I’ve come to realize there aren’t many options when it comes to relocating the battery so I made one of my own.

My goals were the following:


Reduce weight by replacing the stock 37 pound battery with a lightweight Odyssey PC-680 (14.2 lbs)
Use the stock terminals so no re-wiring is necessary
Keep the weight as low and as close to the center of the car as possible
Make the battery bracket rock solid (so there is no vibration)
Integrate a visually appealing and hopefully functional radiator shield to replace the stock battery tray and intake tray
Make it compatible with various intakes (including stock)*

*I've only test fit it with my AEM intake so far but I will be looking for some guinea pigs to help me design the kit for others ;)

Current Specs:


Weight = 18.2 lbs total with battery (saves 19 lbs over stock!)
Material = Aluminum
Finish = Flat black high heat ceramic paint (i'll have to experiment with different finishes)



Here are some pics. Please keep in mind that this is my one and only prototype. I was designing and building at the same time so I made a few mistakes along the way. If you see an extra hole or a bent corner, something off center -- just ignore it. The finished product will be much more civilized :)

I have the time and resources to make more of these if anyone is interested. Let me know and we'll start a list for a group buy!

Now i'm going to go for a drive because my car hasn't been driven in about 3 weeks, and THAT is a travesty...

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/3803/batteryrelocation1.jpg

P.S. – the J-hooks will be seated elsewhere; my J-hooks were too short to put at a diagonal.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2503/p1013363.jpg

Pricing estimated at $199+shipping/paypal

Will set up official group buy if more than 10 people are on this list:


1. L337fpc
2. Zelse
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That looks pretty nice to me. Can you PM me a ballpark price on what you think they will cost if you pursue it?

Looks nice. Any way to get all those wires under the panel though? Maybe swing the terminal connections to the side of the battery and tuck everything neatly under?

Looks nice. Any way to get all those wires under the panel though? Maybe swing the terminal connections to the side of the battery and tuck everything neatly under?

Probably not under the panel but I could clean it up a bit. I'll see what can be done.

That looks pretty nice to me. Can you PM me a ballpark price on what you think they will cost if you pursue it?

I still need to iron some details out so I can price it accordingly. Once i do that, i'll let everyone know the ballpark price here.

Feel free to drop hints though :lol2:

Your engine compartment look so clean! How do you clean your engine? And how do you keep it so clean? By the way, that is a nice battery box.

Look at all that space for a turbo ;)

Your engine compartment look so clean! How do you clean your engine? And how do you keep it so clean? By the way, that is a nice battery box.

Thanks and it stays clean by lots of TLC, Super Clean (degreaser) and a steamer jet cleaner thingy. I don't really know what to call it but it works wonders.

Look at all that space for a turbo ;)

BAH!!!!........................................... ....................... Maybe :)

great idea. perhaps some sort of etched on thing.. rx8 / se3p ... maybee an embossed look? maybe a version that moves the battery over to the fuse box?

Very interested...

Interested if it's not too expensive.

I'd have to a see picture from the front but it looks like it won't fit cars with a GReddy kit (or most FI kits, certainly front-mount kits as well) because the charge pipes needs to run in that area.

I put my battery in the trunk. $15 plastic box from AutoZone, some 1/0 gauge power cable, a 4g ground, some terminals, and Home Depot metal. I think it cost me around $100 bucks or less.

I was able to re-route the wires so they aren't as much of an eyesore. It will take a little effort on your part (although pretty simple) but i think it's worth it.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/139/p1013360.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2503/p1013363.jpg

I'd have to a see picture from the front but it looks like it won't fit cars with a GReddy kit (or most FI kits, certainly front-mount kits as well) because the charge pipes needs to run in that area.

I put my battery in the trunk. $15 plastic box from AutoZone, some 1/0 gauge power cable, a 4g ground, some terminals, and Home Depot metal. I think it cost me around $100 bucks or less.

Putting it in the trunk was something i was trying to avoid.

It might work with some FI. I could imagine more so on the SC side than the turbo side :dunno:

i like. i'll be a guinea pig too. ;)

how much for just the intake tray?

btw: i think you have the coupler where the reducer hose goes and vice versus on your intake. i could be wrong though.

I like it, I was actually trying to lay out ideas for something like this the other day

I did a similar experiament some times back. The pic showed is the material and not yet install.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p221/malangsia/SP_A0283.jpg

I don't understand why you make the plate to resist the air flow of the fans, as the original design did. When the fan is on on during idling, due to the space is tight, some hot air will be forced to pass through the radiator sponge and suck back by the rad fan(s). So, when you sprint for a while and meet some traffic jam or something that cause you stop the car, the temperature will raise quite fast. And, the gab around the coolant tank must be covered, because the PCM box has no seal and the hot air will make the PCM + ABS control unit even hotter, and also the AEM alum tubes. I would say the battery location is not bad but the battery itself cost me a bomb at my place. I just use a stand 60amp and put it at the water fluid area, where the original water tank had to be sacrificed and replaced with a modified breather tank. Just FYI, the metal plate surface temperature on my car average about 82 celcius and due to the material I use is not alum or ss, the heat transfer is not that great, so won't feel the heat on the top so much. Rotor housing outer surface temperature average about 82-84 during cruising at 120km/h (stop the car, open the bonnet and quickly get the reading) and 89-94 celcius 160-180km/h @ about 200km. Ambient temp = 30-32 celcius (from noon to evening).

To protect the coil and the aircond pump, I recommend you to make some plate that with curved or diamond edge to block & divert the hot air away.

If you are living in a country that will never have real summer, then your current ideal might be almost perfect, except need to seal off the PCM box.

Forgot to add, I did paint several type of car paint on the plate. Including those 'chrome' paint. All survived.

So clean,, Ill be your SC guinea pig.... One criticism, round those corners off some,, ,maybe 1/4-1/2" radius or something...

Sorry, the PCM box does have seal :) Maybe the heat just went in to mine due to the extra wire that I hooked on :)

the tray really looks nice. however, with the battery located like that you could really increase the airflow and efficiency of the radiator by not having it there.

Looks like the weak point is where the sheet metal bolts to the battery box.

Sure hope it is strong enough and doest crack.

Have you tried it at the track?

rOtor: The tray is in a good position, as it forces the the air into the radiator.

