I went to test drive an RX8, but they had no automatics left. I live in Ohio, and it was snowing but nothing but wet roads. Anyway, I can't drive manual - so he was test driving it while I sat in the passenger seat. While leaving the dealership he fish tailed while accelerating (for about 2-3 seconds), after that I assume he was kind of embarassed but started to go on about how he didn't turn on the dynamic control.

Anyway my questoin is this, there's NO question the RX8 is one of the most beautiful cars out there. It's hard for me to judge until I get behind the wheel, but how does everyone who has test drove an IS300 feel about a comparison?

The guy was quoting a fully loaded RX8 as 33K (with navigation). The Lexus with options I'm looking for is 34K. It's hard to tell which car drives smoother, I'm assuming the LExus does - but I didn't test drive it immediately after the RX8.

It's a very hard decision (buying a car) these days, there are a lot of good choices.

-ELmO

Originally posted by elmalloc
It's hard to tell which car drives smoother, I'm assuming the LExus does - but I didn't test drive it immediately after the RX8.


What do you mean by 'smoother'? There isn't ANY engine on the market at any price that is smoother than the Mazda Renesis rotary engine. The V12 engine would be second, and the inline 6 (as in BMWs and the IS300) would be third. If you mean smooth ride, then that has to be balanced against the handling. The RX-8 has an extremely good ride for it's level of handling (probably the best compromise between ride and handling for a sports car), but there are plenty of cars out there with smoother rides but not nearly as good handling.

Regards,
Gordon

I'm looking for a smooth ride. The lexus drove very smooth. I guess the Lexus isn't classified as a sports car, but more a luxury sports sedan.

I am looking for that type of car, maybe hte RX8 is more of a sport sedan. When I say luxury I mean a nice interior and smooth ride, with of course some balance with handling.

I didn't get to drive it so I can't comment on the handling, I thought the IS300 had great handling.

-ELmO

ELmO,

I love the handling in the RX-8. I believe that it compares to the M3. The Lexus is going to be more of a "Cadillac" ride than the RX-8 but you give up some of the sporty feel by doing that. Don't get me wrong the Lexus is nice. I test drove many cars before settling on this one and I am very happy with my choice. If I needed to give clients and co-workers regular rides around town it might have been a different story but I get to drive myself around most of the time and that is one reason why I chose this car. Otherwise I probably would have stuck with BMW since it has more backseat passenger room.

yeah you could get a lexus, but then you'll have what every one else out there has!

I have to disagree; the RX-8 handles much better than the M3, IMHO, especially in curves. You can really feel that the BMW's a largeish coupe as compared to the 8.

That isn't to say the M3 isn't a wonderful car that handles well, it's just that IMHO its handling isn't quite as tight in the twisties as the 8 is...

Originally posted by elmalloc
While leaving the dealership he fish tailed while accelerating (for about 2-3 seconds), after that I assume he was kind of embarassed but started to go on about how he didn't turn on the dynamic control.

Not too sure about this. You don't have to "turn on" DSC. It automatically turns on everytime you start the car. I don't know if there's a way to permanently disable it. He was just showing off, and not very skillfully.

Yup I don't think he was even showing off, he was fish tailing going straight in the snowy rain, then only a few seconds later he started to talk about how well it handled and how smooth it drives.

I will see how I like it when I test drive it on Monday. So far the only cars I liked driving were the IS300 and Accord V6 for different reasons.

-ELmO

I think elmalloc needs to state what he wants out of a car.

Sports car? The RX-8 and IS300 is not a sports car. S2000 and Boxster are closer to sports car.

GT cruiser? The IS300 is more comfortable IMO. You should be considering the G35 and A4 as well.

GT sports? To carry four adults in okay comfort, the RX-8. Only kids in the backseat, the G35 coupe.

From elmalloc comments, I think he's looking for GT cruiser. IMO the RX-8 will be a dissappointment to him because of the harsh ride and the (interesting) quirks of the rotary engine.

I want a luxurious sports sedan. What's that? 4 seats, leather comfortable interior, smooth ride (as in good suspension), good handling, good acceleration, and relatively small in size.

I'm not looking for a specific car, I'm looking for what car is fun to drive. THe Accord is fun to drive to me due to its PRICE RANGE (!) and 240HP. It's ugly and too big, though.

