I have yet to see anyone do it, any reason? Seems like the thing to do, especially on the hard to find housings like the cosmo.

Taint just chrome plate - this ain't no bumper.

It's a micro-porous chrome alloy, holes in it to retain lube, can't be done at "ACME Plating and Undercoating."

S

Hmm, yea its a given its not just standard triple chrome, that wouldnt last a weekend. I figured it was the typical hard chrome (used on hydraulic cylinders most commonly). I will have to ask my plater (largest industrial plater on the east coast) and see what he thinks about it. He knows every type of plating there is, so I will find out if thats just a fancy term or if its the real deal. Thanks bro.

Its not "plating" in the traditional sense.
It is a sheet-metal insert that is machined into a hardened, porous surface.

But from what I have seen, its very similar to hard chrome plating. I see it wear,peel and flake...so it can be replated. Nickel is porous(the chrome in bumper chrome), but not as strong. Hard chromium is made for extreme wear, abrasion and I am sure with lubricant....it will work nicely in theory.

Edit, found the answer. Its hard chrome plating.

Hard Chrome Plating
Most people would not be very familiar with hard chrome plating. Hard chromium plating is chrome plating that has been applied as a fairly heavy coating (usually measured in thousandths of an inch) for wear resistance, lubricity, oil retention, and other 'wear' purposes. Some examples would be hydraulic cylinder rods, rollers, piston rings, mold surfaces, thread guides, gun bores, etc. 'Hard chrome' is not really harder than other chrome plating, it is called hard chromium because it is thick enough that a hardness measurement can be performed on it, whereas decorative chrome plating is onlt millionths of an inch thick and will break like an eggshell if a hardness test is conducted, so its hardness can't really be measured directly. Hard chrome plating is almost always applied to items that are made of steel, usually hardened steel. It is metallic in appearance but is not particularly reflective or decorative. There are variations even within hard chrome plating, with some of the coatings optimized to be especially porous for oil retention, etc.

It is similar in the same way that glass is similar to ice.

Ive yet to see anything to say its not plated, its the logical way to do it. I deal with this type of stuff on a daily basis. You couldnt press a paper thin sleeve into the housing, it wouldnt work. However, you could plate 1,000 an hour. The plating is porous, just like show chrome. Without a copper base, the show chrome will rust within a day. Mazda may have thrown some magical ideas out there, but I see nothing proving anything else. I say electronically strip the chrome, and replate to spec. If they didnt plate it, they should have.

Alright...
10A = The rotor housing was made of sand-cast aluminum plated with chrome
10A 1971 model = The die-cast rotor housing was now coated with a new process: The new Transplant Coating Process (TCP) featured sprayed-on steel which is then coated with chrome.
12A = In 1974, a new process was used to harden the rotor housing. The Sheet-metal Insert Process (SIP) used a sheet of steel much like a conventional piston engine cylinder liner with a chrome plated surface.

so yea....they are plated.

by any chance were you dropped on your head as a baby?

What are you stupid? Its plated.

Without the technical crap describing it that has obviously confused everyone...
Its a housing with a "sleeve" pressed in, for the prescision size and durability....something a cast part is not. Then the sleeve is chrome plated. No special mazda sauce sprinkled on it. Simple hard chromium, aka hard chrome.

No its not.

*sigh* ... this thread fails.

so does the OP.

Lemme get the popcorn ready.

lol, you guys are something else.

I hear alot of "no its not" and yet mazda, and every other source says it is.....lol, whatever.

So, wake me up when you prove its not plated.

