in fairly cold weather. I don't think it is wise to rev the car when it is not moving, given the recall.

I haven't done anything special since my flood in early Jan. '04, and it's been fine. I do worry about the battery as it gets weaker, though. I'm going to ask my dealer if he'd consider installing a new starter and the more powerful battery, but I know what he'll say since they made a big deal about including a "Battery Okay" sticker on my last service. There's still two years on my warranty and the car is much slower to start on cold days than it used to be -- I'll just say "I told you so" when the time comes, I suppose.

OK, enough is enough....the 8 is in the garage and will not start for a second time. (All you folks who think it is my fault.....STFU!) Regardless of the looks, corning, etc...the car is going on the market this week. If I can not rely on the car each and every time I get in it then it is not worth it.

Yup, sell it! You shouldn't have bought it in the first place. If you're not willing to put up with a few quirks to own a unique vehicle, it's not the car for you. Get a Honda. Next time do a little research before you plunk your money down. Have a nice day! :kiss:

Hey Go48.....the simple fact that you own one tells me that I do not what the thing anymore...a few quirks? Bud I have two kids that may need to go to the hospital at some point in their lives and that car could be the only way I have to get them there. So take your sarcasm and crash yours head on into a tree!
My point is for a sticker of $36K I should not have to put up with ANY QUIRKS!

RX8 Pusher, what caused it to flood this time, what was the situation?

RX8Pusher:

Ask for the hotter spark plugs, the new battery and new starter. With those changes, and being careful, I suspect you won't have a problem. I'm also interested in why your car flooded in the garage, where the humidity should be lower than outside -- it is possible that you've got other issues, especially since you've got a manual, which seem less prone to flooding.

GO48: Your post is flamebait; you should delete it.

GO48: Your post is flamebait; you should delete it.
Perhaps, but my comments were not necessarily intended just for the original poster. Rather, they were intended to inform potential owners that this can be an issue they need to consider when thinking about purchasing a rotary-engined car. If I offended anyone, sorry for that. But if my comments inform prospective RX-8 owners about a potential negative associated with this car, then I will feel that I have made someone a more knowledgable buyer.

In fact, I just posted a new thread in the RX-8 Discussion section, "Don't buy an RX-8 if...", that is intended to do just that.

I think that Mazda has made it pretty clear that this car is different than any other, and there are few simple things that you can do to keep from having a flood occur. Yes, sometimes people forget and cut the car off too soon, and I hope that they don't get bitten buy this, but what can you do, they have told you about this possibility.

I for one back my car out of the garage for cleaning every week and keep it running until it is above the 2 lines for "C" and then do the 3k shut down and I have never experienced a flood. I also cut the car off like any other car when it is fully warmed up, pretty simple, just have to remember you have a different beast.

RX8 Pusher, not saying any of it is your fault but am curious as to what happened before the car flooded to maybe make it do this to you again.

F... the quirks! I'm one of the biggest rotary lovers out here. Mazda should dedicate crazy time to eliminating quirks. Make the rotary more like a piston engine while maintaining the qualities that make it a joy to own. It can be done.
And please people, give us specifics of your year, whether you've ever had plugs replaced, a battery replaced, an upgraded starter, whether you've had the latest computer flashes performed and how many miles you currently have.

Mazda should dedicate crazy time to eliminating quirks.

I absolutely agree! :beerchug:

This is a bug, not a feature. There has got to be a way to fix it, particularly with today's "smart" engines.

Mine flooded again today. 2nd time is 38k and yes both times it was because I pulled it out of the garage to wash it and put it away without warming it up (I did the 3k though). The difference today was I now have a 600+ca battery and was able to get it going using the flood procedure (took almost 10 minutes). There was no hope with the stock battery as it was dead last time after the 3rd attempt. The lesson here, if it's cold out and you're not going to take the time to warm it up properly, leave it dirty.

I'll try this again.
What year is the car? Has it ever had the plugs replaced? What flash is it on?

2004, 10k on plugs replaced after 1st flood, "R" Flash

Facts IRT my last flood:
2004 6 speed, 22K miles, regular services, plugs replaced and battery replaced after first flood at 12k. Ambient temp 30 degrees, drove the car the night before for about 1 hour, returned home put it in the garage. Next day, hop in at 6 am to go to the gym and it would not start. Like some have said before, it is not a quirk it is a defect. I love the car but if I can not depend on it to start each and every time I get into it............

drove the car the night before for about 1 hour, returned home put it in the garage. Next day, hop in at 6 am to go to the gym and it would not start.

Definitely not a "short trip" issue. Bummer! I can understand you being ticked.

Have you gotten the car back? What was the service department's diagnosis?

pusher this flood happened after a new battery? which battery did you get?

Definitely not a "short trip" issue.

