here is the dyno sheet. if any of you want to verify because it came out HORRIBLE from bullish racing's printer. i guess they are too running 6 second quartermiles lol. you can call them if you doubt the sheet is real :)

http://www.vosko.net/photos/dyno/rx8dyno/DSCF0001.JPG

its about time what did u do to stop the ecu for intervering and making it go in sfe mode after 6200rpm

we broke it in with a GIANT BURNOUT

nothing else

vosko,

does Ito have a wideband or access to one? wondering if the ECU is running the car rich; hence loss HP and poor mileage.

HedgeHog

bullish racing has a wideband but he didn't use it. no need since he wasn't tuning

that looks good to me

Just waiting for Ikewrx to jump in with something negative to say now ;) Nice looking dyno though ;)

Looks great thanks for posting. I would suggest that you scan the page and/or make the readings clearer on the chart. You don't HAVE to PROVE anythign but it would be nice for the eyes on the form. THanks also for the movie in the other thread.

the print out is horrible and i don't have a scanner here sorry

i'm on my way to the drag strip right now to drive this car 14's ahoy!

Good luck with the runs.

Go run some nice 14's and silence all the nay sayers.:)

So this is the only RX8 in the country that can be dynoed?

Originally posted by vosko
we broke it in with a GIANT BURNOUT

nothing else

To be clear as a recap, the top two graphs were on race gas correct?

I didn't read all of that other closed thread, but I believe this was IKE's contention. Good race gas (high energy density more than just octane rating) should give you 5% or so more horsepower.

Thanks for the graphs,

-Mr. Wigggles

188 was regular 93 octane

other two had 103 octane mixed in with the 93

only 687 views goddamn

I've seen dyno sheets here from 180 to 196 now. I saw 180 from a borla exhaust modified 8 and 196 from "race gas". I saw 191 from a stock 8 in the California owners forum. Why the wide difference in "numbers" which appearantly is only bothering me. I understand the differences if the fuel is different and the exhaust is different but why would the borla dyno be lower than a stock one later on? What gives? If the 'experts' on the site can't seem to get accurate readings from the dyno why is it such a big deal that Mazda didn't either. Somebody explain it to me? Atleast when Mazda screws up they admit it and give me something for wasting my time. Starting to seriously doubt the experts on this site. Seems like more know it alls than actual experts around here. :confused:

just to update u guys. someone in cali got their car dynoed, horsepower was 191

http://www.virtualstream.net/image/rx8/rx8dyno01_result.jpg

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9608&pagenumber=2

Hmmm could it be possible some RX-8's made it through to the states without being reflashed? Because those last two dyno's seem to blow the "Can't dyno the car due to the computer sensing something wrong with the front wheels?" theory.

With these last two dyno's now, it puts the car right on the mark for the 238 HP claim with 18% drivetrain loss.

http://yarchive.net/car/dyno_accuracy.html

plus you need to factor in the weather

mike

So ignoring the race gas dynos, with 93octane, we have a 188 and 191whp. Hopefully with more breakin time, it'll go up by another 5-10whp. I still expect a 238HP car to get closer to 200whp when fully broken in. All the S2K friends I have have dynos that hit 200-205whp. So hopefully the Renesis still has a little loosening up to do before showing full power.

But now that the dynos are getting closer to expected, what about that discussion about the RX8 being un-dynoable? Is that now bunk? Or are some actually underrated now with the spec drop?

it will have an issue on the dyno if you don't fully disable the traction control. the ecu doesn't like seeing the rear wheels going 100MPH and front ones going zero :)

Hey guys, been on the east coast and just now getting power restored in my area. I think people need to realize that dynos tend to have variance in how they read as will cars from all manufacturers. Also, as Mike pointed out weather is a factor as well. Did anyone ever dig up the info on the old dynos to see what type of gas they were running. I think it's looking more and more likely that the RX-8 was tuned to run on higher than 91 octane gas, and it would not be the first car to be this way. The STis are running horribly on 91 octane and the new V6 accord is making up to 10 more HP on dynos with higher octane gas, I'm sure there are other examples out there. Hopefully Mazda is working on a reflash (if that is the problem) and Mazda will get this whole thing straightened out and maybe even have a different map for the people stuck with 91 octane.


When are you taking the car to the strip Vosco, and will you guys be using race gas or a lower octane?


Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Hey guys, been on the east coast and just now getting power restored in my area. I think people need to realize that dynos tend to have variance in how they read as will cars from all manufacturers. Also, as Mike pointed out weather is a factor as well. Did anyone ever dig up the info on the old dynos to see what type of gas they were running. I think it's looking more and more likely that the RX-8 was tuned to run on higher than 91 octane gas, and it would not be the first car to be this way. The STis are running horribly on 91 octane and the new V6 accord is making up to 10 more HP on dynos with higher octane gas, I'm sure there are other examples out there. Hopefully Mazda is working on a reflash (if that is the problem) and Mazda will get this whole thing straightened out and maybe even have a different map for the people stuck with 91 octane.


When are you taking the car to the strip Vosco, and will you guys be using race gas or a lower octane?


Ike

i did yesterday. ran 93 octane and full street strim with traction control OFF. i got two runs. first run 15.49 @ 91mph with endless wheel spin. 9.2k rpm clutch dump on launch 60 FT 2.5. 2nd run slipped it at 9k rpm then dumped it. same effect but lots of spinning but faster time. 15.21 @ 91.8 mph with 2.36 60ft . the car has alot better in it. i was just getting used to the car. if i drive it again i should be much closer to the 14.99 territory ;)

Did Ito run the car as well, and if so what were his times?


Ike

Didn't some of the megazines test the launch using a 7k or 8k clutch dump? I wonder if it would make a difference.

C&D did an 8k clutch dump. C&D also most likely have an excellent and controlled track/surface to run on unlike most of the dragstrips we will be going to.

ito ran 15.2 also but with dsc half on. he had a better 60 FT of 2.2 though... i was shifting mad quick yo!

Originally posted by vosko


i did yesterday. ran 93 octane and full street strim with traction control OFF. i got two runs. first run 15.49 @ 91mph with endless wheel spin. 9.2k rpm clutch dump on launch 60 FT 2.5. 2nd run slipped it at 9k rpm then dumped it. same effect but lots of spinning but faster time. 15.21 @ 91.8 mph with 2.36 60ft . the car has alot better in it. i was just getting used to the car. if i drive it again i should be much closer to the 14.99 territory ;)


From what I have always read or been told, your trapspeed is an indication of WHP even if you don't get traction at launch. And that wheelspin at launch will usually result in even a higher trapspeed in the end. Is this correct? If so, then 91-92MPH trapspeeds seem kinda low to me and would tend to support that the car isn't making the HP even 'in the wild' in addition to on the dyno.

Originally posted by nk_Rx8



From what I have always read or been told, your trapspeed is an indication of WHP even if you don't get traction at launch. And that wheelspin at launch will usually result in even a higher trapspeed in the end. Is this correct? If so, then 91-92MPH trapspeeds seem kinda low to me and would tend to support that the car isn't making the HP even 'in the wild' in addition to on the dyno.

That's true, often more wheel spin will result in a lower ET but a higher trap, and there is a corespondence with trap speed and WHP.

Road&Track test data

_____________ 0 - 1/4 mile ____ Power ___ Weight ___ P/W

Acura RSX
Type-S ____ 15.2s @ 92.7mph __ 200 hp ___2750 lb ___0.073


http://www.clubrsx.com

A production RX-8’s quarter mile trap speed is similar to a RSX Type-S.

Both cars have high-rev NA engine and manual transmission.

They probably have the same power-to-weight ratio.


0.073 x 3000 = 219 hp (estimated power of RX-8)

just little something to play around with if you're bored


http://www.mazdamaniac.com/q_mile_calculator?

Originally posted by Supercharger
A production RX-8’s quarter mile trap speed is similar to a RSX Type-S.

Apples to apples, please. If you wish to quote Road&Track performance test results, then please do so for BOTH vehicles. To compare R&T results for one vehicle and private results for the other vehicle is meaningless. Alternately, you could find a RSX Type-S that ran the same day at the same track as this RX-8 and compare that run...

For someone who loves to quote statistics, you can do a much better job than that.

Regards,
Gordon

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10493&pagenumber=3

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


Apples to apples, please. If you wish to quote Road&Track performance test results, then please do so for BOTH vehicles. To compare R&T results for one vehicle and private results for the other vehicle is meaningless. Alternately, you could find a RSX Type-S that ran the same day at the same track as this RX-8 and compare that run...

For someone who loves to quote statistics, you can do a much better job than that.

Regards,
Gordon

Well the RSX Type-S is running low 15's in real life and in the mag times, the RX8 is not coming anywhere near the mag numbers ( on average 0.7 seconds off), so IMO it is apples to apples since real life numbers mean more and both are running low 15's. Also quite a few RSX Type-S cars are cracking into the 14's stock, most RSX's are also trapping closer to 94mph also.


