Just wanting to know how hard it is to make 400whp in the 8. I have not purchased one yet due to the fact that I don't know a whole lot about rotory. I am very fimiliar with the S2K and the 350z and know they both can make 400whp pretty easy. I don't like the 350z due to its 3200lbs+ and the S2K is a convertible, and I'm not a fan of drop tops, and lets just face it the RX-8 is just sexy and more practical in everyday driving. My main question is what needs to be upgraded to make this kind of power, if anything. If someone has already done this could you point me in the right direction with the cost, reliability, ect... Thanks

its a lot more difficult to make 400 whp than it is to search

ain't happening, buddy. look elsewhere.

not to bust your bubble on the 8 ( its a great car) but 400 at the wheels, consider your bubble popped. 300 is a way more attainable # but thats still gon to take some cosiderable spending. but i will say this car with 300 or so would be an absolute blast.

http://www.mazsport.net/shop/index.php?action=category&id=33

Mazport is claiming they have a 400whp kit.

It has the potential for 400 whp. That potential is thus far untapped. 400 whp is attainable in this car, but you'll need to solve some issues with the spark coils having the spark blown out around 330 whp. Cooling will also be an issue An S2000 will need a full rebuild before it will make a reliable 400 whp. The 350Z will have issues at that power level after a while too without a rebuild.

Anything is possible with enough money. Send us your car with a blank check, we'll get you 400rwhp.

RX7 engine is your only chance.

the end answer, it is very difficult to make 400 whp

money isn't a problem, i will save by making my own products, i was just wondering if anyone had done it and what kinds of problems they ran into and what not. i have rx7.com not to far from me so i would just have them tune it.

oh and 350z's and s2k's make 400whp reliably all the time, i've built them both and they still run great on stock motors.

Expect ~$10K for 330 hp and a lot more to make more.

make your own 3 rotor engine and turbo it. easy 400hp.

or just swap in a 3 rotor engine from a cosmo.

if money isnt really an issue.

Scott at Mazsport told me he got 374 whp out of an 8 already, he's got 600 whp out of RX-7s before too, so I would think that if you can write a check you could get 400 whp out of an 8 if Scott is you tuner and mechanic.

EDIT: This post is not related to the one directly above ^
Edited the original statement to reflect my opinion more accurately, as well.

Latest turbo kits that are out now are capable of producing 400 on the Renny, but none have done it yet. Whatever MazSport have or haven't accomplished (in regards of the 400 WHP figure) is based entirely on rumors, questionable and can be considered to be nothing more but a speculation, until there are dyno prints that prove it, or them making it a public announcement.
To push 400s, at a minimum you would need to upgrade the fuel system and the ignition. To this day there are no ignition upgrades that can support these 400WHP, at least none that have been proven to work there.

The engine itself seems well capable to do the numbers without any major mods, but no one knows for how long.

I personally had tried to see what are the limits there, and in the past month or so intentionally pushed the car as far as I could Boost wise, and found that it just begins to misfire at 14 PSI and above (which is probably around 320-350 WHP depending on the charge temperature and overall conditions).

it's not THAT easy to make 400whp from s2k, but it's possible, yes.

for the 8, you might wanna check out mazsport.net for there turbo kits. three that provide up to 400whp, but you've gotta have some 'deep pockets' for that.

the z is only 2-300lbs heavier than the 8 but sports four seats. but to have four seats and a lot of power, you might as well buy an evo or sti.

you're smart enough to have come here first, than to have bought the 8 and bitch like the many other people that have done so since it's hard to get power out of the renesis without going FI.

be a pioneer and figure it out.. then post and sell ;p

Whatever MazSport have or haven't accomplished is questionable and can be considered to be nothing more but a speculation, until there are dyno prints that prove it.
They are the last people that need to prove anything to anyone so I'm not sure why you are saying their results are nothing more than speculation. Just because you personally haven't seen their dyno numbers doesn't mean they don't exist or the rest of us haven't seen any of them. I assure you they've topped 370 rwhp.