The IS300 seems to be a much better external size, it dosen't have "awesome" looks either, but inside it's acceptably luxurious. THe acceleration is less than the accord, it feelse to ride as smoothly though. It struggles just a little bit more than the accord on the highway (maybe due to 215 HP), not sure. It's a very quiet car, if you punch it though it roars - which is fun.

The 3 series steering is too stiff for me. I tried a Z4 also, and I dind't like the steering. I think it's something with RWD in general, the steering was just too much hands on - it's fun to drive - but sometimes I don't want to have to think so much - IE I want the car to drive straight hands-free. The lexus was doing that, but still had great handling. The BMW steering is as I said, very stiff, which may mean great handling - but it wasn't fun to drive for me.

So I sat in passenger for the RX8 today, will try it myself on Monday. SO far the IS300 is in the lead due to looking better than the accord. The RX8 wins in pure looks.

What do you call the RX8 if not a sports sedan? It IS a sports sedan. Call it coupe if you don't count suicide doors. I am looking for a LUXURY SPORTS sedan, see if you can find a definition from what I described - it seems it's hard to find.

PS - I'm goign to the Audi dealership next week. I am goign to try an A4 and TT. They also sell the cheap benz, so I am going to try some of those out. As I said, I am just looking for something that feels right. I don't think it hurts to try different types of cars. I thoguht I wanted a Z4, till driving it.


-ELmO

Elmalloc. Couple more cars for you to consider in this price range and what you are looking for. (comfort, looks, good speed).

Acura TL. Wonderful power, very refined, comfortable. I really like the 80's styling. The crease that runs the length of the car is very interesting.

Audi A4. Decent power. Probably the most refined in this class. Comfortable but might be on the stiff side like the BMW and the RX-8. The tall belt line and chopped greenhouse is interesting and masculine. Don't bother with the TT if you didn't like how the BMW Z4 or 3 series felt.

Infiniti G35. Excellent power, probably the fastest of the bunch. It's an early car so refinement isn't quite there. IMO the coupe is the best looking of the bunch. It's bit stiff but not as bad as the RX-8. This is a car I seriously considered until I found the backseats too small and was more expensive the RX-8 with the options I wanted.

Toyota Camry / Lexus ES300. Decent power. Okay looks. Most comfortable of the bunch with high levels of refinement.

Lexus IS300. Decent power. Decent refinement. I'm surprised you didn't find the IS300 as stiff as the BMW 3 series. This is a car I seriously considered until I found the back seats too small.

Chrysler Crossfire. You mentioned considering a Z4, which is a two seater. So is this one. Unique style. German engineering (basically last years Mercedes SLK). Supposedly excellent handling and power.

---

And here's my little rant. The RX-8 is a GT. GT cars is the Infiniti G35, BMW 3 and 5 series, and Mercedes C series. My definition of GT is a rear wheel drive car that can realisticly seats four people, suspension set up for performance (which is too stiff for most), decent power, and decent creature comforts. (And within GT I think it could further seperated by "GT cruising" and "GT performance".)

I think elmalloc is looking for something entirely different and doesn't realize he's in the wrong category. Unfortunately the level of refinement and quickness gets expensive. The BMW 7 series ($68k) and Audi A8 ($68k) would be what you are looking for. Can't have everything eh? Low price, good performance, and good comfort seem to mutually exclusive. Sigh, I would like to get an Audi S8... and a Lotus Elise... and get my old Miata back... and a Porsche Cayenne to haul the kids around...

Originally posted by elmalloc
after that I assume he was kind of embarassed but started to go on about how he didn't turn on the dynamic control.



Well...if the car was equipped with dynamic control...it would be turned "on" from the very moment he started the car. In order for it to be off, he'd have to start the car, then purposefully click it off. Every time you start the car, it should be on, even if you had it off before you shut your car off.

Do not quote me on this...but I believe the IS300 has 200 horses as well in the A/T trim, which is about the same as the A/T version of the RX-8. The IS300 will have more torque though because I believe it is a 3.0 Liter engine.

Most people complain that the IS300's suspension setup is too "soft" compared to 3 series BMW's. I personally feel that the RX-8 is as firm, if not firmer of a ride compared to the 3 series.

I will comment more later, but both BMWs I test drove were significantly stiffer in steering than the IS300 that I drove (all were relatively new with 20 miles on them). I'm not looking for a large car, either. As I said, th eonly thing I really find wrong in the accord is that it looks terribly ugly and is too large.