GORDON:
I know your just trying to defend your car, but EVERYBODY knows that the production RX8's are not coming anywhere near the mag times, so what would be the point of quoting them???

350,
why did you come back
You said you were done here

Originally posted by mikeb
350,
why did you come back
You said you were done here

I bet you wish there was nobody here to make factual posts so everybody can post all kinds of nonsense and it will be a happy little forum full of fantasy times and opinions. There will always be outsiders, on the 350z forum there are 17k members and LOTS of V8 american car owners chime in all the time, there are a few conflicts but we live in peace, this is how all GOOD forums are.

I read all kinds of forums, and if I feel the need to jump into a topic for a reason, I do. Somebody runs a 15.2 1/4 with a 2.3 60' and says they can run a 14.5 with a better launch, i'll be there. I just present neutral facts and I am not bashing or putting anybody or anything down, if you don't like me popping my head in now and then, too bad.

Originally posted by Blue 350z
GORDON:
I know your just trying to defend your car, but EVERYBODY knows that the production RX8's are not coming anywhere near the mag times, so what would be the point of quoting them???

In your absence, you've obviously missed the time slips and GTechPro results posted with RX-8s running mid-14s, with a best run reported of 14.0@101. Put a good driver in a broken in RX-8 with DSC off, and they are getting the 14s the mags reported.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


In your absence, you've obviously missed the time slips and GTechPro results posted with RX-8s running mid-14s, with a best run reported of 14.0@101. Put a good driver in a broken in RX-8 with DSC off, and they are getting the 14s the mags reported.

Regards,
Gordon


They must be hiding because I never saw them either, show me these "slips" and GTechPros are fun little toys that can give you an idea of things but in the end the results mean very little.

Ike

GTech's are known for consistency; accuracy they are not. As for breaking into the 14's, I dont doubt that the rx8 can. Similar to alot of hondas tho I'm sure it takes a clutch-punishing launch to pull it off.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


In your absence, you've obviously missed the time slips and GTechPro results posted with RX-8s running mid-14s, with a best run reported of 14.0@101. Put a good driver in a broken in RX-8 with DSC off, and they are getting the 14s the mags reported.

Regards,
Gordon

The 8 can do it with 4 people in the car comfortably though :)

Acura RSX Type-S trap speeds:

http://forums.clubrsx.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=90

A haiku befitting the situation:

Blue Three-Fifty Z
You said you were gone for good
A pity you're back

Or:

Three-fifty Z Fan
You own a different car
Take a big chill pill

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


In your absence, you've obviously missed the time slips and GTechPro results posted with RX-8s running mid-14s, with a best run reported of 14.0@101. Put a good driver in a broken in RX-8 with DSC off, and they are getting the 14s the mags reported.

Regards,
Gordon

This seems very believable since everybody is running 15.2-15.3@90-92mph

Why can't people just accept the fact that the RX8 is a low 15 second car?? Its a fact!! You are not going to get mid-low 14's with 180rwhp on a 3000LB car! Sure there may be some freak ones that run slightly better, as with any car. But its a low 15 second car, PEROID.

I have seen it with my own eyes at the track, 1 guy could not break 15.4@91 all day, the other car had a best of 15.3@91.5 on another day in ideal weather conditions, dry, low 60's.

You can make all the excuses you want, breaking it in, launching, weather conditions, fast shifting etc..

THE RX8 ON AVERAGE WILL BE RUNNING 15.1-15.4@90-92MPH. DEAL WITH IT. SOME MAY BE SLIGHTLY FASTER, SOME WILL BE SLIGHTLY SLOWER.

Its not like the RX8 is slow, nothing to be ashamed of, its just running on average .7 slower ET's then was expected due to Mazda basically selling the cars missing 25-30rwhp. Don't be mad at me, be mad at Mazda, they are to blame. I am just bringing facts to the table.

Don't knock the guy for pointing out facts. Why's everyone gotta be so harsh? We're judging people just because of the car they drive now? That's a little shallow, don't you think?

The truth is, the GTechPro isn't an actual 1/4 mile run. The tool might be handy for comparing before and after mods to see what kind of performance gain you get comparitively.. but the timeslips are estimated.

Originally posted by Tresch
Don't knock the guy for pointing out facts. Why's everyone gotta be so harsh? We're judging people just because of the car they drive now? That's a little shallow, don't you think?

The truth is, the GTechPro isn't an actual 1/4 mile run. The tool might be handy for comparing before and after mods to see what kind of performance gain you get comparitively.. but the timeslips are estimated.

I agrre with 350z, the RX8 is a low 15 sec car. (at least most are) Thats not too bad.
Regarding the Gtech, I HAVE ONE, and have tested it extensively in several cars so i wont repeat words heard somewhere else just my own experience.
In some cars I have found the Gtech times very close to the times obtained at the drag strip (of course both under similar weather conditions), in other cars for some reason I have found up to .5-.7 second discrepancies, on the low side meaning that on the drag strip timing it was more than a half second slower than what the gtech said. 1/4 mile MPH in all cases was too optimistic on the gtech when compared to a drag strip, about 5mph too much.

Is it that important to you to establish the 1/4 mile time to owners for a car YOU DON'T EVEN OWN?

THE RX8 ON AVERAGE WILL BE RUNNING 15.1-15.4@90-92MPH. DEAL WITH IT. SOME MAY BE SLIGHTLY FASTER, SOME WILL BE SLIGHTLY SLOWER.

This sort of comment is entirely unnecessary, nor is it particularly factual. You can deny break-in all you want but we are seeing dynos coming out with higher numbers as cars get more miles on them.

Likewise in your assertation you completely ignore the timeslips released that showed an average run in the mid 14's. Regardless of what a DRIVER might get, the CAR is capable of mid 14 second quarter miles. That is a simple fact. But of course your ego is so caught up in trashing the RX-8 you're not very interested in facts.

Go away again. These forums were much more pleasant without trolls like you around.

whoah whoah, not this again.. hold up a second. Noones here to TRASH the rx-8! Please stopp assuming the worst! I love the fucking car! I've test driven one and I'm THIS close to buying one *holds thumb and forefinger close together*

All I'm trying to find out is how much power they actually have, since yes.. I do like to drive fast, and yes.. I already have a fairly quick car, and no, I don't particularly care to double my monthly payments for something that doesn't really perform any better.

And finally, the biggest deal to me, is just the fact that mazda is misrepresenting it's power output to the customers. Does that not bother ANYONE in here? Do the words FALSE ADVERTISEMENT mean nothing? You do understand we're not talking about 9 horspower here.. we're talking about potentially 30. at 238 horsepower, I'm confident the rx-8 would pull mid fourteens with ease.

I understand that not everyone is concerned with power.. THATS OK.. but some people ARE concerned with it. We're not being harsh, or offensive, or pushy or mean.. all we're doing is stating facts and observations. I'm sorry if those displease you.

Now, back on subject: You mention timeslips showing mid 14 second times.. a few people have mentioned these, but I've looked around and haven't seen anything of the sort. Maybe you can link us to them? Trust me, I'd LOVE for you to prove me wrong!

-Tresch

Originally posted by aussie77
Is it that important to you to establish the 1/4 mile time to owners for a car YOU DON'T EVEN OWN?



This sort of comment is entirely unnecessary, nor is it particularly factual. You can deny break-in all you want but we are seeing dynos coming out with higher numbers as cars get more miles on them.

Likewise in your assertation you completely ignore the timeslips released that showed an average run in the mid 14's. Regardless of what a DRIVER might get, the CAR is capable of mid 14 second quarter miles. That is a simple fact. But of course your ego is so caught up in trashing the RX-8 you're not very interested in facts.

Go away again. These forums were much more pleasant without trolls like you around.

If you want to live in a dream world, thats fine. If you don't like me telling facts, thats fine too. But the guy Vosko showed a 191 dyno sheet then a 15.2@92 time slip.

As for the other mystery time slips you speak of, where are they, where did they come from, who did they come from? If they are from Mazda or a Mazda sponsered source, they are COMPLETLEY worthless.

Real timeslips from real people are what matters, and in MOST cases usually people run BETTER then published times.. Also not the case here..

Why don't you go to the track and see for yourself and prove me wrong, I have $1000 that you won't go under 15.0.

Some people are either so hard headed they cannot accept facts or they have NO clue and a total disregard for physics/facts and are gullible enough to believe Mazda's slips after they are still selling RX8's with published 238HP when it should be closer to 220.

Also so what if 1 person runs a 14.5 with an rx8 if some mystery time slip is true, nobody else is coming close to that number!!

my 91 MPH is going to be more like the 188rwhp pull than the 196rwhp pull. this was done on regular 93 octane. if we had put in the 103 octane i bet it would have done a few more MPH on the strip

the rx8 is a 14 second car. it is VERY hard to run 14's but it can. i KNOW it can :)

There is really too much discussions based on recycled info over and over. I hope to see more people speaking directly from experience, after taking their RX8's to the track and dyno. Seems only a few people here are actually doing that.