Whatever MazSport have or haven't accomplished is questionable and can be considered to be nothing more but a speculation, until there are dyno prints that prove it.

This coming from a garage mechanic should be laughed at. With the reputation Scott has, if he said he has done it, he has.

They are the last people that need to prove anything to anyone so I'm not sure why you are saying their results are nothing more than speculation. Just because you personally haven't seen their dyno numbers doesn't mean they don't exist or the rest of us haven't seen any of them. I assure you they've topped 370 rwhp.

RG
I wasn't talking about MazSports 370 number. I was talking in general about a 400 WHP (which I am not even sure they ever claimed publicly) I remember them saying that it is capable of it, but can't recall seeing anywhere that they actually did that.

It just so happened that the previous post came before I posted mine, so it looks like I am questioning Mazsport. By any means, I do not. And I apologize if it came out sounding this way.

This coming from a garage mechanic should be laughed at. With the reputation Scott has, if he said he has done it, he has.

Mac,
How the hell the place where I do my mods has to do with anything? :banghead:

RG
I wasn't talking about MazSports 370 number. I was talking in general about a 400 WHP (which I am not even sure they ever claimed publicly) I remember them saying that it is capable of it, but can't recall seeing anywhere that they actually did that.

It just so happened that the previous post came before I posted mine, so it looks like I am questioning Mazsport. By any means, I do not. And I apologize if it came out sounding this way.



Mac,
How the hell the place where I do my mods has to do with anything? :banghead:

He has a reputation that precedes him. You do not.

He has a reputation that precedes him. You do not.

... and that explains that my efforts should be laughed at exactly how?
But then again, why did i even bother asking? I should have known that you'd just start mumbling.

... and that explains that my efforts should be laughed at exactly how?
But then again, why did i even bother asking? I should have known that you'd just start mumbling.

I didn't laugh at your efforts. I said your statement, in questioning Scott, should be laughed at. I really think you are twisting words just for the sake of argument.

I didn't laugh at your efforts. I said your statement, in questioning Scott, should be laughed at. I really think you are twisting words just for the sake of argument.

Never mind

This pretty much sums it up...

Anything is possible with enough money.

It can be done, it's just not affordable and reliable, yet.

+1

Expect ~$10K for 330 hp and a lot more to make more.

Thats funny, I plan on getting there for less than half of that... tell me I cant do it, it will just make it that much more of a victory when I do :) Inginuity and know how can save you a lot of money!

With enough money 400whp is attainable, there was a guy down in PuertoRico who was running just over 400whp for about 6 months till he decided he wanted morepower and went for a 20B build. From what Im told, once you cross the 400whp mark youre gunna have to startworrying about the differential, and possibly even the E-Shaft. Not to mention upgrade fuel and ignition, cooling, and one hell of a turbo.

Like everyone says, it can be done if your pockets are deep enough and if youre brave enough. 350whp is a much more reasonable goal which can be made without too much fuss, and if you ask me, its plenty of power for this car. Past that you can start going on a diet to make up for the last 50 horses.

Past that you can start going on a diet to make up for the last 50 horses.

I think the way I picked out some parts you could drop 50lbs+ of rotating and/or unsprung weight. Thats a TON of weight in those areas and you don't lose any of the conveniences or features of the car.

I think it's funny how many people here think 400-rwhp ISN't possible. Of course it is, but it will take a lot of money.

Scott has hit over 370-rwhp, and I have it on a good source that's true. Scott WILL hit 400-rwhp soon. He's obviously not going to go public with it yet until he has the products he's going to offer to back it up.

To the OP: The RX-8 is a still new car with not nearly the aftermarket support of the S2000 or 350Z. Tuners are affraid of the Renesis rotary engine, and it hasn't been since recently we've gotten more people offering new stuff to make power. The ingition system is currently what is holding people back right now to 340-rwhp, and no one makes any viable ingition upgrades (save for a set of $650 Okada "Plasma" coils that haven't proven anything yet and a $500 HKS ingition amplifer that hasn't proven anything yet either). And you can't just dump aftermarket ignition coils in, like MSDs, because of the Renesis' unique crank angle sensor (among others) and uber-bitchy PCM.

