Since the other thread seems to be focused mainly on the Stage one kit I thought I'd start a new thread. Any updates as to when it will be ready?

Dont know what to tell ya, lots a views???

I'd like an update too...

What exactly is the difference between stage 1 and stage 2? As far as tuning goes, that is. I know about the no-cats or high flow cats.

Also, if I bought the stage 1 and went to the stage 2 later on...would I have basically thrown my money away on the stage 1? (in other words, are they using the same hardware but with different settings?)

BaronVonBigmeat, Omnicron,sin,brando: Yes you will be able to upgrade to stage 2, see the stage 1 shipping thread for further details.

Just saw it...sweet news!!!!!

Originally posted by BaronVonBigmeat
What exactly is the difference between stage 1 and stage 2? As far as tuning goes, that is. I know about the no-cats or high flow cats.

Also, if I bought the stage 1 and went to the stage 2 later on...would I have basically thrown my money away on the stage 1? (in other words, are they using the same hardware but with different settings?) Stage I mostly modifies the air/fuel maps for the car, keeping them closer to the ideal ratio than the stock ECU does, which fluctuates wildly between too rich and too lean. Stage II does this too, but also modifies the ignition timing to optimize power. Problem is, if you advance the ignition timing to optimize performance, you also increase the exhaust temperatures enough that the stock cat cannot handle it, and will burn out prematurely. A high-temp cat is needed to handle the extra heat, and the higher flow is just an added benefit.

I can't wait!

So a stage 2 is added mods to the ECU and a new CAT that can take it?

Is there any word at all on price or power that it could make?

If not I understand why, those poor fools are workin their tails off...

97 gsr

read this for some info in stage 2:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14823

I got a price list from Canzoomer a couple of days ago and this may answer some of your questions.

$1,000 - CZ-Stage2 Fuel/Air/Ignition controller kit, 40+HP, 6MT only, c/w sparkplug heatsinks
$500 - CZ-MidP1 Exhaust mid-pipe, no cat, no resonator, c/w O2 fooler, high temp epoxy finish
$750 - CZ-MidP2 Exhaust mid-pipe, c/w High Flow cat, no resonator, c/w O2 fooler, high temp epoxy finish
$650 - CZ-MidP3 Exhaust mid-pipe, c/w resonator, O2 fooler, high temp epoxy finish
$900 - CZ-MidP4 Exhaust mid-pipe, c/w High Flow cat, resonator, O2 fooler, high temp epoxy finish

CZ's price list also shows a Stage 3 which appears to be similar to the Stage 2 but adds a multi-map feature. ($1,900.00 US)

I asked Maurice if I could order the Stage 2 and CZ-MidP-4 now and here is his response:

"Coming, but not quite yet. We have a bit more testing and thought to go into these, so probably end of January before we make the final announcement"

Ive been wanting info too.........for a while now

Im not very up to date and don't know a lot about all these aftermarket products, so please excuse my stupidity, since I live in cali I will have to worry about the emission, will the stage 2 or 3 fail the test like stage one does? Thanks

Originally posted by RX8 <3
Im not very up to date and don't know a lot about all these aftermarket products, so please excuse my stupidity, since I live in cali I will have to worry about the emission, will the stage 2 or 3 fail the test like stage one does? Thanks Stage I will likely not fail emissions tests in any state, as it leaves the stock catalytic converter intact. Stages II and III, on the other hand, run the exhaust temps too high for the stock cat to survive... it literally will burn out. So they both require a replacment, high-temp cat, or no cat at all. While it's possible this new cat will let the car pass emissions "sniffers," in CA it's illegal to replace your cat with aftermarket one, so you're pretty much limited to just the Stage I mod.

Hope this helps.

Its a federal law that prohibits you from replacing the stock cat except under limited circumstances.

Unfortunately, aftermarket modding is not one of them. :(

Originally posted by TeKP
Its a federal law that prohibits you from replacing the stock cat except under limited circumstances.

Unfortunately, aftermarket modding is not one of them. :(

Technically it's against EPA regulations to replace any of the exhaust system since the backpressures from stock exhaust contribute to the overall emissions signature of a car. Removing those backpressures with high flow exhaust will change that emission signature and is technically a no-no.

BUT, what they choose to enforce is a totally different story. I believe that it is the same with CHANGING a cat (not removing).

I doubt anyone would legally care that you replaced the cat. I plan on replacing mine when the stage 2 comes out. I just hope the stealership doesn't whine about it.