I am really considering buying the RX8. BUT, I am holding my purchase until I am sure about the hp and acceleration capability of the car. Those are very important to me. Doesnt mean that looks, handling, braking and overall quality arent, they are and the RX8 passed my approval in all those aspects! But speed/power is a huge raison d'etre for a car like the RX8 (and the s2000/350z for that matter).

And since I live in the tropics where its hot/humid most o fthe tiime i suspect that the RX8 will post even worse times in puerto rico weather if the ecu isnt tuned right from the factory. I even read a post in a local forum that a guy took his RX8 to the track and posted a 16.1 sec 1/4 mile and left in embarassment (i am sure he had a bad 60ft time but his 89mph trap speed wasnt stellar either)

The 350Z doesnt have that problem, several of my friends have them (and G35 coupes) and they are very consistent and produce good power and are SOLID mid 14 sec cars stock. Regardless of driving skill they will post 14 sec 1/4 mile times easily. S2000 require more skill but locally i have seen stock times from 14.4-14.9, solid 14 sec car too. RSX type s's are 15second cars stock here but they respond tremendously to mods! My friend has 215 wheel hp! (rsx-r factory cams/chip/intake/header/exhaust) taking from a stock 15.3 1/4 mile to a 13.9!!!. If the RX8 is the same well, I would buy it!

Originally posted by vosko
my 91 MPH is going to be more like the 188rwhp pull than the 196rwhp pull. this was done on regular 93 octane. if we had put in the 103 octane i bet it would have done a few more MPH on the strip

LOL, i'm sure 90% of cars will do a little better if you put 103 OCTANE in it!!! I have been actually thinking of doing this myself

I am confident the RX8 can get into the 14's too, 14.8-14.9. It will take a hell'of'a launch (probably in the 2.000 60' range) in ideal conditions and a stronger engine then average 175-180rwhp that is commonly seen. It will happen but it will not likely happen very often.

Also I wouldn't call it a 14 second car, I occasionally break into the 13's and I wouldn't call my car a 13 second car. I just say its a very low 14 second car occasionally cracking into the 13's with good launches.

http://rotarynews.com/view.php?id=208

Time slips. Of course you don't want to believe them so you won't, Blue 350z. Again, why are you so obsessed with this when you don't even own the car?

As people get more miles on their cars, we have been seeing a gradual increase in hp. The highest with 'normal' gas I've seen on these forums so far is a 191. That's a decent increase from the original 175's that everyone was freaking out about, and I'll wait to see where things END UP AT before I jump to conclusions and state facts. The funny thing is, you're jumping around making statements in an aggressive manner as though you know what the hell you're talking about, and again YOU DON'T EVEN OWN THE CAR!

Originally posted by aussie77
http://rotarynews.com/view.php?id=208

Time slips. Of course you don't want to believe them so you won't, Blue 350z. Again, why are you so obsessed with this when you don't even own the car?

As people get more miles on their cars, we have been seeing a gradual increase in hp. The highest with 'normal' gas I've seen on these forums so far is a 191. That's a decent increase from the original 175's that everyone was freaking out about, and I'll wait to see where things END UP AT before I jump to conclusions and state facts. The funny thing is, you're jumping around making statements in an aggressive manner as though you know what the hell you're talking about, and again YOU DON'T EVEN OWN THE CAR!

Trust me, I know what I am taking about, I have a Bachelors in Computer Engineering and a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics, I have been an avid car enthusiast since I got my license, I have lots of drag strip experience and have followed every car magazine since I was 15.

I am not an idiot, and I wish some of you people would grow up and face some facts. You are here quoting times from a Mazda/Renesis influenced media, which probably used a RX8 with a tweaked ECU (think how easily that could have been arranged) if they were even indeed real time slips. Why don't they have footage of this happening? You can bet if the slip came from an RX8 it's ECU was tweaked for the run on purpose to try and quiet you people down.

Can you explain to me why NOBODY is running better then a 15.16@91.96?? Tell me, explain this to me aussie I dare you!

Well, easy people, lets see if we get back to the original subject of the 196rwhp dyno then a 15.1x 1/4 mile time at less than 92mph with reasonable 60ft times. That is VERY weird in a 3000lb car. Maybe the ECU is very inconsistent, sometimes it puts down the power and sometimes it doesnt.

The breaking in excuse is getting old and really dont expect your car to gain 20 whp after you put on thousands of miles that is ridiculous. I took my jetta to the track at 5k miles and at 25k it posted almost identical times ditto at 50k. I even took my honda pilot suv to the track with only 500 miles on the odo!! and then with 10k miles and guess what? almost identical times. See the trend here.

Well and now i will go and see if I can test drive a RX8! I want some direct experience with the car.

Hey Blue350Z, I think indirectly implying your car being a 13 second car is VERY extreme...you BARELY got into the 13s by .028 seconds. Putting yourself in this category is laughable.

Getting back to the discussion at hand...it's a shame that TENTHS of a second matter to so many people. If we use Blue350Z's logic, the minute that an RX8 gets a 1/4 mile run of 14.999, it automatically qualifies as a 14 second car. And if that's the TITLE you want (which obviously means SO much to you), then realize that eventually someone is going to achieve that, which some people have done already. Timeslips have been posted here, whether you choose to accept it or not.

So get over it.

Alright. I also happen to have a Bachelor of Science in Physics (and I can guarantee your G.P.A wasn't higher.. that I will bet a lot of money on), and a Masters in Engineering from GA Tech. IT doesn't mean I know all the facts of the situation. The simple truth is I do not, even though I own one of these cars.

Why? Because I didn't build it. I don't know what the break-in to peak performance is. I don't know the computer code in the ECU that kicks in on dynos.

If you were really interested in the truth and not just dragging the 8 down you might be more up to date on the things some people HAVE found out so far.

Such as the following thread:

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10823

Run-down: There appears to be error-code in the ECU that DOES mess with the engine when all four wheels aren't turning.

Just like the dynos ARE increasing with time... there has been a few posted, if you took the time to look for them.


I'm not going to sit here and say I am smarter than you are Blue 350z, or that I know more. In fact, quite the opposite - I am fully accepting of the fact I don't yet have all the facts. I DO however have some patience, and I DON'T have any obsession with seeing the situation one way or another.

If Mazda is lying, they will get caught. The enthusiast community will see to that between dynos, track times, etc etc. If Mazda is telling the truth, we will CONTINUE to see a gradual increase in the car's performance with miles until it reaches its peak performance.

Time slips are released with mid 14's and you write them off. Dynos are slowly increasing in power and you write that off. Evidence suggests that the ECU doesn't allow peak performance on a dyno anyway and you either ignore it or write that off too. Despite all of this, you do state with authority that YOU know the truth behind the situation. That YOU know without a doubt what is going on. And somehow it seems very important to you.. again despite the fact that you don't even own an RX-8, and apparantly have no intention of buying one. So the simple question is this: what are you doing here? What is it you hope to accomplish with your attitude and your posts? Is it to make everyone who doesn't own a 350z feel like crap about their car? If that's the case then I have a good word to describe you that the forum moderators wouldn't like too much. If it isn't then I can only assume that you are here because you feel somehow threatened by a car that is considered a 'competitor' to yours, that a lot of magazines and websites are touting as something better. Doh!

aussie: thought 350 is a bit harsh at times, he's right. Those are all pre-production and special production cars. None of those would be sold at dealers. I don't necessarily think mazda or whoever would specially TUNE the cars for this application, but they probably didn't get DEtuned at the docks or whatever like the ones sold on lots are.

You're right in that we can't say anything conclusive until we get a large sampling of data.. but there is SOME data out there, and it's all pointing towards the 210hp theory.

Hopefully these threads will encourage more people to get out to the tracks and run

Originally posted by RX8Lover
Hey Blue350Z, I think indirectly implying your car being a 13 second car is VERY extreme...you BARELY got into the 13s by .028 seconds. Putting yourself in this category is laughable.

Getting back to the discussion at hand...it's a shame that TENTHS of a second matter to so many people. If we use Blue350Z's logic, the minute that an RX8 gets a 1/4 mile run of 14.999, it automatically qualifies as a 14 second car. And if that's the TITLE you want (which obviously means SO much to you), then realize that eventually someone is going to achieve that, which some people have done already. Timeslips have been posted here, whether you choose to accept it or not.

So get over it.

WOW what an IDIOT.. Ever hear of reading comprehension??

"Also I wouldn't call it a 14 second car, I occasionally break into the 13's and I wouldn't call my car a 13 second car. I just say its a very low 14 second car occasionally cracking into the 13's with good launches."

Now for the blind.

"I occasionally break into the 13's and I wouldn't call my car a 13 second car. "

I expect a retraction of your last post or at least a reply to your stupid post.

PS. Still no reply from aussie explaining why everybody is running 15.2ish

I am not an idiot, and I wish some of you people would grow up and face some facts. You are here quoting times from a Mazda/Renesis influenced media, which probably used a RX8 with a tweaked ECU (think how easily that could have been arranged) if they were even indeed real time slips.

