As if you can't tell by the title, I sometimes get a little annoyed with people who treat what Jeremy Clarkson says as gold. The truth is that he's just a dude who has an opinion. Just because he knows a lot about a lot of cars doesn't mean he knows what's going to be good for you. Yet, people seem to stand up and take notice when he says this or that about a car so I figure I will use this fanaticism to perhaps shed some light on a particular car known as the BMW 135i.

If you're like me you're in your mid twenties and think that BMW's are generally for yuppies and people who solely drive status symbols. While they have undoubtedly set the bar for what sports sedans can do, they have always proven to be less than inspiring in just about every way. The exteriors are simple, yet boring. The interiors are well-equipped, but unoriginal. Overall the cars have always been the Honda Civics of the luxury world. Capable, but uninspiring. With the particular exception of the M3, none of them ever seem geared towards people who wanted more sport than luxury.

As such, when I heard about the new 1 series I thought "great, BMW is making a cheaper version of the 3 in an attempt to lower the bar for them to take your money." While some of those motives may have been true, the 1, quite simply, is not a small 3 series. It has a back seat the size of a Mustang, weird shaped side skirts/fenders, and a rear wheel drive setup with no LSD. Yet despite all the unexpected oddities it has been regarded as many as quite an amazing car. It has the same 300 hp 3.0-liter turbocharged inline 6-cylinder engine that the 335i has in a smaller package for less money. And the plot thickens.


So rather than bore you with more of my opinions, I give you the review of who you really care about, JC -- http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article3103294.ece. Again, don't take it as truth, but if it gets you to give it a second look, great.

This isn't an advertisement for BMW and it's not me trying to start an e-argument about whether my take on BMW was right or wrong. Fundamentally a forum is about the exchange of information. I know personally, I had a lot of biases to get over (some right, maybe some wrong) about BMW. I very nearly may have just passed it by without a second thought because of that. So, if you are in the market for a $30-40k coupe (or even hatch) you owe it to yourself to do some real research on this car. It may (or may not) surprise you.

Well, no real strong opinion about what you say, some of it has truth, some of it probably just a bit of opinion. I do see what you're saying, but the way I see it, most reviews are -usually- at least accurate as far as good-bad (it usually will either get a good rating, or bad rating... how good or how bad it is will often be up to taste and such).

I personally believe the best way to go about it is to gather all the different opinions and weigh them to find out if you want to look at the product, then at that point you look and decide for yourself. No matter what the reviews are, when you get in the car and drive it yourself, you'll either like it or not (except for those that are indecisive...).

Good review, I can see what you mean by bmw being a bit simple (maybe even a little bland) with its looks but I honestly don't mind it all too much. I kinda like the fact that you know a BMW when you see one. That being said, I like their 6 series the best, and probably because it has the most unique body styling compared to the rest of their car lineup. The 1 series looks like it could be a lot of fun, but until I get the chance to drive on, I wont be too decided on if it's worth the money or if there is something else for cheaper/similar price range that would be better suited for me.

I want to say in a previous thread I took issue with a lot of what you said about Clarkson and how he reviews cars, but I think that generally you're spot on here. And I think that you're onto something with BMW being the Honda (if not just the Civic) of the Luxury market. It's the benchmark by virtue of gradual refinement over the years, hence being conservative and somewhat boring like a Honda. But in the same vein, it IS rock-solid, albeit uninspired. Coming from a family who owns nothing BUT BMWs, I'm resolved that I'll never own one, more or less for the reasons you've cited. My brother has an '02 M3, and I was actually musing to myself yesterday that I like my car better. Surely his is faster, has sharper steering, better throttle response and in many ways is a better looking car, but there's something to be said for the feel of a car and how a driver interacts with it. BMWs have always seemed to be...slightly detached...in terms of a driving experience? Something. Can't put my finger on it.

