RX8s arent doing well, Bye bye new generation RX-7s :( [Archive]

RX7FD3

11-17-2003, 04:34 PM

I been doing a lot of reading and research and based on numbers I strongly believe we can say bye bye to a new generation RX-7.

Even though mazda is doing great selling RX-8s, just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures.

Im not really sure what to say or think, even though i strongly think the RX-8 is a great vehicle, if the numbers in claims keep raising due to engine or tranny failures, im pretty sure mazda/ford can say bye bye to bringing in a new generation RX-7.

Insurance claims to replace broken RX-8s is a similar situation as when the third generation RX-7. Even though RX-7 were being sold for $42.000 - $55.000 and a good chunk of money came in, still wasnt enough to cover the money being paid out in repairs and insurance claims to repaid broken RX-7s.

Similar thing is happening with RX-8s. Today, they sell them anywhere from $28.000-$35.000, If we balance that with the amount of FE's taken for repairs with the rate and numbers increasing, i dont think MAZDA will end up making enough money to justify a new RX-7.

These are just plain especulations on my end, i dont know. What you guys think of this??

rxtreme

11-17-2003, 04:41 PM

I think you're wrong, just plain wrong. I don't have any real data to back this up, but I just think you're wrong.

rxeightr

11-17-2003, 04:47 PM

I believe your comments are quite premature. How many RX-8's have been sold? How many documented engine & tranny failures do we know of?

At worst, it is too early in the sales cycle to tell if these failures are isolated, or part of a bigger problem.

Speed Racer

11-17-2003, 04:51 PM

I thought that I read in the RX-8 book that even though the last RX-7 had problems Mazda still made a profit on the car over its life. It just didn't sell in high enough numbers to make the car worth the effort and at the time it made more sense to put that effort into the high volume models to get the accounts out of the red.

RX7FD3

11-17-2003, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Speed Racer
I thought that I read in the RX-8 book that even though the last RX-7 had problems Mazda still made a profit on the car over its life. It just didn't sell in high enough numbers to make the car worth the effort and at the time it made more sense to put that effort into the high volume models to get the accounts out of the red.

That is actually not true, The 3d gen rx-7 almost bankrupted MAZDA, That is the main reason why FORD bought mazda, otherwise MAZDA would still own MAZDA USA.

As far as number or data Im just guessing and i might be wrong, im just commenting based on how many cars ive been seing in this forum and how many cars have been taken back in the 2 locals mazda dealers alone.

Is too early to tell, you guys are right, yet if the pattern increases or even stays at the same rate, We might just have to face the same truth.

I hate to say that because i really want a new RX-7 :(

Gord96BRG

11-17-2003, 05:15 PM

Honest, RX7FD3, I don't have a problem with you personally - I'd be making the same posts challenging anyone else who came on here spouting such nonsense (and repeatedly doing it!).

That said - as far as Mazda is concerned, the RX-8 is a huge success. Their manufacturing facility is running flat out at full capacity, and they are still back-ordered for months in Europe (where deliveries are only now starting) and elsewhere.

What research and numbers? There have been plenty of numbers posted here (you always seem to forget that this site has existed for over a year, long before you showed up last week) that indicate that sales are steady, and there really aren't that many problems. I don't know how you can conclude from a few people here getting engine replacements (out of the 10,000 or so RX-8s delivered already) that this is a model-killing problem.

Regards,
Gordon

Ike

11-17-2003, 05:19 PM

I think it's all going to end very badly for Mazda and the Rotary. This is pure speculation, and I hope it's not the case. I'd love to see a new RX-7, but at this point I wonder if the RX-8 is even going to make it longer than the FD, hopefully the engine thing ends up being a fluke or easily fixed. If it's not a flaw with the design then I think the RX-8 will be successful for the most part, since sales seem to be picking up a bit.

Ike

allstate

11-17-2003, 05:22 PM

I've heard so much talk on this forum lately about "all these problems" the RX-8 is having. Keep in mind that this forum is dedicated solely for the purpose of discussing the RX-8. Human nature dictates that people will discuss negative issues much faster than they will positive issues. Just because there are isolated problems doesn't mean the RX-8 is a bad vehicle. If you visit any other car enthusiast forum whether it is the 350z forum or BMW forum you will find problems. Does that mean that those cars are bad? Not at all. Every make and model has its own issues. The RX-8 is no exception. Only time will determine the success/failure of a vehicle. So please...no more of this doom and gloom talk about how the RX-8 is a failure. Talk to us in 5 years.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....:D

Sin

11-17-2003, 05:27 PM

Problem free

Omicron

11-17-2003, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by RX7FD3
... Even though mazda is doing great selling RX-8s, just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures....
Oh Bullshit.

I'd love to hear where you got your numbers from. Exactly how may RX-8s have been sold worldwide to date? How many of them have come back for failed engines or transmissions?

Reading bad comments on the internet does not make the case, I want hard data to look at. Otherwise I think you're just being fatalistic.

Originally posted by RX7FD3
... As far as number or data Im just guessing and i might be wrong, im just commenting based on how many cars ive been seing in this forum and how many cars have been taken back in the 2 locals mazda dealers alone...

You're JUST GUESSING based on WHAT YOU READ ON THIS FORUM??? Oh jeez.

Come ONE folks, this is a BRAND NEW model of car, with a BRAND NEW engine design. You expect it to be 100% perfect from the instant it is released? There is no freakin way! Criminy!

If you really want to predict doom and gloom for the car, FINE, either DON'T BUY IT or SELL IT BACK if you already have. Just STOP trying to bring all of the rest of us, who love the HELL out of this car, down with you!!!

I'm sorry, this is not personal at RX7FD3 or Ike WRX, I'm just getting tired of people who consistantly bash the car.

Ike

11-17-2003, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by allstate
I've heard so much talk on this forum lately about "all these problems" the RX-8 is having. Keep in mind that this forum is dedicated solely for the purpose of discussing the RX-8. Human nature dictates that people will discuss negative issues much faster than they will positive issues. Just because there are isolated problems doesn't mean the RX-8 is a bad vehicle. If you visit any other car enthusiast forum whether it is the 350z forum or BMW forum you will find problems. Does that mean that those cars are bad? Not at all. Every make and model has its own issues. The RX-8 is no exception. Only time will determine the success/failure of a vehicle. So please...no more of this doom and gloom talk about how the RX-8 is a failure. Talk to us in 5 years.

Now back to our reguarly scheduled programming....:D

Agreed, lets close the thread and open it again in 5 years :p I do however think the engine issue is more than just first year problems that most cars experience. Besides we're just going to get a bunch of responses from RX-8 owners that have had their car a whopping 5k miles and haven't had any problems...

Literatii

11-17-2003, 05:33 PM

What I think is this: you don't post any references to any information that forms the basis of your speculations (which are confusingly stated in factual form).

just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures.

This sounds ridiculous... where are you getting this info from?

Gyro

11-17-2003, 05:38 PM

Anyone should know that engine failures reported on this forum are a very poor representation of how good or bad the RX8 rollout has been thus far.

Like I have said in other posts when people get all worked up over posts explaining someones bad experiences..........

Before message boards were around, there would be no way of knowing that a guy in Bangor Maine had an engine failure or a bad tranny showed up in Australia. It is the very nature of this format that shows "random" data. It is by no means scientific, and should not be interpreted as a problem in manufacturing. I would venture to guess that the RX8 is considered a success even in a quality control standpoint.

It would never occur to me to make a post that basically said that the RX8 has been plagued with issues in its short life as a production vehicle. First of all.....a message board is RX7FD's source of data......enough said on that.

Those who are here to be constructive, learn and share knowlege that they know to be accurate, are an asset to the forum. Those few who want to be "the messenger" of information, but really know very little about the very car this forum is supposed to be about, are bringing the level of quality down for everyone.

ProtoConVert

11-17-2003, 06:02 PM

Where is your data?

also, i dont think the rx8 is FE. isnt it SE?

RX7FD3

11-17-2003, 06:20 PM

Gee, i didnt mean to piss anyone off. I didnt state facts, i clearly said "it seems" and i said is my own opinion and i also said that this is solely based on the number of RX-8s going bad on the forum.

Calm down you guys, damn. Rotary owners have been known for being nice and not stock up or aggresive towards outsiders. I keep getting that feeling in this forum.

Anyways going back to the topic. It was just especulations on my end and i said that more than once so i wouldnt get this type of verbal assalt from forum members.

I really like the RX-8 and I am an RX-7 owner who will be buying an RX-8 as well. No reason to get nasty with me.

I agree, is too early in the game to come up with numbers or especulations, 4-5 years down the road it would be fair thing to look at, The purpose of this thread is to seek for opinion on this matter or may be even feedback of those whose cars have gone down.

Opinion is appreciated. Thank you or are we all here to see who answers threads in the most nastiest way possible.?

MEGAREDS

11-17-2003, 06:28 PM

RX7FD3, your heading is deceptive...

It implied that you had actual information, not just speculation. For those like me, that don't always read the posts, please change it to something more accurate like, "Why I think the RX8s arent doing well and why there will be no new generation RX-7s :("

ranger4277

11-17-2003, 06:55 PM

My RX-8 is friggin' perfect. An ECU reflash is the only thing I would change. Reliability isn't an issue with my particular car.

One case of bad news is worth 1000 cases of good news. (Nobody complains when there isn't anything wrong)

RaidenSky

11-17-2003, 07:13 PM

I think it's all going to end very badly for Mazda and the Rotary.This is pure speculation, and I hope it's not the case. I'd love to see a new RX-7, but at this point I wonder if the RX-8 is even going to make it longer than the FD

I do however think the engine issue is more than just first year problems that most cars experience. Besides we're just going to get a bunch of responses from RX-8 owners that have had their car a whopping 5k miles and haven't had any problems...

