Updated : 08/10/2009
- Another Q&A added to the list.
- Updated some information.

Ok, Took a while, its done. Pretty cool. :)

Q&A :

1.What is *Mazda Zoom Power Engine Cleaner" ?
- This is the official *Mazda* Cleaner for use in Rotary Engines.

2. How much does it cost ?
- 20 Dollars Plus shipping, which is, a few bucks.

3. How many times can I use it ?
- You can clean at least 2 engines with it. Or clean ur engine *twice*

4. Where can I get it ?
- You can get it from FinishLinePerformance.Com for 20 Dollars Plus Shipping, Click here for Direct Link (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/store/product.php?productid=17014&cat=355&page=1)

5. What the hell is this DIY all about ?
- This DIY is to show you, how to *clean* your engine using Mazda's Engine Cleaner.
There are other cleaners out there, for example, Seafoam or BG44K, of which, some people swear that it works the same as Mazda's cleaner if not better.
- This DIY exist because a REAL picture can explain the location much better than Mazda's TSB (words + drawings). Oh yes, some people simply can't stand reading Text !

6. What does the *Mazda Zoom Power Engine Cleaner* package include ?
- See the first attached picture from the left.
Just in case that you're *blind*, the package includes the box (lol), a tiny small white tube, the cleaner itself, and some useless warning stickers (not shown, its in the box)
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118732&stc=1&d=1207773309

7. Why would I want to clean my engine ? Its running just fine ! and Do I need to do this every so often ? Like every 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12 months?
- Nope, Do it unless you experience lack of power and/or engine stalling.
- If you have too much free time sure ... but I dont see a reason to shove cold meds down before you get a cold.

8. Are there any side effects from doing this ?
- Not that Im aware of, some said it might affect the life of your Catalyst Converter. Mazda didnt say anything in its TSB so I guess not. It should be burned before leaving the engine. Not to mention our CAT is covered up to 80K miles. Out of Warranty? Well, High Flow cats ? or just straight pipe (I prefer cats, I dont like smelly exhaust)

9. Im too stupid/dont have the time to do this, what are my options ?
- You can always do it at a Mazda dealer, but you better be sure that the dealer you're visiting is a *good* one not some assholes, plus prepare them to charge you at least 150 bux for something that will only cost you 20 + shipping + 1-2 hours of your life.
- You can always pay some shop to do it for you.
- Ask another Rx8club.com member to help (probably cost less the other 2 option)

10. What do I need to get this *Done* ?
- Whatever tools you need to take the Airbox/Intake away(not required, but it will make life a lot easier)
- 2-3 hours of ur time depends on how *skillful* you're
- A person OTHER THAN YOURSELF to help you to *start* the engine in the middle of the process! You SHOULD NOT do this cleaning alone !
- A Bottle of the Zoom Zoom Power Cleaner (Or whatever u want, as long as its for THIS purposes)
- Some kind of technical knowledge/common sense.
- A Strong Enough Battery. Since you will be cranking your engine for almost a minute in total, which puts ALOT of stress on the battery. Beware : Stock battery might crap out/die/not good after the cleaning.

11. I wanna remind you guys, this DIY applies to 04-08 Model Year ONLY. IT seems that on the 09+ Mazda has removed the nipples on the engine. Which are required for this project. I have no access to a 09+ plus the TSB has no word about how to clean a 09+.

12. Should I just spray this thing into my engine, then let it sit overnight so it will eat all my Carbon deposit !!!! ????
- Nope, DO NOT do that,
- this z00m z00m cleaner will work ONLY when your engine is still warm/hot. if you let it sit overnight, the solution will be gone, and your carbon deposit will be hard again in one big whole piece sits at the bottom of your engine. Not good. So just make sure your engine is hot by driving around for 15-20 minutes in slow traffic.

One more thing I want to remind all of you, when you spray this thing into your engine, it "practically" will "eat" everything in there, even engine oil. Mazda's official way is --- After they spray the thing in and sit for an hour, they will plug the computer into the OBDII port and TURN the MOP/OMP rate to 30 (60 is max). so when the car start the engine will get more oil for lubrication.(stock is like what, 3 ? I forgot right now). So if you're going to do this yourself, you MIGHT WANT TO premix "heavier than usual" beforehand.

Notice: Im providing this DIY to you *AS IS* with no warranty, Im not responsible for any damages you might do to your car or your arms/legs/life/whatever. Do this cleaning at your own risk ! :lol:

1. You have to buy the Cleaner itself (Duh)

2. Prepare to spend at least 2 hours of your life for this project.

3. Engine must be warm up before cleaning, so what you can do it give it a spin around the block for 10-15 minutes till it warms up, then push it HARD for another 5 minutes or so, Cuz depends on ur location the engine will cool off and the cleaning might not be as effective.

In picture one, You see that the "Temp" gauge is at about 1/2 way. but dont not be fooled by this ! Drive it around for another 15 minutes or so. Because the gauge will reach middle when your coolant is about 150f. which is NOT HOT ENOUGH. So after it reach 1/2 way, drive it for another 15 minutes in slow traffic. remember this ;)

(Forget about Gauges on the right, thats NYCGPS's special :lol:)

4. Pop the hood.

5. See Picture 2. In the TSB, it tells you to disconnect the connector on the *left* only, but I just pull the right one as well. You dont need them for this cleaning job anyway.

6. Step, You should disconnect the Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor, Its located allllllllll the way in the bottom, right next to the *big* Pulley. I took Picture 3 Under the car. If you have a small hand and somehow can *take* the connector off, you can skip the next step.

7. I had a little problem trying to take the Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor connector off, because my hands are too big to go from the bottom, and kinda too short to go from the top. So what I did was I remove my Intake, to get a *clear path* in between, After the Intake removal it took me 10 seconds to pop the connector loose. See picture 4. (For Intake removal, you can read the service manual, nothing scary really, I think u just need 10mm nut)

8. Now, go to the Left side, right next to the Washer Fluid Bottle. There is 2 nipple sticking out covered with Black Plastic caps. See picture 1.

9. Clearer picture of what the nipple looks like, Picture 2.

10. To have better access, you might want to remove the washer fluid bottle for a while. to give you more *working* space. You need to take 2 10mm bolt out. See Picture 3.

11. In Picture 4, This is what the Nipple look like after the plastic Cap is *Off*

12. Then take the bottle of the Cleaner, stick the White little tube into it, stick the other end into the nipple (about 1 inch)

13. Hold on to the cleaner DONT spray it yet, tell someone to *start/crank* the engine for you, as soon as he/she starts the engine(The engine will not start so dont worry, because you pull the Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor connector off earlier remeber?) start spraying the cleaner for about 10 to 15 seconds, after 10-15 seconds, YELL at the person so he/she stops cranking the engine, at the same time stop spraying the cleaner.
Notice: be sure that the tube its in the nipple. Cuz if it falls out then those cleaner gonna be all over your engine bay.

14. After u stop, wait at least a minute before you repeat Step 13 one more time.

15. Close the nipple, do the same thing to the other nipple.

16. After everything is done. Let it sit for a least an hour something. Now its a good time to put everything back together.

17. After its been there for an hour or 2, Now its time to start her up ! First make SURE that you put everything together the way it was. ESPECIALLY the Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor connector.

18. Make sure no one is around, cuz its gonna smell. FIRE THE BABY UP ! At this time, you can let the engine suck about 1/8 cup of CLEAN ENGINE OIL or 2 Stroke oil premix into the nipple for extra lubrication. Its going to smell really bad and you'll see TONS of white smoke out of your exhaust ... See pictures.

19. Stay in Neutral, rev the car to around 1.5K till it warms up, More smoke comes out.

20. After its back to Normal Operating Temp. Give a few quick Full throttle Rev to 6K rpm or so. Rev it to Redline if you want to, thats what I did. (the TSB saids rev it 20 times up to 6 K, but I like it to Redline more, its ur choice)

21. Let it go back to idle.

22. Turn it off.

23. You're Done :) Go ZooM zOOm all you want ! (And prepare for neighbor's complain about the funny smell)

Nice good luck, hope it goes without a hitch.

you think I"m actually going to follow YOUR instructions?! haha, just messin' with ya bro.

Can't wait to see how this goes.

Sounds like it went well then. Yeah?

I see you're further bankrupting yourself...

Seafoam*? :)

update?

just got mine done and it feels yummier......

Hey,

I noticed that at least one person has bought the decarbonization engine cleaner from mazda.

I know when I use the stuff at work the only directions are the one on the can....which arent the directions mazda wants you to use.

Have you guys found the official mazda instructions as per the TSB or would you like me to post them?

meh I'll just post them:
A - CARBON REMOVAL PROCEDURE
WARNING:
PLEASE USE CAUTION WHEN USING ENGINE CLEANER.
WEAR EYE PROTECTION AND GLOVES WHEN HANDLING.
ENGINE CLEANER IS FLAMMABLE.

NOTE: An assistant may be necessary while performing this procedure.

Approximately half a can of engine cleaner will be used per vehicle during this repair.

1. Start engine and warm to operating temperature. Turn engine off.

2. Cleaner kit comes with engine cleaner (A) and engine cleaner spray hose (B).

3. Disconnect Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor (ESPS) B1-27 connector.

NOTE: This will cut fuel injection and spark while performing the procedure.

4. Disconnect the secondary air injection pump connector B1-04.

5. Remove the front vacuum plug or vacuum hose from the passenger side of the lower intake manifold.

NOTE: 2006 model year and later vehicles have vacuum hoses attached to these ports for the PCV system. Disconnect these hoses from the lower intake manifold ports one at a time when performing this procedure. These hoses do not need to be plugged once disconnected.

CAUTION: DO NOT attempt to service both vacuum ports at the same time. Perform procedure for front port, then perform procedure for rear port.

6. Insert engine cleaner spray hose (B) into front port nipple (C).

7. Attach engine cleaner spray hose to engine cleaner spray can nozzle.

8. Have an assistant crank the engine. While cranking the engine, simultaneously depress the spray nozzle of the engine cleaner for a duration of 10 seconds. After 10 seconds, stop spraying and cranking at the same time. DO NOT depress accelerator pedal while cranking.

9. Wait a minimum of 30 seconds and repeat STEP 6 for the same port.

10. Reconnect vacuum hose or install vacuum plug to front nipple.

11. Repeat STEPS 5-10 for rear nipple.

12. Allow the engine cleaner to soak for at least 1 hour before starting engine.

13. Connect ESPS connector B1-27.

14. Attempt to start engine without depressing accelerator pedal.

15. Keep engine running between 1500-2000 RPM until engine speed has stabilized. Maintain this engine speed until all smoke has dissipated and / or engine has come to full operating temperature.

