Just wondering, has anyboy been able to reach the 500whp mark with the 13b-MSP yet?? I dont remember hearing anything about it, nor can I find any info about one. Just kinda of wondering why we haven't been able to hit it yet... any thoughts anyone??:scratchhe

10:1 compression ratio for starters.

Just wondering, has anyboy been able to reach the 500whp mark with the 13b-MSP yet?? I dont remember hearing anything about it, nor can I find any info about one. Just kinda of wondering why we haven't been able to hit it yet... any thoughts anyone??:scratchhe

The answer is yes. The number was actually in the upper 500whp using c-16 and 30 plus psi(yes it had a custom metal upper intake manifold, ignition, mechanically controlled APV/SSV system and a custom return fuel system complete with two huge bosch pumps).

I know this is going to create a million questions, doubts and skepticism but I will not go into it any further. All I will say is that I wasn't the one that accomplished this therefore I am not in the position to talk about it. If the person that I am talking about reads this and wants to talk about it then they can....there is a reason the person opted not to post it....he didn't feel like having to deal with everyones bashing when he knew he had accomplished it and didn't feel the need to prove anything to anyone.

The limitations on the renesis are clear, high compression(although not extremely high and can be dealt with using good engine management), ignition system(too weak) and ECU problems(like the car closing the Throttle halfway though a dyno run because it felt like it....oh wait....thats what happened to me:) ). If you can fix/bypass these three things you can get really far.

My intention with this post is not to create heat or commotion, I am just answering the question from where I stand.

Chris

10:1 compression ratio for starters.

uhh thats not nearly as big of an issue as the ignition issue...

Just wondering, has anyboy been able to reach the 500whp mark with the 13b-MSP yet?? I dont remember hearing anything about it, nor can I find any info about one. Just kinda of wondering why we haven't been able to hit it yet... any thoughts anyone??:scratchhe

Rumored dynos which report higher than 400 are supposedly in the works...but until they are posted...the "official" stance should be...


There exists no evidence which states that it has been done...
There exists also no concrete evidence that it cannot be done...


Currently spark blowout is the biggest issue...but some people apparently have interesting workarounds...

Everyone is still waiting for Esmeril to post an updated dyno as well...

The ignition issue has already been resolved. We're just waiting for the completed products to be released.

10:1 compression ratio for starters.

Nah. That just means you'll make the same power with less boost (and ignition timing).

Nah. That just means you'll make the same power with less boost (and ignition timing).

Exactly!!!

Nah. That just means you'll make the same power with less boost (and ignition timing).


you know ive been saying that since like 2k3 over and over and no one ever believes me- yet when you or fred say it its like freaking gospel

no respect i tell you no respect at all :(

you know ive been saying that since like 2k3 over and over and no one ever believes me- yet when you or fred say it its like freaking gospel

no respect i tell you no respect at all :(

It's because historically...most people reduce the compression of piston engines in order to add boost...

I've been saying the same thing for a while too...but whatevs you know...

The ignition issue has already been resolved. We're just waiting for the completed products to be released.

I have not seen anything specifically relating to HOW it was definitively resolved...got links?

I'ma search right meow too...maybe I missed the thread...

upgraded ignition system :P

So whp is now > 340, unfortunately I don't have any additional details to share besides that.

you know ive been saying that since like 2k3 over and over and no one ever believes me- yet when you or fred say it its like freaking gospel

no respect i tell you no respect at all :(

Well, Fred is the Pope of Wankel. http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Religious/Priests_and_Ministers/Pope.gif

Compression is compression. Its doesn't matter if its static or dynamic.

upgraded ignition system :P

So whp is now > 340, unfortunately I don't have any additional details to share besides that.

http://www.catwack.com/pics/753.jpg

The answer is yes. The number was actually in the upper 500whp using c-16 and 30 plus psi(yes it had a custom metal upper intake manifold, ignition, mechanically controlled APV/SSV system and a custom return fuel system complete with two huge bosch pumps).

I know this is going to create a million questions, doubts and skepticism but I will not go into it any further. All I will say is that I wasn't the one that accomplished this therefore I am not in the position to talk about it. If the person that I am talking about reads this and wants to talk about it then they can....there is a reason the person opted not to post it....he didn't feel like having to deal with everyones bashing when he knew he had accomplished it and didn't feel the need to prove anything to anyone.

The limitations on the renesis are clear, high compression(although not extremely high and can be dealt with using good engine management), ignition system(too weak) and ECU problems(like the car closing the Throttle halfway though a dyno run because it felt like it....oh wait....thats what happened to me:) ). If you can fix/bypass these three things you can get really far.

