RX 8 vs. S2000 ??? [Archive]

revhappy

12-13-2003, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by WTF no turbo
Ok heres my take.mazda put more money in the car itself then taking a $13000 4 door family sedan droping in a turbo, hood scoop and some suspension and calling it a rally car.While yes ill agree their fast no doubt,i personally couldnt live with a neon interior.Sti is prolly the best as far as entire package goes but its still a turbo'd up family sedan.Want a race car?Buy a fd or mkIV thats a race car.430 rwhp in my supra in my younger days would laugh at these evos and sti's and i only had about 6k in it.When mods start to really sprout up for the 8 i see 230 to 250 na and 300s fi.Compare apples to apples mazda could have made 8's much faster but at what price point?To rev those tickets were ran by judge not mazda.

How come every discussion about the EVO (or WRX and STI) on this board leads to the "hopped up econbox" mentality. What's so great if this "revolutionary design" doesn't give the car the performance. Frankly, Mazda made the RX8 try to be too many things to too many people. Its looks and performance are compromised as a result. Really, if you want a 4 door sports car that looks like one get the RX8, if you want a car that outperforms most sports cars and seats four people - get an EVO or STI.

ranger4277

12-13-2003, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by revhappy
How come every discussion about the EVO (or WRX and STI) on this board leads to the "hopped up econbox" mentality.

Because that is what it is?

Back to the S2000, I love that car! Maybe that's why I love my 8 so much... they have a lot in common.

Twin 8s!

12-13-2003, 12:39 PM

Hornet,

Your thoughts...
While they may not be "naturally aspirated", the stock form of the Evo and STI are with turbos and the tuned suspensions. I will agree that those 2 are niche type of cars but then again the RX-8 also seems to be a niche type of car with the extra doors, great handling, and similar price point. Those 3 things make it easy to start comparing these cars. Don't get me wrong, I know the RX-8 might be in over it's head when compared to a lot of these cars but by no means should it be left out to the conversation. If you pick 10 "bang for the buck" cars the RX-8 falls in that group along with the Evo, STI, 350Z, S2000, etc.....

BTW, can we at least compare the RX-8 to the BMW 330......

First, the "stock" EVO is a LANCER! Hence the name LANCER EVO! This is no different than the Neon and the Neon SRT-4. One is there mainstream mass production vehicle and one is a niche product. If you want to compare niche products against an RX-8 you will have to wait for the Mazdaspeed addition for something simliar.

Ref your thoughts on BMW and the 330, I think it is difficult to compare motors but I do not see why the rotary engine should give up more than double its displacement just do the bimmer can save some face.

Ike

12-13-2003, 03:08 PM

Hornet

12-13-2003, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Twin 8s!
Hornet,

Your thoughts...

First, the "stock" EVO is a LANCER! Hence the name LANCER EVO! This is no different than the Neon and the Neon SRT-4. One is there mainstream mass production vehicle and one is a niche product. If you want to compare niche products against an RX-8 you will have to wait for the Mazdaspeed addition for something simliar.

Ref your thoughts on BMW and the 330, I think it is difficult to compare motors but I do not see why the rotary engine should give up more than double its displacement just do the bimmer can save some face.

Thank you for the attempt at educating me but I am aware of the roots of the Evo. Now can we keep this respectful.

Here is my rebut, what stock means as far as I understand it that means "as purchased from the manufacturer" another trim level does not exclude a car from being stock. What you just described sounds like what would be referred to as a "base model". Strangely on another note Mitsubishi kinda markets the Evo as a seperate vehicle while it is still linked to the Lancer in it's basic form (don't believe me try to build a Lancer on their web site and see if Evo is a "trim level"). If what you say holds true then we need to change how we define some other vehicles like the wave of crossover vehicles, because their basic underpinnings belong to cars but they don't get the "that's not stock" treatment because their body varies enough for us not to notice.

As for the BMW 330 it's been said time and time again that the 1.3L rotary may be equal to an engine 2 to 3 times it's size. A 3.0L fits in that window. Straight line performance numbers that I was able to find on the 330's are amazingly similar to the RX-8's. How is that saving face for the Bimmer?

rotarygod

12-13-2003, 05:59 PM

There is absolutely no point in comparing the RX-8 with any of those other cars. Mazda didn't design the RX-8 to compete with an EVO or WRX. They designed it to be different and that it is. How is comparing it going to change that? Who cares if the car is faster or slower than another car? No one is forcing you to buy or own it. If you would rather have more power then go buy one of those cars. Here, just to add to a pointless argument, an Enzo will kick the crap out of all of them. Who cares! I don't and it is an exercise in stupidity to begin with. If you need the exercise then go ahead and argue away. No one will ever win this debate though.

Anthony

12-13-2003, 06:28 PM

Going back to the original question I can comment as I am coming from an S2000 to an RX8.

The S2000 is by far a quicker car, on my test drive my dealer asked me how the RX stood up. He looked disappointed when I told him the RX was definitely slower, but you have to keep in mind that they are not aimed at the same market.
Also in an out and out race a lot would depend on the driver as has already been said, but also on the S2000 clutch, know for slipping, so could result in the S2000 making lots of noise, lots of smoke and alot smell, but not a lot of motion - that is the only way the RX will win.

Anthony

Broker73

12-13-2003, 06:33 PM

curious? a good friend of mine has a 2003 s2000, and I have to say it seemed no faster than the 8? I personally think both are very close, but the edge might be given to the s2000?

but I think they put very close 0-60 and 1/4mile times. I know the 2004 s2000 has made some improvements on performance, but I don't think there was a noticable difference between his 2003 and the 8. I think most cars will feel faster than the 8, not because they are, but because the 8 has such a different feel, until you look down and relaize how fast you are going. :D

WTF no turbo

12-13-2003, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The stock EVO is a EVO, it may share the same shell as Lancer but the similarities stop there. The same goes for the other cars you mentioned. If you think the EVO and the STi are highly modified you're in for a bit shock. Mod for mod those cars will get more gains than the RX-8 will, they are far from being highly modfied, and far from being tapped out from the factory. They do deserve comparison, they can all seat 4, they fall in a similar price range, they are all performance oriented cars that handle well, and they all have a factory warranty when in stock form.
They share alot more then the shell.Interior of an evo looks like my 01 taurus company car.Mazda coulda made a fast shit box but they didnt thank god.I for one would rather mod up a nicer car to get the speed i want.Im not knocking evo or sti's to each his own i coulda bought either of them.Only other car that i think can compare to a rx-8 is a g35c which i almost bought,but the 8's styling won in the end.Msrp to msrp ill take the 4500 difference and get about 40 more hp with mods and get the best of both worlds.

revhappy

12-13-2003, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Twin 8s!
Hornet,

Your thoughts...

First, the "stock" EVO is a LANCER! Hence the name LANCER EVO! This is no different than the Neon and the Neon SRT-4. One is there mainstream mass production vehicle and one is a niche product. If you want to compare niche products against an RX-8 you will have to wait for the Mazdaspeed addition for something simliar.

Ref your thoughts on BMW and the 330, I think it is difficult to compare motors but I do not see why the rotary engine should give up more than double its displacement just do the bimmer can save some face.

As Ike suggested, the similarities are almost just skin deep. Anyway, a Mazdaspeed version would likely cost more than the RX8 and EVO. In addition, there ARE limited edition higher performing EVO models overseas.

Overseas Standard EVO - 280 HP, Active Yaw Control (AYC)and Active Center Differential (ACD)
Luxury EVO - leather and other crap - yuck!
FQ330 - 330 HP, AYC, ACD, upgraded, intercooler, etc.
EVO RS Sprint - ~340 HP, no AYC, ACD - smaller wheels , stripped lighter model.
EVO Extreme - ~340 HP - AYC, ACD

US - Next Year - RS - 15 inch wheels, no wing, couple hundred pounds lighter - ~$25 K - limited edition model for niche audience.

revhappy

12-13-2003, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by WTF no turbo
They share alot more then the shell.Interior of an evo looks like my 01 taurus company car.Mazda coulda made a fast shit box but they didnt thank god.I for one would rather mod up a nicer car to get the speed i want.Im not knocking evo or sti's to each his own i coulda bought either of them.Only other car that i think can compare to a rx-8 is a g35c which i almost bought,but the 8's styling won in the end.Msrp to msrp ill take the 4500 difference and get about 40 more hp with mods and get the best of both worlds.

If I want to be coddled, I'll lie on my couch and each nachos while watching tv.

revhappy

12-13-2003, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by Broker73
curious? a good friend of mine has a 2003 s2000, and I have to say it seemed no faster than the 8? I personally think both are very close, but the edge might be given to the s2000?

but I think they put very close 0-60 and 1/4mile times. I know the 2004 s2000 has made some improvements on performance, but I don't think there was a noticable difference between his 2003 and the 8. I think most cars will feel faster than the 8, not because they are, but because the 8 has such a different feel, until you look down and relaize how fast you are going. :D

That's what we hoped for, but it did not pan out. S2000- 1/4 mile high 13 to mid 14s, RX8 1/4 mile high 14s to mid 15s.

Ike

12-13-2003, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by WTF no turbo
They share alot more then the shell.Interior of an evo looks like my 01 taurus company car.Mazda coulda made a fast shit box but they didnt thank god.I for one would rather mod up a nicer car to get the speed i want.Im not knocking evo or sti's to each his own i coulda bought either of them.Only other car that i think can compare to a rx-8 is a g35c which i almost bought,but the 8's styling won in the end.Msrp to msrp ill take the 4500 difference and get about 40 more hp with mods and get the best of both worlds.

Ok Einstein, what else do they share? And I disagree with your statement that mazda could make a fast shitbox, shitbox maybe, fast doubt it. Well maybe I'm wrong, if something has a disposable engine does that make it a shitbox? :p

Twin 8s!

12-13-2003, 11:26 PM

Thank you for the attempt at educating me but I am aware of the roots of the Evo. Now can we keep this respectful.

Here is my rebut, what stock means as far as I understand it that means "as purchased from the manufacturer" another trim level does not exclude a car from being stock. What you just described sounds like what would be referred to as a "base model". Strangely on another note Mitsubishi kinda markets the Evo as a seperate vehicle while it is still linked to the Lancer in it's basic form (don't believe me try to build a Lancer on their web site and see if Evo is a "trim level"). If what you say holds true then we need to change how we define some other vehicles like the wave of crossover vehicles, because their basic underpinnings belong to cars but they don't get the "that's not stock" treatment because their body varies enough for us not to notice.

As for the BMW 330 it's been said time and time again that the 1.3L rotary may be equal to an engine 2 to 3 times it's size. A 3.0L fits in that window. Straight line performance numbers that I was able to find on the 330's are amazingly similar to the RX-8's. How is that saving face for the Bimmer?

Thank you for providing your understanding of "stock".... Having reviewed your profile, as a 19 yr old, I guess the concept of performance versions of mass marketed autos is something new. In reality, they have been around for a loooong time. As examples, there have been the Olds Cutlass and the 442, the Charger and the Daytona Charger, the Roadrunner and the SuperBee, the Baracuda the Hemi-Cuda the Cuda AAR, the Javelin and the AMX... This list goes on and on.

The EVO is a Lancer chasis that has been highly modified. Granted, you may be able to modify it further, but none the less, it is a factory built niche auto based on the original Lancer chasis. The reason they market separately is because the vehicle has been successful not because it is a normal mass production vehicle. The Mazda RX-8 is not a niche vehicle.... quite the contary, the reason there are backseats is to make the vehicle appeal to an even larger audience. The 6MT RX-8 is a stock vehicle waiting to be modified. The Lancer has been modified and called the EVO. It is not even listed on MSN.COM for 2004. If you compare the 2003, the EVO is more expensive. While the Lancer ES is just 14K.

Now with all of the above stated, I note that the EVO and WRX are great performance versions of the original base model cars and when Mazda provides a turbo-charged, intercooled factory version, we will all be waiting to see it compared to the other niche vehicles out there.

With regards to the BMW 330, its base price is $8,000.00 more than the 6MT RX-8. Why do you think this is a fair comparison? Tell ya what, you send 8k my way and I will beat any 3 series BMW you can find. .... by the by I happen to like bimmers... I just cannot afford them.

Ike

12-14-2003, 12:07 AM

Hey, why stop there, a Z28 isn't stock, Z24, anything SS, MSP Protege, Acura Type S or R anything, Z06, Iroc, Spec-V, SE-R, GT-R, M3, M5, S4, S6, RS6, RS4, SVT Focus, Mustang GT, Mustang Cobra, the list goes on and on... I guess none of those cars are "stock" huh?

rabinabo

12-14-2003, 12:44 AM

Who cares whether it's called a lancer evolution or just an evolution or whether you say it's stock or not, if you look at it from the outside it still looks like a beefed-up lancer. That's what Twin 8s! was trying to say. The exterior would appeal mostly to the mod crowd, the same guys with the huge wings on their civics.

The 8 is entirely distinct from the cars out now, which is why it draws so much attention. It looks like a true sports car. And let's just allow some time for mods to develop. I mean it's a 2004 model, and it's still 2003 for christ sake :)

rotarygod

12-14-2003, 03:32 AM

I'm still going to stick to my original comment and say that comparisons are childish and a complete waste of time. If the car isn't fast enough, go buy something else.

Hornet

12-14-2003, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Twin 8s!
Thank you for providing your understanding of "stock".... Having reviewed your profile, as a 19 yr old, I guess the concept of performance versions of mass marketed autos is something new. In reality, they have been around for a loooong time. As examples, there have been the Olds Cutlass and the 442, the Charger and the Daytona Charger, the Roadrunner and the SuperBee, the Baracuda the Hemi-Cuda the Cuda AAR, the Javelin and the AMX... This list goes on and on.

The EVO is a Lancer chasis that has been highly modified. Granted, you may be able to modify it further, but none the less, it is a factory built niche auto based on the original Lancer chasis. The reason they market separately is because the vehicle has been successful not because it is a normal mass production vehicle. The Mazda RX-8 is not a niche vehicle.... quite the contary, the reason there are backseats is to make the vehicle appeal to an even larger audience. The 6MT RX-8 is a stock vehicle waiting to be modified. The Lancer has been modified and called the EVO. It is not even listed on MSN.COM for 2004. If you compare the 2003, the EVO is more expensive. While the Lancer ES is just 14K.

Now with all of the above stated, I note that the EVO and WRX are great performance versions of the original base model cars and when Mazda provides a turbo-charged, intercooled factory version, we will all be waiting to see it compared to the other niche vehicles out there.

With regards to the BMW 330, its base price is $8,000.00 more than the 6MT RX-8. Why do you think this is a fair comparison? Tell ya what, you send 8k my way and I will beat any 3 series BMW you can find. .... by the by I happen to like bimmers... I just cannot afford them.

Ok, I need to apologize for not being more clear with the RX-8 and 330 comparison. My RX-8, while not the standard, is fully loaded with the exception of GPS. The price the dealer was asking was $33k ($35k with GPS) where the 330 has a price range of about $34 to $37k. I now understand what you meant and you do have a point.

On the other thing, I can't open MSN's auto site right now for some reason but the Evo is a '03 model.

I definitely look forward to seeing what Mazda can do with the RX-8 though. I know I may seem a little biased on this issue but I'm not knocking the RX-8 just speaking from my research and experience with the Evo (and some research on the STI). The only car I might have bias against is those darn Mustangs (although I might find myself being strangely drawn to a Cobra every now and then).

Hornet

12-14-2003, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by rabinabo
Who cares whether it's called a lancer evolution or just an evolution or whether you say it's stock or not, if you look at it from the outside it still looks like a beefed-up lancer. That's what Twin 8s! was trying to say. The exterior would appeal mostly to the mod crowd, the same guys with the huge wings on their civics.