CAUTION: Do not race the engine during warm-up, this may cause catalyst damage.

16. Rev engine from idle speed up to 6,000 RPM, then release throttle immediately until RPM returns to idle speed.

17. Repeat 20 times with vehicle in Park (AT) or neutral (MT).

18-23. Cant be done outside of dealer, concerns using the IDS Computer System, not necessary anyway. We activate the OMP to 60% for a decent amount of time to help provide extra lube to the chambers since theyll be super dry from the cleaning process. To recreate this at home just connect a vac hose from both of the LIM nipples into a cup of fresh oil and let the engine vac. suck the oil down into the engine

24. Turn engine off.

25. Connect the secondary air injection pump connector B1-04.


huzzah!

BTW mazda part # IIRC is 5555-08-008A, but i have to double check tomorrow.

kevin.

Seafoam*? :)

It has been corrected.

Hmm what was I thinking ... Seaform ... lol

Will finish this DIY tomorrow morning, damn tired.

But I can tell you guys, its )#@$*#@)*$# sWeet after the clean up :)

Done. Hohohoho ~

nice DIY nycgps! I got stuck on step 3, my car doesn't seem to have those gauges on the right. :scratchhe






:rofl:

One question about cranking while your spraying, do you mean manually or someone in the car turning it over. And if you mean manually crank it, how do I do that?

Great DIY man, thanks.

One question about cranking while your spraying, do you mean manually or someone in the car turning it over. And if you mean manually crank it, how do I do that?

Great DIY man, thanks.

Someone in the car has to do the *turning* for you.

I will add this to the Q&A.

nice DIY nycgps! I got stuck on step 3, my car doesn't seem to have those gauges on the right. :scratchhe






:rofl:

rofl !

yeah well ... I cant help it ...

You should ask Mazda where the hell did your *gauges* go ? :lol:

Thanks for the photos nycgps!

anyone with a datalogger want to record before / after pulls? ;)

*sigh*

u really think ppl are stupid.

I think most of us have READ the TSB way before you do, hell actually most of us read it the day this TSB came out. slooooooow

Its ALWAYS easier to read pictures than words.

A: i doubt you saw the tsb before i did, we've known about the coming TSB a long time ago at my mazda.

B) if people dont know where/what the items mentioned in the directions are...they probably shouldnt be spraying anything in their engine.

but hey I was just trying to help prevent you from retyping the mazda tsb, as you did....well except now its the "tsb: illustrated"

kevin.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but picked up some seafoam from an auto parts store and there is no spraying mechanism included. It's just a bottle of liquid. Will I still be able to use this DIY or do I need to be able to spray the stuff?

Well, For Seafoam, u can find some spray bottle, pour the Seafoam in, then just spray it like what u can do with Mazda bottle cleaner, except that u have to keep *pressing* the button to spray it.

You mean like an old windex bottle (rinsed out of course) or something similar?

you scratch your steering wheel a lot doncha?

:P

seriously, what is the gray area hiding in the first pic? a dead body?

you scratch your steering wheel a lot doncha?

:P

seriously, what is the gray area hiding in the first pic? a dead body?

DONT EVEN MENTION THE SCRATCHES !!!!!

If its me I admit ... but its not .... dont ask me how and why ! :rant: :rant:

?

First pic? Its just the cleaner on the floor ?

You mean like an old windex bottle (rinsed out of course) or something similar?

whatever is fine. as long as it can get the job done, right ? :)

how'd you get all those scratches?????


how long did the car smoke for afterwards?

Well, about 2-3 minutes. Enough to kill someone :lol:

wonder if I should just do this or go the route of Seafoam? (inserting via spark plug and letting it sit overnight) hmm....

I think this might be easier, at least you dont have to jack your car up to do it.

Well, U can still pour Seafoam into the nipple. Or just get a spray bottle and spray it in.

Why don't you just flash the Valet mode to your RX8 Jedi.......

Then complain about loss of power.

They'll go WTF!!??

They do the TSB and flash. you will be good to go!

they can't flash our cars when an AP map is on there.

then take the AP map out.

I used the Seafoam, The method is the same with a couple of exceptions. There is no need to pump it into the intake nipples
1. Pour 2oz of Seafoam into a cup
2. Attached flexible tube to nipple (not yours, the car's!)
3. Other end of the hose in cup
4. follow all the other steps


The intake creates enough vacuum to pull the Seafoam out of the cup. Just "start" the car 10 seconds at a time. I found after the 10 seconds the cup would not be completely empty but the vacuum would continue until the cup was finished

The picture of the smoke out the exhaust, just doesn't do it justice:SHOCKED:



Sorry if this is a stupid question, but picked up some seafoam from an auto parts store and there is no spraying mechanism included. It's just a bottle of liquid. Will I still be able to use this DIY or do I need to be able to spray the stuff?

any tips how to make cel go away after that?
car drives normally just that light is annoying

Nevermind. Took it for a spin and light went off after starting again.

Btw mazda tbs tells you to connect that thingie on top after you are done reving.
I went after mazda tbs but I connected it before starting.

Next week I pour it into sparkplugs holes :)

start spraying the cleaner for about 10 to 15 seconds, after 10-15 seconds, YELL at the person so he/she stops cranking the engine, at the same time stop spraying the cleaner.

I'd stick with the 10 seconds in the TSB. Doing this 4 times, overheating of the starter motor is a concern. This is probably also why the 1 minute rest in between.

Give a few quick Full throttle Rev to 6K rpm or so. Rev it to Redline if you want to, thats what I did

Per TSB, rev to 6k, then immediately let off the gas, and do this TWENTY TIMES, not a few. I speculate this is to exercise the apex seals in their slots and dislodge any carbon loosened by the cleaner.

Not that I followed the script exactly either. I used Seafoam and I disconnected the plugs instead of the damn eccentric connector. :spank: :)

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but picked up some seafoam from an auto parts store and there is no spraying mechanism included. It's just a bottle of liquid. Will I still be able to use this DIY or do I need to be able to spray the stuff?

Auto-parts store or garden center will carry a large syringe which is used to measure 2-stroke oil for mixing. It's cheap and has measuring markings on the side. This is what I used to divide the seafoam "doses" and deliver them into the manifold nipple, using a short piece of plastic tubing. For the 16 oz can, I used 2 oz. "doses" This left me with exactly 8 oz, for the next time :).

thanks nycgps!

pics help ^_^

Not that I followed the script exactly either. I used Seafoam and I disconnected the plugs instead of the damn eccentric connector. :spank: :)

If you didn't disconnect the eshaft sensor, how did you make sure no fuel is being sprayed while you're cranking? Accelerator to the floor?

We need this in the DIY section and stickied :)

Not that I followed the script exactly either. I used Seafoam and I disconnected the plugs instead of the damn eccentric connector.
Not a good idea to just remove the plug wires. You need to disable ignition and fuel injection and this does not do that. As an alternative to removing the ES Position Sensor Connector, I believe you can remove all the EGI fuses (3?) in the main fuse box to accomplish the same thing as removing the ES connector.

Another way to access the ES Position Sensor Connector is from under the car. Jack up the left side of the car, install jack stand, crawl under the car and reach up in front of the engine and remove the connector by "pinching" the top of the connector and pulling up on it. Works for me. However, if you have "fat" hands you may not be able to use this approach.

I used the Seafoam, The method is the same with a couple of exceptions. There is no need to pump it into the intake nipples
1. Pour 2oz of Seafoam into a cup
2. Attached flexible tube to nipple (not yours, the car's!)
3. Other end of the hose in cup
4. follow all the other steps


The intake creates enough vacuum to pull the Seafoam out of the cup. Just "start" the car 10 seconds at a time. I found after the 10 seconds the cup would not be completely empty but the vacuum would continue until the cup was finished

The picture of the smoke out the exhaust, just doesn't do it justice:SHOCKED:

That would work.

I'd stick with the 10 seconds in the TSB. Doing this 4 times, overheating of the starter motor is a concern. This is probably also why the 1 minute rest in between.

I dont really worry about my Starter, but For those who worry about it, they can let it rest for a minute or 2 before cranking it again.

I think they should worry about their battery more IMO.

Per TSB, rev to 6k, then immediately let off the gas, and do this TWENTY TIMES, not a few. I speculate this is to exercise the apex seals in their slots and dislodge any carbon loosened by the cleaner.

Maybe, I dont know.

You can do twenty times, but I think pushing it to 9K might be a better idea :)

Not that I followed the script exactly either. I used Seafoam and I disconnected the plugs instead of the damn eccentric connector. :spank: :)

You need to cut fuel injection ...

Not a good idea to just remove the plug wires. You need to disable ignition and fuel injection and this does not do that. As an alternative to removing the ES Position Sensor Connector, I believe you can remove all the EGI fuses (3?) in the main fuse box to accomplish the same thing as removing the ES connector.

Another way to access the ES Position Sensor Connector is from under the car. Jack up the left side of the car, install jack stand, crawl under the car and reach up in front of the engine and remove the connector by "pinching" the top of the connector and pulling up on it. Works for me. However, if you have "fat" hands you may not be able to use this approach.

I cant do it underneath, tried and fail.

I got *fat* hands :(

doing this to 2 rx-8's right now, that Eccentric Shaft sensor is a #$@#@ pain in the ass to get to!

I ended up removing the maf tubing on my car since I'm also cleaning my RB filter and it did give me a little room but the hardest part is twisting your arm around enough to apply pressure on the tab that releases the sensor.


Waiting 2 hours now... will report back later.

DONE.

1st car threw 2 CEL's: Eccentric Shaft and misfire

My car = NO CEL's.

Strange.

Cars running good, not as much smoke as I thought I was going to get. :)

doing this to 2 rx-8's right now, that Eccentric Shaft sensor is a #$@#@ pain in the ass to get to!

I ended up removing the maf tubing on my car since I'm also cleaning my RB filter and it did give me a little room but the hardest part is twisting your arm around enough to apply pressure on the tab that releases the sensor.


Waiting 2 hours now... will report back later.

Didnt I told ya all THAT WILL happen ! :P

good that it works. CEL should go away after a while

I already used my Jedi powers (aka Scanalyzer) to get rid of the CEL's. :)

this sounds like a good idea. in spite of my last little problem last week, i think i will do this. make sure she is all clean and good to go!

Im going to jack my car up today cuz I need to set my suspension higher. Broke my bumper the other day, grrr NYC roads ...

then Im gonna clean my engine for the *2nd* time hohoho ~

probably a really stupid question...but when cranking the engine do u have to depress the clutch?