They prob won't care until something gets screwed-up and then they'll try to void warranty.... :cool:

O.k I decided against Geoff Knights electric supercharger, I just thought It would be to hard to put the car back to stock in case of warranty issues, when the car runs out of warranty then I will look further into his system if it is reliable and affordable. I am thinking of Canzoomers stage 2 mods though, I need to know how easy it will be to return the car to stock in case of warranty issues. is it easy to go back to the stock exhaust and cat or will this be detectable with certain welds and flanges, I like the idea of 55 WHP for the low price and this is more than enough power to make me happy, I just don't want my warranty voided in case there is a problem. I can't tell my wife I need $2000 for a new motor because the warranty is voided for that electric supercharger or ECU and CAT put in it, hell, I'd be cut off for months, I couldn't take it, I outgrew the Vasaline useage!

I run a mid pipe on my rx7 in california, been doing it for like 2 years as EVERYONE else does. NO big deal. It takes 25 minutes for me to jack the car up and change it out if I need to.

I dont see what all the controversy is about.

Originally posted by zerobanger
I run a mid pipe on my rx7 in california, been doing it for like 2 years as EVERYONE else does. NO big deal. It takes 25 minutes for me to jack the car up and change it out if I need to.

I dont see what all the controversy is about.

Exactly...

what exactly is a mid-pipe? does it bypass the cat?

Also, will the canzoomers mod with high flow cats fail the emissions test in states other than CA?

Thanks

A mid-pipe is a straight pipe, that is a direct replacement for the cat. To pass emissions, you would have to do as Zerobanger said above, and literally exchange the cat for the pipe.

Originally posted by JimW
... hell, I'd be cut off for months, I couldn't take it, I outgrew the Vasaline useage! Woh Jim, that's WAAAAAY too much information! ROTFLMAO!!! :D

Originally posted by wolfbeast
Will the canzoomers mod with high flow cats fail the emissions test in states other than CA? Not likely. A high flow, high temp cat will do the same thing as the stock cat, it just won't melt at the stage II's higher exhaust temps.

Yes it was a bit juvenile, Just kidding about all that , although she would be pissed! Hey Omicron have you heard any more info on the stage 2 mod, details, release ect. I was hesitant on the Electric supercharger, especially after a few of the rotory experts were saying the stock seals and rotors wouldn't be able to take much boost if any at all. I suppose the stage 2 mod is our best bet and has the abilty to make more power than the last generation turbo RX7. Damit.... I cant wait!

Originally posted by Aesculapius
Technically it's against EPA regulations to replace any of the exhaust system since the backpressures from stock exhaust contribute to the overall emissions signature of a car. Removing those backpressures with high flow exhaust will change that emission signature and is technically a no-no.

BUT, what they choose to enforce is a totally different story. I believe that it is the same with CHANGING a cat (not removing).

ive been ticketed for exhaust on those exact grounds..

but then again, i was in my civic and the cop was training a recruit. :confused:

Originally posted by JimW
Yes it was a bit juvenile, Just kidding about all that , although she would be pissed! Hey Omicron have you heard any more info on the stage 2 mod, details, release ect. I was hesitant on the Electric supercharger, especially after a few of the rotory experts were saying the stock seals and rotors wouldn't be able to take much boost if any at all. I suppose the stage 2 mod is our best bet and has the abilty to make more power than the last generation turbo RX7. Damit.... I cant wait! Nah, just giving you a hard time Jim. :D

No, I have not heard much more about the stage II mod, just that it's a bit more radical A/F tuning and involves some ignition advance. I also heard something about it needing to be tied directly into the car's baro sensor for people at high altitudes, like I am. Anyway, my guess would be that Maurice will have it out within the next couple of months, as it utilizes the same physical hardware as the Stage I only with different maps. I do know that Maurice said those of us with Stage I kits would be able to upgrade them to stage II for less than a complete "new" kit stage II kit would cost.

However, using the stage II means you pretty much must replace your cat, as with the new maps the exhaust temps get hot enough to fry the factory cat in short order. Canzoomer will be selling these cats too. My understanding is that they have been on test vehicles for a couple of months now with no problems.

My one concern with the stage II kit was something RX-8 Friend said a while back - that it runs your car much closer to the "ragged edge" of performance than most street vehicles run. To me, this equates to potentially decreased reliability of the car, and I don't know that I'm willing to risk that. That may have been just a casual comment from RX-8 friend, but as he was the closest thing to Maurice we had for a few weeks, I tend to think he knows what he is talking about.

Really, I personally need more info before I can decide. I would love to hear from Canzoomer himself as to the streetability of the Stage II mod.

My roommate's been running his Cobra catless for at least a year. He hasn't had any trouble with cops...

Anyway, when I get enough money...I'm going with the mid pipe + Borla combo.

I wonder how much hp we could squeeze out of the 8 NA with CZ Stage 2, header (whenever someone comes out with one), exhaust, and intake..

Epitrochoid (clever username, btw), what year are you at UCF, and do you own an 8? Wondering if you've seen me around campus (Winning Blue).

