ran 14.5 with 2.1 60 FT. next run got a 1.9x 60 ft and messed up 3-4 shift so he ran 14.6! he believes the car can do 14.3!

here is the runs.

R/T .358
60. 2.17
330. 6.07
1/8. 9.35
MPH 75.64
1000. 12.17
1/4. 14.57
MPH. 94.07


R/T. .455
60.1.98
330. 5.98
1/8. 9.29
MPH. 76.03
1000. 12..09
1/4. 14.66
MPH. 93.33
In this last run I missed the fourth gear shift really bad. to the point where the engine hit the rev limiter 2 times and still pulled a 14.6 I feel this run would have landed a 14.3 run. to be continue. My Rx8 is still bone stock.

watch out! I am sure someone will come by and let us know how it's impossible and that the track needs to calibrate or something :D

Anyway, have fun!

Nice runs! Lets see some slips, and is the car still stock? :)

yes he said the car is still "bone-stock". HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT, IKE?

bone stock. the only modification was my 4 year old daughters barbie doll in the rear seat.

Good job, was this on race gas, and how they hell did you manage a 1.9 60ft., that's a great launch. You were on street tires correct (guessing bone-stock would include that), and what RPMs were you dropping the clutch at?

Better work on those reaction times. You are coming out of the box too soon. :p
Great times!
I had to drop a little bit of change into both of my cars to get them into that range from stock (MX-3 and Miata). A little more change knocked another second and a half off of that. Maybe I can expect the same from the Renesis.
I am inspired. Maybe I'll go pick up an RX-8 this week.

Originally posted by Judge Ito
the only modification was my 4 year old daughters barbie doll in the rear seat.

That's why! I heard those things add +40 hp to the car! :p

Congrats on the run. If you could post a scan of the slip, it will shut those trolls' mouth once an for all. Nice run, and congrats again.

Originally posted by Maniac
Better work on those reaction times. You are coming out of the box too soon. :p
Great times!
I had to drop a little bit of change into both of my cars to get them into that range from stock (MX-3 and Miata). A little more change knocked another second and a half off of that. Maybe I can expect the same from the Renesis.
I am inspired. Maybe I'll go pick up an RX-8 this week. you noticed I red lighted every run. Most of the times I have a reaction in the .530 to .540's

Originally posted by downshift
That's why! I heard those things add +40 hp to the car! :p

Congrats on the run. If you could post a scan of the slip, it will shut those trolls' mouth once an for all. Nice run, and congrats again. I'll give Vosko the time slips and he could post them for me. right now I don't have a scanner.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Good job, was this on race gas, and how they hell did you manage a 1.9 60ft., that's a great launch. You were on street tires correct (guessing bone-stock would include that), and what RPMs were you dropping the clutch at? 100 octane unleaded race fuel. 1.9 60 FT. took a little bit of practice. yes on the factory street tires and launched @8,000 rpms...the rest is up to the power shifting. Ill be test and tunning soon again. Maybe a 14.2 next time out.

Originally posted by Judge Ito
100 octane unleaded race fuel. 1.9 60 FT. took a little bit of practice. yes on the factory street tires and launched @8,000 rpms...the rest is up to the power shifting. Ill be test and tunning soon again. Maybe a 14.2 next time out.

Well, this is a bit of a disappointment. I thought the 14.5 was from normal gas. Since you're pretty good at this, can you run it on 91 or 93 octane and let us know how far off the performance is compared to 100 octane?

This shouldn't be anything that great. I was happy and all, and then read it was on race gas. Well, I guess I'll have to wait for happiness when somebody runs 14.5 sec. on 91 octane. :)

Hate to burst anyone's "hater" bubble, but higher octane doesn't contain any more power than running the specified rated fuel.
If there is a problem with preignition or such, the higher octane will raise the knock threshold at the expense of a later flame front - this will protect the motor at a cost of LOWER power.
Unless the track conditions were conducive to preignition (high altitude, high temperatures, blended fuel, etc...), his times can only get better with lower octane.

why did he have to put higher octane. Gonna have to wait longer for proof to shut the trolls up.

Originally posted by downshift
Well, this is a bit of a disappointment. I thought the 14.5 was from normal gas. Since you're pretty good at this, can you run it on 91 or 93 octane and let us know how far off the performance is compared to 100 octane? because this Rx8 runs alot of ignition timing advance(I checked it with my timing light) over 30 degrees of timing for the leading spark plugs, in top of that the engine has a huge intake port, to that you add higher compression rotors. All this combination off large intake ports, higher compression rotors and alot of timimg advance creates a MENU for detonation. that is why I use the higher octane to prevent detonation. Ill be test and tunning again and Ill make a run with the regular 93 octane first.

A 14.57 (14.6) with 100 octane and powershifting is pretty good, and if he really did powershift (not letting off the gas when shifting) thats a very advanced and damaging shift technique that will usually net you .1-.2 lower ET's vs normal shifting. I still find it odd the MPHs are still so low, even with 100 octane and powershifting. But overall i'm sure the 100 octane and powershifting combo was good for a .3-.4 better ET, expecially since people have already posted dynos showing that higher octane gas on the Renesis yields quite a bit more HP.

I wish I could learn to powershift, but I am not sure i'd want to make a habit of it unless I want to make a habit of getting my tranny and clutch replaced.

But good runs!

BTW RussellP, 1 guy running a good time in an rx8 really doesn't mean much. There will always be a handful of cars that are concidered factory freak. I wish I got one of the 350z's running 13.6@103 right out the factory doors bone stock!

my power shifts are super flawless. almost sounds like the car has a air shifted gear box. first miss shift I had into fourth gear. I guess I was a bit anxious to run faster then the 14.5 previous run. but in the world of drag racing the clock is your enemy and shifting is the name of the game.

How much practice did it take you to learn powershifting? Have you done it on past cars? I would love to learn but I am too scared to try it on my Z because of the damange I might and probably will do.

I seen video of it and it looks like a blast to do!

Originally posted by Blue 350z
How much practice did it take you to learn powershifting? Have you done it on past cars? I would love to learn but I am too scared to try it on my Z because of the damange I might and probably will do.

I seen video of it and it looks like a blast to do! I've been drag racing for over 15 years. I started to power shift with my first gen Rx7 I owned back in 1988. If your going to learn, try to find a car that is old and has little value and start to learn the fundamentals there. Your going to have to be aggressive with your hand that is shifting. grab the shirter firm and hard. There is no playing around when your power shifting(especially with a car that has some serious power. over 400rwhp) When you launch get ready to power shift into second gear, At this point mash that clutch pedal really fast with out letting that gas pedal come up and shift firm and fast then release that clutch pedal. repeat the procedure into the rest of the gears. The trick is to shift smooth and fast with out releasing the gas pedal. once you get the hang of it you will never regular shift again.

The RENESIS advances the timing as much as it CAN without detonation. This is why the car will still run fine on lower octane gas, just with reduced performance (I.E. doesn't advance as far). I would imagine if it was running with a certain advance with 91, it could probably run higher with 100. (though I'm sure there is a timing limit) Someone would have to check the timing with varying gas grades to determine just how high taking the octane will get you... I mean, if it's already as advanced as it will go on 93, why spend the HUGE extra cash for the racing gas.. y'know? Anyways, I'd love to try it out, but i lack a source of racing gas up here...

Originally posted by Judge Ito
I've been drag racing for over 15 years. I started to power shift with my first gen Rx7 I owned back in 1988. If your going to learn, try to find a car that is old and has little value and start to learn the fundamentals there. Your going to have to be aggressive with your hand that is shifting. grab the shirter firm and hard. There is no playing around when your power shifting(especially with a car that has some serious power. over 400rwhp) When you launch get ready to power shift into second gear, At this point mash that clutch pedal really fast with out letting that gas pedal come up and shift firm and fast then release that clutch pedal. repeat the procedure into the rest of the gears. The trick is to shift smooth and fast with out releasing the gas pedal. once you get the hang of it you will never regular shift again.

I learned to power shift on me 87 Chevy Corsica... yeah baby that beast was quick! ;)

Originally posted by Judge Ito
I've been drag racing for over 15 years. I started to power shift with my first gen Rx7 I owned back in 1988. If your going to learn, try to find a car that is old and has little value and start to learn the fundamentals there. Your going to have to be aggressive with your hand that is shifting. grab the shirter firm and hard. There is no playing around when your power shifting(especially with a car that has some serious power. over 400rwhp) When you launch get ready to power shift into second gear, At this point mash that clutch pedal really fast with out letting that gas pedal come up and shift firm and fast then release that clutch pedal. repeat the procedure into the rest of the gears. The trick is to shift smooth and fast with out releasing the gas pedal. once you get the hang of it you will never regular shift again.

Thanks for the info, I am running thru the logistics of it in my head, there is VERY little room for error and I would imagine the smallist miss-que will result in a bad grind and a ruined run. Maybe i'll take my bro's mid 90's accord and give it a try :D

Originally posted by CraziFuzzy
The RENESIS advances the timing as much as it CAN without detonation.

Wrong.

The Renesis will advance timing as far as its timing tables say it should. It has no way to predict detonation because it has no idea how detonation resistant your gas is going to be.
After your engine experiences preignition, the knock sensor will indicate this to the ECU that will tthen pull a significant amount of timing. The ECU will then use an indexed value for timing from then on.
The ECU doesn't really care what ocatane gas you use because it has no way of knowing this and, therefore, timing retard is reactive not proactive.

To review, let me CLEARLY point out these facts:

1) Lower octane gasoline will produce more power than higher octane gasoline. Octane IS NOT POWER.

2) The ECU does NOT prevent detonation, it attempts to eliminate detonation AFTER it is detected and will then attempt to avoid the conditions (with some limitations) that led to detonation.

BTW - Ignition advance is based on load, not just RPM; you can't check total ignition advance while sitting on the driveway.
You can check you static timing on the driveway with an ignition light and that is all.
It is likely that the Renesis uses even more advance than 30° - it may be as high as 42°. It all depends on load and sensor variables.

Originally posted by Maniac
[

BTW - Ignition advance is based on load, not just RPM; you can't check total ignition advance while sitting on the driveway.
You can check you static timing on the driveway with an ignition light and that is all.
It is likely that the Renesis uses even more advance than 30° - it may be as high as 42°. It all depends on load and sensor variables. [/B] Me personally knowing that the engine has higher compression rotors I did not want to detonate in the dyno. When I made my first dyno pull I checked igniton timing in the dyno making a 4 gear pull using 93 octane. Using a 2 CYCLE TIMING LIGHT. The ignition timing was over 30 degrees BTDC while we did the pull. Rx8 made 188rwhp after I saw that much timing advance under a load I changed to 103 octane and made a pull. Made 196.5 rwhp with the higher octance. I repeat timing was checked under a load and is over 30 degrees of timing advance.

Haha, why was this made a sticky. That's hillarious... Great runs and I'm happy to see the car can get mag times, even if it was on race gas, but making it a sticky is pointless. Hell, there's not even a cool video or a time slip in it. It's sad that you're making it such a monumental occasion for a car to run what it was supposed to all along.

Ike

Ike, you better then anyone should understand that race gas does not make a car faster, it is more of a cheep solution to retard/accelerate a cars timing etc... You also more than anyone puts a whole lot of emphasis on "quarter mile" or "my car can ran this" and I thought you would finally be pacified by this tread and ignore spreading your conspiracy theories about Mazda lying to us. But instead you pick at little things like, it was race gas (your taking it to drag strip most of the cars there do), or not every car is built equal nonsense.