I did this tonight. Holy crap does that stuff stink when you turn the car on! The smoke was...interesting. After a couple mile drive to see how it feels, my exhaust tips were COATED in soot. The car feels much better now. Idle is smoother, much more responsive. I put 20,000+ miles on my cars each year so this might become an annual maintenance thing. Now I've just got to get the stink out of my car...

probably a really stupid question...but when cranking the engine do u have to depress the clutch?

of course

ny: you cleaned your again?! wow

He doesn't like the dark side.

only the weakest of people fear what they do not understand...

just bought it. its on the way

ny: you cleaned your again?! wow

I didnt clean it that day, I had to do something else.

But Im planning to do the cleaning again after my bumper is fixed. (I got another bottle, btw hahaha)

so tomorrow morning I am gonna bring my car to the body shop to fix up the bumper. Damn freaking NYC roads. Thanks to them I have to repaint the whole bumper. grrRRRRRRrrrrr ...

I did this tonight. Holy crap does that stuff stink when you turn the car on! The smoke was...interesting. After a couple mile drive to see how it feels, my exhaust tips were COATED in soot. The car feels much better now. Idle is smoother, much more responsive. I put 20,000+ miles on my cars each year so this might become an annual maintenance thing. Now I've just got to get the stink out of my car...

I told you ALL that its gonna smell !!!! :lol:

on to the waiting game now.

do what I did: throw in a DVD, drink some beer, and just let it do it's thing. :)

wow. are you stalking me? that is exactly what i am doing.

a true Jedi sees ALL... :suspect:

haha, good point

so been done with it. started it up. it doesnt feel any different. not much smoke came out but did smell REALLY bad. but oh well. at least i know my engine is clean now.

so been done with it. started it up. it doesnt feel any different. not much smoke came out but did smell REALLY bad. but oh well. at least i know my engine is clean now.

not exactly, sometimes the cleaner might not work as well as it sound like.

so u might have to do it one more time.

Im just saying *might*.

How does Seafoam/Mazda cleaner compare to Methanol injection as far as carbon cleaning?
If you already run Methanol, is this Seafoam cleaning useful?

a true Jedi sees ALL... :suspect:

Then how did you get your hand cut off?

he cut it off himself cause he touched his car with it while he was zainoing.

not exactly, sometimes the cleaner might not work as well as it sound like.

so u might have to do it one more time.

Im just saying *might*.

i will do it one more time before i leave.

OK, so quick question. How often/when should this be done?

when ever you feel it needs to be done

GREAT POST MAN

Keep the good work

hahah, u needa add: make sure u keep revving when u 1st restart it, or else ur engine will die and might have to do "deflooding" procedure.. i did

and tat vacuum cap was a BTICH to get off.

hahah, u needa add: make sure u keep revving when u 1st restart it, or else ur engine will die and might have to do "deflooding" procedure.. i did

and tat vacuum cap was a BTICH to get off.

Hmm, I didnt, my car start up fine (it smells tho)

Maybe u just clean some carbon up and you're now having low compressions ? :lol: j/k

yes the Vacuum cap, especially the one near the firewall, is a BITCCCCH to reach/get it off. My hands are probably too big & fat. meh

*nice* DIY *I* really *liked* it, it should *really* help some people *out* there with doing *this* stuff (lol)


One of the possible side effects is if your engine is really carbon'ed up, a big piece can possibly break off and do some damage. But if that happens your motor was a time bomb anyways.

One of the possible side effects is if your engine is really carbon'ed up, a big piece can possibly break off and do some damage. But if that happens your motor was a time bomb anyways.
Based on this, I wonder about 2 things. One is this will help remove ehaust port build up of just housing/rotor build up? Two is how safe it is to do this with a turbo fitted. Assuming you are lucky and any carbon "pieces" pass straight into the exhaust path, whats likely to happen to the turbo?

Ohh and nice DIY! We cant get seafoam over here so I think (depending on answers here) I am going to order the mazda stuff.

Cheers

Andrew

Based on this, I wonder about 2 things. One is this will help remove ehaust port build up of just housing/rotor build up? Two is how safe it is to do this with a turbo fitted. Assuming you are lucky and any carbon "pieces" pass straight into the exhaust path, whats likely to happen to the turbo?

Ohh and nice DIY! We cant get seafoam over here so I think (depending on answers here) I am going to order the mazda stuff.

Cheers

Andrew

it starts at the intake port, when u crank it the vacuum it create will suck the cleaner in and stick around whole rotor housing.

it shouldnt effect a turbo cuz none of the cleaners will get into your turbo.

the cleaner will make the carbon like *mooshy liquid* and when u start it, everything gonna burn together(the cleaner itself is flammable) and push outa the exhaust port.

so my cars got around 90k and Im a new owner of it. I have no idea if this was done ever. I realize that it needs doing I'm just worried about what chickenwafer said above.. dont want my engine to pop this weekend, or ever for that matter.

so my cars got around 90k and Im a new owner of it. I have no idea if this was done ever. I realize that it needs doing I'm just worried about what chickenwafer said above.. dont want my engine to pop this weekend, or ever for that matter.

Well, what u can do is , start slow by using good Fuel System cleaner like RedLine SI-1 for 1-2 tanks of gas. then u do the Mazda Zoom Zoom Cleaner manually.

Just got done doing my Engine cleaning....I am @ 83k. Feels like my rotary is back into action. Thanks for everybody for letting me know that mazda has this product.

Zoom...Zoom!

OK so My 8 has 75,000 and I have a feeling that this was never done to it. My 8 is down right now cause I'm changing the ignition coils, plugs, and wires because I was having some power loss problems. I'm still waiting for my wires to get here from mazdatrix which wont be til wed or thurs. Do you guys think I could do this cleaning and then let it sit until I can get everything put back together or should I just wait and do it once I get the ignition system back up and running. I didn't know if the cleaner would dry up or cause damage to the engine by sitting in it for a day or so. Thanks for your help!

i did thi yesterday and i ws expeting a ton of smoke.... i let it soak 4 two hours.. it only smokes on the start up.. and it hesitated to start but as soon as it stabalized after like 5 seconds i reved it to 6.5K rpm 20 times...

It smelled Like burnt plastic IT WAS SOO FUNKY EWWW but no smoke..

the car had 46K miles and i always use the cleaner int he tank and other engine cleaners but i tried the mazda one and not so much smoke it just smelled bad for a little bit..

I did notice that the engine revved smoother and my intake makes this whistling noise and now it seems its whistling is a little louder but not much.. maybe its just in my head:Eyecrazy:

Ignore my PM nycgps great DIY :)

Cheers
Michael

What happens if you dont unplug the E Shaft sensor?

I have always just gotten a cup of Sea Foam, let the car idel and run a vaccuum line with a T splitter to the 2 nipples and let it gradually suck it up.

What happens if you dont unplug the E Shaft sensor?

I have always just gotten a cup of Sea Foam, let the car idel and run a vaccuum line with a T splitter to the 2 nipples and let it gradually suck it up.

if u dont, the car acts like normal, meaning Fuel will be injected into your engine. not good.

These stuff will melt the carbon down and turn it into "black-ish" liquid thats flammable. So when u start ur engine, it will burn it off.

hey ive heard on RX7 they just put seafoam in the gas tank. like just put a little of it in.. would that be ok in the RX8?

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hey ive heard on RX7 they just put seafoam in the gas tank. like just put a little of it in.. would that be ok in the RX8?
Few people here have done it that way. I believe its good for the smaller issues like sticky apex seals but not the large buildup in the exhaust ports. But thats just my understanding.

Some people actually use Water for decarb, its cheap and easily to find (freaking tap water will do). but it will decrease the life of the CAT significantly.

Few people here have done it that way. I believe its good for the smaller issues like sticky apex seals but not the large buildup in the exhaust ports. But thats just my understanding.

alright im going to try that. do you know how much i should put in? and should i do it with a full tank of gas or what?

Some people actually use Water for decarb, its cheap and easily to find (freaking tap water will do). but it will decrease the life of the CAT significantly.Pure curiosity...why would water decrease cat life? I would have thought of all the options water would be the most cat friendly.

alright im going to try that. do you know how much i should put in? and should i do it with a full tank of gas or what?
Not 100% sure...in fact I have nfi. Do a search for sea foam and you will find a few references.

Cheers

Andrew

Good write up. I did this last night (first time, at 51k miles) and the tip about removing the airbox and washer fluid reservoir saved me some frustration. I didn't even have to crawl under the car. One thing I would add: watch your hands unplugging the e-shaft sensor when your engine is hot! A set of long, curved needle-nose pliers worked well for me. I was able to inject Seafoam using a 2oz syringe and two feet of vacuum hose. The whole process took less than half an hour, not including soaking and start-up, and the difference is amazing.

Noob question. instead of using the back nipple, can you use the the vacuum line coming off the top of that intake? I believe its going to the brake system? Thanks

Thanks for taking time to make this DIY nycgps, I need to do this soon.

Noob question. instead of using the back nipple, can you use the the vacuum line coming off the top of that intake? I believe its going to the brake system? Thanks

if u want to kill your system. then yes. You could.

if u want to kill your system. then yes. You could.

what is wrong with that idea? I know of at least 3 or 4 including my own that have always used this method and had no issues....?

ok so I just did this to my car. I poured in 2 oz's of seafoam into a bottle attached a vacuum hose to the first nipple and put it in the cup cranked the engine for 10 seconds. the did the rear port. let it sit for an hour. on the second port the engine was shaking violently when cranking no idea why.

while waiting I connected everything back together and played some COD4on live.

I came outside started the car took a while to get going and HOLY F^%$.. My neighbors came out thinking I set a tree on fire. My whole street was covered in a plume of smoke . i got a little scared.

so i revved it after the warm up and majority of smoke had dissipated. then I revved it to the 6k 20 times still a bit coming out put some oil in my vacuum line for port 1.

and wow I have to re learn the car it has at least 5 to 10 more hp. keep in mind this car has 101,401. on the clock I'm gonna do it again in 3 weeks. FYI get a Mask so that you don't get a migraine for 10 hours like me after inhaling all that smoke.

P.S. this is a simple DIY if you have any wrenching under your belt.
P.S.S. didn't need a second person just a long enough vacuum line to reach the cup which was supported by the air pump and passenger side strut mount.