1. MAZDA OEM
a. Mazda Hard Chrome
For wear protection, Mazda OEM rotor housings are hard chrome plated and the
cast iron end housings are soft gas nitrided. Mazda chose these processes in the
mid 1960’s as the best option available to them at the time. There are several
criteria that would have influenced Mazda’s choices at the time, including:
Performance: Specifically, that the coating or treatment must result in a motor
that will meet minimum performance criterion such as engine life and sealing
ability. Lets say for instance that Mazda’s engineers were required to produce
block components that could be operated within their allowed dimensional and
wear margins for 80,000 km, the chosen coating or treatments would have to
meet this minimum criterion in order to be considered.
Availability / Resources: Now remember, we are in the mid 1960’s! A major
consideration when choosing what kind of surface treatment to use is its
availability on the market now and in the future. Both Chrome and Soft Nitriding
were widely available and they were very commonly used in many industries.
These were hence safe choices as there was no sign that these well established,
refined processes would soon be replaced by others.
Cost: Cost is always the bottom line. This is true for Mazda in the 1960’s as well
(just as in any manufacturing facility). Recall, back then Mazda was a small
manufacturer taking a big chance on a new engine design. They could not afford
to spend huge sums of money on new technologies to develop this engine. They
needed to focus the monies spent on the real problem areas, not on re-inventing
the wheel. Hence, where possible they would rely on economical, proven
technologies such as chrome plating and gas nitriding.
Ironically, these types of decisions are not always the best and may have
become an Achilles heel for Mazda in the end. It is the opinion of the engineers
at JHB Performance that the cause of problems such as wear, chatter marks and
poor compression are due to the use of chrome plating. Mazda spend lots of time
and effort trying to alleviate these problems with alternative seal designs and
material compositions rather than attacking the root cause of the problem that we
feel is the chrome plating itself. Nonetheless, Mazda stuck with their huge capital
investment into hard chrome plating and invested over 30 years of development
time into trying to make this type of wear coating work in the rotary engine with
little success. This is not to say that Mazda did not achieve an engine with
moderate reliability, but to point out that their success would have been
compounded many times had they not stuck with chrome plating.

This thread fails? WTF? Go tighten up your cold air intake.

Soo, Dominion....if its not plated, what is it?

You are mighty selective when you quote - if you read further down the SAME DOCUMENT, to the Oil Retention paragraph, you will find the actual material description.

.....and it's not 'hard chrome'.

http://jhbperformance.com/downloads/jhb-tech01oem.pdf

S

thats the entire document, not sre where you got yours.

Search MAZDA's media and they even say hard chrome, aka chrome-molybdenum
plating. Without a shadow of a doubt, its hard chrome. Keep reading. They used several techiniques to improve oiling, while always using hard chrome plating. Its simply THE process to use, I dont know of anything better, and it looks like lil ole Mazda didnt either. I will take Mazda's word for it.

OK, hard chrome for you.

Just stick your fingers in your ears and sing "LaLaLaLa - I'm not listening!"

Take it over to Al's Overnight Plate'n'Go and slap a coat on, and stop bothering us with your strange chrome fetish.


S

lol, you guys are something else.

I hear alot of "no its not" and yet mazda, and every other source says it is.....lol, whatever.

So, wake me up when you prove its not plated.

1. MAZDA OEM
a. Mazda Hard Chrome
For wear protection, Mazda OEM rotor housings are hard chrome plated and the
cast iron end housings are soft gas nitrided. Mazda chose these processes in the
mid 1960’s as the best option available to them at the time. There are several
criteria that would have influenced Mazda’s choices at the time, including:
Performance: Specifically, that the coating or treatment must result in a motor
that will meet minimum performance criterion such as engine life and sealing
ability. Lets say for instance that Mazda’s engineers were required to produce
block components that could be operated within their allowed dimensional and
wear margins for 80,000 km, the chosen coating or treatments would have to
meet this minimum criterion in order to be considered.
Availability / Resources: Now remember, we are in the mid 1960’s! A major
consideration when choosing what kind of surface treatment to use is its
availability on the market now and in the future. Both Chrome and Soft Nitriding
were widely available and they were very commonly used in many industries.
These were hence safe choices as there was no sign that these well established,
refined processes would soon be replaced by others.
Cost: Cost is always the bottom line. This is true for Mazda in the 1960’s as well
(just as in any manufacturing facility). Recall, back then Mazda was a small
manufacturer taking a big chance on a new engine design. They could not afford
to spend huge sums of money on new technologies to develop this engine. They
needed to focus the monies spent on the real problem areas, not on re-inventing
the wheel. Hence, where possible they would rely on economical, proven
technologies such as chrome plating and gas nitriding.
Ironically, these types of decisions are not always the best and may have
become an Achilles heel for Mazda in the end. It is the opinion of the engineers
at JHB Performance that the cause of problems such as wear, chatter marks and
poor compression are due to the use of chrome plating. Mazda spend lots of time
and effort trying to alleviate these problems with alternative seal designs and
material compositions rather than attacking the root cause of the problem that we
feel is the chrome plating itself. Nonetheless, Mazda stuck with their huge capital
investment into hard chrome plating and invested over 30 years of development
time into trying to make this type of wear coating work in the rotary engine with
little success. This is not to say that Mazda did not achieve an engine with
moderate reliability, but to point out that their success would have been
compounded many times had they not stuck with chrome plating.