Omicron, I just e-mailed Maurice about the stage 2 and about RX8 friends thread. If it's on edge as far as reliability, I agree and cant afford unwarranted repairs at this stage. According to Maurices dyno and barometer corrections with stage 1, this seems like more than enough power, "270 crank H.P. ", that sounds great! but if stage 2 is safe and pushes 300 than i'm all for it. As far as running a test pipe, I couldn't care about the law, but I'm environmentaly conscious, so I'll install the Random Tech cat, it shouldnt be that much of a power difference on N/A.

My thoughts exactly, Jim.

JimW -
I guess "environmentally conscious" is a pretty vague term. Keeping the cat, but still driving around in a 14 mpg vehicle?

Yeah, I'm "environmentally conscious" too. I'm not going to get a Prius. I'm gonna get a 15mpg velocity red with the stage II ECU mod and a high temp cat... The lack of power and sex appeal were the only reasons I didn't choose a Prius. However, it looks as if high powered hybrid sports cars are closer than we think.

I can't wait to see how development comes along with the Mitsubishi Eclipse E-boost concept. 470 combined horses out of a hybrid vehicle sounds like we'll be seeing some pure hybrid sports cars pretty soon. Well, at least until hydrogen fuel cells start churning out 500 horses with nothing more than pure H20 dripping from the exhaust pipes.

Just my two cents.

-P23

P.S. Honda's coming out with a Hybrid Accord that get's four-banger mileage and V-6 power. I hope this isn't the trend. I hope the E-Boost concept gets 80 mpg. Too bad it's just wishful thinking. It'll probably get 25 mpg instead of 20 (numbers pulled out of my ass...) and still keep that lovely yellow haze hanging over Los Angeles.

portero23, I just want to make it clear that I'm not a Greenpeace Freak, but I do not think it's vague wanting to install a performance catylitic converter that will remove some harmful emissions that you otherwise wouldn't with a straightpipe. I understand that the Thermal Tech Cat will not pass EPA standards but at least it will remove or lower some elements. The MPG issue is due to Mazda switching the air/fuel to a richer setting so the emissions warranty wouldn't expire prematurely, of course when I bought the car I had no knowledge of this. Like you, I bought the car for it asthetic, funfactor and performance, so yes I much prefer it to any economycar or my former ULEV EXV6 Accord that was a lemon and repurchased by Honda due to(what else) emissions of hydrogen sulfide leaking into the car, so while it might have been cleaner for the outside, it was killing me inside! I do like the Hydrogen concept though.

Wait! I traded my RX8, the most excellent, beautiful, great handling, fun, best car I ever owned, for a golf cart............NOT!

Ok Maurice, so how about an update on where you are with the Stage 2 development? And any word on what the upgrade price will be to go from stage 1 to stage 2? Thanks...

I suppose that the Stage 2 will work with a high flow cat? I wonder if anyone is going to come out with 1 soon?

Originally posted by Jeff_pap31s
I suppose that the Stage 2 will work with a high flow cat? I wonder if anyone is going to come out with 1 soon? Stage 2 will require a (high flow) high temp cat, due to the increased exhaust temperatures from the advanced timing. CanZoomer is selling one (made by Random Technologies, which is probably also selling them) and other companies will have them out soon too. Check out www.canzoomer.com for CZ's pricing.

Thanks Omicron! I didn't see it there when I went to his site. I'll have to check again, then I can upgrade to stage 2! Sweet!

Any idea as to when stage 2 might be out? "Oh" never mind Omicron already asked that question, but it doesn't hurt to ask again!

"Yeah" come on down stage 2. I can't wait for you baby! I sweat at night with anticipation and dreams about high speed and fast corners. And then I woke up!

anxiously waiting for stage II........please please please..any updates?

Hmm...call me uneducated but I have to ask. Why are the stage 2 and stage 3 labeled as for off road use only if Canzoomer if offering high flow cat's ? I thought the reason they would be off road only was because they required the cat to be removed due to heat? If you have a high heat cat, wouldn't it be street legal?

Originally posted by cockdiesel
Hmm...call me uneducated but I have to ask. Why are the stage 2 and stage 3 labeled as for off road use only if Canzoomer if offering high flow cat's ? I thought the reason they would be off road only was because they required the cat to be removed due to heat? If you have a high heat cat, wouldn't it be street legal?

It depends where, but the safe answer is NO. In California, for example, replacing the cat is a definite no-no, and unless the modifications are CARB approved they are not street legal, even if they meet all tailpipe requirements. The CARB (California Air Resources Board) approval process can be very (very) expensive, so for a small vendor the only way to market their products is to declare them for off-road use only.

Regards,
Gordon

Hemmm! I guess stage 2 is on the way out. Any final details about it such as power gains and relocation of the coil packs if needed, also I can't view Maurice's price sheet on his sight for some reason. Thanks

does stage 2 have the off switch?