I haven't been ableto find any really good videos of this being done to an 8 so I made my own. http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=2622122#post2622122 Tht captured the camera dies at 1:15 but It captures the HUGE cloud of smoke! The car is running muche smoother.:mdrmed:

ok so I just did this to my car. I poured in 2 oz's of seafoam into a bottle attached a vacuum hose to the first nipple and put it in the cup cranked the engine for 10 seconds. the did the rear port. let it sit for an hour. on the second port the engine was shaking violently when cranking no idea why.

while waiting I connected everything back together and played some COD4on live.

I came outside started the car took a while to get going and HOLY F^%$.. My neighbors came out thinking I set a tree on fire. My whole street was covered in a plume of smoke . i got a little scared.

so i revved it after the warm up and majority of smoke had dissipated. then I revved it to the 6k 20 times still a bit coming out put some oil in my vacuum line for port 1.

and wow I have to re learn the car it has at least 5 to 10 more hp. keep in mind this car has 101,401. on the clock I'm gonna do it again in 3 weeks. FYI get a Mask so that you don't get a migraine for 10 hours like me after inhaling all that smoke.

P.S. this is a simple DIY if you have any wrenching under your belt.
P.S.S. didn't need a second person just a long enough vacuum line to reach the cup which was supported by the air pump and passenger side strut mount.

U dont really need a 2nd person, but It will be A LOT easier if u have one. You dont even need that person for more than like 10 minutes anyway.

Oh yes, the smoke is pretty bad. :) I walked away when I do that and it was pretty windy that day so it all blew away in couple of minutes.

If i have an AT would i just hold the accelerator while cranking and call it a day???

If i have an AT would i just hold the accelerator while cranking and call it a day???

If you have an AT then you should take it to the dealer............ and get a MT. :lol:

Really though I think the procedure is the same. And do you mean when starting at the end or when taking in the cleaner?

U dont really need a 2nd person, but It will be A LOT easier if u have one. You dont even need that person for more than like 10 minutes anyway.

Oh yes, the smoke is pretty bad. :) I walked away when I do that and it was pretty windy that day so it all blew away in couple of minutes.

yea i don't get much wind on my side street opps!

next weekend ill do it again with a you tube DIY for those who want to use seafoam.

If i have an AT would i just hold the accelerator while cranking and call it a day???

No need to hold the accelerator, cuz if you unplug the Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor connector like I said in the DIY, no fuel will go in.

alright thanks

Hey guys, even tho im getting a new engine in muh car :D, i know i wont need this but where could you get it? and i dont suppose theres a shelf life?

Hey guys, even tho im getting a new engine in muh car :D, i know i wont need this but where could you get it? and i dont suppose theres a shelf life?

Dont know about shelf life but ... it should be good for a year or 2.

where to get it? You didnt read my first post did you ?

lol... i did, must of missed it...

I just cleaned mine today and all i can say is DDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! this little sucker must of been full of it, my whole block went up in smoke:lol: , my neighbors came out and i had to explain everything:uhh: .....the smell wasnt half bad though i was expecting worse but seriously it looked like a really foggy morning!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!!!:)

I just did mine while I was waiting on the hurricane. Threw a CEL but I had NO smoke. Zero, zilch, none.

My car does have 20K on it and I do drive it aggressively including autocross. Has this happened to anyone else?

So after you decarbed everything is hooked back up and now you have a CEL?

The CEL is normal, its from the sensors being unplugged. It should go away in a day or 2.

Everything is plugged back in. I double checked. The mazda zoom cleaner definitely came out the exhaust, I could smell it. Just no smoke.

Oh yeah that Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor is a pain to get to.

I did this today. Actually getting to and unplugging the ESPS wasn't that bad if it hadn't been for a stupid striped bolt on my RB intake.:rant:

I had to literally get down and dirty with the sawsall :lol: I don't fk around, didn't really want it to come down to it though. :lol2: Some may want to try taking the battery off for a few while you work your way to unplug the ESPS by leaning from the passenger corner of the car.

There was definitely a good amount of smoke once I plugged everything back and started the car. So, I want to think I'm doing more good than bad. I kinda want to do it again after a few thousand more miles.

After doing everything as mention, I didn't really feel a punch after the rpm kicked up. I initially drove the car for a good 12 miles shifting at 3 to 4k rpms. I then hit the highway redlining in 2nd and 3rd.

So am I the only person who didn't get any smoke at all?

I wonder if no smoke is a good thing.

wow i just added a half can of seafoam into my gas tank with a full tank of 93 and i can already tell the difference. it runs a lot smoother. i wish i did this a long time ago

So am I the only person who didn't get any smoke at all?

I wonder if no smoke is a good thing.

It sure helps the lungs.

I didn't get much smoke.

So are all you guys letting it suck up oil when running it after the cleaner has sat for 1-2 hours? One of those early posts detailing the TSB steps said the dealerships sets the OMP to higher flow for this procedure, so is everyone adding an oil feed to the nipples like is suggested, or do people usually skip that?

I didn't

I have premix, so I didnt.

I didn't

And you don't use premix or anything like that? Just did it dry?

And you don't use premix or anything like that? Just did it dry?

That just sounds wrong, :lol: I skipped that step as well.

^lol

well alright. Did anyone do this with a 50K+ miles engine, WITHOUT any additional oil or use of premix?

just being cautious about my engine thats all.

Just did this. Nice DIY. One beer job.

^lol

well alright. Did anyone do this with a 50K+ miles engine, WITHOUT any additional oil or use of premix?

just being cautious about my engine thats all.

i have just over 50k miles on mine. and i just added a half can of seafoam into a full tank of gas (93) and it worked with no problems. It helped out

^lol

well alright. Did anyone do this with a 50K+ miles engine, WITHOUT any additional oil or use of premix?

just being cautious about my engine thats all.

I had about 54k and did it dry right through the nipples :naughty:

I have over 50k miles and use premix. But does it really matter since the eccentric shaft sensor is disconnected no fuel is being injected anyways.

Honestly, I didn't realize there was a step to increase the OMP flow rate.

I have over 50k miles and use premix. But does it really matter since the eccentric shaft sensor is disconnected no fuel is being injected anyways.

Honestly, I didn't realize there was a step to increase the OMP flow rate.

No, they mean they step up the OMP flow AFTER you are running the engine for real to flush out all the cleaner. It said the engine would be very dry from the cleaner, thus increased OMP. But, seems like people are doing fine w/o it. I may play it safe and give it a cup of oil to vaccuum up, dunno.

Gotcha!

What about this point?
18-23. Cant be done outside of dealer, concerns using the IDS Computer System, not necessary anyway. We activate the OMP to 60% for a decent amount of time to help provide extra lube to the chambers since theyll be super dry from the cleaning process. To recreate this at home just connect a vac hose from both of the LIM nipples into a cup of fresh oil and let the engine vac. suck the oil down into the engine

Btw., where could I buy this with delivery to Europe?

Or just put premix more in that tank of gas. say, 16 oz to a tank ?

well but what did you, did you add oil to the tank? or is it not important... ?

i just fill up a separate cup with 2 oz of oil and let each housing suck that up make sure you have someone on the gas at 2k for this though. if you use seafoam it has some conditioners in it since is mostly made up of pale oil which is a lubricant.. I'm not sure if the seafoamers have to put int he extra oil but I figure why not the extra 2oz's cant hurt.

well but what did you, did you add oil to the tank? or is it not important... ?

its not really THAT important IMO. consider the fact that default OMP system never really gave us the kind of lubrication that we need anyway.

its not really THAT important IMO. consider the fact that default OMP system never really gave us the kind of lubrication that we need anyway.

now I am confused :squint:

I just don't want to damage my engine, but want to care about it.
I think that shadycrew31 version is much better, then adding oil to tank, because, how much i know, if You add oil to a tank, you will get a blue smoke from the exhaust.. or am I wrong?!!?!?
shadycrew31 how are you adding oil - in wich order? Can you please explain it more specific.

IF you add oil to the tank, make sure it is oil that is tried and true. It needs to be 2-stroke oil designed for mixing with gas and burning. After reading up on everything, I am going to start premixing regularly Idemitsu Rotary Premix. So after I start that, I don't think I'll worry about extra oil.

Unfortunatley, some morons shipped that oil to the wrong address, so I gotta wait till thats corrected.

The way Shady was detailing was he connected lines to the vacuum nipples that you used to inject the engine cleaner, and then he let them suck up oil from a cup while the engine ran.

Many thanks for your answers!

K..I'm officially confused :p

I have read 2 ways to use either the Mazda Engine Cleaner -or- the Seafoam:

1 - Use the nipple in the engine to suck the solution into the rotary chamber
2 - Add solution to a tankful of gas

Which has been proven? Mechanically in-ept, I prefer the easy way :) Owners who had premixed this with a tankful of gasoline, what are your impressions? Thanks in advance!!

Buy the mazda zoom cleaner and use the supplied plastic hose to spray it directly into the engine.

As many problems as we have with our fuel pumps already I wouldn't put it in the gas tank.

Nice. Will do this soon

K..I'm officially confused :p

I have read 2 ways to use either the Mazda Engine Cleaner -or- the Seafoam:

1 - Use the nipple in the engine to suck the solution into the rotary chamber
2 - Add solution to a tankful of gas

Which has been proven? Mechanically in-ept, I prefer the easy way :) Owners who had premixed this with a tankful of gasoline, what are your impressions? Thanks in advance!!

what what ? put it into ur gas ?

err ... no

Thats not what the zoom zoom cleaner is for.

seriously speaking, the zoom zoom power cleaning is not as hard as it looks. u dont even need to jack the car up or anything. 30 minutes to take da stuff out, 2 minutes for the spray/crank. 1 hour of "sit and wait" time. put everything back. fire it up. 2-3 hours total.

now I am confused :squint:

I just don't want to damage my engine, but want to care about it.
I think that shadycrew31 version is much better, then adding oil to tank, because, how much i know, if You add oil to a tank, you will get a blue smoke from the exhaust.. or am I wrong?!!?!?
shadycrew31 how are you adding oil - in wich order? Can you please explain it more specific.

Before you fire your engine up, suck about 1/4 cup of engine oil the same way u did to spray that zoom zoom cleaner into the engine.

Not hard.

okay..so I did this today.

i got a small white puff of smoke when I turned the car back on after an hour and 15 min and that was it..

don't know what to think.. other than NYCGPS i think i want you to do it for me again ;D

interesting, I think you should have gotten a lot more smoke. Wonder what happened.

okay.. so we did this again today.. nycgps was here to help me out..

once again.. pretty much NO SMOKE WHATSOEVER!!!

so the general consensus was that i'm pretty much carbon free........:o

you're not having any drivability issues are you? nothing to indicate a clogged cat?

you're not having any drivability issues are you? nothing to indicate a clogged cat?

bad mpg (say 12-13mpg) is a indicator of a clogged cat? my exhaust tone may or may not be raspy too..

last time i took it to the dealer to check my cat they threatened to void my warranty due to an aftermarket "computer" (my carpc) and because it was hooked up to the obd2 port

i'd love to check the cat myself but don't have the resources to remove it and check myself...