In having seen one though, I do agree that the 135i certainly is small, is a bit oddly proportioned and should absolutely have an LSD for the money. But all that aside, I think I would love it; provided I could debadge it. The Tii concept I think is the perfect expression of what the car should be.

I think you are missing something fairly fundamental about Clarkson and the way he reviews cars, and you probably think that the reason I like him is because he is popular and a colorfully obnoxious writer. And I would bet that there's an element of truth to both, but I suppose that is the beauty of opinion?

Cheers, Saturn.

I've always liked BMWs and have been excited about the 135i for some time now. I got to see a 1-series in person the other day, and it looked awful stubby - but then, the black 1-series convertible on the lot looked a lot longer. This really bothered me because it didn't make sense, I've always thought convertibles tended to look shorter.

I'm no fan of the 135i from the get go. It looks hideously ridiculous. However at a recent press launch, I got to sample the 135i with the M3 coupe/cab. I was pleasantly suprised how stout the 135i is. It just felt proper vs. the big M3s. So it is still ugly as an undersized pee-pee, but it's the inside that counts?

Right on about BMW's. Mind you, I have only driven a mid 90's 3 series, so my experience is limited.

I have always wished they build a barebones M3, without all the extra non-essential features that add weight to the car. To make it a true M3, not just an upgraded 3 series with a powerful engine. Maybe keep the current M3 and call it M3L (L is for Luxury) :).

I've always found BMW's to be... just sort of okay. My dad tossed me the keys to an X5 when I was 16 once, and then I was thrilled, but I'm just not into luxury now.

i dunno, guys.
I've been very tempted by the 135i. The interior is a bit bland around the center console area, but other than that the car is a very refined german powerhouse for not too ridiculous of a price (granted, a loaded 135i costs almost as much as a 335i). I started looking at this car before Clarkson reviewed it, but his review is unsurprising. My only complaint about the 135i (or BMW's in general) is the lack of limited slip.
I have yet to see one in person, but I did see a 128 hatch the other day and it looked a lot better than they do in video, but still a bit awkward. I was planning to go test drive one today at lunch but I got sidetracked by this thing called work.
Oh well. maybe i'll leave early.

i think this whole LSD thing is over hyped. the new E9x 3 series handles GREAT. You dont need LSD in 99% of everyday driving anyways. those little cars handle a lot better than a lot of cars with LSD.

I'd never buy a 135i, but that thing is fast in a straight line. I passed on a M3 because I wasn't the least bit impressed, nice engine but thought the RX8 was a much better overall car. Oh well, to each their own. BMW is way better then a Benz or Audi in my opinion.

I think you said it right about a sports sedan.

Get real, drive a sports car!

Jeremy Clarkson hated the Porsche Cayman. I for one thing love the Cayman and so does many other people. Each individual has the right to their own opinion. I for one thing don't take Jeremy's reviews seriously. Top Gear more about entertainment purposes since its funny and everything. Fifth gear is more of a review about cars they go in depth. I for one thing look don't take reviews 100% until i test them out myself. As for the 135i, I think its an awesome car. Its lightweight and the power for it is tremendous. But like I said I id rather go for the Cayman than the 135i. Just personal opinion. it looks better :lol:

Just because he knows a lot about a lot of cars doesn't mean he knows what's going to be good for you.

Since when? He drove a V6 Mustang thinking it was a V8, he has no idea what drivetrain loss is, he thinks AWD cars are slow off the line because they "bog" when he drives them, etc.

He likes cars, yes, but to say he knows a lot about them isn't true at all. There were plenty of times where he looked like an idiot when he was talking about vehicles.

He's a show-host and nothing more, IMO. I'll never take his word for gold.

i just love him, don't care much for the review, he is hilarious XD

i think BMW's are fantastic cars. they definately set the standard in car manufacturing. i'm not being biased because i make a living off of them, but they are engineered quite nicely. although, i would never own one for what they are worth...new that is.

the chris bangle designs are somewhat 'iffy' and takes some time getting used to. i never liked the E60 5 Series, but the M5 looks pretty damn good. the facelifted E65/66 is much better than the earlier ones, and the B7 definately kicks ass. the 135i is a nice little package, you really have to drive one. i can't stand the new E90 M3, but i'm sure i'll get used to it.