(I believe Judge, Vosko, and im sure time slips will be posted shortly)

I the tread sticky because it is the first time an owner has achieved reported times, a big achievement and hopefully a stop to a lot of the mudslinging.

The damn car dynoed higher with race gas, what more do you want as proof that it will help performance? I'm happy for you guys that the car ran a 14.5 but I still think Mazda is full of crap when they say it has 238HP stock. It doesn't make it a bad car nor am I putting it down, but there is no way that there is 20+% drivetrain loss on a RWD car, and I just don't buy Mazda's explanation for the low dyno runs. <awaits the flames>

Ike

he also said he think he coulda got a 14.3. He got a 14.6 with a major shifting error.

Haha, why was this made a sticky. That's hillarious... Great runs and I'm happy to see the car can get mag times, even if it was on race gas, but making it a sticky is pointless.

Because you and blu350z said it would never run mag times under any condition. All of your flame claims are now, one by one going down. Autox, 1/4 mile, as the people get more comfortable with their cars, all your assumptions and unsubstantiated BS is getting disproved. Enjoy all the posts Ike.

Ike, I'm glad you like your car. I respect that you don't like the RX-8 or rotary engines. But get a life. Really. I want to read more about other 8 owners' experiences and I dont' have time to read everything they write. with all due respect you'd be happier on a WRX forum. (I have an XT-6, would like to replace it w/ a SVX, had considered the WRX before it was evident the 8 would finally make it to production so I'm not anti-Subaru).

anyway, to the point of the thread - J.Ito - what tire pressure did you run? Blue350 - I'm sure you can learn how to 'power shift'-don't worry about the clutch or grinding, as long as you do your normal clutch in you shouldn't have a problem. I supposed my 15.24 was in reality using 'granny' shifting, and normal gasoline. If my car is capable of 14.5 using 100 octane and power shifting that's nice to know, but I'm not very anxious to try it just to prove a point. I'll stick to longer-clutch-life-enducing normal shifting. If someday I get a new RX-7 when they come out and I'm bent on beating the pants off of an STi for some reason, maybe I'll find a POS car to learn speedshifting on then go out and go for some low 13s in that car. But that's a couple years off at best.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Haha, why was this made a sticky. That's hillarious... Great runs and I'm happy to see the car can get mag times, even if it was on race gas, but making it a sticky is pointless. Hell, there's not even a cool video or a time slip in it. It's sad that you're making it such a monumental occasion for a car to run what it was supposed to all along.

Ike Why was this info. made a sticky? I would say reading some of the post that have been writting in this thread, have some valuable information that could help other Rx8 owners improve the performance stats of this great Mazda rotary powered vehicle.
I personally believe the Rx8 will run 14.3 or better next time I test the car. The drag strip I ran 14.5 in, is considered the worst track we have in Jersey. The track is no where near sea level like the other two tracks that I'll be testing in.
When Vosko posted this info. is not to brag about the Rx8 but to give people some valuable information about this car that many people seem to be a little disappointed about.
The Rx8 has some serious potential. I will install some headers and complete exhaust intake and later port and polish the engine and resize the 4&5 fuel injectors and I will run 12.80 or better all motor with a car that tips the scale @3256lbs

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The damn car dynoed higher with race gas, what more do you want as proof that it will help performance? I'm happy for you guys that the car ran a 14.5 but I still think Mazda is full of crap when they say it has 238HP stock. It doesn't make it a bad car nor am I putting it down, but there is no way that there is 20+% drivetrain loss on a RWD car, and I just don't buy Mazda's explanation for the low dyno runs. <awaits the flames>

Ike Who cares what Mazda has to say. rotary engine enthusiats have never followed or listen to anybody when it comes to these cars. 75% of Rx7's in this country have been modified one way or another and so will the Rx8. The point here is the Rx8 has a great foundation for modifications and resulting in some nice power.

All I am going to say is the first time somebody runs a 14.6 you make this a sticky? LOL.. Dynos have already proved that it makes more HP for the RX8 and powershifting is something that maybe 1 in 10,000 will actually try. Also there are always going to be factory freaks.

The 350z's claimed mag times are between 14.1-14.3. Just about every 350z that runs at the track is between 13.9-14.2, even the autos.. EVERY 350z, not 1 in 10,000 that come near the time.

Do you people still not realize that the RX8 is missing about 30+HP? Its not going to run the claimed times! I'm sure a few will come close as in this case with some advantages and a strong car but the norm is still going to be low 15's!

So does 1 car hitting near (14.6 vs 14.5) the mag time with racing gas, a long time drag racer that is poweshifting really mean that everybody can run a 14.5??

Originally posted by rx8daniel
Ike, I'm glad you like your car. I respect that you don't like the RX-8 or rotary engines. But get a life. Really. I want to read more about other 8 owners' experiences and I dont' have time to read everything they write. with all due respect you'd be happier on a WRX forum. (I have an XT-6, would like to replace it w/ a SVX, had considered the WRX before it was evident the 8 would finally make it to production so I'm not anti-Subaru).

anyway, to the point of the thread - J.Ito - what tire pressure did you run? Blue350 - I'm sure you can learn how to 'power shift'-don't worry about the clutch or grinding, as long as you do your normal clutch in you shouldn't have a problem. I supposed my 15.24 was in reality using 'granny' shifting, and normal gasoline. If my car is capable of 14.5 using 100 octane and power shifting that's nice to know, but I'm not very anxious to try it just to prove a point. I'll stick to longer-clutch-life-enducing normal shifting. If someday I get a new RX-7 when they come out and I'm bent on beating the pants off of an STi for some reason, maybe I'll find a POS car to learn speedshifting on then go out and go for some low 13s in that car. But that's a couple years off at best. Daniel I ran the tire pressure @ 17lbs with a really good burnout and the DSC totally OFF I got a 1.9 60 ft. times.

Originally posted by Blue 350z
All I am going to say is the first time somebody runs a 14.6 you make this a sticky? LOL.. Dynos have already proved that it makes more HP for the RX8 and powershifting is something that maybe 1 in 10,000 will actually try. Also there are always going to be factory freaks.

The 350z's claimed mag times are between 14.1-14.3. Just about every 350z that runs at the track is between 13.9-14.2, even the autos.. EVERY 350z, not 1 in 10,000 that come near the time.

Do you people still not realize that the RX8 is missing about 30+HP? Its not going to run the claimed times! I'm sure a few will come close as in this case with some advantages and a strong car but the norm is still going to be low 15's!

So does 1 car hitting near (14.6 vs 14.5) the mag time with racing gas and poweshifting really mean that everybody can run a 14.5?? Ok I try to study your answer here and I would say that we have 2 totally different types of cars with similar weight characteristics but a mayor difference in torque. The Rx8 comes in at 135 to 139 ft lbs of torque tipping the scale @ 3000lbs. low torque has a mayor effect of quarter mile times when your pushing heavy weight like the Rx8. Basically with such low torque and heavy weight there is no room for driving error.

What was that blu350z, I didn't get anything after the wah, wah, wah. 3 cars have been on the track, not 10,000. Speed shifting or power shifting is not hard to do, 20 years ago it was the norm. Synchronizing your left foot to your right hand is done on a daily basis by millions of people in thousand of tasks. Good quarter mile racers do it consitently with little to no effort or damage to their cars. I suggest you learn.

This not only deserves a sticky, but it needs to be posted on the general forum where you and Ike made all your BS claims. The truth needs as much visability as your assumptions got.

as much as I don't want to, I'm going to have to agree with Blue on this one though. I don't think he's really trying to rip on the 8 as much as you would like to think he was. I also think he's more using a 350 as an example, NOT a direct comparison. This isn't a 350z vs. rx8 war here! He's just using the car as an example to state how Mazda's horsepower claims are ridiculously overstated.

Getting a "mag time" should not be a hard ordeal. A normal/good driver with a normal car should be able to get a mag time. A pro racer using pro techniques on a STRONG gas car like Judge Ito's (NOTE: ITS WAY STRONGER THAN MOST, look at his dyno's compared to everyone elses) with RACE gas should be able to get SIGNIFICANTLY better than a mag time.

I don't doubt the rx8 has huge amounts of potential. I love the car, I still want to buy one, and I'm going to cross my fingers that mazda releases a new ECU flash that gets us our power back, so I can still run in BS stock in autocross!

Speed shifting or power shifting is not hard to do, 20 years ago it was the norm

I have owned my 1964 Corvette 4 speed for 23 years. Up until the last 2 years I thoroughly enjoyed speed shifting (I believe power shifting is a more common term these days).

Missing gears happens when speed shifting. The resulting revs above redline from my standpoint ultimately would do more engine harm than the drivetrain. Last year was the first time I had to replace the clutch, pressure plate, flywheel & have the Muncie transmission rebuilt.

None of this work was the result of speed shifting, as I had a leaking rear seal that contaminated the clutch, and a bad third gear syncro in the tranny which was that way when I bought the Vette.

No bottom-end engine work has been performed since ownership. But since the Vette is now just shy of 40 years old, it was time for me to turn my speed shifting to another fine piece of engineering machinery.

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
Because you and blu350z said it would never run mag times under any condition. All of your flame claims are now, one by one going down. Autox, 1/4 mile, as the people get more comfortable with their cars, all your assumptions and unsubstantiated BS is getting disproved. Enjoy all the posts Ike.

Show me where I said it wouldn't run mag times under any condition? I'm happy that someone was able to run a good time, I'm also a bit disappointed that it was on race gas and would have liked to have seen it on 91 or even 93 octane. I'm happy for the 8 owners (save for a few of you) that someone was able to post good times, I just found it funny this was made a sticky. FYI: The mag times are run with full tanks of gas and 91 octane I believe.

I've also said it would be a good autox car but I don't feel it's as good as the S2K given close to equal drivers, one RX-8 beating one S2K means nothing to me. Wait til nationals next year and if the RX-8 can take out the S2K there I'll eat my words.

Judge/Vosko, I really don't turn this into a HP issue, but your oppinion would be appreciated. Do you think the car is making 238 at the crank, or do you think the retuned ECU dropped the HP down more than Mazda is willing to admit like I and many others suspect?

RX8daniel, I like the RX-8 and the Rotary quite a bit, I'm just not a loyalist like some of it's owners, which is to be expected. I post on WRX boards as well as other car boards, I'm here because I like cars and once considered the RX-8. I've stayed because it's damn entertaining here with people like Chuck, Broker, Klegg, and Russell. The contraversy surrounding the whole car has been interesting to follow. I never would have come to the board in the first place had I not been interested in possibly purchasing the car, the events that happened afterwards is what made me stay. I never came here with intentions to troll.

Ike

P.S. Judge, go run a mid 14 on normal gas next time out and get the slips up so I can shutup once and for all on this issue :p

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I never came here with intentions to troll.


Please indulge me. Suppose if you come here to troll, what kind of a response would you write on this thread?

Originally posted by downshift
Please indulge me. Suppose if you come here to troll, what kind of a response would you write on this thread?

I was reffering to the forum...

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I was reffering to the forum...
Riiiight... so it wasn't until you clicked on a thread that the urge overcame you?


I can't ever remember seeing one even remotely useful post from ike or blu.

Slips?