IkeWRX and SkylineManiac ought to be brothers. They make little compliments about the RX-8 to avoid getting totally flamed while throwing in unsupported, negative comments about the RX-8 in what seems like some attempt to convince us our cars are crap.

rxtreme

11-17-2003, 07:17 PM

That was me that posted the above message, not RaidenSky

Captain_Ron

11-17-2003, 07:18 PM

Backorder in Europe? LOL? That must be a joke?

Who in Europe would buy a 18L/100km! They would have to price the RX8 at $5,000 Euro for anyone to buy it.

This summer I went to Europe, and half of what I saw is either diesel or economic gas.

VW = All Diesels.
Audi = A3 Diesel, A4 Diesel, Avant Diesels...
Benz = Every Class has diesel except CL/SL/SLK I think
Toyota = Amazing diesel engines ect...

I was staying at a Hotel and Germany this summer, was talking to the owner about cars and he was complaining about his Passat TDI only got 5.8L/100km. The RX8 is 18L/100km.

If it sells in Europe, I don't know what to say.

People who have money in Europe just buy M3, M5, 5 Series, CLK, CL, A6, A8.

There is no market for the RX8.

Gyro

11-17-2003, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by RaidenSky
IkeWRX and SkylineManiac ought to be brothers. They make little compliments about the RX-8 to avoid getting totally flamed while throwing in unsupported, negative comments about the RX-8 in what seems like some attempt to convince us our cars are crap.

very well put. rxtreme

rx8daniel

11-17-2003, 07:27 PM

read the thread about no problem owners with high mileage. I say sham or non-rotary enthusiast.

Racer X-8

11-17-2003, 07:30 PM

The other car forums are gonna use this. Oh well...

Kev

11-17-2003, 07:38 PM

rxtreme

11-17-2003, 07:42 PM

I can't believe I'm plunging into this, but...
Who in Europe would buy a 18L/100km!
People who have money in Europe just buy M3, M5, 5 Series, CLK, CL, A6, A8.

So what about all those BMW 316's, 318's, 320's, 325's, and 330's
(not to mention all the entry level Mercedes-C and E class) I saw flying all over the autobahn/autostrasse in Germany, Italy, France, and everything in between while I was over there for 3 years? Oh, yeah, and I'm talking about those cars as GAS powered, not diesel. Not to mention a number of Opel's, Alpha Romeo's, and of course, the VW's that will compete in both price and gas mileage with the RX-8. These are popular cars in Europe and I'm sure the RX-8 will be popular, too, despite the fact that Europe's gas prices are insane.

There are many little 3 cylinder gas and 4-6 cyl. diesels over there, but there are just as many 4-6 cyl performance oriented engines/cars that blow thru gas just as much as the RX-8, if not more.
If it sells in Europe, I don't know what to say.

Say you're wrong! There is no doubt in my mind the RX-8 will be competitive.

Nubo

11-17-2003, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by RX7FD3
Gee, i didnt mean to piss anyone off. I didnt state facts, i clearly said "it seems" and i said is my own opinion and i also said that this is solely based on the number of RX-8s going bad on the forum.

Calm down you guys, damn. Rotary owners have been known for being nice and not stock up or aggresive towards outsiders. I keep getting that feeling in this forum.

I think people are getting the impression that you're here to pee in everyone's cornflakes. Maybe that's not your intent but just the way you make your points. I'm also concerned about some of the reliability issues reported but I'm not ready to declare Mazda dead. I just backed that up with an order. We'll see how it goes. I know you are just speculating but your posts don't seem to make a distinction between your gut feeling and objective evidence. The very title of your post makes a statement that you don't back up or even necessarily support with your own view. I think you're not getting your questions across and they're coming off more like statements. As far as your issue in this post -- the real question is what is the failure rate and how does it compare with other vehicles.

renotse

11-17-2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I think it's all going to end very badly for Mazda and the Rotary.
Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Agreed, lets close the thread and open it again in 5 years :p I do however think the engine issue is more than just first year problems that most cars experience. Besides we're just going to get a bunch of responses from RX-8 owners that have had their car a whopping 5k miles and haven't had any problems...

A thread like this one draws Trolls like Crap draws flies.

Ike, Just like I said before it seems that you exist on this board to discredit Mazda and the RX8 in any way you can.

What is your real motive here???

-=Zeqs=-

11-17-2003, 08:33 PM

It'll be ok. There are just some small issues right now, because this car is virtually a completely new design. Granted, the rotary engine isn't new, but it also hadn't been regularly produced for almost a decade. Expect some bugs to be present during the first several months to a year. What else can be expected when the first year buyers are ginea (sp) pigs.

The RX-8 will have the problems resolved, and the RX-7 will be back. Relax.

The saying goes...

"For every one problem encountered, a person will tell 10 friends, and they will tell their friends without giving a benefit of the doubt, when something great occurs, people tell maybe two friends, and their friends don't give a shit so it ends there."

With that said...everyone that's complained about engine failure, granted that's all true, there are a lot more people that have not had any issues. It just seems like a bigger situation than it is because people post when there is something extremely right, or the slightest bit wrong. No one will post when their car gets them from point A to point B without any issues, because that is simply expected.

Ike

11-17-2003, 08:34 PM

Maybe you should tell me the same thing Renotse, your whole purpose seems to be to follow me around and make meaningless remarks. At least I have an opinion and don't latch on to others for the sake of fitting in and going along with the flow.

Ask yourselves which is worse, someone that thinks there is a problem with the renesis engine, or someone that chooses to ignore the problems that have been popping up and claim the RX-8 is the greatest car they have ever owned after having had it for 1500 miles. Ask Canzoomer and Ito how great they thought their cars were before their engines went.

This is like the whole HP thing all over again. Everyone disputed the dynos and said the car is making 247 HP, I and others were called trolls repeatedly for standing by the feeling that the RX-8 didn't make 247hp. Do you think Mazda would have done a damn thing if there wasn't such a fuss made about the dyno's and other evidence by the non blinded RX-8 owners as well as the people that didn't even own the car? I have no motive to be here other than the fact that I like cars and I'm curious to see what's going on with the 8. This is a thread for where I stated my opinion which I clearly stated was speculation. Don't like what I have to say, oh well. Well here's what I think now.

1.) The car still isn't making the advertised 238 HP

2.) Mazda is going to have to fess up again

3.) There is a problem with the Renesis, at the very least on the early ones that were produced

4.) Mazda will have to fess up to that sooner or later

5.) Driving a car for 2000, 5000, 8000 miles without problems does NOT means it's reliable and trouble free, and you're about as qualified as I am to speculate on long term reliability.

6.) Mazda screwed up, and the whole car enthusiast community is taking note.

7.) One more big problem or screwup (I.E. the car not really making 238hp or the Renesis being of poor design) and the reprecussions could be far more serious than Mazda having to send out some gift cars and offer free maintenance.

8.) The rotary has proven yet again to be a better theory than it is an application. Tell me exactly what it has over the high input, highly reliable, more environmentally friendly 4 cylinders on the road.

9.) The rotary was great in the FD because it was light and made a lot of power, now it's not so light a car, it doesn't make a lot of power and is about on par in a straight line with a RSX-type S or 1.8T GTi. It handles great and for the people that bought it for that reason and will actually be tracking it and making the most of the handling good for you.

If you want to live in your own dreamworld where the RX-8 is the perfect car and all is well with Mazda and it's brand image be my guest. I however won't do it with the very car that I own and I sure as hell won't do it with a car that I'm interested in but will probably never own.

Ike

-=Zeqs=-

11-17-2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Captain_Ron
Backorder in Europe? LOL? That must be a joke?

Who in Europe would buy a 18L/100km! They would have to price the RX8 at $5,000 Euro for anyone to buy it.

This summer I went to Europe, and half of what I saw is either diesel or economic gas.

VW = All Diesels.
Audi = A3 Diesel, A4 Diesel, Avant Diesels...
Benz = Every Class has diesel except CL/SL/SLK I think
Toyota = Amazing diesel engines ect...

I was staying at a Hotel and Germany this summer, was talking to the owner about cars and he was complaining about his Passat TDI only got 5.8L/100km. The RX8 is 18L/100km.

If it sells in Europe, I don't know what to say.

People who have money in Europe just buy M3, M5, 5 Series, CLK, CL, A6, A8.

There is no market for the RX8.

The Titanium Gray A/T with a sports package that I want here in California is on back order too. From Santa Maria all the way to Los Angeles, I have yet to locate a dealer that has one available this month for sale. Earliest quote I got was January/February.

The RX-8 is to Europe as those SUV's like the Excursions and H2's are to America. They are impractical for the demograph to own due to fuel consumption and fuel prices, but there are those that don't give a crap about spending the money because they feel that they have more than enough of it.

BTW, what types of cars have you found to be suitable substitutes for the RX-8 Captain? I'm in the market for the 8, but I like to keep an open mind with my options.

Gyro

11-17-2003, 08:45 PM

for me......I know this is one special car if people that don't own them are among the top posters.

I mean it sais it all when you have 860 posts on a message board for a car that doesnt exsist in your driveway.

renotse

11-17-2003, 08:52 PM

-=Zeqs=-

11-17-2003, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Maybe you should tell me the same thing Renotse, your whole purpose seems to be to follow me around and make meaningless remarks. At least I have an opinion and don't latch on to others for the sake of fitting in and going along with the flow.

Ask yourselves which is worse, someone that thinks there is a problem with the renesis engine, or someone that chooses to ignore the problems that have been popping up and claim the RX-8 is the greatest car they have ever owned after having had it for 1500 miles. Ask Canzoomer and Ito how great they thought their cars were before their engines went.

This is like the whole HP thing all over again. Everyone disputed the dynos and said the car is making 247 HP, I and others were called trolls repeatedly for standing by the feeling that the RX-8 didn't make 247hp. Do you think Mazda would have done a damn thing if there wasn't such a fuss made about the dyno's and other evidence by the non blinded RX-8 owners as well as the people that didn't even own the car? I have no motive to be here other than the fact that I like cars and I'm curious to see what's going on with the 8. This is a thread for where I stated my opinion which I clearly stated was speculation. Don't like what I have to say, oh well. Well here's what I think now.

