I notice that quite few ppl here are in the market for car next year and they are interested in RX-8... what other cars are you also interested to? I think we will find a wide range of competitors since RX-8 is really a car that can appeal to wide range of buyers...

Since I am planning going back to Europe (from USA), I am definetly looking into my options, keeping in mind performance, image, ease of use (parking, mpg) & comfort (inside)... Right now, Clio 172 (small, non obvious, yet BMW beater), Mini Cooper S (small, stylish & performance to match it), & Celica GTS/T Sport (sweet car that needs more power under 6k rpm) are main competitors even though most are cheaper than RX-8, but it looks so damn sweet it is hard to not look into ;-)

I am definetly not WRX or EVO kind of guy, if I was, I would get a nice bike and clio to match it ;-)

also, I am not 40 ;-)... but in low 20ies... RX-8 IS NOT a family car but it can be used as one as well... I need a car that can fit two chiks in the back, together with me and my buddy at front... 2+2 car would do fine as well, but nice 4 seater is a nice...

Dunno how well those seats handle "excessive" usage though, they look a bit thin, hopefully that will be tested as well

:D

I'm seriously considering the Mercedes C230. They're doing some major engine redesigns for the 2003 model year. It's about the same price range. I don't think there aren't any other competitors out there. The 350Z is too small. Two seats only isn't practical. I hope the RX-8 makes the fall auto shows. The SF Auto Show is during Thanksgiving. Maybe I can hop into one to get the full experience.

my options are either a rx-8 or a 350z, both are practical for me, and will also satisfy my hunger for speed

We've looked at the Miata and TT. I was pretty much set on the Miata (have you SEEN the SE this year? I'm praying that they make that color scheme in the RX-8 too) until we heard the RX-8 was arriving soon. If it drives as well as reported, I just can't justify a two-seater with as little hp as the Miata when the RX-8 will drive just as well with more room and more hp.

For me I am looking at a Maita, a supercharged Mini Cooper, or a PT Cruiser GT if they come out with one. I sure hope Mazda can make the RX8 handle like a Miata. If so it is a done deal.

I found a 1994 Rx-7 R2 with 0 miles on brand new engine and new twin turbos and 0 miles on new tranny for $13,000 perfect condition, i'm having doubts about the Rx-8......30,000 dollar car that dosen't look anywhere near as good as any Rx-7. If the price drops i'll get one for sure but if it sticks in the 30k range its going to end-up just like the FD=overpriced and won't sell good and we'll probably never see another rotary powered vehicle if that happens

I was considering a WRX until I saw how cheap and ugly they are in person...

Johnny, I think their current targetted price of $26k is quite cheap for a sports car... I mean even miata special edition is more than that with 140 hp engine, hell even protege5 can get up to 20k with few options installed... how do you expect RX8 to be cheaper? I mean sure, they can go and do what Mitsu and Subaru did, and give us cheap insides... I am sure that would bring it down for another $1k-$2k at least.. but then again, I would not touch it with a ten yard stick, let alone shell out $2x large for it ;-)

The new Infinity G35 is quite an impressive vehicle, more so when the 6 spd comes out this fall.

3300 lbs, 260 HP (260 lbs/ft), 4 door

Starts at $27,100 USD which is close to RX-8. Aluminum suspension members, no struts, 52/48 f/r weight balance. And pretty nice looking as well.

how can it have no struts? that's a pretty essential part of a suspension.

either way, my other candidates as of now are:
WRX-STi. If that's too expensive, then just a WRX
or
Mini Cooper S

So that's it...3 cars, and neither of them are direct competition towards the others :)

Multi-link design. Still uses a shock absorber, just not the beefier strut type.

For me, and I'm sure for a lot of other Canadians on this board, the MSRP will make a huge difference as to comparison shopping. Honestly, $26-30K US range means nothing because various manufacturers discount the vehicle at different rates for the Canadian market. Hence a $26 starting price doesn't necessarily mean $41.6K Cdn (using typical 1.6 conversion) because it will immediately price itself out of the market, given that our standard of living is similar to Americans, we just have a lousy dollar...

I'm researched Mazda's discounts and seen that they're all over the place, such as the Miata being offered for approx $27K USD and close to the same in Cdn fund, whereas the Millenia had a $28K USD starting point compared to the Cdn. $42K. While some of these vehicle may have different stock features, the rate does change. Given a loaded Altima prices around $33K Cdn and the WRX starts at $34K Cdn, I imagine the RX-8 will be around $33K Cdn to start and fully loaded for approx $38K. BTW, the G35 starts at $39K Cdn. (ouch!).

Personally it's either RX-8 or nothing, I've already got 2 good cars.

As far as Canadian pricing goes, here's what I hope:

Currently a Miata goes for about 21K in the states and 27K in Canada. In the R&T article a 26K base price was hinted at in the US. So if the conversion factor is the same as with the Miata I get:

21(Miata USD) 26(RX-8 USD)
------------- = -----------------
27(Miata CDN) X(RX-8 CDN)

X = 33.4K CDN

I've got my fingers crossed! Even 36K CDN would be reasonable.