It is hard to fault BMW when you look at there competition. I think the Honda analogy is an excellent one. BMW has consistently offered sporty fun to drive cars when others like MB and Audi were poking up and deleting fun from there cars. However i think that BMW has strayed a little in that the buy in price for on is still too high for there entry level car. IMO the 1 series seems a little bit pointless. It has a lot less space then the 3 series but weights about the same? :uhh: I really think they need to offer the 4 door and the 5 door to make the car a little more practical and IMO if i am paying that much for a performance car it needs a LSD. But still i like the car it is just like every other car and has some problems.

I can't get over the porky mask. I like the rear though.
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118167&stc=1&d=1207093406

^ That is the greatest picture I've ever seen on this forum. Haha!

Secretly, though, it makes me want it even more!

It's still not that light (~400lbs more than an RX-8), and it's still a front engined car with a high cg.

The RX-8 is better, it just needs more power.....

who is Jeremy Clarkson?

^ That is the greatest picture I've ever seen on this forum. Haha!

Secretly, though, it makes me want it even more!

Man, it's tough drawing with a mouse! :)

I'm going to play Devils advocate here with Top Gear. Everyone is leaning here towards their opinion is crap on cars, however they did like our 8 when they test drove it. Or at least Hammond did. I dont think its fair just because you disagree with their opinions on the 135 series saying that they don't know much about vehicles, and they are only talk show hosts.

BMW's are usually overall the best cars. They have enough power, good handling, fairly good reliability, free maintenance, etc... Can't beat that. They've always set the standards for sports sedans, especially the 3 series.

They started doing horizontal led tail lights and I bet in couple of years, most manufacturers will start using them as well. :)

Not a big fan of 1 series, it has bugs eyes, but 3 series is drool-worthy.

what about this one:
http://static.kickapps.com/kickapps/images/3898/photos/PHOTO_624380_3898_805381_main.jpg

too bad they're not making it...

or maybe they will!

just released today:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/02/bmw-approves-tii-versions-of-1-and-3-series/

Jezza should read Top Gear's magazine review of it :)

BMW M3 = Ultimate Driving Machine
BMW 135i = Ultimate Marketing Machine

For those considering the 335i/135i duo know this: BMW started WELDING the covers onto their aluminum differentials in mid-2007. They do NOT want LSDs installed. Period.
Boooooo, BMW, booooooooo!

BMW had the perfect chance after they build the Mini, to go back and reinvent the 2002tii for the US market. The climate was ripe for it as retro-look cars were hot (the Mini STILL is) and instead they took a pass. Long before the M3 was even a dream, the 02 put BMW on the map of car makers. The Turbo was nearly as fast, or faster than the 911 of its day, for thousands less.

BMW today is a marketing firm which happens to produce a few solid chassis on which their M-Sport division creates genius. Anyone buying anything other than an M3, M5, or M6, and claiming they've just "bought a sports car" truly doesn't realize, or doesn't care, that they've just been duped.

The 335i is really a great car, but there are issues just like with any car. My friend's 335i coupe is in a shop in LA right now with a clutch failure because BMW refuses to work on it because he's modified some stuff. Nothing he modified caused the clutch master cylinder to go bad and smoke through two clutches, but they don't care about that at all.

The new M3 is the ultimate driving machine? Are you serious?

I like it. It now has more delegates in my voting campaign than the next Rotary or Z. That Tii performance package is Whoa! And you can purchae the parts to up the performance right from the factory thus keeping the warranty in tact.

what about this one:
http://static.kickapps.com/kickapps/images/3898/photos/PHOTO_624380_3898_805381_main.jpg

too bad they're not making it...
The tii concept that was shown awhile back (as pictured above) was a normal 135i with a bunch of parts on it. You can buy all of those parts from BMW.