The 8 is entirely distinct from the cars out now, which is why it draws so much attention. It looks like a true sports car. And let's just allow some time for mods to develop. I mean it's a 2004 model, and it's still 2003 for christ sake :)

You would be surprised who that car appeals to! I had one just before I got my RX-8. The day I went in and got it there was a man in there also buying his that had to be at least 50 yrs old. There are a few guys on Evolutionm.net that are over 60 years old and quite a few who transplanted themselves from BMWs and Audis. The cars appeals go way deeper than the big wing.

rabinabo

12-14-2003, 11:12 AM

I used to hang out a lot at evolutionm.net, so I know that there are a few older, more experieced enthusiasts there. Although compared to the following here, it's definitely a younger crowd over at evolutionm. In fact, if you just compare posts on both forums, there are more people here that post in complete sentences with correct spelling and grammar. I've seen way more posts at evolutionm that I simply cannot even decipher and would need a degree from ebonics u. to comprehend :)

SDFLY

12-14-2003, 05:28 PM

"They share alot more then the shell.Interior of an evo looks like my 01 taurus company car.Mazda coulda made a fast shit box but they didnt thank god.I for one would rather mod up a nicer car to get the speed i want.Im not knocking evo or sti's to each his own i coulda bought either of them.Only other car that i think can compare to a rx-8 is a g35c which i almost bought,but the 8's styling won in the end.Msrp to msrp ill take the 4500 difference and get about 40 more hp with mods and get the best of both worlds"

Could not have been stated any clearer....I too see the coupe and the 8 as the only two in their class for what they provide and chose the 8 becasue it did not look like any other car and the money saved will translate directly into hp down the road...

One other thing, what is up with other type car owners hanging here?? Someone explain please....

Ike

12-14-2003, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by SDFLY
"They share alot more then the shell.Interior of an evo looks like my 01 taurus company car.Mazda coulda made a fast shit box but they didnt thank god.I for one would rather mod up a nicer car to get the speed i want.Im not knocking evo or sti's to each his own i coulda bought either of them.Only other car that i think can compare to a rx-8 is a g35c which i almost bought,but the 8's styling won in the end.Msrp to msrp ill take the 4500 difference and get about 40 more hp with mods and get the best of both worlds"

Could not have been stated any clearer....I too see the coupe and the 8 as the only two in their class for what they provide and chose the 8 becasue it did not look like any other car and the money saved will translate directly into hp down the road...

One other thing, what is up with other type car owners hanging here?? Someone explain please....

It's pretty common on all car forums, also the amount of bashing you guys do on other cars attracts attention from other forums. I'll be sure to keep telling myself the 8 is in a class by itself as I show RX-8 drivers my ugly, ordinary, econo box tailights :p

tommy12g

12-14-2003, 05:53 PM

Good for you WRX kid, enjoy your car, we will definately enjoy ours

Ike

12-14-2003, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by tommy12g
Good for you WRX kid, enjoy your car, we will definately enjoy ours

Thanks little boy I will!

RX8-TX

12-14-2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by tommy12g
Good for you WRX kid, enjoy your car, we will definately enjoy ours

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Thanks little boy I will!

KIDS! to the corner, RIGHT NOW!:p
And if you keep ranting, no supper for you!

tommy12g

12-14-2003, 07:48 PM

LIttle boy??? Stick to Selling wine, cause at math your not too good at!!

tommy12g

12-14-2003, 07:53 PM

For a guy with a WRX, you sure spend alot of time on the RX8 Forum with over 1100 posts, I guess living in Milwaukee there is nothing else to do!!!! I understand!!! Don't worry I'm not mad at you, if I lived there I would either be on the internet or drink wine till oblivion!!! and i guess you do both!!

revhappy

12-14-2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by tommy12g
For a guy with a WRX, you sure spend alot of time on the RX8 Forum with over 1100 posts, I guess living in Milwaukee there is nothing else to do!!!! I understand!!! Don't worry I'm not mad at you, if I lived there I would either be on the internet or drink wine till oblivion!!! and i guess you do both!!

Some of us "other car people" waited for the RX8 early on in its development (look who started the topic "The Mazda RX8" in November 2001) and then bought another car because its not a top performing sporty car in the $30K price range.

tommy12g

12-14-2003, 08:20 PM

Granted the EVO is faster than the RX8, but thats it? its a cheap looking car with none of the extras that the RX8 has end of discussion...

revhappy

12-14-2003, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by tommy12g
Granted the EVO is faster than the RX8, but thats it? its a cheap looking car with none of the extras that the RX8 has end of discussion...

Extras? These are supposed to be sports/sporty cars? Maybe, you should have got an Escalade and enjoyed all the pimping features! :eek:

Ike

12-14-2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by tommy12g
LIttle boy??? Stick to Selling wine, cause at math your not too good at!!

your not too good at the english son

Hornet

12-14-2003, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by SDFLY
"They share alot more then the shell.Interior of an evo looks like my 01 taurus company car.Mazda coulda made a fast shit box but they didnt thank god.I for one would rather mod up a nicer car to get the speed i want.Im not knocking evo or sti's to each his own i coulda bought either of them.Only other car that i think can compare to a rx-8 is a g35c which i almost bought,but the 8's styling won in the end.Msrp to msrp ill take the 4500 difference and get about 40 more hp with mods and get the best of both worlds"

Could not have been stated any clearer....I too see the coupe and the 8 as the only two in their class for what they provide and chose the 8 becasue it did not look like any other car and the money saved will translate directly into hp down the road...

One other thing, what is up with other type car owners hanging here?? Someone explain please....

Me personally, I am no longer an owner of other cars. I am an RX-8 owner so I've been scanning these forums to find out about aftermarket parts and other information concerning the 8. My defense of the other car(s) comes from me knowing about it from having one for 7 months. So that is why I am here.

Hornet

12-14-2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by tommy12g
Granted the EVO is faster than the RX8, but thats it? its a cheap looking car with none of the extras that the RX8 has end of discussion...

In all reality the RX-8 handles very good but the Evo handles better too.

RX8-TX

12-15-2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by revhappy
Extras? These are supposed to be sports/sporty cars? Maybe, you should have got an Escalade and enjoyed all the pimping features! :eek:

Ehhhhhhh......different people have different needs. Remember that Rev..

toykilla

12-15-2003, 10:40 AM

cars that are close are definitely won off the line.. unless the cars are rediculous unmatched .. like when my friend spanks me with his 400rwhp lsi .. lol

KTM-316

12-16-2003, 10:28 PM

The only car I might have bias against is those darn Mustangs (although I might find myself being strangely drawn to a Cobra every now and then).

I was planning on buying the up coming 2005 Mustang but couldn't wait any longer so I got the RX8. Although, only if Ford changes the interior of the production Mustang to a more classy looking like the RX8. I won't be hesitant to trade in my RX8.

Just want to say that I've beating an S2000. I guess it all depends on the driver. Next race... a WRX

WTF no turbo

12-17-2003, 05:57 AM

Sti will own ya.

KTM-316

12-17-2003, 06:47 AM

Sti will own ya.

I'm not talking bout STI. Just a trim line WRX... I'm not stupid to lock horns with STIs and EVOs. I accept this RX8 will get eaten by them.

R8N8SIS

12-17-2003, 08:14 AM

me an my best friend just had a race in his '03 s2000 , the s starts to pull from the 8 when it hit vtec. we race fom 5-120mph and he got me by almost one car length. later we exchange cars, and the results are the same. conclusion: the s is a slightly faster car than our 8. i had 6120 mi on the 8, he had 7800 mi on his s. cant wait to install cz ecu adaptor in my 8, i m sure this time when he hit vtec, the 8 wil be pulling.

Intrigue 8

12-17-2003, 04:34 PM

n e of yall herd of the rs version of the evo coming out? no wing and black door handles, but same engine and price sticker to go at 28,000. but going back to the original topic i would have to go with the s2000 if it were stock to stock.

revhappy

12-17-2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Intrigue 8
n e of yall herd of the rs version of the evo coming out? no wing and black door handles, but same engine and price sticker to go at 28,000. but going back to the original topic i would have to go with the s2000 if it were stock to stock.

It will be ~$27,000 or cheaper I think. It will also come with a Front LSD and will be about 100 or so pounds lighter.

gam

12-17-2003, 09:44 PM

I, JUST WANTED TO ADD MY 2 CENTS TO THIS TOPIC OF THE COMPARING OF THE CARS. I OWN A RX8 AND I HAVE RAN IT AGAINST THE EVO ON I35 IN KELLIN TX, AFTER WE GOT UP TO 130 MPH I WAS ABOUT TWO CARS AHEAD AND ONCE I HIT 155 THE EVO WAS STILL TRYING TO PASS ME BUT COULD NOT, SO I WOULD SAY THAT THE RX8 ON THE RUN WELL BEAT THE EVO, IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO PUSH IT TO IT'S LIMITS.

THIS IS ONLY TO STATE WHICH CAR TO ME IS FASTER NOT A KILL!

GAMRX804

tommy12g

12-17-2003, 09:50 PM

so evo is faster at acceleration and 1/4 but he RX8 will take it at high speed

revhappy

12-17-2003, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by gam
I, JUST WANTED TO ADD MY 2 CENTS TO THIS TOPIC OF THE COMPARING OF THE CARS. I OWN A RX8 AND I HAVE RAN IT AGAINST THE EVO ON I35 IN KELLIN TX, AFTER WE GOT UP TO 130 MPH I WAS ABOUT TWO CARS AHEAD AND ONCE I HIT 155 THE EVO WAS STILL TRYING TO PASS ME BUT COULD NOT, SO I WOULD SAY THAT THE RX8 ON THE RUN WELL BEAT THE EVO, IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO PUSH IT TO IT'S LIMITS.

THIS IS ONLY TO STATE WHICH CAR TO ME IS FASTER NOT A KILL!

GAMRX804

That wouldn't shock me completely as the EVO is geared for acceleration at lower speeds plus AWD is always a hinderance in high speed races. Of course, I don't condone street racing at 155 MPH! :eek:

Twin 8s!

12-18-2003, 07:30 PM

That wouldn't shock me completely as the EVO is geared for acceleration at lower speeds plus AWD is always a hinderance in high speed races. Of course, I don't condone street racing at 155 MPH!

Please advise.... at what speed do you condone street racing?

Point is you folks continue to compare the stock first year version of RX8 with customixed Imprezza and Lancer vehicles.... You want to compare AWD with RWD, turbo to non-turbo, and more... I am glad you like your vehicles.... I like mine too and I will be very interested comparing a turbo-charged AWD RX8 when the factory builds one.

scientist

12-18-2003, 10:23 PM

i've been lookin at this thread for a while and had to register just for this...

1. someone quoted the S2000 as being a 2.2 litre engine....thats .2 litres too much my friend

2. the evo has the plastic interior etc because it isn't meant to be a luxury car etc(we've established that) but to make the car lighter....who pays attention to those details when driving...not me

3. the evos are not lancers....try taking a lancer yourself and build it to an evo...you may get it to look like an evo...sound like an evo..but not be half the beast and evo is...don't believe me?...see ppl who have tried....

4. the RX8 is a great car...mazda did a good job in makin a comeback into the market...but what category does the car fall under?...the full charges makes it cost about the same as an evo in the 30,000 range....the engine specs etc puts it in the S2000 and RSX etc range. i don't really think mazda will ever release a turbo version of the RX8...just a more powerfull naturally aspirated 8...do u know how difficult it is gettin the rotary engine to meet emission under boost?...thats what killed the RX7 in the first place...mitsu and subaru are the only companies engines that survived through that crisis...all other companies had to call off the turboed vehicles (nissan, toyota, mazda)

5. Comeon...comparing you beating an S2000 on the street doesn't count....there are no standard conditions, no matter how good you say you are neither you or your opponent are not that skilled of drivers to even properly show the power potention of the two cars

6. for the gearing of evos....yeah they have close ratio transmissions...a friend of mine owns an evolution V...if you can follow him on the roads we got hear and keep up with those fast cornering speeds on his stock evo...then waw u got a fast car.... we put it up in stock for m against an FC RX7 running around 15 Pounds of boost...(don't have a RWHP figure) you know what happened?...off the line the were neck and neck...by 3rd gear the evo was 3 car lenghts ahead.....the evo topped out at 157MPH wheas the RX7 was doin 140 with a lot more to go...but the race was over by then

revhappy

12-18-2003, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by Twin 8s!
Please advise.... at what speed do you condone street racing? I don't condone any street racing. It was a joke, lighten up.

Originally posted by Twin 8s!
Point is you folks continue to compare the stock first year version of RX8 with customixed Imprezza and Lancer vehicles.... You want to compare AWD with RWD, turbo to non-turbo, and more... I am glad you like your vehicles.... I like mine too and I will be very interested comparing a turbo-charged AWD RX8 when the factory builds one.

Comparing the US EVO to a base lancer is like comparing 4 species below humans in our evolutionary lineage. Anyway, the US EVO is a lower end EVO from a Global perspective.

US EVO - 271 HP, No Active Yaw Control (AYC) or Active Center Differential (ACD)

Standard EVO - Outside of the US - 280 HP - AYC and ACD

FQ300 - 300 HP, AYC and ACD

FQ330 - 330 HP, AYC and ACD

EVO Extreme ~ 340 HP, AYC and ACD

EVO RS Sprint - ~ 340 HP, NO AYC, Has ACD - Lighter, Stripped Down Racing Model

As for the RX8, its going to be hard pressed for them to release a high-powered turbo model with the fuel economy and emissions the Renesis has in NA terms. Perhaps, if the issues are worked maybe it could happen.

scientist

12-18-2003, 11:13 PM

you've forgotten the RS450s....these baby's put down an amazing 450HP and 400 LBS of tq

AbusiveWombat

12-19-2003, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Twin 8s!
Please advise.... at what speed do you condone street racing?

Point is you folks continue to compare the stock first year version of RX8 with customixed Imprezza and Lancer vehicles.... You want to compare AWD with RWD, turbo to non-turbo, and more... I am glad you like your vehicles.... I like mine too and I will be very interested comparing a turbo-charged AWD RX8 when the factory builds one.

run what ya brung. Both cars are in the same price and similar catagory. I compared the two, so did revhappy. You compared the RX8 to the G35...to each his own. Like it or not, many people are comparing the EVO, STi, G35, 350z, S2000, '03 Cobra, and RX8. Each person has a different idea of what the perfect car is...you may not agree and that's your opinion.

But accept the fact that the EVO is at a higher level of performance than the RX8. I don't think any of the EVO owners, myself included, will argue with you about which car looks better or which has nicer materials inside.

I've never understood why people think that a turbocharged car should not be compared with a N/A car. It seems like this "card" is only played by the loser. Covette, SupraTT, 300ZX TT...so you can only compare the Supra to the 300zx?

Back on topic. the S2000 should win all day long. As mentioned before the S2000 runs low 14's...the RX8 runs low 15's. The difference is about 1 second. So imagine a S2000 traveling at 97 mph past you....you count 1 second and then the RX8 flys by...that's close to 10 car lengths. The acceleration may not seem very different between the two and that's because both have a flat, low torque curve but trust me...the S2000 is much faster.

S2000:
2800 lbs
240 hp
0.086 hp/# (bigger is better)

RX8:
3029 lbs
238 hp
0.078 hp/#

R8N8SIS

12-19-2003, 11:49 AM

the S2000 is NOT much faster ! read my post on top, S2000 is just little faster than the 8. S2000 pull really hard when it hits vtec while the 8 stop pulling due to mazda running it too rich up top to safe the CAT . when cz mods installed in the 8, i m sure the 8 will give the s2000 a tough time.

revhappy

12-19-2003, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by R8N8SIS
the S2000 is NOT much faster ! read my post on top, S2000 is just little faster than the 8. S2000 pull really hard when it hits vtec while the 8 stop pulling due to mazda running it too rich up top to safe the CAT . when cz mods installed in the 8, i m sure the 8 will give the s2000 a tough time.

Stock for stock the RX8 is much closer to an RSX-S (not close to an S2K) than to the S2000 in acceleration.

