Just for fun.

Lets assume that for whatever reason, the REN is suddenly 300lbs heavier, and 100% more powerful. You can move it wherever you could do so before, but the weight and power cannot change.

Save the handling.

Go!

Just for fun.

Lets assume that for whatever reason, the REN is suddenly 300lbs heavier, and 100% more powerful. You can move it wherever you could do so before, but the weight and power cannot change.

Save the handling.

Go!

If it's 300 lbs heavier then how can the weight and power not change?

I mean you can mess around with everything except my given values for weight and power.

If it's 300 lbs heavier then how can the weight and power not change?


^ Not related at all, but I see some camel toe in your sig

:lol:

^ Not related at all, but I see some camel toe in your sig

:lol:


http://yeabitz.com/hosting/o_rry.jpg

^ i love that pic (the owl... ok both)

Anyone?

300 lbs up front? You would need more than the 100% (I presume you mean "double") power, which you have allotted.
Not a worthwhile project.

http://yeabitz.com/hosting/o_rry.jpg

I lol'ed at this at the worst possible time ......

Lol ^

so you are saying that all of a sudden the motor is putting out ~ 400 whp but the motor also weighs 300 lbs more..

i would be thinking mid engine.

beers :beer:

i say 300 lb boat anchor in the trunk then its like it never happened and handling is same as stock ren. ?? This was not a fun project.

Its not "really" about the weight, rather where the weight is. OK. so keeping the center of gravity in all the same places. i assume you mean that the 300 additional lbs are distributed as equally through the motor as the stock renesis is. So distribute 300 more lbs to the other end of the car as equally as the stock renesis is as well. its just like having a smaller car with a smaller motor. Handling is still the same.

You compare a miata with a miata engine to an rx8 with a renesis, the rx8 wins. But compare a miata with a hemi to a rx8 with a 20b engine. The rx8 still wins.. even with a heavier motor.

I dont know if that really makes sense but it did when i was typing it.

Be more specific. You would relocate 300lbs from the front to the back...how exactly?

You have an unlimited budged. Buy anything.

300 lbs up front? You would need more than the 100% (I presume you mean "double") power, which you have allotted.
Not a worthwhile project.

Explain how you figure that. Yes, I mean double. 400whp, 300lb-ft. I know the real values wouldn't be that nice but lets just go with these.

Lets assume that your allowed to move any part anywhere as long as it would still do its job there. And buy just about any part.

There isn't a lot in the front that can be relocated to the rear other than the battery. There are things in the middle that could be moved to the rear which would affect the balance. Taking out the transmission and putting in a racing transaxle would be one. Remove the saddle gas tank and put a fuel cell in the trunk area would be an other. Acid dipping the front fenders would drop a little weight up front. But then you wouldn't be relocating the weight. Just removing it. And that isn't what your question is.

There isn't a lot in the front that can be relocated to the rear other than the battery. There are things in the middle that could be moved to the rear which would affect the balance. Taking out the transmission and putting in a racing transaxle would be one. Remove the saddle gas tank and put a fuel cell in the trunk area would be an other. Acid dipping the front fenders would drop a little weight up front. But then you wouldn't be relocating the weight. Just removing it. And that isn't what your question is.

Well I like where this is going, so I'm bending the question.

You can remove reasonable weight from anywhere. Nothing that would make a car undriveable i.e. taking off all the front body panels.

And you are allowed any suspension parts/mods you think might help.

The transaxle is EXACTLY the type of thing I am looking for.

Keep going :) :)

Unlimited budget ? hmm ...

Im just gonna buy another car then, problems Solved :lol:

Move the tranny to the back (transaxle)?

Be more specific. You would relocate 300lbs from the front to the back...how exactly?

You have an unlimited budged. Buy anything.



Explain how you figure that. Yes, I mean double. 400whp, 300lb-ft. I know the real values wouldn't be that nice but lets just go with these.

Lets assume that your allowed to move any part anywhere as long as it would still do its job there. And buy just about any part.