I may be interested.

i like. i'll be a guinea pig too. ;)

Good. You have the same intake but it'd be good to test out on other cars just to make sure.

how much for just the intake tray?

btw: i think you have the coupler where the reducer hose goes and vice versus on your intake. i could be wrong though.

Not sure on the price for just the tray but it would be a good chunk less. I have to nail down my suppliers before i post any prices. The prototype was pretty expensive to make and i don't want to base the price off what this one cost me.

As for the intake i'll check it. It could be wrong but i'm not sure how there is a difference between three identical intake ports.

So clean,, Ill be your SC guinea pig.... One criticism, round those corners off some,, ,maybe 1/4-1/2" radius or something...

noted

rOtor: The tray is in a good position, as it forces the the air into the radiator.



I was under the impression that was the case too... which was one of the reasons i built it like i did.


Looks like the weak point is where the sheet metal bolts to the battery box.

Sure hope it is strong enough and doest crack.

Have you tried it at the track?

rOtor: The tray is in a good position, as it forces the the air into the radiator.

I may be interested.

It's pretty strong, especially when installed.

The area you mentioned is the weak point but it's not that weak. In my original design i had a bracket attach to where the side of the battery box bolted but it was pretty difficult to replicate when i was actually making it. I might try again but the sheet aluminum is pretty sturdy as is.

i like this, very interested

For those interested would you like me to provide the battery or just the tray?

rOtor: The tray is in a good position, as it forces the the air into the radiator.

I may be interested.


I'm looking at it from a different perspective... the more air you can get out of the radiator, the more air you can get through the radiator. I happened to notice at a drift event, the RX8 had the intake, coolant overflow tank, and battery relocated leaving the back of the radiator completely exposed and then they ran a giant heat extrator opening in the hood right above that area.

The newer drift RX8 pics i've seen on these boards did the same thing with a v-mount setup for the radiator and intercooler

For those interested would you like me to provide the battery or just the tray?

maybe specs of the battery you chose first? or at least the ones that will fit?

As for the intake i'll check it. It could be wrong but i'm not sure how there is a difference between three identical intake ports.


noted

no no. not the intake ports. the coupler on the end towards the front of the car is supposed to attach to the throttle body. the reducer hose you have attached to the throttle body goes in its place.

and they're not identical. the coupler, if i'm not mistaken, can withstand more heat. it's thicker whereas the reducer hose is more of a sleeve.

it should say AEM right there where the intake exits the car.

and lmk about just the intake tray. i want one.

no no. not the intake ports. the coupler on the end towards the front of the car is supposed to attach to the throttle body. the reducer hose you have attached to the throttle body goes in its place.

and they're not identical. the coupler, if i'm not mistaken, can withstand more heat. it's thicker whereas the reducer hose is more of a sleeve.

it should say AEM right there where the intake exits the car.

and lmk about just the intake tray. i want one.

ahh, i see what you mean. I bought it used from another member and that's how it came. I didn't read the instructions :lol: so it may be wrong. I'll check, thanks for mentioning it.

Make the battery box adjustable for different batteries like Braile

Edit: You don't want to ship batteries. Its Hazardous Material.

Make the battery box adjustable for different batteries like Brail

i could probably do that pretty easily -- good idea.

I went with odyssey PC 680 because it seems to be the most reliable highest performing battery of it's size. I did a bit of research and all signs seemed to point to Odyssey and from what i've heard Braille are kind of a pile of junk :dunno:

I agree about the battery but.... If you only make it to fit that size and Odyseey changes their size or your customer has a different battery................... it will be a pain to get return shipment.

I agree about the battery but.... If you only make it to fit that size and Odyseey changes their size or your customer has a different battery................... it will be a pain to get return shipment.

Such insightful commentary... Razz1, YOU ROCK! :ylsuper:

um. sorry.

i have it wrong. lol.

Very interested...

Im really interested! I was looking for new ways to spice up my engine bay!

+1

I like this idea as well. Will def follow the progress...

I'll def be interested as long as the pricing is good. Always wanted to do this. I think it would be best if you just sold the tray/mount with everything included except the battery. That'll be a PIA to ship

Any chance you can get one made in CF? or an overlay or something, so it'll match MS strut bar.

I'll def be interested as long as the pricing is good. Always wanted to do this. I think it would be best if you just sold the tray/mount with everything included except the battery. That'll be a PIA to ship

Any chance you can get one made in CF? or an overlay or something, so it'll match MS strut bar.

I think i'll stick to aluminum for now. CF would be cool but i'm not sure how it would hold up in the heat nor do i know how to make anything out of CF... yet :)

I've pretty much decided against shipping batteries for now. But I still need to research shipping hazardous material a little more. I did get some quotes for these batteries with a quantity discount and it would probably save you a few pennies if i put in a bulk order. We'll see.

P.S. - figuring out pricing at the moment, stay tuned.

Alright, after crunching the numbers and giving it a lot of thought I think this is going to be priced around $199+shipping/paypal.

This is for the tray only. I've decided against providing the battery but if I change my mind i'll let you know. I'll be making the battery tray adjustable so other batteries can fit if you'd like to go with something other than the PC680.

The current design will only work with a limited selection of intakes but i'm hoping to have other designs and test them to fit other intakes before long.

Feedback is appreciated.

how would one order it? also, im going to have to wait a bit longer. I just ordered my AEM CAI and some other accessories. I'll pick this up in 2 paychecks lol.

how would one order it? also, im going to have to wait a bit longer. I just ordered my AEM CAI and some other accessories. I'll pick this up in 2 paychecks lol.

Well, i have to set up an official group buy to sell this on RX8club.com so you're going to have to wait for that. I'd say i'd need at least 10 people before i set up the group buy.

well im in


1. L337fpc

Any chance you can get one made in CF? or an overlay or something, so it'll match MS strut bar.

^+1 :ylsuper:

how about a trunk monnt setup

how about a trunk monnt setup

That was something I was trying to avoid. Originally I wanted to mount mine in the trunk but I wasn't real fond of the idea of ripping apart the interior to do it. This is a lot simpler than a trunk mount set up.

I'm fabricating another one at the moment for some more testing :)

When you figure out pricing PM me :)

When you figure out pricing PM me :)

Already figured it out. Updated OP.

Hey Jan, how about this kit in place of windshield washer fluid bottle? I've seen a few of the Braille battery kits being mounted there and was wondering if that is how that package is normally, or you have to custom make something like you have here? What do you think of that placement as opposed to yours?