I believe the IS300 is 215HP with an inline 6, but I'll double check. I can go up to 38-40K in a car, not saying I want to though. Unfortunately, that's not "cheap" to most people. Car enthusiasts of course belive that is though, but I should and will find a car that I'm looking for in range.

-ELmO

Originally posted by Jsuzuki
Elmalloc. Couple more cars for you to consider in this price range and what you are looking for. (comfort, looks, good speed).
I think elmalloc is looking for something entirely different and doesn't realize he's in the wrong category. Unfortunately the level of refinement and quickness gets expensive. The BMW 7 series ($68k) and Audi A8 ($68k) would be what you are looking for. Can't have everything eh? Low price, good performance, and good comfort seem to mutually exclusive. Sigh, I would like to get an Audi S8... and a Lotus Elise... and get my old Miata back... and a Porsche Cayenne to haul the kids around...

Some other ones to consider then would something along the lines of either a A4 Quattro, just load it up.

Acura TSX

Possibly even the "new" Pontiac GTO.

Those are "comfortable" rides with quick pick speed.

I'd have to agree with jsuzuki. I love the RX-8, but it's not for everybody. He's looking for an executive style ride that'll get the ladies back to his suite for some action.

Every forum rejects me, lol. Everyone thinks I don't know what I want - the most important thing to me is that the car drives FUN to me. I haven't test driven the RX8 yet. Only the IS300 and yes Accord V6 have fit this category so far, but I haven't tried an Audi or benz. Maybe after driving a benz, I will like smoothness over acceleration, etc. I don't know how all of you know how every car drives without having test driven then, but that's what I'm doing right now. I will figure it out, it just takes me a month to pick the right vehicle.

I list what I'm looking for, but I could end up with a pickup truck, if it turns out it's fun enough. I don't have any restrictions (IE wife etc) but parents would like ot ride in it sometimes. It doesn't control my decision, though I would rather have 4 seats than not for various reasons.

-ELmO

If you want fun, then it's the RX-8 IMO. And I don't get the remark about its having a harsh ride.

The Audi TT if fun, too, and if you're driving in snow it makes more sense. But know what? It's really not as fun as the RX-8. Buy snow tires.

Elmalloc,

It seems as if you'd be better off going with the Lexus than the RX-8. You want a comfortable ride... sport suspensions and tight steering bother you... you can't drive a manual transmission...

All the above adds up to someone who should own a Lexus and not the Mazda.

You've asked for information about which car may be best for you... but you've asked a group of people who (for the most part) have made up their minds... and the decision most likely wasn't the Lexus.

The Mazda RX8 is in a league of it's own... from both a performance standpoint as well as it's design.

If you want a performance vehicle and you want to stand out; get the RX8... if you want comfort and luxury with service that ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BE BEAT (I've owned three Lexus vehicles); go with the Lexus.

Joe West

I completely agree with 640HP above. I have also owned three Lexus cars, including the IS 300 (wife's car but I drove it a lot). Lexus service and reliability are unapproached by any other make, there is no comparison. Lexus makes the best quality vehicles in the world.

The IS 300 handles well, and feels quick, but cannot compare to the RX-8 in these features. The benefits of the IS 300 are the quiet ride, smooth manner, and easy access to the back seats - sure the RX suicide doors are neat, but you still have to flip the front seat up. If you are going to use the back seats much, this is a huge consideration. The IS is a great freeway car, but is very capable around town as well. It did make me feel a little claustrophobic whether driver or passenger though.

The RX-8 is a driver's car that can transport 3 passengers if necessary. The IS more suitable for comfortable cruising (really the ES is even better for that) with occasional outbursts of fun - but just not nearly as FUN as the RX.

For me, there is no comparison. The style factor, fun factor, and rotary make the RX my choice. I think the IS 300 might be what you are looking for.

Before I bought my RX8, I was seriously considering the Accord V6 (sedan, automatic), TSX, and IS300. Among those cars, I narrowed things down to the TSX (which I almost bought, when all of a sudden my attention turned to the RX8). However, during my LONG wait for a white pearl TSX to come in, I was able to get to know and test drive the TL.

