Hey guys

I first would like to apologize that I couldn't get the video uploaded... I couldn't get a digital camera for this trip so I used my camera phone but I exceeded 15 secs so now I cant' send it over to my email :banghead:

Anyways, here are pictures of my engine bay, coils, and the dyno.

I bought the kit back in December but couldn't get around to installing it until about 2 weeks ago. The install was extremely tight and a pain because some areas were so tight but everything fit like a glove and the kit came with just about everything you need. Kit came with every bolt, nuts/screws, tape, clamps, and even written inside the pipes of which end was for which side. Directions were good although some of the pictures were hard to tell due to the black and white, but no biggy there.

The exhaust manifold came pre-built and my first impression was "WOW, that's a BIG turbo!" lol. Examining the wastegate, my tuner took out the 15lb spring and the 10lb pring and left the 5lb spring in there to let the boost controller do the work.

Well after about 7 hours of playing with the parts and fitting everything in, my msd coils didn't come in yet so we ran it with my new stock coils + 4 new trailing oem plugs w/ shims. Sadly... his dyno wasn't working so he uploaded the map that the guys at esmeril loaded and told me not to full throttle and to stay below 6k rpm and he set the turbo at it's laziest... 3 psi? lol. (such a tease to drive around for 2 weeks this way)

Well I got back today and installed the msd's and put a relay in so that the int-x would stop drawing from my battery with my car off and now i don't have to jump start my car every morning lol. (don't worry guys, only myself and one other customer had issues with this)

We started pulling with just the spring pressure of the wastegate (expecting about 5psi) but it ran about 210 whp at 2 psi lol. We tried cranking it with the boost controller but it wouldn't pass 8psi with that 5lb spring in the wastegate. I was dynoing about 270'swhp @ 8psi, then we lifted the car and put back in the 10lb spring along with keeping the 5lb spring in there. (guys who are planning to install this kit, keep these 2 springs in there, saves u time lol).

We did another spring pull now with the 2 springs in there and ran a base boost of 10psi. Ran 295whp with 258 tq @ 10 psi with it running still rich. We were excited to break 300whp leaning it out but as soon as we did, the car just cut us off as you can see in the graph.

According to my tuner, the injectors aren't big enough and microtech was reading the injectors to be running beyond 110%. The oem trailing spark plugs seem to be holding up well with the msd's but i'm gonna order colder plugs with bigger injectors and try again.

We set the car richer @ 10 psi again as you can see on the dynorun 18.

I believe this was the same issue the guys at esmeril was having when the car just cuts off at 6500 rpm.

My tuner says the kit runs incredibly smooth and strong and feels that the kit can run safely @ 15psi at around 380whp or so.

I ordered the bhr radiator and will look into bigger injectors and colder plugs... and to be continued....

As for the drive home, the transition was incredibly smooth and it spools up so fast. My car toned down nicely and it sounds amazing. I was cruising home at 75 mph on 6th gear and the car just goes~!

Without the turbo kit, I was dropping about 196whp with Aem cai, rp midpipe, greddy exhaust, agency power pulleys, act prolite flywheel, and n/a int-x.

Now I sold the aem cai and added the act hdds clutch, msd coils + 3 pin connectors, greddy oil catch can, turbo blanket, and 4 oem trailing plugs.

Thanks to Charles R. Hill for his awesome service, parts, and advice. The great customer service from Jason and Chris. And of course Dave @ KDR for his hard work.

Overall the kit is awesome... you open the hood and BAM it's in your face and it looks great. It performs wonderfully out of the box, but the potential is there guys. I'm very happy with it and I'm enjoying whipping it around for now with 300 whp @ 6750 rpm, I look forward to taking her up higher in the rpm and 350whp+ for sure!

Nice write-up. The engine bay looks aggressive ad cant wait for the bigger pics. Im going FI soon and just awaiting the install. Good luck with and happy tuning. Do you plan on extending to a true CAI? Keep us poted

Do you plan on extending to a true CAI? Keep us poted

the opening used by the oem system for intake is filled up by other pipes in this kit.

dude come out tuesday and give me a ride.....i may have to get a divorce for this

Why is it cutting off at 6750 RPM? Mysql you are able to hit 307 WHP @ 9 psi whys it so diff with this?

different turbo, different characteristics. Also there's a wide variation between cars in NA form, there will be similar variations when FI too.

I thought this kit included 1000cc injectors

^what he said

Why is it cutting off at 6750 RPM? Mysql you are able to hit 307 WHP @ 9 psi whys it so diff with this?

They are two different turbos, don't think pressure, think air flow (lb-min), that is all that matters. Two different turbos boosting at the same PSI will flow completely different.

Nice write up. I'm still debating if i want the Esmeril or the Greddy + MM upgrade.

Congrats Flyboi!!!

You should give me a call and we can talk about the cutout it does past 6-7000 rpm. This has to do with your DSC.TCS.ABS issue. Its happened to me at least a dozen times. I can explain possible solutions to this. It only seems to start happening after the first few runs on the dyno without taking the car off.

The injectors included in the kit are big enough to keep the car rich until slightly past 400whp. The reading your tuner is talking about is not accurate on the 8 because of the way injectors are staged, i believe its only displaying the duty cycle of the primaries which get to their max very quickly. Explain this to your tuner....its actually very easy to calculate the actual duty cycle, call me if you need me to explain.

Also, the maps as we include them w the kits are very conservative to prevent people that will not do tuning from having problems if the car boost higher than usual. They are very rich, this could be causing the breakup issue (I just noticed that this is what it looks like from looking at your AFR map after 6500rpm). There is a map that you can modify to adjust fuel based on RPM.

Again, Congratulations and give me a call so we can sort these issues out
:)

Chris

Chris....my tuner may give you a cal this week as well

Is anyone upgrading the primary injectors with this kit? The OEM Primary injectors are 290cc and when you upgrade the Primary 2 injectors to 1000cc you have to remove the OEM 380cc injectors from those positions. I was just wondering if anyone was moving the 380cc Primary 2 injectors to the Primary positions and removing the OEM 290cc injectors? This would help with the primary injectors reaching a 100% duty cycle.

Is anyone upgrading the primary injectors with this kit? The OEM Primary injectors are 290cc and when you upgrade the Primary 2 injectors to 1000cc you have to remove the OEM 380cc injectors from those positions. I was just wondering if anyone was moving the 380cc Primary 2 injectors to the Primary positions and removing the OEM 290cc injectors? This would help with the primary injectors reaching a 100% duty cycle.

Well according to Chris, the injectors that come with the kit are more than adequate so i'm gonna give him a call and try to figure a way to get pass that 6500 hump without running really rich

Why is this such a secret.....have him post in here in case I/others have the same issue and we donthave to call and bother him.....seems redudnant for people to keep calling....

what ems are you using for this kit? will the cobb ap work with this kit? if i were to get this kit would i be able to keep my mazsport ignition solution?

Congrats Flyboi!!!

You should give me a call and we can talk about the cutout it does past 6-7000 rpm. This has to do with your DSC.TCS.ABS issue. Its happened to me at least a dozen times. I can explain possible solutions to this. It only seems to start happening after the first few runs on the dyno without taking the car off.

The injectors included in the kit are big enough to keep the car rich until slightly past 400whp. The reading your tuner is talking about is not accurate on the 8 because of the way injectors are staged, i believe its only displaying the duty cycle of the primaries which get to their max very quickly. Explain this to your tuner....its actually very easy to calculate the actual duty cycle, call me if you need me to explain.

Also, the maps as we include them w the kits are very conservative to prevent people that will not do tuning from having problems if the car boost higher than usual. They are very rich, this could be causing the breakup issue (I just noticed that this is what it looks like from looking at your AFR map after 6500rpm). There is a map that you can modify to adjust fuel based on RPM.

Again, Congratulations and give me a call so we can sort these issues out
:)

Chris

Hi chris, maybe you can help me , I've experienced some issues after installing my hd act clutch and hd plate and prolite flywheel, the rpms at sometimes are 1500 and even 2000 rpms over the normal, I live in caguas, I also plan to purchase the esmeril kit but defenitely need to fix this issue first. Pm or email me with details so we can get intouch if you're in puerto rico. Thanks I have been trying to get a hold of rgonza, do you know him ? He lives in naranjito.....

what ems are you using for this kit? will the cobb ap work with this kit? if i were to get this kit would i be able to keep my mazsport ignition solution?
has to be INT-X

congrats flyboi!!!

but still no 400whp like they said

+1

on the 400whp

Congrats Flyboi!!!

You should give me a call and we can talk about the cutout it does past 6-7000 rpm. This has to do with your DSC.TCS.ABS issue. Its happened to me at least a dozen times. I can explain possible solutions to this. It only seems to start happening after the first few runs on the dyno without taking the car off.

The injectors included in the kit are big enough to keep the car rich until slightly past 400whp. The reading your tuner is talking about is not accurate on the 8 because of the way injectors are staged, i believe its only displaying the duty cycle of the primaries which get to their max very quickly. Explain this to your tuner....its actually very easy to calculate the actual duty cycle, call me if you need me to explain.

Also, the maps as we include them w the kits are very conservative to prevent people that will not do tuning from having problems if the car boost higher than usual. They are very rich, this could be causing the breakup issue (I just noticed that this is what it looks like from looking at your AFR map after 6500rpm). There is a map that you can modify to adjust fuel based on RPM.

Again, Congratulations and give me a call so we can sort these issues out
:)

Chris

Hi chris, maybe you can help me , I've experienced some issues after installing my hd act clutch and hd plate and prolite flywheel, the rpms at sometimes are 1500 and even 2000 rpms over the normal, I live in caguas, I also plan to purchase the esmeril kit but defenitely need to fix this issue first. Pm or email me with details so we can get intouch if you're in puerto rico. Thanks I have been trying to get a hold of rgonza, do you know him ? He lives in naranjito.....

this kit has to be run off a int-x??

does not HAVE TO BE run with an Int-X but it was designed with that in mind. MM has talked about tuning it with an AccessPort but it'll be a bit trickier due to Maf location.

think map vs maf tuning.

It would be pretty amazing to see this kit run off of the MAF with how close the sensor is to the turbo inlet.

i'm using the int-x guys

It would be pretty amazing to see this kit run off of the MAF with how close the sensor is to the turbo inlet.

it's interesting that they position the MAF after the compressor. I know some engine management systems prefer the MAF after the compressor to account for the hotter air.

I wonder if a flash tuner can compensate for the position on the rx-8?

Is anyone upgrading the primary injectors with this kit? The OEM Primary injectors are 290cc and when you upgrade the Primary 2 injectors to 1000cc you have to remove the OEM 380cc injectors from those positions. I was just wondering if anyone was moving the 380cc Primary 2 injectors to the Primary positions and removing the OEM 290cc injectors? This would help with the primary injectors reaching a 100% duty cycle.