But it WILL be figured out soon enough. I remember when people started tuning new FD's, and the power "cap" kept rising every year as people figured more stuff out and the aftermarket helped more. I think it will be the same for this car.

And I know you claimed to build 400-rwhp reliable 350Z's, but anything more than 450 and you might want to replace those paper mache connecting rods and do a whole engine rebuild for a lot of money.

And also, don't underestimate a 350-rwhp RX-8, in a car this light with handling this awesome, it will impress the hell out of you.

RG
I wasn't talking about MazSports 370 number. I was talking in general about a 400 WHP (which I am not even sure they ever claimed publicly) I remember them saying that it is capable of it, but can't recall seeing anywhere that they actually did that.

It just so happened that the previous post came before I posted mine, so it looks like I am questioning Mazsport. By any means, I do not. And I apologize if it came out sounding this way.



Mac,
How the hell the place where I do my mods has to do with anything? :banghead:

Mazsport does claim it publicly.
http://www.mazsport.net/shop/index.php?action=category&id=33

Past that you can start going on a diet to make up for the last 50 horses.

Yes I joined jenny craig and am doing Tae Bo. If that doesn't help there is always gastric bypass.lolol

Mazsport does claim it publicly.
http://www.mazsport.net/shop/index.php?action=category&id=33

No it does not.
it says that the kit is good for up to 400. This means that the components included with the kit have enough capasity in them to provide for 400WHP.

Nowhere it says that RX8 equipped with the kit will put down 400WHP.

Unless someone comes up with an adequate ignition system, this number will not be reached no matter how big a turbo, fuel system and intercooler you may strap on the 8.

:)
obtainable

The 8 is a great car. If high hp is your goal, give it a few years or have deep pockets. But power is slowly coming up due to the effort of Scott at Mazsport. The z has the parts and fan base but its quite expensive to reach its potential too. S2k has potential to make alot too but it too is expensive and like the 8, is fairly maxed out from the factory. You will be paying for a few hp per mod unless you go with forced induction. Its possible but as with most things, you must pay to play.

:)
obtainable

I am not saying it is not.
Just not without the adequate spark.

Wow didn't think this would turn into an argument, but whatever. Thanks for everyones advise. I'm not wanting to do a motor swap, If the 8 hasn't made 400 yet I know it will. I'm not a rotary expert by any means but have talked with many that are, they are saying it can be done its just not very reliable yet.

Someone said if i want a 4 door get an evo or sti. I have an Evo 9 MR its all great and what not but way to plain. Mitsubishi isn't all that great of a company anyways, I have had nothing but problems with it so i just decided to build it from the ground up. Good to go now, I just want a new project to work on.

I'm not writing a check to anyone to do this for me. It's not hard to build a turbo kit. No reason for me to pay 3000-8000 for a kit when i can build one for half that price. I'm just wondering whats going to go wrong but I got my answers so thanks again for all your advise.

I'm not writing a check to anyone to do this for me. It's not hard to build a turbo kit. No reason for me to pay 3000-8000 for a kit when i can build one for half that price. I'm just wondering whats going to go wrong but I got my answers so thanks again for all your advise.

Rotorocks knows all about that :) Ill be in that boat soon.

No matter how you cut it, unless you go all EBAY parts, youre gunna spend at least $3k turbocharging this car, even if you do all the work yourself. An INT-X alone is $1500... and youre looking at another $2k worth of parts on top of that at least.

Go for it though, its been done and can be done again!