The tii that they just announced they are making has not been fully designed yet. It remains to be seen what bits they change.

The point is, if you like that car above, buy a 1 series and tack on some of the BMW Performance parts and you're done. You have the exact car pictured above (well, you'll have to ride with illegal clear corners in the US if you want it exact). The paint job is ugly IMO, but the wheels and front, side, and back fender body kit pieces are to die for. I wouldn't drive a 1 without them. Add on a Dinan tune and you've got a sexy shape and 384hp all 100% covered under warranty and free maintenance for 4 years. Not a terrible deal.

BMW M3 = Ultimate Driving Machine
BMW 135i = Ultimate Marketing Machine

For those considering the 335i/135i duo know this: BMW started WELDING the covers onto their aluminum differentials in mid-2007. They do NOT want LSDs installed. Period.
Boooooo, BMW, booooooooo!

BMW had the perfect chance after they build the Mini, to go back and reinvent the 2002tii for the US market. The climate was ripe for it as retro-look cars were hot (the Mini STILL is) and instead they took a pass. Long before the M3 was even a dream, the 02 put BMW on the map of car makers. The Turbo was nearly as fast, or faster than the 911 of its day, for thousands less.

BMW today is a marketing firm which happens to produce a few solid chassis on which their M-Sport division creates genius. Anyone buying anything other than an M3, M5, or M6, and claiming they've just "bought a sports car" truly doesn't realize, or doesn't care, that they've just been duped.

The 335i is really a great car, but there are issues just like with any car. My friend's 335i coupe is in a shop in LA right now with a clutch failure because BMW refuses to work on it because he's modified some stuff. Nothing he modified caused the clutch master cylinder to go bad and smoke through two clutches, but they don't care about that at all.

You haven't driven the 135. Enough said.

I like it. It now has more delegates in my voting campaign than the next Rotary or Z. That Tii performance package is Whoa! And you can purchae the parts to up the performance right from the factory thus keeping the warranty in tact.

Haha, I like how you use a complex primary-style voting system to determine your next car. Just watch out for those pesky superdelegates.

LOL! I will!!!

The tii concept that was shown awhile back (as pictured above) was a normal 135i with a bunch of parts on it. You can buy all of those parts from BMW.

The tii that they just announced they are making has not been fully designed yet. It remains to be seen what bits they change.

The point is, if you like that car above, buy a 1 series and tack on some of the BMW Performance parts and you're done. You have the exact car pictured above (well, you'll have to ride with illegal clear corners in the US if you want it exact). The paint job is ugly IMO, but the wheels and front, side, and back fender body kit pieces are to die for. I wouldn't drive a 1 without them. Add on a Dinan tune and you've got a sexy shape and 384hp all 100% covered under warranty and free maintenance for 4 years. Not a terrible deal.

Not quite true.. The 135 tii above is the first 135i concept. There were 1 or 2 more that followed afterwards that had slightly different setups. The one above is the concept for tokyo.

Here's a couple shots from a later concept:
http://4wheelsblog.com/wp-content/articole/2008/january/leaked/bmw/tii/1.jpg
http://4wheelsblog.com/wp-content/articole/2008/january/leaked/bmw/tii/2.jpg
http://4wheelsblog.com/wp-content/articole/2008/january/leaked/bmw/tii/3.jpg
http://4wheelsblog.com/wp-content/articole/2008/january/leaked/bmw/tii/4.jpg
http://4wheelsblog.com/wp-content/articole/2008/january/leaked/bmw/tii/5.jpg

Since i know you read 1addicts anyway, here's the link to the parts:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3888

and for those who want to know what's on that steering wheel...
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3596&d=1201635985

who is Jeremy Clarkson?

He is one of the car reviewers on BBC's Top Gear television show.