This thread fails? WTF? Go tighten up your cold air intake.

Soo, Dominion....if its not plated, what is it?

You cant even get ur facts straight

Dont you feel shame that a "cold air intake" guy knows better than you?

Get lost. you have failed.

by any chance were you dropped on your head as a baby?

Enuff said.

Ahh, the sweet lulz...

http://jhbperformance.com/downloads/jhb-tech01oem.pdf

S

Thanks for the link, very informative. I learned something new tonight.

http://hardwarelogic.com/articles/blogs/Website_Reviews_and_You/MoreYouKnow.jpg

hehehe.. it's like they're playing battleship with facts..

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123655&stc=1&d=1216208644

You cant even get ur facts straight

Dont you feel shame that a "cold air intake" guy knows better than you?

Get lost. you have failed.



Enuff said.

Are you retarded? They have said over and over, THEY ARE HARD CHROME PLATED. Read the ENTIRE article. Read Mazdas site. Read wikipedia. Read every source on the subject. Why you guys are too damn dumb to figure it out is beyond me.....

Ok, lets say Mazda lied and didnt actually hard chrome plate the housings. What did they do? No one has came up with a single fact proving they didnt, and I have showed multiple sources showing it IS hard chrome plated.

They tried aluminum that was plated, it didnt stick well enough. Then they engineered a press in iron sleeve, since regular steel corroded(rusted) badly, which caused it to peel. The plated iron worked. They used a special honing process to make tiny grooves, which helped retain the oil. If you are gunna talk shit, get your shit straight.

The article states, their success would have been compounded had the not stuck with hard chrome plating. This is probably because the source of the article is trying to sell their own cermet process, implying that if mazda used the cermet process....they would have had better success. Since they didnt....THEY STUCK WITH HARD CHROME PLATING.

Till then, enjoy a nice warm glass of STFU.

Here are some housings that were hard chrome plated, back to exact OEM spec by Glassman.
http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v186/machseven/Chromed%20housings/Dsc00657.jpg
http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v186/machseven/Chromed%20housings/Dsc00654.jpg
http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v186/machseven/Chromed%20housings/Dsc00653.jpg

:owned:

Ahh, I just figured out the problem.
This is an RX-8 forum, not an RX-7 forum.
Last I checked, the Renesis didn't have peripheral exhaust ports.
I'll run out and take a look again, just to be sure.

well if is not hard chrome then what is it?
I know the chrome has several process's it goes through for lube, life expectancy purposes, but it is hard chrome.
Like the man says its chrome.
The process's are the fine definer.
I think it just costs too much to have them redone and the ones i know off too date reportedly do not last long.
I have long wondered about ceramics being used in there.
olddragger

I'm back. Nope. No peripheral exhaust.

I'm back. Nope. No peripheral exhaust.

:lol2:

I'm back. Nope. No peripheral exhaust.

:lol2:

Till then, enjoy a nice warm glass of STFU.

Ahh ~ Save that nice & warm glass of STFU to yourself.

i have worked in a japanese manufacturing supplier for over 5 years, and one of our trade secrets at my last company was a catalytic nickel plating that we called "Kanigan Coating" it was first used in japanese water treatment pumps, to reduce wear and cavitation. It is EXTREMELY difficult to perfect a nickel wear coating without peeling and to have a consistent thickness (10 microns plus or minus 2 microns)

it could possibly be a "Kanigan" type coating.

google it.

I think there is a semantics problem here.
It is with the term "coating".
Regardless of what the surface material is, the method by which it is applied to the epitrochoid surface is not analogous to the traditional electroplating methods used in the past.
There is a reason Mazda trashes old Renesis housings. The surface is not renewable.

I think there is a semantics problem here.
It is with the term "coating".
Regardless of what the surface material is, the method by which it is applied to the epitrochoid surface is not analogous to the traditional electroplating methods used in the past.
There is a reason Mazda trashes old Renesis housings. The surface is not renewable.

agreed, it is not a traditional electroplate, nor would you be able to do it twice, no matter the method of application.


whoever recoated that rotor housing is going to have problems reaaaaaal quick.

Well, that is an REW housing in those pictures.
People ceramic coat them and such with results varying from poor to catastrophe.
For a drag car, I guess it isn't an issue.

The apex seals used in the MSP will walk right through any coating you can apply post OE.