Brando

12-19-2003, 12:33 PM

The S2000 is faster than the RX-8. It is close enough that it could be a driver's race. Definitely not 10 car lengths as ridiculously stated earlier. I've seen an 8 and an 03' S2000 race at Great Lakes Dragaway and the S won by probably 1 1/2 to 2 car lengths. I believe the S ran 14.3 and the 8 ran 14.9. .......Now for my $.02 on this whole debate. It is absolutely ridiculous because people who are concerned with performance do not leave their cars stock, and when it comes to modified cars all bets are off. Factory performance means nothing. If you want to brag about the fastest factory car for the $, sorry EVO and STI lovers but you shoulda bought a Cobra. But, like I said , factory performance means sh!t. Pick on the RX-8 owners now while there are basically no mods available because from what I've seen close to 100 hp may be attainable with basic bolt-ons. That should be plenty to walk over even Supercharged S-2000's. EVO's and STI's may be another story. ;) The bottom line is that it all comes down to which car you prefer. Any car can be made fast and all of this armchair drag-racing is for b!tches. (I know I'm guilty of it in this post but I was trying to make a point).;)

revhappy

12-19-2003, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Brando
The S2000 is faster than the RX-8. It is close enough that it could be a driver's race. Definitely not 10 car lengths as ridiculously stated earlier. I've seen an 8 and an 03' S2000 race at Great Lakes Dragaway and the S won by probably 1 1/2 to 2 car lengths. I believe the S ran 14.3 and the 8 ran 14.9. .......Now for my $.02 on this whole debate. It is absolutely ridiculous because people who are concerned with performance do not leave their cars stock, and when it comes to modified cars all bets are off. Factory performance means nothing. If you want to brag about the fastest factory car for the $, sorry EVO and STI lovers but you shoulda bought a Cobra. But, like I said , factory performance means sh!t. Pick on the RX-8 owners now while there are basically no mods available because from what I've seen close to 100 hp may be attainable with basic bolt-ons. That should be plenty to walk over even Supercharged S-2000's. EVO's and STI's may be another story. ;) The bottom line is that it all comes down to which car you prefer. Any car can be made fast and all of this armchair drag-racing is for b!tches. (I know I'm guilty of it in this post but I was trying to make a point).;)

The RX8's response to mods is unknown as of yet, but I'm guessing for < $20,000 or so it should be a bit better as the S2K is a notoriously difficult car to mod. Still, the supercharged S2K's are beasts if you are willing to spend the $.

As for why, EVO and STI onwers did not buy a Cobra, we want power, handling, braking and driving dynamics. The Cobra puts more emphasis in the accleration part of that equation - and costs about $5,000 more than the EVO.

Brando

12-19-2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by revhappy
The RX8's response to mods is unknown as of yet, but I'm guessing for < $20,000 or so it should be a bit better as the S2K is a notoriously difficult car to mod. Still, the supercharged S2K's are beasts if you are willing to spend the $.

As for why, EVO and STI onwers did not buy a Cobra, we want power, handling, braking and driving dynamics. The Cobra puts more emphasis in the accleration part of that equation - and costs about $5,000 more than the EVO.

That is my point exactly. Everyone bought there car for different reasons and no one can say that their car is the best at everything. You can make your car the best through mods and that can be done to any car. ...What was the $20,000 quote that you made referring to? Did you mean $20,000 worth of mods or did you put an extra zero on accident?...In response to your comment on the RX-8 unknown response to mods, I submitt the work that Canzoomer has done on the ECU. The factory has it pig-rich and we are looking at over 50hp just by a new ecu program and ditching the cat. That is all for $750 compared to like $4000 for a Turbo or SC setup to make the same power. Once again I'm not trying to say this car is better than others, but just addressing your concern on how it will respond to mods.

revhappy

12-19-2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Brando
That is my point exactly. Everyone bought there car for different reasons and no one can say that their car is the best at everything. You can make your car the best through mods and that can be done to any car. ...What was the $20,000 quote that you made referring to? Did you mean $20,000 worth of mods or did you put an extra zero on accident?

I meant the only significant power mod that I know about is the supercharger kit (Comptech i think) that costs something like $20,000 or so.

Originally posted by Brando
In response to your comment on the RX-8 unknown response to mods, I submitt the work that Canzoomer has done on the ECU. The factory has it pig-rich and we are looking at over 50hp just by a new ecu program and ditching the cat. That is all for $750 compared to like $4000 for a Turbo or SC setup to make the same power. Once again I'm not trying to say this car is better than others, but just addressing your concern on how it will respond to mods.

These are not unusually high numbers and the ECU reflashing and "ditching the cat" (which is illegal, carries $10,000 fine in California and not to mention questionable ethically) are not unique to the RX8. For example, there are several reflashes available for the EVO that are proven, Canzoomer's is yet to be proven reliable by a large audience for a long period of time. Also, the cats may burn out early adding additional cost. As for turbos, you had better be damn skilled to put on a kit and your maximum boost will always be limted by the fact that Rensesis is a NA engine. Considering the Compression Ratio is 10 -1, I'd expect it not to be as simple as you say. Finally, I would not even attempt to turbocharge this engine given the problems its experiencing in stock, NA form.

Brando

12-19-2003, 02:44 PM

(Quote)These are not unusually high numbers and the ECU reflashing and "ditching the cat" (which is illegal, carries $10,000 fine in California and not to mention questionable ethically) are not unique to the RX8. For example, there are several reflashes available for the EVO that are proven, Canzoomer's is yet to be proven reliable by a large audience for a long period of time. Also, the cats may burn out early adding additional cost. As for turbos, you had better be damn skilled to put on a kit and your maximum boost will always be limted by the fact that Rensesis is a NA engine. Considering the Compression Ratio is 10 -1, I'd expect it not to be as simple as you say. Finally, I would not even attempt to turbocharge this engine given the problems its experiencing in stock, NA form. [/B][/QUOTE]

1.Actually these are unusaually high #'s for an N/A car. 2. Ditch the cat or replace it with a high flo/ high temp unit. (You need to get a grip on life if you call removing a cat from your car unethical.) 3. I made no mention of a simple turbo kit for the RX-8. When I quoted the 50 hp figure for an aftermarket turbo I was referring to other cars in comparison to the N/A gains that can be had on the 8. 4. You are right that Canzoomer has yet to be proven but preliminary findings are good so I guess we'll see where it goes from there. 5. This engine is experiencing no more problems then any other model in it's first year. The vast majority of 8 owners(myself included) have had no problems whatsoever.

revhappy

12-19-2003, 03:11 PM

[(Originally posted by Brando
1.Actually these are unusaually high #'s for an N/A car. 2. Ditch the cat or replace it with a high flo/ high temp unit. (You need to get a grip on life if you call removing a cat from your car unethical.) 3. I made no mention of a simple turbo kit for the RX-8. When I quoted the 50 hp figure for an aftermarket turbo I was referring to other cars in comparison to the N/A gains that can be had on the 8. 4. You are right that Canzoomer has yet to be proven but preliminary findings are good so I guess we'll see where it goes from there. 5. This engine is experiencing no more problems then any other model in it's first year. The vast majority of 8 owners(myself included) have had no problems whatsoever.

So, now we are only talking about NA cars? :confused: Anyway, cars like the RSX-S and Celica make huge gains with just bolt ons as well. Yes, I DO beleive removing the cat from your car is unethical as its a complete disregard for everyone else's ability to breath clean air (or contribute to global warming - no more debates on this one, its been done here many times) to gain a few horsepower. IMHO, if you want to remove the cat, you should put a high flow cat and you will retain most of the hp gains from going catless and still have reasonable (though likely slightly increased from what I have seen on the evo boards) emissions.

How do you know that this car will gain a given amount of HP (and still maintain reliability) when it has not been done succesfully repeatedly yet? This engine has had more issues than any of the cars I have seen come out in recent years. Its been discussed numerous times, I call significantly lower power~15% than touted, ~ 28% worse fuel economy than claimed originally, heating issues, air conditioning issues, flooding enigines in ~ 15% of owners - poll a few weeks back, several complete engine failures are pretty significant to me.

SDFLY

12-19-2003, 03:58 PM

Hey Brando, don't waste your time stooping to these trolls level, all they apparently do for a living is surf other car threads where they feel safe, havn't seen too many of their sigs on any of my Vette threads....My god this is insane! K....i.....l.....l

revhappy

12-19-2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by SDFLY
Hey Brando, don't waste your time stooping to these trolls level, all they apparently do for a living is surf other car threads where they feel safe, havn't seen too many of their sigs on any of my Vette threads....My god this is insane! K....i.....l.....l

Wait until, we have a an EVO roadster! :p Don't worry this "troll" has been following the RX8 for longer than 90+% of the members on the forum!

RX8-TX

12-19-2003, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by revhappy
[ .. flooding enigines in ~ 15% of owners - poll a few weeks back, several complete engine failures are pretty significant to me.

revhappy, check this poll out and weight it against your own post:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15032

Although its not aimed to specific problems, it gives you a good perspective of how problems are weighted against the overall package.

Cheers!

rabinabo

12-20-2003, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by revhappy
Wait until, we have a an EVO roadster! :p Don't worry this "troll" has been following the RX8 for longer than 90+% of the members on the forum!

Maybe you should get a life then :P Actually, just to play devil's advocate, how long you've following the RX8 has nothing to do with being a troll. Maybe before the 8 came out you weren't, but in my eye, you're converging on troll status.

AbusiveWombat

12-20-2003, 10:16 AM

I don't see how revhappy is becoming a troll. He's telling it like it is. The Renesis is still a very new engine with it's share of problems. It is still unknown how mod friendly it is, or how mod friendly the drivetrain is.

In my opinion the renesis will always be farely limited. It was designed to be a N/A engine. A 10:1 compression will limit boost and a hot exhaust will limit it further (turbo application). With forced induction, you're asking for problems that plagued the 3rd Gen Rx7. The only way to truely do forced induction would be a rebuild with low compression rotors which is more money than most are willing to spend. Even then you have the questions of whether the drivetrain can handle that power, will the engine overheat, how reliable will it be, can it pass inspection (probably not)...etc.

The best bet is CZ reflash, exhaust, and intake. Those in themselves will yield good gains but after that it will be an uphill climb. But I hope I'm wrong...I'd love to see RX8's running in the 12's for cheap.

revhappy

12-20-2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by RX8-TX
revhappy, check this poll out and weight it against your own post:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15032

Although its not aimed to specific problems, it gives you a good perspective of how problems are weighted against the overall package.

Cheers!

On a car board, people are always going to be more enthusuastic about their car and reluctant to turn on it (and their decision to buy). Specific problems identified are much more telling:

http://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&action=showresults&pollid=294

http://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&action=showresults&pollid=167

Notice that the median and weighted average (assuming the under 17 is 15) MPG are about 18.

revhappy

12-20-2003, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by rabinabo
Maybe you should get a life then :P Actually, just to play devil's advocate, how long you've following the RX8 has nothing to do with being a troll. Maybe before the 8 came out you weren't, but in my eye, you're converging on troll status.

Wow, thanks for the kind words! Actaully, it DOES have a lot to do with it because trolls come over and immediately bash the RX8 with no basis in their assaults. My critique is based over almost three years following its development and release and are based on facts.

Twin 8s!

12-20-2003, 11:18 AM

Ok... lets try this again.

EVO nice
EVO fast
EVO turbo
EVO AWD
EVO built on Lancer chassis... NOT comparing Lancer to EVO... stating EVO is ... an Evolution of the Lancer as name states... can you build it by ordering options... NO... that was a decision made by Mitsubishi marketing department
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: EVO is a street version of a rally car based on Lancer chassis. Mitsubishi did a great job. They saw the need to build a vehicle to compete against the WRX. This a business decision made because Subaru was selling a ton of them based on their racing success.
---------------------------------------------

WRX nice
WRX fast
WRX turbo
WRX AWD
WRX built on Imprezza chassis... NOT comparing Imprezza to WRX... can you build it by ordering options... NO... that was a decision made by Subaru marketing department
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: WRX is a street version of a rally car based on an Imprezza chassis. Subaru did a great job has expanded on the concept with multiple versions.
---------------------------------------------

S2000 nice
S2000 fast
S2000 Two seater
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: S2000 has few real cmpetitors as a N/A high revving RWD two seater ragtop with great handling. Aftermarket players are taking the vehicle to all new levels.
---------------------------------------------

RX-8 nice
RX-8 fast (atleast fast enough for me)
RX-8 N/A (maybe someone like Jackson Racing will come up with a turbo kit)
RX-8 RWD ... Do not know if we would ever see an AWD version unless Mazda goes down the same Rally path as Mitsubishi and Subaru
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line: RX-8 is a great effort by Mazda to bring a rotary vehicle back for US (and other) customers. The shift from a two seater to a unique four passenger design has made it the target for several odd comparisons. I have not seen any magazine publish a head to head comparison of the RX-8 with the vehicles above. They may exist. In each of the comparison/reviews that I have seen they are having the same debate we have had.

Regards aftermarket... I can only hope that we will see cool stuff because it gives us options for personalizing on cars.
---------------------------------------------

As for AbusiveWombat... Merry Christmas...
I've never understood why people think that a turbocharged car should not be compared with a N/A car. It seems like this "card" is only played by the loser.

Interesting... I guess the reason I bring it up is that to compare things you normally try to look for like items and then review the results. For me... I think it is important to work toward a realistic comparison. No one seems to be comparing the S2000 to a Kawasaki Ninja... two wheel, four wheel... huge wieght difference... but hey... whats it matter... How about an Audi S4 to the Subaru Imprezza... FWD to AWD, turbo to N/A but what the heck...

The only real thing the vehicles above have in common is that price range... with the S2000 on the high end I think.

So with regards to turbo and N/A... I guess if the only thing you want to look at are the final performance stats then you can compare them if you wish. I think most of this manuvering is just a way to get a certain vehicle to have an unrealistic advantage...

Hey the one thing I think I can count on is that the RX-8 is the best damn 1.3 liter four passenger sports cars out there... It just kicks butt. :D Of course that is back to the "in a class by itself" thing isn't it.

:D :) :D ;) :cool:

Happy Holidays to all...

Brando

12-20-2003, 12:03 PM

RevHappy, obviously you have nothing better to do than sit around and calculate statistics and bash other people's cars so I'm not going to argue with you any more. Your car must not be that fun to drive otherwise you'd be driving it instead of being glued to your computer. You have 800 some posts here, I can only imagine what you have on the EVO boards. ....I bought my car because I wanted a sexy, sophistcated vehicle that handles great and is a blast to drive. If I wanted a bad-ass rocket at the expense of other things, I'd have kept my old car which mopped the floor with EVO's and most other cars it encountered. I don't need to have the fastest car anymore and I'll be the first to admit that the 8 is not the fastest. I am going to mod it and make it faster but I'll be happy with a 13 sec car. ....As far as my ethics are concerned, you don't know me or anything about me so don't question my ethics. You really need a reality check if you think that cat removal is an ethical dilelmma. I'm not saying that it doesn't throw a pinch more crap into the air, but if you are so concerned you should be driving a Honda Insight or something.

SDFLY

12-20-2003, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Brando
RevHappy (Wombat and Ikeimprezza), obviously you have nothing better to do....You really need a reality check .... if you are so concerned you should be driving a Honda Insight or something.

Word Marlon....

revhappy

12-20-2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Brando
RevHappy, obviously you have nothing better to do than sit around and calculate statistics and bash other people's cars so I'm not going to argue with you any more. Your car must not be that fun to drive otherwise you'd be driving it instead of being glued to your computer. You have 800 some posts here, I can only imagine what you have on the EVO boards. ....

A lot of people "calculate statistics" on this board too, are their cars "not fun to drive"? :confused: Anyway, my EVO is in semi-hibernation for the winter because I have not sprung for all season or winter tires (the stock advans are summer tires and should not be driven in < 40 Degree weather) and salt is all over the roads. I've been on this board as a lurker and member far longer than I have been on evolutionm.net so I have racked up only around 200 posts over there.

Originally posted by Brando
I bought my car because I wanted a sexy, sophistcated vehicle that handles great and is a blast to drive. If I wanted a bad-ass rocket at the expense of other things, I'd have kept my old car which mopped the floor with EVO's and most other cars it encountered. I don't need to have the fastest car anymore and I'll be the first to admit that the 8 is not the fastest. I am going to mod it and make it faster but I'll be happy with a 13 sec car. ....

What car is this? Is it modded? How much did it cost? How is the handling, braking and times on a road course? Has the warranty been voided (or would if you brought it in for a claim)? How is the reliability going to be affected vs. the stock version, if modded?

Originally posted by Brando
As far as my ethics are concerned, you don't know me or anything about me so don't question my ethics. You really need a reality check if you think that cat removal is an ethical dilelmma. I'm not saying that it doesn't throw a pinch more crap into the air, but if you are so concerned you should be driving a Honda Insight or something.