By the way, it is advisable when you tell someone to face FACTS that you don't proceed with pure supposition. The FACT is that it is a timeslip from a real track. The name of the place is on the timeslip - look them up and give them a call :)

But exactly how can you say that they "probably" used an RX-8 with a tweaked ECU? And then prompt us to "think how easily"... it seems to me more like you've spent too much time imagining ways to pick on the RX-8. The FACT is you're just posting pure crap in that entire paragraph, one filled with all sorts of qualifying statements such as 'probably' that mark it out as your own imaginings.

dude, i can read, but I know what you are implying. And the fact that you dismiss everything anyone ever says makes you just as "blind" as I am.

Go away.

Originally posted by aussie77


By the way, it is advisable when you tell someone to face FACTS that you don't proceed with pure supposition. The FACT is that it is a timeslip from a real track. The name of the place is on the timeslip - look them up and give them a call :)

But exactly how can you say that they "probably" used an RX-8 with a tweaked ECU? And then prompt us to "think how easily"... it seems to me more like you've spent too much time imagining ways to pick on the RX-8. The FACT is you're just posting pure crap in that entire paragraph, one filled with all sorts of qualifying statements such as 'probably' that mark it out as your own imaginings.

Still waiting for your explaination why everybody on this forum (real people with real results) are getting 15.2ish numbers..

Originally posted by RX8Lover
dude, i can read


You just proved you can't with your previous post

Oook, so it's come down to name calling. Very mature guys.

Why can't people just have a discussion without resorting to aggression?

You guys should have taken some time out from your Science majors and taken a debate class or something :)

Originally posted by Blue 350z


You just proved you can't with your previous post

Wow you got me. You're awesome.

Tresch, the following statement precedes the timeslips:

"Yellow 44 and Sliver 49 are pre production cars build on the assembly line (not by hand), and have been retrofitted with full-blown production-spec engines".

Originally posted by Tresch
Oook, so it's come down to name calling. Very mature guys.

Why can't people just have a discussion without resorting to aggression?

You guys should have taken some time out from your Science majors and taken a debate class or something :)

People like to start with me because I don't own an RX8. You don't need to own an RX8 to know things. I seen slips, I read posts, I see RX8's with my own 2 eyes at the track unable to break 15.3!

Originally posted by Blue 350z


People like to start with me because I don't own an RX8. You don't need to own an RX8 to know things. I seen slips, I read posts, I see RX8's with my own 2 eyes at the track unable to break 15.3!

Well I went to the track and I saw an Integra which couldnt break 15s. Does that mean ALL Integras can't? No. it means his couldn't.

So what. you saw 2 Rx8s that made certain times. You can't really sit here and say ALL RX8s do that.

Originally posted by RX8Lover


Well I went to the track and I saw an Integra which couldnt break 15s. Does that mean ALL Integras can't? No. it means his couldn't.

So what. you saw 2 Rx8s that made certain times. You can't really sit here and say ALL RX8s do that.

True, but those times were consistant with times posted here.

Aussie, still waiting for your explaination on why everybody is posting timeslips of 15.2ish numbers

Remember everybody that the forum has a handy dandy ignore feature.

Comes in real handy for trolls.

"Yellow 44 and Sliver 49 are pre production cars build on the assembly line (not by hand), and have been retrofitted with full-blown production-spec engines"

True, I saw that.. but they're still "pre-production" and "retrofitted" and thus not standard. I like to approach problems with a fairly scientific method. There are simply too many possible variables in the open with those vehicles to enter their times into the mix.

When I see times like this from post-production cars with no modifications whatsoever, I will gladly smile, say "you're right" and go about my business!

Originally posted by Blue 350z


True, but those times were consistant with times posted here.

Aussie, still waiting for your explaination on why everybody is posting timeslips of 15.2ish numbers

Everybody? You're talking about a handful of people. Come back to me in a year from now, and if every RX8 runs those times, then maybe your argument would hold water.

But until then, please stop.

I can understand your point Tresch. To me at least the engine is the key thing here. I mean if the rest of the car is done on the factory line makes little difference, but a full-production engine in that car.. that's the key information. But to each his own ;)

Aussie: True, true.. but what concerns me more is ECU castration. When this stuff gets to the US it seems like they're cutting it way back, and not just on the dyno. I have no doubt the engine can make the power, hell.. so far it's looking like the japanese models are even dynoing at over 200 to the wheels. And it seems so far like they're responding really well to mods...

RX8lover makes a good point, too. We don't have a HUGE sample base to choose from. My point is that the data that we DO have is very consistant. Do we need to see more data? Definately. Should we be able to have a friendly, mature discussion about it in the meantime? I don't see why not.

Originally posted by RX8Lover


Everybody? You're talking about a handful of people. Come back to me in a year from now, and if every RX8 runs those times, then maybe your argument would hold water.

But until then, please stop.

So thats it.. Your big explaination is to wait huh... Nice one, I expected more from you. 1 week after the Z was released we were seeing timeslips for 14.0-14.2. So whats the wait for? No car is getting any more then 0-5HP to the wheels from a break in UNLESS there is an ECU kickoff mileage which there is "none" per Mazda and the instrution manual.

The only way times will increase dramatically in time is if Mazda starts tweaking ECU's of new RX8's coming into the USA to save face.

Also I don't know why there is so much aggression toward me and other outsiders on this forum. Its pretty bad, no other site is like this, IMO I offer some good insite and facts toward discussions and I always find myself having to defend myself just for presenting facts.

what do i get if i run 14's on pump gas??? i want a prize. hell i don't even own an rx8 LOL

with 103 octane a 14.5 is possible definetely :)

i can't wait to for judge ito to make the headers for his rx8

To be perfectly honest, people are just starting to get their cars, and you come here to state these "facts" ( I use the term loosely).

Give the cars a chance to get a little more widespread before you start a debate. And I think you've earned quite a few ignores from people, and frankly I don't blame them. You come across very pompous, and as a community here we really don't need your "insight".

So say what you will, but realize that most people may not see your remarks because you are ignored. have a great life.

Tresch said: "Should we be able to have a friendly, mature discussion about it in the meantime? I don't see why not."

Psychology 101 was 20 years ago for me, but I do recall the theory of cognitive dissonance ( http://www.ithaca.edu/faculty/stephens/cdback.html). If that theory holds true, it provides an explanation for the aggressively defensive tone of the 8's owners. This is exacerbated by Mazda's offer to buy the car back...these owners have the opportunity (for six more days if they haven't chosen the maintenance offer) to return the car and put it all behind them. Those that have chosen to keep the car will, according to the theory, seek to dispel and disprove anything that suggests there are issues with the car.

Tresch and 350 both have, in my opinion, very accurate posts. As they aren't owners (yet, perhaps in the case of Tresch), they may be better positioned to offer truely objective input on all the HP and related issues than us owners. Granted, 350 spends a lot of time here for not owning the car, but he's probably enthralled by the blind subjectivity of rx8glover and others.

Originally posted by Blue 350z
No car is getting any more then 0-5HP to the wheels from a break in UNLESS there is an ECU kickoff mileage which there is "none" per Mazda and the instrution manual.

For a know-it-all, you sure are missing some common data. Go read some of the magazine long-term tests, where they've run performance data on their test cars when new and then again after 20K miles plus. It is actually quite common for a car to pick up several tenths and several mph with the additional mileage (and this is presuming several runs averaged, not just the single best run). IE, more than 0-5 HP.

So, the RX-8 runs you witnessed - how did their drivers launch? 8K rpm with a clutch drop? If not, then the times you witnessed are slow because of the driver, not the car. I have less faith in the ability of the average driver to get maximum performance from the car (and thus generate a representative result) than you do.

Regards,
Gordon

silver8 -

You said exacerbated! That makes you OK in my book! :D

Welp, I guess it's up to everyone to draw their own conclusions at this point. The way I see it, personally.. is that all the evidence point to missing horsepower, with a THEORY that it might improve enough over time.

Hopefully it's all sorted out by spring. I would really like to see this car take off.

-Tresch

Here are the 1/4 mile times I've managed to find on these forums:

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10493&highlight=1%2F4+mile+time

15.16 @ 92mph from a guy who had NEVER run at the track before. Launched at 6000 rpm.


http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11379&highlight=1%2F4+mile+time

15.21 @ 91.9 mph
Car with 745 miles on it. Experienced driver new to car who claimed it was a horrible time and thinks he could do much better.


http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9514&highlight=1%2F4+mile+time

15.277 @ 90.38 mph
1350 miles on the car, launching at 6000rpm.


http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9081&highlight=1%2F4+mile+time

14.742 @ 96.13
Car with 1100 miles on it. Three runs, all three under 15s.

Then of course there is the GTechPro run at 14.0 seconds which you completely discount...

Not exactly a whole lot of information for you to judge your statements on, Blue 350z. That's assuming of course you are even interested in the truth.

Personally I am all for a mature discussion of the topic. It is hard to have a mature discussion with someone who exaggerates wildly, completely ignores all logical arguments thrown at him, and is obviously interested only in argument, not resolution.