I like that. 'Jan' hehe

lol..well I could sit here and type out his whole name.. :P But I'm sure Jan works.

Hey Jan, how about this kit in place of windshield washer fluid bottle? I've seen a few of the Braille battery kits being mounted there and was wondering if that is how that package is normally, or you have to custom make something like you have here? What do you think of that placement as opposed to yours?

I'm not a real fan of replacing the window washer fluid reservoir. I'd rather retain anything and everything functional. Also, even though you'd be reducing weight by using a lightweight battery you're moving it higher up in the engine bay which seems like the weight would be thrown around a lot more in the corners.

In summary these are my arguments against the two common locations:

Trunk

Difficulty of install
Would need longer than stock wires
Grounding issues (running a long grounding wire to the stock mounting point vs. grounding in the trunk is a heavily debated topic)


Windshield Washer

Removes the functionality of the windshield washers
move weight higher in the engine bay



And both of these mean i would have to look at an ugly battery tray and hideous intake tray or remove them and have radiator heat all up in my business :)

Quick question, would I be able to order in the next week or so?

Also, is the metal painted or primered? I ask because I want to paint mine to match a few things.

lol I hear ya. I don't believe I saw a post on this, but the tray doesn't work for stock intakes yet, correct? If so, I'll be very interested in one of these, and I'll pick myself up a battery as well. Thanks for the info Jan.

I live in Jersey and will be heading to Pennsylvania for college. I fear the heavy strain for cold starts. Can the Odyssey handle it. What about life without car on? Radio Headlights etc

lol I hear ya. I don't believe I saw a post on this, but the tray doesn't work for stock intakes yet, correct? If so, I'll be very interested in one of these, and I'll pick myself up a battery as well. Thanks for the info Jan.

I should be able to get it to fit with the stock intake easily. I've been trying to coordinate some test fitting with some local guys but it just hasn't worked out yet. I should know more next week.

I live in Jersey and will be heading to Pennsylvania for college. I fear the heavy strain for cold starts. Can the Odyssey handle it. What about life without car on? Radio Headlights etc

That is a good question. From what i've read the PC680 is one of the best lightweight batteries for cold weather starting but that's about all i know. I was worried about this fact too because Washington winters can get pretty chilly but from what i've gathered they do quite well.

If anyone has experience with these batteries in cold weather please chime in a let us know you're experiences.

In the mean time I'll try to find some of the places i was reading about their starting ability in cold weather and post them when i do.

Sounds good Jan. I'm going to ping Mazmart about this as well and see what they recommend. I don't use my washer fluid so I removed the whole tank anyways, along with my engine bay insulation. I barely drive the car, just weekends sometimes and race it, so I stripped most of it, thus why I mentioned moving it to where the washer fluid was. So I just wanted to see all options, even though this does seem to be the best so far ;)

advice from other members with this battery was that cold starts are fine and the car runs for about 20min before the battery will die. that's including a stereo system like my ride has. so just keep it running or don't run your stereo with the car off and you're good to go.

i need some way to get back to stock weight with my system installed, right?

hehe

I was wondering what other batteries that could be adapted...

I did a few searches and that battery is mainly for bikes... apparently.

Braille and Odyssey are the only ones i can think of at the moment (although i know there are a couple off brands that have the exact same size). The bracket is going to be adjustable but you really can't go wider than 3.5 inches and their aren't too many batteries smaller than that.

http://www.braillebattery.com/


http://www.odysseybatteries.com/

Quick question, would I be able to order in the next week or so?

Also, is the metal painted or primered? I ask because I want to paint mine to match a few things.

We've gotta get more people on the list before i start making these so start recruiting people :)

Throw me on the list because I'll most likely get it. Only way I won't is if I somehow find something better..but I doubt it.

Woo... short term resurrection

I'm interested in this product, is this still a feeler?

Woo... short term resurrection

I'm interested in this product, is this still a feeler?

Still a feeler. I've been out of town for 2 weeks and i'm going to be really busy this week so i'm not making much progress. I'll get back on it next week.

I'm still waiting...lol.

Good idea, you could add some lateral battery brackets too, so that we might fit even smaller batteries such as the 7lbs ones :)

have you made any progress on some testers? I'm trying real hard to be patient.

interested (subscribed)

right around the corner from you in Lacey so add me to the list of locals.

it would make more sense to relocate the standard battery to the RR trunk area than to save 25 lbs on a daily driver with a low storage capacity racing battery, the weight savings won't alleviate the aggravation of being in a hurry to go somewhere and when you turn the key all you get is the dreaded click-click-clicksound ....

i'm interested. add me to the list. hopefully it will fit with a greddy turbo kit.

Still waiting on the non battery version with price. non painted please

This still alive?

i think its dead...i have been waiting for quite some time as well.

No, sorry guys. I had the prototype built but i needed to find a good way to replicate it weather it was doing it myself or having a shop do it for me. In the process I ended up losing my job and had to take a new position half-way across the country (moved from Seattle WA to Norman OK recently). In Seattle I had a nice sized shop with a garage and all and now i'm temporarily in a one bedroom apartment which makes it a little difficult do work on any projects ;) Plus i'm not familiar enough with the area to find a good shop to do it nor have i had the time lately.

Maybe come spring i'll find a shop in the area that can make them or by then i'll be living in a house with garage or shop so i can get some work done on them myself. Either way the project is on hold.

he had to move to OK for a job so i know that ate up lots of time.

edit: what he said ^

First, if the battery is going in the engine bay then you need to get the metal jacket option with the Odyssey battery due to the high temperature. I'm not aware of this option for Braille so it's just a matter of time before it fries.

Second, stop wasting your time and effort making the actually battery mount. There are aluminum mounts made for both the Odyssey PC545and PC680 and the cost is likely less than you can hope to achieve with a small volume run. By doing this all you will need is an adaptor plate between the pre-fabbed battery mount and the chassis. Do not even attempt to use the smaller PC545 on the street - this is a smaller racing size only option. It's usual application is larger displacement motorcyles.

There was a 3rd point, but between eating dinner and typing this on a PDA it slipped my mind. I'll post it up if I remember what it is.

Team, which Odyssey would you say is a equal to the Braille B2317R? I heard that for a somewhat daily driver car, that battery would do..but wasn't sure what the Odyssey equivalent would be. Also, got links to any of those mounting hardware and all so one could do this himself? Would be nice to see the difference between that and Jantzen's setup.