My intention with this post is not to create heat or commotion, I am just answering the question from where I stand.

Chris
There has got to be pictures! I wanna see it!

The answer is yes. The number was actually in the upper 500whp using c-16 and 30 plus psi(yes it had a custom metal upper intake manifold, ignition, mechanically controlled APV/SSV system and a custom return fuel system complete with two huge bosch pumps).

I know this is going to create a million questions, doubts and skepticism but I will not go into it any further. All I will say is that I wasn't the one that accomplished this therefore I am not in the position to talk about it. If the person that I am talking about reads this and wants to talk about it then they can....there is a reason the person opted not to post it....he didn't feel like having to deal with everyones bashing when he knew he had accomplished it and didn't feel the need to prove anything to anyone.

The limitations on the renesis are clear, high compression(although not extremely high and can be dealt with using good engine management), ignition system(too weak) and ECU problems(like the car closing the Throttle halfway though a dyno run because it felt like it....oh wait....thats what happened to me:) ). If you can fix/bypass these three things you can get really far.

My intention with this post is not to create heat or commotion, I am just answering the question from where I stand.

Chris


I would love to hear more about your friends project. I can understand him not wanting to deal with the haterZ. I just want to see how far the MSP has come. It's been half a decade since its release in Japan.

you know ive been saying that since like 2k3 over and over and no one ever believes me- yet when you or fred say it its like freaking gospel

no respect i tell you no respect at all :(

We're in the same boat! I've been telling people that too, my higher compression just gives me a better starting point!

To the OP; Ignition is the biggest issue. Some have said a company has solved it, but they are yet to officially release a product to date, so it's still an issue. But it all depends on how far that can get us.

Next spring will be an exciting time.

I would love to be in the 350-400rwhp range.

The answer is yes. The number was actually in the upper 500whp using c-16 and 30 plus psi(yes it had a custom metal upper intake manifold, ignition, mechanically controlled APV/SSV system and a custom return fuel system complete with two huge bosch pumps).

I know this is going to create a million questions, doubts and skepticism but I will not go into it any further. All I will say is that I wasn't the one that accomplished this therefore I am not in the position to talk about it. If the person that I am talking about reads this and wants to talk about it then they can....there is a reason the person opted not to post it....he didn't feel like having to deal with everyones bashing when he knew he had accomplished it and didn't feel the need to prove anything to anyone.

The limitations on the renesis are clear, high compression(although not extremely high and can be dealt with using good engine management), ignition system(too weak) and ECU problems(like the car closing the Throttle halfway though a dyno run because it felt like it....oh wait....thats what happened to me:) ). If you can fix/bypass these three things you can get really far.

My intention with this post is not to create heat or commotion, I am just answering the question from where I stand.

Chris

went to google and found this...

http://www.jasperperformance.com/rx8/index.html

Well, Fred is the Pope of Wankel. http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Religious/Priests_and_Ministers/Pope.gif

Compression is compression. Its doesn't matter if its static or dynamic.

OMFG that's funny!

went to google and found this...

http://www.jasperperformance.com/rx8/index.html

No, thats not it. That page has a compilation of pics from other pages, not all are theirs....

Chris

There exists also no concrete evidence that it cannot be done...


There is no such thing as concrete evidence that it cannot be done. All we can ever have is evidence that the people trying haven't figured it out yet :)

Some fella down in PR was making 392rwhp on stock renny back in 05 not sure where he is @ now but here is the thread Click (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=56057&page=4)

Some fella down in PR was making 392rwhp on stock renny back in 05 not sure where he is @ now but here is the thread Click (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=56057&page=4)

The blue car reached close to 500whp at a later date, it was being worked on by a different mechanic which the guy I am talking about. He reached the number I mentioned on another renesis/8.

Chris

god damn thats insane, that 8 has to be screaming!

Nah. That just means you'll make the same power with less boost (and ignition timing).

Volume.

Subscribed

10:1 compression ratio for starters.


That's really not a problem. M3 has 11.5:1, and HPF has a production turbo kit that runs 12psi. On 91 get's 440RWHP daily driving.

On race fuel, 650RWHP. It has run 11.4 in the 1/4 a few customers cars.

Different technologies, but compression ratio is the same issue..and it really isn't an issue...tuning is the key.

They have built engines for the e46 available now but yeah all the kits like the Active Autowerks supercharger and most of the other kits just made sure tune is good and added alky/water injection for an added measure of protection. Things are starting to look good around here.