Rotorocks knows all about that :) Ill be in that boat soon.

thanks man for the word. I am far from knowing all about it. Just a fraction, but that is the great thing about this forum, when you ask a well defined question that, good people will always help with the answer. Some answers are great ad to the point, some are useless, but you sort through it, get what you need, ten go and do it and gain a point to your own experience

there's a new turbo that can get it. esmeril.
http://www.esmerilracing.com/9.html

not sure about the reliability at that whp, but it'll get there. question is, why?

Yes potentially it can, no without the ignition upgrade it won't.
he problem here is no the turbo system, it is the fact that the stock coils can not provide strong enough pulse to properly ignite the mixture at the levels of around 350ish and above.

Okada coils & HKS DLS II ignition amplifier ?

Okada coils & HKS DLS II ignition amplifier ?

:dunno:

:dunno:

have you not been paying attention?

have you not been paying attention?

Oh Ive been paying attention.
Just not to you :lol2:


No one has REALLY tried them yet have they? Therefore :dunno:
But, if you know something why don't you just share it with us instead of hopelessly trying to pick on me. What is your problem anyway?

This pretty much sums it up...



It can be done, it's just not affordable and reliable, yet.

Yup, give us enough money and we will have 7.5:1 rotors cast and you'll see more power than most rx-7 guys can dream of.

Is it me or is this forum just one big bitch fest.

Yup, give us enough money and we will have 7.5:1 rotors cast and you'll see more power than most rx-7 guys can dream of.

Now much money? Realistically

Is it me or is this forum just one big bitch fest.

Depending on the way you look at it ;)

Yup, give us enough money and we will have 7.5:1 rotors cast and you'll see more power than most rx-7 guys can dream of.

Is it me or is this forum just one big bitch fest.

bitch fest or stupid fest.. hard call..

beers :beer:

No it does not.
it says that the kit is good for up to 400. This means that the components included with the kit have enough capasity in them to provide for 400WHP.

Nowhere it says that RX8 equipped with the kit will put down 400WHP.

Unless someone comes up with an adequate ignition system, this number will not be reached no matter how big a turbo, fuel system and intercooler you may strap on the 8.

Direct from the web site:

Turbo Kit, Type 1 - $7995.00

MAZSPORT'S "Type 1" Turbo Kit is designed to produce up to 400rwhp for the 04-07 Mazda RX8.

Which means if I buy the kit I should be able to ask for the 400hp. It was what it was designed to produce. If not change the verbage. It is very misleading. May produce might be better.

To make 400rwhp or not to make 400rwhp that is the ?

Yup, give us enough money and we will have 7.5:1 rotors cast and you'll see more power than most rx-7 guys can dream of.

Is it me or is this forum just one big bitch fest.

That would be sweet. And yes it seems to get that way from time to time.

the z is only 2-300lbs heavier than the 8 but sports four seats. but to have four seats and a lot of power, you might as well buy an evo or sti.



Umm no.. The Infiniti G35 Coupe has 4 seats.. The Z only has 2. (bleow)

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/07/350z/image/4.jpg

no to add to an argument but i agree with everyone else, if scott says it, its true! He does very beautiful things with rotary engines! From my perspective, he is one of the best in the nation for rotaries and I have heard others say the same. Scott told me himself, 374, so of course its true! There is no doubt that with him installing and tuning his kits, you will get what the ad says . . up to 400 whp. Just depends on when you stop spending!

I totally agree with you. He is one of the top tuners bar none. Producing 374Rwhp is amazing at this point in time for a Reni engine. Not to many people can claim those numbers.

The whole point is the kit has a description which states for that price 400rwhp is attainable. Not needing deeper pocket to get to the 400rwhp.

Maybe it should be cahnged to 370 rwhp.

As an average consumer that would be what I would expect.

When I purchased my S/C from Pettit all the information stated 265 rwhp and that was also what they told me. I got 267 rwhp minor difference but if I would have gotten 260rwhp it was still close.

For the amount of money invested the difference between 400rwhp and 374rwhp is large. At least thats my opinion.