I have found a company that has a very durable "chroming" technique that is intended for wear surfaces. It can be done. I had taken a housing in for them to look at so I could get a quote. I was given an estimate of around $1200 per housing. A new one from Mazda costs $563 each. Hardly worth it and even if cost weren't an issue, they still aren't proven.

I asked Dr. Ianetti about this same thing a couple of years ago since there are companies/people out there that are ceramic coating housings and doing all sorts of other things. His response to me at the time was that it can't be done with any form of reliability.

Thanks RG and olddragger.

My local industrial plater can do it no problem, he said its no problem deplating them and replating them. He said you have to change up the process slightly at the end of the plating to open the pores back up, the way the OEM did it. As long as there are no gouges, its a simple procedure. I can get it done pretty cheaply compared to those prices, and he was familiar with them.

So, once again....you guys...its hard chrome plating. Not a mythical magical mazda chemical thats sprayed on via teleportation. 100% without question, its hard chrome plating.

Mazdamaniac....I wonder if anyone has ever had a non Renesis engine installed into a Rx8? Thats a crazy thought.....nah, couldnt be possible. :)

Mazdamaniac....I wonder if anyone has ever had a non Renesis engine installed into a Rx8? Thats a crazy thought.....nah, couldnt be possible. :)

That isn't even the question. Check where you are.
Plate things to your hearts content and use MSP seals.
Let us know how that goes. We're all just newbs here.

If you can get it done economically and are willing to risk trying it then I say go for it and report the results. It may fail but there is always a chance it will work. One for sure way to find out.

If you can get it done economically and are willing to risk trying it then I say go for it and report the results. It may fail but there is always a chance it will work. One for sure way to find out.

He's working with a Cosmo 13B-RE. That's why he hadn't seen anyone do it in an RX-8 forum since it's not the RX-8 engine. It's also why this thread is such a massive failure of confusion.

That's why he pulled pics off of here:

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=310805&pp=25

After 4 years, that thread still has no results.

Sounds like most of the forced induction threads around here.

Thanks RG and olddragger.

My local industrial plater can do it no problem, he said its no problem deplating them and replating them. He said you have to change up the process slightly at the end of the plating to open the pores back up, the way the OEM did it. As long as there are no gouges, its a simple procedure. I can get it done pretty cheaply compared to those prices, and he was familiar with them.

So, once again....you guys...its hard chrome plating. Not a mythical magical mazda chemical thats sprayed on via teleportation. 100% without question, its hard chrome plating.

Mazdamaniac....I wonder if anyone has ever had a non Renesis engine installed into a Rx8? Thats a crazy thought.....nah, couldnt be possible. :)


You need to read this closely from the document StealthTL provided:


"Hard Chrome is a dry coating; this meaning that
hard chrome will not naturally retain any oil or lubricants. In a piston engine or a
hydraulic cylinder type of application this not an issue because there is ample
lubrication applied to the chrome during operation (oil splashing on the cylinder
walls of a piston engine during operation OR hydraulic oil that fills a hydraulic
cylinder during operation). However, Rotary engines are sealed from the oil pan
and there is not oil or lubrication for the trochoid surface. Hard Chrome will not
naturally retain or absorb oil. Through special honing and etching variations of
chrome plating such as channel chrome or porous chrome can be achieved
whereby micro-channels or pores are created to try and retain lubrication.

Mazda found that neither channel chrome nor porous chrome were able to meet
the high lubrication demands of the rotary engine. To somewhat alleviate this
problem they developed micro channel pinpoint porous chrome plating for the
rotary engine, a combination of channel and porous chrome. The principle behind
this development is that porous chrome is applied to the part and then etched to
produce channels connecting the pores. This network of pores and channels is
devised to aid in the “spreadability” of the oil over the entire surface.

As demonstrated in the figures below, the ratio of pores versus channels is highly
critical. If this ratio is wrong the resultant coating will suffer from very poor oil
spreadability and chatter marks OR scratching of the surface. This process that
Mazda devised is very difficult and not easily replicated (especially cost
effectively), these figures show the obvious shortcomings of simply trying hard
chrome plate a rotor housing cheaply. The effects of improper plating are
excessive apex seal temperature and wear on both the seal and the chrome.
This eventually results in apex seal failure."