If we ignore the timeslips released by Mazda, we currently have four, maybe six track times by actual owners. I found four with a reasonable search of the forums.

Now, three of them were low 15's, one was 14.7ish. Of the three 15's, two were on 6000 rpm launches, which I think at this point everyone on this forum knows is NOT your optimal launch rpm. The third 15s time was from a guy who owns a very damned fast RX-7 with plenty of experience who seemed confident he could get a better time after driving the car some more.

EIther way, there is not enough evidence to truly draw conclusions at this point. Which again brings us back to a discussion filled with opinions. It would help a lot of some people didn't come in here aggressively stating their opinions as facts, and exaggerate what small information we do have while ignoring any info that doesn't support their pre-conceived goal of criticizing the car.

Originally posted by aussie77

If we ignore the timeslips released by Mazda, we currently have four, maybe six track times by actual owners. I found four with a reasonable search of the forums.

Now, three of them were low 15's, one was 14.7ish. Of the three 15's, two were on 6000 rpm launches, which I think at this point everyone on this forum knows is NOT your optimal launch rpm. .

All I am going to say to this is:

The guy that ran a 15.16@91.96 pulled a 2.16 60' .. Your not going to get too much better then that, maybe a 2.0 60' which may get that car under 15 seconds barley. This means numbers will only improve if dyno numbers improve, its a matter of facts and physics, not opinion.

Also how much are you expecting from 175-180rwhp on average? No matter how you launch or what 60' you get (to a point), the trap speed pretty much tells the tale of HP and potential ET. 92mph is not gonna get you too much lower then 15.0.

Also what if the car can crack a 14.9 or a 14.8 maybe 1 on 20 runs?? It has already shown by drivers that the car will consistantly run low 15's.

And my first time ever racing my Z at the track it had 1500 miles on it and my very first run ever was a 14.18@100.56. If you know ow to drive a car, it shouldn't matter how many times you hit the track before you can be concidered to be a legit time.

Like the 350z's, on average most run 14.0-14.3 (go to my350z.com and see the 1/4 time registry) and with the occasional awesome hook-up launch people crack into the 13's. But 350z's run consistantly in the low 14's. I know some 350z's stock can consistantly run a 13.6-13.8 in some of the "freak" engines.

I last thing, on the long term test drives I have rarely seen a car gain more then .2 and 2mph at 40k miles. Do you think all the 350z people were holding there breath waiting to be able to hit the published mag times all the way till the magical 20k miles or 40k miles? No, some of the very first time slips posted by members were already better then published times.

Dyno numbers will need to go up before you start seeing people running consistantly better then low 15's.

From what I see here so far, I think this car will be a high 14sec to 15 flat ET car after more cars are out there and more practice. Like when the S2000 was new, ET's were all over the place because a lower torque car that needs to be launched at high rpm is ticky to get just right. (So I'm ignoring ET's for now and looking only at trap speeds). So for awhile the S2K's were running low 15's and mid to high 14's. Now I see a lot of mid 14's and there were some freaks with perfect conditions that have shown timeslips of 13.9's or 14 flats. But I still think in general it is a ~mid 14 sec car on average with trap speeds ~94-96MPH.

The RX8 is slightly heavier than the S2000. There was a post where someone weighed their RX8GT with half a tank of gas and it was 3000lbs even with no driver. Some S2K's have weighed between 2800-2900 lbs with no driver. So with that 100-200lb difference and approximately equal HP ratings, the RX8 will probably shake out as a 14.7-15.0 sec car depending on driver after people start to get more consistent with driving the car. Already there are some lower traps of ~92, but there is also one that are in the 95-96mph range. So I think the trap speeds seen will average out to be just a hair less that what S20K driver's see on average due to weight differences of the cars. So I do think it is possible that the 238HP really is there. We'll just have to wait and see.

It has already shown by drivers that the car will consistantly run low 15's.

Why are you so quick to exaggerate the facts? What drivers are you talking about? You make it sound like we have fifty or more people who can't break 15.2 seconds when in fact we have THREE. Again if you would bother to read for the purpose of understanding rather than just finding ammunition for your reply, you would note that TWO of the THREE ran with lower RPM launches which do NOT give the car an optimal start. That isn't a complicated concept, and someone with two degrees such as yourself should be able to wrap your mind around it. We currently have too little data to draw any solid conclusions - so stop stating your opinions as though they are facts.

High RPM cars are very difficult to launch consistantly, usually from the lack of torque. But you can't argue that a 2.16 60' is a pretty good 60' and that got him a 15.16@91.96. So even if that peticular car (I say peticular because some RX8's have more or less power to the wheels) nailed a perfect launch, say a 2.0 60' that would hit about a 14.95-15.0ish ET.

You can say better launches all you want, a 2.16 60' is pretty good.

Aussie, we will have this convo 2-3 months from now, again and well see if people are still running low 15's still.. I say consistant because there will be a few runs here and there better, but I can put money on it that the RX8 will be a consistant low 15's car, UNLESS magically (or if Mazda tweaks) the dyno's will rise and numbers will fall.

Come on! 92 MPH traps! No offense but thats really weak.. What are you expecting to see?? low 14's with a 92 trap?? Usually better launches = lower traps..

aussie:
I checked www.rotarynews.com ,
they posted several factory mazda rx8 drag timeslips. Interesting enough, one of the cars wouldnt crack the 14's, even with a 2.0 60ft it still did low 15's! While others posted 95-97mph trap speeds at 14.4-14.5 sec. That is a HUGE difference! no suck difference in drivers. A good driver might get a better 60ft time than a bad driver and up to 2mph better in the 1/4 but 5-6mph better, not likely.

So it seems some people are getting 15sec cars others 14sec cars. its all so confusing, here are the facts so far:


1. 15.0-15.3 1/4 mile times at 91-92mph, all day on stock RX8, w/ 60ft times of 2-2.4sec.

2. 14.4-14.9 timeslips at 95-99mph, again 60ft times of 2.0-2.3

3. dyno charts from a dynojet, 175~188 (stock, no race gas)

4. dyno of a rx8 with exhaust, 18X.XX wheelHP.

5. JDM RX8 dyno at over 200 whp.

6. people stating with conviction that the RX8 goes into some kind of safety mode at the dyno.

7. people stating that the RX8 will gain 10-20whp from break in.



Like some people suggested lets wait till more people dyno their cars and race the at the dragstrip. To those who own RX8 if I were you i woulve gone to the track looong ago and maybe to a dynojet also and would speak on fact. I am trying to get a hold of a RX8 owner in Puerto Rico to see if he can provide some REAL data. I already know S2000, 350z and G35coupe 6MT owners so i could arrange to meet all at the track and do some real testing.

Hey if i remember right I seen a time slip on that rotary site that had a 2.3 60' run a 14.5@96 and then another had a 2.0 60' and ran around a 15.0..

I SMELLY SOMETHING VERY FISHY!

-The cars with the good times probably were the pre-production pre-ECU tweaked RX8's running what they should be running.

-The others seem to be the watered down emmissions friendly production USA models that are running low 15's.

I think this makes 100% sense

Can we all just stop feeding Blue350Z ammunition?

Nothing we say or show will EVER convince him that his almighty 350z would be shadowed by an RX8.

We can list all the timeslips, all the explanations on the RX8 safety mode screwing with dynos, and all the hard data we want. Until this guy sees with his own EYES at a track, nothing will satisfy him.

Let's all just do everyone a favor and ignore him.

Originally posted by RX8Lover
Can we all just stop feeding Blue350Z ammunition?

Nothing we say or show will EVER convince him that his almighty 350z would be shadowed by an RX8.

We can list all the timeslips, all the explanations on the RX8 safety mode screwing with dynos, and all the hard data we want. Until this guy sees with his own EYES at a track, nothing will satisfy him.

Let's all just do everyone a favor and ignore him.

OK I had it with you RX8LOVER....

What does RX8 vs 350z have to do with this convo? And I am beginning to think your a real jerk now, All I am doing is talking about facts here. Name thing 1 thing I said that was not 100% factual or name 1 time I had bashed somebody for no reason or said 1 negative thing about the RX8 itself. What is your damn problem with me? The fact that I know about cars and I shoot down people's BS bother you? Should I leave so you can all just think to yourself whatever you want even if its not true at all?

Go ahead, believe the low 15's RX8 is someday magically going to get faster, sooner or later you will realize it's not gonna happen. Its going to be a low 15 second car. No biggie, its just off the expectations made by Mazda. Be mad at Mazda, not me and stop with the hostillity already and grow the heck up!!

Hey, other people are reading the thread too though, you can ignore him if you want, I say keep the info coming! :)

I think some of this is good stuff, starting to get some good collections of data and observations on BOTH sides of the issue. I like I like!

I'm really thinking about throwing together a simple website and compiling all the dyno charts and timeslips I can find. I don't know why this interests me so much, but it started out as a little aggrivating, now it's just a puzzle!

Maybe when the dealer gets their test drive car in, I can mark off a 1/4 mile on a country road grab a friend with a stopwatch and see what we can see, hehe.