Yep, I was there and I was surprised too.

the smoke only last for maybe 5 seconds the most and no more.

maybe his engine is too clean ? cant be tho, that zoom zoom stuff should emit smoke when burn, Carbon up or not.

yeah that's what i was thinking, there should be smoke no matter what the carbon cuz the cleaner itself has to come out. Dunno though. When I asked about what a dead cat would result in a while back they said:

"Dead CAT = restricted exhaust flow = runs like it's choking...or not at all"

So whatever that means :-P

You know what could work though? What if you did the cleaner, but took the cat out. See how much smoke comes out of the exhaust manifold. If a ton comes out, I'd say you had a cat problem. If its the same, then I guess all's well. You probably don't want to waste anymore cleaner though. Just an idea.

right.. but my car is not having any sort of drivability issues.. pulls hard all the way to redline...

like I said I would love to be able to take the cat off myself to check it out..

edit:.. what if the cleaner itself was bad?

interesting idea, could be the cleaner itself...

As for taking the cat off, if you got jack, jack stands, and a socket set, It's pretty easy to get off. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

interesting idea, could be the cleaner itself...

As for taking the cat off, if you got jack, jack stands, and a socket set, It's pretty easy to get off. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

right, but taking it off just to take a peak in wouldn't hurt, would it? ;)

this is why i want to get a mazsport dr midpipe anyway!

Oh yeah you could always take a peak. Personally, I don't even know what a healthy cat is supposed to look like though, or how well you can look down one. Though you could always post pictures and get opinions from the pros if it looks right.

I'm in the same boat. When I did the cleaner I had zero smoke. Not even a white puff.

I'm actually thinking that perhaps the Mazda zoom zoom cleaner quickened the catalytic converters death.

My exhaust note changed lately(raspy) and the Mazda zoom zoom cleaner never went away. Everytime I run my car I smell it.

I'll check my cat maybe this weekend. I have a jack and jackstands.

Quick question.

This can while waiting for the 1 hour to pass .. is it possible to change my Tranny fluid and Diff fuild ??

I mean .. should be fine right ?

Yeah should be fine. Tranny fluid isn't connected to the engine. I'd even think you can change your normal oil. It's just foam sitting in the engine working its magic on the carbon buildup. Nothing is running.

Yeah should be fine. Tranny fluid isn't connected to the engine. I'd even think you can change your normal oil. It's just foam sitting in the engine working its magic on the carbon buildup. Nothing is running.


Nice, thats what I thought. I probably wont change my oil. I just did that about 1.5K miles ago ..

Thanks

now I really feel like checking the cat.. gotta bug nycgps for his jackstands again.

I did it today, and not smoke at ALL !! Something I did wrong?

I cant wait to try this out with my xs mid pipe hahaha thats really piss off the neighbors.

lol, yeah i should do it but its so cold out, i feel like im not gonna do any more work on it till spring.

now I really feel like checking the cat.. gotta bug nycgps for his jackstands again.

Its EXTREMELY easy to kill your cat ... and get it replace.

Just "pump fuel" into it maybe 2-3 times THERE YOU GO ! :)

Im serious about this. lol ASK ME HOW I KNOW ! :lol:

I did it today, and not smoke at ALL !! Something I did wrong?

did you put it in the gas tank or the nipples?

Its EXTREMELY easy to kill your cat ... and get it replace.

Just "pump fuel" into it maybe 2-3 times THERE YOU GO ! :)

Im serious about this. lol ASK ME HOW I KNOW ! :lol:

:uhh: :uhh:

I'm intrigued.. about to start running MMs AP maps which I'm sure will kill the CAT alot faster.

lol ... u better make sure u flash it back to stock and run it another 100 miles b4 U hand it in ...

did you put it in the gas tank or the nipples?


Nipples, about 12-15 seconds 2 times for each

Gas Tank ? where did the TSB/DIY mention gas tank ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Its EXTREMELY easy to kill your cat ... and get it replace.

Just "pump fuel" into it maybe 2-3 times THERE YOU GO ! :)

Im serious about this. lol ASK ME HOW I KNOW ! :lol:

How do you know?

Hey nice ride alzOrz

This spring I think I will use BG's 44k engine de carbonizer, like I use everyday on my customer's cars

The way I will do on a warmed up engine it is to add 44k through both ports with the engine running!! When the engine boggs down after half a can is added my assistant will be told to shut off the engine. I will then add oil (5w-20) even though 44k has it's own lubricant, about 2 oz per port. I'l let it soak for a half hour then drive the shit out of it. Then repeat.

As far as a converter is concerned, all carbon cleaners sold on the market are safe, including seafoaf. Just read the label. I plan on doing away with mine once it out of winter hibernation

What about using this stuff further upstream in the intake to try to clean the ssv and the other intake valves (as well as decarbon the engine?) Good idea, bad idea or pointless?
Does the zoom stuff come out as a mist or just as a stream?

I cleaned my throttle body with maf sensor cleaner. I cant see any cleaning that would be done in the manifold being useful since its just air at that point. and all the magic happens in the housings. As far as I know we don't have intake valves I could be wrong.

Well, there are valves in the lower intake manifold, but I wouldn't use the zoom cleaner up there.

The zoom cleaner comes out more as a stream (if you're using the hose that comes with it)

My SSV was all gummed up from getting 10 quarts of oil into my intake :eyetwitch

I used Seafoam "deep Creep" to clean the upper intake and throttle body and electrical contact cleaner to clean the MAF

Worked pretty well for me, along with a local rx8clubber who knew what they were doing...

interesting I didn't know about the valves... I'm gonna have a look see at my ssv I've been having a tad bit of rough idle that's not making me happy. maybe that's the culprit?

i got this done at my dealer for around $130 total. they told me it will only take 30min and they drove my car out the dealer and test drive it. are they suppose to do this?

i got this done at my dealer for around $130 total. they told me it will only take 30min and they drove my car out the dealer and test drive it. are they suppose to do this?

No

Cuz they suppose to make the engine hot first, put the stuff in, let it sit inside for at least an hour. then burn it off.

i'm putting on a midpipe Monday jackson.. before I do the install though i'm going to run the zoom zoom cleaner through again and let it settle while I install.. then I'm going to see if I *finally* get some smoke which will prove my theory that my CAT has been screwed since forever..

finally, the mystery will be solved!

you can buy this cleaner on ebay. I got it for 16$ shipped. Just to let everyone known :)

seller name: kattfood
Looks good for me

No

Cuz they suppose to make the engine hot first, put the stuff in, let it sit inside for at least an hour. then burn it off.


As in burn off. do they drive it out? Egh :[ i guess ill just buy a bottle and do it properly :banghead:

no... click on page one of this thread and follow each step to its entirety...

^ I concur. The procedure is described in detail in this very thread. They service guys should be doing whatever is listed there as the procedure.

^ I concur. The procedure is described in detail in this very thread. They service guys should be doing whatever is listed there as the procedure.

So i basically got screwed over :[ when they start my car, i saw no smoke at all. what the hell is going on?

Were you watching them do the whole thing? Its supposed to sit inside the engine for like an hour before starting it. Then, they start it and see smoke.

I never saw smoke on the two times I did it. That was with my CAT on though.. which I believe was clogged. I will run the cleaner through again on Sunday.. this time I have a midpipe on.

Were you watching them do the whole thing? Its supposed to sit inside the engine for like an hour before starting it. Then, they start it and see smoke.

yeah i was watching them outside, i was sitting their eating chips. and 20mins later i see a guy haul ass in my car, getting on the expressway and waste my gas :banghead: when they drove out their was no smoke. and i didn't see any smoke in the air either :[ my car has 12K miles. yeah more like sitting in my engine for 30mins

I would print out the TSB and show it to the dealer and tell them to do it right this time.

I would print out the TSB and show it to the dealer and tell them to do it right this time.

I would, but i kinda don't want to be a dick about it.

So i have no choice, but to do it my self :squint:

I guess that's one way of looking at it..

they also screwed you out of $130... that would piss me off..

I guess that's one way of looking at it..

they also screwed you out of $130... that would piss me off..

True. egh ill just let it be. and do it on my own for now on. and they told me spark plugs would cost me over $500 not even including labor just shoot me seriously.

Holy dog manure... please post that stealership in the worst ever thread.. the plugs shouldn't cost you more than $125 shipped and the install is easy as baking a pie.. if someone at a dealership wanted to charge me that for plugs I would literally say "awesome does your wife come with that $500, or is that in the labor?" and walk away.

Holy dog manure... please post that stealership in the worst ever thread.. the plugs shouldn't cost you more than $125 shipped and the install is easy as baking a pie.. if someone at a dealership wanted to charge me that for plugs I would literally say "awesome does your wife come with that $500, or is that in the labor?" and walk away.

Lol well im in luck cause i know this guy who works with Rotary engines and some other cars. he does porting to swaps and turbo installs. hes the only rotary wiz up till san antonio from McAllen. His work is awesome, one of his customers has a Rx7 FC pushing more then 500hp.... I asked him how much is for spark plugs and installation? he told me between 125-200 so i think thats not bad. ill tell him to do the Zoom power engine cleaner and spark plugs.

How long do spark plugs last?

Lol well im in luck cause i know this guy who works with Rotary engines and some other cars. he does porting to swaps and turbo installs. hes the only rotary wiz up till san antonio from McAllen. His work is awesome, one of his customers has a Rx7 FC pushing more then 500hp.... I asked him how much is for spark plugs and installation? he told me between 125-200 so i think thats not bad. ill tell him to do the Zoom power engine cleaner and spark plugs.

How long do spark plugs last?

every 30k I believe. that guy sounds like the winner.

every 30k I believe. that guy sounds like the winner.

if you get 20k miles out of the plugs you are doing well. 25k is about as far as they should go..

beers :beer:

Sweet! i have around 12K and the car idles pretty bad. Only once the car turned off on me :[ ill just get them replaced soon.

check your coils that's most likely the culprit

check your coils that's most likely the culprit

ok ill check it when the sun is up. but as this mileage?

OK.