This is actually a very good idea and its definitely an option. It is not necessary however and the primaries are pretty difficult to get to(not impossible just hard) so we didn't include it in the instruction. You'd just modify the entire load map down by about 25% and that should put you in the ball park for this change.

Chris

congrats flyboi!!!

but still no 400whp like they said

Just to clear things up a bit.
So far the kit has met its design goals. We advertise that is is capable of 400whp and we state at what psi it will do that, so far nobody has pushed it into that range(we will post a dyno soon, we've been working on testing other stuff on the car so we hadn't had a chance). We also state what range whp it will have at the "out of box" boost and at 12-13psi and so far these figures have been met.

Give it a little time fellows. The guy barely finished his install and he already got 300whp and without revving the engine or tunning the int-X completely(look at his AFR past 6500rpm :O). He'll get there, its just a matter of time! :)

Chris

Chris....so what do we have to do for the fuel cut-off that is happening in his sheet? My tuner will be getting ready to do everything in a few days and I wanna be able to let him know bc it seems like it will most liekly happen to me as well.

Chris....so what do we have to do for the fuel cut-off that is happening in his sheet? My tuner will be getting ready to do everything in a few days and I wanna be able to let him know bc it seems like it will most liekly happen to me as well.

It is not a fuel cut-off. It is simply the car being extremely rich. This on purpose from us to prevent initial problems until the owner makes sure that the car is boosting properly and that everything else is in working order after installing the kit.

There are two maps that will take care of most of the tunning. One is the idle map and the other one is further down and it maps ms(injector milliseconds) to RPM. The idle map will control the big set of injectors from 2psi up, this is where you would make adjustments to change the AFR's across the entire rpm range when under boost. The other map takes care of AFR'r changes relative to rpm. In his case Flyboi would need to adjust this map because he has good afr's until 6500rpm and then it goes rich. Messing with the boost map(idle) will not solve the issue because if he leans that out until he is where he wants to be after 6500rpm he will be too lean under 6500rpm. If he was rich or lean across the board but consistent relative to rpm then he would need to adjust the boost map.

If you or your tuner have any questions don't hesitate to call. The "Microtech" in the Int-X isn't setup like most Microtechs would be so most tuners will have to get used to it even if they have prior experience with Microtechs.

to flyboi: This made me think....your tuner might adjusting the "load" screen trying to tune the car and this is only controlling the primaries(normally this would control whatever big injectors you have) and that is the reason he is not being successful. The Int-X controls the big injectors from 2psiup in the idle map. The load map(and idle map under 2psi) control the primaries only. Again, tell your tuner to give me a call if this is too confusing and I'll explain over the phone.

Hope this helps,

Chris

ok...thats helps quite a bit for now. I've directed my tuner to this thread. So, if anything else pops up I just told him to call.

Who is your tuner?

The same place that is doing the Chicago Dyno day.....

www.performanceautowerks.com

Flyboi.....

any more news on the tune? Did you get everything straightened out?

Chris so making around 375-400WHP we have to push the car to at least 16 psi ?? or more

i remeber asking for a dyno on this kit since i first heard about it. i waited and waited to put out my 6k....and was almost ready to do it then my car was totaled. i come back to these boards once and a while just to see how things are going and am glad i didnt buy this kit.

ricky, What's with the bashing? Sounds like you have an axe to grind.

i'm not doing any tuning until i get the bhr radiator. (which was ordered today) Chris i'll give my tuner a call and relay the message and i'll also have him call you. (after 5 pm right? =])

i remeber asking for a dyno on this kit since i first heard about it. i waited and waited to put out my 6k....and was almost ready to do it then my car was totaled. i come back to these boards once and a while just to see how things are going and am glad i didnt buy this kit.

Sorry to hear about your car. What's wrong with the kit that you'd say that though? There's a hump to get over tuning wise but regardless, the car runs strong and smooth. You want that 400whp? you just need to do certain things and can reach it i'm sure. I'm just running low on funds so i need to save up for a few weeks lol.

flyboi, are you planning on going to the drag strip any time soon so we can have a time to see how much faster you are than stock.

STATED IN THEIR HOMEPAGE.....

SPARK BLOW OUT OCCURS AT ANYTHIN ABOVE what is it 13 PSI?? So....all that is waiting is the ignition upgrade.

This is directed to RICKY

Great to see the Esmeril kit getting into more cars. We need more FI RX8s! :)

I love the way this kit looks, the only dealbreaker for me is that it doesn't work well with the accessport due to the blow-through setup (yet). If it did, I'd be all over it...

STATED IN THEIR HOMEPAGE.....

SPARK BLOW OUT OCCURS AT ANYTHIN ABOVE what is it 13 PSI?? So....all that is waiting is the ignition upgrade.

This is directed to RICKY

I think its a relative hp number when the stock coils turn into garbage.

either way if your looking to utilize the maximum hp that the kit can produce you should look at upgrading your coils.

Im sure rays coils will be out soon if your looking for a good product thats going to be about 50% off what else is out there.

I have the mazsports and they work well also.

has to be INT-X

Nope.
Its just like any other system - if the MAF placement is properly engineered, flash tuning will work.
Its that simple.

That said, blow-through MAF setups are not accurate. That is why the OEM's do draw-through.

Interesting.
Deep in the back of my mind I was thinking that it may be that the turbo wasn't spooling well enough on mine, because of where it was, but now all the doubt is gone. this dyno and the power curve explains everything. It is great that it gets all the boost at 6K (for a track) but on a DD car, having sacrificed 1/2 of the usable RPM range makes the car plain boring. And I am not bashing the kit. Chris did an exellent job on engineering all the components. It is the choice of the turbo.
I am just speaking of my own experience having had the same exact turbocharger installed on my car. I drove with it for about a month, and took it off in favor of a different (smaller turbo), due to the lack of responsiveness.
You can argue my point all you want, but you have no clue what you are missing until you have experienced with your own behind the stunning difference and the fun factor, of driving the car with a turbo that is capable of reaching the full boost under 4K RPM and one that reaches it but 5.5K or even later.
Just food for thoughts.


Jeff, I suddenly feel like getting a cold. I need some of that Tylenol :lol2:

Jeff, I suddenly feel like getting a cold. I need some of that Tylenol :lol2:

Drink up before its gone!

This is actually a very good idea and its definitely an option. It is not necessary however and the primaries are pretty difficult to get to(not impossible just hard) so we didn't include it in the instruction. You'd just modify the entire load map down by about 25% and that should put you in the ball park for this change.

Chris


Chris...I relayed that option to my tuner. He is going to replace the 290's with the 380's. Think this will benefit in the long run with increasing horsepower. Or, am I just wasting time?

Chris...I relayed that option to my tuner. He is going to replace the 290's with the 380's. Think this will benefit in the long run with increasing horsepower. Or, am I just wasting time?

It's not so much about the power that can be produced. Its more about better atomization of the fuel and a lower injector duty cycle below 2psi.

Interesting.
Deep in the back of my mind I was thinking that it may be that the turbo wasn't spooling well enough on mine, because of where it was, but now all the doubt is gone. this dyno and the power curve explains everything. It is great that it gets all the boost at 6K (for a track) but on a DD car, having sacrificed 1/2 of the usable RPM range makes the car plain boring. And I am not bashing the kit. Chris did an exellent job on engineering all the components. It is the choice of the turbo.
I am just speaking of my own experience having had the same exact turbocharger installed on my car. I drove with it for about a month, and took it off in favor of a different (smaller turbo), due to the lack of responsiveness.
You can argue my point all you want, but you have no clue what you are missing until you have experienced with your own behind the stunning difference and the fun factor, of driving the car with a turbo that is capable of reaching the full boost under 4K RPM and one that reaches it but 5.5K or even later.
Just food for thoughts.


Jeff, I suddenly feel like getting a cold. I need some of that Tylenol :lol2:

6K? Where do you get this information from?:Eyecrazy: :)

Our kit spools at anything above 3000rpm. You even get a 1 or 2 psi from below 2500rpm. Remember that the dyno only shows the boost curve from the point the engine was floored. This dyno doesn't even show anything before 4k rpm.

From looking at the AFR graph I can tell you it wasn't floored until around 4200rpm and by 4500rpm it was at full boost(look at the AFR curve, they drop rapidly with boost). Where is the lag?

The fact that you have boost at 2-3-4 or 5k rpm doesn't mean your torque curve will peak there. You can't go solely off the tq curve to determine where the boost came in, it will still be affected by volumetric efficiency throughout the rpm range. You might have full boost at say 3500rpm and that will show on the tq curve but it might still ramp up gradually to where it peaks due to engine efficiency.

Just thought I would clear this up for the rest.

Chris

Interesting.
Deep in the back of my mind I was thinking that it may be that the turbo wasn't spooling well enough on mine, because of where it was, but now all the doubt is gone. this dyno and the power curve explains everything. It is great that it gets all the boost at 6K (for a track) but on a DD car, having sacrificed 1/2 of the usable RPM range makes the car plain boring. And I am not bashing the kit. Chris did an exellent job on engineering all the components. It is the choice of the turbo.
I am just speaking of my own experience having had the same exact turbocharger installed on my car. I drove with it for about a month, and took it off in favor of a different (smaller turbo), due to the lack of responsiveness.
You can argue my point all you want, but you have no clue what you are missing until you have experienced with your own behind the stunning difference and the fun factor, of driving the car with a turbo that is capable of reaching the full boost under 4K RPM and one that reaches it but 5.5K or even later.
Just food for thoughts.


Jeff, I suddenly feel like getting a cold. I need some of that Tylenol :lol2:

Is that accurate? I've been inside a greddy turbo'd rx8 and my car spools just as fast. This turbo is extremely responsive. It's full boost at 5.5k on the dyno cuz he's full throttle starting from 4k. Obviously it can't reach full boost at 4k or earlier if he's getting on it at 4k. We did the pulls in 4th gear where he would shift his way up to 4th gear, let the rpm drop to about 3.5k, lightly throttle, and as it slowly climbs to 4, he records and is on WOT starting @ 4k.

To me, it feels that i have the quick spool of what that greddy FI 8 owner had but with a harder kick and feel of the tq. Makes the car fun to drive, no? :)

Oh yea, guys, i'm driving the car like i stole it these days and i must say, my mpg is holding up much better than i thought lol. When i wasn't FI'd, i'd get about 220-240 miles til the gas light comes on with mixed driving and without WOT (cuz i had shot coils and plugs). Now i'm driving my car constantly in boost, giving friends a ride whipping it around. I still got 185 miles when the light came on. I'm curious to see... how my miles will be if i can resist boosting for a whole tank to compare LOL

^So when are you gonna go to the drag strip :)

Is that accurate? I've been inside a greddy turbo'd rx8 and my car spools just as fast. This turbo is extremely responsive. It's full boost at 5.5k on the dyno cuz he's full throttle starting from 4k. Obviously it can't reach full boost at 4k or earlier if he's getting on it at 4k. We did the pulls in 4th gear where he would shift his way up to 4th gear, let the rpm drop to about 3.5k, lightly throttle, and as it slowly climbs to 4, he records and is on WOT starting @ 4k.