I'm also really curious to see how well the thing responds to more and more aftermarket performance stuff. Would be sweet if you could get the car into 13s with just bolt-ons. Maybe wishful thinking? maybe not! That's a whole other topic though

Originally posted by Blue 350z
Should I leave so you can all just think to yourself whatever you want even if its not true at all?

Yes, please. Thanks for offering, this will be very much appreciated by so many!

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


Yes, please. Thanks for offering, this will be very much appreciated by so many!

Regards,
Gordon

I second that. Take care.

Regardless of how good the 60' times were on some of those timeslips, there are a bunch 92mph traps and a few ~95mph traps in the runs people have done (GTech not included since I don't trust GTech times from experience). So if you assume that there is a difference on different days/nights due to humidty, elevation, or temp, we may take a 'reaching stab' at extrapolating that, maybe on average, we may see traps in the low 90-mid 90's range. The mid 90's trap speeds would support that a 3150-3200lb car (driver included) may have ~200whp. Right now, everyone can and seems to be making assumptions right now, but right now noone knows which cars are the outliers. Who knows, maybe the 96mph trap was a fluke, but maybe so are the 91-92's. There just needs to be more data to make a conclusion for now. And if you want to get really accurate, then everyone should include humidity, temp and elevation data with the timeslips so that the traps can be normalized.

I have to say that I still have my reservations, but I am open to the notion that it may prove to actually have the advertised HP. I'm just going to keep watching and looking at the info/data as it comes in and ask an occasional question about it for now before taking a firm stance like it seems many have already.

blue350 will be back when he gets bored
too bad though

You guys are wicked F'ed up on these forums. I get nothing but attitude just because I drive a 350z? Or is it because I state facts that you people don't like because you can't admit its the truth??

You people have alot to learn on these forums about how to treat people.

I know exactly where the aggression comes from, you guys are pissed cuz you got had by Mazda and have no other recourse but to take it out on outsiders that's car is running as advertised. Mazda will have the last laugh because they are still selling them overrated at 238HP.

Take your POS Renesis engine getting 15-17MPG thats making no HP or TQ and cry over and over again about where the HP is and when its coming back. Pretend the horsepower fairy is going to come and sprinkle HP into your engine one day. All I know is I bought a car with 287HP and 274TQ and I got every single one of them and then some meeting and exceeding published times.

SO continue making posts crying about where all that HP went, keep making excuses, keep living in dreamland and have fun running low 15's at the track and keeping up with sedans and gettign beat by RSX Type-S's, because its not going to change. I'll be checking in now and then just to point out that its still a 15 second car and eventually your "wait wait wait" excuse with run flat and you will have to face facts then.

Deny it all you want. Your getting a measely 16MPG and getting civic like TQ and the RX8 is missing like 30+HP all for a $30k-35k, good deal!!

You should check out what other forums around the net think about your RX8, most just call it a joke running mid 15's. No lie, even the crossfire people are crapping on it and they only have 215HP and are running high 14's.

I tried to ignore all these negative comments toward me but I can only take so much. You people are so bitter and it shows like neon lights. Its pretty sad.

If you feelings get hurt we go you come back like a ex-girlfriend

I meant why do you come back like an ex girlfriend
take the hint and leave

Originally posted by mikeb
If you feelings get hurt we go you come back like a ex-girlfriend

Sorry, I can't read this, I forgot my decoder pen

what I'm trying to say is you always come back like a battered women

Originally posted by mikeb
what I'm trying to say is you always come back like a battered women

LOL, I'm not the battered one, I am happy as hell with my Z. Your the bitter battered woman that keeps coming back to Mazda even after they told you that you got ripped for 35HP.

If you were at all interested in the truth or facts Blue that would be one thing. But the simple truth is you are not. You take whatever small amount of data that supports your claims and state them as fact. You also IGNORE any data that contradicts your opinions. Because opinions are all they are. You don't know jack about this engine or this car. You obviously have a vested interest in criticising it or you wouldn't even be here.

FACT: Despite your statements that it will always be 'only' a low 15 second car, someone has run a 14.7s 1/4 mile on a production car.

FACT: the THREE time slips that you are using as conclusive data to support your claims are not conclusive. Two of them were done with lower RPM launches, and even if they were perfect launches the cars have low miles on them, and there are still only THREE tests. Not a sufficient sample size to state anything with authority.

FACT: You rant on about the low mpg SOME people are getting. Some people are getting just fine gas milage from their cars with zero complaints. Almost everyone reports improvement as the car gets more miles on it.

But you don't care about any of this. You only care about whatever scraps of information you can find which support your pre-decided view on this issue. You don't bring ANY constructive comments or thoughts to the discussion and you are nothing more than a troll. The sad thing is you keep promising to leave these boards and then come back. The HP issue pales in comparison to the disappointment I feel every time I see your ignorant inflammatory posts on here.

If you do ever decide to come back (again), try doing so with two things:

1) Some thought and consideration. Your every post exudes confrontation and hostility. It isn't a discussion with you it is an obvious argument, whether we want one or not.

2) An open mind. Right now you don't care what information exists or what anyone says. You have decided for yourself that the car is missing hp and for some reason it is incredibly important for you to convince people who actually own the car that there is something wrong with it.

So either start to show EITHER of the above or piss off. If you were a disgruntled owner people would still get sick of your continuous crap but it might be at least a little understandable. The fact you don't even own the car but this argument is so important to you only says one thing about you, and I think everyone here knows what that is.

I'll be going to mazda for my free service and 500 bucks
How do you figure its 35hp internet tough guy

Originally posted by Blue 350z
You guys are wicked F'ed up on these forums. I get nothing but attitude just because I drive a 350z? Or is it because I state facts that you people don't like because you can't admit its the truth??

You people have alot to learn on these forums about how to treat people.

I know exactly where the aggression comes from, you guys are pissed cuz you got had by Mazda and have no other recourse but to take it out on outsiders that's car is running as advertised. Mazda will have the last laugh because they are still selling them overrated at 238HP.

Take your POS Renesis engine getting 15-17MPG thats making no HP or TQ and cry over and over again about where the HP is and when its coming back. Pretend the horsepower fairy is going to come and sprinkle HP into your engine one day. All I know is I bought a car with 287HP and 274TQ and I got every single one of them and then some meeting and exceeding published times.

SO continue making posts crying about where all that HP went, keep making excuses, keep living in dreamland and have fun running low 15's at the track and keeping up with sedans and gettign beat by RSX Type-S's, because its not going to change. I'll be checking in now and then just to point out that its still a 15 second car and eventually your "wait wait wait" excuse with run flat and you will have to face facts then.

Deny it all you want. Your getting a measely 16MPG and getting civic like TQ and the RX8 is missing like 30+HP all for a $30k-35k, good deal!!

You should check out what other forums around the net think about your RX8, most just call it a joke running mid 15's. No lie, even the crossfire people are crapping on it and they only have 215HP and are running high 14's.

I tried to ignore all these negative comments toward me but I can only take so much. You people are so bitter and it shows like neon lights. Its pretty sad.




Unfortunately Blue 350Z, its comments like this that get you into trouble.

Calling the Renesis a POS definitely wont win you any brownie points as far as sympathy goes.

I am also a 350Z owner, but unlike you I DONT make it a point to bring up the HP thing every single chance I get. I enjoy the RX-8 for what it is, and appreciate its virtues.

How would you feel if a BMW owner came onto the Z boards, and ragged about how the G35/350Z does not make the advertised HP rating? This was a heated debate last year on the Nissan boards, especially when the G35C was only slightly faster than the BMW 330Ci which made way less horsepower.

Fast forward to this year, and instead of 330Ci vs G35/Z, we have RX-8 vs 350Z. Just as Z owners aren't going to listen to BMW folks bad-mouthing the car, do you expect the RX-8 guys are going to listen to you?

Come on man, give it a rest.

excatly

Originally posted by Blue 350z
All I know is I bought a car with 287HP and 274TQ and I got every single one of them and then some meeting and exceeding published times.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We know that all you care about is your HP rating and straight line acceleration. Perhaps some of us don't much care about drag strip action, and bought the RX-8 because it was much more than a one-trick pony? Enjoy your Japanese Mustang.

As for your "facts" - aussie77 covered it, but what you keep bleating about aren't facts, they're your opinions or very carefully selected, limited data points that you've chosen to present your "arguments", while blindly ignoring all the non-supporting data points. When confronted with those, you just ignore them or dismiss them with some lame excuse. For a person of education with two degrees, you surely must have been exposed to at least the rudimentary principles of statistical analysis, but you sure haven't used one iota of them here. You keep harping on the same, lame arguments without any valid backing.For example, you constantly dismiss all the proper suggestions as to why the dyno results aren't valid for example, completely ignoring the facts of the engine safe mode reducing the HP. You completely ignore the facts that have been presented by the magazines and a couple of private owners about how the launch was critical to acceleration of the RX-8, and keep harping about how the few newbies who aren't launching properly are absolutely representative of all RX-8s. Mileage? Yeah, aussie77 nailed it again, you keep harping about 15 mpg when most of us have never got mileage that low, yet you insist that the 15 mpg figure is fact.