First, if the battery is going in the engine bay then you need to get the metal jacket option with the Odyssey battery due to the high temperature. I'm not aware of this option for Braille so it's just a matter of time before it fries.

Second, stop wasting your time and effort making the actually battery mount. There are aluminum mounts made for both the Odyssey PC545and PC680 and the cost is likely less than you can hope to achieve with a small volume run. By doing this all you will need is an adaptor plate between the pre-fabbed battery mount and the chassis. Do not even attempt to use the smaller PC545 on the street - this is a smaller racing size only option. It's usual application is larger displacement motorcyles.

There was a 3rd point, but between eating dinner and typing this on a PDA it slipped my mind. I'll post it up if I remember what it is.

The metal jacket is definitely not a bad idea but after a 25 min session in 105 degree temps the battery is really not that hot to the touch. What do they consider high temps?

To your second point, some of us like things to look good rather than just hold a battery. I made this wanting a single flowing piece of aluminum to clean up the look of gaping hole in the engine bay. We're not all hardcore autocrossers like you Team. Sometimes a little form over function is what we're looking for.

The metal jacket is definitely not a bad idea but after a 25 min session in 105 degree temps the battery is really not that hot to the touch. What do they consider high temps?

To your second point, some of us like things to look good rather than just hold a battery. I made this wanting a single flowing piece of aluminum to clean up the look of gaping hole in the engine bay. We're not all hardcore autocrossers like you Team. Sometimes a little form over function is what we're looking for.

May need to check the battery specs. All the batteries I work with work best around 77 degrees F. Going warmer increases capacity, but decreases life.

Oh yeah, point 3 is that these are sealed "nonspillable" batteries. The legitimately and legally ship any way you want; UPS, FedEx, USPS, etc., even Air Express. There are some requirements for packaging and marking the exterior shipping container, but nothing that shouldn't be done anyway. The battery comes with a brochure that explains all this.

The PC545 and PC680 Odyssey batteries are only rated for 113 degF maximum operating temp, then the metal jacket is required. Your radiator is putting out well in excess of 180 degF, plus the usual heat that comes off a rotary engine. Anybody who owns an RX-8 knows that everything in the engine bay becomes very hot from this heat. I'm pretty sure this is what caused my Braille to go off and eventually die in under a year. When I switched to the Odyssey PC680 it was relocated to the trunk, but at the time I wasn't aware of this requirement. Failing to use the metal jacket in a high temp application will void the warranty.

Also, never use a trickle charge on the Odyssey if the battery is below 12.65 volts. You have to use a fast charger otherwise this will also kill the battery. If you use a trickle charger it must put out at least 3 amps and have it must have an output between 13.5 - 13.8 volts. For the longest life you want to maintain the battery voltage above 12.8 volts. If in doubt, buy the Odyssey charger. Not following this will also void the warranty.

Got my best price shipped for everything here, mainly because they sell the basic mount for less than anyone else:

http://www.sepbatteries.com/

mounts

http://www.sepbatteries.com/Odyssey-Battery-Hold-Down-Accessories.aspx



.

They're super cheap here too:

http://www.portablepower.com

$98 -- i got free shipping when i bought mine but i'm not sure if they still do that.

yes, but you need to add everything to see what the total is because everything else is higher, including the metal jacket. The SAE post price is each, so x 2, or for the 680 you can order the PC680MJT which also gives you the metal jacket and SAE terminals for a lower overall price.


.

Thanks for the info guys..good to know. Do you know about that equivalent though Team/Jantzen of the Braille I mentioned above to the Odyssey?

Thanks for the info guys..good to know. Do you know about that equivalent though Team/Jantzen of the Braille I mentioned above to the Odyssey?

it appears that the closest Odyssey equivalent is the PC680. The PC680 isn't as wide as the Braille, so it's a bit wider and taller instead.

Here is my twenty dollars worth:

Please include a screwdriver and a phone book with your kit. This way you can poke a hole in the radiator so it will heat up and toast your motor faster and get to the ultimate desitination that blocking the radiator will get you---motor failure. The phone book is to look up the numbers of a tow truck, a salvage dealer or your local Mazda shop. I'm being harsh fellas because this scares the crap out of me.

NOBODY is talking about the increased water temps this thing is going to see. These engines don't like high water temps sports fans. Any idea where the best engine builders like to see operating water temps? Huh? What? 190 F and less is preferred. 210 is not good. 220 is risky. 230+ and you might as well start ebaying for a new engine.

Here's the deal: The ability of the fans to extract/pull air through your stock or aftermarket radiator is about nil WHEN THE MOTOR IS HOT and the car is moving slowly or stopped. This means your ability to recover is also about nil. $100 says when you test this setup and perform dyno pulls you will see 220F lickity split. The oil and water cooling system work together so higher water temps will also increase (and retain) oil temps. So now you have both water and oil at high temps with limited ability to recover. Nowhere is it listed in this thread (that I could see) where there is any data supporting how temps were influenced. One person offered temps when you drive the car at a zillion miles an hour but that is not where the problem is going to rear its VERY ugly head. Go ahead and not drive your car under 15 mph and you'll be just fine. I haven't figured out how to do that yet.

It is my responsibility to point out those things that are detrimental to car owners who are new to modifications. This would be one of them.

Now for you naysayers that want to talk about intake temps. Have you tested the temps of your intake when measured on the exterior of your intake and come to any repeatable findings? I have. Back to back. Several times. Here is what you will find. With an AEM/Mazdaspeed intake like the one shown (we use the same intake actually as we've found it to produce the most torque for us: 150 ft. lbs). You will find on the dyno that the actual air temp that the ECU will read (the RX-8 measures intake air temp as part of it's stock system (IAT)), doesn't vary much when exposed to heat blown from the radiator. In otherwords, when you run the car up and hot and then measure the underside (the hot side) of the intake, you will find that this temp is NOT what your car is actually reading. What the car will read is something much more closer to the actual temp at the air filter. Yes it increase a bit but nothing like you'll read with an infrared on the bottom side of the intake. We use the gold foil popular in racing circles and cover our intake. This helps quit a bit. I've found about 2 or maybe 3 hp delta between very hot air temps (measured just past the throtle body) and something more ambient. Therefore, you might earn a couple but at the expense of super hot water temps.