1.) The car still isn't making the advertised 238 HP

2.) Mazda is going to have to fess up again

3.) There is a problem with the Renesis, at the very least on the early ones that were produced

4.) Mazda will have to fess up to that sooner or later

5.) Driving a car for 2000, 5000, 8000 miles without problems does NOT means it's reliable and trouble free, and you're about as qualified as I am to speculate on long term reliability.

6.) Mazda screwed up, and the whole car enthusiast community is taking note.

7.) One more big problem or screwup (I.E. the car not really making 238hp or the Renesis being of poor design) and the reprecussions could be far more serious than Mazda having to send out some gift cars and offer free maintenance.

8.) The rotary has proven yet again to be a better theory than it is an application. Tell me exactly what it has over the high input, highly reliable, more environmentally friendly 4 cylinders on the road.

9.) The rotary was great in the FD because it was light and made a lot of power, now it's not so light a car, it doesn't make a lot of power and is about on par in a straight line with a RSX-type S or 1.8T GTi. It handles great and for the people that bought it for that reason and will actually be tracking it and making the most of the handling good for you.

If you want to live in your own dreamworld where the RX-8 is the perfect car and all is well with Mazda and it's brand image be my guest. I however won't do it with the very car that I own and I sure as hell won't do it with a car that I'm interested in but will probably never own.

Ike

Ok...time to start from the top and work it down...

1- What method are people using to measure the car's horsepower? Chassis Dyno are the most common. Problem with that. Not all two dyno's are the same. How would I know? The PERFORMANCE SHOW, www.bottleblownracing.com, I work part time at, has a Superflow Chassis Dyno, perhaps one of the best dyno's available at this point in time. That dyno measures power at the wheels, which is DIFFERENT, from the flywheel horsepower which manufactures use to advertise their cars. Even with the wheel horsepower from that dyno, you compare it with a Dynojet, the numbers will be different, hell, compare two dynojet figures, they'll be different due to calibrations and maintaince upkeep.

2- Fess up for what? Mazda already did something very honorable by changing their figures to their retested figures, offered a crapload of benefits to those that were loyal and stuck with them. Honda hasn't done jack for all of the people that bought their Honda Civic Si's that have a claimed 160 horsies but only put about 130 to the ground. Even at a 12% drivetrain loss, it should be putting about 140 to the ground. Honda hasn't done jack for those that bought the 195 horsepower Integra Type R's that put 140 to the ground when it should be putting about 170 to the ground with a 12% powertrain loss. The list keeps on going, it's not just Honda, it's not just Mazda. Location, equipment, weather all play a big deal in the horsepower figures.

3- So there have been problems with the Rensis produced...ok...what new engines don't encounter an issue here or there during their early production time? They are working very hard to resolve the issues. For heavensakes, the old Pontiac Ferro's were known to have their transmission fall out, but at least Mazda is working on improving their issus.

4- You like repeating yourself to make your list seem longer.

5- My parent's X-5 that they've had for about a year has gone in the shop 3 times in the last four months because of a axle issue. Does that mean it's the car's fault? Nope, it simply means that they had a bad batch of parts. It's a fact of life when everything, EVERYTHING, is mass-produced on CNC machines these days.

6- A lot of businesses screw up, it's whether or not they do anything about it that makes the difference. Mazda is working on it. Why don't you go nag MOSS motors for making crappy superchargers that do not produce anywhere near the horsepower they claim for $2500 dollars. You know, those that leak caster oil.

7- Umm...what was the point of that post? Is that a threat? Scary.

8- It's a lighter and smaller engine externally. It's another means of moving a vehicle.

9- Ummm...ok? There's more to life than just going in a straightline, although that is fun at times too. You live a very dull life if you have so much time to stand on a soap box to complain all day long.

Hate to break it to you...no such thing as the "PERFECT" car. There are also a lot of cars out there that one would like to own, but will never get to, nore even get approved to go on the test drive, why don't you go bitch about those instead now. Bub-bye.

Ike

11-17-2003, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
Ok...time to start from the top and work it down...

1- What method are people using to measure the car's horsepower? Chassis Dyno are the most common. Problem with that. Not all two dyno's are the same. How would I know? The PERFORMANCE SHOW, www.bottleblownracing.com, I work part time at, has a Superflow Chassis Dyno, perhaps one of the best dyno's available at this point in time. That dyno measures power at the wheels, which is DIFFERENT, from the flywheel horsepower which manufactures use to advertise their cars. Even with the wheel horsepower from that dyno, you compare it with a Dynojet, the numbers will be different, hell, compare two dynojet figures, they'll be different due to calibrations and maintaince upkeep.

2- Fess up for what? Mazda already did something very honorable by changing their figures to their retested figures, offered a crapload of benefits to those that were loyal and stuck with them. Honda hasn't done jack for all of the people that bought their Honda Civic Si's that have a claimed 160 horsies but only put about 130 to the ground. Even at a 12% drivetrain loss, it should be putting about 140 to the ground. Honda hasn't done jack for those that bought the 195 horsepower Integra Type R's that put 140 to the ground when it should be putting about 170 to the ground with a 12% powertrain loss. The list keeps on going, it's not just Honda, it's not just Mazda. Location, equipment, weather all play a big deal in the horsepower figures.

3- So there have been problems with the Rensis produced...ok...what new engines don't encounter an issue here or there during their early production time? They are working very hard to resolve the issues. For heavensakes, the old Pontiac Ferro's were known to have their transmission fall out, but at least Mazda is working on improving their issus.

4- You like repeating yourself to make your list seem longer.

5- My parent's X-5 that they've had for about a year has gone in the shop 3 times in the last four months because of a axle issue. Does that mean it's the car's fault? Nope, it simply means that they had a bad batch of parts. It's a fact of life when everything, EVERYTHING, is mass-produced on CNC machines these days.

6- A lot of businesses screw up, it's whether or not they do anything about it that makes the difference. Mazda is working on it. Why don't you go nag MOSS motors for making crappy superchargers that do not produce anywhere near the horsepower they claim for $2500 dollars. You know, those that leak caster oil.

7- Umm...what was the point of that post? Is that a threat? Scary.

8- It's a lighter and smaller engine externally. It's another means of moving a vehicle.

9- Ummm...ok? There's more to life than just going in a straightline, although that is fun at times too. You live a very dull life if you have so much time to stand on a soap box to complain all day long.

Hate to break it to you...no such thing as the "PERFECT" car. There are also a lot of cars out there that one would like to own, but will never get to, nore even get approved to go on the test drive, why don't you go bitch about those instead now. Bub-bye.

1.) The same argument people made the first time around. I fully understand how a dyno works and all the dynos so far point to a 20% or more powertrain loss in order for the car to really be making 238 HP.

2.) The current figures are still too high, the car is really making in the area of 220 to 230 tops. We're not talking about Honda, we're talking about Mazda. Honda wasn't on shakey ground like Mazda is and probably never will be.

3.) What makes you so sure Mazda is working hard to resolve the issues, according to you and many others there are no issues... So which is it?

4.) Yes

5.) Axle issues and engine issues are a very different thing, plus BMW has never been know for their reliablity. BMW is facing some problems as well that may end up leading to some hard times. Reliability and design issues in particular.

6.) It's just not that simple, what they may end up doing to resolve it is scrap the RX-8 and rotary all together. You like to repeat yourself to make it seem like you have more to say don't you?

7.) Not a threat, simply saying another screw up could mean more financial problems for Mazda and an even more tarnished brand image.

8.) Prove to me it's lighter, because I don't think it really is lighter than most of the 4 cylinders being put in sporty cars today. If it is lighter it sure as hell isn't by much.

9.) My life isn't dull and it doesn't take much time to respond to posts on a message board, especially when I'm doing it while doing other things (Go Steelers!).

I agree there is no perfect car, but perhaps you should direct that to the other 8 owners moreso than me.

Ike

Kev

11-17-2003, 09:26 PM

Just ignore these trolls. The more you respond the bigger hard on they get and the more they'll post.

If you ignore them, they'll get bored. Better still put them on you're ignore list. If they ever do find anything worth saying - it'll be in a vacuum.

To me, the biggest frustration is when the entire post of someone on my ignore list is quoted. I wish the application behind this site was smart enough to identify those quoted passages as well :)

-=Zeqs=-

11-17-2003, 09:32 PM

RX7FD3

11-17-2003, 09:35 PM

Gee, this thread was started to get imput on owner about the issues of them going back to the dealer to get things fixed. and the amount of these issues va the amount of cars sold.

The RX-8 is a great machine, handling, looks and versatility. Mazda or any car company will have their bugs on new cars, It took them 2 years before they came up witha decent batch of good 95 RX-7s and it took them almost 10 years to come up witha good RX-7 in japan with the RS, and RZ models.

It takes times, which we cant determine right now, is too early in the game. All we know for sure is that if they dont fix their bugs in the following years, it will follow the same destiny as the RX-7 and sales would probably be kept only in japan.

In the other hand, we might be all wrong, and they might get betters and may be it will become a favorite just like the miatas did. Looks at miatas now, they have a MAZDASPEED Miata coming up.

All is left for owners to do is just support the car, the scene, the rotary community, obviously take care of your cars while they are in the break in time period of your engines.

Ive seen owner driver their cars run hard as hell, some even trying to see how fast it goes without even waiting for engines to breakin. All of this comes into count when judging a car vs warranty claims. All other people see is warranty numbers, they dont see how bad users treat their cars.

Lets face. we all get carried away with brand new cars in one way or another, Ive gone through that, we all do. We all drive our cars like we are invincible and nobody cant stop us and somewhat affects why cars are breakin with low miles. Some owners can be responsable for this but im not here to blame or judge. Lets just not get carried away, Same thing happened when EVOS came tothe US. owners thought they were unstopable with their cars, and we all saw that within the first 2 weeks, the amount of trashed cars almost equaled the amount of cars sold.