Have you read these cold, hard reviews of the 350Z yet?

Try the AutoSpeed 350Z review (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1839/article.html) , and then the AutoSpeed Driving Emotion Editorial (350Z - 3/10) (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1841/article.html) .

There's your facts for you. You're stuck with a one-dimensional boat - sure, it's fast in a straight line, but that's all. Do you keep hanging around here to beat us over the head with that one fact, in a feeble attempt to make yourself feel better and hide from the fact that your car is crude, rough, and unrefined, has unpredictable handling on anything other than a billiard-table-smooth track, and a plasticky, low-rent interior that belongs in a Saturn? We don't care, and aren't interested in being your therapeutic target for venting your frustration when you get kicked out of the 350Z forums again for being a completely, utterly annoying loser.

Please follow through on at least one offer, and go away. We don't wish to hide from anything but trolls like you.

Regards,
Gordon

LOL, forums are too funny..

Well see whats up when this HP, 1/4 ET stuff is STILL going on 1,2, even 6 months from now and your still wondering where it went and when the HP fairy will bring back the HP to the car.

Lets see how I got 35HP:
Average rwhp = 175-180
Drivetrain loss = 18% (AT MOST)
Crank power = About 215HP

250-215 = 35HP

Ouch, Even though I want to, I wont comment on the 350Z negatives, especially with that Saturn comeback. Cooler heads must prevail. No need to draw this out even further.

Hope you are happy now Blue 350Z, this perfectly good thread just turned nasty.

:mad:

Hear hear, Gordon. Yet another well articulated post. I'm sure Blue feels that by laughing at us he is somehow countering our logical arguments. Or something like that anyway ;)

EDIT: By the way Tweety-nator, don't feel bad. I think most if not all of us 8 owners have a respect for the 350Z. Indeed I'm sure Gordon has respect for it also. However sadly true it might be, a large portion of the trolls on these boards are Z owners and blatantly so. Another unfortunate fact is that some of them, such as Blue 350z have no apparant capability to understand logically constructed arguments that respect the differences between fact and opinion. Hence I think Gordon has resorted to the sort of reply which Blue 350z might actually understand... although I think even that is a long shot.

I know that most if not all of us understand that people like him are not representative of the entirety of 350z owners, and as I said we respect the car. Heck it was on my wish-list for a long time before the RX-8 came out ;) Happy driving!

Well people, a lot of you dont read well or dont care. But start with the title of THIS thread, its About the RX8's POWER! dyno results (correlated to 1/4 mile times/mph).

If G35's and 350z were missing power a lot of people would be inquiring on the subject (yes on their forums) and yes even flaming on 350z owners that dont wanna accept reality. A lot of people inquiring are potential buyers that are worried of purchasing a car with an overated engine. The fact is that 350z's make good power I have seen plenty of over 230 wheel hp dynos of stock 350z and g35 6mt cars on dynojets. Same with S2ks, 195whp average or more on stock cars is common. If they didnt , if they dynoed 180whp, people on honda forums , owners and non owners would be furious also and complaining and on a quest for answers.

Again this Thread is about POWER!!!!!! lack of power doesnt mean the car suxs, it just means that, less than advertised power! so please people dont keep ruining the thread while trying to justify to everyone your purchase please. its getting anoying.

Originally posted by Tweety-nator

Hope you are happy now Blue 350Z, this perfectly good thread just turned nasty.

:mad:

Its got nasty from people like rx8lover and aussie. Look back and see how many times he started with me for NO reason. I kept a level head ignoring him for the most part. But there comes a point were I draw the line.

Originally posted by aussie77
Hear hear, Gordon. Yet another well articulated post. I'm sure Blue feels that by laughing at us he is somehow countering our logical arguments. Or something like that anyway ;)

EDIT: By the way Tweety-nator, don't feel bad. I think most if not all of us 8 owners have a respect for the 350Z. Indeed I'm sure Gordon has respect for it also. However sadly true it might be, a large portion of the trolls on these boards are Z owners and blatantly so. Another unfortunate fact is that some of them, such as Blue 350z have no apparant capability to understand logically constructed arguments that respect the differences between fact and opinion. Hence I think Gordon has resorted to the sort of reply which Blue 350z might actually understand... although I think even that is a long shot.

I know that most if not all of us understand that people like him are not representative of the entirety of 350z owners, and as I said we respect the car. Heck it was on my wish-list for a long time before the RX-8 came out ;) Happy driving!

Thanks Aussie77. I just wish there were more people like 350S2K who owns both the 350Z and RX-8 , and can appreciate both.

I guess my thinking is, can not one love the 350Z and RX-8 at the same time? Are these mutually exclusive?

You are right though, cant blame Gordon for making the reply the way he did. I would too if I was in his position.

Originally posted by Blue 350z


Its got nasty from people like rx8lover and aussie. Look back and see how many times he started with me for NO reason. I kept a level head ignoring him for the most part. But there comes a point were I draw the line.

Well... since I dont know the whole issue between you guys, I guess its only fair for me to keep silent then.

Just a friendly suggestion, cant you guys just PM each other? ;)

Originally posted by Tweety-nator
Ouch, Even though I want to, I wont comment on the 350Z negatives, especially with that Saturn comeback. Cooler heads must prevail. No need to draw this out even further.

Sorry about that, Tweety-nator. ;) I know that Saturn shot was below the belt. I actually do have a lot of respect for the 350Z and it's capabilities, but as aussie77 said, the comeback was purely in the Blue350Z mode - supposed "facts" being trumpeted without any logic or consideration. I just picked one bad review out of the dozens of good ones and harped on that, just as Blue350Z likes to do here.

Even now, his only rebuttal is to talk some more about HP ratings and acceleration times. Blue350Z is truely one-dimensional. The HP "issue" actually doesn't bother me at all - I'm perfectly happy with the power I've got in my RX-8, I've never run at a drag strip and never will (although I do track days and autocross), I've got a family and children who like to come with me (try that in your 350Z, Blue - assuming you could even get a date, and then (an even bigger assumption) a second date, progressing to actual intimate relations that you currently can only fantasize about, and eventually a family), and a stylish (inside and out), light, great handling, well-built GT car. Blue350Z just can't get beyond the HP rating, never mind any thought to handling, ride, braking, and other equally important and satisfying performance parameters. A 350Z was never a consideration for me because of the 2 seats and limited luggage capacity, and a G35C was a momentary consideration until I actually tried the tiny back seat.

I feel sorry for Blue350Z and his ignorance. His blind abeyance to the almighty HP rating and dragstrip performance to the exclusion of other aspects of performance leaves him ignorant of the tremendous variety of excellent vehicles out there. I'm sure he figures that a Miata is a chick car and not a sports car, because it isn't very quick in a straight line. But hey, I'm not losing any sleep, and you sure won't see me over at the 350Z forums being a total major league twit and rabbiting on and on about greasy window tracks, rattles and shakes, brake problems, or whatever other problems that are bothering some minority of 350Z owners, trying to convince them they've got a lemon based on my own twisted priorities.

Regards,
Gordon

I cannot believe it has come to this. In Blue350Z's argument, he blatantly bashes the RX8. Do we honestly need this around here? No.

Think what you want, Blue350z. realize that it goes both ways. You will never accept our point of view, and we will NEVER accept yours.

Oh, and please leave. You have nothing constuctive to contribute to this site.

Originally posted by Blue 350z

Trust me, I know what I am taking about, I have a Bachelors in Computer Engineering and a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics, ...


Let me guess you got them from Whatsamatta U. As an FYI, a G.E.D. and couple of "Learning Microsoft Windows" CD's from the Video Professor don't qualify as a Bachelor of anything. I was going to let your trolling go unanswered, but I'm not going to let a 350z zealot who's obviously suffering from a chronic brain-fart call himself an engineer. It is an insult to all the other engineers on this forum.

I'm sure 90% of cars will do a little better if you put 103 OCTANE in it!!! I have been actually thinking of doing this myself

BTW, to clearly illustrate that you hear only what you want to hear. Vosko mixed 103 octane with 91. He did not use pure 103.

-Mr. Wigggles

Great 350Z review: :D

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1841/article.html

Originally posted by MPester
Great 350Z review: :D

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1841/article.html

LMAO! Thats the funnist thing I ever read!

Leave it to an Aussie to get a sports car and go off roading in it! He says the "stability light" kept blinking going down a dirt country road.. The only time that ever blinks for me is if I am giving it too much gas in the rain or I slip on the snow or ice.

Maybe he should be test driving trucks if he testing on dirt roads.

I gotta post that link on the Z forums, its SO silly. Why would somebody test drive a 350z on dirt roads, then complain of the suspension being too stiff! Its not an off road vechicle, I wouldn't even drive my Z over gravel

Originally posted by Blue 350z
He says the "stability light" kept blinking going down a dirt country road.