Ok that's easy.
Turn on the log on your int-x with boost logging enabled, do a pull from say 2K rpm to the redline, and then save observe the log? Let's see how far you'll get on boost by 4K? Yeah it will show minimal boost by 2.5k or so, but then what? it shows still just a little more boost by 3, and a little more by 3.5K... and only past 4K it begins to come to life. Meanwhile you are sitting behind the wheel with your foot on the gas pedal, waiting... waiting...

If you read my post, 5.5 K or later is what I said it will produce full boost at. It made 14 psi for me at 6K. But that is 5.5 - 6K! Which is exactly my point.
And in 2nd and 3rd gear, on the street, when you just want to step and zoom through traffic, it feels slow because of it.

Please do not begin comparing this to Greddy. Greddy may be spooling, but it flows jacks squat.



6K? Where do you get this information from?:Eyecrazy: :)

Our kit spools at anything above 3000rpm. You even get a 1 or 2 psi from below 2500rpm. Remember that the dyno only shows the boost curve from the point the engine was floored. This dyno doesn't even show anything before 4k rpm.


From looking at the AFR graph I can tell you it wasn't floored until around 4200rpm and by 4500rpm it was at full boost(look at the AFR curve, they drop rapidly with boost). Where is the lag?

The fact that you have boost at 2-3-4 or 5k rpm doesn't mean your torque curve will peak there. You can't go solely off the tq curve to determine where the boost came in, it will still be affected by volumetric efficiency throughout the rpm range. You might have full boost at say 3500rpm and that will show on the tq curve but it might still ramp up gradually to where it peaks due to engine efficiency.

Just thought I would clear this up for the rest.

Chris



From looking at the AFR graph I can tell you it wasn't floored until around 4200rpm and by 4500rpm it was at full boost(look at the AFR curve, they drop rapidly with boost). Where is the lag?


he is running just below 11.8:1 AF all through. by 4.5K his AF is almost 13:1. he only comes to 11.8:1 by like 4.7- 4.8K. That is where the lag is.
See for yourself.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120810&d=1211068990

Not to mention that even if he is half way to his target boost by 4.5K, or even say 3/4 of the way (7psi) he is way too lean running over 12.5 - 12.7:1 AF! Assuming that the tune is healthy and conservative, i would say he is running more like 3-5 psi at that point. Thus the adequate power output.


Chris,
You don't have to convince me. T70 would be kick ass for using on the track. With it's linear and consistent spool rate... Perfect for high RPM runs on straights and coming out of turns. You made a great kit!

This turbo on the street however, the car feels heavy, slow and unresponsive. And the driver needs to down shift to get the spool going when you want to make a quick pass. That is just a fact.

I am not taking this information out of my ass and just throwing here to make someone look bad. This is the information that is based on my personal observation. I said what I said, because I personally installed, tuned and drove with one for quite a while in the street and highway (and "a while" means a month or so, not a couple of runs), then took it down and replaced with a turbo that has not as large and heavy, yet quite as potent compressor and a smaller turbine that spools 2x as quickly. It makes a world of a difference.

This turbo on the street however, the car feels heavy, slow and unresponsive. And the driver needs to down shift to get the spool going when you want to make a quick pass. That is just a fact.



You're not comparing apples to apples. You have a rear mount turbo system, its not going to act the same as a conventional setup.

^So when are you gonna go to the drag strip :)

haha yea, sometime at the end of may i will... but my tires suck

Ok that's easy.
Turn on the log on your int-x with boost logging enabled, do a pull from say 2K rpm to the redline, and then save observe the log? Let's see how far you'll get on boost by 4K? Yeah it will show minimal boost by 2.5k or so, but then what? it shows still just a little more boost by 3, and a little more by 3.5K... and only past 4K it begins to come to life. Meanwhile you are sitting behind the wheel with your foot on the gas pedal, waiting... waiting...

If you read my post, 5.5 K or later is what I said it will produce full boost at. It made 14 psi for me at 6K. But that is 5.5 - 6K! Which is exactly my point.
And in 2nd and 3rd gear, on the street, when you just want to step and zoom through traffic, it feels slow because of it.

Please do not begin comparing this to Greddy. Greddy may be spooling, but it flows jacks squat.





Chris,
You don't have to convince me. T70 would be kick ass for using on the track. With it's linear and consistent spool rate... Perfect for high RPM runs on straights and coming out of turns. You made a great kit!

This turbo on the street however, the car feels heavy, slow and unresponsive. And the driver needs to down shift to get the spool going when you want to make a quick pass. That is just a fact.

I am not taking this information out of my ass and just throwing here to make someone look bad. This is the information that is based on my personal observation. I said what I said, because I personally installed, tuned and drove with one for quite a while in the street and highway (and "a while" means a month or so, not a couple of runs), then took it down and replaced with a turbo that has not as large and heavy, yet quite as potent compressor and a smaller turbine that spools 2x as quickly. It makes a world of a difference.

This might be true in your particular setup but I will still have to disagree with you regarding whats considered big. The turbo we use is of the smallest single turbos to even be considered for rotaries. Our engine has had some changes but it is still a mazda 13b and it behaves as one. Other than the plethora of electronic systems and ignition deficiencies plaguing our engine it is very much equal to an rx7 engine. The rotary community normally will not even consider anything under a turbo of our size(.82 A/R exhaust side on a P-Trim wheel with a 60-70mm compressor) for going single because it wont do the job. It will spool sooner but the air it will pump will not be ideal. You will have to boost way higher to generate the same hp levels as with a bigger more efficient one without considerable spool increase.
Our kit was made with the daily driver in mind, not the racer, for that we would've used a gt42r that had real lag and that would've been a good straight line car where maximum power was all that mattered. I have had the turbo on my car for going on 2 years now, I have some boost from 2500rpm and full boost(at least 12psi) from anything above 3500. I don't think I even remember shifting the car under 3000 when I had it stock, now I have more tq down low than before. The people that have bought our kit can confirm this.

I am not saying your experience with a similar turbo wasn't as you state, I am just saying its not the turbo. It could very well be manifold design due to your manifold being different(runner volume) or longer. Maybe it is due to the long intercooler piping going from halfway under the car to the front that your system has to fill before it creates boost. All these issues have an effect. This is the reason our piping from turbo to intercooler and from intercooler to engine is so direct. The air out of the turbo has to go through less piping and fill way less volume before reaching the engine than other setups.

I agree with you that boosting at 5500rpm(or anything above 4500rpm for that matter) is too laggy for a street driven car. I also agree that you might have had a similar turbo to the one we use. I am just saying that our setups are not identical and therefore conclusions cannot be reached about one setup from looking at another.

Hope u understand what I am saying. No offense is intended.

Thanks.

Chris

You're not comparing apples to apples. You have a rear mount turbo system, its not going to act the same as a conventional setup.

A rear mounted turbo will be more laggy and less efficient due to the (1) head loss from pushing the air back & forth thru the long pipes and (2) the gas has more time to cool down = less enthalpy = less kinetic energy to spin the turbine.

If he used both turbos in the same place you would be comparing apples to apples. If he's comparing a front-mounted turbo to his rear-mounted kit, he's spotting you the pumping losses & reduced enthalpy, which should *favor* the front-mounted kit.


:djcelebra

well....flyboi....how is you spooling during street driving? it's your turn....haha

You're not comparing apples to apples. You have a rear mount turbo system, its not going to act the same as a conventional setup.

In my setup the turbo is not much further away from the motor than that of Chris's. and the manifold (if it can be called so) is heat wrapped. There is more charge piping, that is true, but I seriously doubt that 2-3 extra feet of 2.5" pipe would amount to significant difference. I sure doesn't affect anything on the smaller turbo I run now.

This might be true in your particular setup but I will still have to disagree with you regarding whats considered big. The turbo we use is of the smallest single turbos to even be considered for rotaries. Our engine has had some changes but it is still a mazda 13b and it behaves as one. Other than the plethora of electronic systems and ignition deficiencies plaguing our engine it is very much equal to an rx7 engine. The rotary community normally will not even consider anything under a turbo of our size(.82 A/R exhaust side on a P-Trim wheel with a 60-70mm compressor) for going single because it wont do the job. It will spool sooner but the air it will pump will not be ideal. You will have to boost way higher to generate the same hp levels as with a bigger more efficient one without considerable spool increase.
Our kit was made with the daily driver in mind, not the racer, for that we would've used a gt42r that had real lag and that would've been a good straight line car where maximum power was all that mattered. I have had the turbo on my car for going on 2 years now, I have some boost from 2500rpm and full boost(at least 12psi) from anything above 3500. I don't think I even remember shifting the car under 3000 when I had it stock, now I have more tq down low than before. The people that have bought our kit can confirm this.

I am not saying your experience with a similar turbo wasn't as you state, I am just saying its not the turbo. It could very well be manifold design due to your manifold being different(runner volume) or longer. Maybe it is due to the long intercooler piping going from halfway under the car to the front that your system has to fill before it creates boost. All these issues have an effect. This is the reason our piping from turbo to intercooler and from intercooler to engine is so direct. The air out of the turbo has to go through less piping and fill way less volume before reaching the engine than other setups.

I agree with you that boosting at 5500rpm(or anything above 4500rpm for that matter) is too laggy for a street driven car. I also agree that you might have had a similar turbo to the one we use. I am just saying that our setups are not identical and therefore conclusions cannot be reached about one setup from looking at another.

Hope u understand what I am saying. No offense is intended.

Thanks.

Chris

Chris, don't worry, no offense taken, and I hope you won't take offence in my responses either.

But to continue the discussion - On one of the conversations with Staticlag we somewhat compared the impressions of driving with his (yours) and mine (then a T7- powered) systems, and they were quite similar from all the aspects. He also confirmed that, what I say, that lag is/was an issue for him at some point.

Here is his exact words:

"I've found downshifting to cure the problem."

"Yeah I have found that the extra power has made me lazy also, usually I'm in 6th gear at 2-3K rpms and I step on the gas, and LAGGGGGG. All it takes is a quick downshift to 4th or 5th gear to get the juices flowing."

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2434610&postcount=304



I edited my response above (previous post), to reflect your point on the dyno chart (which I initially overlooked). Take a look, if you have a sec.

I don't know, man. What you are saying and what I experienced is way too different. MM's upgrade with a ball bearing turbo sitting on the greddy manifold probably will not spool to 12psi right from 3500 rpm. Although I believe it may.
I am not sure mine can do that. I am actually curious to try. i have a very very difficult time to believe this this T70 will, and this dyno made at WOT gives no solid points to your side.