Skyline Maniac

11-17-2003, 09:39 PM

Jesus Christ~ The RX-8 is a success in Japan, and Mazda is geared toward Japanese consumers. The RX-8 might not have loads of power, but its handling really shines. In the 21st century wnd coming of the muscle sport car era, it's a rare gem. I hardly think the RX-8 is a failure, even thought I think they should sell it cheaper. The attention RX-8 has been getting in Japan has been very good, which is no doubt good news for future RX-7 fans. Mazda has no reason NOT to introduce the RX-7, they got the engine, the platform, the fanaticism~ Mazda also knows damn well that they need a new icon for themselves. FE will be here~ count on it.

renotse

11-17-2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Kev
Just ignore these trolls. The more you respond the bigger hard on they get and the more they'll post.

If you ignore them, they'll get bored. Better still put them on you're ignore list. If they ever do find anything worth saying - it'll be in a vacuum.

To me, the biggest frustration is when the entire post of someone on my ignore list is quoted. I wish the application behind this site was smart enough to identify those quoted passages as well :)

Many prospective buyers read this forum. If enough people read Ike's deluded paranoid ramblings they could have a negative effect on the success of the car and therefore impact our resale value.

I am a RX8 owner and have a vested interest in the car, does Ike? Good consumer insight is one thing but malicious slander is another.

It's time the Mods put a muzzle on IkeWRX like they did Blue350z.

This would be a much nicer place without him.

-=Zeqs=-

11-17-2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by RX7FD3
Gee, this thread was started to get imput on owner about the issues of them going back to the dealer to get things fixed. and the amount of these issues va the amount of cars sold.

The RX-8 is a great machine, handling, looks and versatility. Mazda or any car company will have their bugs on new cars, It took them 2 years before they came up witha decent batch of good 95 RX-7s and it took them almost 10 years to come up witha good RX-7 in japan with the RS, and RZ models.

It takes times, which we cant determine right now, is too early in the game. All we know for sure is that if they dont fix their bugs in the following years, it will follow the same destiny as the RX-7 and sales would probably be kept only in japan.

In the other hand, we might be all wrong, and they might get betters and may be it will become a favorite just like the miatas did. Looks at miatas now, they have a MAZDASPEED Miata coming up.

All is left for owners to do is just support the car, the scene, the rotary community, obviously take care of your cars while they are in the break in time period of your engines.

Ive seen owner driver their cars run hard as hell, some even trying to see how fast it goes without even waiting for engines to breakin. All of this comes into count when judging a car vs warranty claims. All other people see is warranty numbers, they dont see how bad users treat their cars.

Lets face. we all get carried away with brand new cars in one way or another, Ive gone through that, we all do. We all drive our cars like we are invincible and nobody cant stop us and somewhat affects why cars are breakin with low miles. Some owners can be responsable for this but im not here to blame or judge. Lets just not get carried away, Same thing happened when EVOS came tothe US. owners thought they were unstopable with their cars, and we all saw that within the first 2 weeks, the amount of trashed cars almost equaled the amount of cars sold.

A-MEN! There are too many owners manuals with the plastic wrapping still factory sealed onto the manuals. I'm starting to think that the population do not know how to read, or at the very least, very intimidated to do so.

-=Zeqs=-

11-17-2003, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by renotse
Many prospective buyers read this forum. If enough people read Ike's deluded paranoid ramblings they could have a negative effect on the success of the car and therefore impact our resale value.

I am a RX8 owner and have a vested interest in the car, does Ike? Good consumer insight is one thing but malicious slander is another.

It's time the Mods put a muzzle on IkeWRX like they did Blue350z.

This would be a much nicer place without him.

My Titanium Gray A/T is on order, and I have no intentions of pulling my deposit. Ike can ramble, bitch, and moan all she wants, but until I PERSONALLY SEE transmission fall out of these cars myself, I am gonna continue trying to be patient and wait things out. Hopefully others will be as die-hard as I am...*sigh*

-=Zeqs=-

11-17-2003, 09:50 PM

Another thing...all of those that are so die-hard for the next RX-7, since it will most likely going to utilize the Renesis as well, be grateful that most likely by the time it finds itself in the RX-7's engine bay, all of the bugs will be worked out ;)

Magnesium

11-17-2003, 09:51 PM

I disagree.

With stories like these, you can bet everything is just fine.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/bown/2003/article/0,18881,536479,00.html

red_rx8_red_int

11-17-2003, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by Kev
To me, the biggest frustration is when the entire post of someone on my ignore list is quoted. I wish the application behind this site was smart enough to identify those quoted passages as well :)

I agree. I put IKE on my ignore list, only person thus far. And it would be nice it all quotes of his were also ignored. What's really sad is Ike may respond to this post, and I'll never see it unless somebody quotes him.

-=Zeqs=-

11-17-2003, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by red_rx8_red_int
I agree. I put IKE on my ignore list, only person thus far. And it would be nice it all quotes of his were also ignored. What's really sad is Ike may respond to this post, and I'll never see it unless somebody quotes him.

What does it matter if he responds or not? All he's doing is trash talking about something he's never even given half a chance to.

MuzzleFlash

11-17-2003, 09:59 PM

Well put, Zeqs

Hear, hear.

thered1996

11-17-2003, 10:15 PM

Rumors can kill cars. Start enough of them or pass on 'things you know' and you can begin to see the effects.

From 19 years of personal experience with Alfa Romeos -- watching the decline and fall of that car company in the US -- I've observed that the fate of a model or make lives and dies by opinion. My last daily driver Alfa -- a hotted-up 1988 Milano with over 180,000 miles -- got up every morning, had no body rust, and was exceptionally reliable for a car with that many miles.

Like the RX8, it had 50-50 balance, plenty of power, rear-wheel drive, and seated four (five, actually). At the time it was made, it would have been a major player had it worn a BMW logo. But in the US it met with little success due to being made by a much-maligned, Italian manufacturer.

Cars get their bad rep through inept maintenance and an ingnorant dealer network. Fringe-player manufacturers need not apply to the American market.

Rumors of the death of the RX7 are premature at this point. Hasn't the previous 7 only recently ceased production? Last year, Mazda released its 'final' special edition RX7:

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/public/200203/0325e.html

How a manufacturer fares in a particular market has a lot to do with it's dealer network. Alfa Romeo enjoys global prestige with the exception of the US market. Chrysler enjoys no respect anywhere except the US. GM is ho-hum globally.

Ford is a really big company. If it loses with the RX8 in the US, it will pick up the loss elsewhere. Products like the new GT40, the RX8, and the Aston Martins serve to improve Ford's image among 'people who know' things about cars and who-makes-what. None of these models MAKE them any real money. All serve to sell more Expeditions in the US, and Focii and 3's & 6's globally.

'People who know' things about cars and engines revere the rotary as an amazing, although fringe, piece of technology. It's a flat cool thing to be able to point to our cars and state, 'and, yeah, the engine redlines at 9000 and has three moving parts' (PLEASE don't flame me on THAT...it has 3 MAJOR moving parts -- I know about seals and oil pumps, etc.) How many of you have seen the NSU Spider with the Wankel sitting in the auto museum in Stuttgart, Germany? People love this engine!

Personally, I believe that the Renesis is flawed, Mazda will correct it and I'll see a new, 0-miles engine in my RX8 before it runs out its warantee. The more smiling RX8 owners Ford has, the better, I would imgaine. Even if our car is a 'loss leader' for the mother ship, Ford.

- Eric H., Marietta, GA
2004 RX8 titanium
1976 Alfa Romeo Spider
no SUVs, yet I have 2 kids!

RX7FD3

11-17-2003, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by thered1996
Rumors can kill cars. Start enough of them or pass on 'things you know' and you can begin to see the effects.
!

Amen to that, Is upon us to give this car the glory it derserves, it has certain flaws, but every car that hits the market does. Its upon owners, publicity and actualy buyers and number of units sold that counts.

Thats why i created this thread, to give our imput about everything we love about our cars, postive things, things arent posted elsewhere because we are so focused in the few vehicles that came with defect, LEts reflect the big pictures and post the big image about rotary vehicles, rx8 and the community

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14794

Ike

11-17-2003, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
What does it matter if he responds or not? All he's doing is trash talking about something he's never even given half a chance to.

I test drove it twice. Not as much experience as you guys have, but I gave it a chance.

Ike

11-17-2003, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by thered1996
Rumors can kill cars. Start enough of them or pass on 'things you know' and you can begin to see the effects.

From 19 years of personal experience with Alfa Romeos -- watching the decline and fall of that car company in the US -- I've observed that the fate of a model or make lives and dies by opinion. My last daily driver Alfa -- a hotted-up 1988 Milano with over 180,000 miles -- got up every morning, had no body rust, and was exceptionally reliable for a car with that many miles.

Like the RX8, it had 50-50 balance, plenty of power, rear-wheel drive, and seated four (five, actually). At the time it was made, it would have been a major player had it worn a BMW logo. But in the US it met with little success due to being made by a much-maligned, Italian manufacturer.

Cars get their bad rep through inept maintenance and an ingnorant dealer network. Fringe-player manufacturers need not apply to the American market.

Rumors of the death of the RX7 are premature at this point. Hasn't the previous 7 only recently ceased production? Last year, Mazda released its 'final' special edition RX7:

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/public/200203/0325e.html

How a manufacturer fares in a particular market has a lot to do with it's dealer network. Alfa Romeo enjoys global prestige with the exception of the US market. Chrysler enjoys no respect anywhere except the US. GM is ho-hum globally.

Ford is a really big company. If it loses with the RX8 in the US, it will pick up the loss elsewhere. Products like the new GT40, the RX8, and the Aston Martins serve to improve Ford's image among 'people who know' things about cars and who-makes-what. None of these models MAKE them any real money. All serve to sell more Expeditions in the US, and Focii and 3's & 6's globally.