Well I already bought what I was considering, but I might jump right back out of it. I was looking at 330's, IS300, TLS, S4. Most of these were more than I wanted to spend. So I looked at what I was getting for my money. Looked at what the others had that I could live with out and settled for the Acura TL-S. It had more room by far than the others and that played a big rolled since we had the baby and all. The S4 new was about 10k more than I wanted to spend and the 330 was the same when I added the options I wanted. They started out at a nice price but you didn't even get power seats. What kind of crap is that. The IS300's interior about made me puke. Needless to say I got power everything, Navi, Leather, heated seats, and mirrors, sunroof, 17's, 260hp, etc. for $31,200. So far I've been real happy with it, but I love the RX-8, so it might be gone. I've actually beat a couple of 98 year model stangs on the highway with it. After 100-110 the overdrive gear kicks in and they get a little dogish though. So that's it. I didn't look at Nissan/Infinity because to me they've always seemed to be cheap looking inside. The new Altima was temping but...nahh

While I am most likely getting an RX8 the new EVO VII seems likes its gonna be wicked, and less costly then the Subie counterpart. Nissan 350Z isnt even in the question as I dont like the way it looks.

Alas, they are tough to find with low miles in this price range.

I'm looking at the 350z, RX8, and the next generation Mustang (04).

I've always kinda liked the Acura 3.2 CL Type-S ... especially now with the 6 speed.

If I don't get a RX8 I'll probably be looking at a Lotus Elise (if it does come to the US) and they say it will start at $38k. If it doesn't make it or makes it here but well over $40k I'll probably look at a RSX Type R. I dont like the weight of the Z. I dont want the Lancer EVO or WRX sti. Also a M3 or Nissan GTR is a consideration but I'd have to save up a bit for one of those.

i was looking at the rx-8 or 350z. both are nice. IMO and had an eye on the evo

but for the practicality issue, i was considering an IS300. kinda wanted it for the 4 drs (lower insurance?), style, name, luxury(kinda), comfort etc. .. . but im still young and i want live life a little. im not in need of a "family car" for quite a few years. and im in no rush to get a new car right now anyways. i'm gonna wait and check out those cars and see which appeals to me the most.

Its an Rx8 or a Lightning. I love the Rx8, hopefully one will be at the next autoshow. The EVO might be a candidate if it arrives soon....

Subaru WRX for the winter, RX-8 for the Summer :)

What do you guys think of the Mazdaspeed Protege. Callaway turbo, with an intercooler, as well as LSD. Racing Beat tuned suspension, same as the MP3's, and an MP3 player stock. Leather inside, body kit and Racing Hart 17" wheels to begin with.
All this for under 22,000 $ US.
Oh yeah, limited edition, only 2,000 made in North America. By the way, the MP3 with identical suspension outhandled a Z06 Corvette and a Ferrrari (forgot which one) in a 60 mph slalom.

Mazda RX-8 ----> even on my death bed, just to say I owned one for those brief seconds of my life :P

Originally posted by BOOSTD 7
I've always kinda liked the Acura 3.2 CL Type-S ... especially now with the 6 speed.
Me too. The CL Type-S is a deceptively fast car and the 6-spd with its new Limited-Slip Differentail will kick ass.

Right now the CL-S goes for abou $32k, which is a bit more than the projected price of the RX8.

yah, but owning a rotary is totally different thing than owning an acura...i personaly have a hard time comapring two cars for that reason alone..rotarys are unique..unlike all the piston motors

Originally posted by RX - 8
yah, but owning a rotary is totally different thing than owning an acura...i personaly have a hard time comapring two cars for that reason alone..rotarys are unique..unlike all the piston motors True, but the question was "what other cars are you looking into". AFAIK the RX8 is the only one with a Rotary coming out :)

But there are other major differences...4 door vs. 2Dr. FWD vs. RWD. Luxury brand vs. Standard brand. etc, etc, etc...

i know what the question was, and if you have read the first page on this thread then you will know what my answer is...my comment was a side note about rotary vs piston!..any problems?

Originally posted by RX - 8
i know what the question was, and if you have read the first page on this thread then you will know what my answer is...my comment was a side note about rotary vs piston!..any problems? No problems dude. Just Checkin :). Anyways if you say an Acura is different because it's got a piston engine you've gotta say the same about the 350Z you're interested in.

I've never driven a rotary engine before, so I really don't know how different they feel. I'm not particularly interested in the RX8 because of it's rotary engine. I just think its gonna be sweet car...It looks cool and it should be fast.

However, the CL-S is a sweet (and highly underrated) car.