The 1 series isn't that exciting to me, in Germany it has been a hatch back for years, which I think looks a little better. I don't see why BMW wants to have a cheap car...

^ is that a two minute 40 sec quarter mile, jk. Nice pics.

Not quite true.. The 135 tii above is the first 135i concept. There were 1 or 2 more that followed afterwards that had slightly different setups. The one above is the concept for tokyo.

There may have been multiple prototypes, but BMW stated at the Tokyo Auto Show that the only reason the tii concept was there was to show off BMW Performance Parts (obviously we now know this to be untrue). I don't see anything at all different between these concepts in terms of the exterior at all. Point is, you can buy the parts today and make it look damn near identical to the tii concept (minus the fancy stickers of course).

As far as the interior goes I have no idea. Everything add-on part I've seen on any of the concepts and the performance catalog looks as tacky as it can possibly get. That feux suede and carbon fiber is horrendous. I've tried to block it from my memory as much as possible.

I like many BMW's regardless of Jeremy Clarkson. I just find them to be overpriced and driven by tons of posers.

E36 and E46 M3s are the cat's ass when it comes to performance driving. Most good drivers, in an M3, will deliver whup-a$$ on most any other car, on most any sort of road. Perhaps not a drag race, but who goes drag-racing in a sports car anyway?

People whose opinions I trust have already written about the new M3. Compared to the older versions, they say it's no comparison.

Anyone who says otherwise is typically selling something, or is a fanboi... Hey, I love my RX-8... don't get me wrong about that. But in terms of feel, refinement, and raw performance number, stock to stock, an M3 will wipe the floor with an RX-8.

BTW- I hope, later this year, to face my car off against a friend's E46 M3, and another's 335i sedan. All of the cars are carrying upgraded wheels, tires, brakes, and suspension, and the 335i lays down 385 horsepower. I'm praying for a twisty track on a wet day! :)

I like many BMW's regardless of Jeremy Clarkson. I just find them to be overpriced and driven by tons of posers.


You hit the nail on the head there. Most of the people in my office that have them have NO idea about the original purpose and intent of BMW. They just have them to have the 'successful' appearance.

The new M3 is the ultimate driving machine? Are you serious?

E36 and E46 M3s are the cat's ass when it comes to performance driving. Most good drivers, in an M3, will deliver whup-a$$ on most any other car, on most any sort of road. Perhaps not a drag race, but who goes drag-racing in a sports car anyway?

People whose opinions I trust have already written about the new M3. Compared to the older versions, they say it's no comparison.

Anyone who says otherwise is typically selling something, or is a fanboi...

I assume that you were replying to my comment:
Most British mags (Evo, Car, Autocar) who understand that there is more to cars then just numbers say the same thing: the M3 has lost some more of its feel.

Here is a good summary on the best M cars of all time:
http://www.m3post.com/goodiesforyou/evo.pdf

Every "Letters" section Roundel (BMW CCA magazine) contains letters from people who have been BMW owners for generations complaining about the company's direction which the new M5, M6 and now sadly the M3 emphasize.
Every track event that I attend: same story.
Most of the people complaining are not poseurs but people who track their car and like the involvement of driving. There is more to cars then just numbers.

For ultimate driving machines one has to look at the E30 M3, Lotus and some Porsches. The new M3 is build from the outset as a compromised machine build to accommodate the CSL version and probably even a CS down the line. It weights 1655 kg that only 65kg less than the E39 M5. I still think it is a terrific car but it is far off from an ultimate driving machine.