I've never raced, I don't know how to speed shift, and I don't know anything about performance mods. But I am extremely detailed in just about everything I do. The RX8 has a very supple ride for a sports car. Over road imperfections, it will make little pliant thumps to accommodate, which is far far more supple than the 350Z. The IS300 is much softer like the TSX, but I wouldn't call the ride smoother. When I made a right turn at a moderate speed, the IS300's suspension did a little jump-skip. I'm not talking about the tires skidding or jumping a little, I'm talking about something within the rear suspension structure. There were complaints about the suspension in earlier years, but apparently they haven't fixed it. There is no doubt it's there. The TSX simply did not do that. Its multi-link is superior. The RX8's suspension front AND rear is superior to both. Period. It's incredible how the RX8's suspension is tuned to give a little (that's why magazines say one can actually take it on long distance cruises, unlike the 350Z) yet carves ferociously around turns and bends like almost nothing else at the price- certainly not an IS300 or TSX OR TL- and like very few exotic cars can.

Remember, originally I wasn't even considering an RX8. I was really deciding between the IS300 and TSX. Between the two, the TSX is, in my opinion, clearly superior. But I understand you may want rear-wheel drive. If you don't have to have rear-wheel drive, I think you should really be comparing the TL to the RX8.

Originally posted by elmalloc
I will comment more later, but both BMWs I test drove were significantly stiffer in steering than the IS300 that I drove (all were relatively new with 20 miles on them). I'm not looking for a large car, either. As I said, th eonly thing I really find wrong in the accord is that it looks terribly ugly and is too large.


I think what you're saying about steering is that you like more power assist. The IS300, Accord, and TSX all have plenty of assist. But did you know that the RX8 also has a ton of power assist? This is the thing that surprised me the MOST when I first test drove the RX8. All the magazines loved the RX8's steering feel and talked about how precise it is. I had always assumed precision demanded a much heavier feel, like in my dad's old Datsun 280ZX. I was wrong. You REALLY REALLY need to test drive the RX8.

Another thing you should have noticed in the IS300 (besides the undeniable flaw/weakness in the rear suspension) is the HUGE dead spot in the center of the steering. It is the biggest dead spot of any car's I have ever driven. It's bigger than the early 90's civics'.

http://roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=236&page_number=1

This might help.

Thanks for the great posts everyone. I will comment later after a test drive on Monday.

Yes, I am looking for a ride with good suspension and yet still fun to drive (good handling). I've even been looking at cars in different leagues, other than the infiniti g35 - but also the FX35!

-ELmO

elmalloc, where in ohio are you located?

Ref the fishtail ... The tyres that are shipped with the RX-8 are crap in the wet and the snow ....

Upgrading them to SO3's will help a lot

Elmalloc-

From what I gathered of your description of the test drive... The dealer/salesmen that drove you around didn't know what he was doing.

Since he decided to accelerate and fishtail (which was dumb) I have decided that HE accounted for the "rough ride" in the Rx8... which I thought was an impossibility!!

So, my advice to you is to go drive an Rx-8 for yourself, and really see what's happenin'!!!!

Good luck,

Brit

ELmO:

I hear occasional rumors about a Lexus IS430 (V8) coming out to give the M3 a run for it's money. If I'd had a choice, I may have chosen that over the 8 only for the spectacular acceleration. As it stands, I'm glad I chose the 8. I know I would have enjoyed an IS300, though.

elmalloc: I just came from a 2003 EXV6 Accord to the RX8 6 M.T. as far as ride comfort I can tell you it's about the same although the Accord has more room. as far as ride quality the RX8 is actually better, the Accords was stiffer and the handling was subpar, they were compareably quiet as well., Since it seems you don't want a manual transmission and are leaning towards a conventional sport sedan I would recommend the G35 sedan with sport suspension or the new Acura TL if you want more luxury and still somewhat sporty!

If 4 doors are really important to you, I'd recommend the Audi A4... it's probably the car that best fits your stated price range and list of important attributes. The Audi TT is a more "fun" ride than the A4, but is a 2 door and only seats 2 adults. I can't imagine driving a TT with an automatic transmission though. They tend to be a bit porky and underpowered with a manual...

The Acuras are nice cars, but lacked the level of "fun" that I was looking for. Pretty subjective standard obviously, so YMMV.

The RX-8 handling and road feel were, to me, unsurpassed by anything else in the market, but getting it in A/T sort of defeats the purpose of having a rotary engine IMO. This is a car worth learning manual for.