Well, it's interesting.... when the RSX-S came out, I was sold on that car as my next vehicle... Then I realized the RX-8 would be under 30k and was convinced that was the car to get... Now, I am smitten by the new G35 coupe... 275 hp, 4 seats, rwd and great looks (IMO). I've also seen the Mini Cooper and like that and I've always liked GTI's but I have had really negative experiences with VWs. If I had the money... I guess the BMW 330ci is the car, it's the car I've always wanted, but it is just too expensive. So... the car of the week for me right now is the G35 coupe, basically a 4 seat 350Z with more refined looks and smoother edges... If you haven't seen the G35 coupe, find some pictures on the web... sorry for the rambling message... there are so many sporty cars now in so many different styles and ranges...

'Bout the Protege, I currently drive a 2001 ES fully loaded. Although it does it's job exceptionally well I'm getting anxious to ditch it. First of all, it's gearing sucks (3K RPM at 100 kph) making long highway trips annoying, and it's seats (especially the lumbar - or lack thereof) are the worse I've ever sampled. I'm begging with pain to get out after 30 minutes. I've tried all adjustments, and no other car has given me the same grief...

This leads to the new MazdaSpeed Protege which has the exact same gearing, and the same seats (different cover though). Somehow, it's also gained 150 lbs (2800 curb weight). Stock internal indicate that turning up the wick will be limited before things get really expensive. Cool in that you get so much aftermarket gear with the car, which could save a lot of coin in the long run. The LSD is an awesome addition as well.

I'm going to test drive a Cooper this aft to see what this thing is all about.

Took the Mini (non S) for a spin on Friday. It did have the Cooper S suspension sport settings, and performance rubber. Beyond the novelty of it's appearance, the Mini is not a bad car, worth $26+ K Cdn ($30K+ for the S)??? Not me, thanks. Typical front-wheel driver with pretty good handling (sales man wouldn't let me disable the DSC-skid control). Similar power to the Protege 2 liter with much better handling of course. I didn't care for the shifting throws, the weight of the shifting, or the size of the shift knob (which was quite large). The centre-mounted speedometer was a pain to get used to. The general ergonomics were poorly laid out - something which could be easy to tire of after the novelty is gone. There was a surprising amount of wind noise due to the steep windshield, and even a lot more than expected noise with the windows open. Brakes were quite good. You actually sit almost in the middle of the car, which is surprising because you'd think looking at it that you would end up sitting much further forward. Surprisingly, the leatherette fabric was quite convincing.

Was it as much fun as I expected? No, and that isn't mainly based on power. It's based on nimblness, braking, power, ergonomics, all the thing that made an FD the ride of a lifetime.

Taking into account that the only difference between the Cooper and the S is in power and a 6 speed, the whole package does not seem to be as good of a car compare to it's closest rival (IMO) the Acura RSX Type S. I know the Cooper S has 40 more HP than the Cooper, but it weights 200 lbs more than the Cooper, and is still 40 hp under a Type S, despite being only 100 lbs lighter. The Type S was quieter, more refined ergonomics and fabic quality, has more room, handled almost as well, and based on the power to weight ratios to a Cooper S, a hell of a lot more quicker.

Next...

Well I ordered my car today....and its not a Mazda product. After repeated calls to my dealer and even a stop at a bigger dealer in the NYC area, their total lack of info and help on the subject totally turned me off to the idea of purchasing an RX8?

Why you ask? Why did I make such a decision? Because quite frankly, hearing the words, "I dont know" spatted at you in every politically correct and friendly way are enough to make your head spin and look the other way...at another car company. The car comany I looked at was MINI. And they got my business. I went to my Mazda dealer requested my 500 Dollar check and they did so after a little bit of a hassle. And I made the phone call to the mini dealer asking where it is I should drop off my check and for how much to make it out for. I then placed a $1,000 dollar check in the hands of the man in charge of the mini's in Northern New Jersey. He answered all my questions and told me like it is. He even went so far as to tell what options will be available when and how the cars are coming over....not just "I dunno."

Is the car an FD RX7? Nope. Is it an RX8? Nope. Is it something that I am getting more bang for the buck? Most likely. Will it be fun to drive? I'll let you know. And rumors are flying that the Mini on all season tires scored rather well on the Slalom test that Road and Track threw at it. Beating all of the cars that Road and track has ever tested (street legal cars mind you) except for two Turbo AWD Porsches. Truth to that? Possible...but i need confirmation.

"nimblness" ? I dont think you can find a car as nimble as Mini, and no, Cooper S doesnt have the same suspension as Cooper with Sport suspension, but nevertheless... Mini is a hot hatch, not a sports coupe... big diff overall

Sorry spywolf, the Cooper with Sport calibration 2 is identical to the Cooper S, and not only that, the Cooper is 200 lbs lighter! The Cooper also came with performance rubber which the S with factory 16" don't. The optional 17" are not a factor b/c they're 25lbs (in total) heavier than the 16". If you're going to test a nimble Cooper, that is the best bet.