What about if you remove the plastic black plastic belly pan to allow the air on the back side of the radiator to escape? Strike two. It actually gets worse as the air that you want forced THROUGH the radiator diverts around it never to see the radiator and never (or very, very little) to flow through the rad and reduce water temps.

You want to learn something about your cars gang? Take a close look at how the air flows through the radiator and take a guess where it goes AFTER it passes through the radiator. Go ahead, take a look. You'll be surprised.

If you want a fancy-smancy sexy interior to impress your buddies in the supermarket parking lot then by all means have at it.

If you want to make your car go faster on the track then stick your battery in the RR of the trunk like a smart ole' chap on this forum already mentioned. Better yet, use the stock battery as these cars really need more weight in the RR.

I sit here before you guys typing on my laptop and expose myself to the arrows and bullets one might introduce WITH DATA. Don't give me that crap about (my little temp arrow is now on the other side of the little gauge thingee). Go find out the answers. Do you think race engineers stick their finger up in the air to measure outside air temp? Of course not. This is why your RX8 already measures water and air temp within it's stock system.

Please, somebody who can validate this step up with findings.

Respectfully and to help expose readers of this thread and forum with information so they can make informed decisions.

Eric Meyer

By the way, relocating your stock battery box and/or the entire battery will LOWER your water temps as there is less airflow blockage behind the rad (but you have to measure it before and after). Even better add a vented hood. Your thermostat will help to insure your water temps will not get too low. We run a water and an oil thermo to insure the engine operates at it's optimum (and safe) temperature range.

Paul----would you mind quickly asking Rick about the water temps he likes to see? This is one of the sources I have talked to about this exact same water temp issue. Same for Haskell at SpeedSource. Same for Daryl Drummond.

I'm not really sure why you're getting your panties in a twist. There are stock panels (one that holds the stock battery one that holds the stock airbox) that cover the exact same area as this thing.

So what's your point again?

I think the points were:
A) You can achieve minimal intake temp deltas (ambient to TB) without the panel.
B) Flow through the engine bay is poor in an Rx8.
C) Removing the battery from the engine bay is a cooling improvement.
D) There hasn't been any cooling system capacity tests.
E) Excessive heat kills engines.

So, you've mostly removed the battery blockage (an improvement) and then replaced it with a more thorough blockage than stock. So, if the stock cooling system is an issue stock (and in some applications it is) and you've constructed a part which has a net benefit of minimal intake improvement and net cooling system effectiveness reduction then it's a bad idea.

When you read and digest the entirety of Eric's post, it makes a lot of sense on its own foregoing his background/credentials. I wouldn't just discount it. You might run some numbers and stock you're fine. Others who might want to mimic the design should take its full effect into consideration. Maybe in some applications it is a very bad idea.

It just seemed a little excessive for something that changes very little compared to stock. Saying this little piece of aluminum that replaces a stock part is going to end up frying my engine is quite the accusation.

Jantz,

The best thing you can do is test your product in various forms for the customers who will use it in thier own unique applications to see what it does.

The worse thing that can happen is you make a few bucks on these things, somebody blows a motor and you get a nice letter from a lawyer.

Prospective customers----the best thing you can do is ask questions and help define value to make this product as good as it can be. I have found that a zillion of the people on this crazy forum are THE biggest tire kickers/"I want one of those"/"can we group buy this"/so and so will do it for $3 cheaper. I said it. Some of you are wonderful researchers and others like to ask "it's my first track day how much camber should I run duh de duh de duh." Read people, read. Lots of good info on this forum and their out a ton of good resources to tap into. Read. And then read some more. OK. Off soapbox. Back to reality. Most people want tire rack cool wheels and a subwoofer---good for you. Bad for you to beleive everything on this forum at face value.

The best thing that you can do Jantz is you make a few bucks and take your sweetheart to a nice dinner. And I'm behind product innovation 110%. Capitalism at it's finest.

Like I offered before, I have covered, uncovered, big fan, little fan, no fan, belly pan, big rad, bigger rad, super huge rad, stock water pump, remedy water pump, stock oil coolers, big oil coolers, giant oil coolers, oil thermo with and without, blah, blah, blah. My gut talks to me more strongly on this thread then any other thread on this forum. Most likely because we battled a heat issue and blown motors before we figured out what the heck was going on----this started my sales and marketing ass down the mechanical engineer / data collection road. I'm just a plain ole' dude that realizes the power of confirming your hunches. And my solid hunch says heat wave city.

There is another thing we saw and I'm not qualified to comment on this---perhaps someone smarter than I on the subject. I believe we saw in the very early stages of a stock ecu with a header, no A/F sensor recording and Ron Davis radiator a leaning of the motor with high water/oil (both?) temps. This led to a few expolosions and was related to the various issues (no sensors recording anything with our aim dash other than oil p, oil t, water t and volts. These really don't tell you much other than the engine is hot or not or the thing blew up. High rpms, temps and inconsistant fuel delivery = boom, boom get out of yellow pages. These issues went away when we adressed each of these issues----heat being the largest one. Some of you know we blew up and I purchased 14 motors that year. 14 (not a typo). So I was rather motivated to find out what the hell was going on inside of these things that make a header exhaust note that people hate.

A few things you guys might like:

Crazy airbox testing on the dyno. Note the 3 fans. Although this might look like a hillbilly beer fest, we collected lots of good data. You will see white racers tap on the various intakes which represent a dyno pull number based on the average of 3 pulls done back to back at about same engine temps. We did this a few times with other crazy intake designs however I didn't take any pics.

Sorry for the dirty car, I think we were pushing hard to get to Daytona or something.

Items logged were:
-Lambda .92 (if you don't know what this----google it!)
-Fuel P (usually about 90)
-Water T (start pulls about 185)
-Oil T (car makes more power when oil gets hotter---about 2 hp Oil at 210 F and water below 200, IAT as low as you can. We like to keep both water and oil below 200 on the dyno.
-Oil P: 8 trillion Kelvin (we have never had an oil pressure related issue). I hardly look at it anymore.
-ECU correction factor
-TPS (by the way, sometimes the stock throttle assembly will go kaput and you might chase your tails trying to figure it out). If there is a thread on this forum about that and you are playing with your car---read it.
-RPM blah, blah
-EGT (2)


http://gallery.me.com/meyermotorsports#100760

I know what works for me and have proven it out, otherwise ...

http://images-0.redbubble.net/img/clothing/backgroundcolor:fafafa/bodycolor:red/size:large/style:womens/view:preview/1437432-3-frankly-my-dear-i-dont-give-a-damn.jpg

I know what works for me and have proven it out, otherwise ...

http://images-0.redbubble.net/img/clothing/backgroundcolor:fafafa/bodycolor:red/size:large/style:womens/view:preview/1437432-3-frankly-my-dear-i-dont-give-a-damn.jpg


How much for the t-shirt sent to 46236? Does it come in blue? Group buy? Will it fit my 2006 AT with Michelins?