Also, isnt this jumping the gun a wee bit early? Or am I wrong? :confused:

R/T .358
60. 2.17
330. 6.07
1/8. 9.35
MPH 75.64
1000. 12.17
1/4. 14.57
MPH. 94.07


R/T. .455
60.1.98
330. 5.98
1/8. 9.29
MPH. 76.03
1000. 12..09
1/4. 14.66
MPH. 93.33

Yes, but they weren't bracket racing so redlights don't matter and won't do anything for ETs.

Ill be testing today on pump gas 93 octane for two rounds then Ill bump the octane a bit.

Originally posted by Judge Ito
Ill be testing today on pump gas 93 octane for two rounds then Ill bump the octane a bit.

Judge Ito:

what was the track temperature and conditions. I think it has cooled considerably in the northeast. that helps a TON! Also your milage wasnt that high. mid-low 90's. It seems you really got the most out of the car though. The lowest milage I have seen a 13.9 sec 1/4 mile time is 95.5 mph on an EVO and 96 on a modded wrx. Both do 1.7-1.8 sec 60ft. Of course a car that does 14.5 at 97mph would beat both of those cars silly on the expressway.

my old T2 ran 13.7@100mph....

A car that runs mid 14s is not going to beat a EVO on a highway roll and would even have hard times with a stock WRX let alone a modded one.

Ike

Whats important is NOT the ET but the MPH. ET is mostly Launch and shift tech. dependent (along w/ torque/hp), the MPH is horsepower to the ground.

Originally posted by Judge Ito
Ill be testing today on pump gas 93 octane for two rounds then Ill bump the octane a bit.

Well, how did it go?

Yesterday the weather conditions were really good for a better E.T. But I could not get the car working correctly with the launch. I got too much traction and the rear almost fell of the car. Once I launched I had to aboard the run. The second run I played with the tire pressure a bit, The Rx8 launched a bit better but still to aggresive on the rear and I just decided I did not want that type of reaction out the launch and call it a day. All I could say the car was pulling very crisp in between shifts and rpms a bit better then last time. To bad I could not make the best of yesterday because the car is making more power with the cold weather and less humidity that we are having here in the northeast.

damn

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Good job, was this on race gas, and how they hell did you manage a 1.9 60ft., that's a great launch. You were on street tires correct (guessing bone-stock would include that), and what RPMs were you dropping the clutch at?

I'm just jumping in on the first page, but IKE, I'm surprised you don't know about lowering street tire pressures, especially in the WRX! How else could I do a 1.81 0 on stock RE92's, LOL.


Don't go too low or bad things will happen! And make your non-driven wheels have less resistance. Increase the pressure to the max rating on the side wall.

Originally posted by syntrix
I'm just jumping in on the first page, but IKE, I'm surprised you don't know about lowering street tire pressures, especially in the WRX! How else could I do a 1.81 0 on stock RE92's, LOL.


Don't go too low or bad things will happen! And make your non-driven wheels have less resistance. Increase the pressure to the max rating on the side wall.

You should know that tire pressure depends on how much you're modded and what tires you run, and with a slightly modded WRX it's better to raise tire pressure than it is to lower it. I got rid of the RE92s before I even picked my car up from the dealer and with my tires and most WRXs higher tire pressure is better/safer.
I know very well about tire prssures for various types of drivetrains, what led you to believe I didn't?

Actually, lowering to the same levels at 225hp produced the bese results at 340hp in the wrx.

Might want to experiment with that ito. Ask around the track, don't rely on internet messageboard advice ;)

Originally posted by syntrix
Actually, lowering to the same levels at 225hp produced the bese results at 340hp in the wrx.

Might want to experiment with that ito. Ask around the track, don't rely on internet messageboard advice ;)


Was that meant to be adressed to Ito? Anyhow a tiny bit of wheelspin is a good thing, I'm not basing this only on message boards. 40-45 lbs. and 1.8 60' are still rather easy to come by on a stock rex, and it's a little less wear and tear on the tranny and slipping the clutch a bit is not as neccessary.

judging by ito's 60 ft times, he is a very experienced drag racer. i am kinda disappointed in thinking that my car will never run close to that fast, because i cannot really afford to do 8k clutch drops or redline power shifts.

however, on a brightner note, if judge ito claims he can hit 14.3 with a bone stock rx-8, whats to stop him from dipping into the 13's with canzoomers ecu mod and a full exhaust system? maybe with drag radials he can put down some 1/4 mile numbers that all rx-8 owners can be damn proud of. go ito!

Hey Judge :)

Can you either post here or PM me the tire pressure details (PSI, did you stagger the pressure, etc.), rpm at launch, clutch issues (did you dump at 7k, feather it a little/lot, etc.), rpm shift points, yada yada yada...

I'm taking mine to the World Cup race on 11/9 at Maryland International Raceway. I'll probably only get 2 or 3 practice runs before eliminations, so having the expertise of your trail and error would be great.

Lab Rat

Originally posted by syntrix
Actually, lowering to the same levels at 225hp produced the bese results at 340hp in the wrx.

Might want to experiment with that ito. Ask around the track, don't rely on internet messageboard advice ;) I don't rely on any message board advice. I rely on my many years of drag racing experience. The Rx8 with complete exhaust including a well built header a nice cold air intake system and increasing fuel a little bit more. with some drag radials the Rx8 will run 13.0 to 12.9 with a bone stock engine.

You like to speculate don't you Ito. Where are those slips and the mid 14 second runs on regular gas, I won't hold you to the 14.3 :p

Originally posted by IkeWRX
You like to speculate don't you Ito. Where are those slips and the mid 14 second runs on regular gas, I won't hold you to the 14.3 :p

Agreed ;) ;)

face it IKE, a few simple mods and an RX8 will smoke your subaru while looking better, handling better, and lasting longer.

You have no idea of how easy it is to get a WRX to run 13 second flat quarter mile times, do you?

Looking better? Personal taste. Someone somewhere likes the Aztek.
Handling better? Yeah, that one is true.
Lasting Longer? Viagra is not for cars.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
You like to speculate don't you Ito. Where are those slips and the mid 14 second runs on regular gas, I won't hold you to the 14.3 :p Me speculate? Not really, what you are reading is 16 years of rotary engine experience and hands on experience on your everyday Rx7. From the 1970 Rx's to your most common first generation,second gen. and third gen. Rx7's I not only Drag Race rotaries but I work on them every single day. I own a rotary performace shop in NJ and I could tell you that I have seen second gen. Rx7's with a dyno pull of 95rwhp bone stock and with some exhaust, intake, bigger secondary injectors and some more tweaks pulll a 162rwhp with a bone stock engine.
The Rx8 bone stock is pulling almost 200rwhp I know that after I upgrade the exhaust ECU cold air intake bigger 5&6 injectors Ill pull enough power to run that 13.0 to 12.9 with some drag radials on 16 inch wheels, with a bone stock engine.
On the 14.5 time slips Vosko has them in hand I'll have him post them.
One guy told me that I would not be able to pull no more then a 2.0 60 foot times . All I said was Ill proove you wrong and I did with my 1.9 60 foot times.

I personally appreciate and enjoy Judge Ito's insight, history and knowledge he is kind enough to post on this forum. I do not require run slips to trust his judgement and experience in his chosen area of expertise.

I never plan on running my RX-8 on a quarter mile track, but those who choose to, and prove the expansion and versatility of the RX-8 are only making my ownership of the RX-8 a greater experience.

This is a new car, its aftermarket parts availabilty will be slower due to being new and being a redesigned rotary as far as bolt on equipment goes. I also like to hear how he intends to eventually make all this come about. I trust his experience to be top notch. Unlike others whom we seem to be getting way to much opinion from, just based on one test drive with a salesman in the car, or two short test drives, I forget how the story goes.

MY point is, I trust and enjoy Judge Ito's input, damn the time slips. I want to hear more of what he has to say, but I feel his posts are limited due to constant harassment and snide remarks made on every posts.

Maybe an ongoing read only "Judge Ito's RX-8 1/4 mile racing experience" thread should be started by the forum.

Originally posted by Judge Ito
...

One guy told me that I would not be able to pull no more then a 2.0 60 foot times . All I said was Ill proove you wrong and I did with my 1.9 60 foot times.

I believe sub 2.0 with a good setup... why is that hard to believe?

Either way, this is the internet here, and slips going up would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not doubting your experience, that will probably help us all in the long run!

Keep up the good work, and scan those slips in to make people choke on their tongues!

Originally posted by syntrix
I believe sub 2.0 with a good setup... why is that hard to believe?

Either way, this is the internet here, and slips going up would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not doubting your experience, that will probably help us all in the long run!

Keep up the good work, and scan those slips in to make people choke on their tongues!


I feel the same way, I really don't doubt the runs but slips would be nice, that's pretty standard stuff for 1/4 mile forums. I hope you don't think I'm harassing you Ito as someone seems to think I am, just holding you to the same standard I would anyone else on any other car board. Someone runs 13s in a stock WRX I want to see slips, whether it's John Force or Joe Schmoe.

Ike

I highly doubt stock 13's, that's propaganda at it's best ;)

either way, we are all enthusiasts here, and would love to see some ttime slips.


I think this is the first time that IKE and I agreed on something ;)

Thats right Ike, this is the way you begin. Badger till he posts slips, then say it was a freak car, then you doubt that anyone could do it consistently, and keep trashing the thread. If you don't believe it, leave the thread.

Remember the statements about RX-8 not being able to compete in the BS class with the mighty S2000, then autocross results showed that it beat S2000's, and then you said it wouldn't happen consistently. All of your opinions are posted without proof, yet you spout them as fact, and people for some reason believe your unsubstantiated BS.

Go back to your other forums where slips are the norm, this forum doesn't have to fit your model. I think the content and format is just fine. Maybe theres a little classier group of people here that can just talk without constant proof. Its unfortunate that you have spent your whole life associating with people you don't trust.

no problem posting time slips. If it wasn't for the fact the I recently purchased a new home and I'm not set up correctly with my PC I would have posted them. My buddy Vosko has them and I specifically told him yesterday to post them up. I'll ask again today.
On all of my runs I bagged consistent 14's. I'll be testing tomorrow again. Ill keep bringing up to date information on my Rx8 as I modify it and go along with power increase.

yeah ito just called me. i have the timeslips. i'll take pix of the timeslips and post em up for you guys!

sorry i have been dealing with insurance companies about my other car and it totally slipped my mind woops

http://www.vosko.net/photos/timeslips/rx8/DSCF0012.JPG
http://www.vosko.net/photos/timeslips/rx8/DSCF0013.JPG

14.69 and 14.5 runs.........ENJOY!

Ya'll don't use the same car numbers?

Yes we do. the number of the car is 1613 which is the last 4 numbers of my shop.

Originally posted by syntrix
Ya'll don't use the same car numbers?

the rednecks at the track probably read it wrong.......;)

Originally posted by vosko
the rednecks at the track probably read it wrong.......;)

LOL, and why are they usually rednecks running the track?

Originally posted by syntrix
LOL, and why are they usually rednecks running the track?

because they own it ? this particular track is INBETWEEN FARMS.....if i get hungry i can go outside the track and steal some corn LOL

Or take a bite out of a mad cow? LOL

mmmm, beef! It's what's for dinner! hehe

ok i posted the slips now everyone is quiet hmmmmm funny

Originally posted by vosko
ok i posted the slips now everyone is quiet hmmmmm funny

Don't worry Ike will chime in sooner or later and say that this is a freak occurance. You must of been using rocket fuel or maybe you just strapped a rocket to the trunk because there is no way that a stock RX-8 can turn a time better than 30 seconds flat! LOL :p

Seriously though, nice job with the times and being able to back it up with time slips.