Maybe the performance was muted because the demo Cooper came with the optional 50+lbs sunroof, and maybe the extra weight of the salesman effect the sensation (I'm really trying to find excuses here), or maybe it was because of the hyped-up handling this car has. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice peppy car with BWM build quality and technology, with very pleasant looks (in the flesh it's even better). But it still comes down to being a FWD car with typical power to weight ratio of other hot hatches. Regardless of vehicle classification (ie: hatch, convertible, or sport coupe), it wasn't as much fun as I'd hoped. Who knows, maybe the RX-8 won't be either....

Honestly, I've felt the exact same as veloracing several times. I'm *really* disappointed at how slow Mazda is on getting off their behind and releasing the damn thing. I'm more worried about waiting another full year and then learning that the final specs are disappointing (such as the curb weight), or an inflated price reducing the bang for the buck. But how many other fairly powerful rear wheel drive 4 seaters are there out there besides the oh-so-common Bimmer?

MINI's arent about power and the really power hungry should look elsewhere, but about the only time you can see the real power of a mini is when you take your friends mini out for a drive and you start railing it into the corners.....thats where the mini is untouchable. BTW First minis had 37 HP.

Not trying to be defensive here, just to clarify my point. I wasn't just talking about power, I was talking about nimbleness as well - which it was, but no more than a typical aftermarket prep'd vehicle. It simply wasn't as fun as I'd thought. I'm curious to see who'd do better in AutoX down the road, Mini S or RX-8. RX-8 maybe be 300 lbs heavier, but it will have better weight distribution, more power, a LSD, and RWD going for it. The longer wheelbase and torque-less engine will definitely be cons.

IMO, I was disappointed in that Mini didn't have more oomph (yes, I didn't try the S, but hp/power ratio is publicly available along with 0-60 times of low 7s). Also, a car of this performance has to come with a LSD, which no matter how one dices it, is superior to electronic traction control. No, it's not all about power, but for $30K+ Cdn, I'd like more than 160hp, especially with the S curb weight of 2675lbs (without the heavier 17" wheels and sunroof). That's almost identical power to weight ratio of a base RSX. For a car boasting excellent performance, it came up a little short in some aspects. Besides that, it was an impressive package, and a definite hit for many.

Honestly, as spiritful as the RX-8 may be, if I was power-oriented, I wouldn't be on this board. :cool:

fritzman, sorry dude... Cooper S has bigger anti-roll bars, stiffer springs not jut different suspension setup (to the point of being a bit too hard on your bones, sport suspension on Cooper would be just fine)... 6 speed manual is a getrag with much shorter ratios and different overall feel... power to weight ratio of S is 1:16.9 while Cooper is 1:21.9. Plus you get more torque, a lot more... S goes 0-60 in 6.9 based on BMW claims...

Thats like checking out new Civic Si and coming out dissapointed at Civic Type R (actually thats a good example - lots of ppl are dissapointed by SI while everyone is crazy about Type-R) ;-)

Besides, Mini is not about sheer speed, I suspect that RX-8 will beat it on the track (much more power)... but Mini is all about nimbleness , and I would think that Cooper S would be the fastest car in slalom that R&T ever tested, normal Cooper is just marginally slower than Porsche GT2

All of that being said, you are perfectly correct in not liking Mini. It is your money, it is your choice. RX-8 has advantages over mini... it is a different car than mini. You sit differently, you drive differently, a lot of differences... and thats fine... driving experience overall in Mini will be very much different than RX-8, and you better like what you spend your money on ;-)

I will be waiting for RX-8 before i make my decision, so far I like it a lot...but it really depends on the pricing in my market... for instance Toyota Celica GTS cost $32k in my market, yeah sure ;-)... if mazda goes with similar pricing, I will get Cooper S for sure ($9k difference is a lot)

I think I understand the confusion. Coopers in North America are not yet available with Sport Calibration II option (Cooper S suspension), although they are an option in Europe, and did come pre-spec'd in Canadian Coopers (along with Sport seats). I've reads threads on it (Cooper optional sport suspension (http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=5539&highlight=suspension+sport) ), and even asked the dealer during the test drive. I wanted to make sure I was unbiased in assessing the handling traits, especially b/c there was not a Cooper S to test drive. Note the factory Cooper comes with Sport 1 calibration.
Besides that, yes, the torque and extra cog could make things a little more different for the Cooper S in accleration, but not necessarily in handling, especially with an extra 200 lbs on board. Don't be too fooled with the slalom results. Yes, they are impressive, but remember the car is very narrow hence left-right transition are less dramatic, resulting in a quicker time. On a track (or AutoX to a certain extent), the advantage will not be as strong.

BMW published 7.4 for 0-100 kph (approx 62 MPH) on other official MINI sites such as the Canadian & UK sites. It's possible there's an extra shift to 3rd to get to 100 kph, hence the extra .5 second. Here's a thread on the topic.
0-60 Cooper S (http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=5466) . IMO, that's still barely adequate for a car of that price and performance orientation.

Actually, I quite like the MINI Cooper S. It's very nice looking, packed with technology, and refreshing. I would have put a deposit down on one had come with 200 hp, a LSD, and weighed closer to 2600 lbs. These things can be done with aftermarket assistance, but the resulting cost would be damn close to a base RX-8.