^^ now you're splitting hairs.....+/- 10%...bah humbug :)

Even to hit 370 WHP on the stock ignition, you'd have to tune awfully lean and agressive. Not the kind of a tune Id want to ride my car to and from work in 100F day. 12.2AF or close to that on mine and at 14 psi it starts acting up. I don't have the balls to go any leaner at that pressure. What pressure did Scott run I wonder to hit that #

PS.
I am not trying to discredit Mazsport, but I am curious. I wouldn't be surprised to find that Scott had something else up his sleeve to help him get that spark zapping.

I'm curious too about spark issues and what not. ^^^

They are the last people that need to prove anything to anyone so I'm not sure why you are saying their results are nothing more than speculation. Just because you personally haven't seen their dyno numbers doesn't mean they don't exist or the rest of us haven't seen any of them. I assure you they've topped 370 rwhp.

This coming from a garage mechanic should be laughed at. With the reputation Scott has, if he said he has done it, he has.
__________________
Quit acting like a guru. You are not.

--------------------------------------------------------
Why does everyone kiss Mazsport butt? They are a company just the same as all the others. Sorry to break it to you guys but if you make claims you gotta have proof. Not too many people spends thousands on promises. I don't doubt they made 374 but like the others have said it was probably on a tune that you wouldnt drive to work on.


Give me a break if you say something and you are asking a lot of money of course you have to have proof before someone hands over 10 g's are you guys nutz??

All these kits say capable of up to 400+ whp, and there is the new Esmeril kit that says the same stuff for $6500 so you don't have to spend over $10,000 and they also break it down for you and let you know that you can't make more than 340 hp until their ignition system is done. Some kits like the mazsport do use a couple of nicer parts like their exhaust manifold, but all have same numbers. They all need an ignition upgrade.

i dunno about the tune, i do know that 99% of what mazsport has done has been on conservative tunes; the specifics on the level of boost and a/f i don't have.

I am a mazsport tuned 8, running only 9.5 psi of boost on a smaller (larger cfm than greddy turbo) garrett, and I got 270ish to the rear wheels, very conservative tune too. So all the turbo gurus do the math, but i would think with the larger turbos in the mazsport kits, the bigger injectors, the fuel pump, more boost, yea you got the hp way up there.

I am a mazsport junkie now though, haha.

i dunno about the tune, i do know that 99% of what mazsport has done has been on conservative tunes; the specifics on the level of boost and a/f i don't have.

I am a mazsport tuned 8, running only 9.5 psi of boost on a smaller (larger cfm than greddy turbo) garrett, and I got 270ish to the rear wheels, very conservative tune too. So all the turbo gurus do the math, but i would think with the larger turbos in the mazsport kits, the bigger injectors, the fuel pump, more boost, yea you got the hp way up there.

I am a mazsport junkie now though, haha.

Good for you man.
But you put down 270ish on conservative tune which is Mazsports 374 (More than 100% of what you put down over stock) - 100. HUGE difference.

20b will get you there. But need lots of cash

yea but my point was that if I am putting down that much on a conservative tune and much smaller turbo than the kits, there is no doubt with more cfm, more boost and more fuel .. .400

--------------------------------------------------------
Why does everyone kiss Mazsport butt? They are a company just the same as all the others. Sorry to break it to you guys but if you make claims you gotta have proof. Not too many people spends thousands on promises. I don't doubt they made 374 but like the others have said it was probably on a tune that you wouldnt drive to work on.


Give me a break if you say something and you are asking a lot of money of course you have to have proof before someone hands over 10 g's are you guys nutz??

All these kits say capable of up to 400+ whp, and there is the new Esmeril kit that says the same stuff for $6500 so you don't have to spend over $10,000 and they also break it down for you and let you know that you can't make more than 340 hp until their ignition system is done. Some kits like the mazsport do use a couple of nicer parts like their exhaust manifold, but all have same numbers. They all need an ignition upgrade.