P.S the brakes still SUCK :)

When I first saw the new 135i I thought it would be my next car. But when I took my 328i in for an oil change, I noticed that it was way too small. For a few thousand dollars more you can get a 3 serious. And if the saden isn't sporty enough for you, then you should look at the 3 coupe in person with the optional 1k sports package. The 3 coupe has just as much room as the rx8 when sitting in the back seats. Now here is were you guys will disagree... I actually like the steering of my 3 serious over the rx8's. It feels harder (somewhat stiffer) and more refined. The sports steering wheel is just amazing to the touch. But as mentioned there is def something special about the 8. I miss it sometimes. But its the overall package that gets me. Service for one is 100 times better than my experience with mazda. The mazda SA was actually telling me nothing was wrong with my engine just so I would go over the warranty mileage having them not have to fix my 8. Now I get everything for free to include brake changes and wipers. I even complained about my speaker making a strange noise when using the car's Bluetooth and they replaced my speaker without evidence or without anything having to be reproduced. My car granted its not the TT 335i, has enough power for me and has damn good quality components for being an entry level bmw. I even have power seats and leather, options that would have made my 8 cost about the same as the bmw. And the price was fair granted all the options I got. My rx8 cost me 32k when it first came out and the bmw was 37. Not that big of a dif, and service alone is worth the 5k imo. My 2 cents.

135 is probably a really good car, but I still think BMW screwed it up. It's uglier, barely lighter, and barely less expensive than a 3 series. Why wouldn't someone just get a 3?

135 is probably a really good car, but I still think BMW screwed it up. It's uglier, barely lighter, and barely less expensive than a 3 series. Why wouldn't someone just get a 3?
If you're comparing it to a 3.28i then it's got 70 more horsepower and a better suspension. If you're comparing it to the 335i it's 200lbs lighter with a tighter suspension and about $5k less (base price).

135 is probably a really good car, but I still think BMW screwed it up. It's uglier, barely lighter, and barely less expensive than a 3 series. Why wouldn't someone just get a 3?

1. It does not have active steering (more pure feeling)
2. It has M-tuned suspension for 135i
3. It IS lighter
4. It IS smaller - close to E46 size
5. It has the BEST brakes (even better than M3 to some)

People who got 1 series...they WANT to drive, rather than looking good. Because we all agree...this car is FUGLY. :lol:

1. It does not have active steering (more pure feeling)
2. It has M-tuned suspension for 135i
3. It IS lighter
4. It IS smaller - close to E46 size
5. It has the BEST brakes (even better than M3 to some)

People who got 1 series...they WANT to drive, rather than looking good. Because we all agree...this car is FUGLY. :lol:

1. Active steering is an option, but one I wouldn't get.
2. True.
3. True.
4. Very True.
5. I test drove it. The brakes are good, but in all honesty, the RX-8 has better brakes. That might be due to the weight of the car, but it's not that much heavier than the RX-8.

And I don't agree that the car is ugly at all, in fact, I like the look of it a lot. It probably won't turn heads like the RX-8 did when it first came out, but it's better in person than in photos and it'd be even better with the Tii kit. You are correct that it is a driver's car though. It drives extremely well.

I'm debating whether or not to buy one right now. There's a 3 month wait for delivery from Munich and pricing is less than ideal, but after test driving, I was very compelled to drop the $1000 deposit and just let them order it.

I just came back from Mid Ohio, where I say a 135i. I was hoping to hate it, but ended falling for it. Will have to take it out for a drive (the 128i as well) and see how it actually is.

1. Active steering is an option, but one I wouldn't get.
2. True.
3. True.
4. Very True.
5. I test drove it. The brakes are good, but in all honesty, the RX-8 has better brakes. That might be due to the weight of the car, but it's not that much heavier than the RX-8.

And I don't agree that the car is ugly at all, in fact, I like the look of it a lot. It probably won't turn heads like the RX-8 did when it first came out, but it's better in person than in photos and it'd be even better with the Tii kit. You are correct that it is a driver's car though. It drives extremely well.

I'm debating whether or not to buy one right now. There's a 3 month wait for delivery from Munich and pricing is less than ideal, but after test driving, I was very compelled to drop the $1000 deposit and just let them order it.
I saw a review of the RX-8 vs the 135i and they both stopped within 1-2 ft of each other from 70mph. The 135i is heavier so I would definitely classify it as having excellent brakes. And the person you quote was speaking relative to other BMW's (not the RX-8).