For now, I can wait and see what else comes... :cool:

Frtiz, actually here is the suspension deal.. as too engine, dunno really... Mini has more torque at much much lower RPM.

Sport Suspension - optional on Cooper
Sport Suspension PLUS - standard on Cooper S, not avaiable on Cooper (european naming)

2nd of all, we are talking about almost fully loaded Cooper S for $24k.... Cooper S "base", starts at $20k... and you definetly cant get any other car with that good handling + speed for $20k...

RSX Type S - base version starts at $24
maybe I am wrong, there is some other cars that cost as much? Celica GTS is not as good and costs more, RSX is there somewhere but more expensive anyway

Anyway Fritz, I think you are waiting for Type R to come to USA, according to CAR mag (brits) it was awesome crazy ride, totally cool... our croatian dealer decided to price to price Hondas close to Ferrari's (well almost, but they some crazy pricing and we have no honda's at all, why would you pay $20k for a base 1.6 civic? wtf)

Fritz, rear wheel drive isnt a benefactor to car all the time. Its all a matter to wether or not one can make use of the benefits of all of the features of each drivetrain lay out. Note yes the RX8 has a projected 50:50 weight layout, the MINI's wheel base and total lack of Torque steer and its comparatively wide body are gonna make it hard to beat in the twisties. Even though it IS fwd.

My prices are Cdn. quoted. A fully loaded S would be close to $40K, and they start at $29. Now you guys can see what we've got to deal with, even though our standard of living is relatively the same...

Guess we're just speculating on handling, but simple physics dictate that FWD will not have as much traction available as RWD. Would definitely be a close battle. I definitely plan on taking my future RX-8 autoX'ing and see how she does against Minis. :)

Actually, I'm more interested in the RX-8 than the R because it will have RWD, most likely a quieter and more refined ride, and can carry 4 passengers easily.

Frtizman, ur an oximoron, but thats fine ;-)

Type R is not too refined or quiet, its supposed to be a pocket rocket but based on what I read so far, its handling is a bit too uninvolving, typical of jap built car... they compared Clio 172 quite favorably to it... (and Clio 172 costs only $20k with full equipment, everything, leather, auto air, xenons, 16" wheels, 6 cd changer + RDS, eletric sunroof, heated seats)

I hope new Clio coming out next year will stay as sporty as Clio 172 version... just won Hot Hatch of the year in Britain, and they know a lot about Hot Hatches... thats another car I might get, Cooper S is a little bit more expensive than that

Guess we're just speculating on handling, but simple physics dictate that FWD will not have as much traction available as RWD.

That DEPENDS, where are we using this traction? underbraking before a chicane or on the drag strip?

As far as handling goes, the MINI (non S) out handled the PORSCHE 911 GT2 on the slalom course. Is that good?

OK, where does it say I want a Type R? :confused: Sure, I'm curious to see how it compares, but I don't want one.

My point is that for $30K + Cdn, I want more than a hot performing front wheel drive (that includes the likes of a 3.5SE Altima). That's a lot of cash! It takes us Canadians as much effort (if not more due to our ridiculous tax rates) to earn that cash as our fellow Americans. So here's the question, would you pay over $30K USD on a FWD sporty natured vehicle with no LDS and only 160 hp? I know I won't, hence I target the Evo or Infinity G35 as potential models comparable to the RX-8. None are FWD, all are powerful, sophisitcated platforms which can carry 4 quite well. There's nothing oximoronic to my stated market of intent.

Sure the Mini is sporty, and really is a BWM reskinned with a different drivetrain layout. The slalom is a impressive number, but I believe its more due to it's chassis width than actual better-than-Porsche-handling. There's more to handling than left-right transitions. The Mini, as all other FWDs, will suffer most in the throttle-on-exit handling trait due to lack of traction from the drivetrain layout and that is has no LSD.

Originally posted by FritzMan
OK, where does it say I want a Type R? :confused: Sure, I'm curious to see how it compares, but I don't want one.


Man, I am sick of Canadians complaining about their own currency... are you trying to tell me that minimum wage in McDonalds is $3.5 US? No, I dont think so... ;-)
Canada has higher standard of living than USA... so all canadians in the world, please stop complaining... you won the olympic gold in hockey, there you go...


All right, now to the Type R... I thought orignally that you might like it since its more radical than Mini Cooper S... however, you then went on to say that you want to pay low amounts of money for RWD or AWD car, with lots of power, low weight and lots of standard equipment (plus it has to have refined ride and carry 4 passangers)... hence me calling you oxymoron and I am sticking by it... ;-)

Candadians are angry for one reason....shrinkage.

Ohhhhhhh! Let's see how 'endowed' you US males are in our climate! ;)

Regarding our currency, here's an example on pay. A typical senior IT guy makes about 100K depending on where they're physically located (I know these things b/c I've entertained offers for same job description in both countries). Now if cars cost 40 - 50% more, as do other goods manufactured outside of Canada, it will effect our standard of living compared to our American neighbours. There's a reason why we've got something called 'brain drain' in Canada, it's b/c all the skilled labour is going to the US. They can simply work there until retirement and then get a 60% spike in their effective cash when they come back to Canada. Our taxes are higher (I paid gross of 50% this year in income taxes), and we can't write off mortgage interest.