Good luck whatever your choice is... they're all fine cars and you should do well with any of them.

Originally posted by elmalloc
I want a luxurious sports sedan. What's that? 4 seats, leather comfortable interior, smooth ride (as in good suspension), good handling, good acceleration, and relatively small in size.

I think everyone here as provided some great input for you. In my humble opinion, based on your stated requirements, the RX-8 is not the car for you. Hopefully, you drive most of the cars mentioned previously.

One car that was not mentioned, of which I seriously considered, is the Saab 9-5. I did my comparisons with makes like BMW, Volvo, Audi, and Honda. To me, the Saab was the best. I'd be in it, if my tastes didn't lean towards full sports cars.

When I first went to look at the 8 I went for a ride with a salewoman...she was crazy. I already knew what the car could do but she felt like she had to show me.

She was running the motor to the redline and then she'd say "did you here that buzzer?"

Next we're in this empty parking lot and she says watch this...she goes speeding up to a speed bump at about 30 mph and doesn't slow down and we fly right over it and she says "see that? this car doesn't bottom out over speed bumps."

Then next she starts doing donuts in the parking lot at 30 mph to show me the cars turning radius.

Then on the way out of the parking lot she says "hold on", I'm thinking to myself what the hell is she going to do now, then she slams on the brakes and says "hows that for stopping power." She nearly threw me through the front winshield cause I was wearing my seat belt.

When we get back to the dealer she wants to try and sell me THAT car and I'm thinking no thanks I really don't want THAT car. So I bought mine from another dealer where the car came straight off the storage lot and hadn't been driven by anyone expect the guy that drove it there from the dock.

lol

So elmalloc- Did you test drive today?

nope, called dealer at 7:30 and said I would come to try it out, but didn't have time. I still have to do more xmas shopping, I will have ot leave work around 1 PM tomorrow. I may not get to test driving it for a while now because of xmas, and them closing at 6 pm. Work sucks, especially when they don't give enough holidays off (IE only thursday off this week).

-ELmO

Originally posted by elmalloc
I went to test drive an RX8, but they had no automatics left. I live in Ohio, and it was snowing but nothing but wet roads. Anyway, I can't drive manual - so he was test driving it while I sat in the passenger seat. While leaving the dealership he fish tailed while accelerating (for about 2-3 seconds), after that I assume he was kind of embarassed but started to go on about how he didn't turn on the dynamic control.

Anyway my questoin is this, there's NO question the RX8 is one of the most beautiful cars out there. It's hard for me to judge until I get behind the wheel, but how does everyone who has test drove an IS300 feel about a comparison?

The guy was quoting a fully loaded RX8 as 33K (with navigation). The Lexus with options I'm looking for is 34K. It's hard to tell which car drives smoother, I'm assuming the LExus does - but I didn't test drive it immediately after the RX8.

It's a very hard decision (buying a car) these days, there are a lot of good choices.

-ELmO


Smoothness, you ask.

Through my own experience and others on the forum, I can tell you that the RX8 is one of the smoothest cars out there. This has to do with the rotary engine, you can't get much smoother than that. ALso, the transmission is very smooth as well. I don't think the 2 cars compare. If I were to buy a lexus I would not get there bottom of the line car, I would go for the higher up models. Either way, the RX8 destroys the IS300 in performance, looks, and price.

Originally posted by elmalloc
I'm looking for a smooth ride. The lexus drove very smooth. I guess the Lexus isn't classified as a sports car, but more a luxury sports sedan.

I am looking for that type of car, maybe hte RX8 is more of a sport sedan. When I say luxury I mean a nice interior and smooth ride, with of course some balance with handling.

I didn't get to drive it so I can't comment on the handling, I thought the IS300 had great handling.

-ELmO

ALso, I don't see how the IS300 could be considered a sports sedan, does anyone else?

It may look sportier than other Lexus', but it doesn't have the performance to back up a "sports" sedan label.


Now the G35 Sports sedan is a true sports sedan. I would consider the IS300 more like a Family sedan.

If my memory recalls the "sports sedan" label was put on the IS300 by Lexus, note to lexus: just because a car has an optional 5 speed or 6 speed manual doesn't make it a sports car or sports sedan.

What do you consider a sports sedan then?
I think the I6 215HP and the good handling is enough?