I do have to say, that I have a high flow cat on the car, which may be adding to the after turbo back pressure, and affecting the spool, but just for the fun of this arguments sake, Chris, or someone who has his kit, find a minute, and do a Logged pull with T70 and post the screen shot of it? Shouldn't be a big deal. Don't even need to take it anywhere past 5-6K. It is the 2 - 5K that is being in question.
Log it with injector pulse with, boost, RPM and TPS. That will clear things right up. And I'll shut up for good :lol2:

A rear mounted turbo will be more laggy and less efficient due to the (1) head loss from pushing the air back & forth thru the long pipes and (2) the gas has more time to cool down = less enthalpy = less kinetic energy to spin the turbine.

If he used both turbos in the same place you would be comparing apples to apples. If he's comparing a front-mounted turbo to his rear-mounted kit, he's spotting you the pumping losses & reduced enthalpy, which should *favor* the front-mounted kit.


:djcelebra

Rear mounted, I agree, but having the turbo where it is currently. It is as close to "apples to apples" as it can get.

A rear mounted turbo will be more laggy and less efficient due to the (1) head loss from pushing the air back & forth thru the long pipes and (2) the gas has more time to cool down = less enthalpy = less kinetic energy to spin the turbine.


Only if it is the same turbine.
Air is air. You are just trading volume for mass when you lose heat.
There is still plenty of energy left at the back of the car.

I wouldn't bother, but its there.


.82 A/R exhaust side on a P-Trim wheel with a 60-70mm compressor

Welcome to 1994.

Our intercooler piping is about 3.5-4ft total length. Adding 3ft. of pipe length would be almost doubling the volume of air that has to be filled before boost goes up.

I understand that comparing your current turbo to the t70 it seems to have no problems filling the piping quickly but that is not an accurate comparison. Maybe if that turbo where in our manifold with our piping it would spool even quicker because of the same reasons. I know that I have seen at least 10psi at 3500rpm. I don't know how the mm upgrade does, I haven't tested it so I can't speculate on it, it is a different(not better or worst just different) manifold and dnpipe setup as well so it is not comparable either.

Either way, the kit performs and what to some is "laggy" might be quick spooling for others so this seems like a pointless argument since it is all based on personal perception.
What I do know from experience is that the turbo specs are only about 40-50% of the equation that determines where boost buildup or lag. Intercooler+piping volume, engine demand and volumetric efficiency, manifold design and volume, down pipe and exhaust flow and not to mention how many bends exist in each of these components, how abrupt each bend is, how well they are mated and welded are just as important if not more important to the determining boost characteristics of a setup. Any person that knows fluid dynamics will tell you that what you have on the entrance of a pipe or at the exit isn't the only thing that matters, its all about what happens through the pipe that determines flow, pressure, etc.

Chris

Only if it is the same turbine.
Air is air. You are just trading volume for mass when you lose heat.

In an Physics "ideal gas" scenario and going on the principle of energy is not created or destroyed yes, what you put in one side will just convert to something else if temperature is lost and you will get everything that you put in at the end of the pipe. Unfortunately engines/cars are far from ideal scenarios. There is drag and many other losses involved that are far greater than what is thought. Otherwise you'd just need a pump on one end of a water pipe to make it to the other side of the city, clearly, this is not the case.





Welcome to 1994.
I'm not stating that this our turbo specs.

I was just referring to a sample turbo spec that would be considered "small" or "moderate" in the rotary industry. Not specifically ours, hence the range in compressor diameter. Our exhaust housing is .84 and the turbine wheel is not just a P-Trim.

Just though I'd clear that up.

Chris

I'm not stating that this our turbo specs.

I was just referring to a sample turbo spec that would be considered "small" or "moderate" in the rotary industry. Not specifically ours, hence the range in compressor diameter. Our exhaust housing is .84 and the turbine wheel is not just a P-Trim.

Just though I'd clear that up.

Chris

So what are the exact specks of your turbo, Chris?

Anyone who is driving the car aggressively is not going to notice any lag.

Anyone who is cruising in 6th and wants warp speed is going to notice lag.

Enough said.

Anyone who is driving the car aggressively is not going to notice any lag.

Anyone who is cruising in 6th and wants warp speed is going to notice lag.

Enough said.

Completely true!, the turbo shaft does have to spool before you get power but that is just how turbo's work. It doesn't take until 5.5-6k rpm though.

to everyone else:

We are selling a turbo kit here people, not a v8 conversion ;)

Chris

Only if it is the same turbine.
Air is air. You are just trading volume for mass when you lose heat.
There is still plenty of energy left at the back of the car.



Not to put too fine a point on it, but all air is not created equal. The less heat you have, the less kinetic energy per molecule to spin the turbine.

Yeah, I suppose you can fiddle with the turbine characteristics...I dunno, I did all my work with big steam turbines, not these little air blowers.

Completely true!, the turbo shaft does have to spool before you get power but that is just how turbo's work. It doesn't take until 5.5-6k rpm though.

to everyone else:

We are selling a turbo kit here people, not a v8 conversion ;)

Chris



C'mon guys
Post a log, put this thread to rest. Ok, shut me up if that's what ya wanna call it... :lol:
I say that on this turbo 12 psi is hardly attainable even at 4500 RPM
Making a claim that it is happening at 3500!!?? :Eyecrazy:

...No Way!

I honestly want to find myself extending my apologies, and to be proven wrong. :uhh:


By the way, these are the specks of my T70 as quoted by the supplier:

Wet floating bearing
Turbine wheel trim 64.5mm
compressor wheel 60.5mm super 70 (whatever the hell "super 70" means)
turbine housing A/R .84
compressor housing A/R .70

C'mon guys
Post a log, put this thread to rest. Ok, shut me up if that's what ya wanna call it... :lol:
I say that on this turbo 12 psi is hardly attainable even at 4500 RPM
Making a claim that it is happening at 3500!!?? :Eyecrazy:

...No Way!

I honestly want to find myself extending my apologies, and to be proven wrong. :uhh:

I don't understand how people are spooling this same size turbo to full boost in an rx7 at 3500-4000rpm with 2 fewer intake ports and with larger A/R's on the exhaust and you find it so hard to believe on the 8. This thread is not a thread to prove anything, nor do I believe I have to, the kit has been proven and the people that need to know that do. This thread is about flyboi's install and experience, lets keep it at that.

Chris

All this talk about molecules, fluid dynamics, and volumetric efficiency is making me dizzy :Eyecrazy: I have allot to learn before I go FI next spring :lol:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Short-Turbo-RX8-clip_155817.htm

Read the text.

"By 4K rpms it is spooled up."

And this in a car that has a 4.777 Diff gear which will lower engine load per gear and therefore cause longer spool times.

Definitely not 5.5-6K.

Case closed.


Now on to other things, how's it going flyboi?

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Short-Turbo-RX8-clip_155817.htm

Read the text.

"By 4K rpms it is spooled up."

And this in a car that has a 4.777 Diff gear which will lower engine load per gear and therefore cause longer spool times.

Definitely not 5.5-6K.

Case closed.


Now on to other things, how's it going flyboi?

No it is not!

That is barely 9 psi by (4K?), not 12! (4200 maybe 4300? makes quite a bit difference though, right?)
That video shows no RPM whatsoever. While the logger will show an exact correlation.
Even more to the point that in lower gear, On the street, the spool rate will be slower, because of less load.


I don't understand how people are spooling this same size turbo to full boost in an rx7 at 3500-4000rpm with 2 fewer intake ports and with larger A/R's on the exhaust and you find it so hard to believe on the 8. This thread is not a thread to prove anything, nor do I believe I have to, the kit has been proven and the people that need to know that do. This thread is about flyboi's install and experience, lets keep it at that.

Chris

Yeah well there are also 700+ whp RX7s. And you are not selling the kit to RX7 but RX8. Though the motor is a 13b it has have quite a few differences. Exhaust ports, compression ratio... You know it quite well. And in this thread we are not talking about rx7 here either, so who cares?

I started this by saying that the dyno has confirmed my suspicions about the turbo, that the turbo itself is over sized for a what can be considered fun street car, although is great for a track. I also said that it will make full boost by 5500 and did boost to 14 PSI by 6k rpm, and mentioned it's performance on my setup.
You argued my point making a claiming that it spools near instantly, and even pointed me to the dyno chart, saying "look at the AF... you see? no lag!" however that is not the case, and looking at the AF ratios and how it decreases, and the power increases, I do not the see turbocharger performing the way it is being portrayed by you, but much rather exactly as it is described by me.
After getting a series of very obscure answers from you... Well let's put it this way: It makes it look like you are not answering the questions because you have no answer to it. So far you had offered absolutely no proof of me providing inaccurate information, and none of the kit owners jumped in to tell me that i am wrong.
You on the other hand came up with an absolutely extraordinary claim of 12PSI at 3500 RPM on this kit, with this turbo... On your car that is?
I call this claim ...hmm, how to put it softly... maybe a little bit too far stretched?

This is it! Everyone grab popcorn! I want to know the truth and I am calling you on it!
Either prove your claim to be true (do logged pulls. No nitrous spraying, no purposefully retarding ignition to the point of where it starts burning the fuel in the manifold... :lol2: Dyno is not needed here, just a laptop hooked to Int-X)
And if you can show us/me, that your system is capable of making 12 PSI at 3500 rpm (as you claim) I will publicly apologize to you, and everyone else. Admit that I am bored at work and acted like a child. Otherwise, you take back your claim and admit you have been exaggerating the capabilities of this kit, because you wanted it to appear more attractive to the customers.

Well off course you can continue avoiding the answer, but well know why you'd be doing that.

C'mon, you made a great product. Stand by it!
This is truly one of the cases where I WANT TO BE WRONG! :)

his other video shows boost and rpms:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Esmeril-Racing-RX8-Turbo_156355.htm

his other video shows boost and rpms:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Esmeril-Racing-RX8-Turbo_156355.htm



There ya go!!! :lol2: Much more like it.

haha i'm sorry, i can't really contribute much about the technicalities. all i kno is what i wrote already... the kit is amazing and i had high expectations and it was surpassed. it spools quick (in my opinion), pulls hard and smooth.

Gonna have my tuner call chris soon so we can push this bad boy a bit harder. I'd really like to get this turbo to boost past 7k.

I'm gonna hit the tracks end of this month the way it is, then once i get that figured out, i'll dyno and go to the tracks again (hopefully with new tires by then lol).

Chris, i really appreciate all your time and effort to answer all my petty questions. Looking forward to much more =]

** Anyone in NJ want to go to englishtown with me? Let's set something up... maybe a mini meet?

haha i'm sorry, i can't really contribute much about the technicalities. all i kno is what i wrote already... the kit is amazing and i had high expectations and it was surpassed. it spools quick (in my opinion), pulls hard and smooth.