'People who know' things about cars and engines revere the rotary as an amazing, although fringe, piece of technology. It's a flat cool thing to be able to point to our cars and state, 'and, yeah, the engine redlines at 9000 and has three moving parts' (PLEASE don't flame me on THAT...it has 3 MAJOR moving parts -- I know about seals and oil pumps, etc.) How many of you have seen the NSU Spider with the Wankel sitting in the auto museum in Stuttgart, Germany? People love this engine!

Personally, I believe that the Renesis is flawed, Mazda will correct it and I'll see a new, 0-miles engine in my RX8 before it runs out its warantee. The more smiling RX8 owners Ford has, the better, I would imgaine. Even if our car is a 'loss leader' for the mother ship, Ford.

- Eric H., Marietta, GA
2004 RX8 titanium
1976 Alfa Romeo Spider
no SUVs, yet I have 2 kids!

Well said, however lose leaders don't sit well with ford. Just take a look at the Thunderbird. However the RX-8 does have a engine that a lot of money and research was put into so it won't get scraped as easily.

sup3rbad

11-17-2003, 10:52 PM

Ignorance is bliss.
I love this car. I can't stop driving it. I find reasons to drive it. But if there are problems. I think people like Ike are just what we need. Otherwise we'd all be driving around on POS (pieces of sh*t) and not be able to do anything. I give homage to the rabblerousers that call attention to problems. I doubt Ike is here to discredit Mazda. On another note. I wouldn't mind if the RX-8 didn't sell well... I for one enjoy it when a car is rare (i think it's part of the appeal of the 3rd gen rx-7). Although it is bad news for the people hoping for the FE

Ike

11-17-2003, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by sup3rbad
Ignorance is bliss.
I love this car. I can't stop driving it. I find reasons to drive it. But if there are problems. I think people like Ike are just what we need. Otherwise we'd all be driving around on POS (pieces of sh*t) and not be able to do anything. I give homage to the rabblerousers that call attention to problems. I doubt Ike is here to discredit Mazda. On another note. I wouldn't mind if the RX-8 didn't sell well... I for one enjoy it when a car is rare (i think it's part of the appeal of the 3rd gen rx-7). Although it is bad news for the people hoping for the FE

Thanks man, I'm happy you love your car so much. I really have no problem with Mazda and think they make some great cars. My best friend owns a 6S and it's one hell of a car for the money , the 8 is great as well but I just don't get why so many people want to turn a blind eye to the issues. I orginally came here looking for a replacement car for my girlfriend and just have general interest in the car, I was left disappointed by the power and spoke out about it. I've been defending myself and other cars on here ever since. The people that have spoken out against me so strongly that I have a little hatred for the car at times. But overall I like the car quite a bit and wish it had met my expectations, which were perhaps a bit high after being so in love with the FD for so long, but also very leary.

I wanted the car to have similar push to an FD, not to a RSX type S or GTI. I also wanted it to be a relatively trouble free engine unlike the FD's, but it's starting to look like that may not be the case. Here's to hoping Mazda finds more HP and whatever it is the might be ailing the Renesis. I know the HP might be enough for those of you that bought the car, but I know I'm not the only one that was hoping for a little more thrust to go along with the great handling.

Ike

JeRKy 8 Owner

11-17-2003, 11:55 PM

Ill bet money thatthe Rx8s willbe more common on the streets by the endof next quarter like around March 2004. The G35 startedoff very slow in my area andthat is usuallya bad sign in Miami but after 5 or6 months passed they were everywhere. You cantgo for a drive today inMiami without seeing a G35 somewhere. WhileI dont think the Rx8 will be as succesful andpopular as the G35 and definitely not like the explosionof the 350z it will stillbe more commonthan it is now. Its only been available w/o a preorder for what like 3 months?? Thereare a lot of people out there who really love the waythe car looks and Ithink in another couplemonths it will really catch on. I could be verywrong here but Imjust saying that its waytoo early to determine if the Rx8s are doing well until atleast 6 or 7 months have passed. Justso you know I wouldbe happy if there werent too many Rx8s outthere b/c it would makeme feel like I have a rare car. I still only see two or three Rx8s a month. I know that wont last by next year.

New Yorker

11-18-2003, 12:08 AM

I been doing a lot of reading and research and based on numbers I strongly believe we can say bye bye to a new generation RX-7.

Even though mazda is doing great selling RX-8s, just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures.

You've been - oops, excuse me - you been doing "a lot of reading and research"? "similar numbers are coming back for repairs"? Please be specific. How many are coming back for repairs due to transmission - er, I mean, transmition - or engine failures? What percentage of RX-8's sold are coming back? Did you survey all RX-8 owners? If not, what percentage of RX-8 owners did you survey in order to get your "numbers"?
if the numbers in claims keep raising due to engine or tranny failures, im pretty sure mazda/ford can say bye bye to bringing in a new generation RX-7.

You're "pretty sure"? Again, with all due respect, who the hell are you? Please… refer me to some of the articles you've written for automotive publications.

Your post is written in a way that makes your casual mental musings come across as facts. My suggestion to you: do your homework and produce some numbers before making such dramatic pronouncements. Oh, and one other thing - learn how to write.

-=Zeqs=-

11-18-2003, 12:44 AM

Ioman

11-18-2003, 01:22 AM

So, I sort of skipped ahead through some of the posts. Apparently Mazda is planning on selling 1000 RX8's per month.

http://www.alljapanesecars.com/newsview.php3?d=14&m=04&y=03&n=5

They also have in excess of 1,600 orders in Europe according to this article:

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/031009/4/1rjlz.html

I just searched briefly and found these. I did not find anything negative. At the peak of the RX7 Mazda sold 1000 in a couple months. So RX8 sales are already betther than the rx7's.

cwerdna

11-18-2003, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
5- My parent's X-5 that they've had for about a year has gone in the shop 3 times in the last four months because of a axle issue. Does that mean it's the car's fault? Nope, it simply means that they had a bad batch of parts. It's a fact of life when everything, EVERYTHING, is mass-produced on CNC machines these days.

The X5 has a HORRIBLE reliability record and has had a boatload of recalls. If you add up how many it's had for each model year since it's introduction, it's at over 17 now!

I hate to break it to you, but automakers LOTS of parts from outside suppliers and don't make everything themselves, not even close. I was a Toyota plant tour in Japan (in Aichi prefecture) a few weeks ago and they mentioned they get parts from over 400 suppliers. I was also at a Nissan plant tour 4 days later in Oppama they mentioned 120 suppliers.

Bad parts DO matter. Parts make up your car! If bad parts (doesn't matter who makes them, Mazda or supplier) go on your car, and they fail, well, what do you usually take in? Your car.

On a side note, when I was at Tokyo Motor Show, I found the makers of the interior door panels for my Z. I found another company that made the shifter for it. I found the Calsonic Kansai makes tons of stuff for Nissan, like the exhaust systems, gauges for my Z, the HVAC controls for my Z, and so on. They make dashes for some (maybe all?) Nissans.

Back to the original topic of this thread... it's really hard to judge reliability of something from anecdotal posts on message boards. Someone will have some sort of problem on any car message board (I can speak to this from maxima.org and my350z.com).

However, it is a bit troubling that I counted 5 unique people so far on here who have had their engines replaced. Given that the RX8 has been out for only a short period of time (so people couldn't have put on a huge # of miles yet), and that 8166 have been sold in the US. It's troubling to see 5.

I can't think of a single person who's had to have an unmodded (or lightly modded) 350Z's engine replaced under warranty. Sure I know about the guy who blew out his engine running a 375 shot of NOS on stock internals, but he was insane if you ask me.

For comparison, in the US, Nissan has sold 32,461 350Zs so far this year + 13,252 last year.

However, yes, there have been numerous complaints of maunal transmission probs over there and I recall seeing some people getting their's replaced.

Ike

11-18-2003, 02:52 AM

I'm sure I'll get flamed for repeating this info but oh well...

If reports are correct from Canzoomer, the number of engines that have been replaced in North America is around 70, and this was a little bit ago so it may be higher. Mazdas projected sales goal for year end in the US was 18K so it doesn't look like they will come close to making that mark, however Oct. sales goals were promising and may carry steam into the next year so they can shoot for 30K anually like they are hoping for.

Tranny problems seem to be popping up on all types of performance cars, EVO, G35, Z, WRX, SRT-4, all are having tranny issues, I only know of a few trannys that have been replaced in the 8 but I'm not ready to call it a real problem.

Id love to see how Mazda (or any other car manufacturer) tested the original cars and how many of them they had for testing purposes, what problems occured during testing. Did they take a few cars and just drive the hell out of them for 40 or 40k miles to see what the end result would be? Do they put them in temperature controlled chambers in harsh conditions to try to accelerate possible rusting? Info like that would be really interesting to me.

Do car manufacturers with better initial build quality go through more extensive testing or is it more a reflection of how well they build the cars and chose the parts that go in the cars. Has anyone ever seen any articles about the things I speak of, I would love to read them.

Ike

shift_zoom8

11-18-2003, 03:48 AM

IkeWRX,

Ok eunuch, I know you like to think you're just another wine-tasting gay male who likes to be heard and pampered, but this time you've really outdone your pretentious, luxuriously supercilious self.

shift_zoom8

11-18-2003, 03:53 AM

And as for you, RX7FD3,

If you write "especulation" one more time, I will have to ask IkeWRX to castrate you. And, believe me, IkeWRX would love to do that.

-=Zeqs=-

11-18-2003, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by cwerdna

I can't think of a single person who's had to have an unmodded (or lightly modded) 350Z's engine replaced under warranty. Sure I know about the guy who blew out his engine running a 375 shot of NOS on stock internals, but he was insane if you ask me.

For comparison, in the US, Nissan has sold 32,461 350Zs so far this year + 13,252 last year.

However, yes, there have been numerous complaints of maunal transmission probs over there and I recall seeing some people getting their's replaced.