Is it the 4 doors that you don't like?
I don't mind 4 doros or 4 seats, I'd just rather have them because I hate the hassle of moving seats down (which I would still have to do in the RX8).

Originally posted by rotarymagic
ALso, I don't see how the IS300 could be considered a sports sedan, does anyone else?

It may look sportier than other Lexus', but it doesn't have the performance to back up a "sports" sedan label.


Now the G35 Sports sedan is a true sports sedan. I would consider the IS300 more like a Family sedan.

If my memory recalls the "sports sedan" label was put on the IS300 by Lexus, note to lexus: just because a car has an optional 5 speed or 6 speed manual doesn't make it a sports car or sports sedan.

This IS 300 is a luxury sports sedan. The ES 300 is a luxury family sedan. The IS may not perform quite as well as the RX or G35, but it is still in that catagory. Even with auto and "tiptronic-like" SW paddles, it is a sporty car (we had a 2001 1st gen IS 300 before they offered MT). You can get funky with it and have fun, but still have the incomparable Lexus quality, reliability, and quietness to boot. It fills a niche if that is what you are looking for.

The IS 300 brakes from 60 in 118 feet, about the same as the G35 with Brembos (117) and faster than most cars with that label. The quarter mile is in 15.4, same as the Audi A4 3.0. The slalom speed is 64.5, faster than the Audi or the Acura 3.2 TL (both 64). All the IS 300 numbers compare favorably with the MB 320 Sport.

Bottom line - a very nice sport sedan with luxury.

Elmo, did anyone mention the BMW M5, Mercedez AMG series or the Audi S4? Theyre kinda expenive, but if you look up SPORTS SEDAN in the dictionary, it will give you that list. Seriously, those are the ultimate Sports Sedans available.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
This IS 300 is a luxury sports sedan. The ES 300 is a luxury family sedan. The IS may not perform quite as well as the RX or G35, but it is still in that catagory.
...
The quarter mile is in 15.4, same as the Audi A4 3.0. The slalom speed is 64.5, faster than the Audi or the Acura 3.2 TL (both 64). All the IS 300 numbers compare favorably with the MB 320 Sport.

Bottom line - a very nice sport sedan with luxury.
The IS300 isn't a very luxurious car IMHO.

The interior is crappy compared to other Lexi and other cars in its class and price range. It should be sold as a Toyota (it's the Toyota Altezza in Japan, Lexus nameplate doesn't exist there). Audis (esp. them) and MBs have much better interiors compared to the IS300.

I couldn't speak to the other speeds and times but 15.4 in the 1/4 mile is slow. 5th gen Maximas automatics which are cheaper run the 1/4 mile in as fast as 14.6 (I've done a 14.908 myself in my stock 02 Max), the manuals are as quick as 14.2-14.3 stock. The IS300 has 40 hp less than the Max and weighs a little more too. I'm sure a V6 Altima [almost identical weight, same engine] would get very similar times in the 1/4 to the 5th gen Max and therefore smoke the IS300. I know Motorweek ran a 14.4@100 on a stickshift Altima V6.

It's funny how you bring up the A4 3.0 and MB320. They also have low hp (220 hp and 215 hp) and are even heavier than the Max and IS300. The MB320 is also quite expensive.

I guess the Accord V6, Altima and Maxima should also be called "sport sedans".

To its credit, the IS300 is RWD.

Yes, the Accord V6, Altima and Maxima ARE sport sedans. Just not LUXURY sport sedans. The LUXURY features which make the cars more LUXURIOUS are also heavier. If all you care about is 0-60 times and quarter times, get a WRX or EVO.

luxury and sport are all relative terms anyway, not to dissrespect, but I'm guessing there are some out there that wouldn't even consider an RX8 a "sports car", if you want to go ahead and throw the word "luxury" around even though the cars have leather everywhere and are comfortable.

I think the IS300 so far is the closest to a luxury sports sedan that I've driven personally. I'm more about 0-60 acceleration, with as much luxury as possible, and good handling. I've driven a BMW Z4 and 325i, and I didn't enjoy the handling of either - even thought they may be toted as "the ultimate driving machine", it wasn't fun to me.

I will test drive the RX8 monday afternoon, or possibly tomorrow if they are open and let you guys know.

Thanks,
ELmO

Mazda RX-8 not a sports car??.. You gotta be kidding me.
S2000 and Porsche a sports car?.. Well, yah, if you got the 45-90k in your pocket and only two seats in your mind...