Gonna have my tuner call chris soon so we can push this bad boy a bit harder. I'd really like to get this turbo to boost past 7k.

I'm gonna hit the tracks end of this month the way it is, then once i get that figured out, i'll dyno and go to the tracks again (hopefully with new tires by then lol).

Chris, i really appreciate all your time and effort to answer all my petty questions. Looking forward to much more =]

** Anyone in NJ want to go to englishtown with me? Let's set something up... maybe a mini meet?

Like I said man, It is a nice kit.
Didn't mean it to turn out like this. I just stated my own observation to sorta prove to myself, not to crap on anyone else, but fantasy took over the reality a little. That video, is exactly how it run on my car, and it is exactly how it now runs, but 2K earlier, and there is no way in hell T70 can do the same.

C'mon guys
Post a log, put this thread to rest. Ok, shut me up if that's what ya wanna call it... :lol:
I say that on this turbo 12 psi is hardly attainable even at 4500 RPM
Making a claim that it is happening at 3500!!?? :Eyecrazy:

...No Way!

I honestly want to find myself extending my apologies, and to be proven wrong. :uhh:


By the way, these are the specks of my T70 as quoted by the supplier:

Wet floating bearing
Turbine wheel trim 64.5mm
compressor wheel 60.5mm super 70 (whatever the hell "super 70" means)
turbine housing A/R .84
compressor housing A/R .70

Calling that a T70 is misleading. I don't know about everyone here, but most people refer to Garrett's designation for turbo sizes. That would be like a To4S( 60-1) or T60. T series usually designates a big shaft turbine wheel too, and I bet that " Super T70 " doesn't have one. Not that that really matters, but does the topic's turbo kit use what you're using or an actual T70. There is a big difference between the two, and probably more than just physical size if this is an ebay turbo( blade pitch etc)

I also assumed you were using a remount turbo system based on that photo, I'm assuming now this is more or less right behind the factory header( not really a remount turbo system)? And yes that highflo cat is probably the reason why your car was so laggy.

To give you an idea, we built a To4E 57 trim powered car, a little bit smaller turbo than yours( 56mm inducer), with a 1.15 P trim turbine and the boost threshold was 1400rpms in 4th gear. This was a 13B however, and a 3.5" exhaust system.

I am done with this discussion in this thread. There is no point and it is clearly deviating from the opening subject.

The video doesn't show rpm but in the text the poster explicitly says how he has full boost before 4000rpm.

On the other video where rpm is visible he doesn't even start getting on the throttle until about 5k so its obvious that it won't have boost before 4k.

I have no reason to contest someones opinion. I have personally seen my car do at least 10psi by 3500rpm, like it or not that is how it is(obviously in first gear its different, its no supercharger, but after that its pretty close to this). Whether it worked the same or not on someone else's setup is for them to figure out and it does not reflect on our kit because they don't have one. All it does is prove furthermore that the setups are different. Period.

Turblown has plenty of experience with other rotaries as well and he seems to be on the same page as me.

As for wether I made this kit for an rx-8 and not an rx-7......I made this kit for a rotary...one that behaves like a rotary.

Back on subject.

Chris

Chris, should I wait until break in period is finished before I start to lean out my car?
What would I need to set myself up for starting to tinker with my maps besides a laptop

Calling that a T70 is misleading. I don't know about everyone here, but most people refer to Garrett's designation for turbo sizes. That would be like a To4S( 60-1) or T60. T series usually designates a big shaft turbine wheel too, and I bet that " Super T70 " doesn't have one. Not that that really matters, but does the topic's turbo kit use what you're using or an actual T70. There is a big difference between the two, and probably more than just physical size if this is an ebay turbo( blade pitch etc)


They use the same unit. If if the OP's turbo was different, there would be no point of this.
Edit: I didn't call it T70, or Super T70... That's just what it happened to be called all along.
Don't blame me :)


I also assumed you were using a remount turbo system based on that photo, I'm assuming now this is more or less right behind the factory header( not really a remount turbo system)? And yes that highflo cat is probably the reason why your car was so laggy.


Well no it is not a remote turbo anymore than their kit is. Turbine flange is just about a foot the header. And it is heat wrapped, and the curves are very smooth, and the pipes joined neatly.

Looking at the video, It wasn't any more luggy than that on the Staticlag's car.

I also assumed you were using a remount turbo system based on that photo, I'm assuming now this is more or less right behind the factory header( not really a remount turbo system)? And yes that highflo cat is probably the reason why your car was so laggy.



So, you're saying that having a high flow cat or maybe a catless midpipe makes it more laggy?

I am done with this discussion in this thread. There is no point and it is clearly deviating from the opening subject.

The video doesn't show rpm but in the text the poster explicitly says how he has full boost before 4000rpm.

On the other video where rpm is visible he doesn't even start getting on the throttle until about 5k so its obvious that it won't have boost before 4k.

I have no reason to contest someones opinion. I have personally seen my car do at least 10psi by 3500rpm, like it or not that is how it is(obviously in first gear its different, its no supercharger, but after that its pretty close to this). Whether it worked the same or not on someone else's setup is for them to figure out and it does not reflect on our kit because they don't have one. All it does is prove furthermore that the setups are different. Period.

Turblown has plenty of experience with other rotaries as well and he seems to be on the same page as me.

As for wether I made this kit for an rx-8 and not an rx-7......I made this kit for a rotary...one that behaves like a rotary.

Back on subject.

Chris

Quite a presidential speech, I must say ;) Lotsa words.
So then make a log? Show us.
Will take you 10 minutes at the most. :)

Someone said on my thread, if there is no vid, it didn't happen. Breaking into boost by 2K and actually making 10 let alone 12 psi @ 3.5K rpm is a huge difference. But again, from the beginning I said nothing more but that the car feels slow on the street, because of the laggy turbo. Even looking at the video (with the rpm) you can see how boost doesn't just happen to be "instant", as it is claimed, but is built over the range of at least 500 - 1000 RPM. From 4500 to 5000, 5000 to 6000 ... look at it again...

Just for kicks, I was playing with the car on the way home tonight. I'd bring the car to cruise (just around 20-15 HG) at exactly 4K in 5th gear, and then floor it. Before the tach needle even moved a 100 the boost was flat and bouncing off the 12 PSI. That makes the car fun to drive. No need to downshift.

When one floors at 4000, and hit full boost a 1000 rpms later (as per the video), makes it a luggy and unresponsive turbo.

OK, I now know what I needed to know. I guess there is no more to gain from this discussion.

chris not to bash or anything but you mentioned that you've had it for almost two years on your car..? any chance you could post your most resent dyno? your website still has the one where the machine had problems or somethign. I was planning on buy your turbo this summer but i Just found out ima be a daddi so ima hold up on it for maybe next summer and save more money for my future baby. but i still would love to see YOUR dyno. thankz oh and maybe a list of what else besides the turbo and int-x you have, what exhuast and stuff. thankz I'm new to the turbo world and just wana learn all i can.

Quite a presidential speech, I must say ;) Lotsa words.
So then make a log? Show us.
Will take you 10 minutes at the most. :)

Someone said on my thread, if there is no vid, it didn't happen. Breaking into boost by 2K and actually making 10 let alone 12 psi @ 3.5K rpm is a huge difference. But again, from the beginning I said nothing more but that the car feels slow on the street, because of the laggy turbo. Even looking at the video (with the rpm) you can see how boost doesn't just happen to be "instant", as it is claimed, but is built over the range of at least 500 - 1000 RPM. From 4500 to 5000, 5000 to 6000 ... look at it again...

Just for kicks, I was playing with the car on the way home tonight. I'd bring the car to cruise (just around 20-15 HG) at exactly 4K in 5th gear, and then floor it. Before the tach needle even moved a 100 the boost was flat and bouncing off the 12 PSI. That makes the car fun to drive. No need to downshift.

When one floors at 4000, and hit full boost a 1000 rpms later (as per the video), makes it a luggy and unresponsive turbo.

OK, I now know what I needed to know. I guess there is no more to gain from this discussion.

Good for you!

Now back on topic!

Chris

Good for you!

Now back on topic!

Chris

OK, Chris, if that's what you want, Back on topic :)

I'll put my "money" where my mouth is, and post my own log, of what may possibly pass as a responsive (to a degree) turbo.
Please note this is not fast, when comes to spooling turbos. My turbo, is still a cheap eBay journal bearings unit. It is not a high end turbocharger with ceramic bearings, water cooling, anti surge ports and etc.

I floored it at 3600 rpm.
The blue line across indicates load (boost)
Red line across, is the engine RPM
Black line is the Injector duty. It is irrelevant, I just forgot to turn it off.

The green vertical line is the cursor positioned on the so you could see the exact values, which are on the bottom of the chart.

Chris, If you are seeing 10psi @ 3500RPM, you should easily be able to match and beat this because the highest I saw at 3500 was somewhere in the area of 8-9 when it was l floored from 2K.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121015&stc=1&d=1211407468

I will admit I am not very versed in tuning the Rx-8 engines, nor engines of that compression ration, but I would bet that tune could use a few more degrees advance and and close to half a point leaner, especially for that psi and ait. Coolant temps are pretty high though, considering all other factors. Could be a reason why the " T70" felt so laggy.

Whiting out all your pron huh? lol

I will admit I am not very versed in tuning the Rx-8 engines, nor engines of that compression ration, but I would bet that tune could use a few more degrees advance and and close to half a point leaner, especially for that psi and ait. Coolant temps are pretty high though, considering all other factors. Could be a reason why the " T70" felt so laggy.

Whiting out all your pron huh? lol

LOL pron is not allowed on the forums, so gotta white it out. :lol: Although I gotta tell ya the risk factor of watching pron on your work laptop, while driving at 80 mph on a freeway... :Eyecrazy: Pure excitement!!!
Just kidding. Those tabs are of the applications that I use for work. They had the company name, and the other info that I prefer to keep private

For the tune though, it is getting hot here in FL, 100F yesterday at the time the log was made. The gas has gotten much crappier lately with the 10% ethanol, they add to it, so I keep the tune conservative. she's still is fast as hell. :) I already blew one motor, and blowing it the second time, right now is not in my budget.

It runs with about 5 degrees of timing at 10 PSI and and it is set to 0 at 14. Everything above that goes up in about 2-4 degrees increment per pound of boost. And I run 30 degrees timing when cruising.

I am still working on the tune for the 6000 - 6500 APV transition, as it is kinda painful to get it right in that area. For some reason, when I do a pull and AFs are set to 11:1 or close to it in the 3rd or 4rth gear, the 1st and 2nd gear will be too reach, and in the area of 6000 rpm will drop close to 9:1AF and the car bogs down. Then if I lean it out to go 11s through 1rst and second gear, in 4th and up the transition gets too lean. may shoot to 12:1 even at 6500 and I can't get it right for some reason. That is another reason why I keep the timing so conservative.