And don't even begin to say our social system is better. It's run by the government, need I say more? :rolleyes:

But yes, a gold in hockey does keep spark some patriotism. :D

at least you dont have to fund a huge army...you have what? 2 mounties? eh?

Originally posted by veloceracing
at least you dont have to fund a huge army...you have what? 2 mounties? eh?

man, I can imagine red cavalry riding after Taliban in Afganistan... that would be an awesome shot.

I keep mentioning that to my Canadian friends and they keep getting mad... hmph

ahhhhhhhh...

4 canadian soldiers killed in afganistan because of friendly fire...... ahhhhhhh

Ahhh yes.. the RX-8 forum's first flame thread, over a non-auto topic. Be kewl guys... :)

just cuz we have the better army doesnt mean we can shoot....

Originally posted by Toadman
...kewl...
Okay then, let's make fun of your spelling skilz. :D

I'm also looking into this:

http://www.k1-styling.sk/attack.htm

Seriously.

What do you think?


Luke.

any1 here has Celica GTS? My final choices will probably be between Mini Cooper S, Celica TS (GTS + extra options for Euro market) & Mazda RX-8

the thing is that my family will open a toyota dealership, so I can get it at significant discount...

another thing is that Mini Cooper S will still be cheaper with more equipment... and no1 still knows anything about how much RX-8 will be... so post ur experiences with Celica GTS if you have them

Originally posted by DANNER
car...It looks cool and it should be fast.

Fast? In comparison to what? I don't think it will be fast. I am comparing it to my '93 RX-7. It's going to drive like a Honda S2000. High revving, high strung motor. The only way to get power out of it will be either nitrous oxide, a supercharger, or turbocharger. I predict about mid to upper 14s with the car in the ¼ mile.

Originally posted by FritzMan
Honestly, I've felt the exact same as veloracing several times. I'm *really* disappointed at how slow Mazda is on getting off their behind and releasing the damn thing. I'm more worried about waiting another full year and then learning that the final specs are disappointing (such as the curb weight), or an inflated price reducing the bang for the buck. But how many other fairly powerful rear wheel drive 4 seaters are there out there besides the oh-so-common Bimmer?

Hmmm... Mazda has stated that the intended roll out of the car was Fall-Winter 2002 to Spring 2003. Mazda has gotten off their behind. Velo experienced problems with a Mazda dealer. And anyone who has had a Mazda (including myself with an RX-7), knows that their customer service... wait a second, they have customer service??? I didn't think so.

That is one huge problem they have to address. Hopefully Ford pushes them in the right direction. Salesmen are usually clueless. When I was looking at a Mazda MP3, and told the sales guy about my RX, he started spouting specs about the car and all sorts of trash. 300HP from the factory? In his dreams. I walked out of there fast. When I order my RX-8, it will be at least the second model year, and through an online service. No more dealing directly with the dealer.

they are just humans, and you are asking them about info that they read in magazines like yourself, if they had super human abilities, they would own the place, not work in it

If the salesmen actually read the magazines, they would have their figures correct. The 3rd generation RX-7 has 255 HP from the factory. I don't expect them to know everything, but at least be honest with me when I am buying a car.

if they had super human abilities, they would own the place, not work in it

I wonder if the owner of a VW/Kia/Mazda dealership knows every fact about the cars he/she sells and services.

Well, I'd rather they delay the release and work out all the bugs. Gives me more time to save up.

I'm in the same boat as the rest of the Canucks on this board. I'm waiting to see MSRP on the car before I fully commit. Its my top choice right now, too sexy for its own good. :cool: Love rotary engines, and its amazing the amount of room inside considering its outside dimensions. More rear legroom than the 626, exterior dimensions identical (almost) the NSX (except height). Amazing. What a great packaging job.

Other cars I'm looking at:
- Mitsubishi EVO VII, depending on more details being released about this car (mainly pricing and release date, and if they "soften" it for our market).

- Lexus IS300, like the styling, love the straight-6

- Miata or Honda S2000 (but I think I need rear seats for occasional use, no matter how small they are). Porshe Boxter (heh heh yeah right, maybe if they drop the price $30000...)

- Celica GTS, RSX Type S (wish they were RWD and a few thousand cheaper)

- VW Golf GTi or Jetta 1.8T, now that they've got 180 HP and tighter suspension. Prices are getting a little high though.

- BMW 325ti. I like the idea of their excellent 2.5L 6 in a short RWD wheelbase. Haven't heard anything about this for a while though. Is it still coming to North America?

you mean new compact (bmw 325ti)? It will actually now be refreshed, only 12 months after it came out... I think BMW set the record on that one... its pretty pathetic that their new design chief has no clue about wtf is he doing.

so I suspect that new version will come to the states as well... luckily for us, since the one that came out last year was the ugliest bmw ever...