Yes sir. I think it will be a combo of alky, these bigger turbo kits, and ignition that will open the flood gates of power and products

They have built engines for the e46 available now but yeah all the kits like the Active Autowerks supercharger and most of the other kits just made sure tune is good and added alky/water injection for an added measure of protection. Things are starting to look good around here.

Very rarely does anybody build a S54 E46 M3 engine. 99.99% run stock internals with FI up to 650+WHP on a turbo kit, that is on race gas. SC FI and alcohol injection gives you a bout 500RWHP, stock internals pump gas.

Otherwise, the limit is about 425-440RWHP on any FI setup on the E46 M3 running pump fuel that is reliable and won't detonate the engine.

Anyway...I am looking to move to an RX8 and sell my 03 M3. There are no turbo kits but one for $16k to provide 400RWHP. Only SCs are available due to the individual throttle bodies...you just can't do for example twin screws with that setup. Hence, your choices for the M3 are very expensive single turbo kit, or SC with a smooth linear power delivery. That is it for the moment. I am tired of 273RWHP with the M3..it just isn't enough power for me personally.

I personally believe turbos are more efficient and have generally higher HP output potential for not much more cost...and prefer that route. It appears in the M3 world some alternatives that are less expensive are on the horizon..but mine has 60K on the clock..and really want 400RWHP or close with a turbo setup..sometimes soon, don't want to wait it out another 2 years and miss out on turbo enjoyment.

Sorry for heading off topic guys...but hence why I am hanging around here..in fact, heading over to Mazsport in Largo this afternoon to maybe see what they got and get some rides in a boosted to get an idea if it is something I really want to do.

Good luck.

well im glad to hear you are going to be an 8 owner, make sure you post your results of your FI kit as i am interested

Very rarely does anybody build a S54 E46 M3 engine. 99.99% run stock internals with FI up to 650+WHP on a turbo kit, that is on race gas. SC FI and alcohol injection gives you a bout 500RWHP, stock internals pump gas.

Otherwise, the limit is about 425-440RWHP on any FI setup on the E46 M3 running pump fuel that is reliable and won't detonate the engine.



Yeah i keep any eye on other cars forums from time to time. Thats what i was trying to say, just not as detailed. It started out with "FI = kaboom" but now its becoming available and better, much like our beloved 8's story with hp mods.

jajaja 500whp? you must be joking.

you can't get 500whp with any engine just because the tune is great.

RENE is just not meant for a high output.

even if all issues are resolved, RENE will NEVER make more than 500whp and run more than few hours.

ha, we will see about that

even 400whp will be tough.

people talk about ignition this tuning that, but just because one issue is resolved, that doesn't mean we'll magically jump another 100whp.

jajaja 500whp? you must be joking.

you can't get 500whp with any engine just because the tune is great.

RENE is just not meant for a high output.

even if all issues are resolved, RENE will NEVER make more than 500whp and run more than few hours.

Eat shit, troll.

jaja who are you calling a troll?

The douchebag with 10 posts that comes on the forum and tells us this is impossible when reputable people tell us it has already been done. Get a life.

yea, and you obviously havent talked to chris

cnnmn, you're f'ing idiot. eat shit.

we've been at footstep of 400whp for AWHILE. fixing some ignition problem isn't going to rocket us to 500whp. that's all i'm saying.

cnnmn, you're f'ing idiot. eat shit.


Temper, buddy, temper... jumpy folk do get banned here now and then.
Sounds like a FIGHT is coming up :lol2:
Lets keep it fun!

when did we say that fixing the ignition would give us 500 hp

will do RR. i suppose that msg is also meant for RG.

i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but rene can probably handle 50 shots or so with stock fuel pump, probably 75-100 with upgraded ems and upgraded fuel pump.

some form of FI can be reliable for rene. just not 500whp, or even 400whp, and i'll stand by that.

^lies

you can stand by it all you want, but we know its going to happen. AND the engine will last more than a couple hours

Don't put nitrous on your Renesis either, 'cuz that will destroy your engine.

Nawzz + rotars = zzzzzzBOOM!

i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

Yo, Hes dead seriouse!

Don't put nitrous on your Renesis either, 'cuz that will destroy your engine.

Nitrous? You must be on :weedpoke:

:rofl:

this guy is carazy talk!!

you should battle with him charles, put him to shame

im down

i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but rene can probably handle 50 shots or so with stock fuel pump, probably 75-100 with upgraded ems and upgraded fuel pump.

some form of FI can be reliable for rene. just not 500whp, or even 400whp, and i'll stand by that.

And exactly what kind of rep are you suppose to "stand by" with your vaunted 26 post?

I have seen a daily driven 400hp rennie, it currently has 7,000 miles with no issues.