Claiming that Scott/Mazsport is reputable and his word is good is not "kiss Mazsport Butt" it is the reputation that shop has gained within our community. Many have found Scott/Mazsport to have high integrity. That kind of business sense gets rewarded with a strong following.

money+rx-8 = 400 whp obtainable, somehow

money+rx-8 = 400 whp obtainable, somehow

YES!

This coming from a garage mechanic should be laughed at. With the reputation Scott has, if he said he has done it, he has.
__________________
Quit acting like a guru. You are not.


Who are you to say anything negative about me?

If anyone has hit 370 rwhp (and they have), then there is already a 400 hp Renesis out there. Factory rates in crank power. Aftermarket measures at the wheels. Big difference. 370 rwhp is over 400 crank.

^That is true actually.

By the way, RG, I think you got confused with the messages. The "garage mechanic" is the messed up quote over quote directed to me by my good buddy mac11 :lol2: Rocketman1976 is just not into Mazsport too much (for whatever his reasons are).

Claiming that Scott/Mazsport is reputable and his word is good is not "kiss Mazsport Butt" it is the reputation that shop has gained within our community. Many have found Scott/Mazsport to have high integrity. That kind of business sense gets rewarded with a strong following.


OK having a good repution is very good and a tough thing to earn. But for the people who aren't his/their good friend, neighbor or have not used his/their services in the past, wouldn't it be nice to have a demonstration of a product, some sort of proof of something to make future customers feel safer in purchasing a product? If these were cheap investments then you can take your chances on what someone else says, but on a large investment which also involves risking another large one (the motor of the car itself) its nice to have proof, not promises.

Who are you to say anything negative about me?

Yeah that part your talking about with the "This coming from a garage mechanic should be laughed at. With the reputation Scott has, if he said he has done it, he has.
__________________
Quit acting like a guru. You are not"

that was supposed to be a quote from some other guy, it wasn't directed towards you. I was directing my statement towards him and you. was supposed to be double quote.

I was just stating how too many people say mazsport doesn't need dyno results, everyone selling any expensive performance parts should supply dyno results. The only time I can see not having dyno results is for a drop in filter or something on small scale like that.

OK cool. I was a bit confused and was wondering what I did to make you mad.

See I made the headline 400whp not 400hp. I understand 370whp is over or somewhere close too 400hp. I want 400whp. Which I'm going to be working on cuz i just ordered an RX-8 in that pearl white color. Yay!!!!

See I made the headline 400whp not 400hp. I understand 370whp is over or somewhere close too 400hp. I want 400whp. Which I'm going to be working on cuz i just ordered an RX-8 in that pearl white color. Yay!!!!

Very nice color choice, congrats! After you discover 400+ rwhp be sure to sell it as a kit! You got the 6 speed manual trans right?

Oh I will. And yes there is no other way to go than manual.

Oh I will. And yes there is no other way to go than manual.


I was saying that because there is a 5 speed manual I've heard of and it has the 4 port low revving motor.

so money wize how much are u looking at for 400whp

so money wize how much are u looking at for 400whp

Esmiril is the only one to post up 400+ numbers yet, though i know a couple others have well surpassed that also.

if you JUST want to make that number then look up esmiril on here.

if you want to make that number and make it driveable and reliable, you need to do a LOT of research and be prepared to spend a lot more than esmirils kit will cost you.

big bump btw... interesting to read what times have changed :P especially now that mazsport is in a shithole, there are multiple ignition solutions, and renny is totally capable or proved 400+ numbers :)

Scott at Mazsport told me he got 374 whp out of an 8 already, he's got 600 whp out of RX-7s before too, so I would think that if you can write a check you could get 400 whp out of an 8 if Scott is you tuner and mechanic.

Marko at Forcefed Racing Langley B.C. Canada 700-800+hp 3 rortors mind you.

Were going to squeeze 400hp out of mine. Seals, ported, and pinned. Being worked on as we speak.

I know you have probably heard this before, but there are some crazy ass puertorricans claiming more whp than 400 on a reny... man those PR people..Oh Shit, Im one of them, hahaha

Follow this thread:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=159170