Originally posted by Speed Racer
Don't worry Ike will chime in sooner or later and say that this is a freak occurance. You must of been using rocket fuel or maybe you just strapped a rocket to the trunk because there is no way that a stock RX-8 can turn a time better than 30 seconds flat! LOL :p

Seriously though, nice job with the times and being able to back it up with time slips.

I never doubted the times, I just wanted to see slips, and I don't think I was alone. No, he wasn't using rocket fuel, it was race fuel :p

Or was it just 100 octane unleaded. Real race fuel is gonna kill your cats and O2's ;)

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I never doubted the times, I just wanted to see slips, and I don't think I was alone. No, he wasn't using rocket fuel, it was race fuel :p

Give it a rest Ike. Ito ran mid 14's in a car not designed for straightline performance.

i think a 14.5 is possible on regular 93 octane gas.... the one time he tried with 93 octane he got horrible wheel hop.... if i get a chance i'll try it with his car :D

Originally posted by renotse
Give it a rest Ike. Ito ran mid 14's in a car not designed for straightline performance.

So Mazda never wanted the RX-8 to be fast? I really don't get the point of your post, and I don't think I'm harping on anything that is deserving of a "rest".

Define "fast".

The shining star of the rX8 is the handling. Power is great in the car, but in some cases, there could be a bit more.

In fact, my RX8 was about 4 mph faster than my last gti in sweepers on the track.

In reference, my GTI was about 5 mph faster than my WRX on the same sweepers.

I guess WRX's are just slow... especially when the front tires are hopping coming out of a corner (open diff up front on a WRX).


Ike, shouldn't you email Mazda and ask them that quesiton? hehe.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
So Mazda never wanted the RX-8 to be fast? I really don't get the point of your post, and I don't think I'm harping on anything that is deserving of a "rest".

So you are saying a 15 sec quarter mile @ 90 mph is by no means fast enough? Is there fast enough?

i'd say the rx8 has enough power its not a powerhouse........its a n/a and its supposed to be very reliable. you don't need a ton of power to take corners fast.......ask anyone on a road course

Originally posted by syntrix
Define "fast".

The shining star of the rX8 is the handling. Power is great in the car, but in some cases, there could be a bit more.

In fact, my RX8 was about 4 mph faster than my last gti in sweepers on the track.

In reference, my GTI was about 5 mph faster than my WRX on the same sweepers.

I guess WRX's are just slow... especially when the front tires are hopping coming out of a corner (open diff up front on a WRX).


Ike, shouldn't you email Mazda and ask them that quesiton? hehe.

You're taking my statement a bit serious. I found it comical that Renotse said it wasn't designed for straightline performance in a thread about 1/4 miles, and also that you've jumped on the WRX bashing bandwagon. Saying bad things about the WRX really doesn't bother me, I thought you should know since you like many others have started bringing it up randomly to try to get a rise out of me.

RX-8 TX, I'm not sure if there is fast enough, I guess it all depends on what you're after :p

Not bashing or taking it too serious.

Just posting my findings on the track ;)

Really, you should email mazda, I'm curious to see if they would ignore it or give some crazy engineered answer :D

In case anyone missed it, Ito's tranny and motor went on his car. I guess don't try this at home would be a fitting caption. Sorry to hear about your troubles Ito, and I hope it ends up being a freak thing rather than a weakness in the Mazda parts.

Ike

How interesting....

Rikki just lost the tranny in his.

Originally posted by labrat1123
How interesting....

Rikki just lost the tranny in his.

Rikki was busted driving like a manic, slamming gears, doing burnouts, etc etc etc.....

Maybe.... but I was behind him when it went and he was doing NOTHING of the sort. Driving along at about 40+ mph in traffic when it grenaded and locked up the entire driveline.

I gave him props for keeping it straight and getting it off the road...

i drive mine like a crazy bitch and havent had one problem.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
In case anyone missed it, Ito's tranny and motor went on his car. I guess don't try this at home would be a fitting caption. Sorry to hear about your troubles Ito, and I hope it ends up being a freak thing rather than a weakness in the Mazda parts.

Ike

what are you talking about ? i talk to him nearly everyday! he never mentioned anything to me! his tranny/diff was making noise before he did anything. i will talk to him monday and let you guys know

RIKKI did blow his trans at the track.........

Originally posted by vosko
what are you talking about ? i talk to him nearly everyday! he never mentioned anything to me! his tranny/diff was making noise before he did anything. i will talk to him monday and let you guys know

RIKKI did blow his trans at the track.........

I'd be surprised as to what the techs found the blown diff as to the preload specs, or if it was lack of fluid.

at what rpm are you droping the cluch? I drop my between 3.5 to 4000rpm. Anything higher I'm just getting alot of wheel sping and a very bad 60 foot time.

He drops his at 8500 or 9000 thats the only way to get a decent time out of the 8.

Hello Vosko! Are u stock tire at the track?

Originally posted by vosko
what are you talking about ? i talk to him nearly everyday! he never mentioned anything to me! his tranny/diff was making noise before he did anything. i will talk to him monday and let you guys know

RIKKI did blow his trans at the track.........


http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14477

Seems sort of odd he wouldn't mention it to you if you talk to him every day... looks like it's already fixed.

Originally posted by zoomzooomp5
at what rpm are you droping the cluch? I drop my between 3.5 to 4000rpm. Anything higher I'm just getting alot of wheel sping and a very bad 60 foot time.


What kind of times are you getting, it seems like ages since anyone has put up some times. However I and many others have seen RX-8s at the track. There were 3 running at a track my friend went to in Florida.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14477

Seems sort of odd he wouldn't mention it to you if you talk to him every day... looks like it's already fixed.

it is possible he was so upset didn't even want to talk about it. i'd be extremely pissed........wow

Only got in two runs at the last day at our track here.

First was a 15.4 with a 2.2 60 foot.

Second was a 14.9 with a 2.4 60 foot.

Wheel spin was a m/f'er. Good burnout, only launched at 6k, feathered it, not dumped it. Still felt like I was standing still.

Car is completely stock... 6spd MT, Grand Touring Package, Nav, Appearance pkg, etc. Running on 93 octane with half a tank of gas. Didn't lower the tire pressure.

Air temp at the track was about 50 - 55 degrees, and the track was not holding much heat.

14.9 without max power RPM dump on a completely stock 8. This is good.

The 15.4 is awful though...

I went to the track on Saterday, at Carsbad raceway. My best time was 15.4 at 90.5mp. 60 ft was 2.340. I only drop at 3800. I'll try a higher drop next time out.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
What kind of times are you getting, it seems like ages since anyone has put up some times.

Originally posted by labrat1123
Second was a 14.9 with a 2.4 60 foot.

Wheel spin was a m/f'er. Good burnout, only launched at 6k, feathered it, not dumped it. Still felt like I was standing still.

Car is completely stock... 6spd MT, Grand Touring Package, Nav, Appearance pkg, etc. Running on 93 octane with half a tank of gas. Didn't lower the tire pressure.

Under 15 on bone stock rx8 and 93 octane.

Ike, I guess you can give it a rest now

Originally posted by renotse
Under 15 on bone stock rx8 and 93 octane.

Ike, I guess you can give it a rest now

First was a 15.4 with a 2.2 60 foot.

Second was a 14.9 with a 2.4 60 foot.

Something seems off, getting a better 60' yeilded a worse time? I'd like to see a time slip.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
First was a 15.4 with a 2.2 60 foot.

Second was a 14.9 with a 2.4 60 foot.

Something seems off, getting a better 60' yeilded a worse time? I'd like to see a time slip.


Is that you blue350????

maybe he missed a SHIFT, or got more wheelspin in the the first 60 ft before hooking, I don't know. Are you calling labrat a liar?

Originally posted by renotse
Under 15 on bone stock rx8 and 93 octane.

Ike, I guess you can give it a rest now


I've been saying all along I thought it was a high 14 second car (14.7-14.9) bone stock... What the hell are you talking about?

well nobody on here is saying its faster than a 14.5 second car so you're trying to tell me all the bickering is over .2 seconds? Yeah right.

RussellP = Renotse? By the way you are the ones stirring the pot and that think you have something to prove, maybe you need to give it a rest.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
RussellP = Renotse? By the way you are the ones stirring the pot and that think you have something to prove, maybe you need to give it a rest.

Ike you asked for more times to be posted well
Read It and Weep
14.9 BONE STOCK on 93 OCTANE

What is your argument now that the times are posted

I prove my point...

Jesus Christ some people are never happy....

On the left slip, I'm car 579 (tower must have read it wrong.) On the right, I'm 379 (correct number). No those times at the top are not typos.... 5 hours between 2 qualifying runs. That's how packed MIR was that day (not to mention the nice delay when the old school Chevelle ate the right wall at half track and actually moved the wall..prompting a visit from the tractor.)

I do agree with Ike (this will not be a habit) that it is puzzling that I went half a second faster with a worse 60 foot. Only difference I remember was I shifted at 9000 rpm on the second run instead of 9500.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/tpoole/files/rx8_timeslips.jpg

Originally posted by labrat1123
Jesus Christ some people are never happy....

On the left slip, I'm car 579 (tower must have read it wrong.) On the right, I'm 379 (correct number). No those times at the top are not typos.... 5 hours between 2 qualifying runs. That's how packed MIR was that day (not to mention the nice delay when the old school Chevelle at the right wall at half track and actually moved the wall..prompting a visit from the tractor.)

I do agree with Ike (this will not be a habit) that it is puzzling that I went half a second faster with a worse 60 foot. Only difference I remember was I shifted at 9000 rpm on the second run instead of 9500.

I never commented on your 60' times...

Originally posted by PoLaK
Ike, you better then anyone should understand that race gas does not make a car faster, it is more of a cheep solution to retard/accelerate a cars timing etc... You also more than anyone puts a whole lot of emphasis on "quarter mile" or "my car can ran this" and I thought you would finally be pacified by this tread and ignore spreading your conspiracy theories about Mazda lying to us. But instead you pick at little things like, it was race gas (your taking it to drag strip most of the cars there do), or not every car is built equal nonsense.



What PoLaK said! I thought you would finally be pacified by this tread and ignore spreading your conspiracy theories about Mazda lying to us. But instead you pick at little things

Originally posted by Judge Ito
Me personally knowing that the engine has higher compression rotors I did not want to detonate in the dyno. When I made my first dyno pull I checked igniton timing in the dyno making a 4 gear pull using 93 octane. Using a 2 CYCLE TIMING LIGHT. The ignition timing was over 30 degrees BTDC while we did the pull. Rx8 made 188rwhp after I saw that much timing advance under a load I changed to 103 octane and made a pull. Made 196.5 rwhp with the higher octance. I repeat timing was checked under a load and is over 30 degrees of timing advance.

I guess Polak knows more than an experienced rotary tuner in your view.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I guess Polak knows more than an experienced rotary tuner in your view.

This is what was pertinent in PoLaks quote

I thought you would finally be pacified by this tread and ignore spreading your conspiracy theories about Mazda lying to us. But instead you pick at little things

It is not only my opinion but the opinion of others that you exist on this board to discredit the RX8 in any way that you can.

My only theory was that the RX-8 didn't make the HP that was being advertised, hmmm who came out on top with that one?