Originally posted by spwolf
you mean new compact (bmw 325ti)? It will actually now be refreshed, only 12 months after it came out... I think BMW set the record on that one... its pretty pathetic that their new design chief has no clue about wtf is he doing.

so I suspect that new version will come to the states as well... luckily for us, since the one that came out last year was the ugliest bmw ever...

Yeah, styling wasn't their strongsuit, thats for sure. Still, I'd have to drive one before I discounted it entirely, although I heard they were pretty "soft" for a bmw.

nah, 325ti was a sweet drive, real 3 series, inside and under... out is the problem... we will see if they can make it any better 2nd try

only other thing is that it is expensive... only a little bit less than similar 3 series ($1,5k less), so for USA, I dont see why would you get it at all...

As to EVO VIII (which is what is goin to USA), it is +$35,000 car, much more radical than WRX (even WRX STi)... inside is cheaper tho...what i read from brits so far is that they think its crazily good and better than WRX STi

Yup, it's starting to sound like the Evo is getting up there in coin. From a performance stand-point probably worth it though.

I agree with all your points Grimace, except I don't care for the Celica's styling. The S is nice but just a little too much coin for no HID, LSD, or traction control. I'm dying of curiosity to see if they make any changes for '03. Typically Honda doesn't make dramatic changes so quickly but I've read the sales have been less than impressive, and they are showing off that "Concept RSX". It's not like they don't have these parts developed as they're all available in Japan. If I had to bet though, they'll probably come out in typical Honda-exciting fashion with a new color or something lame like that. :rolleyes:

What about the Mazda6? Nice looking, totally functional package (I like the 5 door), 220hp V6 is a good starting point, and they'll have a sport version with 17" rims. For me, the only real knock against it is the FWD. From a price standpoint, it will help predict the RX8 placement. There's no way Mazda will overlap two sedan models. I imagine Mazda will start the 6 at $25K Cdn (right above the Protege), and a fully equipped version will reach $34 Cdn. That will make it compete with the Altima, Camry, and Accord. The RX-8 will then start with a base version around $35-$36K Cdn up to low $40K. The RX-8 pricing will be targeted against the likes of Nissan 350Z, Inifinty G35, and entry level 3 series Bimmers and C class Benzes. I'll bet I'm not far off...

Food for thought... the 350Z starts at 45K CDN! :eek: Lets hope Mazda is well under that mark!

I'm hoping for a 35K starting point.

Rumor has it they are shooting for under 30k to start.

If the car goes for under $30K in the U.S, then the Canucks will be paying at least a few grand more. CAN $1.00 = US $.64

Originally posted by FritzMan
Yup, it's starting to sound like the Evo is getting up there in coin. From a performance stand-point probably worth it though.

I agree with all your points Grimace, except I don't care for the Celica's styling. The S is nice but just a little too much coin for no HID, LSD, or traction control. I'm dying of curiosity to see if they make any changes for '03. Typically Honda doesn't make dramatic changes so quickly but I've read the sales have been less than impressive, and they are showing off that "Concept RSX". It's not like they don't have these parts developed as they're all available in Japan. If I had to bet though, they'll probably come out in typical Honda-exciting fashion with a new color or something lame like that. :rolleyes:

What about the Mazda6? Nice looking, totally functional package (I like the 5 door), 220hp V6 is a good starting point, and they'll have a sport version with 17" rims. For me, the only real knock against it is the FWD. From a price standpoint, it will help predict the RX8 placement. There's no way Mazda will overlap two sedan models. I imagine Mazda will start the 6 at $25K Cdn (right above the Protege), and a fully equipped version will reach $34 Cdn. That will make it compete with the Altima, Camry, and Accord. The RX-8 will then start with a base version around $35-$36K Cdn up to low $40K. The RX-8 pricing will be targeted against the likes of Nissan 350Z, Inifinty G35, and entry level 3 series Bimmers and C class Benzes. I'll bet I'm not far off...

I'm a strange one- I really like the Celica's styling, although it'll look old in a few more years. The new celica is slated to come out 2004, but I'm not sure if the car I'm driving now will hold out that long. As for the Acura, I think it'll be a while before we see a new RSX (remember how long the previous Integra was around for?) Its styling is kind of ho-hum, but at least won't attract the cops. Stock tires are less than stellar too. And its a little expense considering the RSX Premium is $4000 less, and has every option the Type-S has except the bose subwoofer. Torque is at a much more usuable RPM level too in the Premium. HP curves are almost identical until 6000 RPM. Decisions...

The 6 is very sexy for a sedan; I forgot to include it in the list! I read a review in World of Wheels (a canadian mag for those south of the border) of the 4-cylinder 6 with the sport suspension and 17" wheels (available in that configuration in Europe) and they really liked the new 4-banger, almost more than the 6-cylinder. Handling was improved with less weight over the front axle. I'd have to drive both, of course! I saw the 6 at the autoshow in Toronto, and I definately liked it. (Unfortunetly, the RX-8 was at the show only one day, and I missed it, so I haven't seen the yellow one in public).