I work @ a Service Department. This 'Combustion chamber cleaner' can be installed in many ways. the best, most effective way of using it, is to inject the chemical into a hot engine as states in the first post, then let it sit for an hour or so....however, after starting up vehicle (assembled) take it for a blast at high rpms. with an increased engine load, carbon deposits are cleaned off further and the process is more effective. Ive done this service many times and that is by far the best. If your dealer drove the vehicle after the process, you should really thank him instead of not knowing whats going on and criticizing. Its the ones that dont drive it after service are the ones you SHOULD look out for. With no engine load, your not using the chemical to its full potential. Most of the time, dealers will spray it and pull it right out (time is money and a tech will not babysit) unless they set it aside for later (unlikely).
Oh, and you will see a LOT of smoke.. its fascinating IMO.

OK.

I work @ a Service Department. This 'Combustion chamber cleaner' can be installed in many ways. the best, most effective way of using it, is to inject the chemical into a hot engine as states in the first post, then let it sit for an hour or so....however, after starting up vehicle (assembled) take it for a blast at high rpms. with an increased engine load, carbon deposits are cleaned off further and the process is more effective. Ive done this service many times and that is by far the best. If your dealer drove the vehicle after the process, you should really thank him instead of not knowing whats going on and criticizing. Its the ones that dont drive it after service are the ones you SHOULD look out for. With no engine load, your not using the chemical to its full potential. Most of the time, dealers will spray it and pull it right out (time is money and a tech will not babysit) unless they set it aside for later (unlikely).
Oh, and you will see a LOT of smoke.. its fascinating IMO.

Thanks for your thoughts... No offense but you just said the most effective way to do the clean is to let it sit for an hour.. then you say most the dealers spray and drive... hrmmmm.

yeah i was watching them outside, i was sitting their eating chips. and 20mins later i see a guy haul ass in my car, getting on the expressway and waste my gas :banghead: when they drove out their was no smoke. and i didn't see any smoke in the air either :[ my car has 12K miles. yeah more like sitting in my engine for 30mins

dude, its not being a dick. They love to cheat people out of money when they don't know any better. I'd definitely print out the TSB and try to respectfully ask about it and try to get them to take care of you. What are they going to do, plant a bomb in your car?

I hate hearing stories like this cuz my service guys are like the nicest people ever.

But even though they are nice, I still do as much as I can myself. Don't be scared to start learning your share and take care of some of the stuff yourself. Chances are, even if you don't know what the hell you are doing, you will be paying so much attention and quadruple checking everything you do, that you are probably likely to do a better job than a service guy who is backed up with god knows how many cars and getting them done as fast as he can.

Just grab a ~90pc mechanic tool set and a pdf copy of the RX8 shop manual, and learn your way. :)

Thanks for your thoughts... No offense but you just said the most effective way to do the clean is to let it sit for an hour.. then you say most the dealers spray and drive... hrmmmm.

read the end of the post. about the time is money part.
and unfortunately yes, there are dealers that do that. your car doesn't get the max potential from the service. The car technically should get a quick roadtest after every major service regardless, but seeing both worlds,,it is obvious there are techs who will not - you generally DID get a service, the tech made his labor time, and you may never know the difference. SOme vehicles you feel a difference; means your car was loaded with carbon and you should be pushing your 8 a bit harder and performeing a tune-up more often, maybe switching to a better fuel. the ones the dont feel much of a difference are the people who generally keep the car up to date with services and engine wasn't really carbon'd up to begin with. It is a good thing tp have done, i recommend doing it yourself or get a friend. you dont have to disconnect many items. you can dump it right into the (warm) throttle body @ idle until the can runs out, then shut it off and reassemble, take for a blast. car will feel like its misfire, but hold the pedal down and let it burn. works.

dude, its not being a dick. They love to cheat people out of money when they don't know any better. I'd definitely print out the TSB and try to respectfully ask about it and try to get them to take care of you. What are they going to do, plant a bomb in your car?

I hate hearing stories like this cuz my service guys are like the nicest people ever.

But even though they are nice, I still do as much as I can myself. Don't be scared to start learning your share and take care of some of the stuff yourself. Chances are, even if you don't know what the hell you are doing, you will be paying so much attention and quadruple checking everything you do, that you are probably likely to do a better job than a service guy who is backed up with god knows how many cars and getting them done as fast as he can.

Just grab a ~90pc mechanic tool set and a pdf copy of the RX8 shop manual, and learn your way. :)


that's the win!

dude, its not being a dick. They love to cheat people out of money when they don't know any better. I'd definitely print out the TSB and try to respectfully ask about it and try to get them to take care of you. What are they going to do, plant a bomb in your car?

I hate hearing stories like this cuz my service guys are like the nicest people ever.

But even though they are nice, I still do as much as I can myself. Don't be scared to start learning your share and take care of some of the stuff yourself. Chances are, even if you don't know what the hell you are doing, you will be paying so much attention and quadruple checking everything you do, that you are probably likely to do a better job than a service guy who is backed up with god knows how many cars and getting them done as fast as he can.

Just grab a ~90pc mechanic tool set and a pdf copy of the RX8 shop manual, and learn your way. :)

that's the win!




Sounds good. but won't they void my warrenty, if their not doing the job? and me doing it?

No. For example. You could get your oil changed at a jiffy lube place. That's not official mazda service, but you could still get it done, and you would be meeting the scheduled maintenance needs. Take it one step further, and now you do your own oil changes. They could void warantee if you didnt use the appropriate oil, but even in that case, if you've driven the car a reasonable amount, no one can tell what oil you put in.

Case in point: I use Royal Purple 10w-40. That is a fully synthetic oil, of non-oem weight. But there is no way for them to know that.

that's the win!

Yeah man. I didn't know a single thing about anything. Yet, I grabbed the ole tool kit and my laptop with pdf manual, and installed a turbo kit in my car. Saves money if you do regular maintenance yourself, as well as know when you are getting bullshitted by dealers. Win Win situation.

this weekend for sure - i will settle this thing that has been bothering forever.

Yeah man. I didn't know a single thing about anything. Yet, I grabbed the ole tool kit and my laptop with pdf manual, and installed a turbo kit in my car. Saves money if you do regular maintenance yourself, as well as know when you are getting bullshitted by dealers. Win Win situation.

Oh I've been working on cars since I was 9 or 10.. after owning the Z I learned allot.
Thats why I made a thread a while ago about the 8 being the easiest car to work on.. anyone can do it there no need to pay overpriced stealerships.

I'm in the same boat. When I did the cleaner I had zero smoke. Not even a white puff.

I'm actually thinking that perhaps the Mazda zoom zoom cleaner quickened the catalytic converters death.

My exhaust note changed lately(raspy) and the Mazda zoom zoom cleaner never went away. Everytime I run my car I smell it.

I'll check my cat maybe this weekend. I have a jack and jackstands.

It happen to me first time because don't wait the 1 hour before start the engine. I did last week with seafoam not deep creep just liquid seafoam in my booster brake vacuum hose having a partner rev the rx8 in 2k just use 1/3 bottle of seafoam and another 1/3 to the gas tank. Wait like 30 min but wait the hour like mazda :squint:said start the engine you would see the blue smoke with nice smell of plastic burn. It work for me I just get rid off the P2070 code the haunt me for 5 month:).

Fix the P2070 code have 2 way :

MAZDA DEALER
MAZDA DEALER+WAITING LIKE 3 HOUR+MAZDA ZOOM CLEANER=$130.00

DO IT YOURSELF
HAVING FRIEND+BEER+WAITING 1H 5min+Bottle SEAFOAM=$9.99

here the video of making the same procedure look the result of the smoke of my friend Rx8 Shinka Limited edition. Warning Puerto Rico spanish version
http://rapidshare.com/files/192518713/MOV0012A.avi.html

funny story my war of getting rid of the code p2070 is far from over. Yesterday after almost 2 week of not having the cel on. Turn on the cel after the car was like 27mph and 3k rpm. Now gave me P0171[pending,current,history]system to lean and P2070[history,Current]SSV Stuck open. Can someone help this poor man just love his lemon car.

I will be doing mine again right before I do a tune up. I will video tape it again only with a charged battery this time.

funny story my war of getting rid of the code p2070 is far from over. Yesterday after almost 2 week of not having the cel on. Turn on the cel after the car was like 27mph and 3k rpm. Now gave me P0171[pending,current,history]system to lean and P2070[history,Current]SSV Stuck open. Can someone help this poor man just love his lemon car.

Check the SSV. or the engine harness might have a problem(like mine)

funny story my war of getting rid of the code p2070 is far from over. Yesterday after almost 2 week of not having the cel on. Turn on the cel after the car was like 27mph and 3k rpm. Now gave me P0171[pending,current,history]system to lean and P2070[history,Current]SSV Stuck open. Can someone help this poor man just love his lemon car.


p2070 tsb does reccommend using the engine zoom cleaner to properly clean out the manifold but there's also an updated ssv part.

Before this tsb came out realistically the only way to fix p2070 was to replace the lower manifold. the manifold itself is relatively expensive and the labor time is equivalent of pulling the motor out of the car.

if you manage to catch the p2070 in time you might get lucky and be able to get everything super clean and operable but at the least you're going to need a new ssv assembly, if you want i can copy the part numbers from the tsb for you.

kevin.

ok my SSV isn't stuck. Why I tell you why

1] I can move the SSV with my hand and with a vacuum pump
2]I check the ssv switch terminal A & B continuity when the rod above and no continuity with pushing the rod.

So that make my think is the solenoid stuck or malfunction or the PCM

Today take out the UIM and clean it but it was clean after all. Clean the throttle it was a little dirt of carbon and the ssv solenoid gave it like 4 spray of seafoam deep creep. Let see what happen my hope are not too high

But at least the code P0171 is fix it ,how? friday night clean the MAF Sensor and yesterday scan the car and the P0171 disappear well I hope so. here is my freeze frame

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/676/rx8800x600cw3.png
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2275/rx82800x600fe0.png


Kevin is this the SSV part #N3H5-20-160F tsb service bulletin 01-019-1929s

Worked great. Used Seafoam and sucked it through temporary hoses on each nipple. Found it hard to get more than one ounce of oil through each hose when putting the recommended little bit of extra oil in before starting. Other than that, no problems. Lots of smoke and an engine that feels new again. Great procedure, easy to do in combo with oil, filter and air filter change.

Will do again in about 3 oil changes.

Thanks for the tips and comments. Helped me a bunch.

hey kevin - what would your opinion be if I never got smoke when I ran the zoom zoom cleaner through? tried it two times on two different days...

ok my SSV isn't stuck. Why I tell you why

1] I can move the SSV with my hand and with a vacuum pump
2]I check the ssv switch terminal A & B continuity when the rod above and no continuity with pushing the rod.