Originally posted by IkeWRX
My only theory was that the RX-8 didn't make the HP that was being advertised, hmmm who came out on top with that one?

Just to prove you have no credibility and your purpose is just as I described. To discredit Mazda and the RX8 any way you can, Here is a couple more of your INSPIRED theories


Originally posted by IkeWRX
I think it's all going to end very badly for Mazda and the Rotary.
Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Agreed, lets close the thread and open it again in 5 years :p I do however think the engine issue is more than just first year problems that most cars experience. Besides we're just going to get a bunch of responses from RX-8 owners that have had their car a whopping 5k miles and haven't had any problems...

not to mention hes said millions of times that production 8's arent nearly as fast as the ones the magazines tested. Total B.S.

I don't know why some people are making a big deal out of the rx 8 not running consistent 14.5 quarter mile time. Befor I brought my car. I did a lot of reading about the rx8. Car and Driver, Motortrend and I can't remember the 3rd. Anyway, one magazine had it at 14.5 another at 14.6 and 14.7. My points is. 14.5 is not the gold stander for the 8. This is a mid to hight 14s car. If I am running 14.9 with my car I'm happy. Beside I do alot of auto crossing and quarter mile time don't mean squat. And that is where the strength of the rx8 is. Turning, braking. It is a very good balance car. And if you want to go fast . Sticke a turbo on it.

Originally posted by RussellP
not to mention hes said millions of times that production 8's arent nearly as fast as the ones the magazines tested. Total B.S.

How is that BS??

The majority are not coming anywhere near 14.5@96.. the best yet was a 14.6@92 with racing gas and power shifting on a car with above average dyno results.. 80%++ of everybody should be running 14.5 or near it, consumer reports just tested the RX8 and they ran a 15.2 1/4 and a 0-60 of 6.7 which is what the typical result IS. Get over it, its not a 14.5 1/4 car anymore, its a 15.0 car. Not a big deal, but stop being so blind to the truth!!

So flame away, this is the truth but most of you people rather live in a fantasy world, heck Mazda even told you the HP is not the same as pre-production, how the heck could they be as FAST with less HP???

Think of a bell curve (if you don't know what it is, i am not going to explain):

Take the magazine time as the top of the bell curve, or the median.. Most will fall in around the mag times, and fewer will run better and fewer will run worse the the average.. Does it seem like 14.5 would be the median? Since most are running around 15.0+??? Absolutlely not, 15.0 would be the middle ground and the 14.6 would be in the minority as would the 15.4 times..

Originally posted by Judge Ito
here is the runs.

R/T .358
60. 2.17
330. 6.07
1/8. 9.35
MPH 75.64
1000. 12.17
1/4. 14.57
MPH. 94.07


R/T. .455
60.1.98
330. 5.98
1/8. 9.29
MPH. 76.03
1000. 12..09
1/4. 14.66
MPH. 93.33
In this last run I missed the fourth gear shift really bad. to the point where the engine hit the rev limiter 2 times and still pulled a 14.6 I feel this run would have landed a 14.3 run. to be continue. My Rx8 is still bone stock.

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but can someone explains to me in some details what all these numbers mean? Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
How is that BS??

The majority are not coming anywhere near 14.5@96.. the best yet was a 14.6@92 with racing gas and power shifting on a car with above average dyno results.. 80%++ of everybody should be running 14.5 or near it, consumer reports just tested the RX8 and they ran a 15.2 1/4 and a 0-60 of 6.7 which is what the typical result IS. Get over it, its not a 14.5 1/4 car anymore, its a 15.0 car. Not a big deal, but stop being so blind to the truth!!

So flame away, this is the truth but most of you people rather live in a fantasy world, heck Mazda even told you the HP is not the same as pre-production, how the heck could they be as FAST with less HP???

Think of a bell curve (if you don't know what it is, i am not going to explain):

Take the magazine time as the top of the bell curve, or the median.. Most will fall in around the mag times, and fewer will run better and fewer will run worse the the average.. Does it seem like 14.5 would be the median? Since most are running around 15.0+??? Absolutlely not, 15.0 would be the middle ground and the 14.6 would be in the minority as would the 15.4 times.. It ran 14.5 with me in it, That same day I had a better run it the car but it didn't happened. Let drive and dial in every single Rx 8 and Ill garranty 14.5 runs or better bone stock.

you got 14.5 but you killed your car so it kinda discredits it

Originally posted by RussellP
you got 14.5 but you killed your car so it kinda discredits it Killed it? I would not say so. From the first day I drove the car home from the dealer the differential was humming. The next day I called the dealer and told them when I had time I'll drop it off. From the first day I bought the car the tranny was making a loud noise in neutral. When I took the car back to change parts,they changed parts that were making a louder noise then before. I feel the car is a bit to heavy for a massive launch thats involved in drag racing. The weight of the vehicle has an effect on the drivetrain components. Doesn't matter if the car fell apart the point here is that it ran the time and it has a faster time in it.

Originally posted by Judge Ito
It ran 14.5 with me in it, That same day I had a better run it the car but it didn't happened

Key word, "didn't happen"

. Let drive and dial in every single Rx 8 and Ill garranty 14.5 runs or better bone stock. [/B]

I would bet my bank account that they don't. You ran a 14.6 at only 94mph with lots of advantages and now your car is done for.. If it takes racing fuel, powershifting, a perfect launch and a 15 year veteran of drag racing to get within a tenth of what the mag ran and you can say that everybody can run a 14.5 bone stock is the stupidist thing I had ever heard and if you believe that I got a bridge to sell ya. People that will believe that are just too mindless to see the truth or just refuse to believe it.

I have personally seen quite a few RX8's at the track run between 15.0-15.5@90-92 mph, with 60 foot times between 2.0-2.3 and this is in perfect 45-50 degree conditions at sea level. And the key to this is the low MPH, no matter what the launch (unless its really really bad) the trap speed is a good indication of horsepower and ET potential and 92mph is not promising.

http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/nc/Crayon.gif

:cool:

Originally posted by labrat1123
Jesus Christ some people are never happy....

On the left slip, I'm car 579 (tower must have read it wrong.) On the right, I'm 379 (correct number). No those times at the top are not typos.... 5 hours between 2 qualifying runs. That's how packed MIR was that day (not to mention the nice delay when the old school Chevelle ate the right wall at half track and actually moved the wall..prompting a visit from the tractor.)

I do agree with Ike (this will not be a habit) that it is puzzling that I went half a second faster with a worse 60 foot. Only difference I remember was I shifted at 9000 rpm on the second run instead of 9500.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/tpoole/files/rx8_timeslips.jpg


14.986 rounds to 15.0, not 14.9. :)

the whole point of drag racing is being perfect.

some people are more perfect than others.

i ran a 15.1 in his rx8 my 2nd run ever in it with a horrible 60 FT ;)

Originally posted by revhappy
14.986 rounds to 15.0, not 14.9. :)

last time i checked they don't round off in drag racing :)

I dont even care about this but I just had to laugh.

So, you dont beleive the mag driver has 15 years experience, knows how to pw\ower shift and can squeeze the best time outta the car?

Must be little Jimmy, home from school who they give the cars to do the track testing on.

Is it just me or is this nitpicking just a bot over the top?

Originally posted by 350z Driver
Key word, "didn't happen"

I would bet my bank account that they don't. You ran a 14.6 at only 94mph with lots of advantages and now your car is done for.. If it takes racing fuel, powershifting, a perfect launch and a 15 year veteran of drag racing to get within a tenth of what the mag ran and you can say that everybody can run a 14.5 bone stock is the stupidist thing I had ever heard and if you believe that I got a bridge to sell ya. People that will believe that are just too mindless to see the truth or just refuse to believe it.

Originally posted by Genom
I dont even care about this but I just had to laugh.

So, you dont beleive the mag driver has 15 years experience, knows how to pw\ower shift and can squeeze the best time outta the car?

Must be little Jimmy, home from school who they give the cars to do the track testing on.

Is it just me or is this nitpicking just a bot over the top?

My first time ever drag racing I ran a 14.1@100.56 with a 2.3 60' in my Z. FIRST TIME and I did as good or better then the magazines. Why do you need to be a drag superstar with racing fuel to get a 14.6 in an RX8?

You people will never listen to reason, its sad. 90-94mph traps are not good, thats in the Celica GTS, RSX-S range. But its ok, maybe you will realize this when you have a hard time beating your average V6 sedan off the line, like that guy that said he couldn't overtake a solara from a light.

Its hopeless, none of you know enough about cars to realize this is a fact. And if anybody is in the Boston area wants line up with my friend's stock 2004 Pontiac GTP i'd love to set it up, he runs 15.0 Flat and my moneys on him.

quote:
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Originally posted by labrat1123
Jesus Christ some people are never happy....

On the left slip, I'm car 579 (tower must have read it wrong.) On the right, I'm 379 (correct number). No those times at the top are not typos.... 5 hours between 2 qualifying runs. That's how packed MIR was that day (not to mention the nice delay when the old school Chevelle ate the right wall at half track and actually moved the wall..prompting a visit from the tractor.)

I do agree with Ike (this will not be a habit) that it is puzzling that I went half a second faster with a worse 60 foot. Only difference I remember was I shifted at 9000 rpm on the second run instead of 9500.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




14.986 rounds to 15.0, not 14.9.


Hey. I was there that day. Cold a sh*t out in the stands. I watched you make the faster run.
Who was in the other RX-8 that made passes that day and what were his times?
Mine was safely parked in the show area. :p

Well you got one thing right. I dont know enough about this specific aspect of cars to say anything. But the reason for that is I just dont care!

Weee!

If yer buddy is ever here in Miami he can come race me all day and beat me too! Hell, you come one down and beat my pants off.

Everybody that dont have an 8, come to miami and beat my pants off racing. We'll make it a big event.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
My first time ever drag racing I ran a 14.1@100.56 with a 2.3 60' in my Z. FIRST TIME and I did as good or better then the magazines. Why do you need to be a drag superstar with racing fuel to get a 14.6 in an RX8?

You people will never listen to reason, its sad. 90-94mph traps are not good, thats in the Celica GTS, RSX-S range. But its ok, maybe you will realize this when you have a hard time beating your average V6 sedan off the line, like that guy that said he couldn't overtake a solara from a light.

Its hopeless, none of you know enough about cars to realize this is a fact. And if anybody is in the Boston area wants line up with my friend's stock 2004 Pontiac GTP i'd love to set it up, he runs 15.0 Flat and my moneys on him.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again.

I will have more fun getting beat in my RX-8, than anyone will have beating me in their 350Z.

Unlike most Z owners, I and most RX-8 owners were able to test drive the Z before purchasing and buying our 8's. Now some Z owners know they got hosed, and their buzzing around and hanging their hats on one little facet (raw speed), where the Z has an edge. Its a very common and predictable rationalization and compensation technique weak minds play on their owners. I was hoping that reality would set in, and they would learn to accept their decision and enjoy their nice cars. It appears there are a few that need more bashing down of others to pull them out of their depression.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
You people will never listen to reason, its sad.

I will listen to you. :)

I agree that a normal driver (like me) is hard (or impossible) to get the magazine time 14.5 for 1/4 mile.

8 has better chance to beat z on autox or roads w/ a lot of curves. Do you agree, 350z Driver?

Originally posted by donald121
I will listen to you. :)

I agree that a normal driver (like me) is hard (or impossible) to get the magazine time 14.5 for 1/4 mile.