As per fuel, the AF you see there is Int-X default value. There is no wideband connected to it.

Coolant temps - there is something wrong with how my Int-x displays the temps. It begun doing that about half a year ago. Just out of the blue all temp readings became 10C degrees or so higher. I had it checked at the mechanic, and the engine temps checked out fine. The fans don't even come on until it reaches 108 -110C as per Int-X. Could be because (just about when this happened) I got a new laptop at work and installed the software from the Microtech website. Not from the CD that came with int-X. Maybe that's why? Could be a bug, in that version.

The bottom line is this: that blast from the past T70 run on my car exactly as it is showing to run on the Statics video. Just on the verge of "yeah, it ain't that bad if you drive it hard". But guys that is not what the Esmeril Racing is claiming!
They claim it to be a fast spooling turbo, they claim 10PSI at 3500 and 12PSI under 4K and then refuse to provide any proof.
"It is what it is, we don't have to prove anything?" - they say.
Riiiiight...

I don't have to prove anything because I am not selling my half-ass system as a fully developed product. Yet if asked, I will always answer any questions, and hide no detail.

Same with Ray (BHR), and Jeff (MazdaManiac).
Ask them anything about their products, and they will provide you with every detail they can get their hands on. Dynos, logs, videos, pictures... you name it. Why so? Because we got nothing to hide.

Yet look at Ezmeril Racing:
They have a product which is in production, and is being installed on customers vehicles, at the price no less but a 6 grand (without even the EMS!).
Not a small chunk of change to drop on something that will then turn out not to be working as expected. They make all the claims, yet they refuse to show any proof, they even lie about the origin of their components from the very start.

Chris, remember the conversation we had just when you released the kit?
I raised a question about you removing the OEM bumper, and mounting the intercooler in it's place with some bracket, that you fabricated on your own, and you were like: Oh no, we had it tested, and it would stand to the requirements...

You had it tested? How may I ask? Maybe you had it crash tested too?
Rammed the "test car" into a concrete wall at 80MPH to see what happens? LOL

But wait, this wasn't it!
Next thing we know - bumper is back in the car.
Thanks for the idea rotorocks! ...well no there wasn't any thanks. After that conversation you quit answering my PMs for like 3 months. ...Didn't see my messages? Ohhh.. Well don't worry about it. It's cool ;) I didn't give a shit, and even recommended the kit to a couple of guys who PMed me, asking what I think of it.
Sorry about that guys.

I didn't even start this caboodle with the purpose of ending it up where it is now, but it did. And it sure looks like I am not far from the truth.
We don't see any kit owners jumping in saying that I am wrong, do we?
Don't you think that this would have happened already if the kit operated at least somewhat close to what it is advertised to be? Heck yeah! Everyone would have been at my throat by now!
Look at how Pettit owners jump to defend their superchargers? The reason: Pettit is not perfect, but at least it works as advertised.
Not only you see no one defending this darn thing, but people who already own it PM me asking what would be a good turbo to use as a replacement. Why do you think that is happening?

Anyway, screw it.
To those who still reads read this rant, here is my totally unfair, and biased recommendation.
Wanna drop $6K plus on a turbo kit right away? With all honesty, get a Greddy with MazdaManiacs upgrade, or wait for until they release the BHR Kit.

Believe it, It is/will be the best thing for your money.
And those guys will never bullshit you about what it is or is not, or what it can and cannot do.

In addition:
-They do have a dyno that leaves no RPM spot uncharted
-They will show you the pictures of factories and facilities where they make their stuff if they say they went there to inspect it
-They will give you EXACT specs of their turbo and other components
-They will openly answer every one of your questions, and knowing Jeff and Ray and their attention to detail and dedication (which they continuously show) I say that their turbochargers will be perfect for your RX8.

WOW, that is a long post! Thank you for reading this.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Back on topic.

I have the Esmeril kit purchased, not driven yet, but from others who have this and have posted their numbers, it is lower than what I expected. Knowing that, as a customer, as well as people thinking about purchasing this, I think it is fair to say that an updated dyno isn't much to ask. I mean I want to stand up for my purchase, maybe I will in a few days when I get my car back, but until then, I feel the creators should do that.

Sayin that you have personally seen this or that, others havent. Granted eveyr engine is deifferent given certain circumstances. But, it should generally be getting the same numbers. I am hoping to get around the 310-330 that is claimed on the homepage @ 12-13 PSI as I purchased the int-x to go with the kit so that I could reach these goals. All will be known with my setup May 30th.

You have everything to prove, as your market is us. The RX-8 community. Hopefully, I can step in to back this kit up liek I want to.

lol, my only intention was to give this kit my own opinion and a dyno to show what i'm making.

i've never owned any other turbo'd cars so this is my first. rotor, i understand you put together a great kit for yourself and i'm happy for you man. you want to hear that your turbo is better/faster? maybe it is, and it sounds like you really know what you're doing.

also sounds like you think this kit is somewhat shadey since they are holding some of the information you're asking for (and you do have every right to), but as a customer, the guys were always there to help me and the customer service was great before purchase and way after. Yea it would've been great if they showed a recent dyno with their fix running strong at 12psi but i took the leap, the car is running great, i'm happy. that's all i'm saying in this thread.

I understand my opinions are all completely subjective.. but i was just hoping it can help the rx8 community a bit =]

flyboi.....your results are the closest ive seen btw....but why aren't you able to take it to 12 PSI? did you ever get that issue (thats in your dyno sheet) fixed and gonna take it a little higher? Obviosuly you can't take it upo much further until you get an ignition upgrade....

you want to hear that your turbo is better/faster?


flyboi, you are missing the point here.
I get plenty of praise from my own thread, I don't need it on this one. This is not about my turbo. My turbo is far from being great, as it is right now on my car, it actually looks pretty ghetto with all the changes I made. cuts to the manifold, patching up the holes for waistgate, and pipes...

This is about the fact that the maker of your kit is not being honest about his product.

This is not a question about what PSI the turbo ultimately can produce. It can produce a lot.
This is not about what HP it will make ether.
Having not driven a turboed car before, you may find yourself happy with what you have. Good for you.

This is about the fact that questions have been asked and no answers were given. Instead only ridiculous claims have been made.

From the beginning what I said was "...great for the track...", "...feels slow and unresponsive on the street..." that is all.
And that again was said in reference to the turbocharger itself, not the entire kit. The kit on it's own is great!

Yeah it feels faster for you because you are comparing it with the stock car. But had they maybe put more effort into selecting a different turbo, the Street fun could be 3X what it is. Instead of just saying, guys, this is how things are. It is a heavy turbo, it takes a little longer to spool, what does chris say?
Instead they just told you that it is gonna spool fast, while it does not. And left you to figure it out yourself.

Same as they said that they do not use ebay turbos and actually had them purchased from a manufacturer, and inspected the facilities and what not, and when asked about proof (that was in their thread somewhere, check it out) what was the answer?
There wasn't any. They say: "we don't need to prove anything to anyone", "it is what it is".
Kinda like in that joke about a cheating husband who was caught, and he came with some bullshit excuse but when confronted said: "this is my story, and I sticking with it".

You see what I am trying to say?

LOL pron is not allowed on the forums, so gotta white it out. :lol: Although I gotta tell ya the risk factor of watching pron on your work laptop, while driving at 80 mph on a freeway... :Eyecrazy: Pure excitement!!!
Just kidding. Those tabs are of the applications that I use for work. They had the company name, and the other info that I prefer to keep private

For the tune though, it is getting hot here in FL, 100F yesterday at the time the log was made. The gas has gotten much crappier lately with the 10% ethanol, they add to it, so I keep the tune conservative. she's still is fast as hell. :) I already blew one motor, and blowing it the second time, right now is not in my budget.

It runs with about 5 degrees of timing at 10 PSI and and it is set to 0 at 14. Everything above that goes up in about 2-4 degrees increment per pound of boost. And I run 30 degrees timing when cruising.

I am still working on the tune for the 6000 - 6500 APV transition, as it is kinda painful to get it right in that area. For some reason, when I do a pull and AFs are set to 11:1 or close to it in the 3rd or 4rth gear, the 1st and 2nd gear will be too reach, and in the area of 6000 rpm will drop close to 9:1AF and the car bogs down. Then if I lean it out to go 11s through 1rst and second gear, in 4th and up the transition gets too lean. may shoot to 12:1 even at 6500 and I can't get it right for some reason. That is another reason why I keep the timing so conservative.

As per fuel, the AF you see there is Int-X default value. There is no wideband connected to it.

Coolant temps - there is something wrong with how my Int-x displays the temps. It begun doing that about half a year ago. Just out of the blue all temp readings became 10C degrees or so higher. I had it checked at the mechanic, and the engine temps checked out fine. The fans don't even come on until it reaches 108 -110C as per Int-X. Could be because (just about when this happened) I got a new laptop at work and installed the software from the Microtech website. Not from the CD that came with int-X. Maybe that's why? Could be a bug, in that version.

The bottom line is this: that blast from the past T70 run on my car exactly as it is showing to run on the Statics video. Just on the verge of "yeah, it ain't that bad if you drive it hard". But guys that is not what the Esmeril Racing is claiming!
They claim it to be a fast spooling turbo, they claim 10PSI at 3500 and 12PSI under 4K and then refuse to provide any proof.
"It is what it is, we don't have to prove anything?" - they say.
Riiiiight...

I don't have to prove anything because I am not selling my half-ass system as a fully developed product. Yet if asked, I will always answer any questions, and hide no detail.

Same with Ray (BHR), and Jeff (MazdaManiac).
Ask them anything about their products, and they will provide you with every detail they can get their hands on. Dynos, logs, videos, pictures... you name it. Why so? Because we got nothing to hide.

Yet look at Ezmeril Racing:
They have a product which is in production, and is being installed on customers vehicles, at the price no less but a 6 grand (without even the EMS!).
Not a small chunk of change to drop on something that will then turn out not to be working as expected. They make all the claims, yet they refuse to show any proof, they even lie about the origin of their components from the very start.

Chris, remember the conversation we had just when you released the kit?
I raised a question about you removing the OEM bumper, and mounting the intercooler in it's place with some bracket, that you fabricated on your own, and you were like: Oh no, we had it tested, and it would stand to the requirements...

You had it tested? How may I ask? Maybe you had it crash tested too?
Rammed the "test car" into a concrete wall at 80MPH to see what happens? LOL

But wait, this wasn't it!
Next thing we know - bumper is back in the car.
Thanks for the idea rotorocks! ...well no there wasn't any thanks. After that conversation you quit answering my PMs for like 3 months. ...Didn't see my messages? Ohhh.. Well don't worry about it. It's cool ;) I didn't give a shit, and even recommended the kit to a couple of guys who PMed me, asking what I think of it.
Sorry about that guys.