Anyways, minor points. Like I said, might not be the car for everyone, but it deserves a second look. Definitely not what I expected when it comes to BMW.

I saw a review of the RX-8 vs the 135i and they both stopped within 1-2 ft of each other from 70mph. The 135i is heavier so I would definitely classify it as having excellent brakes. And the person you quote was speaking relative to other BMW's (not the RX-8).

Anyways, minor points. Like I said, might not be the car for everyone, but it deserves a second look. Definitely not what I expected when it comes to BMW.

Don't get me wrong, the brakes were very good, I just liked the 8's stock brakes more. I need to drive it again, and I get to this weekend while I'm in chicago as my dad is checking out the X6 to replace his X5.

Anyway, for those interested, the best thing you can do is drive the car. It will surprise you.

That said, mine will probably be on order either at the end of this month or next month. I'm trying to get an 09 model year.

Anyway, for those interested, the best thing you can do is drive the car. It will surprise you.

That said, mine will probably be on order either at the end of this month or next month. I'm trying to get an 09 model year.

I'm afraid to drive this car because I know I will want it. To me it sits right where M3's used to be 8 or so years ago back when I wanted one so bad and couldn't dream of affording one. A true driver's car.

I have always wished they build a barebones M3, without all the extra non-essential features that add weight to the car. To make it a true M3, not just an upgraded 3 series with a powerful engine. Maybe keep the current M3 and call it M3L (L is for Luxury) :).

It's called the M3 CSL. Look it up.

Personally, I like Jezza because he does not give a damn what you think. He's a man of his own world. That, and he has great passion for vehicles and the engineering that goes behind them.

I do agree with him on a lot of things, especially on the issue of soul and passion in engineering. I hate the Corolla. I hate the Civic. I hate most cars I see on the streets. I hate them because they were designed and built like a fridge.

When JC bangs on about a lack of soul, I can definitely see what he's talking about (being a little artist myself). The vehicles were designed with the inspiration of a toaster! I come from a family that owns nearly exclusively Toyotas. It was 100% Toyotas until my dad came home one day with a Volvo XC90.

I hate my parent's Toyotas. All of them inspired little more than a desire to mutilate myself. All of them had the lines drawn by a moron.

JC has a point. It's up to you to filter out what's total sarcasm, and what he's serious about.

I'm afraid to drive this car because I know I will want it. To me it sits right where M3's used to be 8 or so years ago back when I wanted one so bad and couldn't dream of affording one. A true driver's car.

You should drive it just for the experience of driving it.
I'm currently deciding what to do about delivery, IE, European Delivery (pick it up in Munich, head to the nurburgring and run a few laps, then drive it to the port) or BMW Performance Center Delivery in South Carolina and drive it back to TX. The fact that BMW even has these options for all of their vehicles really tells you something about how they feel about their cars. If that's not passion, I don't know what is.

You should drive it just for the experience of driving it.
I'm currently deciding what to do about delivery, IE, European Delivery (pick it up in Munich, head to the nurburgring and run a few laps, then drive it to the port) or BMW Performance Center Delivery in South Carolina and drive it back to TX. The fact that BMW even has these options for all of their vehicles really tells you something about how they feel about their cars. If that's not passion, I don't know what is.

That would definitely be a hell of an experience! I've always wanted to just be at the Nurburgring at least once, let alone drive on it. :)

It's called the M3 CSL. Look it up.

Personally, I like Jezza because he does not give a damn what you think. He's a man of his own world. That, and he has great passion for vehicles and the engineering that goes behind them.

I do agree with him on a lot of things, especially on the issue of soul and passion in engineering. I hate the Corolla. I hate the Civic. I hate most cars I see on the streets. I hate them because they were designed and built like a fridge.