8 has better chance to beat z on autox or roads w/ a lot of curves. Do you agree, 350z Driver?

Well I have seen quite a few lap times from Japan and the USA with pro drivers on several different race courses and the RX8's lap times were quite far behind the 350z. And the overall grip advantage the RX8 has over the 350z is so small its really not even a factor and in some cases the 350z measured higher G's then the RX8.

Don't get me wrong I am not bashing the RX8 at ALL, I really like them (with the exception of the low gas mileage and low power rating combo, low gas mileage is ok if you got 300+ HP). I deffinatly think that the RX8's interior is of a higher quality then my Z but IMO both are styled very nicly as far as in interior and i'm sure the RX8 is a more friendly everyday driver. But I am 25 and have owned nothing but sports cars right from my high school days so I couldn't care less about the ride or fitting 4 passangers, I have friends with cars to do driving if needed :)

Originally posted by 350z Driver
Key word, "didn't happen"



I would bet my bank account that they don't. You ran a 14.6 at only 94mph with lots of advantages and now your car is done for.. If it takes racing fuel, powershifting, a perfect launch and a 15 year veteran of drag racing to get within a tenth of what the mag ran and you can say that everybody can run a 14.5 bone stock is the stupidist thing I had ever heard and if you believe that I got a bridge to sell ya. People that will believe that are just too mindless to see the truth or just refuse to believe it.

I have personally seen quite a few RX8's at the track run between 15.0-15.5@90-92 mph, with 60 foot times between 2.0-2.3 and this is in perfect 45-50 degree conditions at sea level. And the key to this is the low MPH, no matter what the launch (unless its really really bad) the trap speed is a good indication of horsepower and ET potential and 92mph is not promising. dude I repeat my car ran 14.5 @ 94 mph and 14.6 with a 4th gear miss shift. and the car is back together running stronger.

time slips are posted in this thread look for them

350Z would be a fun car to drive if you didnt have to brake so hard on every turn. Its just not designed for curves. In a straightline its ok but gets whooped by the Evo, STi, S2K, even the dodge neon i think. The exterior i always thought was ugly, but its sorta grown on me. The inside sucks, the ride sucks, the price sucks, the handling is lame.....only advantage it has on the 8 is in a straight line where its far from the benchmark. Sucks to be a 350Z owner now that the 8 is out....

Originally posted by 350z Driver
Well I have seen quite a few lap times from Japan and the USA with pro drivers on several different race courses and the RX8's lap times were quite far behind the 350z. And the overall grip advantage the RX8 has over the 350z is so small its really not even a factor and in some cases the 350z measured higher G's then the RX8.

Well, I only saw z beat 8 on best motoring from japan and then 8 beat z on hot version vol 63 (both moded).

When did z beat 8 in US race courses? Are those race courses with a lot of curves? :)

P.S. I'm just curious, not trying to argue with you.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
Well I have seen quite a few lap times from Japan and the USA with pro drivers on several different race courses and the RX8's lap times were quite far behind the 350z. And the overall grip advantage the RX8 has over the 350z is so small its really not even a factor and in some cases the 350z measured higher G's then the RX8.

Don't get me wrong I am not bashing the RX8 at ALL, I really like them (with the exception of the low gas mileage and low power rating combo, low gas mileage is ok if you got 300+ HP). I deffinatly think that the RX8's interior is of a higher quality then my Z but IMO both are styled very nicly as far as in interior and i'm sure the RX8 is a more friendly everyday driver. But I am 25 and have owned nothing but sports cars right from my high school days so I couldn't care less about the ride or fitting 4 passangers, I have friends with cars to do driving if needed :)

350z Driver

I downloaded a Video here that featured the Z33 (modified 350z) and RX8 and a couple of others. The rx8 won inspite of producing slightly longer lap times than the z. In road racing lap times only count in qualifying ....The first one accross the finish line wins . The RX8 won. Do a search 350z Driver..... please check that video.

350Z driver, you can't have it both ways. First you tell us we can't use magazine 1/4 mile figures, then you quote magazine track races.

Go to any regional autox results page and you will see the RX-8 consistently beating times of the 350Z (when you can find a 350Z driver stupid enough to try and compete). 350Z's at autox have dried up, there were a lot two to three months ago, and they were no where close to competitive. You tell me where they all went. RX-8's are out there competing with everything in all stock classes.

I just joined a 350Z forum and I am about to start posting autox results with the z's getting their bumpers handed to them, consistently when they decide to run. Face it, you bought a single dimesional car in a multi-dimensional world. The only place you can compete is on the WWW.

handles like a dump truck in comparison to the 8. STi and evo are faster cheaper and outhandle the Z. Its actually the least worthwhile sports car between the 8, S2K, Evo, STi, Neon.

Originally posted by RussellP
handles like a dump truck in comparison to the 8. STi and evo are faster cheaper and outhandle the Z. Its actually the least worthwhile sports car between the 8, S2K, Evo, STi, Neon.

Sometimes I wonder if we aren't taking things a little bit too far.....anywasy: good night everyone!

i just like pushing buttons......he deserves it

Originally posted by RussellP
i just like pushing buttons......he deserves it

I know, but that's what I am saying: It's not necessarily the car that deserves the smacking....you know what I mean?

Trust me you cannot push my buttons, I know quite abit about racing and I know what I am talking about and some wacky comments about handling like a dump truck doesn't bother me, I think I may have to open the 350z flood gates after seeing that comment. And since I am on an rx8 forum I don't expect any of you to listen to anything I say because you people are in your rx8 fantasy world where you all think your car its the greatest thing to hit the road. But if you look on any other random forums the RX8 is treated as though it is a joke. Even the Crossfire people are bagging on your RX8.

The 350z gets respect on 90% of the forums, mostly because most other forums people have knowledge of cars and racing, no offense to this forum but 90% of this forum's makeup has no idea about cars or racing and just make random comments with no basis of facts.

I have seen comments like this on just about every forum..

"I went over to the RX8 forums and its such a joke, everybody whining about 1/4 times and nobody has a clue what they are talking about"

So no matter what you people say it doesn't bother me, because I know when people in other sports cars see me in my car they say "that thing is fast" not "that car is all looks and no go".

hello all... i just wanted to say that the rx-8 looks sweet, and i was really considering it... maybe the new rx-7:D im impressed to see these times (14.6) im glad someonewas able to put it into that range. i love the rotary engine and i know this one is much more reliable than the previous 13b and 20b. im excited to see what comes out for this car. keep on keepin on guys:D

350Z Driver, When they see your great Z on that rare occasion at Autox events, they are not saying that car is fast, they are laughing outloud at the Z cars inability to perform or compete.

What happens when you hit an ocean, how do you get it pointed back in the other direction.

I have attended some Autox events and watched everything on the pad beat 350Z's, so badly they just stop coming. They stay downtown in their element, running light to light, and on their forum talking about 100 yard kills.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
So no matter what you people say it doesn't bother me, because I know when people in other sports cars see me in my car they say "that thing is fast" not "that car is all looks and no go".

I know this comment doesn't belong to a quarter mile thread, but: didn't the Z get spanked in a Tsukuba battle by the 8. They both were tunned, although I doubt any had FI. I believe most of the tuning was done to suspension and exhaust system.

Shouldn't that result have been the other way around? (I mean, if the 8 is all show and no go)

Originally posted by 350z Driver
The 350z gets respect on 90% of the forums

And I believe you! However, as I've been saying, you give them a real bad name.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
90% of this forum's makeup has no idea about cars or racing and just make random comments with no basis of facts.


And you are on the other 10% ?? Didn't they ever call you a snob?

Originally posted by 350z Driver
"I went over to the RX8 forums and its such a joke, everybody whining about 1/4 times and nobody has a clue what they are talking about"

Wasn't that you?? Don't quote your own posts on other forums!!

Originally posted by 350z Driver
So no matter what you people say it doesn't bother me, because I know when people in other sports cars see me in my car they say "that thing is fast" not "that car is all looks and no go".

That 'thing' is fast?? absolutely. You car is fast, but regardless of what car you are driving: you are still who you are. No need to repeat it. You car is amazing, no questions about it. But you are what we call an AH. No car will ever change that.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
I think I may have to open the 350z flood gates after seeing that comment.

Was that a threat?

Originally posted by 350z Driver
you people are in your rx8 fantasy world where you all think your car its the greatest thing to hit the road.

And don't you think the same thing about yours (your car I mean!)?

Alright, Post Count, here we go!

Originally posted by RussellP
350Z would be a fun car to drive if you didnt have to brake so hard on every turn. Its just not designed for curves. In a straightline its ok but gets whooped by the Evo, STi, S2K, even the dodge neon i think. The exterior i always thought was ugly, but its sorta grown on me. The inside sucks, the ride sucks, the price sucks, the handling is lame.....only advantage it has on the 8 is in a straight line where its far from the benchmark. Sucks to be a 350Z owner now that the 8 is out....

Are you kidding? Most of what you say is your own conjecture... You've got some points with the Evo and STi, but that's it. Your other points are either misinformed stats (if you can call them that) or simple opinions that are shared by few. At this point, I'd rather be a 350Z owner any day, but I will await the release of the RX-7 before considering anything that Mazda currently has to offer.

well thats a post whore if ive ever seen one......

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
Now some Z owners know they got hosed, and their buzzing around and hanging their hats on one little facet (raw speed), where the Z has an edge.

Hosed on what? The Z is the one of the best priced sports cars on the market (sans all the amenities, which is in actuality really competitive). Why do you think that Z sales have skyrocketed? Because it's expensive?

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford


Go to any regional autox results page and you will see the RX-8 consistently beating times of the 350Z (when you can find a 350Z driver stupid enough to try and compete). 350Z's at autox have dried up, there were a lot two to three months ago, and they were no where close to competitive. You tell me where they all went. RX-8's are out there competing with everything in all stock classes.


i own a few cars... honda prelude si, audi S4, and nissan 350Z. by no means can my 350z compete with my audi (p.s. thats my favorite car:D ) and in fact i am contemplating trading in my Z. anyway you say the Z cant compete in autoX? here are some facts. automobile magazine tested the rx-8 at .90g right and .93g left. slalom of 70mph. the 350z tested in the same mag in the same article, .99g left .96g right. and slalom of 71mph. i frequently go autocrossing and i can assure you there are crappy drivers out there:D my frined has a 350z and i am ALWAYS beating him by at least 1 second, however i have racing experience. last time i went i beat a new m3, a 96 m3, and rx-8 and a 944 turbo. does this mean that my car is better? not necissarily.. those drivers could have sucked. my point is just because you beat someone on autocross doesnt mean you have a better car. i.e. the miatas that hand everyone their asses!! would you sell your rx-8 to buy one? i think not. im sure you encountered crappy drivers just as i have, but i dont like hearing people bash on cars. its immature to say the least. i have heard nothing but good thing about the rx-8 in handling, samwe with the Z. in every comparison they rated the Z better in hadling, they said it had a racier feel to it, and gave you more of an adrenaline rush. but i dont care, im still saying the rx-8 is awesome!!!! dont bash on cars, we are all car enthusiasts, so tuck in your E-wangs and bring forth facts, not subjective matter like personal opinion.

bobietoucher69 wrote:
"in every comparison they rated the Z better in hadling, they said it had a racier feel to it, and gave you more of an adrenaline rush. but i dont care,"

That is a bold faced lie, most comparisons that I have read give handling, hands down to the 8. Do a search, there are numerous thread on comparisons by the mags and very few give any handling edge to the Z, much less ALL.