Agreed. There's something more wrong with RX8Pusher's car than what's "wrong" with my car.

Whew! Read almost every post and I am disheartened. Owned my RX8 for two years plus with about 20K miles and during this time I've been through the horsepower issue and buy back, disappointing mileage, all of the recalls and other issues and now flooding concerns. I am very careful about warm ups and haven't had a problem although it is annoying to have all of these special rituals for a car!

The question I have to ask myself is am I making too many excuses for this car because I bought it and I won't admit it's seriously flawed and also doesn't stack up against the competition performance wise? At the time I purchased it I wanted a coupe sports car and this was what appeared to be a good buy but the appeal has worn off as I become more aware of its shortcomings and of competitive cars that may have cost more but delivered on the sports car promised. I am beginning to believe I was penny wise but pound foolish in buying this car.

The RX8's performance isn't good enough to compensate for the worries about oil consumption, flooding etc.. As I've said there are other cars that do not have these shortcomings that easily match or exceed the RX8's performance so why the rotary? I think Ford/Mazda may be seriously reassessing their committment.

It's a real drag to have these kinds of concerns about a car that promises to deliver fun and performance. I think I just need to steel myself to the fact that a high performance sports car will cost 45K or more.

i have no rituals and have never had this issue. many others as well

delivered on the sports car promised.

I didn't buy the car because of a sports-car promise, so I guess that's why I'm very happy still. I don't think I'll flood my car very often, having been through it once, and I can take both my sons around town in style; couldn't do that in a 'vette or S2000, and saved much money in that way.

I'm afraid it's the fuel consumption that is going to kill the rotary, slowly but surely -- about $800 per year extra from what I'd probably have gotten otherwise ($1500 over the Prius my wife wanted), adding to the cost each and every year. I'm glad I got one before they're gone, though... Zoom Zoom.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into a trash can for those who have decided to throw in the towel.
Statistically, there will be those who decide that the RX-8 is not the car for them. The "flooding issue" will support their decision to do so.
I have owned two brand new cars that have given me less concerns than this one - a Celica and an Accord. Whoopee! The flawed head casting in the Accord pissed me off pretty bad though. The Toyota shop had a mentality problem too. Come to think of it, they all (including Fiat and Dodge) had that problem...
This car is by far the most technologically advanced car that I have ever owned and it is doing quite well so far considering, IMHO. The "oil issue" is not an issue at all, my consumption is so minimal, it's simply not an issue at all. The recalls and reflashes and things like the oil pan replacement are no biggie and are also a good thing in that Mazda is continually improving this car, even after they sold it. Commendable, if you ask me.

As for the flooding issue... I have enough experience that I know that a flooded engine - rotary or piston - is a lousy situation. The rotary pros convinced me a long time ago that a flooded rotary is a whole lot worse. They said time and time again that it floods because it was shut down cold. Don't shut it down cold. I have never shut mine down cold and so far, I have never flooded mine. It still has the original plugs, battery and starter. I agree though that Mazda should be trying to totally eliminate this problem. I would think twice before putting myself in a situation where failure of this car to start would put me in a life threatening situation. I would first choose a car with a piston engine for that purpose. I guess. I still think that we have enough input here to conclude that flooding is caused by shutting it down cold though. If it floods anyway, there is probably something else abnormal going on with the car or the operator. This isn't quite rocket science, and it won't flood just because you don't like the car, or just because the car doesn't like you. Figure out what happened in your particular sitzenlehbehn, and deal with it.
I have still no "situations" with my RX-8. In one word, "sweet".

Car has flooded 3 times in 18months - each time after trying to restart after moving car a short distance on drive. Absolutely no help from Dealer ( Jennings of Middlesbrough UK). I had no info or advice on need for warm up and engine revving .
Engine set up checked and new plugs fitted on second failure.
Contacted MAZDA UK Technical Director and new starter motor and plugs fitted last week. He assures me that this solves the problem.

Contacted MAZDA UK Technical Director and new starter motor and plugs fitted last week. He assures me that this solves the problem.

Hopefully, you will also start letting the car warm up after a short trip.

Mine is flooded like a MOFO right now. Had to pull plugs and still working on it ;-)

I would think twice before putting myself in a situation where failure of this car to start would put me in a life threatening situation. I would first choose a car with a piston engine for that purpose. I guess.

And yet they are so popular as hobbyist airplane engines... :suspect:

Well, mine flooded for the second time since August. I agree with an earlier post that I will not turn this into an -8 bash, but it is very disappointing to me that I know have to "wonder" if my car will start. I shouldn't think about that when I am getting ready to turn the key. But, enough of that. Have any of you heard about this?

When I picked up the car today and discussed the issue with dealer, they asked if I had received the DVD that explains this. i had not. They then told me what I had to do to prevent it and informed me that since I was notified of the preventive measure the warranty would NOT cover me in the future; I would be responsible for all towing, labor, and parts.