Going catless and having a cat is a huge difference in terms of emissions. To just spew all that crap in other people's face, IS IMHO an ethical problem to gain a few horsepower, when you can just add a high flow cat (on evolutionm.net tests have shown that there is only a 2-3 WHP difference on the EVO between a high flow cat and a test pipe) and at least be somewhat civil to others is just a no brainer. That's a small sacrifice to make compared to a large one (i.e. buy a completely different vehicle).

RX8-TX

12-20-2003, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by revhappy
On a car board, people are always going to be more enthusuastic about their car and reluctant to turn on it (and their decision to buy). Specific problems identified are much more telling:

http://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&action=showresults&pollid=294

http://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&action=showresults&pollid=167

Notice that the median and weighted average (assuming the under 17 is 15) MPG are about 18.

Absolutely true. But, there is also a very well defined line between 'little' problems and a painful costly failure. I believe you must have your own gripes with your Mitsu in some area. Same happens to us, and to any car brand owner. I don't think there is THE perfect car anywhere. I would seriously like a second car...but reality doesn't allow for it (looking for a house right now! YEAH!)

My point is, overall and all faults considered, how high/low do you hold you vehicle. That's what matters. I am personally avg'g 16.3 mpg (it went down from 17 a month ago..), and I haven't flooded my engine. I read about it, even my dealer told me about it when I went for the first oil change. Every car has its quirks, your Evo needs to cool it's turbo oil down, you yourself told me that Ike doesn't need one (geez, I have good memory) and that a turbo timer would be beneficial. You didn't have one back then, but you didn't seem to consider that a 'problem' - its part of what your car is. The same goes (from my perspective) to the flooding issue. Its part of the package we bought FROM the dealer.

[shit, gotta learn to use paragraphs...sorry]

There have been far worse issues: dead or busted engines, Ito with its tranny, and more that we probably haven't heard of. But at the end of the day, when I weight everything, I am still very proud of what I did. Although I won't refrain from telling everyone if I regret it later -I can be a real bitch when complaining.

There is a large number of happy campers, whether it’s an illusion or not...time will tell.

Edit: Almost forgot! I don't condone CATLESS vehicles. Darn, I have to go through a f'ing inspection every year for that. I PAY money for it, just to make sure the darn thing is not crapping the air. If you believe that air pollution is not a problem: you are a big moron (with all my kindness) Go to Mexico City, Santiago (Chile) and watch the sun rise. Or even better, if you get the chance to fly by any of the cities...during the day, look down. And say thanks for the EPA and other orgs. The matter is far beyond ethical values, its a matter of survival and quality of life: what are your kids going to breathe when their turn comes?.

RX8-TX

12-20-2003, 03:13 PM

Uhhhhh....what was this thread's subject?? Politics in Uganda, right?

revhappy

12-20-2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by RX8-TX
Absolutely true. But, there is also a very well defined line between 'little' problems and a painful costly failure. I believe you must have your own gripes with your Mitsu in some area. Same happens to us, and to any car brand owner. I don't think there is THE perfect car anywhere. I would seriously like a second car...but reality doesn't allow for it (looking for a house right now! YEAH!)

My point is, overall and all faults considered, how high/low do you hold you vehicle. That's what matters. I am personally avg'g 16.3 mpg (it went down from 17 a month ago..), and I haven't flooded my engine. I read about it, even my dealer told me about it when I went for the first oil change. Every car has its quirks, your Evo needs to cool it's turbo oil down, you yourself told me that Ike doesn't need one (geez, I have good memory) and that a turbo timer would be beneficial. You didn't have one back then, but you didn't seem to consider that a 'problem' - its part of what your car is. The same goes (from my perspective) to the flooding issue. Its part of the package we bought FROM the dealer.

[shit, gotta learn to use paragraphs...sorry]

Hi R8-TX,
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harshly bashing the RX8 because that's not my intention. I think I was really disappointed that Mazda made it more of a G35/3 Series competitor as opposed to a Z/S2K/EVO/STI competitor and the existence all these issues with the car. I love high reving cars with just a bit of practicality so I really wanted this car to be perfect. Still, I hope that the car (or a certain trim of it) will eventually evolve into something like I was originally hoping for.

As for the EVO, my personal issues with it are the cheap paint (incredibly prone to rock chips) and the relatively wide turning circle. Still, I think they are relatively minor compared to the power, fuel economy issues, etc. You are right it generally requires a cool down (mitsu's turbos are generally better than Subies so I'll live with this procedure! :D ).

Originally posted by RX8-TX
Edit: Almost forgot! I don't condone CATLESS vehicles. Darn, I have to go through a f'ing inspection every year for that. I PAY money for it, just to make sure the darn thing is not crapping the air. If you believe that air pollution is not a problem: you are a big moron (with all my kindness) Go to Mexico City, Santiago (Chile) and watch the sun rise. Or even better, if you get the chance to fly by any of the cities...during the day, look down. And say thanks for the EPA and other orgs. The matter is far beyond ethical values, its a matter of survival and quality of life: what are your kids going to breathe when their turn comes?.

Amen brother!

rabinabo

12-20-2003, 04:24 PM

rev, you need to just accept the fact that the rx8 is just not the next generation rx7. It just seems like your every post concentrates on negative aspects of the 8 (at least in your opinion). Mazda was going for a completely different market, but I think they're going in the right direction by making cars that distinguish themselves from the other car makers. In fact, you should be happy that some of us are buying rx8's because they're financing the future rx7 project :)

Also, I'd like to agree with some of the others. In my view, going catless for regular everyday driving is unethical. I see no problem with going catless for track events, but to drive to the supermarket I just don't need those extra 5-10 hp or whatever it is.

Ike

12-20-2003, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by revhappy
Hi R8-TX,
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harshly bashing the RX8 because that's not my intention. I think I was really disappointed that Mazda made it more of a G35/3 Series competitor as opposed to a Z/S2K/EVO/STI competitor and the existence all these issues with the car. I love high reving cars with just a bit of practicality so I really wanted this car to be perfect. Still, I hope that the car (or a certain trim of it) will eventually evolve into something like I was originally hoping for.

As for the EVO, my personal issues with it are the cheap paint (incredibly prone to rock chips) and the relatively wide turning circle. Still, I think they are relatively minor compared to the power, fuel economy issues, etc. You are right it generally requires a cool down (mitsu's turbos are generally better than Subies so I'll live with this procedure! :D ).

Heh, the WRX uses a MHI (AKA Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) turbo, Subaru either uses FHI or MHI turbos on their cars and many modern turbos no longer require a cool down. The WRX also has a nifty feature that the turbo is water cooled even after the car is off.

"The use of turbo timers to shut the engine off some preset time after the ignition key is removed was needed in the old days. Early turbocharger bearing housings were only cooled by the lubrication oil of a running engine passing by the turbine bearing. If the engine was shut of when the turbine was still very hot excessive heat wick into the turbo bearing and seal area, cooking the oil to black carbon, causing bearing/shaft failure and heavy oil consumption. The newer (for over 15 years now) style turbo housings are water cooled as well as oil cooled. The original EJ20 Subaru turbo motor took advantage of water cooled bearings from the start and have never had this problem due to a unique design feature we will now explain. It is the reason you do not need to purchase a turbo timer.

The Subaru WRX engines have their water catch tank high on the engine above the turbocharger. It is that little can where you check the water level. When the engine is shut off the water continues to circulate via a physical property of water called a thermal siphon. Simply put, hot water rises up to the catch tank, being drawn from the relatively cool cylinder head water jacket up through the turbo housing. This nifty little idea works every time you turn off your engine.

One still needs to take a cool down lap at the track and perhaps should not stop at the top of a mountain pass to enjoy the view if you have been on the boost all the way up, but for the other 99% of the time there is no need to let the engine idle for a minute before shutting off ignition. Even when the engine is off, the cooling water will circulate past the turbine bearing housing."

revhappy

12-20-2003, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Heh, the WRX uses a MHI (AKA Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) turbo, Subaru either uses FHI or MHI turbos on their cars and many modern turbos no longer require a cool down. The WRX also has a nifty feature that the turbo is water cooled even after the car is off.

I wonder why Mitsu (since they know how to do a water cooled turbo) sticks with the traditional oil cooled system? I can see cost being an issue, but is there any other engineering reason to (cooling effectiveness, higher max boost limits, etc)?

SDFLY

12-20-2003, 11:36 PM

Ike

12-21-2003, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by revhappy
I wonder why Mitsu (since they know how to do a water cooled turbo) sticks with the traditional oil cooled system? I can see cost being an issue, but is there any other engineering reason to (cooling effectiveness, higher max boost limits, etc)?

The older/traditional system is for the turbo to only be cooled by the lubricating oil. I believe your turbo in the EVO is oil cooled by oil other than the lubricating oil so the cool down procedure for your EVO isn't as neccessary as it was on old turbos. I'm not exactly sure what the cool down system on the EVO is, but if you find out let me know. The only reason why people tell you to let turbo cars idle and cool down nowadays is because they aren't aware of the changes in turbocharger technology or are speaking of cars with a decent amount of mods.

Ike

12-21-2003, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by SDFLY
Classy comeback! Ike, get a clue......subu turbos 101.....yawn

I'm sorry, here's something a little more your speed...

RX8er: The RX-8 sure looks great!
RX8GOD: Yeah it sure does!
RX8erade: Thank god we didn't buy an ugly econobox!
Fanboi8: Yeah, those other cars may be fast but at least we look good!
8InYoFaCe: Ours cars are fast, just wait til we mod our cars so we can have the advertised HP!
R8edXXX: Yeah, those Z drivers will be sorry then!

Better?

RX8-TX

12-21-2003, 01:24 AM

RX8-TX

12-21-2003, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I'm sorry, here's something a little more your speed...

RX8er: The RX-8 sure looks great!
RX8GOD: Yeah it sure does!
RX8erade: Thank god we didn't buy an ugly econobox!
Fanboi8: Yeah, those other cars may be fast but at least we look good!
8InYoFaCe: Ours cars are fast, just wait til we mod our cars so we can have the advertised HP!
R8edXXX: Yeah, those Z drivers will be sorry then!

Better?

Dude, someone's gonna get pissed @ this!

revhappy

12-21-2003, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The older/traditional system is for the turbo to only be cooled by the lubricating oil. I believe your turbo in the EVO is oil cooled by oil other than the lubricating oil so the cool down procedure for your EVO isn't as neccessary as it was on old turbos. I'm not exactly sure what the cool down system on the EVO is, but if you find out let me know. The only reason why people tell you to let turbo cars idle and cool down nowadays is because they aren't aware of the changes in turbocharger technology or are speaking of cars with a decent amount of mods.

The manual states the following:

"The turbocharger increases engine power by pushing large amounts of air into the engine's cylnders. The finned parts inside the engine's turbocharger turn at extremely high temperatures. They are lubricated by engine oil and cooled by engine oil and coolant."

It also states " Do not stop the engine immediately after operating the car at high speeds and/driving up hills. Allow the engine to to idle for about 60 seconds or more to give the turbocharger a chance to cool down."

Most people just drive at low revs the few minutes of their drives and do a short cool down. This seems to work based on from what I have seen with the automatic turbo timers on other cars.

revhappy

12-21-2003, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by RX8-TX
Hey Rev, you know you don't have to apologize to me!
What I was trying to get through was the concept that no matter what you get, there is always something missing. Or wouldn't you like a little turbo power on the 190 (you know what I am talking about!) ?
Don't worry, you have your opinion, and besides most people don't let you too much of an option on how to reply. I wouldn't like someone calling my car an econobox. I am not trying to be condesceding here, but realistic. We don't like anyone bashing on our investment (yeah, a car's an investment! tell me another joke!) and we shouldn't pick on any other car, no matter what it is. Rev, you made clear that looks are secondary to you, not for me (at least not completely...) That's all. Again, please don't apologize...

RX8-TX,
Don't worry it wasn't an "apology", it was an assertion! :D Still, I think the problems with the car (and the nature of some of the forums posts) have to be examined.

revhappy

12-21-2003, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by revhappy
The manual states the following:

"The turbocharger increases engine power by pushing large amounts of air into the engine's cylnders. The finned parts inside the engine's turbocharger turn at extremely high temperatures. They are lubricated by engine oil and cooled by engine oil and coolant."

It also states " Do not stop the engine immediately after operating the car at high speeds and/driving up hills. Allow the engine to to idle for about 60 seconds or more to give the turbocharger a chance to cool down."

Most people just drive at low revs the few minutes of their drives and do a short cool down. This seems to work based on from what I have seen with the automatic turbo timers on other cars.

Let me clarify this. The engine is oil cooled and water cooled (hence limiting the cool down procedure to some extent).

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34387

Brando

12-21-2003, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by revhappy
What car is this? Is it modded? How much did it cost? How is the handling, braking and times on a road course? Has the warranty been voided (or would if you brought it in for a claim)? How is the reliability going to be affected vs. the stock version, if modded?

My old car was an 11 sec. 2001 Z28. It was modded obviously. Warranty wasn't voided( I got the tranny replaced under it.) I never timed it on a road course but the suspension and brakes were also upgraded so it handled quite well. The best part was at the drag strip I'd take the front sway bar off and you could see daylight under the front tires when I launch.:D

As far as the cat debate goes, a few "enthusiasts "removing their cats isn't going to have any effect. Second of all, the whole vehicle emission issue is all propaganda by the automotive industriy and the oil interests in our country. We could be running around in electric or hyrdrogen powered cars (which I'm sure you would love), but instead they pull they wool over our eyes and try to make it seem like gasoline powered vehicles "don't pollute that much" because there is a ton of money to be lost. Guess what? They Do! This country was practicaly built by oil money and is currently run by oil money so they come out with EPA regulations to try and make it seem like they are cleaning up the air. They aren't, and they won't until we are putting around burning hydrogen. It just makes people "feel" like we're actually doing something about the problem. .....As far as I'm concerned, clean air is an issue but is far from an ethical dilemma as I stated earlier. I deal with life and death in my job on a daily basis and see things that most people couldn't imagine in my job. It really makes you take a different perspective on what is important in life when you step into the "real world" and see how some people live. So once again, don't lecture me on ethics.

Bigcat44

12-21-2003, 12:52 PM

What do you do for work that puts you in daily contact with life and death aside from normal everyday activities

revhappy

12-21-2003, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Brando
My old car was an 11 sec. 2001 Z28. It was modded obviously. Warranty wasn't voided( I got the tranny replaced under it.) I never timed it on a road course but the suspension and brakes were also upgraded so it handled quite well. The best part was at the drag strip I'd take the front sway bar off and you could see daylight under the front tires when I launch.:D

Z28's are extremely modable cars! Still,once you throw mods into the equation, you are talking apples and oranges (unless you consider equal mods or $). However, I won't argue with you that the Z28 isn't a drag monster with mods (even stock it is), but the car's has many other weaknesses that eliminate it for me (stock handling, braking, driving dynamics, reliability, inability to sit four people, etc.) Though, they do excel in SCCA road racing (I can't wait to see the EVO and STI enter).

I think you must have a very understanding dealer as most service departments will deny your claims (i.e. make you go to court to get the claim approved).

Originally posted by Brando
As far as the cat debate goes, a few "enthusiasts "removing their cats isn't going to have any effect. Second of all, the whole vehicle emission issue is all propaganda by the automotive industriy and the oil interests in our country. We could be running around in electric or hyrdrogen powered cars (which I'm sure you would love), but instead they pull they wool over our eyes and try to make it seem like gasoline powered vehicles "don't pollute that much" because there is a ton of money to be lost. Guess what? They Do! This country was practicaly built by oil money and is currently run by oil money so they come out with EPA regulations to try and make it seem like they are cleaning up the air. They aren't, and they won't until we are putting around burning hydrogen. It just makes people "feel" like we're actually doing something about the problem. .....As far as I'm concerned, clean air is an issue but is far from an ethical dilemma as I stated earlier. I deal with life and death in my job on a daily basis and see things that most people couldn't imagine in my job. It really makes you take a different perspective on what is important in life when you step into the "real world" and see how some people live. So once again, don't lecture me on ethics.

Well, what about the person with asthma that sits behind you as you idle unfiltered crap in their face? I have a few friends that are asthmatic that are VERY sensitive to things like that. If it is so harmless, then why do catless vehicles smell like the most awful rotten egg when they are running? I know people who had catless vehicles and they could hardly breathe and their eyes teared like a loved on had just passed away. I have had a similar experience driving behind an old junker with a burnt out cat or just some modded catless vehicle.