I didn't even start this caboodle with the purpose of ending it up where it is now, but it did. And it sure looks like I am not far from the truth.
We don't see any kit owners jumping in saying that I am wrong, do we?
Don't you think that this would have happened already if the kit operated at least somewhat close to what it is advertised to be? Heck yeah! Everyone would have been at my throat by now!
Look at how Pettit owners jump to defend their superchargers? The reason: Pettit is not perfect, but at least it works as advertised.
Not only you see no one defending this darn thing, but people who already own it PM me asking what would be a good turbo to use as a replacement. Why do you think that is happening?

Anyway, screw it.
To those who still reads read this rant, here is my totally unfair, and biased recommendation.
Wanna drop $6K plus on a turbo kit right away? With all honesty, get a Greddy with MazdaManiacs upgrade, or wait for until they release the BHR Kit.

Believe it, It is/will be the best thing for your money.
And those guys will never bullshit you about what it is or is not, or what it can and cannot do.

In addition:
-They do have a dyno that leaves no RPM spot uncharted
-They will show you the pictures of factories and facilities where they make their stuff if they say they went there to inspect it
-They will give you EXACT specs of their turbo and other components
-They will openly answer every one of your questions, and knowing Jeff and Ray and their attention to detail and dedication (which they continuously show) I say that their turbochargers will be perfect for your RX8.

WOW, that is a long post! Thank you for reading this.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Back on topic.

Uhhhh....Wow!

I think this conversation has turned into a non-objective one so I will not continue it after this post.

Just as a note, we did test the intercooler as a means to contain crash energy. You don't need to ram the car into a wall to know if the bumper bar works. There are non-destructive tests for this kind of object like a pressure/deflection test where deflection is measured relative to force/pressure applied and compared to the stock one. And yes, I know how to develop, implement and perform such test in a controlled environment being that I am a mechanical engineer with a good chunk of structural/stress analysis experience in developing new products that will/coould be subjected to mechanical stresses. Do you actually think the factory tests every bumper bar destructively?....and yes they have to test production units from the line regularly to comply with DOT standards. They don't, they test a few in actual real crash scenarios and from that develop baseline telemetry for what they would to perform non destructive test of production units. I apologize for not being more specific and allowing this kind of speculation to occur ;)

About it originally being your idea and we not thanking you, I believe this to be totally untrue. We decided to keep the stock bumper for two reasons, none of which are that you suggested it:
1. The liability insurance involved in changing/replacing a crash component of a car regardless of any controlled testing would surpass 1/3rd of what an RX-8 is worth PER MONTH!!!!
2. The fact that many potential customers expressed that it would make them feel better in their belly if we worked around the stock bar and kept it there.

I apologize for not explaining this in more detail earlier, some of us would rather not post every imaginable developmental issue/progress/change we run into.....

This sounds more like a personal vendetta than a genuine interest in our kit and this thread is about someone trying to perform a review of our kit so I will refrain from further commenting about these issues.

Thanks,

Chris

We will have a dyno soon and that should take care of all this speculation.

Flyboi, your numbers are consisted with ours, you just haven't tuned it past 6700rpm, I explained what you had to do to accomplish this, let me know if you have any questions.

Louis, Same to you, pm me or call if you have any questions.


Chris

p.s.whether something is fit for a racetrack or the street has to do with personal preference........go look in the RX-7 forum and you will see what I mean....

Uhhhh....Wow!

I think this conversation has turned into a non-objective one so I will not continue it after this post.

Just as a note, we did test the intercooler as a means to contain crash energy. You don't need to ram the car into a wall to know if the bumper bar works. There are non-destructive tests for this kind of object like a pressure/deflection test where deflection is measured relative to force/pressure applied and compared to the stock one. And yes, I know how to develop, implement and perform such test in a controlled environment being that I am a mechanical engineer with a good chunk of structural/stress analysis experience in developing new products that will/coould be subjected to mechanical stresses. Do you actually think the factory tests every bumper bar destructively?....and yes they have to test production units from the line regularly to comply with DOT standards. They don't, they test a few in actual real crash scenarios and from that develop baseline telemetry for what they would to perform non destructive test of production units. I apologize for not being more specific and allowing this kind of speculation to occur ;)

About it originally being your idea and we not thanking you, I believe this to be totally untrue. We decided to keep the stock bumper for two reasons, none of which are that you suggested it:
1. The liability insurance involved in changing/replacing a crash component of a car regardless of any controlled testing would surpass 1/3rd of what an RX-8 is worth PER MONTH!!!!
2. The fact that many potential customers expressed that it would make them feel better in their belly if we worked around the stock bar and kept it there.

I apologize for not explaining this in more detail earlier, some of us would rather not post every imaginable developmental issue/progress/change we run into.....

This sounds more like a personal vendetta than a genuine interest in our kit and this thread is about someone trying to perform a review of our kit so I will refrain from further commenting about these issues.

Thanks,

Chris

Sure,
Mechanical engineer, keep on deviating from the subject.
I don't care about what you did with the bumper test. Thinking back, I did however mention to you the liabilities you are going to face if you replace the factory safety equipment. And I was just trying to be sarcastic with the crush test example.
I have no vendetta against you. Why would I? Dude, I don't even know you.
Your continuous reluctance to provide straightforward answers, or any kind of information that can back up the claims you've made simply raised my curiosity to the point where I couldn't resist but to eventually directly confront you. And so far it has been not without a reason.

I don't claim to know everything, I am no mechanical engineer either. I lean more towards using common sense rather than fancy engineering in my explorations. And there is nothing wrong with relying on equations and such to make sure things work. The thing that bothers me is: When a person of your professionalism suggests that 3 feet of 2.5" pipe might be the reason for a significantly slower spool on a turbocharger that is capable of potentially flowing in excess of 72 pounds of air... :Eyecrazy:
I am sure being a mechanical engineer you are aware of the velocities at which the charge travels through that pipe, and the volume of air that goes through?

woohoo, this is quite the discussion! i hope that chris can get on a dyno quickly to finally bring the numbers out into the open. i also hope, like rotorocks, that the speculation is proven wrong and that the esmeril kit CAN substantiate all of its claims. from what i've read, it definitely seems like a good kit and i hope that my impression is maintained by the dyno results

woohoo, this is quite the discussion! i hope that chris can get on a dyno quickly to finally bring the numbers out into the open. i also hope, like rotorocks, that the speculation is proven wrong and that the esmeril kit CAN substantiate all of its claims.

I am not speculating, and he wont be able to prove anything.
And he knows it, that is why he keeps on playing his game of "Uhh! where did you get this information?:Eyecrazy:"

Well I get information from running the same exact turbo, on a (although not identical) but quite a similar setup, plus the OP dyno posts and the AF reading from 4K and on, plus OP himself said it :)

"It's full boost at 5.5k on the dyno cuz he's full throttle starting from 4k."

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2471992&postcount=50

Not to mention the posted videos, and quotes from other owners of his kit.

I am not speculating, and he wont be able to prove anything.
And he knows it, that is why he keeps on playing his game of "Uhh! where did you get this information?:Eyecrazy:"

Well I get information from running the same exact turbo, on a (although not identical) but quite a similar setup, plus the OP dyno posts and the AF reading from 4K and on, plus OP himself said it :)

"It's full boost at 5.5k on the dyno cuz he's full throttle starting from 4k."

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2471992&postcount=50

Not to mention the posted videos, and quotes from other owners of his kit.

Again, neither Jason nor I feel the need to prove anything to you, especially considering the method/tactics you are using to request the information. The only people we need to prove the kit to are our customers and so far we've had absolutely no complaints and it has performed as expected. You are however entitled to your opinion so feel free to keep commenting. However, I will not go into another "my setup is just like yours and therefore..." argument. That is not my purpose here and neither is the purpose of this thread. I appreciate your input but I will not get involved if any more discussions of the sort because I believe they are pointless.

I apologize to everyone else. If anyone is interested in getting any information regarding our kit because you are interested in purchasing it feel free to contact us via our webpage contact info.

Dyno will be up soon and maybe a plot too for everyone to see ;)

Thanks,

Chris

Dyno will be up soon and maybe a plot too for everyone to see ;)

Thanks,

Chris


More like it. :) Hopefully the plot will be done using the same turbo?

We will have a dyno soon and that should take care of all this speculation.

That's a broken record since LAST FALL.

i dont knwo what the big deal is.. if ur so confident in ur product than y has it been so long to post some dyno sheets of ur product?? many people here need to see this before dumping 6-7 thousand dollars into a turbo kit. by u guys takin forever in doin this not only does it make it look shady but it also makes 90% of us belive ur kit does not do what u claim it does... mazsport,and petit have vids/pics/ and dyno sheets posted on this forum and are active, time u step it up a notch, wether u feel u need to or not

wow, quite a bit of thread crapping in here...

i spoke to my tuner and he should be giving u a call soon chris... or maybe he already has?

anyways, i bought the greddy profec b spec 2 boost controller and i stuck that baby in the plastic part in the middle stereo console but cutting it out. i'll go take a picture of it cuz it's hot lol (i hope i'm the first to do this... but probably not -_-;;)

well some people do want to see a dyno...............especially for something thats

6k

This thread now should be locked to all but 3 people

flyboy1121 as he is the OP, Chris as he will be posting plots and dynos. ...real soon! (Like that's gonna happen :lol2:)
And me, because I will be extending my apologies, when he proved his acclaimed 12PSI at 3500 rpm produced with this chunk of iron of a turbo. :)


Back to the tread though:
Flyboy, I am curious to see how you installed that Profec? Sounds like it's gonna look good.

this is a forum and at no point if esmeril wants to sell kits should this thread be locked to only 3 people, we all wanna see the proof that he said he was gonna show us a long time ago

I installed the greddy profec boost controller and my apexi turbo timer in the ashtray. Took out the actual ashtray and put them in there. With some double sided stick p[ads and they dont move and I can close the tray if I dont feel like seeing them ;) Looks pretty sweet

06-12-2007, 04:04 PM ChrisRX8PR:
Just an update. No details will be given until all is proven and hard number are aquired with written evidence(ie Dyno sheets :D). The kit has been upgraded, a new more efficient manifold has been made using our jig and the intake to the turbo has been changed to accomodate all the factory hoses etc. Its going solid and soon we will post more information. Thanks.

08-23-2007, 02:01 AM ChrisRX8PR:
I want to make sure everyone reads the description on the website of that dyno sheet to avoid confusion. The dyno pickup burned out halfway through the run and the owners had to order a new one so it..

08-23-2007, 02:26 AM ChrisRX8PR:
Well actually the boost curve isn't on that dyno sheet so we shouldn't assume that boost took that long to increase. Again, I didn't step on the gas until above 4000rpm because I wasn't interested...