Prospective customers---the best thing you can do is ask questions and help define value to make this product as good as it can be.

I'm all for that but you're not really telling me anything about what is wrong with the product...

So far i've said i built a battery relocation kit that replaces the stock battery tray and intake tray and moves the battery further back and lower than stock. It's made out of aluminum... it's painted black...

If you really wanted to give some constructive criticism you would respond with something like... you shouldn't make it out of aluminum because of blah blah blah... or you should have the battery mounted there because of blah blah blah...

You don't really address my product in any of your posts here which doesn't help anyone. You keep talking about heat and how it destroys the engine but you don't say how this product contributes to higher engine or intake temps.

This was one of your first comments ....

"NOBODY is talking about the increased water temps this thing is going to see. "

Until you answer the question "Why will this product increase water temps?" please do not post here.

Furthermore, if you read post #77 you would realize that development on on this product ceased for a number of reasons (and quite a while ago). I had planned on testing intake and water temps once i had a finalized prototype and the means to measure temps etc (w/ a Cobb AP or something of the like -- which i still do not have)

I'm all for that but you're not really telling me anything about what is wrong with the product...

So far i've said i built a battery relocation kit that replaces the stock battery tray and intake tray and moves the battery further back and lower than stock. It's made out of aluminum... it's painted black...

If you really wanted to give some constructive criticism you would respond with something like... you shouldn't make it out of aluminum because of blah blah blah... or you should have the battery mounted there because of blah blah blah...

You don't really address my product in any of your posts here which doesn't help anyone. You keep talking about heat and how it destroys the engine but you don't say how this product contributes to higher engine or intake temps.

This was one of your first comments ....

"NOBODY is talking about the increased water temps this thing is going to see. "

Until you answer the question "Why will this product increase water temps?" please do not post here.

Furthermore, if you read post #77 you would realize that development on on this product ceased for a number of reasons (and quite a while ago). I had planned on testing intake and water temps once i had a finalized prototype and the means to measure temps etc (w/ a Cobb AP or something of the like -- which i still do not have)

You sound agitated and sharing more information might be moot. For those that may be uninformed about basic radiator design, airflow and air pressure, I'll help you see how restricting airflow is a bad idea. This is the issue that I've poorly explained to some of you.

The black aluminum piece on your product is a huge inhibitor to air flow through the radiator. Especially at the highest point of the bent aluminum shroud as it appears to be near flush with the radiator. This essentially makes the top 25% +/- non-functional. A closer look reveals what appears to be about 2/3 lateral restriction and possibly 1/3 to 1/4 height restriction. Hard to say for certain.

The bottom or lower portion of the height of your metal piece funnels the air downward. This means that balance of the air (100% - 25 or 30% or whatever is blocked from the upper part of the radiator) is now cramming itself. This INCREASES air pressure or makes more high pressure. Think of the top part of the black aluminum as a big wall that doesn't allow any or anymore air to enter and flow through the radiator. Basically it's contributing to higher pressure. To put this another way---you have made the radiator smaller. Most radiators have unrestricted area behind them. This helps air flow through the radiator and reduces heat. Think of the hood of a Ford GT as a more extreme example. Packaging of this radiator allows a design like this because the engine is in the rear and there is lots of space under the hood to allow for this design.

Since you are from Norman and moved to Seattle I would guess (probably wrong) that you worked at Tinker and now you work for Boeing (I'm probably wrong). Picture any of the engines in bldg. 3001. Think of air restriction behind the inlet fan or the turbine----this limits the amount of air the engine can process---same for automotive radiators. This leads to less cooling which leads to more heat retention in the engine resulting in higher temps which are nood good for rotaries in particular. Ask any rotary engine builder and they will confirm this.

Summary----dump the black cosmetic plate so the air can perform it's role to cool the engine.

One thing that would be trick (and you'd have to test and measure it to confirm functionality) is to place your smaller battery in front of the motor and make a diverting shroud which flows air (hopefully) to the sides of the motor to help it escape through the wheel wells. The front of our motor is also a "wall" of sorts that creates high pressure. Air flowing through the radiator hits the front of the engine and stalls/swirls/stops/restricts nice and smooth air flow to let the air escape. This is why you see some of the trick smaller radiators that flow lots of air and then let it freely escape on open wheel cars like IndyCar and F1. Smaller radiator that flow alot equate to better packaging, aero and give a designer more flexibility when coming up with a design.

Here is an example: http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/articles/indy500/images/garage/garage18.jpg

You will notice that there is nothing behind the radiator restricting air flow (which is the point I'm trying to make).

Your current battery tray the way its positioned also makes an airflow "wall". If you could go back to turning it on it's side it would have less exposed surface area and help increase more air flow than your current design. Is this making sense yet?

One of the things your design has working against it is the angle of the stock RX8 radiator. The top is tilted forward obviously. This means that airflow wants to go UP. This is where your design greatly resticts air movement. Your asking the air to bend. This furthur reduces air flow. Air doesn't like to bend which is why piston engine builders look at reducing the short turn radius of intake and exhaust ports (google for more info). This is also one of the reasons why most performance exhaust headers don't look like a pretzel on acid.

Can you bag the black shroud and turn the battery on it's side exposing less surface area? This would actually HELP air flow as the big stock battery and box are also current restrictions to better cooling. Better yet, relocate the battery to the trunk (which is probably getting away from your metal fabrication resources and heads down an "electrical solution" road.

I sincerely this has helped you better understand something I took for granted that everyone knows. My bad. I'm trying to help you avoid issues with marketing your current product and have people overheat their motors. The funny thing is all the race fabrication community knows this stuff and its a no-brainer. They wouldn't think twice about it. A little google-action reveals finding the logic behind these concepts is pretty hard to find which may be why people don't know this. The other part of the equation is probably based on your initial goals to produce something attractive in the engine compartment with no (or very little) considerationi to air flow. Either way I hope this has been an enlightening post.