So, what I take from this is it is Hard Chrome, but porous hard chrome, applied in a very special process that is not going to be able to be easily replicated. The last paragraph highlights what happens when it is not applied properly - BTW the graph illustrates significantly higher friction levels for normal hard chrome (cF of .4-.5) versus Mazda's process in which cF is less that .1

Exactly right Jax. But its not difficult to reproduce. It cant be done easily on a severely worn housing, because it will have gone too far. The honing leaves fine grooves in the sleeve (nothing new), and when plated it has to be plated and at the end of the plating process, he said the process had to be reversed for a short time and this will open the pores up the way Mazda did it originally. This way you have your grooves, and micro pores to hold oil. I wouldnt suggest trying it on a perfect running engine, but if one is low on compression and nearly useless AND difficult to replace (13b-re comes to mind), it MAY be the best option. My local plater does industrial plating for large companies equal to that of Mazda, so if he says he can do it....I have no doubt he can do it.

It blows my mind that people have no clue on the subject and still claim I am wrong, I expected that from the typical honda tuner crowd. I hate a dumbass "tuner".

It blows my mind that people have no clue on the subject and still claim I am wrong, I expected that from the typical honda tuner crowd. I hate a dumbass "tuner".


All you have done is make unsubstantiated claims yourself that you can replicate the Renesis SIP process. So, no one is "claiming" anything but you.
Go out and try this (on a Renesis housing with Renesis seals) and show us it works.

We would love it if this would work, but are skeptical due to all of the past coating failures or lack of consistent success.

The DLC (diamond like coatings) and ceramics folks have had a run at it already. They still have some promise, but have yet to prove success.

If you can show this to work, great!

I will wait here for your results...

Precisely.
The RX-7Club thread on this is 4 years old and has no results. How do you think that looks?

Just so that everyone can see what we're talking about.

Here's my RX-8 housings:

Just so that everyone can see what we're talking about.

Here's my RX-8 housings:



lol @ anyone reproducing that without a massive investment in equipment.

theres a hard chrome deposition method called plasma spraying that works very effectively... just had it done at work fo fix a bent shaft a few months ago - basically "spray" on 10 thousandths or so of hard chrome and machine the thing straight again on the lathe

most industrial type machine shops can do it :eyetwitch

My beef was with everyone saying "its not hard chrome plated", when I have proved it was. People talking shit that know absolutely nothing and probably cant change a damn spark plug. If anyone can replicate it besides Joe Blow @ Mazda assembly line is beyond me. I have heard people say they can without issue, and seeing how Mazda did this in the 60's...technology has drastically improved as well as technique. Once again, not all Rx8's have the renesis engine...and I couldnt care less about what the Renesis has inside it, because I dont own one....it could have pistons for all I know. Mazda didnt invent the wheel, and they did all of this with technology that was avaiable in the 60's. They have done the hard part, replicating it is the easy part if there is such a thing.

Precisely.
The RX-7Club thread on this is 4 years old and has no results. How do you think that looks?
It could go either way. I have 5 year old threads on other boards that I lost intrest in...and the parts I manufactured were/are the best performing made. A ton of threads there are old and leave people hanging...hard to judge.

Just so that everyone can see what we're talking about.

Here's my RX-8 housings:

I am not sure if you understand what you are showing or not, but its really not relivant. None of that will change...the Iron sleeve will always stay in place (thats what the "teeth" are....aluminum/iron meeting together). It will look exactly the same when deplated, and then when replated.....Removing the sleeve would be a monumental task, it would be a nightmare.

lol @ anyone reproducing that without a massive investment in equipment.

Umm..An industrial plater has everything on hand to do it....Expensive, yes. But thats how they make money.

I see alot of people putting their dumbass two cents in, but only about 3 actual productive posts. I am not interested in hearing some jackass tuner's opinion. Someone can close the thread, I already have my source and apparently its over 99% of people's heads here.

outkast, for all the effort you put into trying to convince everyone that chrome foil would be amazing for us to use, you could have earned the $580 to buy a new rotor housing.

Since you don't own a RX-8, are you by chance related to Ike?

I have yet to see anyone do it, any reason? Seems like the thing to do, especially on the hard to find housings like the cosmo.

Its pretty funny that, as MM pointed out, this is rx8club.com, not rx7club.com. and then the OP said :

My beef was with everyone saying "its not hard chrome plated", when I have proved it was. People talking shit that know absolutely nothing and probably cant change a damn spark plug. If anyone can replicate it besides Joe Blow @ Mazda assembly line is beyond me. I have heard people say they can without issue, and seeing how Mazda did this in the 60's...technology has drastically improved as well as technique. Once again, not all Rx8's have the renesis engine...and I couldnt care less about what the Renesis has inside it, because I dont own one....it could have pistons for all I know. Mazda didnt invent the wheel, and they did all of this with technology that was avaiable in the 60's. They have done the hard part, replicating it is the easy part if there is such a thing.