08-23-2007, 02:36 AM ChrisRX8PR:
Good point. I am trying to schedule some time at the dyno that works for all of us. I'll make sure and record a run in that range so people can have an idea of what to expect.
We really like how...

08-23-2007, 02:59 AM ChrisRX8PR:
I totally understand that. Two things to note are that on the dyno sheet my curve is like a shelve from about 5 on up and I can state that it doesnt die until about 8500rpm. Considering I didnt...

08-23-2007, 08:10 AM ChrisRX8PR:
Sure thing. This should happen sometime over the next few weeks. We already tuned to perfection with the EMU. Now we will tune with an different EMS to see were we can get with that, we want to...

08-24-2007, 11:04 AM ChrisRX8PR:
Just as a reminder, that is a preliminary dyno sheet. The car wasnt floored until 4000rpm so that doesnt represent how the TQ curve would be if floored from say, 2000rpm. The pickup on the dyno we...

08-27-2007, 12:21 PM ChrisRX8PR:
New dyno is in the works we are currently in a tunning phase once it is completed we will be able to raise the boost to way higher levels.

08-28-2007, 08:18 AM ChrisRX8PR:
I totally understand what you are saying. The problem is that the sensor didnt just quit, it burned out and that put the dyno out until they got new parts. We took this oportunity to take the...

08-28-2007, 08:28 AM ChrisRX8PR:
Very true, the idea behind the video was to provide people with something more than pictures at a standstill. I understand that it in no way represents or substitutes a dyno sheet and we are not...

09-13-2007, 04:58 PM ChrisRX8PR:
We should have a full dyno sometime next week.

09-14-2007, 08:20 AM ChrisRX8PR:
Yes I will run the interceptor on the dyno. I will actually try to get one with each.

10-09-2007, 08:18 AM ChrisRX8PR:
No abandonment has occurred ;). We've just been working really hard on the Ignition upgrade so that when we post a dyno number it isnt just a little above the other kits. Instead we want it to be a...

11-05-2007, 08:26 AM ChrisRX8PR:
Our turbo kit can put you in a number of leagues depending on how far you wish to go. As it comes out of the box you will probably run a low 13sec quarter mile, will be able to outrun an M3, a C5...

11-05-2007, 03:59 PM ChrisRX8PR:
I have actually ran the car at 18psi, and it feels awesome......at least 116mph trap speed awesome....but there is a problem. With the stock ECU still in control of the drive-by-wire throttle we are...

11-11-2007, 12:33 PM ChrisRX8PR:
That dyno is of the kit out of the box but the RPM pickup was giving us trouble and it quit reading at 7200rpm. We were also dealing with the whole DSC,TC,ABS deal. We will post new dynos sheets at stock and higher boost soon but that should give you an idea.

11-12-2007, 08:16 AM ChrisRX8PR:
I was able to get marginal runs at and below 300whp but the stronger the engine gets the more it wants to limit it. Now at 17psi it wont rev past 6000rpm on the dyno. I will see the Throttle body..

11-27-2007, 01:42 PM ChrisRX8PR:
Right now our black test car had the turbo removed so that we could make the jigs to replicate the changes for the rest of the kits. We will post a dyno of the local customers car if that is put...

11-28-2007, 12:15 PM ChrisRX8PR:
You can have 2-3psi at anything above 2500rpm anytime you step on the throttle and it grows gradually, depending on load, until full boost is reached. In the old dyno sheet, I didnt even floor the...

11-29-2007, 02:10 PM ChrisRX8PR:
Even if we post a dyno of a 400whp+ renesis, you still haven't seen one. You're just looking at a piece of paper that is believed to be a 400whp renesis. You still have to trust the person that...

12-07-2007, 05:20 PM ChrisRX8PR:
Just to let everyone know that a forum member started the install of his esmeril turbo kit today. It should be done by tomorrow night. He informed me that he would take lots of pictures and post his findings here on the forum. We will also dyno his car sometime over the next week or two with the kit as it comes out of the box with every trick(pulled fuse and whatnot) in order to be able to get a full dyno. We will post the dyno chart.

12-14-2007, 09:36 AM ChrisRX8PR:
The customer finished the install yesterday. We will dyno it as soon as possible. We do have to allow him to drive it for a little while to get accustomed with the car and for the turbo bearings to set in.

05-22-2008, 02:06 PM ChrisRX8PR:
We will have a dyno soon and that should take care of all this speculation.


http://panthermodem.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/i-want-to-believe.jpg

^

Wow! That must have taken considerable time and effort to piece together. I don't understand why all of a sudden everyone is on our case. The people that have bought the kit are happy with it and have no complains about us. I know it has been an ongoing issue to get a dyno but we have tried to explain as much as possible each reason that has prevented us from getting a run. Other vendors haven't posted boost plots, or dyno sheets that meet their claims either so what is different here. We are not talking about not posting a run but simply about not having had a chance to actually make a run. When it wasnt the ABS/TCS(lack of knowledge on dynoing techniques) it was the dyno that was down for a while(we don't have our own) and when that was fixed we ran into the issue with the ignition not being up to the task of handling the boost. Not to mention that for about 5 months of every year the car cannot be driven because we are in Minnesota and the fact that I work 8 hours a day in a medical device company. It was still snowing here and there until a month ago.

I totally understand everyone's concern about a dyno and plots etc. I want to get one as much as all of you do. All I can say is that I am working on it and I will post one as soon as I get one. I will also post a video of the car from inside so people can get a realistic idea of the boost characteristics of the engine.

Enough with the thread bashing. This is supposed to be a review thread, not one for this.

Thanks.

Chris

I don't understand why all of a sudden everyone is on our case... Other vendors haven't posted boost plots, or dyno sheets that meet their claims either so what is different here.

LOL
Other vendors either do not claim unrealistic boost curves, or if they say they spool fast, they present plenty of proof. Their customers made numerous videos showing sizable boost levels from low RPMs also. And HP and torque curves from 2000 or whatever and on...

I personally don't give a damn about your dyno. I know that it will make plenty of power, it is the acclaimed fast spool that I won't take your word for. :)

It seems as though he made it pretty clear that this thread is about the review of the turbo kit (hence the name of the thread) and not about your bashing...you don't have the kit and your not interested in one, move on.


Don't you have your own thread about you doing some turbo build, blowing your motor and then on top of it all, you offer a turbo kit and tuning services...
It seems you have plenty to worry about and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with what's in this thread.


Why not let those that have the kit, do the review?

It seems as though he made it pretty clear that this thread is about the review of the turbo kit (hence the name of the thread) and not about your bashing...you don't have the kit and your not interested in one, move on.


Don't you have your own thread about you doing some turbo build, blowing your motor and then on top of it all, you offer a turbo kit and tuning services...
It seems you have plenty to worry about and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with what's in this thread.


Why not let those that have the kit, do the review?



I am very interested in one.
I was asked by a potential local customer of mine to find all I can about this kit, because he happened to like it, but knows nothing about turbos, and asked me to thoroughly investigate it.

Does this now make it OK to question this kit's capabilities? Maybe anything I said is groundless?

On the other hand, who is stopping the owners from giving their reviews?

LOL
Other vendors either do not claim unrealistic boost curves, or if they say they spool fast, they present plenty of proof. Their customers made numerous videos showing sizable boost levels from low RPMs also. And HP and torque curves from 2000 or whatever and on...

I personally don't give a damn about your dyno. I know that it will make plenty of power, it is the acclaimed fast spool that I won't take your word for. :)


Unfortunately my priority is a dyno since that is the official claim that is made by us on our website and numerous other places and that is what will ultimately matter most to most people from our experience with potential customers.
Putting a personal argument to rest about whether your manifold didn't spool a similar turbo until 5.5k rpm and exactly where ours spools isn't really my highest priority because all I care about is that customers are happy with the kit when they install it and the driveability it provides to them as customers. They can then relay to others their thoughts and feelings of how the kit behaves on a day to day basis if they wish to. I do understand your interest though and I will do my best to get video or something of the sort for you when I have the time to do so.

Thanks. Now lets get back on topic.

Chris

Chris, you are hopelss. :)
As much time as you spent here typing up excuses, you would have made and posted the damn plot and make everyone happy. And that not just involves me. But whatever. They are your customers. You don't have to prove anything, right? ;)

Yes I look at this tread every day couse I hoping to find finaly the dyno puting the renessis in 400WHP range
Good luck Chris Iam very interesting with your stuf
And thanks rotorocks to push lazy Chris to make that happend:)

Ok its time for the dyno :)

here they are. cut out the plastic piece and it looks great!

(added the pictures on first post too)

I am very interested in one.
I was asked by a potential local customer of mine to find all I can about this kit, because he happened to like it, but knows nothing about turbos, and asked me to thoroughly investigate it.

Does this now make it OK to question this kit's capabilities? Maybe anything I said is groundless?

On the other hand, who is stopping the owners from giving their reviews?


...your obviously not the one interested in the kit, so you say that "your" customer is interested? Sure...o.k.

So this "customer" is asking you to do his due diligence, when you haven't got it right?

Nothing wrong with asking, although it's becoming borderline harassment. Although no worries, I see you have an agenda.

Carry on...

...your obviously not the one interested in the kit, so you say that "your" customer is interested? Sure...o.k.

So this "customer" is asking you to do his due diligence, when you haven't got it right?

Nothing wrong with asking, although it's becoming borderline harassment. Although no worries, I see you have an agenda.

Carry on...

GTAW, you are right, I have an agenda.
I discovered that this particular turbo spools in a relatively lazy manner, and made my opinion heard in a thread which I found to be most relevant. Besides it is a review, isn't it? I agree It might have been better if I started a whole new one, yet I had no idea it will spin like this.


Back to the thread.

Flyboy,
Did you actually have to take apart the radio to do that, or you cut the panel from the outside? Can you post a bigger picture? It does look kinda cool. :)

^that piece his boost controller is in pops right out. you can use a screwdriver. very easy

^that piece his boost controller is in pops right out. you can use a screwdriver. very easy

it's true but it's really nerve wrecking cuz that plastic piece seems so fragile. my tuner and i were also nervous that when we try to cut into it, it might just crack down the line... but it held up :)

it's true but it's really nerve wrecking cuz that plastic piece seems so fragile. my tuner and i were also nervous that when we try to cut into it, it might just crack down the line... but it held up :)

i can also vouch that the half-moon plastic piece is rather structurally stable... i mounted the OEM(JDM) start button there and cut i decent hole in it as well as three screw holes around that. the piano black plastic material is fairly narrow in places, but its sturdy!

reccomend to anyone who hacks it up.... put 3 or so layers of painters/masking tape over the plastic, measure,/draw, and measure/draw again. if you mess up cutting its around $50 for a new one.

i cut it by drilling pilot holes and dremeling out the rest. just be carefull not to heat it up to much and melt it as you go

nice install on the boost controller:ylsuper:

Thread has been down for so long... any updates?