Granted it is still in RND, but it is running and has no issues.

I think you are better off just STFU.

How can one make such empirical claims when clearly not also having searched this website to see that his opinons are 100% incorrect. Not in theory, but in reality. Plus, if he took a look at my avatar he may have also taken a clue that I was being facetious.

Trolls don't need facts. They are always right :lol2:

I've organized many gotham tuning meets in the past and I really don't care if i'm given credit here. I just wanted to meet up with some folks in my area with rx8s.

I don't want to start any shit with you people. I just bought an rx8 as a daily driver and I thought I can have fun on this forum, but I suppose I'll just lurk for whatever knowledge this forum can impart. I'll probably end up getting esmeril turbo kit and will keep you updated.

When I said few hours, I meant few hours of BOOST not normal drive. that'll translate into few months or driving depdning on your foot.

I don't think 90% of you know what it takes to go from 350whp to 400whp. even with 13REW, it's not a simple task. once you start leaning out and squeezing hp, there's a point where you start sacrificing so much reliability for little gain in power. what I do see here is very few knowledgeable members and bunch of idiots chanting a mindless chorus.

preach all you want, but you dont know how knowledgable we may be, and you sure have shown how arrogant and ignorant you are

Sigtech, you sir are an idiot. Super Tuner Mag had a 600+ rwhp 8 in it two months ago.

that may be true, but WM, we dont need to stoop down to his level and call him names. information over ignorance

jaja I got nothing to prove. this is sort of coming back to high school. I sense charles and mazdamaniac is bit different but rest of you are f'ing little kids running around with diapers.

How can one make such empirical claims ...

Don't be bringin' da umpire into this!

I was being facetious.

There you go with your big Latin words again.

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/ebayfake_files/sticker.jpg

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/ebayfake_files/NOS.jpg

I've organized many gotham tuning meets in the past and I really don't care if i'm given credit here. I just wanted to meet up with some folks in my area with rx8s.

I don't want to start any shit with you people. I just bought an rx8 as a daily driver and I thought I can have fun on this forum, but I suppose I'll just lurk for whatever knowledge this forum can impart. I'll probably end up getting esmeril turbo kit and will keep you updated.

When I said few hours, I meant few hours of BOOST not normal drive. that'll translate into few months or driving depdning on your foot.

I don't think 90% of you know what it takes to go from 350whp to 400whp. even with 13REW, it's not a simple task. once you start leaning out and squeezing hp, there's a point where you start sacrificing so much reliability for little gain in power. what I do see here is very few knowledgeable members and bunch of idiots chanting a mindless chorus.

Not that I need to prove anything but the blue renny I mentioned has been running at 500whp for the past 2.5years without a rebuild or breakage. It was running at low to mid 400whp for 2 years before that. Oh, and the guy daily drives it to work and to his daily functions. When things are done right they work. This same car broke with less than 300whp using a greddy kit before going to the custom set up, what does that tell you? I can also tell you that in PR there is a 1ltr suzuki 3 cyl. engine on a low10sec-high 9seg fwd car generating 400+whp because it has the correct ignition, fuel and engine upgrades......there is not limit if things are done right.... Just because you haven't met the right people doesn't mean things don't exist/aren't possible or anything of the sort. I bet you in the early 1900s no one could believe a person could fly but the wright brothers' neighbor new it was possible...Heck, in 1995 getting 350whp was the considered the ceiling of performance for a REW...

Chris

I've organized many gotham tuning meets in the past

I corrected a couple Steve Kan tunes recently...

jaja I got nothing to prove. this is sort of coming back to high school. I sense charles and mazdamaniac is bit different but rest of you are f'ing little kids running around with diapers.

can you please come change it then, i made poopy

might have known this thread would turn into a mass - debate .

and it started with only one guy, who failed to research. the key to winning a debate, is to know the otherside very well along with yours

baby alive? haha, ok

ohh, haha, ok

c, why are we talking about a toy that poops in a 500whp thread? i'm torn whether to go back and read the last 2 pages... what do u recommend? :)

btw, how's the move going? noticed your location is still detroit?

ah thanks. :)

and touche.

jaja I got nothing to prove. this is sort of coming back to high school. I sense charles and mazdamaniac is bit different but rest of you are f'ing little kids running around with diapers.

Poke your head into the Major Horsepower Upgrades section and do a bit of reading...what you find might surprise you...

I see that this thread has also been officially hijacked...........this forum is making less and less sense these days

That is because no one does anything new anymore. We all just hang out in the lounge and discuss Kim's avatars :)

prreettyy much

http://www.rx8club.com/image.php?u=29224&dateline=1190784295

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