Funny. Its just so cool that you can change a spark plug. but you might want to relearn the way you read, this is rx8club.com, you made a post in the tech garage section in rx8club.com. if u're not talking about Renesis. you might want to delete this post and get out.

I can get a new rotor housing less than 580 bux. tell me why would I even cared about what you've said ?

My beef was with everyone saying "its not hard chrome plated",

Its not "plated". Its not an electroplate. I don't care what your "beef" is since you are wrong.

It could go either way. I have 5 year old threads on other boards that I lost intrest in...and the parts I manufactured were/are the best performing made. A ton of threads there are old and leave people hanging...hard to judge.

You just posted in that thread this week that you have nothing to report. How is that "hanging?


I see alot of people putting their dumbass two cents in, but only about 3 actual productive posts. I am not interested in hearing some jackass tuner's opinion.

So, go away, jackhole. Its not like anyone is interested in hearing your pointless rants, either.


Since you don't own a RX-8, are you by chance related to Ike?

More like Judge Ito. Remember him? I bet this guy does.

Is there a point to this thread?

Is there a point to this thread?

Im lost. You tell me.

Is there a point to this thread?

where's the anteater when u need him?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/kishiria/Fuck_You_Im_an_Anteater.jpg

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/misc/LG_XXX.gif........deleted, inappropriate......S

I am not interested in hearing some jackass tuner's opinion.

WooHoo!!
I've made it up to the "jackass tuner" level!!1!
Eat my dust!!


S

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/misc/LG_XXX.gif........deleted, inappropriate......S

Damnit!

I was hoping to get the thread deleted, not my post!:banghead:

My beef was with everyone saying "its not hard chrome plated", when I have proved it was. People talking shit that know absolutely nothing and probably cant change a damn spark plug.

I'm sure he cant change a spark plug... let alone set up his own turbo and tune many RX-8's. I'm sure he knows nothing about the car. Who would want to buy that rather nice looking turbo kit he developed with another well known board member/company. MM is just some internet punk who knows nothing! I bet he doesnt even know what an rx-8 is!

I'm sorry Outkast, but you fail for not providing enough clarification, and further for not accepting the fact that you were wrong, even if it was semantics. And again you fail because you tried arguing with people who have actually taken these things apart time and time again and some are the most knowledgeable on the forum. Believe it or not, just because you're convinced you're right, doesnt mean you are.

All that being said, hope it turns out well. Let us know how it works. If it fails, at least man up and admit it. This might not work with the renny, but results for you will still be interesting.

Damnit!

I was hoping to get the thread deleted, not my post!:banghead:

Directory Listing Denied
This Virtual Directory does not allow contents to be listed.

BOOo what was it!!!

You can still click on it. Just chop off everything after "gif".

You can still click on it. Just chop off everything after "gif".

HAHAHA!!! thats the wallpaper on my phone!!!

gah. I shouldn't have loaded it in the office. I should have known.

HAHAHA!!! thats the wallpaper on my phone!!!

Now that's just plain creepy!

what can i say i'm a creepy fucker, lolz

I have no problem with that.
You do realize who is behind Jessica ("Lonely Girl") in that GIF, right?

Al Bundy?

I have no problem with that.
You do realize who is behind Jessica ("Lonely Girl") in that GIF, right?

hmmm, actually i dont.. i never thought of it... it just seemed like a funny pic to me?

EDIT:::: BEFORE i got looking at it closely, plz tell me its not you......


ZOMG!!! you mean lonely girl as in LG15 dont you!!!

Seriously, where did you think that GIF came from?

Rofl !

Seriously, where did you think that GIF came from?

i had no idea at first, i never paid much attention to the whole thing so i didnt recognize her...

but still who IS that???

but still who IS that???

Who? Foreground or background?:spank:

Who? Foreground or background?:spank:

background.... i know who is in the forground...

Do I have to spell it out for you?

Do I have to spell it out for you?

ummm, yes?

fwiw i know this is coming - :bottom:

:( i cant find a reference to it anywhere, so i'm guessing it should be an obvious answer.... though the only obvious answer i can think of is that it is you!