It is unethical because it is 1) Illegal 2) Its a complete disregard for others to gain 2-3 WHP. That IS selfish and if everyone acted as you did, we'd be living in Mexico City like conditions. You may deal with life and death everyday, but that does not excuse you from obeying the law.

Brando

12-22-2003, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by Bigcat44
What do you do for work that puts you in daily contact with life and death aside from normal everyday activities

I'm a PO-PO in the inner city of Milwaukee. :D...........
Revhappy, once again I'm not going to debate you anymore. I addressed most of the points you are trying to make in my previous post. The point is gasoline buring cars are very dirty. Going catless makes a minimal difference. My whole point was it is not an issue of ethics. As I stated in one of my first posts I will probably get a high flow cat. The reason though is not because it is the moral or ethical thing to do, it simply because it is not legal to do otherwise.......As far as the Z28 goes, some of the things you stated were reasons why I traded it in. The reliability was not a problem but it just felt like a boat and had too many sqeaks and rattles. Plus it just wasn't that fun to drive. It was fun to make most anyone that raced me my b!tch, but it just wasn't a pleasure to drive like the 8. That is why I bought it. Like I said earlier, if I was worried about being the fastest I would have kept that car, but I'd rather just enjoy driving. That's not to say at all that you don't enjoy your car, but it just seemed like this whole thread and argument was based on "who's the fastest".
.......Btw, you know you are BS'ng about tearing up etc. behind a cat-less vehicle. I get your point so you don't have to exaggerate that much. An improperly tuned car with a cat will burn a lot dirtier than a properly tuned one without. Also that sulpher(rotten egg) smell can only be produced by vehicles WITH cats.

revhappy

12-22-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Brando

Revhappy, once again I'm not going to debate you anymore.

Then why does your post go beyond this point? :confused:

Originally posted by Brando
I addressed most of the points you are trying to make in my previous post. The point is gasoline buring cars are very dirty. Going catless makes a minimal difference.

This is ridiculous! Many of the improvements made in cleaner vehicles are due to catylitic converters. If they made a minimal difference, why was leaded gasoline (the preferred fuel at the time) phased out? Again, I have been in and around catless cars and they stink - and yes some do smell like rotten eggs. Obviously, the degree of improvement (in emissions terms) depends on the effectiveness of the cat, but most properly functioning ones do better the cleanliness of vehicles as that is their sole function (well. also..they have to let exhaust pass through :) )

Originally posted by Brando
My whole point was it is not an issue of ethics. Yes, but WHY? I have stated that it IS because of it being selfish and imposing crap on people for a measly 2-3 WHP.
Originally posted by Brando
As I stated in one of my first posts I will probably get a high flow cat. The reason though is not because it is the moral or ethical thing to do, it simply because it is not legal to do otherwise........
So, if it was legal you wouldn't mind that the asthmatic kid that walked behind your car could barely breath for the next day or so? My point is that it just seems so many people are in the "Me First!" mode and never bother (or care) to assess the impact their actions on others. These are classic examples why regulations ARE needed because so many people don't call such things "a moral or ethical issue". Of course, many of these people think you a re immoral if pray to a different God, don't pray at all or have certain sexual acts.

Originally posted by Brando
Btw, you know you are BS'ng about tearing up etc. behind a cat-less vehicle. I get your point so you don't have to exaggerate that much. An improperly tuned car with a cat will burn a lot dirtier than a properly tuned one without. Also that sulpher(rotten egg) smell can only be produced by vehicles WITH cats.

No, I am not. In fact go on evolutionm.net and you'll see a bunch of people racing to put high flow cats on their cars because of this and the stench.

Brando

12-22-2003, 12:47 PM

I've already addressed most of your so-called points and some of your statements are blatant lies and you know it. I'm done. Btw, you are right, I totally have a "me first" mentality that is why I go to work everyday and risk my life for thankless morons like you. Get a life. Now I'm done.

revhappy

12-22-2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Brando
I've already addressed most of your so-called points and some of your statements are blatant lies and you know it. I'm done. Btw, you are right, I totally have a "me first" mentality that is why I go to work everyday and risk my life for thankless morons like you. Get a life. Now I'm done.

You have not addressed those points and you still insist that that there is virtually no difference (in emissions terms) between a vehicle with a cat and the same car without one. Before, you accuse a person of being "thankless" it would be wise for you to actually know the person. I'm not going to give you a pass because of your job.

Elara

12-24-2003, 09:43 AM

guys, stop it, or the thread is closed. This is going nowhere.

megauo

12-24-2003, 06:43 PM

Hi Yanks,

about the air pollution and catless..

1. The US produces one third of the total air pollution on earth
2. The US constantly refuses to sign and conclude international treaties regulating emisions (freons, CO, NOx)

So a bit of running catless won't add too much :(((

Elara

12-24-2003, 06:49 PM

megauo, you're not helping the conversation with that.

amartin

12-24-2003, 08:03 PM

Hi everyone... I just bought an RX-8 TODAY... A friend of mine who is starting his job at Mazda helped me out with a hell'a good deal, etc..

Basically, I wanted to get rid of my Piece of shvt Ford SportTrac truck that was falling apart at 24,000 miles (a 2001).

Anyway, I've also owned a '00 S2000, sold it for a '02 S2000-- which I still own (Silver, 11k miles).

I drove a fully loaded RX-8, but ended up buying a SP1 package (no leather, but traction control, etc... just not the GP+Nav stuff)... in blue, though I liked the titanium better-- I felt it would have been like buying a hardtop for my S2K since they would be almoost the same color.

Well, anyway, on the test drive, I "drove" the fully loaded one like I'd normally drive... (I autocross, and generally run R Compound Yoko A032R's on the S2K)... I know--I know, its not good to red-line a fairly new car, but the one I test-drove had some milage on it.. Anyway, yes.. I railed through some gears.

Here's what I found:

Off the line, the RX8 "FEELS" like it has more power/torque than the S2K, as I didn't need to left-foot-clutch-drop it from 7.2k rps to get it to really get up and go...

Once its moving however, the S2K is MOST definately stronger/harder pulling.. there's no comparison-- I'm looking into the ECU mod to gain 20-25 HP and am hoping that'll help bring the RX-8 inline with the S2K as fasr as power goes.. though the S2K is nearly 400lbs lighter. (2800 vs 3200 aprox).

One thing I did notice, and was really ... unhappy about, though it didn't stop me from buying the car (after all this is my 'beater' now, instead of my truck...) [Yaya.. its not a beater, but its my only non-covertable car]... When I launched the RX8 I noticed REALLLLLY BAD wheel hop from the rear-end with the traction-control off... My s2k doesn't do that, and it seems pretty annoying/bad.. and I certainly don't wanna run the traction-control all the time, what fun is that??

Sorry to drag on like this..just kinda excited :-) Both are very cool cars, but they really aren't in the same category...

Rotarian_SC

01-16-2004, 09:22 PM

Well 1st of all u will have 2 add some stuff 2 ur car to eliminate wheel hop, and u should b launching it from around 6 or so rpms and don't do a clutch drop, feather it for a little to reduce spin/hop then let out the rest, see the drag forum for more.

Second the Rx-8 is a 13sec (Canzoomer got 13.8) car w/ the Canzoomer stage 1 $500 ECU mod, and i basically view the rx8 w/ Cz ECU as a 4 seater s2000. I believe it really weighs about 3k lbs and is much less peaky then the s2000.

Finally about the pollution, i saw something interesting at an auto show, i believe it was Tokoyo, where they had a Rx-8 that could run on Hydrogen or gasoline. You could change w/ the flip of a switch. The rotary has shown promise for Hydrogen gas engines, piston enginges can't combuse H2 cause the intake and combustion happen in the same place so the H2 which combusts at a lower temperature combusts too soon because of the heat around the intake port, but as u know this is not the case w/ the rotary. It would b ironic if the rotary becomes the solution to H2 motors, because of past emissions and fuel economy.

I think the Rx-8 competes against the 330 and G35, and in my opinion is better than either, yet it is a bit of a sports car in its own right. On the top gear test track it pulled the same time as a Z and an M3. I think the s2k, evo, sti, etc killing will b left 2 the new rx-7-possibly tri-rotor or 2 rotor 1.5L.

And for all u evo owners, here are some suggestions u might like for an Evo 9, u could remove all dashboard materials, radio and speakers, and a/c and replace all seats with bolted down inflateable seats to save weight, and mayb upgrade the turbo w/ the money they save. I am not bashing the Evo, i admit that if i wanted a car that could just go fast stock and didn't care about nething else except price, the evo would b my 1st choice w/ a mustang cobra shortly behind it.

neit_jnf

01-16-2004, 09:30 PM

Some time ago someone in the forum weighted their Sport Package RX-8 at roughly 2950 lbs

zerobanger

01-16-2004, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Rotarian_SC
Second the Rx-8 is a 13sec (Canzoomer got 13.8) car w/ the Canzoomer stage 1 $500 ECU mod, and i basically view the rx8 w/ Cz ECU as a 4 seater s2000. I believe it really weighs about 3k lbs and is much less peaky then the s2000.
.

Ok, i'm all for the 13 second Rx-8, but he did that 13.8 on a G-tech, please dont spread mis-information. while the results look promising, its not real 1/4 mile times.

second, correct the rx-8 weighs around 3000 lbs fully loaded GT package (all options).

last, to the other guy who owns the s2000 and rx-8, the reason the rx-8 feels like it has more low end torque, is because it does. torque peaks at 5500 vs 7500 for the s2000. 90 pct of the torque on the rx8 is available by 3000 RPM and lastly, the 4.44 gears in the rx8 vs the 4.11's in the angry salamander are why the rx7 "feels " like it has more torque. It does.

The s2000 has a better power to weight in stock form, but short of a turbo/sc the s2000 engine gets very little improvment. I bet the farm the renesis will respond better to mods.

Lawerence

01-20-2004, 08:12 PM

I agree with most of what you said.

And you are dead right with the gtech 1/4 mile time (tho it is a good INDICATION of what you will run).

But there are plenty of s2ks that have 240+whp with minor boltons (i/h/e).

Also the new S2K with the 2.2L engine is consistantly dynoing 10-12 more HP (sometimes 15-20 more) than the old F20C.

(i still perfer the F20)

keath

01-21-2004, 04:23 PM

******Moderator Edit******** Cya

R8N8SIS

01-22-2004, 01:43 PM

an extra 40+ whp with just I/E/H? are u sure? which manufacturer?

my friend only manage to squeezed an extra 25 whp in his s2k with I/E/H . a total of 227 whp.

Ike

01-22-2004, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by R8N8SIS
an extra 40+ whp with just I/E/H? are u sure? which manufacturer?

my friend only manage to squeezed an extra 25 whp in his s2k with I/E/H . a total of 227 whp.

That's more like it, and maybe on the higher side of what people usually get. The S2K is a great car but they don't take well to mods as others have pointed out.

racerdave

01-22-2004, 07:30 PM

Basically, when there is no boost involved and the car is tuned to its streetable limits -- S2000 -- there isn't much to be gained. Honda really did it's homework with the S2k.

Dollar per HP, S2k mods have to be about the priciest out there...

amartin

01-30-2004, 05:07 PM

Well, the only HP mods that actually work on the S2K are FI. Everything else reduces power, or isn't measurable.
(Some people claim 2-3hp from CAI or exhaust, but I personally think thats just variances in the dyno run/heat soak/etc...)

Average cost for FI is ~$4k + VAFC (fuel management) + Tuning ($??)... I believe your out the door for about $6k, of course. The RWHP goes from an average of ~198-204RWHP to ~285-330 (depending on Turbo/SC/intercooled, and PSI/Pully size).

I suspect going FI on the RX-8 is going to be similar in cost, but I'd love to see a $1500 setup...doubtful however.

-- Aaron

Xlorn

01-30-2004, 06:09 PM

A good friend of mine has a 2000 s2k, we spent last weekend polishing and waxing our cars, comparing them and taking turns driving each others rides.

Ideal setup we agreed we be to have one of each in the garage. :) They really are different cars for different days.

What impresses me about the 8 is that I think it will give an s2000 a good run for it's money in an autocross. The initial grunt of the 8 being noticeably stronger (5-20 Mph) (though something may have to be done with the wheel hop issue first) and helping to compensate for it's size and weight. The 8 has flat out amazing handling for its size (you truly don't notice it's size as much when your plowing through corners.)

I can't imagine having *as* much fun in autocrossing as I had with my miata or I would in a s2000 (these cars act the part, look the part and play it well). But it's fun knowing the 8 can go to town with the best of em on an autocross course, and offer a level of sophistication that is not present in the miata or s2k (I use the word sophistication, your adjectives may vary).:: The whole package of the 8 really works well.

But ideally I'd love to have an s2k in my garage with the 8 (well honestly a turbo miata is my fantasy ;P )

RX8Z

02-01-2004, 11:16 AM

Back to the main topic, i dont know what some of you guys are smoking but since I work at the dealership, and since Ive drove every damn car including the Rx8 (which i own..) and the S2k ..

I dont see how its comparable

The s2k by far has more power and will beat the rx8. If you bought the rx8 for speed, then you must be reading too far into the brochure..

Everyone knows the Rx8 is meant for the enjoyment of driving, and the stability is provides compared to other high hp/torque cars..

Though I have to say the s2k is a great fun kick ass car to drive, personally I dont like it cuz its too small and it feels like ure stuck inside.

But hey, you dont have to agree with me.. come on down and I'll let you drive them both to see for yourself

Zamen

www.openroadhonda.com

racerdave

02-01-2004, 11:29 AM

Good call and review, Xlorn. :)

Raygun

02-01-2004, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by megauo
Hi Yanks,

about the air pollution and catless..

1. The US produces one third of the total air pollution on earth
2. The US constantly refuses to sign and conclude international treaties regulating emisions (freons, CO, NOx)

So a bit of running catless won't add too much :(((

I've been lurking quite a bit but I thought I'd comment because I don't want my fellow countryman to beleive they are the cause of the worlds ills.

The above statement is untrue. The U.S. isn't foolish enough to sign a treaty that exempts 3rd world nations that are most polluting in the world. In other words they want the U.S. to be so restrictive to its own industries while at the same time they get to be exempt because they don't have the technology or the means to clean their environment. That means while those other countries that sign the "Kyoto" treaty can get away with not abiding by standards the U.S. will not. Talk about unfair.

Why on earth would the U.S. sign something that is economically harmfull while at the same time doing nothing to make these other nations clean anything. As far as polluting some of the other nations wish they had it so good.

As to the original topic. When you are talking about 1/4 mile times between the two its very close. The biggest factor is driver error and weight. On paper they are very close. If you want your RX-8 to comptete well with the S2000 in a straight line do everything you can to drop weight. You may want to find a way to lower the gear ratio also. Remove the rear seats, buy lighter parts et cetera.

I really like the RX-8 :cool:

Broker73

02-02-2004, 12:35 AM

bar far has more power??? what year are you talking about. The s2k has almost identical 5-60 times as the 8?
it might have a bit of an edge, but I have driven a 2000-2002 and they don't start to move until the v-tec kicks in.
I know they improved the 2004 with lower the rpm's where the max torque kicks in, but still, the difference in power is not that huge.

racerdave

02-02-2004, 07:10 AM

I think, perfect launch to perfect launch, the S2k is 0.5 better than the 8 to 60 and the 1/4, at least comparing Car and Driver numbers on the 2 cars.

Street start is 6.9 for S2k, 7.5 for the 8.

RX8Z

02-02-2004, 07:54 AM

Broker,

You are welcomed to come down here and launch the S2k and Rx8, assuming you have insurance

Our GM , John Hansen is a professional driver and great friends with Al Unser Jr. He drives every damn car we ever get in our lot.

He also agrees with what I pointed out. We also have a ex-professional S2k race driver, this guy drifts the s2k between our lots daily for fun. Both these guys have test driven for C/D/ RT/T, automobile.. Either way, dont take my word.. take theres..

Perhaps the words, "by far" is a bit exxagerated but lets not forget the notion that the S2k is faster than the Rx8. There is no debate in that, unless you have numbers to prove otherwise which i know you dont.

Again, dont take personal offense but lets be real here, the Rx8 is the lowest in the class with torque, displacement and hp. What are we arguing at ?