I don't follow the premise, I get it, but don't follow it. There already are 400whp Renesis engines and the weight wasn't doubled.

How about a dry sump with the reservoir towards the back? Too much pipe?

You gonna fill that sump with 37 gallons of oil to offset the weight of the motor?

I am still a little comfused about what we are trying to do here maybe ill catch on here in a little bit.....maybe

You gonna fill that sump with 37 gallons of oil to offset the weight of the motor?

Nope. But every bit helps.

I am still a little comfused about what we are trying to do here maybe ill catch on here in a little bit.....maybe


There is an RX-8, that for whatever reason is 300lbs heavier in the front than usual. What could one do to save the handling? i.e. relocating parts farther back, buying lighter parts for the front, suspension modifications, etc.

I want to know specifics. Don't just say "move parts backwards" say "move this part to this place". Dont just say "buy lighter parts" say "this part can be made lighter this way" or "here is a nice light version of that part". Don't just say "suspension mods" say "this type of suspension component would help, here's why".

That's what I'm challenging the community to answer.

There is an RX-8, that for whatever reason is 300lbs heavier in the front than usual. What could one do to save the handling? i.e. relocating parts farther back, buying lighter parts for the front, suspension modifications, etc.

I say lose the Ls2 and put a Fi'd 20b in its place. This way center of Gravity will be lower and farther behind the front "axel".

I say lose the Ls2 and put a Fi'd 20b in its place. This way center of Gravity will be lower and farther behind the front "axel".

Thats...a hilarious post. And I don't mean that in an insulting way. Just don't ask why.

As I said, you can move the engine anywhere it would normally go. Where would you mount it?

You're not going to save the handling. Moving the tranny weight back may help balance, but you will still end up with a higher polar moment of inertia.

The solution for this problem is simple.

You simply extend the front of the vehicle by 4 feet. Then the engine becomes mid mount.

The solution for this problem is simple.

You simply extend the front of the vehicle by 4 feet. Then the engine becomes mid mount.

Well, I can't say thats not a fair post, because according to my rules it is.

So I'll simply ask: How would one do it without extending the body?

How do the big 20B RX-8 teams do it?

Well, I can't say thats not a fair post, because according to my rules it is.

So I'll simply ask: How would one do it without extending the body?

How do the big 20B RX-8 teams do it?

I assume you mean the Speedsource cars, which are not RX-8 chassis, but tube frames from Riley.

Mazsport did a 3 rotor a little while ago that had the engine pushed back into the near stock location by pushing back the transmission further.

Thats...a hilarious post. And I don't mean that in an insulting way. Just don't ask why.

As I said, you can move the engine anywhere it would normally go. Where would you mount it?

Maybe I misunderstand the premise, because "anywhere it would normally go" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It normally goes in the engine bay, unless you are talking about redesigning the chassis, and then it's not an RX-8. Or are you suggesting putting the engine inside the passenger area?

To all: Your mods must be to a stock RX-8 chassis. Meaning you can modify the chassis but you cannot build a new one from scratch, i.e. no tube frames I'm afraid.

I assume you mean the Speedsource cars, which are not RX-8 chassis, but tube frames from Riley.

Mazsport did a 3 rotor a little while ago that had the engine pushed back into the near stock location by pushing back the transmission further.

Well I WAS thinking of them, but I had assumed that if there was one RX-8 GT car there were more.

There was another one I had in mind but thinking about it now it had a widebody kit and probably had a modified engine bay.

And...what frames from where? EDIT : Oh. Google is my friend.


Maybe I misunderstand the premise, because "anywhere it would normally go" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It normally goes in the engine bay, unless you are talking about redesigning the chassis, and then it's not an RX-8. Or are you suggesting putting the engine inside the passenger area?

I mean that you can move it as far down/back as the normal REN could be moved. And you CAN modify the chassis, just not build it from scratch. So for example, if you needed to cut something out of the way to put the engine there, you could.

So with 460hp (estimated to the flywheel), and 300lbs up front...