So that make my think is the solenoid stuck or malfunction or the PCM

Today take out the UIM and clean it but it was clean after all. Clean the throttle it was a little dirt of carbon and the ssv solenoid gave it like 4 spray of seafoam deep creep. Let see what happen my hope are not too high

But at least the code P0171 is fix it ,how? friday night clean the MAF Sensor and yesterday scan the car and the P0171 disappear well I hope so. here is my freeze frame

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/676/rx8800x600cw3.png
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2275/rx82800x600fe0.png


Kevin is this the SSV part #N3H5-20-160F tsb service bulletin 01-019-1929s

Just cause you can move the actuator doesnt mean it isnt sticking. When i get home from work I'll post you up some teardown pics of a bad SSV and double check the P/N for the new one. The new one has a redesigned end bushing to prevent carbon from causing it to bind.

I've also seen the wires going to the solenoids just break off at the connectors at the back of the manifold but that'll normally set a "circuit high" code, normally when you get a "stuck open" code something was/is stuck.

I actually just did one of these a few days ago so the pics are still on my cam. The car had, IIRC, 38k on it and the carbon/gunk buildup was really severe. The problem with the normal zoom engine cleaning is the ports that you spray it into DONT reach the SSV, to clean the ssv port you have to remove it and clean it manually with the zoom cleaner. not too bad of a job though, gotta yank the ACV and thermostat housing then its relatively easy.

hey kevin - what would your opinion be if I never got smoke when I ran the zoom zoom cleaner through? tried it two times on two different days...

Don't worry if it doesnt smoke, the cleaner itself doesnt smoke, only the carbon and gunk does. no smoke = no gunk. We see it a lot on lower mileage cars. I've had no smoke come out of a car with 80k on it as well. The cleaner will do it's job so dont sweat the small stuff.

kevin.

Don't worry if it doesnt smoke, the cleaner itself doesnt smoke, only the carbon and gunk does. no smoke = no gunk. We see it a lot on lower mileage cars. I've had no smoke come out of a car with 80k on it as well. The cleaner will do it's job so dont sweat the small stuff.

kevin.

ohh sweet!

Kevin,

nothing related to this zoomzoom cleaner thing.

motor still stall at stop light. not as bad as summer, it happened couple of times thru out the whole winter. hmm. Sometimes it takes at least 5 seconds to do a "hot start". hmm. what else hmm ...

got some "crazy" misfires once, light was blinking for more than a minute, it happened couple hundred miles ago, but I think it was just bad gas. it never came back.

Parking lever broke (again), tail light water ... hmm.

Oh yes Do I get more "special" treatments if I get a car from u guys? cuz I think it will happen soon lol :)

Kevin,

nothing related to this zoomzoom cleaner thing.

motor still stall at stop light. not as bad as summer, it happened couple of times thru out the whole winter. hmm. Sometimes it takes at least 5 seconds to do a "hot start". hmm. what else hmm ...

got some "crazy" misfires once, light was blinking for more than a minute, it happened couple hundred miles ago, but I think it was just bad gas. it never came back.

Parking lever broke (again), tail light water ... hmm.

Oh yes Do I get more "special" treatments if I get a car from u guys? cuz I think it will happen soon lol :)

If you're trading in your RX I want your wheels. ;)

I aint trading my 8 in ... unless they have some crazy deals like 0% apr plus 4K customer cash plus no payment for 90 days :)

I probably gonna trade my other car in, o u know which one :)

I aint trading my 8 in ... unless they have some crazy deals like 0% apr plus 4K customer cash plus no payment for 90 days :)

I probably gonna trade my other car in, o u know which one :)

I still want your wheels.

Kevin,

nothing related to this zoomzoom cleaner thing.

motor still stall at stop light. not as bad as summer, it happened couple of times thru out the whole winter. hmm. Sometimes it takes at least 5 seconds to do a "hot start". hmm. what else hmm ...

got some "crazy" misfires once, light was blinking for more than a minute, it happened couple hundred miles ago, but I think it was just bad gas. it never came back.

Parking lever broke (again), tail light water ... hmm.

Oh yes Do I get more "special" treatments if I get a car from u guys? cuz I think it will happen soon lol :)

when you get a "misfire capable of damaging catalyst" the light will blink, generally a specific amount of time, the blink starts when the misfire is detected but doesnt have to still be occurring for the light to blink, possibly a piece of carbon flaked off and got spat out.

as for the stalling i'm still left wondering, everything checked IIRC and with the cleaner going thru clean i'm figuring your engine doesnt have anything stuck inside. wish it would store some useful code.

kevin.

Carbon Attacks SSV - 38k on motor - Pics (http://gallery.me.com/teknics#100043&view=grid&sel=0)
Here's a rundown:
IMG_0451 - This pic was taken with the camera upside down, this is the SSV port in your lower manifold, you can see the capped off nipples in this pic so (once you flip the pic in your head) you can understand why the typical zoom engine cleaning doesn't touch the SSV port.
Just for a good reference that WHOLE interior surface, when new, is super shiny almost mirror finished metal, thats because the clearances are so tight for the ports to be successfully closed off completely when needed.

IMG_0452 & 0453 - Here's a closeup of the SSV port pre-cleaning. If you look all the way to the rear you'll see what is really the most damaging carbon. That recessed hole in the rear is where the SSV end bushing sits and moves, notice how the thickest carbon is built up there? That's what seizes/sticks up the SSV. As is the nature of carbon/gunk the part wont ALWAYS stick but with the right conditions it will, remember that ssv is being moved with simply a vac line and the actuator. Now even though the walls of the cylinder simply look dirty the clearances between the SSV and the walls of the manifold are practically nothing so every thousandth of an inch of carbon is bad.

IMG_0454 - Here we see the actual SSV. The top small part is the "bushing. This part has been redesigned specifically to try to prevent sticking, it is no longer solid it has either 1 or 2 lines cut into it and IIRC the material has also been changed. Now this SSV when new is ALSO shiny anything other then a silver shiny metal has been added on while inside the motor. The buildup on there is sticky to the touch and to get off you need to soak in zoom cleaner for 20 minutes and then scrub hard, which is why it used to be better to replace the whole manifold, but now the updated SSV is supposively better, so we'll see.

IMG_0455 & 0456 - Just additional pics of the old SSV to show how nasty the buildup is. Again the key thing to remember is all of the clearances are SUPER tight all these built up spots are whats stopping it from moving smoothly when needed. Specifically in 0456 you can see a blurry closeup of the bushing, what you should try to notice here is where the bushing meets the SSV where it meets is a dead 90 degree angle, so you can notice that the carbon has begun creeping up the bushing normally once its at that point it'll throw the code no matter how many times you clear it because the bushing will no longer move freely, ever.

Now of course me being me I forgot to take pics of the new part and the "after cleaning"

As for parts numbers, realistically all you REALLY need is the SSV, SSV gasket, and the new longer SSV bolt (you reuse one, the other one is too short and gets replaced.

SSV: N3H5-20-160F
SSV Gasket: N3H4-20-155A
SSV Bolt: 9979-60-640
Zoom Cleaner: 0000-77-A86

Specific improvements of the new SSV: Improved, Larger Vac Actuator also mounted more securely to SSV (to help make sure nothing sticks if it does get gummy again), SSV Bushing is redesigned, nothing else noticeable.

You WILL need that new bolt, new SSV mounts the actuator differently requiring a bolt about 10-15mm longer then the one that comes out.

To do this job all you really need to do is unbolt and remove ACV, remove water pump pulley, alternator bracket, thermostat (secure to front of vehicle, no need to remove hoses), unbolt thermostat housing and secure to passenger side (again no reason to remove hoses), unbolt SSV. Sliding out the old SSV will be difficult if you have a P2070 code but just keep wiggling and it will slide out.

Also if you go to a dealer and you're out of warranty they'll most likely try to sell you a manifold because the tech will be able to charge double-digit hours and the manifold isnt cheap. Show them this tsb and say youd prefer this service performed. Most likely you're looking at 3-4 hours labor and whatever the parts cost (i dont remember that stuff).

Hope this helps out, and remember, just cause you can go in and move the SSV with a vac pump or your hand doesnt mean it isnt sticking, it just isnt sticking at that time. But if you'd like to test the solenoids and stuff it's really simple, solenoid is an on/off switch with 12v and ground, not that complicated. But the plugs (black, white and blue) on the solenoids have a tendency of snapping their wires right at the connector or building up resistance right at the connector.

thats it for today.

kevin.

thanks for the writeup kevin

thanks for the writeup keven


n/p just trying to clarify the code and the reason, hope it helps someone/anyone.

kevin.

great to have you back, Kevin, we missed you for a while

I still want your wheels.

LoL !

Hmm, Japanparts.com can help ya out lol :P

when you get a "misfire capable of damaging catalyst" the light will blink, generally a specific amount of time, the blink starts when the misfire is detected but doesnt have to still be occurring for the light to blink, possibly a piece of carbon flaked off and got spat out.

as for the stalling i'm still left wondering, everything checked IIRC and with the cleaner going thru clean i'm figuring your engine doesnt have anything stuck inside. wish it would store some useful code.

kevin.

Thx for the reply Kevin,

Im wondering what is going on too. Compression numbers were a bit low(7.0 @ 288 rpm I think?) but it shouldn't stall at least. I "zoom zoom clean" it myself and it came out clean. the stalling issue can happen anytime, its soooo random, just like the other time my car gotta tow back to your dealership cuz I can't start it at the Mobil gas station down the block ... but "magically worked" when its back to your place. grrr ...

*shurgs* ...

I know it has 100 K warranty, but this thing is pissing me off :(

robrecht: thx for the welcome back, been working on lots of 8's lately so figured id come see if any knowledge i have to offer is useful. that and ive been driving/working on my FD so rotors were on the mind :) .

kevin.

I know it has 100 K warranty, but this thing is pissing me off :(

imagine how the people who have to figure it out feel, unfortunately we're limited in what we're fully allowed to do.

In all honesty i'd probably teardown your motor to just check the seals and springs on the rotors (if it was like an FD or FC, where that kinda stuff is common lol), but in mazda land thats a no-no. I still think it might be an intake problem tho somewhere in the manifold, but without codes thats like throwing darts at the board.

kevin.

robrecht: thx for the welcome back, been working on lots of 8's lately so figured id come see if any knowledge i have to offer is useful. that and ive been driving/working on my FD so rotors were on the mind :) .

kevin.



imagine how the people who have to figure it out feel, unfortunately we're limited in what we're fully allowed to do.