You would think with the right driver that anything could compete at Autox, and with the great handling Z you would think that it might even give a bad driver an edge. IT DOESN"T COMPETE WITH AN EXPERIENCED OR BAD DRIVER!!! REAL LIFE, NOT MAGS.

bobietoucher69, If you don't like bashing others cars, than you too should hate 350Z driver (and other Z dicks), and the trash they are talking on an RX-8 forum. MY whole point is there is alot of bad that can be said about the Z, but are we going to their forum and telling them about it. NO, because what I see as a detriment to the Z, the Z owners might see as a positive, and vica versa. The RX-8 site is about driving, not killing.

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/nationals/2003/results/groups/bs.html

350z takes 6th at SCCA cone dodging nationals. What happened to the lone RX-8?

http://www.grandamerican.com/race_results/view_final111.html

The only 350z's in GS-II take 5th and 6th at Grand American.

http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_racing/runoffs/03results/files/gt2finalrace.pdf

350z takes 1st in GT-2 at Valvoline Runoffs.

http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_racing/runoffs/03results/files/t2finalrace.pdf

350z takes 3rd in T-2 at Valvoline Runoffs.

So much for handling like a dump truck.

For all you North Texas yokels, I'm going to be at Motorsports Ranch on Dec 6-7 for the Driver's Edge ( http://www.thedriversedge.net ) DE. They're running the course clockwise so it oughta be new to even me. Come on out.

Michael.

automobile magazine gave it to the Z.. anyway thats not the point. you bashed the Z, i didnt bash the 8

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
bobietoucher69 wrote:


You would think with the right driver that anything could compete at Autox, and with the great handling Z you would think that it might even give a bad driver an edge. IT DOESN"T COMPETE WITH AN EXPERIENCED OR BAD DRIVER!!! REAL LIFE, NOT MAGS.

how do you figure? im telling you i beat one. i beat a lot of cars with my Z, maybe some people do bad with it because it has some serious power to the rear wheels, and they cant handle it? i dont know, anyway iom telling you that i haven placed below 2nd in ANY autocross events i have gone to.



bobietoucher69, If you don't like bashing others cars, than you too should hate 350Z driver (and other Z dicks), and the trash they are talking on an RX-8 forum. MY whole point is there is alot of bad that can be said about the Z, but are we going to their forum and telling them about it. NO, because what I see as a detriment to the Z, the Z owners might see as a positive, and vica versa. The RX-8 site is about driving, not killing.

your right i dont like even the 350z dicks who trash talk. but dont step down to their level and talk badly about the Z.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
And since I am on an rx8 forum I don't expect any of you to listen to anything I say because you people are in your rx8 fantasy world where you all think your car its the greatest thing to hit the road. But if you look on any other random forums the RX8 is treated as though it is a joke. Even the Crossfire people are bagging on your RX8.

The 350z gets respect on 90% of the forums, mostly because most other forums people have knowledge of cars and racing, no offense to this forum but 90% of this forum's makeup has no idea about cars or racing and just make random comments with no basis of facts.

I totally respect 350z. My best friend got 350z and sometimes we switch car to drive, so I know what I'm talking about. I think you are trying to say z can win 8 in every catagory, but I don't agree on that. At least I think 8 can beat z in autox. I'm saying that by referring scca autox results. I did look on other forums. They all said 8 is slow in straight room acceleration, but they all respect the great handling of 8. So, 350z driver, test drive 8 and make some shape corners, you will find the difference. ;)

P.S. Both 8 and Z are beautiful cars.

Originally posted by RX8-TX
Was that a threat?

Nope, a promise...

agreed donald 121. i dont have a friend that owns one but i have test driven it. along with the sti and evo. i like the rx-8 dont get me wrong, i just dont think it can take the z in autox. granted the Z should be able to take it by much, but i think with equal drivers it should be close. granted you could be good driver and go against an average driver in a Z and win. but this holds no meaning for the car itself, i mean i beat an STI in autocross!! but so did the mini , miatas, civic , golfs, bmws, and evos. he was 1 second slower than my friend with a bone stock civic! do i think that the sti cant handle? no. i just think he was a bad driver. in handkling aspect the Z and 8 are very close, i think it would be a drivers race. btw i just saw a charcoal rx8 and it looked sweet!

My bad boobietoucher69, I failed to realize that you do not capitalize any proper nouns. So when you said automobile magazine, I thought you meant in general, not Automobile Magazine. I have not read that compo, but it is rare. Very few comparisons that I have seen, give the Z better handling or better overall car when comparing the two head to head.

Don't believe all that you read, the Dodge Crossfire, in its own leaflet compared the 6 speed Crossfire to the Auto RX-8, just to have a few catagories to show Crossfire superiority.

I hope your girlfriends name ain't weeniemauler. How insensitive of me, you could be a women. :) :eek:

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
My bad boobietoucher69, I failed to realize that you do not capitalize any proper nouns. So when you said automobile magazine, I thought you meant in general, not Automobile Magazine. I have not read that compo, but it is rare. Very few comparisons that I have seen, give the Z better handling or better overall car when comparing the two head to head.
haha i didnt even realise i did that. im sorry



I hope your girlfriends name ain't weeniemauler. How insensitive of me, you could be a women. :) :eek:

LOL:D hahahahaha. no im not a women, although i guess there are certain parts of the day that i am "trapped" in a womans body... lol sorry for those who i will offend with that comment. LOL

boobietoucher69: So Prelude, Audi, and 350Z wasn't working, so now you try Porn Star (or Gynocologist)? OK you win, I am now jealous....... of you job, not your cars.

LOL. yeah the 350z might be leaving, i was thinking new m3? i dont know. it pisses me off to not have a backseat. 911 turbo is my first choice.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
Nope, a promise...

You are so mean...

Originally posted by donald121
I totally respect 350z....

P.S. Both 8 and Z are beautiful cars.

Hi, first post. You guys have generated some interest on a Z forum with all the comparisons between the Z and the 8.

First, nice time Judge Ito.

Second, donald121, your forum needs more people who view things like you do. I agree, both the 8 and Z are beautiful cars and both deserve a lot of respect for what they are. I saw a nice 8 this morning on a canyon road, she looks really good.

Originally posted by hfm
Hi, first post. You guys have generated some interest on a Z forum with all the comparisons between the Z and the 8.

First, nice time Judge Ito.

Second, donald121, your forum needs more people who view things like you do. I agree, both the 8 and Z are beautiful cars and both deserve a lot of respect for what they are. I saw a nice 8 this morning on a canyon road, she looks really good.

Alright, this is the kind of people that makes forums such as ClubRSX, S2KInternation, and G35Driver pleasant. No need to bash, except maybe for a joke...and everything settles within seconds. Welcome!

****Moderator Edit*****

Did JudgeIto ever run his car at the track again?

Originally posted by rebelzx
Did JudgeIto ever run his car at the track again? Yes I did, and on both times I tried to launch harder but couldn't get a smooth 60 foot times. The rear end of the Rx8 almost fell apart. I decided to brace the rear end then try again. Right now we are having a very cold winter and the local drag strips are closed.

I can't believe that I read this whole post. I think many people have lost sight of what the arguement is about. It's not that the RX8 sucks or is slow. It's that the magazines stated that the RX8 CAN run the 1/4 mile on PUMP GAS in 14.5 seconds. Now what 350z and Ike are stating is that most magazine times can be dupicated by average-above average drivers and what we are seeing is that it's taking race gas and a top notch driver to hit the magazine number.

Also, the trap speed indicates that the RX8 is much lower than 238 hp. To hit mid-14's the RX8 should be trapping in the mid-upper 90's, not lower 90's. Here's my estimate of the horsepower of the RX8 based on a similar car with similar times.

RSX-S hp=200
RSX-S weight = 2778
#/hp = 13.89

RX8 hp=?
RX8 weight=3029
#/hp = 13.89

RX8 hp = 218 hp

Argh.... Find me where a Magazine says they run on 93 octane while doing performance testing... btw i was pretty sure 103oct is pump gas its just found at fewer stations?....

100 octane can be had at a few specialty pumps for those willing to pay for it.

this is a funny thread. There have been decent 1/4 mile times posted yet there are still some that claim cover-up theories on HP?? Oh well. About the theory about trap speeds etc. There have been guys getting good times with-out race gas, so the car will pull pretty good numbers. But your theory about real HP etc etc. fair enough, you can have an opinion. But it is an estimate at best based on no real proof or hard facts.

Consumer reports just tested the RX8, 350z, Sti and Evo

RX8:
1/4 = 15.2
0-60 = 6.7

350z:
1/4 = 14.0
0-60 = 5.3

Sti:
1/4 = 13.4
0-60 = 4.8

Don't remeber the Evo at this moment.. And all the people that are holding on to the numbers (5.9 0-60 and 14.5 1/4) in Car and Driver with a PRE-PRODUCTION RX-8 producing 250HP should forget about it, since that test no mag has tested the RX8 anywhere near those numebrs with a production one.

And a somebody getting a 14.6 with racing fuel, powershifting and years of experience doesn't even count. My best in my Z so far with just an intake was a 13.9@100.86mph with only 4k miles, the best STOCK RX8 I have seen a slip for was 14.8x@93.xx. The low traps are a tell all that its putting down quite a bit less then 238hp.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
....somebody getting a 14.6 with racing fuel, powershifting and years of experience doesn't even count.

Can I believe in what Judge Ito mentioned: In a car with such low torque, mistakes are highly paid...(or somthing like that for this matter) ??

Originally posted by RX8-TX
Can I believe in what Judge Ito mentioned: In a car with such low torque, mistakes are highly paid...(or somthing like that for this matter) ??

Judge Ito huh..

What about what Johnny Cochran said, if the glove don't fit, you must acquit...(or somthing like that for this matter)

90% of all car reviewers who extensively test these cars on tracks all say that the rx8 is better than the 350, evo and sti despite less horsepower and torque.

Originally posted by RussellP
90% of all car reviewers who extensively test these cars on tracks all say that the rx8 is better than the 350, evo and sti despite less horsepower and torque.

Oh yeah...where did you ever hear that? I would love to see this poll. Sounds like 90% of these reviewers were from Uranus.

Now I can believe the RX8 better than the 350z and STi (maybe) but I have a hard time swallowing that it's a better track car than the EVO. The RX8 might have an edge through the slalom but everything else goes in favor to the EVO. It has better seats, better brakes, better traction, much more power, better steering, more forgiving drivetrain...but we're way off topic.

The topic at hand is 1/4 mile times for the RX8. Now if you would like to further debate the RX8 vs. the EVO let's open a new thread. I would love to see all these reviews that have compared the RX8 to the EVO because I haven't seen one yet.

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat
Oh yeah...where did you ever hear that? I would love to see this poll. Sounds like 90% of these reviewers were from Uranus.

Now I can believe the RX8 better than the 350z and STi (maybe) but I have a hard time swallowing that it's a better track car than the EVO. The RX8 might have an edge through the slalom but everything else goes in favor to the EVO. It has better seats, better brakes, better traction, much more power, better steering, more forgiving drivetrain...but we're way off topic.

The topic at hand is 1/4 mile times for the RX8. Now if you would like to further debate the RX8 vs. the EVO let's open a new thread. I would love to see all these reviews that have compared the RX8 to the EVO because I haven't seen one yet.