Not flaming, but if you consider the G35 a Nissan 350, since they share pretty much the same power plant, then two have gone in for engine replacements. A guy in Camarillo, CA blew a head gasket on a dyno run with 100 shots of nitrous. A blown head gasket, and he got a new engine, transmission, clutch...ya...under warranty. A big over-kill on the warranty if you ask me, but hey, good customer service, even though the guy didn't deserve it.

The Infiniti G35 and Nissan 350's have very sturdy power plants, but that is due to their years and years of engine technology refinement. Since Nissan has not had to put their piston engines on the back burners for close to a decade like Mazda has.

-=Zeqs=-

11-18-2003, 04:13 AM

Well...the issue with Mazda, as it may seem...they have produced a crapload of 6 speeds, and not many A/T's. I don't blame them because they are trying to sell it as a sports car, and true sports cars should be stick shift, however, there are a lot of people that simply love the body style, but cannot afford to get a stick shift car, due to lack of driving experience, and traffic in their geographical area. On top of that...most of their cars are "LOADED", which puts the cars out of the price range that a good portion of people are willing to spend.

To their benefit though, they have enough of a cult following as is, that is willing to wait for their desired cars to the point that they order them with a 2 month wait. My girlfriend and myself being on the list. I know of several other users waiting for their cars to arrive as well with money deposited and everything.

DMRH

11-18-2003, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by RX7FD3
That is actually not true, The 3d gen rx-7 almost bankrupted MAZDA, That is the main reason why FORD bought mazda, otherwise MAZDA would still own MAZDA USA.

As far as number or data Im just guessing and i might be wrong, im just commenting based on how many cars ive been seing in this forum and how many cars have been taken back in the 2 locals mazda dealers alone.

Is too early to tell, you guys are right, yet if the pattern increases or even stays at the same rate, We might just have to face the same truth.

I hate to say that because i really want a new RX-7 :(

Wow, a lot of wrong info getting posted here.

The FD RX-7 (92-02) didn't (nearly) bankrupt Mazda.

Mazda's mass expansion at the end of the Japanese economic bubble did that. Read the late 80's. The FD RX-7 was the right car at the wrong time. Plus overpriced to boot.

Mazda tried to do what Toyota did with the Lexus channel & opened a string of brand names such as Eunos, Autozam, Cronos, Efini etc. By the time Ford where forced to buy a controlling share in 95, the whole range was bleeding red ink. Ford simply said "Stop" to all no profitable cars in the range.

Thats why the series-7 (96-98) RX-7 wasn't exported to the USA & Europe. Thats why the JC Cosmo (90-95) was dropped plus other great cars.

The FD Rx-7 ran from Nov-91 till Aug-02 for around 65,000 cars.

Since starting production of the RX-8 back in MAY-03, Mazda have sold 37,500 of them till the end of SEP-03.

So, in 5-months of production, the RX-8 has gotten past the half way mark on the FD RX-7 which went for almost 11 years.

Mazda should produce over 50,000 2003 models this year. Whilst demand should reduce slightly for 2004, expect nearly 80,000 coming off the line in 2004. Thats getting back to the huge sales years of the mid 80's with the series-4 (86-88) RX-7. In 1986 alone, over 85,000 FC RX-7's where sold just in the USA.

Mazda (like all major companies) look at the BIG picture, not the little ones many are suggesting here.

Sneakyracer

11-18-2003, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by Gyro
for me......I know this is one special car if people that don't own them are among the top posters.

I mean it sais it all when you have 860 posts on a message board for a car that doesnt exsist in your driveway.

Maybe it is because a lot of non owners are POTENTIAL owners and like to inquire a little bit more before dumping $30,000 on a car!

We dont wanna piss off owners but lets get real. Most of you here just wanna justify your purchase, understandably, and deny any alegations.

We, potential owners, are skeptical about the RX8 and rightly so. I mean Mazda has the right BAIT on paper, 238/247 hp, milage etc. It HAS the looks both Inside and Out, no question about that. But what if its only a good facade covering a lemon?

When we question some facts MOST RX8 owners all they do is flame and post STUPID arguments!!! That is the reality. Questioning whether dynos are accurate or not....pulllleeeeaaazzzee. Stating that Power isnt important, that might be the case for some folks but certainly not the majority purchasing a quasi sports car. How about Milage??? I have even read here that "after 20,000 miles the car will have the advertised power and milage" thats just MORONIC.

The Facts are there and some of you have faced the music, bad milage, broken engines, busted trannies.

If that happened to me I would be FURIOUS at MAZDA, NOT at the potential owners that post on this site to inquire on the car.

And yes, those who try to downplay the sitation only make it worse! Since the topics are lengthened and increase in frequency. On the street, the RX8 has a so so reputation already. Enough that it affects trade ins and resale of the car. That is NOT good.

gord boyd

11-18-2003, 07:34 AM

I believe in lots of research too and the risk is we happy owners
keep it too much to ourselves about what a groundbreaking car this is. We all have been asked by personal friends about things like driving in snow (a great positive response on these boards has been forwarded to my friend) but contrary to what sneakyracer is saying, I think en masse we keep the thrills to ourselves, we are a cautious lot. But the success of this car is building and it doesn't bother me (nor the engineers working on extensions of this architecture at Mazda) that there are doubters out there. And I'm not interested in debating this--I'm off for another fantastic drive.
If the jury still out, so be it. I'm happy to be a groundbreaker.

gord boyd

Elara

11-18-2003, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I'm sure I'll get flamed for repeating this info but oh well...

If reports are correct from Canzoomer, the number of engines that have been replaced in North America is around 70, and this was a little bit ago so it may be higher. Mazdas projected sales goal for year end in the US was 18K so it doesn't look like they will come close to making that mark, however Oct. sales goals were promising and may carry steam into the next year so they can shoot for 30K anually like they are hoping for.

Ike

Ike, where are you getting your numbers? They are trying to sell 30k cars a year TOTAL in the US in 12 months- not 18k cars in 5 1/2 months. Since the middle of July through October, they sold 8166 RX-8s in the US. So, in three and a half months, they sold more than a quarter of estimated sales for the year. That would be not quite 28k cars a year. Not exactly that far off- and since sales at first dipped, and are now going back up, I don't think they'll have too much problem hitting the mark. However, as usual, if you can back that statement up, I'll admit I was wrong.

And about the engine failure- that's less than 1% of all the 8s in the US and Canada with problems. And that's IF the numbers are really that high. However, aside from problems reported on boards on the internet, there have been no reports in the news, through Mazda or through any news agency, about these engine failures being a common problem. Don't you think SOMEONE would be reporting on this, the way they jumped all over the hp issue and the rust issue on the Mazda6?

This entire thread is really silly. Who makes generalize sweeping comments without backing them up? What's the point? Do you have something against the car? If you do, DON'T BUY IT! It's very simple. Do you people really feel the need to get your kicks from annoying people you don't know on the internet? You're not changing the minds of people who have bought the car (we form our own opinions, good or bad, since we drive it on a daily basis), and if you can't make an informed decision by doing actual research and NOT paying attention to speculation, you shouldn't be buying ANY car anyway.

renotse

11-18-2003, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by gord boyd
IIf the jury still out, so be it. I'm happy to be a groundbreaker.
gord boyd

"We will stomp to the top with the wind in our teeth."
George Mallory, 1924

"No one remembers who climbed Mount Everest the second time."
Na Nook

Let the doubters play it safe and follow our lead. The non-adventurous will never understand the thrill of blazing a trail or securing the ropes for those that follow.

"Because it is there."
George Mallory (1886-1924)

The most perfect reason to own a RX8

renotse

11-18-2003, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by Literatii
Unfortunately, I see this trend all the time on other bulletin boards for various consumer products (particularly electronics). I see it particularly on gaming boards with a largely immature visitor rate. What's unfortunate about it is that alarmists and demagogues can actually hurt a product.

If you see people posting outlandish BS that is not backed by fact, then I suggest you call them on it. New and casual visitors need to immediately see bunk de-bunked, because they might not have the patience to go through 5 or 6 threads to sort out the facts.

In particular, I'd like to call attention to this growing sentiment that I see far too much lately. It goes like this:

"So, now that we know most 8s are going back for dead engines or bad trannies...".

Get off it. Or start a real discussion with some facts and sources.

This was from a different but similar thread here on RX8 Forum. The negative propaganda on this board is approaching epidemic proportions. It's time for the pro-RX8 people and owners to draw the line a squash th BS.

Thanks, Elara for your intervention by calling Ike on his BS. it's a first step in right direction.

Sneakyracer

11-18-2003, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by renotse
I t's time for the pro-RX8 people to draw the line a squash th BS.

BS, tell that to the people whose RX8 wont start, to those who had blown engines and trannies and to those experiencing poor milage and performance.

Sure, blown trannies and engines arent high % occurances by nature but im sure but there must be some data that proves in some cars, like the RX8, is higher than other vehicles. That data is mighty hard to come by since mazda wont release it of course.

Poor milage is extremely common in the RX8 since most here are in fact experiencing it.

If you all think its BS well http://carrito.net/forums/html/emoticons/buttkick.gif , you are calling a lot of RX8 owners that post those problems here Liars. Maybe they wanted some attention and fabricated all these stories about problems with their car to amuse themselves. http://carrito.net/forums/html/emoticons/bs.gif

We, potential RX8 owners, dont like to hear all those problems because the RX8 is a unique product. It has a lot of qualities cars, like the 350z, in its market dont have. It has unique style inside and out, 4 doors, 50/50 weight dist, good susp. etc.