Its pretty funny that, as MM pointed out, this is rx8club.com, not rx7club.com. and then the OP said :



Funny. Its just so cool that you can change a spark plug. but you might want to relearn the way you read, this is rx8club.com, you made a post in the tech garage section in rx8club.com. if u're not talking about Renesis. you might want to delete this post and get out.

I can get a new rotor housing less than 580 bux. tell me why would I even cared about what you've said ?

The engine is in an Rx8, but not renesis. I didnt see the www.clubrx8withoutstockengine.com I must have overlooked it. I could care less if you can get a housing at all honestly. Just because you dumb bastards have no idea about the actual function of the engines, is no reason to get pissy. I wouldnt come into one of your underglo threads and say I know all about how they are made if I didnt.

outkast, for all the effort you put into trying to convince everyone that chrome foil would be amazing for us to use, you could have earned the $580 to buy a new rotor housing.

Since you don't own a RX-8, are you by chance related to Ike?

You cant even get that right. I own a RX8 you assclown. Who the hell is talking about chrome foil? The exact process is hard chromium plating, call Mazda and talk to anyone with any sense. I am not trying to convince anyone, I have found the answer and talked to no les than 4 different people who have re plated the housings.

For anyone that is actually looking for info, its hard chroming plating. I went to the chrome shop today, they tested a housing. He replated the last one in the late 90's without a failure ever, and it has over 60K on the replated housings. It was low on compression, and they brought it back to stock compression. Its a must have for anyone running the cosmo housings that port em...you dont have the major risk of peeling around the ports.

LOL at you dumb bastards who dont have a clue........holy shit this is great. I have never seen so many wrong people swear they are right. Funny funny shit.

LOL, heres yet another source...

http://jhbperformance.com/products.php#rotor_housing

and another..
http://cp_www.tripod.com/rotary/pg16.htm

The rotor housings were hard chrome plated cast aluminium, the side housings were also made of cast aluminium (the only production Mazda rotary ever to use this), they were sprayed with carbon steel for wear resistance.


and yet another....
http://www.racingbeat.com/Tech/Tech.Engine.4.htm

The inner steel surface is then machined and chrome-plated. The chroming process provides a superior sealing and wearing surface for the apex seals to ride against.


So exactly what don't you guys understand? Do I need to draw a diagram? { If any of you guys are mentally challenged please let me know, and I wont give you a hard time about it). Its all pretty straight forward.


It is hard chrome pated. It is electroplated. It can be de chromed and rechromed without touching the factory machining for oil retention, and long as it has not been gouged by broke apex seal.

guys i would advise not to be so quick to blow people off. I did that before in my younger years and i was the one that ended up looking like an idiot. There is a lot of stuff out there we dont know about. i know that for a fact.
I say Ok show us what you got---wont cost be a dang thing and i may learn something.
olddragger

Outkast,

I think you're looking past one thing here, assuming it is true.

First, I doubt you'd argue against the what is probably fact that Mazda has, and by far, more experience with these engines than any other company. This would include restoring, or attempting to restore the surfaces on these housings.

Again, and this would no doubt be impacted by Mazda's economic advantage in selecting a new housing vs. restoring the surface, but they've seen it best to toss the old old housings and not replate them. Certainly failure rate of a housing that has been 'replated' is part of their consideration.

You cant even get that right. I own a RX8 you assclown.


I guess it was some other outkast187 that made this post:

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2554795&postcount=47

Once again, not all Rx8's have the renesis engine...and I couldnt care less about what the Renesis has inside it, because I dont own one...

Giving it a second look, it's possible you meant you don't have a renesis engine, but that would also explain to the rest of us why you're trying to push some untested RX-7 stuff on us.

No one cares. Have fun playing with yourself.

Outkast,

I think you're looking past one thing here, assuming it is true.

First, I doubt you'd argue against the what is probably fact that Mazda has, and by far, more experience with these engines than any other company. This would include restoring, or attempting to restore the surfaces on these housings.

Again, and this would no doubt be impacted by Mazda's economic advantage in selecting a new housing vs. restoring the surface, but they've seen it best to toss the old old housings and not replate them. Certainly failure rate of a housing that has been 'replated' is part of their consideration.