Actually, the RX8's slalom test results were around 65 MPH while the EVO's were around 69 MPH (Road and Track). Consumer Reports did review the RX8 and EVO along with a few cars and the RX8 did slightly beat it out (both were rated in the highest section - "Excellent"), but of course many things besides performance are measured by them.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
Judge Ito huh..

What about what Johnny Cochran said, if the glove don't fit, you must acquit...(or somthing like that for this matter)

Whatever will make you happy!

Originally posted by 350z Driver
Consumer reports just tested the RX8, 350z, Sti and Evo

RX8:
1/4 = 15.2
0-60 = 6.7

350z:
1/4 = 14.0
0-60 = 5.3

Sti:
1/4 = 13.4
0-60 = 4.8

Don't remeber the Evo at this moment.. And all the people that are holding on to the numbers (5.9 0-60 and 14.5 1/4) in Car and Driver with a PRE-PRODUCTION RX-8 producing 250HP should forget about it, since that test no mag has tested the RX8 anywhere near those numebrs with a production one.

And a somebody getting a 14.6 with racing fuel, powershifting and years of experience doesn't even count. My best in my Z so far with just an intake was a 13.9@100.86mph with only 4k miles, the best STOCK RX8 I have seen a slip for was 14.8x@93.xx. The low traps are a tell all that its putting down quite a bit less then 238hp.

I've been a long time reader of CR, and although I generally value thier results highly, thier test times appear to more reflect gearing and redlines of the cars. I don't have the article in front of me but look at thier 45-65 times! The time posted for the 8 is so wrong! I'm sure that they don't go past where the red stripes are at on the tach. IIRW the 8's time was somewhere like 4.5 seconds. Please if I'm going 45 in second gear and stomp on it, it does not take any where near 4.5 seconds. It makes me wonder if they shift early on all gears and were in third gear at 60? By shifting early I mean not at the chime.

Originally posted by red_rx8_red_int
I've been a long time reader of CR, and although I generally value thier results highly, thier test times appear to more reflect gearing and redlines of the cars. I don't have the article in front of me but look at thier 45-65 times! The time posted for the 8 is so wrong! I'm sure that they don't go past where the red stripes are at on the tach. IIRW the 8's time was somewhere like 4.5 seconds. Please if I'm going 45 in second gear and stomp on it, it does not take any where near 4.5 seconds. It makes me wonder if they shift early on all gears and were in third gear at 60? By shifting early I mean not at the chime.

If you been such a long time reader you would know that 45-65 and 65-85 and so on are tests to show low\mid range power (or torque) so they are performed in top gear or sometimes in the 1:1 gear, thats why they are called "top gear acceleration tests".

Also no magazine takes the cars past redline or shifts below it, all shifts are completed at the redline, thats the standard in road testing.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
If you been such a long time reader you would know that 45-65 and 65-85 and so on are tests to show low\mid range power (or torque) so they are performed in top gear or sometimes in the 1:1 gear, thats why they are called "top gear acceleration tests".

Also no magazine takes the cars past redline or shifts below it, all shifts are completed at the redline, thats the standard in road testing.

I don't read car magazines, so I'll take your word for C&D, R&T, etc. tests regarding 45-65 acceleration. But, from reading CR for over 20 years, I thought thier goal was to guage passing ability, which would typically be done in the best gear.

As far as redlines go, I believe that non-rev limited cars are tested as you describe. But the 8 IS rev limited and the manual does not say "don't drive in redline", rather it says something similar to "extended driving in the red zone may shorten engine life". The mag that got the best times clearly came as close as they could to the rev limiter. As an aside, different engine/gear combinations sometimes provide the best results using shift points other than max rpm, i.e., the dynos of different gears will cross over at some point, so shifts are not always done at the redline . In the 8, best results are acheived at max rpm, and I don't think CR does all shifts at the redline.

I got the latest version of CR today and they've changed the numbers for the 8. TO get the new results, go to thier home page, click on auto, then click on the book ad, the link to the corrected data is near the bottom of the page. They list 4.9 sec. for 45-65. I haven't looked at the original numbers yet.

Originally posted by red_rx8_red_int
They list 4.9 sec. for 45-65. I haven't looked at the original numbers yet.

The origional 45-65 was 4.7

Originally posted by 350z Driver
The origional 45-65 was 4.7

Maybe this is a little bit out of context but, getting from 45-65mph on a passing or merging situation in real traffic and driving normally would be from 3rd~4th gear?? (depending on driving habits), and I can assure you that there is no way in heaven that the acceleration up there is unacceptable or 'sluggish.' Obviously I haven't timed it, and I have no accurate measurement resources. However, if 4.9 seconds is what it takes to accelerate that much on a properly driven RX, it is (again) by no means slow in my book.

Having the 45-65 done on a high gear is like Popeye without his spinach, or in this case: a rotary trying to accelerate from 2K rpms! on a roll w/o a turbo (ha!). You know what I am saying?

Certain cars have particular characteristics. The method might be useful for comparisson purposes, but by no means what they are doing is indicative of high-end performance. Am I making any sense here?

So, if you drive it, drive it properly!

For not liking magazine racing, some people use it quite a bit when talking about the RX-8. I agree with RX8-TX, testing the RX-8 from 45 to 65 in high gear, is like testing reverse on a jet aircraft.

Going from 45 to 65 in the RX-8 is from 5800 RPM to 9000 RPM in second gear, and it happens in about 2 second or less. There is not a car mentioned on this thread (in any gear they select) that will beat an RX-8 (in second gear) from 45 to 65........ This is the fun zone in an RX-8, I do this test 10 times a day.

350z driver, put down your magazine and tell me what gear (or two gears), and what RPM gets you from 45 to 65 the fastest in your car. Nuf Said.

Heres a more precise update, 2nd gear 45 MPH 6100 to 6200 RPM, 65 MPH 8800 RPM in second gear, in approximately 2.5 seconds.

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
For not liking magazine racing, some people use it quite a bit when talking about the RX-8. I agree with RX8-TX, testing the RX-8 from 45 to 65 in high gear, is like testing reverse on a jet aircraft.

Going from 45 to 65 in the RX-8 is from 5800 RPM to 9000 RPM in second gear, and it happens in about 2 second or less. There is not a car mentioned on this thread (in any gear they select) that will beat an RX-8 (in second gear) from 45 to 65........ This is the fun zone in an RX-8, I do this test 10 times a day.

350z driver, put down your magazine and tell me what gear (or two gears), and what RPM gets you from 45 to 65 the fastest in your car. Nuf Said.

Wanna race me on a 65 MPH limit highway? :D

Ravhappy challenged: "Wanna race me on a 65 MPH limit highway? "

Living on the edge as I do, how about a 55 MPH limit highway, or large church parking lot with speed bumps? :eek:

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
Ravhappy challenged: "Wanna race me on a 65 MPH limit highway? "

Living on the edge as I do, how about a 55 MPH limit highway, or large church parking lot with speed bumps? :eek:

Sure, why not!:D

Originally posted by RX8-TX
Maybe this is a little bit out of context but, getting from 45-65mph on a passing or merging situation in real traffic and driving normally would be from 3rd~4th gear?? (depending on driving habits), and I can assure you that there is no way in heaven that the acceleration up there is unacceptable or 'sluggish.' Obviously I haven't timed it, and I have no accurate measurement resources. However, if 4.9 seconds is what it takes to accelerate that much on a properly driven RX, it is (again) by no means slow in my book.

Having the 45-65 done on a high gear is like Popeye without his spinach, or in this case: a rotary trying to accelerate from 2K rpms! on a roll w/o a turbo (ha!). You know what I am saying?

Certain cars have particular characteristics. The method might be useful for comparisson purposes, but by no means what they are doing is indicative of high-end performance. Am I making any sense here?


You make very little sense, the purpose of the test is to show torque. Thats all, and yes a car with low torque NEEDS to downshift in that situation.. THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE TEST! GET IT? Somebody driving a low torque car would have to downshift to pass or to accelerate hard Vs. say when a car with twice the available torque wouldn't really need to.

And this one is a real classic...

Originally posted by RX8-TX
There is not a car mentioned on this thread (in any gear they select) that will beat an RX-8 (in second gear) from 45 to 65........

That is very funny if you are serious.. Do you think because it feels fast to you going from 45-65 that means that its faster then a 350z or any other car going from 45-65 in best gear? Man, that is the "I know nothing about cars" statement of the week and i'm sure alot of people would agree.

Thanks for the chuckle

Originally posted by 350z Driver

That is very funny if you are serious.. Do you think because it feels fast to you going from 45-65 that means that its faster then a 350z or any other car going from 45-65 in best gear? Man, that is the "I know nothing about cars" statement of the week.

Thanks for the chuckle

Enlighten us then. Tell us what the 350z can do in best gear 45-65. The 2.5 sounds right, but I'll try to time it myself. Either way, 350 faster than 8 or 8 faster, the 4.9 reported by CR is still way off. If it's true they test in 6th gear then it's a useless test for me. I never drive 45 in 6th.

Also I found my December 03 issue of CR and the 45-65 time is the same 4.9 listed in the revised list. BTW, so are the 0-60 times and the quarter-mile sec time. I think the corrections refer to the numbers published in the book, not the Dec issue.

Wow this site is full of people that know nothing about cars, no offense, its just a fact..

How could a car thats runs around 15.0 at 92-93 MPH in the 1/4 be faster at ANY speed then a 14.0 car that traps 100-101 with nearly identical gearing??

Also the 350z has nearly 2 times the torque to the wheels and 50-60 more HP to the wheels then the RX8. I am not going to guess times because thats crazy. The point is the RX8 and the 350z have near identical gearing in those gears.. I can hit 62 in 2nd gear and would have to shift before I hit 65, i'm sure its the same as the RX8 requiring a shift before 65mph.

Its so funny reading stuff from people that know very little about cars, torque, horsepower, gearing, power-to-weight ratios and watching them try to rationalize things based on no facts other then the ones they make up in thier heads. Keep the nonesense coming!

And once again you fail to comprehend the purpose of the 45-65 test, please re-read my last post until you understand, thanks!

I agree with you 350Z! Your car will win all the time, unless it comes down to a bad driver, or there's other mods involved ;)

Even in the corners, out of the box for each car, the 350Z will do better. Period!

But for a car with 1/2 the torque, the RX8 is not that far behind!!

14.5 is not a bad time, but there is still plenty of room for improvement in our RX8's!

Originally posted by syntrix
I agree with you 350Z! Your car will win all the time, unless it comes down to a bad driver, or there's other mods involved ;)

Even in the corners, out of the box for each car, the 350Z will do better. Period!

But for a car with 1/2 the torque, the RX8 is not that far behind!!

14.5 is not a bad time, but there is still plenty of room for improvement in our RX8's!


I agree :D Unless the racing course looks like the pic below, then 8 has little bit of advantage. Could someone please end this thread? :D

in Top gear a post production model RX-8 tied a 350 and an M3 on a track. I dont know why everybody ignored this and looks down upon their own rx-8s. Its better on turns then a 350.

I do think that we have move beyond the usefulness of the original topic here.

If we have other comments on legalized racing, let's start a new topic.

I'll leave this sticky, as it's the best time we have seen so far ;)

Thread closed and Judge Ito's user ID were locked at his request. No rules were broken, we did it out of respect for his wishes. End of topic.