Elmo, you need to do two things:

1) Learn to drive a manual. If you're good at driving, which you seem like you are, it should take you only a few hours. I bet if you knew how to drive a manual, I guarantee you will want to get the manual RX-8 above all.

2) Get options for your RX-8 and you already got Navigation, moon roof, power/heated seats, alloy wheels, spoiler, and what not.

Oh yah, RX-8 from 0-60 is like 5.9 seconds, but maybe a little slower with all the options. I think that's fast enough because when are you ever going to need it anyway unless you are racing...

My conclusion:

Get a Mazda RX-8.

If you really really really want more luxury, you gotta whip out that wallet, man. Other than that, the 8 is really the best car at the best price IMHO. Don't ask for too much in a car, or else you are going to regret whatever you buy.

You can use the extra money to tint windows, buy zaino, and change wheels if you want...

By the way, the post about the mad lady driver in the parking lot is the funniest thing ever.

So you can throw the definition of luxury around but not a sports car, interesting. I'll take your info into consideration. I can't buy manual, I'm not the only one who will be driving it. I do take some consideration for others....

Originally posted by elmalloc
So you can throw the definition of luxury around but not a sports car, interesting. I'll take your info into consideration. I can't buy manual, I'm not the only one who will be driving it. I do take some consideration for others....

Well, check out some cars w/luxurious interiors like almost Audi A4 thru A8, Lexus ES330, Lexus LS430 or high end Mercedes. Then tell me that the IS300 is a "luxury" car. It isn't in my boat.

Some of those cars are way out of rang ein a different "league". I'd make a bet peopel with that kind of money think the RX8 isn't really a "Sports" car either, or why wouldn't they buy it? They are probably paying 50K for something else.

-ELmO

I currently own an IS300 and possibly looking to pick up an RX-8 next.
The build quality, smoothness, reliability, looks, safety was a big factor for me purchasing the IS. The IS is a fun car, brings a smile to my face everyday. The handling and braking are top notch, wish it had more power though.
I run it in auto-x events all the time, came in second place in DS. The car holds its own against more nimble and faster cars such as the WRX, RSX-type S, 330i and the Audi S4.

Hate to say it, since I love rotaries and Mazdas, but I would not compare a Mazda to a Lexus. Different leagues.
The RX has it strong points, and so does the Lex.

Look, I had an IS and loved it as explained above, but there is no way it can "hold its own" against a 340 hp S4, or for that matter, even a WRX on the track. The other cars, maybe. Who are you kidding?

To answer the luxury question, luxury is not just found in the quality of interior materials. The quality of the ride, quietness, fit and finish, RELIABILITY, service, buying experience, and other factors must be considered. The IS may not look as luxurious as the LS 430, but the other features are purring along under the skin to keep you feeling pampered.

The RX-8 is still more fun.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
Look, I had an IS and loved it as explained above, but there is no way it can "hold its own" against a 340 hp S4, or for that matter, even a WRX on the track. The other cars, maybe. Who are you kidding?

To answer the luxury question, luxury is not just found in the quality of interior materials. The quality of the ride, quietness, fit and finish, RELIABILITY, service, buying experience, and other factors must be considered. The IS may not look as luxurious as the LS 430, but the other features are purring along under the skin to keep you feeling pampered.


I don't think meteoro is kidding. I've watched (but not participated in auto cross), but from what I've seen and heard, it doesn't really help to have a really powerful car as you never even get up to say 75 mph. Handling and driving skill have a lot more to do with it.

Err... it's funny you bring up reliability. I guess Audis and Mercedes must not be luxury cars because many Audis and most Mercedes have lousy reliability. I'd include comfort in there and the amount of interior room plays a back role there. The IS doesn't have a whole lot of room.

The IS did make me feel claustrophobic, that's why I wouldn't take it as my daily driver.

Audi and MB have average reliability, compared to Lexus they are lousy, but compared to the whole auto world, they are average.

An expert driver in an IS could probably beat an average driver in an S4 or a WRX STi. If the drivers were equal, no contest.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
Audi and MB have average reliability, compared to Lexus they are lousy, but compared to the whole auto world, they are average.

An expert driver in an IS could probably beat an average driver in an S4 or a WRX STi. If the drivers were equal, no contest.