When JC bangs on about a lack of soul, I can definitely see what he's talking about (being a little artist myself). The vehicles were designed with the inspiration of a toaster! I come from a family that owns nearly exclusively Toyotas. It was 100% Toyotas until my dad came home one day with a Volvo XC90.

I hate my parent's Toyotas. All of them inspired little more than a desire to mutilate myself. All of them had the lines drawn by a moron.

JC has a point. It's up to you to filter out what's total sarcasm, and what he's serious about.

You sure use the word "hate" a lot to describe your feelings towards inanimate objects.

There's nothing wrong with soul or passion or uniqueness, but if you praise it while bashing practicality and utilitarianism and purpose then you are just an elitist snob. Everything in life is relative. Even if every car designer poured tears, sweat, blood, and heart into their designs you would still end up with a lot of cars that looked the same. The most unique and most special would be regarded as the king.

I like the RX-8 because it's unique. But if I ever liked myself more because I owned a more unique car then I'd be quite a sad little person. Jeremy Clarkson is fun to watch and definitely provides some insight that you don't get from most automotive sources. However, he has some very explosive biases that keep him from being fair in many, many cases. I suppose this makes him a better entertainer, but most certainly not a better reporter of cars.

I still stand by my initial assessment. Too many people are influenced too heavily by what he says and end up as blind fanatics of this or that.

You sure use the word "hate" a lot to describe your feelings towards inanimate objects.

Because I do dislike them. In fact, this coming summer I'm heading home, and all I will have to drive is a shitty Camry. Soulless fridge.

There's nothing wrong with soul or passion or uniqueness, but if you praise it while bashing practicality and utilitarianism and purpose then you are just an elitist snob. Everything in life is relative. Even if every car designer poured tears, sweat, blood, and heart into their designs you would still end up with a lot of cars that looked the same. The most unique and most special would be regarded as the king.

Utilitarianism and practically are NOT mutually exclusive from soul and passion. Not every 2 door coupe is a showcase of passion (e.g., Camry Solara. It's a toaster just like the Camry), and not every 4 door sedan is a showcase of blandness and "soul-lessness" (previous chassis generation Subaru Impreza WRXs. Those were MAN machines. Everything in it just screamed manliness, from you having to powerslam the shifter, to how it drove, to how the engine sounded, to how it looks. Another example, Alfa Romeo sedans.).

I like the RX-8 because it's unique. But if I ever liked myself more because I owned a more unique car then I'd be quite a sad little person. Jeremy Clarkson is fun to watch and definitely provides some insight that you don't get from most automotive sources. However, he has some very explosive biases that keep him from being fair in many, many cases. I suppose this makes him a better entertainer, but most certainly not a better reporter of cars.

I still stand by my initial assessment. Too many people are influenced too heavily by what he says and end up as blind fanatics of this or that.

Every man is biased. You are biased, and so am I.

Jezza may not always be fair (he did pwn the Cadillac CTS-V for something vague), but like I said, it's up to you to filter out the sarcasm from the point he's trying to make. He likes passion in engineering. If you build your car like you'd build a fridge, prepare to get Jezzas disapproval.

You do realize the man drives a Ford Focus (or at least did), right? It's fun to spin cars around a track or through the backroads of England, but at the end of the day we're all trying to find a car to live with everyday. He's more entertaining than he is informative. I can find out much more useful information about the real livability and personality of a car by reading posts from people who actually own the car. I can learn how it feels to me by test driving it.

Anyways, nothing really more to say. I'll keep watching and keep pointing out when I think people are saying dangerous biased information. I think it's good when we all help do that.

Think my wife banned me from test driving any car until mine is paid off.

I know if I drove the 135 I'd want one really bad. Selling a 1 1/2 yr old RX8 would not work wonders for my bank account.

God, is that faux carbon fiber strip across the dash retarded. It looks like it was ripped directly out of a Passat. Very tacky.

Oh, and contender for ugliest ass ever.

I still like the car, but BMW has some really hideous designs, and this does not help their law of averages on that mark.