Excellent points. Mazda knows rotary's like no one else, thats a fact. If you scuff a nikasil(a different plating developed for rotary housings by NSU in 67, but wore apex seals) cylinder on your CR250...does Honda replate it? Nope, they trash it and sell you a shiny new one. Is it because it cant be replated? Nope, they can be replated with no problem, and are replated by the hundreds daily. If you have a defective OEM radio in your car ($600+), do they want it back to repair? Hell no, they will let you buy a brand new one, or install a brand new one under warranty and trash old one. Mazda, Ford, Chevy, etc. are not set up for restoring parts. They have an assembly line halfway around the world, that cranks out new parts and only new parts. They cant just throw in an old part and say...fix it. It takes a major craftsman to make judgement calls on something like that. Its way too expensive for Mazda to start a new factory for refinishing old parts...its much more cost effective to sell new parts.

Olddragger, you hit the nail on the head. I will also take any information someone will give me. I am not charging anyone for the info, and the info is correct . Cant get much better than that.

The rest of you can keep replacing housings. LOL. And everytime that K&N gets dirty, you must throw it away....since you cannot replicate the molecular lubrication filtration system that they do from the factory. And keep them underglo's glowin' .

mysql- you are correct. I own a RX8 with a 13b-RE. So I have nothing to do with a renesis.

this thread was a lot better when i was pushing Jeff to tell me who the guy in the background of the lonelygirl15 GIF is.....

it failed, then was at least laughable, now it fails again....

Outkast, I was assuming they do not replate them even when it's on their dime. Of course on my part I'm assuming that's true, not sure though.

Others have said it's the case. I don't know if they were saying that in the context that the costs were coming out of Mazda's pocket.

I'm not sure they need a factory here to do the replating, but your point is well taken.

They have at least one reman plant in the US though (from what I've read here on this site).

The rest of you can keep replacing housings. LOL.

I know you're overjoyed with yourself but you should really rethink this line of thought that the RENESIS is the same as previous Mazda rotaries.

It isn't. Mazda has gone away from the hard chrome platin process used on the Cosmo because it was unreliable. They now do something which can't be replicated which if you take the time to read in this thread you'll understand is different then the process you're going to use. That's why no one is even considering it with the Reny.

Rotary tech HAS improved since the 60s. The fact that you have rotors from that era that can be re-chromed really isn't news.

And your joy over being unclear about the fact that you were looking for information regarding rechroming a 13b-RE cosmo and thus creating a confusing as all hell clusterfuck of a thread probably means you're going to be missing out on a lot of valuable knowledge related to RX-8s in the future. The same knowledge that helped you out when you bought a car with an engine and turbo you couldn't even identify.

Good luck.

Replating them can be a tedious process, since the housings from a grenaded engine will be more trouble than they are worth. Refinishing them will take a small factory, its about $100K for the line to do it. My local plater has 4 lines to do it and plates for GM, EZ-GO, and turned down Harley-Davidson recently. Its not cost effective for mazda to use the manpower to replate a housing. They may have $75 invested in each housing brand new out the door, pointless to spend hours of work to rework a damaged part. The ideal one to replate is one that has just lost compression over time.

At 75 dollars, I can see why they'd chunk them. I eluded to that advantage Mazda has (over someone considering fixing them vs. buying one).

I'd bet too though they have the customer's best interest in mind as well in that simply replating them may not address reliability issues limited to the wear surface.

In other words, the money spent on new might avoid future issues not involving the wear surface.

Of course, rebuilding an standard piston engine block has well defined procedures that have existed for many years. I don't think that can be said of the rotary (correct me if I'm wrong).

For example, the bolting together, with some very long bolts, to form what amounts to an engine block has to result in stress fractures that'd have to be checked to produce a quality reman'd product, for starters. I have no experience that'd say this is true but my intuition says that's one potential failure mode that'd have to be looked at. If they have procedures outlined for doing so, and that'd probably have to be Mazda outlining them (or an engineer with the right experience), then I'd like to see them....would be interesting.

well a good point would be that certain "mods" could be done to a housing and THEN a fresh coating applied. that could be an advantage over modifying that required some coating contact. If it was coast effective you could send the housing off while you do a mild porting for example, or do something with those oil weep holes and spark plug holes then replate.
olddragger

Exactly digital, when you wear out a housing...its seen some miles in its time. Mazda wouldnt risk a bad rep by sending out a replated 100K mile part. Cracks will form with that many heat/cool cycles I am sure. Good point.

Yep Olddragger, that would be a major benifit in my opinion over a simple ported used housing. Much less likely to have a chrome chip.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g144/tdiddy1513/gay_thread.jpg

I think this has gone on long enough.