Almost all Mercedes models have far worse than average reliability. Most Audis are average to somewhat worse than avg. except the TT (which is much worse than avg). I'd be happy to post some reliability stats from various sources (Consumer Reports and JD Powers) when I get a chance.

Check out an autocross event, I think you'll think differently, esp. given the handcapping system that they use.

I'm not giving any handicap points, I'm talking elapsed time around a given track.

JD Power lists Audi and MB as average.

Your arguments are getting tiresome, begone. I'm done here.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
I'm not giving any handicap points, I'm talking elapsed time around a given track.

JD Power lists Audi and MB as average.

Your arguments are getting tiresome, begone. I'm done here.
I guess you didn't read meteoro's statement "I run it in auto-x events all the time, came in second place in DS. The car holds its own against more nimble and faster cars such as the WRX, RSX-type S, 330i and the Audi S4."

Take a look at http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/2002/PAX.html and
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2003/stockc.html for some more info about Auto-X. Auto-X doesn't reward speed as much as you think.

As for JD Power, take a look at the 2003 Vehicle Dependibility Index at http://cp.yahoo.net/search/cache?p=j.d.+power+long+term+dependability+study+2 003+&ei=UTF-8&n=20&fl=0&url=Ud7Yw-2NrKUJ:www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp%3fStudyID=749%26CatID=1 (their site is down, this is a cached copy) and the graph at http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2003050bfull.gif. Notice that Audi and MB had 318 probs per 100 vehicles vs. the average of 273. Take a look at the latest CR buying guide issue or the April auto issue. You'll see many Mercedes (most of them) and Audis have below average reliability across many model years compare that to Japanese makes like Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, and Nissan/Infiniti.

Here's another thing that helps support what I'm saying:
http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=02881991&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=1777888&record=1

Is Infiniti the japanese version of nissan?

Originally posted by elmalloc
Is Infiniti the japanese version of nissan?

Jah.

Originally posted by elmalloc
Is Infiniti the japanese version of nissan?

Actually no. Infiniti is to Nissan as Lexus is to Toyota, and Acura is to Honda. Infiniti is the upscale division of Nissan.

Huh? But isn't the Japanese Toyota = USA Lexus and Japanese Honda = USA Acura? Or is just happen to be that way (upscale/downscale, etc)?

http://s92486709.onlinehome.us/Gallery/uncle%20069.jpg

Thanks.

Originally posted by elmalloc
Huh? But isn't the Japanese Toyota = USA Lexus and Japanese Honda = USA Acura? Or is just happen to be that way (upscale/downscale, etc)?


Hmm, your question is a bit confusing. Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti are upscale luxury brands of Honda, Toyota and Nissan respectively. Those upscale brands don't exist in Japan. If memory serves, Acura was the 1st Japanese luxury nameplate, the other two companies then followed. There are no Lexuses in Japan (although they did showcase them at Tokyo Motor Show and at a Toyota Showroom I went to and sort of explained what they were).

Examples: The Acura Integra (and now RSX here) is just the Honda Integra in Japan. The Acura NSX is the Honda NSX in Japan. The Lexus SC430 is the Toyota Soarer in Japan. The Lexus IS300 is the Toyota Altezza in Japan. The Infiniti G35 is the Nissan Skyline 350GT in Japan.

YOU SHOULD DRIVE A FULLY LOADED MAZDA 6, I THINK YOU WILL REALLY LIKE IT

Alright, I'll try it.

http://s92486709.onlinehome.us/images/capslock.gif

Elmelloc, you are right to insist that the car for you is the one that feels best to you, no matter what anyone else says.
BUT, for what it's worth, experts (Road & Track editors) think the 3 series has been softened up a bit from earlier versions, and thought the IS300's ride was stiffer in comparison tests. In evaluating ride, consider what kind of driving you do most -- quality of road surface, your speed (in general or on curves). At slow speed on chopped-up roads, the 8 is bouncy. At high speed, curves and all, on good roads the 8 is very comfortable, with just a bit more roll than kidney-busters like the later model RX7s.
Your reaction to the Accord -- too big, therefore clumsy -- means you might especially enjoy the 8's agility. Because of its unusual weight distribution, with not only front/rear balance but also most of the weight towards the center rather than the ends, it feels as if it is swivelling around the center on sharp curves. One thing that impresses people who try my 8 is doing 180s -- or 360s.