Car is a near 50/50 split stock right? calc 300.lbs to the front, is it really that much? average driver weighs 190lbs in the usa.

Solution:

Get a wide bodykit - slap some 19x10 wheels on all 4's, 275/40 tires up front, and balance rear tires with 280/35 to 300-320/30's for the rear.... balance=dial in trial and error. this would be very suspension dependant at this point so best to have the following installed and set to custom settings before engine changes.


Suspension:
Tanabe suspension with TEAS. + all JIC suspension parts (aka *.*) so frame is stiff, and only feedback is from the shock & rubber(tires).

Now you have full suspension adjustability... and rear tire traction will be managed by tire width, as the horse power is defined at 430-460hp... you can dial your turn in and amt of traction by preference (adjust alignment for toe in or out, camber caster).

end summery: Cars weight distribution can always be offset by tire traction, covering quality of tires is moot, as sticking all season tires instead of street legal race tires is just retarded :)

If handling is a primary concern... one i'd expect eventually get all bushing points that are rubber replaced with silicon or ball-joint design (+JIC_insert). with full range of suspension modification, and tire chioce with a widebody kit.. hell you could stick a 737 engine in their if you can find some 20x30inch/40 wheels somewhere... i'm sure it might handle the weight, turnin response aside :P

Best of luck!

Sorry guys i haven't been here a while... 2 promotions at work ironically doesn't make work easier... :)

So with 460hp (estimated to the flywheel), and 300lbs up front...

Car is a near 50/50 split stock right? calc 300.lbs to the front, is it really that much? average driver weighs 190lbs in the usa.

Solution:

Get a wide bodykit - slap some 19x10 wheels on all 4's, 275/40 tires up front, and balance rear tires with 280/35 to 300-320/30's for the rear.... balance=dial in trial and error. this would be very suspension dependant at this point so best to have the following installed and set to custom settings before engine changes.


Suspension:
Tanabe suspension with TEAS. + all JIC suspension parts (aka *.*) so frame is stiff, and only feedback is from the shock & rubber(tires).

Now you have full suspension adjustability... and rear tire traction will be managed by tire width, as the horse power is defined at 430-460hp... you can dial your turn in and amt of traction by preference (adjust alignment for toe in or out, camber caster).

end summery: Cars weight distribution can always be offset by tire traction, covering quality of tires is moot, as sticking all season tires instead of street legal race tires is just retarded :)

If handling is a primary concern... one i'd expect eventually get all bushing points that are rubber replaced with silicon or ball-joint design (+JIC_insert). with full range of suspension modification, and tire chioce with a widebody kit.. hell you could stick a 737 engine in their if you can find some 20x30inch/40 wheels somewhere... i'm sure it might handle the weight, turnin response aside :P

Best of luck!

Sorry guys i haven't been here a while... 2 promotions at work ironically doesn't make work easier... :)

Tell me more about steering response.

Steering Response:

Couldn't tell you, never been behind the wheel of 275+width tires. Plus the rx8 handles differently then a 240sx/rps13 in a drift, i'm not sure if this is due to the electrical steering assist... but you can't let go of the steering wheel and manage the angle by throttle in an rx8...

but really.. 275/35x19's up front and 300+/30x19's in the rear? you might want to be more concerned of turning into the wall instead of understeering out :).

Also if it's a v8 engine.. it's going to sit higher then the current motor, so mount points aside. Drive shaft and re-enforcing the tranny & rear diff would be the likely weakest link... don't forget the fuel pump.

You can always tweak toe in/out for the front & rear tires, with sacrifice to tire wear. With high pricing of 19" tires, zero toe angle, and camber to keep tires wear balanced, and change your driving habbit is what i'd do, though i don't have the luxury of burning 800.00 on tires every 6months...

Steering Response:



but really.. 275/35x19's up front and 300+/30x19's in the rear? you might want to be more concerned of turning into the wall instead of understeering out :).


Great replies.

Tell me more about that.