Please feel free to contact me if you'd like to discuss furthur and/or explore alternate designs that provide consumer value.

Eric Meyer
Email: meyermotorsports@mac.com
www.meyer-motorsports.com

Side note: A few minutes ago I recvd an email from an RX8 owner who wanted to better understand the previous posts. He is a mechanical engineer. His objective is/was to reduce engine temps. After sharing basically the same stuff I'm shared on this post he got it. This tells me these concepts may be hard to grasp.

I understand what you're saying but I think you're still missing the point. This replicates stock parts (battery tray and intake tray) with very minimal changes. Please explain how this is at all worse for engine temps than the stock components.

As far as i'm concerned you might as well be emailing Mazda right now telling them about their flawed design of battery trays and intake trays and that your engine is going to blow because of them and you're going to sue them.

The black aluminum piece is not strictly a cosmetic piece. It was a means to securely mount the battery where i wanted to while keeping the design as close to OEM as possible. I figured keeping the design as close to OEM as possible would keep people like you from ripping the design to shreds.

Are you going to post a thread titled "Your engine is going to blow: remove your stock battery and intake ASAP!"? See what i'm getting at yet? Yes, there may be better ways of extracting heat from the engine bay but you haven't said anything about this being better or worse than stock because last time i checked most of us drive stock or close to stock cars (at least under the hood).

Please compare this product to a stock car not one of your race cars and continue...

The concepts are easy, the way they're being presented and communicated make me wonder if you've been hitting the spiked eggnog early. If excessive verbage was a grading factor you'd probably get an A+ rather than a Fail- :lol: otherwise you seem to have contradicted yourself multiple times which only leaves me one final option response:

http://ratonland.org/img/articles/bunny-pancake.gif



To answer your own PM, I provided my sage input earlier in the thread. After that it was clear some people were intent on hanging themselves so I obliged this desire by showing them where the rope and tree are located

Since you are from Norman and moved to Seattle I would guess (probably wrong) that you worked at Tinker and now you work for Boeing (I'm probably wrong). Picture any of the engines in bldg. 3001.

I think you have a issue with reading too.

He is a mechanical engineer. This tells me these concepts may be hard to grasp.

Just made me :lol:

this thread sure got heated fast. almost blew my motor.

Please compare this product to a stock car not one of your race cars and continue...


No thank you. You'll still fight me on it.

How about you test it and let us know how it works and confirm the temperature stays the same as stock?

You just dont have an answer for me. That's pathetic. You come in here crap on my thread and dont even give a suggestion? Unbelievable.

Your comments here are worthless. We're back at square one. Can't you see the flaw in your logic here? You come in ranting and raving about temperatures and you cant even answer the simple question of how is this product any different than the stock components?

You just dont have an answer for me. That's pathetic. You come in here crap on my thread and dont even give a suggestion? Unbelievable.

Your comments here are worthless. We're back at square one. Can't you see the flaw in your logic here? You come in ranting and raving about temperatures and you cant even answer the simple question of how is this product any different than the stock components?

Sorry man. Can't help you see opportunity for improvement in your product. Build it like it is and I hope you sell a ton of em'

Sincerely,

Eric Meyer

Unsubscribed.

Well then this whole thing could have been avoided if you would have just said:

"hey, have you done any testing to see if there have been any changes to water/oil/intake temps?"

I would have said "no, but i plan to -- however, development has stopped because of my current situation."

See?

Thread crap averted...

this thread sure got heated fast. almost blew my motor.


:rofl:

...Wowz. I would've liked to see what we're "supposed" to take into consideration with this stock replacement in the first place as well, but... I didn't see any explanation about it. I'm not trying to point fingers, but I want to know really, what Jantzen is "supposed" to be looking out for and why when, like he said, this is a direct stock replacement, just has a mount or whatever in it. Thats what I'm interested in seeing. :)

I don't see how any of this is difficult to grasp at all. Maybe the overly redundant and overly broken down (and therefore maybe somewhat circular and confusing?) explanations of Meyers did it.

Meyers says that the presence of the shield interferes with radiator flow. Jantz contends that the interference should be essentially identical to stock as the piece merely replicates the contours of the stock intake and battery boxes. So, at the end of the day, this set up, which is not in production, would move your battery and give you a pretty spiffy engine bay. It should exhibit essentially stock cooling characteristics (whether you consider that good or bad).

Personally, I did think the set up looked pretty good. I couldn't use one as I already have all that stuff moved/removed/something else there. However there are some things I'd like to fab out of simple sheet metal and I would hope they come out that clean.

So I guess the next question to be answered is... how is it supposed to affect cooling since it replicates stock "blocking" towards the radiator.

Meyers says that the presence of the shield interferes with radiator flow. Jantz contends that the interference should be essentially identical to stock as the piece merely replicates the contours of the stock intake and battery boxes. So, at the end of the day, this set up, which is not in production, would move your battery and give you a pretty spiffy engine bay. It should exhibit essentially stock cooling characteristics (whether you consider that good or bad).


As it were, it's not for sale and not in production so the entire discussion is only of value on a conceptual level.

There are two points.

First, the RX-8 if pushed hard needs all the cooling help it can get. Duplicating the OE radiator flow is a missed opportunity.

Second, whatever you put there will get heat soaked to the extreme. Care must be taken to provide heat protection where necessary.

One point I disagree with is ducting radiator flow away from the engine. As hot as the radiator air is, it stll provides cooling due to the high temperature coming off the engine itself. If you duct the radiator air away from the engine it will need to be replaced by another air source. This is tough to do within most racing classes, let alone a street car.

There are two points.

First, the RX-8 if pushed hard needs all the cooling help it can get. Duplicating the OE radiator flow is a missed opportunity.

Second, whatever you put there will get heat soaked to the extreme. Care must be taken to provide heat protection where necessary.

One point I disagree with is ducting radiator flow away from the engine. As hot as the radiator air is, it stll provides cooling due to the high temperature coming off the engine itself. If you duct the radiator air away from the engine it will need to be replaced by another air source. This is tough to do within most racing classes, let alone a street car.

agreed but that still doesn't mean people should bash the design right? it's replicating OE and may be a missed opportunity but that should mean we ask if jantz has thought about improving air flow instead of pointing to a design flaw that existed from the factory. that gives *him* the opportunity to improve upon the design if he so chooses.

I'm not here to argue that point. Just trying to clarify the ideas being presented and keep the thread on a more positive track. :)

Thanks guys. I like this type of discussion much better. All will be considered when i finally have the opportunity to make this happen.