In all honesty i'd probably teardown your motor to just check the seals and springs on the rotors (if it was like an FD or FC, where that kinda stuff is common lol), but in mazda land thats a no-no. I still think it might be an intake problem tho somewhere in the manifold, but without codes thats like throwing darts at the board.

kevin.


maybe I should start driving like a 80 yr old granny, 10mph on local roads and 40 on highways and buy the crappiest Costco or Power UP Gas(thats the name of the station, lol). Build that carbon up every freakin' where and hope that it finally can stuck some seal springs or what-the-heck-ever until it blows up I dont care. grrrrr :(


B - 2 - b Warranty will run out soon :(. I will come again before it runs out ... its nice to have free plugs and coils ----------------- but, hmm, so far I think I got 2 sets of coils and plugs from you Kevin, and maybe another 2 sets each from Great Neck Mazda I think. That's like couple hundred bux of parts and couple hundred bux of labor cost already. Why can't Mazda just replace the freaking motor and be done with it. grrr :( I didn't do anything special to damage the motor, I change oil even more than I should (every 1.5-2.5K!) and I got this "unpredictable stallin' motor" ... :( too much clearance on the side seals maybe ? grr ....

Makes me wanna go use my Geico's Mechanical breakdown policy. Damn Mazda.

Anyway, Thanks Kevin :)

maybe I should start driving like a 80 yr old granny, 10mph on local roads and 40 on highways and buy the crappiest Costco or Power UP Gas(thats the name of the station, lol). Build that carbon up every freakin' where and hope that it finally can stuck some seal springs or what-the-heck-ever until it blows up I dont care. grrrrr :(


B - 2 - b Warranty will run out soon :(. I will come again before it runs out ... its nice to have free plugs and coils ----------------- but, hmm, so far I think I got 2 sets of coils and plugs from you Kevin, and maybe another 2 sets each from Great Neck Mazda I think. That's like couple hundred bux of parts and couple hundred bux of labor cost already. Why can't Mazda just replace the freaking motor and be done with it. grrr :( I didn't do anything special to damage the motor, I change oil even more than I should (every 1.5-2.5K!) and I got this "unpredictable stallin' motor" ... :( too much clearance on the side seals maybe ? grr ....

Makes me wanna go use my Geico's Mechanical breakdown policy. Damn Mazda.

Anyway, Thanks Kevin :)

lol, i know how frustrating it can be, mazda has loosened the reins on rotary motors since opening the shop in virginia lots of red tape went away. the hard part is actually narrowing down and diag a very intermittent problem which can occur in any conditions, ya know? Plus i'm still not pegging the motor directly i've seen weirder things happen, daily.

kevin.

lol, i know how frustrating it can be, mazda has loosened the reins on rotary motors since opening the shop in virginia lots of red tape went away. the hard part is actually narrowing down and diag a very intermittent problem which can occur in any conditions, ya know? Plus i'm still not pegging the motor directly i've seen weirder things happen, daily.

kevin.

yea ... the virginia plant ... someone who works @ the plant is one of the members here too :)

*Shurgs* weather is getting better probably gonna stop by next or next next week. :)

Im fairly sure you guys take Geico's insurance ... hohohoho.

Thx again man :)

Carbon Attacks SSV - 38k on motor - Pics (http://gallery.me.com/teknics#100043&view=grid&sel=0)
Here's a rundown:
IMG_0451 - This pic was taken with the camera upside down, this is the SSV port in your lower manifold, you can see the capped off nipples in this pic so (once you flip the pic in your head) you can understand why the typical zoom engine cleaning doesn't touch the SSV port.
Just for a good reference that WHOLE interior surface, when new, is super shiny almost mirror finished metal, thats because the clearances are so tight for the ports to be successfully closed off completely when needed.

IMG_0452 & 0453 - Here's a closeup of the SSV port pre-cleaning. If you look all the way to the rear you'll see what is really the most damaging carbon. That recessed hole in the rear is where the SSV end bushing sits and moves, notice how the thickest carbon is built up there? That's what seizes/sticks up the SSV. As is the nature of carbon/gunk the part wont ALWAYS stick but with the right conditions it will, remember that ssv is being moved with simply a vac line and the actuator. Now even though the walls of the cylinder simply look dirty the clearances between the SSV and the walls of the manifold are practically nothing so every thousandth of an inch of carbon is bad.

IMG_0454 - Here we see the actual SSV. The top small part is the "bushing. This part has been redesigned specifically to try to prevent sticking, it is no longer solid it has either 1 or 2 lines cut into it and IIRC the material has also been changed. Now this SSV when new is ALSO shiny anything other then a silver shiny metal has been added on while inside the motor. The buildup on there is sticky to the touch and to get off you need to soak in zoom cleaner for 20 minutes and then scrub hard, which is why it used to be better to replace the whole manifold, but now the updated SSV is supposively better, so we'll see.

IMG_0455 & 0456 - Just additional pics of the old SSV to show how nasty the buildup is. Again the key thing to remember is all of the clearances are SUPER tight all these built up spots are whats stopping it from moving smoothly when needed. Specifically in 0456 you can see a blurry closeup of the bushing, what you should try to notice here is where the bushing meets the SSV where it meets is a dead 90 degree angle, so you can notice that the carbon has begun creeping up the bushing normally once its at that point it'll throw the code no matter how many times you clear it because the bushing will no longer move freely, ever.

Now of course me being me I forgot to take pics of the new part and the "after cleaning"

As for parts numbers, realistically all you REALLY need is the SSV, SSV gasket, and the new longer SSV bolt (you reuse one, the other one is too short and gets replaced.

SSV: N3H5-20-160F
SSV Gasket: N3H4-20-155A
SSV Bolt: 9979-60-640
Zoom Cleaner: 0000-77-A86

Specific improvements of the new SSV: Improved, Larger Vac Actuator also mounted more securely to SSV (to help make sure nothing sticks if it does get gummy again), SSV Bushing is redesigned, nothing else noticeable.

You WILL need that new bolt, new SSV mounts the actuator differently requiring a bolt about 10-15mm longer then the one that comes out.

To do this job all you really need to do is unbolt and remove ACV, remove water pump pulley, alternator bracket, thermostat (secure to front of vehicle, no need to remove hoses), unbolt thermostat housing and secure to passenger side (again no reason to remove hoses), unbolt SSV. Sliding out the old SSV will be difficult if you have a P2070 code but just keep wiggling and it will slide out.

Also if you go to a dealer and you're out of warranty they'll most likely try to sell you a manifold because the tech will be able to charge double-digit hours and the manifold isnt cheap. Show them this tsb and say youd prefer this service performed. Most likely you're looking at 3-4 hours labor and whatever the parts cost (i dont remember that stuff).

Hope this helps out, and remember, just cause you can go in and move the SSV with a vac pump or your hand doesnt mean it isnt sticking, it just isnt sticking at that time. But if you'd like to test the solenoids and stuff it's really simple, solenoid is an on/off switch with 12v and ground, not that complicated. But the plugs (black, white and blue) on the solenoids have a tendency of snapping their wires right at the connector or building up resistance right at the connector.

thats it for today.

kevin.

I am a Toyota Tech who love rotary engine so that is another world but technician to technician :bowdown: :bowdown: thank you so that you not only explain but take photos. thanks again. I am going to do this work soon after changing rear suspension strut $150.00 each:icon_no2:

I am a Toyota Tech who love rotary engine so that is another world but technician to technician :bowdown: :bowdown: thank you so that you not only explain but take photos. thanks again. I am going to do this work soon after changing rear suspension strut $150.00 each:icon_no2:

n/p i basically work on just 8's all day every day unless there are none sitting around, plus im a rotorhead, and i know how much pictures help in connecting the dots :)

those rear struts can be a bitch to get out, tkae your time doing them, sure there's a writeup around here somewhere.

kevin.

Nice write-up teknics!
I agree that just because you can move the valve by hand or with a vacuum pump, doesn't mean it isn't sticking.
I saw the same thing while cleaning the build-up on another RX8.
But with a vacuum pump I could tell it was sticking because the valve was slow to open/close.
It wasn't a nice and smooth travel.
Anyway.... thanks for posting your experience!

Just like to point out that 09 Series II RX-8 Do Not have the TWO (One Per Rotor) Intake Vacuum Nipples, they have been blanked off! WHY?

Just like to point out that 09 Series II RX-8 Do Not have the TWO (One Per Rotor) Intake Vacuum Nipples, they have been blanked off! WHY?

Really? That's wierd. How do they do engine cleaning then?

Really? That's wierd. How do they do engine cleaning then?

Well, I don't know, I will let you know if a few years!:lol:

One would think there is a way of opening/bypassing one or more of the vacuum hoses or directly through the air mixture/intake somehow?

mazda thinks they conquered the carbon problem, which they haven't. but dont worry they're all very resourceful. im sure they pre-planned a cleaning method since they were developing the changes to the 09 rx8 at the same time they developed this cleaning method.

weird side note anyone ever use the mazda brand carb cleaner, it is supposively fairly similar to the zoom engine cleaner. im guessing the engine cleaner is their carb cleaner in concentrated form. their carb cleaner foams up normally and all.

kevin.

im going to try that mazda cleaner this spring thanks for this thread!

Did this yesterday, no problem getting to anything, and damn so much smoke, gonna do it again today just for shits to see if i get any more out. and throttle response is a little faster and idle is smoother. overall great product. Zoom power cleaner

I'll be doing it for first time come spring time.

Hey guys why do some people put Seafoam through the brake booster line?

Sweet! what like should we use?

My bad I meant what line
Thanks!

lol I know man I'm all messed up today. I think its the top line right?

Just cleaned it with Zoom power cleaner again got a little smoke out again, just did it to see if i missed anything :) its way to easy to grab all of the wires if you are tall and i do have 4 cans of it lol. so yeah i'd suggest cleaning it and then 2 days later do it again. probably pretty clean :)

So whats all that smoke I see on youtube? is that from the seaform? or carb build up?

So whats all that smoke I see on youtube? is that from the seaform? or carb build up?


Both. The red 8 on youtube is mine.

Here is the video of the cleaning i did on 2/25.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CB_-BQKB08

Ever since then though my car starts as if i just put the cleaner in it when it is cold. It runs much better and idles smoother but starts as if I just did the cleaning process and am starting it for the first time after. Any ideas?

I installed my BHR ignition while the cleaner sat in the car, I changed the spark plugs a few days later.