I would LOVE to hear that the RX8 has good milage, its realiable, has 205 whp+, etc. That would be great, since instead of debating the purchase I would be in the car without any concerns regarding whether the engine / tranny will blow. As it is now im hoping Mazda corrects the probems in future production runs and holding my purchase. At least until more reliable info comes in. http://carrito.net/forums/html/emoticons/poke.gif

allstate

11-18-2003, 09:29 AM

Sneakyracer

11-18-2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by allstate
THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! Are you even listening to what we are saying? All us owners are saying is that this "Mazda sucks...the 8 is a failure" talk is extremely premature and unnecessary. If you want to discuss the problems that the 8 has had thus far then FINE. Discuss till blue in the face. ALL NEW CARS HAVE PROBLEMS...for the last time. What we are tired of is all non-owners basing all of their information on these problems which owners have mentioned to conclude that the 8 is, in your words, a "lemon". And we are not trying to 'downplay the situation'. All we are trying to do is put out the FLAMES. We owners are just asking this....be levelheaded and don't flip out because of a few problems. We are tired of threads being started by non owners entitled "The RX-8's aren't doing well". It is extremely premature to call the 8 a failure.

Allstate, exactly, read my last line. Think you missed it... http://carrito.net/forums/html/emoticons/conf45.gif

again, hope problems get fixed in future production runs of the rx8. Unfortunally it takes a LOT of effort to coerce Mazda into making significant changes. Now more than ever, online discussions do get noticed. As evindenced by how VW has listened to the VWVortex Forums.

I havent said anywhere the RX8 is a failure, its just that its a risky purchase thats all. Not all samples are bad but a higher percentage than average are experiencing problems. The car is almost right. Anyway, if you know that must first year models have problems maybe you shouldve waited till next year to get the car.

And these problems are NOT exclusive to Mazda. Take VW with its huge window regulator problems on the latest chasis. Also coil pac problems in VW/Audi 1.8t engines. It took a LOT for them to admit the problem and issue TSBs and inform al ther dealer network to not question those repairs and do em nicely.

Omicron

11-18-2003, 09:40 AM

DMRH, you sound like you have good, accurate numbers. May I ask where and how you found them?

Kev

11-18-2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Sneakyracer
Maybe it is because a lot of non owners are POTENTIAL owners and like to inquire a little bit more before dumping $30,000 on a car!

We dont wanna piss off owners but lets get real. Most of you here just wanna justify your purchase, understandably, and deny any alegations.

We, potential owners, are skeptical about the RX8 and rightly so. I mean Mazda has the right BAIT on paper, 238/247 hp, milage etc. It HAS the looks both Inside and Out, no question about that. But what if its only a good facade covering a lemon?

When we question some facts MOST RX8 owners all they do is flame and post STUPID arguments!!! That is the reality. Questioning whether dynos are accurate or not....pulllleeeeaaazzzee. Stating that Power isnt important, that might be the case for some folks but certainly not the majority purchasing a quasi sports car. How about Milage??? I have even read here that "after 20,000 miles the car will have the advertised power and milage" thats just MORONIC.

The Facts are there and some of you have faced the music, bad milage, broken engines, busted trannies.

If that happened to me I would be FURIOUS at MAZDA, NOT at the potential owners that post on this site to inquire on the car.

And yes, those who try to downplay the sitation only make it worse! Since the topics are lengthened and increase in frequency. On the street, the RX8 has a so so reputation already. Enough that it affects trade ins and resale of the car. That is NOT good.

Justify purchase? Deny what? ... your spelling mistakes?

Tell me, did you survey the entire planet or did you some how use your huge brain to read everyone's opinions directly out of their brains.

Personally I think your IQ must be so low that you're in danger of stabbing yourself in the eye every time you mummy makes you eat your vegetables.

Anyway...

Does the very fact that my 8 runs perfectly and is heaven to drive means that I should, for some strange reason only know by moronic trolls, put up with crap from people that do not own the car and get their jollies by preening themselves everytime someone that own an 8 has a failure.

If every other car on the planet was 100% perfect, the non RX8 owning penis heads here, that bleat about problems with the RX8, could have a viable reason to crap on. BUT THEY DON'T!

Tell me, when did Mazda say that they refuse to make any RX8 that has a failure less that perfect under warranty??? NEVER!!!

If you own an 8 and you have a problem, tell us all. Please tell us the complete and detailed story.

If you don't own an 8 or have an interest in purchasing one and all you can do is crap on with negatives, then the fact is you are a jealous and vindictive pea brained fool that just loves to annoy people for attention ... the only other alternative reason for your nature is that you have a vested interest in running down the RX8.

Ioman

11-18-2003, 09:49 AM

To put things into perspective, just about every 350Z out right now is having probalems with major toe-in which is feathering the tires, wearing them down incorrectly, causing major road noise and other problems.

If engines on the RX8 were really dieing, then I am sure it would be in SOME publication that we would have heard of.

As far as the RX8's not starting, want to know what is really weird? When I went to my Mazda dealer to test drive these cars, they had about 4 dead ones on the lot! The salesman said they needed new batteries? Whats up with that?

renotse

11-18-2003, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Kev

If you don't own an 8 or have an interest in purchasing one and all you can do is crap on with negatives, then the fact is you are a jealous and vindictive pea brained fool that just loves to annoy people for attention ... the only other alternative reason for your nature is that you have a vested interest in running down the RX8.

BAM!!!

allstate

11-18-2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Sneakyracer
Allstate, exactly, read my last line. Think you missed it...

Umm....no. I am not trying to downplay the situation. I just am just not going overboard drawing rash conclusions from such a small amount of data.

Sneakyracer

11-18-2003, 09:58 AM

Kev, you are being an a-hole. Obviously you didnt read all the posts. AND you live in Australia. most problems seem to be with US (NA) SPEC Cars!!! so all these problems should NOT concern you.

Anyway, I dont wish any RX8 bad regarding their car.

btw, english is NOT my first language. I try to do my best. Lets see you try and speak other languages as well.

Allstate, cool. Yea, I think the internet is prone to make things blow out of proportion. But untill we have some real data and more info nothing will be set in stone yet.

I remember at first when people were questioning the Power of the RX8. Look what happened a rerating.

Anyway , i will repeat this again, problems are not exclusive to Mazda, obviously.

Kev

11-18-2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Sneakyracer
Kev, you are being an a-hole. Obviously you didnt read all the posts. AND you live in Australia. most problems seem to be with US (NA) SPEC Cars!!! so all these problems should NOT concern you.

Anyway, I dont wish any RX8 bad regarding their car.

btw, english is NOT my first language. I try to do my best. Lets see you try and speak other languages as well.

Allstate, cool. Yea, I think the internet is prone to make things blow out of proportion. But untill we have some real data and more info nothing will be set in stone yet.

I remember at first when people were questioning the Power of the RX8. Look what happened a rerating.

Anyway , i will repeat this again, problems are not exclusive to Mazda, obviously.

I don't mind being a "a-hole" if it get's my point across, MY POINT. I don't try and generalise and quote crap about other people's opinions.

I post my own opinions based on my own experience. I also credit other people's coal face experiences with the RX8.

I have NO time for people that read one thing, amplify it a thousand times, then bleed their crap all over the forum like they've heard it directly from GOD!!!

GROW UP!

btw, my dog can bark in seven different languages - but I take all of the advice he gives me on buying a car with a pinch of salt :)

Jhouse

11-18-2003, 10:16 AM

no body will ever really know until the years pass and we all see what happens.

allstate

11-18-2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Jhouse
no body will ever really know until the years pass and we all see what happens. My point exactly. If you are an owner and have problems...feel free to discuss. If you happen to read about these problems....don't panic.

allstate

11-18-2003, 10:58 AM

And let it be known that there are currently no recalls. This is a good sign. This means that all the problems (which are normal for new cars) experienced thus far are isolated occurences. A recall would indicate a more serious problem and something to look at more closely.

renotse

11-18-2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by allstate
And let it be known that there are currently no recalls. This is a good sign. This means that all the problems (which are normal for new cars) experienced thus far are isolated occurences. A recall would indicate a more serious problem and something to look at more closely.

One of the prime attractions of the RX8 when I made my decision to buy was the 4 year 50k mile warranty. It's a pretty low risk proposition if you can deal with a little inconvience. And they offer road side assisance and loaner cars to minimize that.

Most of these so called "POTENTIAL owners " are not giving these assurances proper weight. If they were, they would be driving an 8 and touting its strengths.

Some people are just bitter spoil sports wanting to rain the next guys parade. I wish the Mods would reign in the haters before some of the owners give up on the forum and take thier valuable experiences elsewhere.

ptiemann

11-18-2003, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Captain_Ron
Backorder in Europe? LOL? That must be a joke?

Who in Europe would buy a 18L/100km! They would have to price the RX8 at $5,000 Euro for anyone to buy it.

This summer I went to Europe, and half of what I saw is either diesel or economic gas.

VW = All Diesels.
Audi = A3 Diesel, A4 Diesel, Avant Diesels...
Benz = Every Class has diesel except CL/SL/SLK I think
Toyota = Amazing diesel engines ect...

I was staying at a Hotel and Germany this summer, was talking to the owner about cars and he was complaining about his Passat TDI only got 5.8L/100km. The RX8 is 18L/100km.

If it sells in Europe, I don't know what to say.

People who have money in Europe just buy M3, M5, 5 Series, CLK, CL, A6, A8.

There is no market for the RX8.

I sort of agree with what you say but my calculated number is 11 or 12 liters/ 100 km (corresponding 19-21 mpg). Not 18L/100km.

Still an inefficient engine design.

Those who wrote about "all those BMWs.." in Germany.. last time I was there, I was STUNNED. Really half of all the cars there are subcompacts, that you cannot even buy in the USA.

(Historic:) Did you know that Mazda had a 121 besides its 323 and 626?

Personally, I just telecommute one day more / week. That makes up for it. Wouldn't want a 121 nor 626 instead.

Ike

11-18-2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Elara
Ike, where are you getting your numbers? They are trying to sell 30k cars a year TOTAL in the US in 12 months- not 18k cars in 5 1/2 months. Since the middle of July through October, they sold 8166 RX-8s in the US. So, in three and a half months, they sold more than a quarter of estimated sales for the year. That would be not quite 28k cars a year. Not exactly that far off- and since sales at first dipped, and are now going back up, I don't think they'll have too much problem hitting the mark. However, as usual, if you can back that statement up, I'll admit I was wrong.