I bet you're pretty close on the pricing too. As long as its not much higher than that, I could justify a new RX-8 to myself easily. :) Considering a RSX Type S is $31000, and a Celica GTS is in the $30's, an extra $4-5 grand isn't bad considering the RX-8 will (probably) be a much nicer car (IMHO).

I was wondering if handling would be better with the 4 cylinder. It would make sense that it would. I've read that MazdaSpeed Mazda6 model could pressurize the 4 cylinder instead of the V6. It would be nice if the sport package and airbag options did come with the I4. Still, 160 hp from 2.3 liters is not too impressive, considering Honda is getting the same HP with their 2 liter engines on reg gas. I'm amost wondering if it's been detuned or understated to avoid competing with the V6.

What I find most impressive is that Mazda is committed to class-leading handling with features like a double wishbone suspension up front on their 6 and RX-8. Unlike others who have resorted to strut design in the interest of packaging and profit?

If I were to get an RSX, it would be the base. It seems the 6 speed is having grinding issues (like the S2000) and mis-shifts seem to be fairly easy to come by, along with a popped engine. Saving 150+ lbs on the base (50 lbs on the Premium - b/c the sunroof?) would be beneficial, and apparently the base 2 liter can be uncorked to release quite a bit of power... The 7K savings should find you at least 30 NA HP while still using reg gas, and install a LSD, better tires, and better suspension...

FritzMan, you need to have low end torque in sedan such as 6... 100 HP per liter engine would be out of place there... so 163 from 2.0 should be really nice, add a turbo and there you go...zoom, zoom...

Mazda now can look into Ford Mondeo (which is class leading handler, sells in Europe) and take few points from them... they said sporty models might be on par with Modeo's handling..

Too bad Ford USA cant find space in their lineup for Mondeo ST220, that thing owns... instead, we get crappy, plastic Taurus

Grimace - I like Celica's styling too... and I know everyone has been saying that it will grow old soon, but it still has to happen and car has been around for 3 yrs, it is aggresive enough and ahead of its time, I doubt it will grow old that fast

Here's a new write-up on the 6 from a good Canadian review site:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/tl/03mazda6.htm.
Turns out I was close in predicting the starting point. The RX8 is looking more and more like a $35K Cdn. base vehicle...

Actually, the new 6 has a base engine with 2.3 liters of displacement and has variable valve timing and lift duration and a 2 stage induction system. Pumping out 160 HP and approx the same lb/ft with that kind of technology and displacement is a little low. Numbers like 180-190 would be more typical.

oh my god

ahhhhhh

*drools*

so yeah, new G35 is actually cool...as long as you get the coupe

Originally posted by FritzMan
. . .
Turns out I was close in predicting the starting point. The RX8 is looking more and more like a $35K Cdn. base vehicle...


That 's under $22.5k USD!!! Do you really think Mazda will be that agressive in pricing the RX-8? Let's hope it's true. We'll find out in a few months.

If the price is that different in Canada, I am travelling to buy one there. :D Import tax and all. :p

To follow-up on my math skills. I originally thought that the RX-8 would be competing against the likes of the G35, that spwolf is drooling over ;) . The current G35 sedan starts at just under $30k, the coupe will probably start in the low to mid 30's. If the RX-8 starts at under $25k, it will completely annihilate the segment. Just my thoughts as I was also looking at the G35 coupe.

Heh, I was drolling after G35 coupe, it is so much better looking than G35 sedan ;-)

They start at $28k (G35 coupe as well, it is a bit smaller actually), while Mazda might start at $26k at best plus with G35 coupe you get more torque and more HP... interesting

Yes, the coupe is definitely to drool for. I'd be surprised if the G35 coupe came in at the same price as the sedan. I don't think I've ever seen that in the US. Coupe versions are usually a $2k-$3k more than the sedan versions. We'll see.

Anyway, I priced a G35 sedan with the options I wanted and the price went into the mid 30's. This is with mostly "sport" options, i.e. suspension, wheels, spoilers, etc. Hopefully the RX-8 will come with most of the "sport" options as standard at below $30k. I know R&T said that a fully equipped version should be under $30k, but seeing is believing.

http://www.motortrend.com/april02/coupe/coupe_f.html


:D

-Standard wheel fitment will be P225/50VR17 tires up front with P235/50VR17 tires in the rear

-All models will include four-wheel ventilated disc brakes, Brake Assist (BA), Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD), and Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC).

-Beyond the basic power features, the Coupe includes a six-disc CD changer, telematics system, dual-stage front airbags, side airbags, and side curtain airbags


Question is... do you really need those 8 way leather seats and bose stereo for 4k? ;-)

How else am I going to get around the twisties without a nav system.;)

Originally posted by aco
How else am I going to get around the twisties without a nav system.;)

:D :D