Have any of you heard of this? Is this actually possible? i am considering a letter to MazdaUSA since this reason alone would push me toward another vehicle AND manufactuer.

Jeff

If it helps at all, I agree fully with the warm up.

I have owned 3 Mazdas and IMO, they all run the same way when not warmed up before shutting down. The V6 KL03 can "cold flood" with the same symptoms as the Renesis.

As previously stated in this thread, spend a minute and warm the car up, get used to this and you'll have a reliable Mazda.

Yo, Ice Blue & CJW, can you let us know if the flooding was a result of the dreaded cold shutdown or not?

CJW, yeah, that gets brought up, then denied back 'n' forth a lot. Search. Last I recall, that issue was denied by MNAO, that they'll handle any flooding issue. Looks like you need to have a discussion with them. Then, get back to us with their answer - your turn.

When I picked up the car today and discussed the issue with dealer, they asked if I had received the DVD that explains this. i had not. They then told me what I had to do to prevent it and informed me that since I was notified of the preventive measure the warranty would NOT cover me in the future; I would be responsible for all towing, labor, and parts.

As MEGAREDS noted, some dealers took the position this was a "user induced" problem back in late 2003 early 2004 but Mazda quickly backed off of that. I think this is the first post on this thread in a long time reporting a Mazda dealer saying that flooding is, once again, considered a non-warranty problem.

I would phone Mazda USA and request clarification. Neither the DVD, the current owner's guide nor the "Engine cranks but no start" TSB state that the owner is responsible for paying for a flood repair on a car under warranty. I think your dealer has overstated the current Mazda policy, probably because he is as sick of this issue as we are.

Racer X and msrecant,
Thanks for the info. I will do another search to see if I can find the info on the warranty items. I apologize for not doing that at the same time I searched the flooding issue.

I will get back as to what the dealer and MNAO say about honoring the warranty. I will "work" on ensuring I do not turn the engine off if it cold, but...I cannot promise anything. My '84 SAAB 900T used to say the same thing about allowing the engine oil to circulate before shutting down but I ran that thing into the ground with no problems like that.

Once again, i appreciate the feedback and will follow up as I find more info.

Jeff

Nice to be remembered. I wish I could find my letter (I believe I quoted it almost verbatim on one of these posts), but it did say what MSRECANT says it said. Mazda gave me written assurance that they would cover the repair and tow as often as it happened through the end of the warranty period. I took that as a generous position, since I had concluded that only materials and workmanship are covered by the literal terms of our warranties, and not any flaws in the car's design.

I strongly urge anyone who has been told otherwise by a dealer to contact Mazda NA and ask them to again clarify the "official position." No sane person would flood themselves on purpose; it's in Mazda's interest to keep this issue covered, at least as long as they want to sell rotary vehicles.

I'm a new owner of just over a week now and I can't find anything in the manual about shutting the car down. I was told by the dealer to let it rev @ 4000 for about 10 seconds and then turn the key. I was surprised though to not find anything in the manual about this. What does everybody else do? Do you do the same, or just rev it once pretty high before shutting it off? Also, do you do it everytime you take it out? For example, driving between stores in the same general areas (same lot even), do you still let it rev for 10 seconds? To date I haven't had any issues yet, though with a brand new car, I would hope I wouldn't either.

Only when the car's engine is cold is shutting down dangerous. My car warms up, even in the winter, after about 3 or 4 minutes of driving. If the engine temp needle is close to the center, you don't need to do anything special, and that should be the case 99% of the time. I know because my commute to the train station each morning is about 4 miles... it's never been a problem.

However, if you start the car, then move it only a very short distance, you are at risk of a flood. The better thing to do would be to drive the car a few blocks, get the temperature up, and then put the car where you want it and shut it down normally. If you don't want to drive the car, let it run where it sits until the engine temperature is "mid-line," then shut it down normally. Sometimes that may take 10 minutes on a cold day.

Some people have followed the procedure of reving the engine before shutting the car down, and then cutting the power as the needle drops from 3k or so on the the theory that the gas going into the chambers will be cut off while the chambers are still spinning, making the next start less likely to flood because there will be no gas from the previous time out. I think there is some official Mazda materials suggesting this, and I suppose it makes sense. I personally don't recommend it since it seems unnecessary; I've had no flooding problems since my first in Jan. '04, and that flood was classic: short move, engine cut off right away, cold rainy day, then the car sat for several hours.

One thing to keep in mind: if the car ever is hard to start, take it to the dealer to be checked out. A weak battery is death if the car even slightly floods -- the "deflood/pedal to the floor" procedure described in the manual designed to restart the car after a flooded engine will not work if the battery is weak.