I'm not here to argue that point. Just trying to clarify the ideas being presented and keep the thread on a more positive track. :)

i'm with you; that's why i agreed. :angel:

Listen Jan, were all here with blank checks awaiting your design. ;) Just kidding, but either way, interested to see how this goes as I'd like to go to a racing battery by April, and I may just go the route Team suggested, or this route if it's done by then. Either way, thanks for the info from all ends.

this thread sure got heated fast. almost blew my motor.

I was thinking the same thing. lol

This is why you see some of the trick smaller radiators that flow lots of air and then let it freely escape on open wheel cars like IndyCar and F1. Smaller radiator that flow alot equate to better packaging, aero and give a designer more flexibility when coming up with a design.

Here is an example: http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/articles/indy500/images/garage/garage18.jpg

I dont know why I thought about this during random adventures in the garage but...

So have you ever thought about those guys running such small radiators do not run your normal 92 or C16? Ever peer into the world of sprint cars and think how do they cool a 750bhp motor with a radiator the size of a laptop? Go stand by one running and soon you'll figure it out. Methanol burn rate at 1/8th of standard fuel. You can run it (off top of my head) like 15-18% rich without causing any real serious loss in power. So all the way through its burn cycle its being cooled wouldnt that mean less BTU being produced?

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj311/buddahbro/12615258392.gif

Hey, feel free to shoot down my idea? But what would the benefits / consequences of using aluminum black mesh instead of a solid plate. Then arguably you will conquer all concerns and have a wicked product?

I don’t know maybe I'm missing something obvious, but hey I'm trying to be constructive and I’m tired...

also I want one so sign me up.

I dont know why I thought about this during random adventures in the garage but...

So have you ever thought about those guys running such small radiators do not run your normal 92 or C16? Ever peer into the world of sprint cars and think how do they cool a 750bhp motor with a radiator the size of a laptop? Go stand by one running and soon you'll figure it out. Methanol burn rate at 1/8th of standard fuel. You can run it (off top of my head) like 15-18% rich without causing any real serious loss in power. So all the way through its burn cycle its being cooled wouldnt that mean less BTU being produced?

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj311/buddahbro/12615258392.gif

Well, those small sized "laptop size" radiators are used only for qualifying (for those that use them) if you're referring to what I think you are. Maybe two, unfolded laptops stacked on top of each other would equate a rough size comparison to what they use....but not 1. Secondly, they don't nearly have even close to the amount of air entry/exit restriction that a normal car does with full access to the radiator and the air is free to move off the engine around the car. Only the top 1/3 to 1/2 of the engine height is covered by those hoods while the rest is open to the outside air to blow off. This along with Methanol as you mentioned all plays a key to keeping their engines cool.

We're running gas, with much more complex air routes for it to exit the car and the engine is crowded with no real way for normal air cooling to do much effect whatsoever.

Well, those small sized "laptop size" radiators are used only for qualifying. This along with Methanol as you mentioned all plays a key to keeping their engines cool.
We're running gas, with much more complex air routes for it to exit the car and the engine is crowded with no real way for normal air cooling to do much effect whatsoever.

I think you totally missed the point like Eric did. Bolded statement is the soul point I was pointing towards. That is the reason they can run such a small radiator (and the size I gave was an example not to be taken directly correct). Sprint cars were just a good example because everyone should have been around them at one point in their life. He was trying to point that with free flowing air they can run a small radiator because of that. Which is slightly right, but fuel is the big one.

This had zero direction towards Chris setup because it retains the OEM style.

I think you totally missed the point like Eric did. Bolded statement is the soul point I was pointing towards. That is the reason they can run such a small radiator (and the size I gave was an example not to be taken directly correct). Sprint cars were just a good example because everyone should have been around them at one point in their life. He was trying to point that with free flowing air they can run a small radiator because of that. Which is slightly right, but fuel is the big one.

This had zero direction towards Chris setup because it retains the OEM style.

My response indeed had nothing towards the setup because it was just a more accurate reflection of what Sprint Cars use since I raced them for 8 years :D:

Methanol does indeed help a lot, but don't undermine the air cooling and how open the engine is to get access to it. With as much HP they put out and the increased compression ratio they must have in order to put out over 800+ hp for the big dog classes, if you restricted and boxed in that engine the temps would shoot up easily. With normal sized radiators they use which from what I know is no smaller than the one used in our 8 I wouldn't classify them as small. That and the fact is they rebuild those engines after every 3-4 races, tops whereas we are using strictly a stock setup hoping to last over 100k miles. The real question is that is more relevant in regards to methanol's effect for an 8 is how much less temperature wise does the engine see with the same OEM setup. I know some people are using this setup, I'd be interested as to how much lower in temps they are seeing.

On topic; If the new setup retains the same restriction imposed by the OEM box then nothing is being lost, agreed.

OK, I decided to keep my Odyssey PC545MJ battery up front for now, rather than the hassle of running cables to the rear (have done it before). Don't bother asking for one. I don't have the time or desire to fabricate parts as a business.


Rough fabrication completed

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150603&stc=1&d=1263981981



Test fitment before final deburring and finishing. None of this will be visible upon final completion because in addition to using the Odyssey metal jacket for heat protection the entire assembly surface area will be encased in durable insulation material.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150604&stc=1&d=1263981981

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150605&stc=1&d=1263981981

too bad this idea wont work with a turbo kit. :sad:

Nor the Hymee supercharger either since there's not a lot of room between it an the main drive pulley. It's a temporary, expedient solution for now. It will eventually end up in the trunk when I have more time later in the year. I needed the OE battery to be removed, but have many other more important mods to perform at the moment. This lets me have a battery to start and move the car around, as well as suffice for initial competition. 15 lbs front to rear won't make or break the handling.

Tonight I got it all insulated and ready to mount in the car. Final completion pics to follow ....


.

Thread revival:

Is anyone is interested in a DIY, wires, connecters ect for a battery relocation to the trunk let me know. I should be putting up a DIY and maybe a group buy if there is atleast 5 people. My install is much easier then the other DIY on the forum and only uses about 14' of both power and ground wire. Price for the kit minus a battery/mount should come in around $100 for 4GA power wire and ground wire. $130 for 2ga power wire. This would include a 60amp fuse, battery terminals and all needed connectors and heat shrink material.