This thread is S2k vs Rx8, the s2k will beat the rx8 given fair factors, same driver, same weather conditions, same slicks, same track etc...

Like Ive stated many times to my customers, you dont buy the Rx8 for speed, you buy it for the handling and the smoothness is provides. The rx8 is a kick ass fun driving car, not a rocket launcher..

Of course, this is my opinion .. though I dont think its slow, but compared to a Z and so forth, there is no denying straightline, the rotary is not up to par..

Z

amartin

02-02-2004, 02:28 PM

Arguing that the S2K doesn't really perform until you hit VTEC is kinda silly... we launch at ~6.5-7.2k, were in VTEC, from the launch. We let the wheels slip (not the clutch, its basically a left-footed clutch drop) and stay in VTEC for the entire run. There really isn't any "ramping" up into VTEC.

I'd assume you do something similar (albiet at a lower RPM since max torque is achieved sooner on the RX-8) in the RX-8. However, wheel hop is going to be a major problem.

FWIW-- the S2K has ZERO wheel hop. They will spin (of course), but there is no bouncy-bounce. You tend to torque out to the side a little but it straightens up pretty quick.

-- Aaron
p.s. Who bought either car to race in a striaght line anyway?? If I wanted to do that I would have bought a used Vette.

JimW

02-03-2004, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by RX8Z
Broker,

You are welcomed to come down here and launch the S2k and Rx8, assuming you have insurance

Our GM , John Hansen is a professional driver and great friends with Al Unser Jr. He drives every damn car we ever get in our lot.

He also agrees with what I pointed out. We also have a ex-professional S2k race driver, this guy drifts the s2k between our lots daily for fun. Both these guys have test driven for C/D/ RT/T, automobile.. Either way, dont take my word.. take theres..

Perhaps the words, "by far" is a bit exxagerated but lets not forget the notion that the S2k is faster than the Rx8. There is no debate in that, unless you have numbers to prove otherwise which i know you dont.

Again, dont take personal offense but lets be real here, the Rx8 is the lowest in the class with torque, displacement and hp. What are we arguing at ?

This thread is S2k vs Rx8, the s2k will beat the rx8 given fair factors, same driver, same weather conditions, same slicks, same track etc...

Like Ive stated many times to my customers, you dont buy the Rx8 for speed, you buy it for the handling and the smoothness is provides. The rx8 is a kick ass fun driving car, not a rocket launcher..

Of course, this is my opinion .. though I dont think its slow, but compared to a Z and so forth, there is no denying straightline, the rotary is not up to par..
Great point! and you dont get 4 doors and seating for 4 with the S2k and 350Z. A lot of S2k owners that want more room like the 8 because of the similarities. you are correct weight is the only difference between the 2 and you get to have just as much fun, besides for straight line performance you can always add more power!
Z

RX8Z

02-04-2004, 08:31 AM

Out of topic, I just test driven a 2004 NSX..

i have to say, I was close to stealing it from my company..

Great car, try it if you ever get the chance.

rtryrktrx7

02-04-2004, 12:09 PM

I have a new found respect for the RX-8. I thought it would have lossed pretty bad the other night. My friend raced an RX-8, and a 350Z down the highway. The traffic was very minimal, and they lined up and took off from about 60. From 60 to 120 they were very even. The 350Z was ahead of my friend by about three feet (literally it's front tire was about at my friend front bumper), and my friend was ahead of the RX-8 by about 5 feet. (RX-8 front wheel at about my friends back tire) They stayed almost side by side most the way. It was a cool little race. BTW I failed to mention what my friend drived until the end because I'm sure you all will say it's a lie, but he drives a new Accord coupe 6spd, and his S2000 that he traded in for the accord was faster...stock.
I think the RX-8 (like said before) isn't a dragster. It's a fun car that handles really well. I'd definitely pick it over a 350Z any day. Quite possibly over the S2K. Enjoy your cars, I wish I had one.

RX8-TX

02-04-2004, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by rtryrktrx7
I'm sure you all will say it's a lie, but he drives a new Accord coupe 6spd, and his S2000 that he traded in for the accord was faster...stock.

Nothing surprising, Accords hold a really big punch...not to be underestimated. Oh, BTW...this might fit the 'street racing' description....um...:confused:

rtryrktrx7

02-04-2004, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by RX8-TX
Nothing surprising, Accords hold a really big punch...not to be underestimated. Oh, BTW...this might fit the 'street racing' description....um...:confused:

I know...I was reading where they compared the new TL to the Accord, and they had a 5hp difference between them. Apparently it's getting a little unrated right now on the HP number. I didn't mean to sound pessimistic. It's just after being on car forums for so long, if you not praising the car that's built around the forum your always wrong. But I stand corrected.

RX82004

02-06-2004, 12:04 AM

http://www.s2kca.com/photopost/data/510/16BM_Video.wmv

Interesting video. As you can see, once the cars get to the straight the S2k leaves the RX8 pretty easily. The poor 8 actually gets thrashed pretty badly around the road course in that video, just to fowarn you. Not really a pretty sight :(

amartin

02-13-2004, 08:56 PM

Ouch..that was almost evil..

S2000 #1, RX-8 5th place (I'm surprised it didn't come in last)... talk about a dog around the corners... I can't believe the miata didn't do better-- I suspect because that was a wide / higher-speed course... in the auto crosses I goto, Miatas do quite well.

It does go to show how well the S2K actually handles a road-course... Even the Integra out handled the RX-8. Sad indeed.

Its worth mentioning all those vehicles are 13.7-15.5 second cars (well.. except the miata, which might have been in the 16-17.5 second range).

... What funny, is that it wasn't just the S2K leaving the RX-8 behind...but EVERY car but the miata... they were laughing and waving at him as they went by.

The video is definately worth watching.

(I can laugh at this, I own both the RX-8 and S2K, so why not!). I didn't buy the rx-8 to auto-cross.. Today was snowing/raining/sleeting... which car do you think I drove?

Hehe..my 4-door sport-sedan of course!! Plus it has lots of airbags, and tractiong control thingies..and dynamic stabilitiy widigity widgets... I feel safe :-)... slow, but safe!

(Okay..its not THAT slow.. it don't compare it to the S2K....phaalease.) Stop with the "On paper it looks like" >CRAP<.

On paper I had a lot of money in world-com stock... in reality, I'm fookin' pissed!

RX8-TX

02-14-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by amartin
Stop with the "On paper it looks like" >CRAP<.

On paper I had a lot of money in world-com stock... in reality, I'm fookin' pissed!

Please, please let me quote you on my sig!! :D :D :D :D

amartin

02-14-2004, 01:15 PM

lol..be my guest

Xlorn

02-14-2004, 01:51 PM

Here's another video (sorry if this one's been posted before). Here the A spec rx8 wins against the s2k. Anyone know what goes into an "A-spec" rx8?? Is it the mazdaspeed version?

Revenge battle (http://www.interfacedesigns.com/rx8aspec.wmv)

RX8-TX

02-14-2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Xlorn
Here's another video (sorry if this one's been posted before). Here the A spec rx8 wins against the s2k. Anyone know what goes into an "A-spec" rx8?? Is it the mazdaspeed version?

Revenge battle (http://www.interfacedesigns.com/rx8aspec.wmv)

I found something, but I am too lazy to make sense out of it:

Extracted from: http://car.nifty.com/as/column/car_3/article_0306024742_4.htm - Translated using http://babelfish.altavista.com/

The new concept where it loads the only rotary engine in the world, of 4 door sports was put out, tuning only of Matsuda speed was administered to, RX-8 "" "RX-8 A-spec".

As for the styling, the design which individual the chief designer of RX-8 supervised. RX-8 is the sport car which proposes the value whose "New 4door Sports for 4Adults" is new.

Cooling efficiency, CD (aerodynamic drag) with CL (lift) balance it improves well, "the front nose (12 ten thousand 9000 Yen)" it expands the air intake, guaranteeing the derived airflow to cooling type. Zero lifts (lift zero) it actualizes with the chin spoiler form which projects on left and right. "The side skirt (9 ten thousand Yen)" the body side the fact that the air which flows flows into to the underside is prevented, the function which holds down the lift change the rear is borne. "The GT type spoiler (11 ten thousand 1000 Yen)" of the angular adjustment mechanism attaching, "the rear under spoiler (9 ten thousand Yen)" of the form which sucks out the undersides style air with the multiplier effect the negative lift (down fourth) occurs on the rear. In the high-speed limits this down fourth, probably is to convey engine power to the road surface securely. Zero lifts the front and the negative lift the rear are the efficiency which is actualized for the first time with these 4 point sets, whichever becomes insufficient and may come to the point of lacking balance.

As attenuation power was strengthened "the shock absorber - (6 ten thousand 4000 Yen)" with, approximately - to 20mm ƒ[ƒ_ƒEƒ“ converts height, raised spring rate "sport spring set (3 ten thousand 4000 Yen)" to be compatible the handiness on the general road and the handling efficiency where the flat impression in the high-speed territory is high, also the behavior such as straddling impression and nose-dive and ƒXƒNƒAƒbƒg which when accelerating and decelerating have the stickiness was securely held down. Together, in order to raise body rigidity, "the strut bar (front 4 ten thousand 4000 Yen rear 1 ten thousand 5000 Yen)" the front and the rear with reinforces the body underside "the performance bar (6 ten thousand Yen)" and so on, ƒ`�c - it probably becomes ideal in total to install the chassis part which ƒjƒ“ƒO is done simultaneously.

Forging 1 piece structure being lightweight, 18 inch ~8.0jj of high synthesis + 40 "aluminum wheel MS-01S (26 ten thousand 4000 Yen/4 these sets)" tread enlargement of one side 10mm and total 20mm and reduction of unsprung weight are assured with the offset.

ƒ`�c[ƒ“ of A-spec which is administered to RX-8 which has sufficiently high efficiency before the exterior exciting forum rides from, can add the expectation. Also the exhaust sound which ƒ³ of the dual tail pipe 76.3 "the sport sound muffler (all stainless steel 8 ten thousand 2000 Yen)" the rotary engine it plays and dries being light, low smoothly from revolution turning to high revolution, feeling was good.

In addition, it has the function which the engine condition oneself is diagnosed, "the sport meter link system (price undecided)", additional meter of oil pressure, oil temperature and water temperature is set.

As for one for ƒAƒeƒ“ƒU "touring kit A- specifications", ƒXƒ|[ƒeƒB it is the tuning item which assures the further potential rise of ƒAƒeƒ“ƒU where it can give high drivability with loading the aluminum make serial 4 cylinder engines < of the styling and new development MZR >. Being dynamic was developed up-to-date aerodynamic theory by the wind tunnel experiment which occurs repeatedly compared to it makes the good quality of the response of the aero package and the new model MZR engine be prominent which raise sport mind, the muffler which actualizes the sport sound whose being cut off is good and securely the chassis part etc. which furthermore specializes the impression of being quality of the underside of ƒAƒeƒ“ƒU are set. The new generation sport package, the styling of ƒAƒeƒ“ƒU character of running furthermore is upgraded these "touring kits A - by installing the specifications".

Was verified "the front bumper face kit (ƒtƒHƒOƒ‰ƒ“ƒvƒxƒ[ƒ‹ equipped 9 ten thousand 5000 Yen)" as for design improvement of cooling efficiency is assured with wind tunnel experiment it improves aerodynamic efficiency not only, by the enlargement of the air intake. "The side skirt (5 ten thousand 6000 Yen)" the body side the air current which flows is rectified, the effect which low is shown to the design which is the sense of security has. Furthermore, the standard ria it was installed jauntily under Ra "the rear additional spoiler (carbon make 4 ten thousand Yen)", to rectify the wind which the ria jauntily passes by Ra lower part, decrease of lift and drag is assured.

ƒ³ Of the dual tail pipe 76.3 "the sport sound muffler (9 ten thousand 8000 Yen)", good quality of the response of the new model MZR engine is made to emphasize.

As attenuation it was converted "the shock absorber - (7 ten thousand 6000 Yen)", approximately - to 20mm ƒ[ƒ_ƒEƒ“ it converts height strongly, raised spring rate "progressive spring set (3 ten thousand 7000 Yen)", low attenuation power when inputting which it has an influence on riding comfort that way, being cut off to be good has become the steering wheel response which has the sense of security. Connects the strut section left and right rigidly "the front strut bar (2 ten thousand 9000 Yen)" with rise to be assured body frontal rigidity, direct it can feel steering wheel feeling.

As the sense of relief at the time of sport driving can be given, comfort and ƒLƒrƒLƒr which do not impair riding comfort it was finished in the car with respect to 1 class which is compatible the travelling efficiency which can enjoy also the running which is done in the higher-order origin.

Xlorn

02-14-2004, 02:42 PM

Here's what I've gathered on the mazdaspeed version so far (mostly from march issue of R/T).

-Lighter flywheel
- intake and exhasut modification
-fatter anti-roll bars
-firmer tub shocks (drops the rx8 about 3/4 inch)
-strut tower braces front/rear
-crossmember braces beneath the car
-10bhp boost in horsepower
-improvements in midrange torque

Rumors in the magazine of a hydraulic turbo version down the road and a hydrogen version by early 2007 (hybrid, flip a switch for hydrogen or back to gas guzzling mode).

"The life cycle of the RX-8 is a long one so we want to gradually enhance the car" Shiro Yoshioka, product chief

Sounds like fun stuff on the horizon :)

Overport

02-18-2004, 10:25 AM

it would be damn close, but i would have to go with s2000.

the rx8 isn't meant for drag racing. good question though.:)

Overport

02-18-2004, 10:26 AM

Sounds like fun stuff on the horizon :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Not for us tuner guys:)

Overport

02-18-2004, 10:27 AM

im talking about the hydrogen version

KooK

02-23-2004, 02:52 PM

Take it from somebody who has both... :)

The S2000 is faster, hands down. I would say the only thing the 8 has on the S2k would be the launch but with the IRS setup the way it is, you get stupid wheel hop. If they would fix that then the 8 would launch stock for stock (The S2000 Pressure Plate is very weak and not able to launch at peak horsepower without spinning the clutch) But then again with a better pressure plate the S2000 would have a much better launch then the 8 ever could.

So in short, The S2000 is faster, I'll have 1/4 and 1/8th mile results when the tracks open back up.

But as far as feel goes, the 00-03 S2000s are alot more of a sports car feel and I have no doubt in my mind, although I bet the numbers are close, on the Skidpad the S2k would hold up better also. The RX8 is more of a smooth daily driver car.

Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm saying this from first hand experiance.

http://volks-tech.com/pics/mws/dca6.jpg

Twin 8s!

02-23-2004, 08:25 PM

Thanks for the data...

What I do not understand, is why people want to compare a two seater and a four seater....

Both have there place... as I have said in the past, the best comparison for the RX-8 is most likely the BMW 325.

KooK

02-23-2004, 08:45 PM

Honistly, I'd put the RX8 in a class of its own... Its just such an out there unique car. Until we get some good hard stats on the thing I wouldn't even bother to try to compare it.

Twin 8s!

02-23-2004, 08:52 PM

Agreed....

By the way, while the engine is put in a class to compete with the 2.5 to 3.0 liter entries... I just trounces the BMW 325, 330, and comes in dead tied t the M3 according to the BBC Top Gear site.

Brits are really funny when they compare the 8 with the 350Z...

VividRacing.com

02-25-2004, 10:10 PM

K. Gotta add my own experience in here. I'm not much into the drag scene though it's still hella cool. I'm into the road racing. Usually there's one or two out at the track as well and I gotta be completely honest. The two are pretty evenly matched as far as handling goes mainly because the Honda wieghs less. Also, you have to figure that the driver has a lot to do with it on a road course but I've passed those same few in the straights and out braked them into the corner. It's not a quick pass mind you. The longer gears and higher redline make it happen. By the time the S2000 hits neer the end of its torque curve it's time to shift while my RPMs are still rising through the peak of the curve.

either way it's too much fun and I don't care who's in front or behind me, I'm still racing. And the S2000 guys as well as most other drivers usually ask for a ride around the track once they've seen me closing in on them through a turn from the rearview mirror. In short the S2000 and RX8 make for a pretty good battle on the course.