And about the engine failure- that's less than 1% of all the 8s in the US and Canada with problems. And that's IF the numbers are really that high. However, aside from problems reported on boards on the internet, there have been no reports in the news, through Mazda or through any news agency, about these engine failures being a common problem. Don't you think SOMEONE would be reporting on this, the way they jumped all over the hp issue and the rust issue on the Mazda6?

This entire thread is really silly. Who makes generalize sweeping comments without backing them up? What's the point? Do you have something against the car? If you do, DON'T BUY IT! It's very simple. Do you people really feel the need to get your kicks from annoying people you don't know on the internet? You're not changing the minds of people who have bought the car (we form our own opinions, good or bad, since we drive it on a daily basis), and if you can't make an informed decision by doing actual research and NOT paying attention to speculation, you shouldn't be buying ANY car anyway.

http://list.miata.net/pipermail/miata/2003-January/030857.html

There are some sources that say 18k and others that say 12k so depending on which you believe, but once again I'm not just making these numbers up...

allstate

11-18-2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by renotse
I wish the Mods would reign in the haters before some of the owners give up on the forum and take their valuable experiences elsewhere. Although I am not for limiting people's right to speak their mind, I agree that this forum is not as fun as it used to be. Remember the days when everyone was counting down the days until the preorders hit the U.S. shores?! Those sure were great!

Ike

11-18-2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by renotse
One of the prime attractions of the RX8 when I made my decision to buy was the 4 year 50k mile warranty. It's a pretty low risk proposition if you can deal with a little inconvience. And they offer road side assisance and loaner cars to minimize that.

Most of these so called "POTENTIAL owners " are not giving these assurances proper weight. If they were, they would be driving an 8 and touting its strengths.

Some people are just bitter spoil sports wanting to rain the next guys parade. I wish the Mods would reign in the haters before some of the owners give up on the forum and take thier valuable experiences elsewhere.

The only person the mods need to "reign" on is this site are the low lifes on this site to turn every debate into a mud slinging contest. There seem to be several people on this site that do little else but launch ad hominem attacks towards me and others that they deem a troll. There is no place on a forum for people like Kev, Shift_zoom8, Renotse, Russell, who couldn't have a debate if there life depended on it without calling someone names. It just goes to show you have no real argument and have to resort to calling names like some stupid highschool kid. But the mods don't have the guts to actually do something about it because they're attacking people that say something they don't like about their beloved car. If this were any other site most of the people I mentioned above would have been banned long ago.
I know if I were to say half the crap and make half the personal attacks any of those people do I would be banned simply because I don't stroke the 8 every chance I get.

Ike

Ike

11-18-2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by shift_zoom8
IkeWRX,

Ok eunuch, I know you like to think you're just another wine-tasting gay male who likes to be heard and pampered, but this time you've really outdone your pretentious, luxuriously supercilious self. And as for you, RX7FD3,

If you write "especulation" one more time, I will have to ask IkeWRX to castrate you. And, believe me, IkeWRX would love to do that.

I guess they're too busy moving threads around for god knows why and locking the 10th post of the day about some RX-8 sitting dead in a garage. Maybe they should be getting rid of crap like this, and doing something about getting rid of the real trolls on this board.

renotse

11-18-2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I guess they're too busy moving threads around for god knows why and locking the 10th post of the day about some RX-8 sitting dead in a garage. Maybe they should be getting rid of crap like this, and doing something about getting rid of the real trolls on this board.

Been SMOKIN again Ike?

Now your dissing the Mods. You really are full of yourself. I can see it is now only a matter of time.

BYE

bluesunlion

11-18-2003, 01:32 PM

Ok kids, that's enough.

Any first year car has it's issues. I've been following a couple of cars, including the WRX since it first hit our shores. There were broken trannies, there were lunched engines, there were people pissing in the wind on any nitpick possible.
It's a first year car. On top of that, it's "new" (although it's not a new technology) engine. It's a brand new car. Every first year car has bugs. Are the RX8's bugs terminal? Time will tell.
Common sense will tell you to take everything posted here with a grain of salt, good or bad. It's unfortunate that so many people just feel it necessary to pile on. Think first, post second. We'll see actual figures later, after the fact.

Maybe we should have a seperate problems/warranty forum area?

Toadman

11-18-2003, 01:46 PM

But the mods don't have the guts to actually do something about it because they're attacking people that say something they don't like about their beloved car. If this were any other site most of the people I mentioned above would have been banned long ago.Maybe they should be getting rid of crap like this, and doing something about getting rid of the real trolls on this board.

Thanks for the suggestion, Ike. Congratulations on your 1-week ban for trolling. See ya around Thanksgiving.

allstate

11-18-2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by bluesunlion
Ok kids, that's enough.

Any first year car has it's issues. I've been following a couple of cars, including the WRX since it first hit our shores. There were broken trannies, there were lunched engines, there were people pissing in the wind on any nitpick possible.
It's a first year car. On top of that, it's "new" (although it's not a new technology) engine. It's a brand new car. Every first year car has bugs. Are the RX8's bugs terminal? Time will tell.
Common sense will tell you to take everything posted here with a grain of salt, good or bad. It's unfortunate that so many people just feel it necessary to pile on. Think first, post second. We'll see actual figures later, after the fact.

Maybe we should have a seperate problems/warranty forum area? Finally, a voice of reason.

viggen

11-18-2003, 01:49 PM

... I can tell you that Ford continuously anticipates volumes for new models that are unrealistic given the competitive environment, particularly with its luxury and performance brands/models. For example:

>Lincoln Blackwood pulled from the market after one year, Lincoln Aviator pulled from the market after one year, Ford Thunderbird pulled from the market after one year and so on

I would bet big bucks that Ford/Mazda's volume projections for RX-8 are way out of whack with reality, they don't usually take the following into consideration when planning volumes:

>There has never been such a competitive environment for performance cars under $50k. Z4, Boxster, S2000, TT, SLK, Crossfire, Corvette, 350Z, G35 Coupe, RX-8, WRX, Evo 8, with more on the way like Lotus Elise, new Mustang, potential return of Alfa. A few years ago, this market belonged to just a few entries, now there are many fighting for the same share of the pie

>Second, let's not forget that the RX-8 is a polarizing car for many people. I loved the car he minute I saw the concept, however, many of my friends either disliked it or were wary of the car as a "true" sports car due to the four doors. I believe that interest and volume for RX-8 will build as people get used to it. My car continuously draws interest from people, even when parked amongst Porsches, Ferraris, etc... Amazing. Remember, it's taken the Mazda 6 nearly 18 months to begin achieving its volume potential

>Third, the marketing of the RX-8 is highly suspect. Consumers need to know the benefits - high hp, high performance, outstanding value. Instead, the marketing is focused on the rotary engine -- fine for the few of us on this board. However, the mainstream buyer who is expected to make up the majority of RX-8 volume doesn't know or care about the rotary, in fact mentioning it raises unnecessary questions for these people -- why is it different, is it reliable, etc... They just need to know the RX-8 is fast and powerful

Regarding the potential RX-7, Ford/Mazda invested too much money in the Renesis and the RX-8 platform to turn back. To make the product program work, they'll need additional variants from the RX-8s's currently exclusive platform -- such as an RX-7, RX-8 Coupe or an RX-8 convertible

Toadman

11-18-2003, 01:51 PM

Good post, Viggen. :)

Zio

11-18-2003, 02:40 PM

I love how if one bad thing is said about 8 everyone comes down on it with a ton of bricks.

Toadman

11-18-2003, 02:53 PM

I love how if one bad thing is said about 8 everyone comes down on it with a ton of bricks.Would you expect anything less from other car enthusiast forums if you continuously crapped on their forum or in person at a car meet? From a person never intending to buy an RX-8, read his post history and draw your own conclusions.

Elara

11-18-2003, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by IkeWRX
http://list.miata.net/pipermail/miata/2003-January/030857.html

There are some sources that say 18k and others that say 12k so depending on which you believe, but once again I'm not just making these numbers up...

Even though Ike isn't here to read this:eek:, I wanted to point out something to everyone else in this post of his- look at the dates on this. When it was written by AutoWeek, they were expecting the car to be in the US in May, so yes, they would have sold perhaps 18k between May and December of this year. However, since they didn't go on sale until July, the numbers in this link are not valid. So while he wasn't making up the numbers, he was using them to suit his purpose by ignoring the context and time of the usuage.

What a mess.

MadRonin

11-18-2003, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Toadman
Thanks for the suggestion, Ike. Congratulations on your 1-week ban for trolling. See ya around Thanksgiving.

I've been following this board since it's inception. I've been a member for well over a year. I don't post much 'cause I usually don't have much to say. But this just irritates me to no end. So I gotta say something...

I've read Ike's posts, and I personally have no problem with what he has to say. He's never come across (to me) as an elitist, nor has he said that RX-8 was crap. Nor have I ever seen him bash someone (who wasn't bashing him first) for his or her opinion. I have seen him defend himself against people who seem to jump on him simply for typing something. He's a car enthusiast, someone who shares a common interest. He's entitled to his opinion, whether anyone agree with him or not.

Ike certainly didn't deserve to get banned for anything he's said. Other people on this board (owners and haters) have said far, far worse and are still posting.

As for people who get rubbed the wrong way by what Ike (and others like him) has to say - ignore him. Don't comment. You're just fanning the flames turining a simple conversation into a big flame war.

Toadman, you're going to ban Ike for voicing his opinion -- an opinion mind you, that hasn’t hurt anyone – well, that’s your right as a Mod. I don’t agree with it, but I can’t stop you either. Personally, however, I think the comment that shift_zoom8 made to Ike (i.e. eunuch and gay) was despicable, and he should banned for it. It was offensive, and uncalled-for, and it shouldn’t be tolerated on this board.

-- MadRonin