IZIXRX8

03-25-2004, 09:48 PM

THE RX8 WOULD EAT THE S2K ALIVE ON A CURV COURSE ALL DAY LONG. AND THATS THE BEST THING ABOUT THE 8

Ike

03-26-2004, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by IZIXRX8
THE RX8 WOULD EAT THE S2K ALIVE ON A CURV COURSE ALL DAY LONG. AND THATS THE BEST THING ABOUT THE 8

Someone has been hanging out with Smoke_weed a little too much...

syntrix

03-27-2004, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Someone has been hanging out with Smoke_weed a little too much...

Hmmm, I just got back from the track, and WOW, there was an S2000 there on slicks.

I wasn't on slicks, or anything close to slicks, and it's a very twisty and technical track.

I don't smoke weed, so you can fill in the rest.

Dustin4u

03-27-2004, 09:44 PM

I can't belive people are trying to compare the 2.

The S2K is a real sports car.

The RX-8 is a sports-SEDAN.
The RX-8 has 190 HP and is more of a girls car. My girlfriend loves hers.

ps. all the looks you get...its from people looking at a new car they have never seen...not going "wow".

350Z > girl car

syntrix

03-27-2004, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by Dustin4u
I can't belive people are trying to compare the 2.

The S2K is a real sports car.

The RX-8 has 190 HP and is more of a girls car. My girlfriend loves hers.

Wow, that's a great post! You have any additional information to add?

Such as, your GF possibly drives an automatic?

How is the S2000 a real sports car? You mean a real sports daily driver enthusiast car? Maybe you need to define "sports car"?

Glad your GF loves hers, it's definately not the version that I drive (btw, look up the manual gearbox engine spec, lol)

syntrix

03-27-2004, 09:51 PM

I see you edited your post:

Originally posted by Dustin4u
I can't belive people are trying to compare the 2.

The S2K is a real sports car.

The RX-8 is a sports-SEDAN.
The RX-8 has 190 HP and is more of a girls car. My girlfriend loves hers.

ps. all the looks you get...its from people looking at a new car they have never seen...not going "wow".

350Z > girl car

I still don't get what you are trying to say? Looks? Who cares, save it for the clubs. I'd go on and on about girls checking out the 8, but that's way off topic!

Can you define... in your words... sports-SEDAN. What does that mean to you?

Dustin4u

03-28-2004, 10:05 AM

Actually she drives a manual.

Are you telling me, you have the only RX-8 pushing out 238 HP?
Last time i checked, Mazda lied to all of there customers and your lucky if your getting 190.

My girlfriends car is a leman. They also lied about the gas mileage. Wish she would demand to get her money back. But there's no other girlie cars she likes. Ultimately, its her car.

Again you can't compare the 2 cars. Thats just stupid. Please compare this car to a RSX..not a freaking S2K rofl.

The Rx-8 is a sporty family sedan. Not a sports car.

A sports car with less then 200HP? I don't think so. Its a girl car, just like a Miata and a Z3 BMW.
Its perfect for my girlfriend and she enjoys it.

When i drive it, i hide my head as a joke as i go by my neighbours...they all laugh because they get the joke.

Yes all the looks are people going "neat, i;ve never seen one of those".
NOT " wow awesome car".

Your friends and family telling you "oh my god, what a awesome car" there being nice. Its a girlie Saturn wannabe.

I realize you won't agree because your a old man, and you own a girl car and don't want to admit it.
There's nothing wrong with owning ,a girlie sport family sedan with less then 200 HP if you enjoy it. Thats all that couts in the long run.

I'm not going to win a arguement on a RX-8 board and i'm well aware of that. Most people here own one....every 3rd post in the general forum is about "how do i fix this and that", mind you but hey.

Go to a sports car forum like my350z.com and type in rx-8. You will see real results.

Elara

03-28-2004, 10:58 AM

Dustin, what exactly is your problem? Are you just here to be a jerk or what? You've proven you hate the car (just read EVERY LAST ONE of your posts) so do you have nothing better to do than post about it on here? The reason there isn't any kind of crap like that when you search "350Z" on here is because we don't tolerate that kind of crap. We try to make sure everyone posts without flinging insults at each other, and when it DOES happen, posts get closed pretty damn quick. What, exactly, are you trying to prove?

Astor

03-28-2004, 11:22 AM

I'm sure you've read all the 350Z letters to Nissan.

It's unfortunate many people don't know how to get the most out of the rotary, I have no problem going 70 and dropping to 3rd gear, I have no problem keeping S2000's and 350's at bay.

Looks like you need to grow up anyway Dustin and move out of your Mom's house.

Hornet

03-29-2004, 10:05 PM

I don't know about the RX-8 being "girlie" but I do know what girls do! Girls do things like go to forums and shoot off their mouth about how much better their stuff is than someone elses. Men don't go around trying to prove they have the bigger "johnson". There is nothing for the RX-8 to prove. Pretty much all of the top magazines (whether you respect their opinion or not) do the proving for the RX-8 when compared to the likes of the 350Z and the S2K. So to individuals who don't like the RX-8 if you don't like the car leave it at that. Please do not come in here insulting the owners of this car!

syntrix

03-29-2004, 10:13 PM

Yeah Dustin, you quote one number hp wise for the auto, then say it's a manual. I don't get it. The manual does not have the HP you quoted, LOL.

You are obviously here to troll. Get the facts straight or be gone. Enough said.

FWIW, I was thinking different car, even got a trade in for $26.5 for my sport MSRP $28. After the track day and things loosening up a little bit, I'm keeping it!!!!!

I drove my boss's new Porsche Cabby today, thinking it would impress me..... I think I'll keep the 8 at this point!

th1rd3y3

03-30-2004, 11:55 AM

wow what is with some 350 owners......i've been checking the my350z.com forums lately and it definitely seems that they either bitch about their own cars or tend to make fun of other's cars

04ls1vette

03-30-2004, 12:16 PM

I'd have to actually say that the people on this site make fun of more cars than any other sites around. He's stating an opinion just like you all do about other cars being crap. Seems to me like every car but an 8 is crap or not good enough. There are some big times problems here. You all should come down to earth and stop fooling around. YOu are low 15 second cars to high 14 second cars that don't get good gas mileage. Plus there seems to be a good amount of problems with the reliability of the 8's i hear too from many dealers. B4 you make fun of Chevy's, nissans, etc, take a long hard look at what you got.

Hornet

03-30-2004, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by th1rd3y3
wow what is with some 350 owners......i've been checking the my350z.com forums lately and it definitely seems that they either bitch about their own cars or tend to make fun of other's cars

I hate to say it but the RX-8 is talked about negatively in more than just the 350 forum. I went to a BMW forum at one point (don't ask me to find that forum again) and a few of those guys were bad mouthing the car (and I'm talking about 325 owners not M3). Some people really do seem to equate their car to their manhood and it's sad if you ask me.

RX8-TX

03-30-2004, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by 04ls1vette
B4 you make fun of Chevy's, nissans, etc, take a long hard look at what you got.

I've got what I've always wanted...well, not fully but close. And as I've been saying for a long time...I don't think we come off at cars necessarily, but @ the comments from owners of various makes/models. That's all...people piss me off, not a car I don't own. Hope that's clear enough.

Hornet

03-31-2004, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by 04ls1vette
I'd have to actually say that the people on this site make fun of more cars than any other sites around. He's stating an opinion just like you all do about other cars being crap. Seems to me like every car but an 8 is crap or not good enough. There are some big times problems here. You all should come down to earth and stop fooling around. YOu are low 15 second cars to high 14 second cars that don't get good gas mileage. Plus there seems to be a good amount of problems with the reliability of the 8's i hear too from many dealers. B4 you make fun of Chevy's, nissans, etc, take a long hard look at what you got.

Okay, I've seen SOME people here knocking other cars just like there are SOME at other sites knocking other cars. As far as this site being the worst, it's probably not any different than a lot of the other sites. The cars I see talked about negatively here most are probably the WRX, STI, and Evo (and I defend those cars every now and then).

As for the cars performance, we all realize the car is not the fastest but if you look at what others have to say about it you would think RX-8s are in the league of Toyota Corollas in the 1/4 mile. The car is not slow, it's just slower than some of the other performance based cars that were introduced in the past couple of years.

Now for your claim of lack of reliability. Please elaborate! I haven't heard of a whole boat load of breakdowns or anything like that. I also cannot claim that I have suffered any reliability issues with my RX-8 (that is with a little over 7000miles on it).

But other than your thoughts about the individuals in this forum what do you think of the cars?

syntrix

03-31-2004, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Hornet

But other than the individuals in this forum what do you think of the cars?

You want people that don't hit this forum, to answer a question you posted in the forum?

How is that possible?

Nice one with the Corrolla comment ;)

Remember the topic here, "RX8 vs S2000". Keep it on track!!

Hornet

03-31-2004, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by syntrix
You want people that don't hit this forum, to answer a question you posted in the forum?

How is that possible?

Nice one with the Corrolla comment ;)

Remember the topic here, "RX8 vs S2000". Keep it on track!!

Sorry, I should have worded that better. I wanted to know what 04ls1vette's thoughts were about the cars in question instead of his thoughts about the members of this forum.

I personally like what the S2000 offers but I'm just not too keen on 2 seaters these days.

BTW, I'll try to stay on topic if possible..... :)

Broker73

03-31-2004, 12:48 PM

this thread is funny. as far as performance, I have had more than a few run ins with my friends G35C, and we were neck and neck from 40-80mph.
Look at the recent test from Motorweek I think?? Had the latest 350Z RX8 comparison. The 8 won, but was .6 secs slower in the 1/4. So the car does hang in there with the more powerful cars. Most of these morons that post negative things about the 8 have spent little or no time in the car.

04ls1vette

03-31-2004, 01:39 PM

My opinion is i really don't like or dislike the Rx-8. I think it's overpriced for what it is and that for the times it runs Mazda should be able to achieve better gas mileage. Not a bad looking car in all.

The fact is that people from other sites are coming here and lookign at this crap about there cars that people like THE BAller and others are saying. It just isn't true and other sites are not as bad as this. Go to a GM site and we hardly have anything negative to say about other cars besides the Ford rivarly which is in good fun. People from other sites are going on about it. Really needs to stop. If you don't have anything good to say then don't. Thats why so many people come on here talking crap.

lourx8

03-31-2004, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by 04ls1vette
YOu are low 15 second cars to high 14 second cars that don't get good gas mileage. Plus there seems to be a good amount of problems with the reliability of the 8's i hear too from many dealers. B4 you make fun of Chevy's, nissans, etc, take a long hard look at what you got.

What is your point on the quarter mile speed comment? What are the reliability problems you've heard from many dealers?

syntrix

03-31-2004, 03:05 PM

This thread is done.

Read the first post:

In a straight quarter mile drag race what car would win? Both fully stock.

And here's the title:

RX 8 vs. S2000 ???

AltecLansing

04-02-2004, 03:47 AM

actually it's really hard to compare RX8 with other cars; its simply unique. u can compare an EVO with STi, S2000 with 350Z. but RX8?? geez, will u compare a Ford pick up with RX8 just becox of the doors?

i love all of these cars (except the ford), and i prefer RX8 becox of the uniqueness. Rotary engine + 4 doors + 4 seat + nice interior design (which STi, 350z etc lacks of)+ nice handling + unique outlook + sedan/4 door coupe insurance = RX8.

ERicInCal

04-05-2004, 02:21 PM

As a past S2000 owner, I can honestly say that the S2000 is a quicker car. I also want to inform some of the RX8 people here that there are some differences in the S2000s you might not be aware of. The older s2000 (2000-2001) are known in the community to put down about 10hp less than the 02 and 03-04 versions. so if you are making comparisons, make sure to note the years. The older ones will have plastic windows.

I just sold my 2003 S2000 3 days ago, and I decided to get an RX8. I should have it in 2 weeks. I will miss the wail of the 9000 rpm engine, but in the end I know I will enjoy the RX8 even more. Why? Becuase I want a car that does "everything". The RX8 is that car. Its not the fastest car out there, but it has good straight line performance, has a great interior, is an amazing value, and has good looks. One of the big reasons I am choosing it over the S2000 is becuase it has has seating for 4 (my dog can go with me now in the back seat!) it has tons more elbow and shoulder room than the s2000, its a lot quieter than the S2000 (almost 5000rpm at 85 miles per hour on the freeway is very TIRING), Traction Control , side air bags, a good stereo and I can recline my seat a lot more.

If I had to describe it to someone, I would say it was like my NSX, Quiet , comfortable, and spacious, great handling, etc. But has room in the back for 2 others! Like I said before, its not the FASTEST out there, but I know Im not going to be racing this car, and if I have to give up 1-1.5 seconds in the quarter mile to have the ability to carry 2 more people. I think thats a pretty good compromise.

murix

04-05-2004, 02:33 PM

I am suprised this thread is still going!

The funny part to me is I could care less about a drag race between a S2000 and RX8. It definitely falls out of the realm of both cars in my book and I know of a lot better cars to go play with for drag racing. In a drag race, they would both lose easy to a SRT-4 which costs $20k and makes a lot more hp. So what?

Broker73

04-05-2004, 02:48 PM

to the comment on the guy who says its overpriced??

you just showed who little you know about cars. The 8 is incredibly priced relative to other performance or touring cars. Has good performance and styling, and great handling. The G35 is 5k+ more, so is the 350Z. I use to own a BMW a few years ago that was more expensive, and was slower (325i).

I guess that is why is has won awards, and most comparisons when put up against other cars eh???

:o

Man some people have no idea?

RX8-TX

04-05-2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Broker73
to the comment on the guy who says its overpriced??

you just showed who little you know about cars. The 8 is incredibly priced relative to other performance or touring cars. Has good performance and styling, and great handling. The G35 is 5k+ more, so is the 350Z. I use to own a BMW a few years ago that was more expensive, and was slower (325i).

I guess that is why is has won awards, and most comparisons when put up against other cars eh???

:o

Man some people have no idea?

Broker, I don't know where you live. But around here the RX8 is priced very close to the 350Z. If you equip both with similar options, they come up very very close.

And the G35 Coupe is not that far...equally equiped that is.

04ls1vette

04-05-2004, 03:01 PM

Broker: Can you post up links to awards the Rx-8 has won? Haven 't seen any and i'm curious. Thanks

RX8-TX

04-05-2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by 04ls1vette
Broker: Can you post up links to awards the Rx-8 has won? Haven 't seen any and i'm curious. Thanks

I can help:

1. RX8s powerplant award:
http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/ieoty.html

Boudicea

04-05-2004, 05:34 PM

Here are a few I found...(hey look, my fiurst post!)

http://www.carpages.co.uk/mazda/mazda_rx8_wins_top_gear_best_coupe_20_03_04.asp?sw itched=on&echo=995689275

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/bestcars/?cnn=yes

http://www.auto-stop.net/index2.php?section=essais

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/news/blankstory.asp?ID=5650

http://www.whatcar.com/News_SpecialReport.asp?NA_ID=206444&EL_ID=3052520

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/031210-3.htm

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/031120-3.htm

And these aren't counting stuff like the R&T 10 Best, etc.

downshift

04-05-2004, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Boudicea
Here are a few I found...(hey look, my fiurst post!)

http://www.carpages.co.uk/mazda/mazda_rx8_wins_top_gear_best_coupe_20_03_04.asp?sw itched=on&echo=995689275

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/bestcars/?cnn=yes

http://www.auto-stop.net/index2.php?section=essais

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/news/blankstory.asp?ID=5650

http://www.whatcar.com/News_SpecialReport.asp?NA_ID=206444&EL_ID=3052520

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/031210-3.htm

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/031120-3.htm

And these aren't counting stuff like the R&T 10 Best, etc.

Lol, great first post! Good find too. Oh, and guess which car came in second on CNN/Money's Best Sports Car of 2004?

Skyline Maniac

04-06-2004, 01:47 AM

The RX-8 is incredibly priced, if you know how to bargain with the dealership. You can get a 6MT RX-8 for under $24k easy - the cheapest you can find a 6MT G35C is at least $5k more.

tschangrx7

04-06-2004, 11:13 AM

How can you currently get the RX-8 for under $24K? The invoice is $25,200 with no options. That brings it up to $25,500 with $300 dealer profit. I would also get the Sport Package for the Xenon lights and stability control which would bring the price up to $26,500 now that no discounts are being offered. Maybe the price will go down to $24K after discounting but not now.

Boudicea

04-06-2004, 01:22 PM

I saw a bare bones auto for $22,500 the other day. Granted it was an auto, but it was under $25,000.

jdmlover79

04-09-2004, 08:34 AM

s2k>g35 coupe 6spd > rx-8 > or = rsx type-s> civic si 1/4 miles only

come on guys be honest!

rx-8 is no NO NO NO match with s2k
do you wanna talk about handling?
s2k will blow rx-8 on the road track
I DO NOT HAVE S2K

rx-8 is close to rsx type-r (not type-s) on handling!
i can't believe some peeps saying rx-8 is fast or better handling than s2k

omg! i know you guys love rx-8 but come on being a little honest about your car or rx-8

do not say if that and this on rx-8 or something
i am camparing two cars as stock and given a equal driver!

stop dreaming! it is time to wake up guys!

edit: when i shop for g35 coupe and rx-8

the cheapest deal i got offered for rx-8 (full option 6 spd) was $28000

the cheapest deal i found for g35 coupe 6spd (only with 1-piece aero package and premium package) was $34000
if you wanna compare full option g35 coupe 6spd the best deal i got was $39820

it was 4 differebt dealer for each cars!
at ventura county ! south california!

RX8Bliss

04-09-2004, 11:50 AM

uhh.... i've ran against quite a few s2ks, in club sponsored and private(*ahem*) events.... as well as with various members of certain clubs on various gettogethers... the s2k will not BLOW the 8 away *rolleyes*. on the quarter mile, stock for stock, the 8 will hang with a s2k just fine. it probably wont win, but it wont be too far behind. now, if both were modded? considering how hard it is to mod the 8 right now? the s2k will win, by a big margin, but then again s2k mods are fairly expensive but effective. while the 8 mods are fairly expensive and generally not effective :P
I know some one will object with the canzoomer mod, but thats just one. i dont buy the claims the intakes/exhaust manufactureres claim anyway, i think they just sound nicer.
some s2k owners are arrogant pricks who'll frown upon the rx8 when we pull up next/behind them, thank GOD that most s2k owners are nice car enthusiasts. if these jackasses drove anything else other than the s2k, (350z, evo, sti, hell even an fiero:P) they'd still claim that the 8(as well as all other cars) sucks compared to theirs; just ignore the little punks, they're losers anyway.
when running canyons and such, the 8 can hang pretty evenly with the s2k, because when running these roads ANY car that is driven by a person well-informed about their vehicle can run fast. any s2k driver who claims they can pass and leave me in their dust with their s2ks in the hills is an idiot who's only experience in running twisty roads is probably with their playstation2. i've ran a few against idiots like these who afterwards will claim some poor excuse "oh i misshifted" "i hit a patch of sand" "huh? were you racing me? i wasn't really trying..."
any real driver knows that whatever car you drive, if you love it, care for it, learn how to really use it to its full potential, you can do wonderful things with it. only snot nosed slack jawed yokels will bash ANY other car, quote 1/4mile numbers like its a holy scripture (or worse yet, quote MAGAZINE times *shivers-magazineracers-shivers*), or say dumb things like "I can blow you away". if you've got a chip on your shoulder, got something to prove, think you're a big man, just stuff a roll of socks down your pants, it'll be much cheaper than buying/modding a car to claim braggin rights. stop trolling autoforums and just be satisfied that we all got cars that suited our best interests. if you're really proud of your car, you'd stfu and appreciate that maybe, JUST MAYBE, we feel the same about ours.

jdmlover79

04-11-2004, 02:12 AM

then i think you are one dam good driver cuz most of japanese mags rite now saying that only few jap cars (nsx, sti, lancer) can hang with or better than s2k handling!

rx-8 vs rsx type-r (integra type-r) with profesional racers
they are close to each other but type-r pulls hard on straight so edge to type-r

in other hand rx-8 vs s2k with profesional racers, it is going to be joke! when mazda made rx-8 they didn't make it for compite with s2k, they made it for compite with type-r, wrx, celica gts, etc

rx-8 is one class bellow s2k for fact!

so plz stop dreaming about beating s2k (stock vs stock)

also there are advantage and disadvantage with fwd
specialy high speed corner!

Hornet

04-11-2004, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by jdmlover79
s2k>g35 coupe 6spd > rx-8 > or = rsx type-s> civic si 1/4 miles only

come on guys be honest!

rx-8 is no NO NO NO match with s2k
do you wanna talk about handling?
s2k will blow rx-8 on the road track
I DO NOT HAVE S2K

rx-8 is close to rsx type-r (not type-s) on handling!
i can't believe some peeps saying rx-8 is fast or better handling than s2k

omg! i know you guys love rx-8 but come on being a little honest about your car or rx-8

do not say if that and this on rx-8 or something
i am camparing two cars as stock and given a equal driver!

stop dreaming! it is time to wake up guys!

edit: when i shop for g35 coupe and rx-8

the cheapest deal i got offered for rx-8 (full option 6 spd) was $28000

the cheapest deal i found for g35 coupe 6spd (only with 1-piece aero package and premium package) was $34000
if you wanna compare full option g35 coupe 6spd the best deal i got was $39820

it was 4 differebt dealer for each cars!
at ventura county ! south california!

$28,000 on a fully optioned RX-8 is a deal. A fully optioned RX-8 is normally going to cost you about $35,000. I also checked out the G35 coupe and they tried to sell me one with 6000 miles on it for $35,000 which btw was the same as what they were selling the new ones for that were equipped the same.

Also out of curiousity, where did you read "the RX-8 is faster and/or better handling than the S2K" in this forum. I think you might be jumping the gun a little. Maybe you've missunderstood posts in which people say the RX-8 can "keep up with the S2K" as "beating the S2K". If you can find someone saying that here please provide a link to where that post is cause I simply don't believe it happened in here, although the question may have been asked or someone might have mentioned running into a lesser experienced S2K driver.

jdmlover79

04-11-2004, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by RX8Bliss
uhh.... i've ran against quite a few s2ks, in club sponsored and private(*ahem*) events.... as well as with various members of certain clubs on various gettogethers... the s2k will not BLOW the 8 away *rolleyes*. on the quarter mile, stock for stock, the 8 will hang with a s2k just fine. it probably wont win, but it wont be too far behind. now, if both were modded? considering how hard it is to mod the 8 right now? the s2k will win, by a big margin, but then again s2k mods are fairly expensive but effective. while the 8 mods are fairly expensive and generally not effective :P
I know some one will object with the canzoomer mod, but thats just one. i dont buy the claims the intakes/exhaust manufactureres claim anyway, i think they just sound nicer.
some s2k owners are arrogant pricks who'll frown upon the rx8 when we pull up next/behind them, thank GOD that most s2k owners are nice car enthusiasts. if these jackasses drove anything else other than the s2k, (350z, evo, sti, hell even an fiero:P) they'd still claim that the 8(as well as all other cars) sucks compared to theirs; just ignore the little punks, they're losers anyway.
when running canyons and such, the 8 can hang pretty evenly with the s2k, because when running these roads ANY car that is driven by a person well-informed about their vehicle can run fast. any s2k driver who claims they can pass and leave me in their dust with their s2ks in the hills is an idiot who's only experience in running twisty roads is probably with their playstation2. i've ran a few against idiots like these who afterwards will claim some poor excuse "oh i misshifted" "i hit a patch of sand" "huh? were you racing me? i wasn't really trying..."
any real driver knows that whatever car you drive, if you love it, care for it, learn how to really use it to its full potential, you can do wonderful things with it. only snot nosed slack jawed yokels will bash ANY other car, quote 1/4mile numbers like its a holy scripture (or worse yet, quote MAGAZINE times *shivers-magazineracers-shivers*), or say dumb things like "I can blow you away". if you've got a chip on your shoulder, got something to prove, think you're a big man, just stuff a roll of socks down your pants, it'll be much cheaper than buying/modding a car to claim braggin rights. stop trolling autoforums and just be satisfied that we all got cars that suited our best interests. if you're really proud of your car, you'd stfu and appreciate that maybe, JUST MAYBE, we feel the same about ours.

how about this threat?
he is try to prove s2k handling is even with rx-8 or rx-8 handling is even better with his experience ( not a smart compare, it is more got to do with driver in this case not a car)

amartin

04-11-2004, 12:25 PM

Jeeesus.. I probably said this on the 4th page of this thread. I own both, the S2K is faster, period. 0-60, 1/4" mile, twistys..whatever. Its faster, but rides like a covered-wagon. They are apples and oranges.

Stop comparing a non-covertible 4-door-sedan to a roadster. They are different kinds of cars with different plusss and minuses. The SCCA puts them in a different classs (the S2K is B-Stock)...so, why should be put them in the same class?

rotary-convert

04-11-2004, 08:00 PM

based on my perceptions i don't belive jdmlover is a very good listener/reader.........don't even bother trying to appease him and others like him........
i love my 8 no matter what is faster, quicker or cheaper

Genom

04-11-2004, 08:28 PM

I'm amazed that such a simple topic on an internet BBS can evoke such wrath between people that probably will never meet.

Hornet

04-12-2004, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by rotary-convert
based on my perceptions i don't belive jdmlover is a very good listener/reader.........don't even bother trying to appease him and others like him........
i love my 8 no matter what is faster, quicker or cheaper

Agreed, cause it seems he didn't even comprehend what I wrote. Especially the part where I said when running against "a lesser S2K driver".

tpryor

04-12-2004, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by jdmlover79
rx-8 is one class bellow s2k for fact!

so plz stop dreaming about beating s2k (stock vs stock)

also there are advantage and disadvantage with fwd
specialy high speed corner!

OK - excepting the FWD comment (that kind of gives it away, doesn't it?).

While I know nothing will change anyones mind, this is the only CONCRETE evidence I have seen to date. Also, before anyone whines about talented drivers, there were three Nationals Trophy winners in the class, including the third place finisher at Nationals in 2003. AND, it was the (unsorted) first National competition for the RX-8, against a group of the most sorted and prepared S2000's in the country. I submit the following from the recent SCCA Solo II National Tour:

Ike

04-12-2004, 10:12 AM

I don't know about that most sorted and well prepared S2Ks in the country... Many of our local events get more S2Ks on a regular old weekend than you had for a nats event, and it's not looking like many people traveled for that event. I've always been really suprised by how few S2Ks you Houston guys having showing up at your events on a week by week basis. You'd expect that in Milwaukee not Houston. And if you go by your logic the Boxster is a step above or at least on par with the S2K and RX-8, and most people will agree that just isn't the case.

However in the hands of a very capable driver the Boxster and the RX-8 certainly can compete. There's no doubt that both cars handle great, and better than anyone would ever even need on the street. But also lets not forget that autox is a quirky thing, and is hardly the end all be all of determining how good of a handler or a track car a certain vehicle is. I'm sure you know as well as I do that I could find many other autox results where the RX-8 finishes dead last or very near last in BS. Of course this has more to do with the driver and it being a new car than anything else.

Is the RX-8 a class below the S2K? (If you go by the SCCA it is for the 2004MY it is :p) No, I think the wording is a little strong there... On a REAL track given equal drivers will the S2K win over and RX-8 almost every time, there's little doubt in my mind, and the same certainly happens at the dragstrip as well. Does that make one better than the other? No, I think it just makes them different.

jdmlover79

04-12-2004, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by tpryor
OK - excepting the FWD comment (that kind of gives it away, doesn't it?).

While I know nothing will change anyones mind, this is the only CONCRETE evidence I have seen to date. Also, before anyone whines about talented drivers, there were three Nationals Trophy winners in the class, including the third place finisher at Nationals in 2003. AND, it was the (unsorted) first National competition for the RX-8, against a group of the most sorted and prepared S2000's in the country. I submit the following from the recent SCCA Solo II National Tour:

that is not a good evidence!
is this pro drivers?
NO!
so it is not even fare to compare them maybe you can compare drivers skill but not a car!
in general if you look at the lap time in best motoring s2k is faster than rx-8 even g35, rsx type-s, wrx were faster.
plz give me better evidence if you have one.
give me a evidence that provide drivers are fare even skilled like best motoring!
thax

tpryor

04-12-2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by jdmlover79
that is not a good evidence!
is this pro drivers?
NO!
so it is not even fare to compare them maybe you can compare drivers skill but not a car!
in general if you look at the lap time in best motoring s2k is faster than rx-8 even g35, rsx type-s, wrx were faster.
plz give me better evidence if you have one.
give me a evidence that provide drivers are fare even skilled like best motoring!
thax

Like I said, I knew it wouldn't convince you, but anyone who comments on the 8 being FWD, doesn't own an S2000, and thinks that the "Best Motoring" drivers are any closer in skill to each other than any other group of drivers, it just shows you are in this to "stir the pot", not to have a factual, intelligent conversation.

My post was based on (and backed up by) facts. Your response was "Not good enough".

When you back up your claims with facts, I will continue. Otherwise, I get enough of the "Uh-Uh" crap from MY kids.........

Enjoy!

ERicInCal

04-12-2004, 11:24 AM

well... I sold my 03 S2000 5 days ago, and I just bought an 04 RX8 yesterday, and I can honestly say that the RX8 is about 95% of the performance of the S2000. I havent really pushed mine that hard yet (waiting for the break in period) but pushing it through the twisties, I can already tell this car is going to be incredible. I would say that very few people could extract that extra 5% out on a public road. Bottom line is the 2 cars are apples and oranges, 4 seater comfortbale sports car vs 2 seater hard edged convertible.

RX8Bliss

04-13-2004, 04:19 PM

jdmlover seems like you wont be satisfied no matter what we show you until we all bow down to your logic.
btw, watching bestmotoring videos, subscribing to caranddriver, and watching fast and furious doesn't make you an expert - it makes you a jackass. and i for one will not take seriously someone who's best 1/4 with an rsx-s was a pathetic 15.0 with i/h/e (bwhahahahaha, my sister runs 14s in her rsx-s with the same mods, and get this: my sister paid for the car/parts herself and does her own labor; i'm guessing your mom bought you your g35 and you probably can't pull off an oil change, what with your spare time being spent watching bm and reading option mags.)
you're a troll. go back to watching your precious videos and try not to venture out into public until you've got something productive to contribute to society. or atleast learn some manners, Ike doesn't like our car much either but at least he says it in palatable ways.
figures the only things to crawl out of simi valley are trailer trash and trolls.

Ike

04-13-2004, 11:19 PM

I like your cars quite a bit, it's just not quite for me. With what I say in the posy I'm just being realistic in my views. I think it's pretty well established that the S2K is faster than the RX-8, and handles just a touch better. That's in no way meant to be an insult, yet some people with RX-8s will take it that way. Just because I think it's slower than other cars does not mean I don't like it. There are things the RX-8 does better than the S2K as well. It just depends on what you're looking for in a car in order to determine which is best for you.

KC_Prelude

04-13-2004, 11:39 PM

I think the 8 makes a better street car due to a softer suspension and of course the back seat. The one thing that actually was useful from that Best Motoring video was when they compared the 8 and S2k in the slalom. The 8 rolls and leans and the S2k stays almost totally flat. I would hate to hit potholes/crappy pavement in that car.

jdmlover79

04-14-2004, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by RX8Bliss
jdmlover seems like you wont be satisfied no matter what we show you until we all bow down to your logic.
btw, watching bestmotoring videos, subscribing to caranddriver, and watching fast and furious doesn't make you an expert - it makes you a jackass. and i for one will not take seriously someone who's best 1/4 with an rsx-s was a pathetic 15.0 with i/h/e (bwhahahahaha, my sister runs 14s in her rsx-s with the same mods, and get this: my sister paid for the car/parts herself and does her own labor; i'm guessing your mom bought you your g35 and you probably can't pull off an oil change, what with your spare time being spent watching bm and reading option mags.)
you're a troll. go back to watching your precious videos and try not to venture out into public until you've got something productive to contribute to society. or atleast learn some manners, Ike doesn't like our car much either but at least he says it in palatable ways.
figures the only things to crawl out of simi valley are trailer trash and trolls.

READ MY THREATS AGAIN!
IT WAS AT LACR! one of shitest track in the nation moron!

also i am sorry i born rich so wat?
is that enough now? mod edit: we do not discriminate because of sexuality, gender, race, or religion on this board.
rite now maybe my parents pay for my university (pre-dental) but i bet i can make more money than you and plus money that our family already has.