Perfect, just perfect. You couldn't have illustrated our point better. What he said was The Oxenford-Mt Tamborine road is a tough, unforgiving section of bitumen

Do you even understand what bitumen is?

It's asphalt, pavement, you great flaming twit.

And here you go again ranting about dirt roads based on a stupid assumption caused by your own lack of basic reading and comprehension skills. Now you're all smug because you're mocking this writer, when you've so completely and thoroughly misunderstood and missed the point. He's describing a real world, twisting, turning, climbing and dropping, mountainous sports car road. A paved road, to clear that up again for you since you will have ignored the point already.

Of course, you aren't familiar with any of those types of roads because you live your life a quarter mile at a time. Carry on, drag racing man. But PLEASE, carry on somewhere else. A quarter mile at a time, if you must. Just avoid those roads with corners, because so many of them don't even have straight sections a quarter mile long.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Blue 350z


LMAO! Thats the funnist thing I ever read!

Leave it to an Aussie to get a sports car and go off roading in it! He says the "stability light" kept blinking going down a dirt country road.. The only time that ever blinks for me is if I am giving it too much gas in the rain or I slip on the snow or ice.

Maybe he should be test driving trucks if he testing on dirt roads.

I gotta post that link on the Z forums, its SO silly. Why would somebody test drive a 350z on dirt roads, then complain of the suspension being too stiff! Its not an off road vechicle, I wouldn't even drive my Z over gravel

There is no mention of dirt and actually the only mention of gravel is:

"spatterings of gravel over bitumen"

FYI, bitumen is asphalt. He is referring to portions of road where gravel has been kicked up over asphalt. Something that routinely happens on twisty rural roads.

How you got an image of Mad Max racing through the Australian outback in a 350z is beyond me.

-Mr. Wigggles

Damn it Gord,

You beat me to Blue's 350z bitumen oversight.

Like shooting fish in a barrell huh?

-Mr. Wigggles

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


Perfect, just perfect. You couldn't have illustrated our point better. What he said was

Do you even understand what bitumen is?

It's asphalt, pavement, you great flaming twit.

And here you go again ranting about dirt roads based on a stupid assumption caused by your own lack of basic reading and comprehension skills. Now you're all smug because you're mocking this writer, when you've so completely and thoroughly misunderstood and missed the point. He's describing a real world, twisting, turning, climbing and dropping, mountainous sports car road. A paved road, to clear that up again for you since you will have ignored the point already.

Of course, you aren't familiar with any of those types of roads because you live your life a quarter mile at a time. Carry on, drag racing man. But PLEASE, carry on somewhere else. A quarter mile at a time, if you must. Just avoid those roads with corners, because so many of them don't even have straight sections a quarter mile long.

Regards,
Gordon

lol ... burn...

im glad i wasnt on the recieving end of that ....

350Z owner on a Mazda forum..

Sucker for abuse I guess!

Maybe next week he will go and get his Z painted with a "flame job" :p

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


Sorry about that, Tweety-nator. ;) I know that Saturn shot was below the belt. I actually do have a lot of respect for the 350Z and it's capabilities, but as aussie77 said, the comeback was purely in the Blue350Z mode - supposed "facts" being trumpeted without any logic or consideration. I just picked one bad review out of the dozens of good ones and harped on that, just as Blue350Z likes to do here.



No problem Gordon, apology not neccessary. ;)

Cheers!

Originally posted by canzoomer
350Z owner on a Mazda forum..

Sucker for abuse I guess!

Maybe next week he will go and get his Z painted with a "flame job" :p


Its getting mighty hot in here :p

oh, wait a minute... I am a 350z owner too yikes!!!! :D

Did someone say twisty dirt road?!?! I don't even know if this topic is even worth trying to salvage but I'll put in my feelings on the matter.

1.) I think the car is capable of 14s, but I don't think we'll see many if any 14.5s in stock form

2.) I don't think it actually has 238 hp, the dynos say no, the trap speeds say no, and my butt dyno said no

3.) If you enjoy the car and think it's plenty fast #2 doesn't matter

4.) If you expected more power #2 does matter

5.) People don't buy sporty cars for good gas mileage, if you want good gas mileage and a sporty car go get an RSX or choice from a few other cars that fit the bill

6.) Trolls are annoying, but not nearly as annoying as the blind faith fanboy that would defend his car not matter what was said about it (this goes for any car owner)

Bleh... I don't even know why I posted, this thread is out of control.

Road&Track test data

______________ 0 - 1/4 mile _____ Power ___ Weight ___ P/W

Toyota
Celica GT-S __ 15.4s @ 91.5mph __ 180 hp ___ 2500 lb ___0.072


A production RX-8’s quarter mile trap speed is similar to a Celica GT-S.

Both cars have high-rev NA engine and manual transmission.

They probably have the same power-to-weight ratio.


0.072 x 3000 = 216 hp (estimated power of RX-8)

Supercharger we have already seen a speed trap for a production RX-8 on these forums in 14.7s at 96 mph. This is very very close to the time slips that Mazda released, and the times a lot of the magazines have gotten.

As for the rest of it, this thread really has gotten ridiculous. Blue 350z wants to believe the RX-8 is a 15 second car. It is somehow important to him to know that it can't be lumped in the same category as his 350z. Funny thing is, for a 15+ second car we have a lot of runs in the mid 14's. Doh!

And if we are going to talk about pure power (ie dynos) then this might make for interesting reading from Mazda as released by RotaryNews.com

http://rotarynews.com/view.php?id=212

Yaw was right, the engine doesn't like dynos. So now we're looking at a car that has dynod 185 or so WITH engine controls screwing the power up. Suddenly things look pretty darned good to me ;)

Of course, Blue 350z will likely insist that this is all a lie, despite independed verification posted BEFORE the release of this information from Mazda. And JFK was assassinated as a part of an alien plot (or maybe he WAS an alien). Who knows? Who cares. The truth IS coming out. Sucks to be wrong, doesn't it Blue?

aussie77 wrote: "Just waiting for Ikewrx to jump in with something negative to say now Nice looking dyno though..."

That's a good one! AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Hehe thanks. I would have put Blue 350z's name in there instead but at the time he said he was leaving these boards and never coming back.... but once a troll, always a troll.

I posted this over in another forum but was wondering if you guys have read up in this months Option 1, they do a stock RX-8 pull and hit approx. 211whp which is increased to 225ish with cat back.

do you mind posting that

Ah, dont have a scanner and cant find my dig. cam. lol. I'll take a picture as soon as I find my camera.

no problem

At 75-80 saw a 350z run a 14.93 does that make it a 14 sec or 15 sec or wtf ever else blue 350 is talking about.Driving skill has a helluva lot to do with it when i get mine up there ill knock that 15 sec outa the park do i get the 1000$?

this thread is important to me...you guys already have your cars,and no matter what anyone says about them,you defend your car becuase you love it...on the other hand,theres me, a lucky 17 year old debating over either to get a G35C6MT or an RX-8...i have yet to test drive the G35, but i have sampled the Z and RX-8,and they are both wonderful...unfortunetly,while BLUE350z's comments were supposed to glorify the Z,it left me with a bad taste in my mouth...the more i consider what each of these cars are capable of,i can't help but love the RX-8,you guys have painted the picture of a car,with an exquisite gearbox and suspension mated to a superb powerplant that than can propel the car to exceptional speeds,only not speeds faster than that of the Nissan...do i have the right idea here?...i'm no street racer but in the event of a street light drag race with a Z can i expect to lose handily?


also,do you think the aftermarket will take to the RX-8 like it did the FD3s RX-7?or the Z for that matter?

thanks for answering my questions,you guys are great...

Originally posted by WTF no turbo
At 75-80 saw a 350z run a 14.93 does that make it a 14 sec or 15 sec or wtf ever else blue 350 is talking about.Driving skill has a helluva lot to do with it when i get mine up there ill knock that 15 sec outa the park do i get the 1000$?

Yes because they can run 14's all day with drivers of different skill levels. I havent seen a 350z or G35 coupe 6MT run 15's at 91mph all day. Yes I saw one run a 14.9 but at 98mph!!! thats just a bad launch but the MPH tells the tale. 60ft was like 2.6 sec! really bad.

and AGAIN, this thread is about POWER!! and corelating it to 1/4mil or staright line accel performance. (doesnt mean that the car doesnt have other important performance attributes, geezzus. but they are off topic here, seems some people dont know that being off topic is RUDE)

In the event of a street race between a 350z and an RX-8 with the 8 broken in, the 350z will probably win. However the two cars are close enough that driver skill can make a difference.

As for the rest of this ridiculous argument about the RX-8's 1/4 mile times. For the last freaking time, we only have FOUR people who have posted their 1/4 times on this website. Two of the four launched at lower rpms which would not give the car peak performance. One of the four did launch properly and got a 14.7s time. Why are people still harping on about having "proof" that the RX-8 is a 15+ second car when there isn't enough data to say that, and what little data we have actually suggests that mid to high 14's is a more realistic number with an experienced driver.

Originally posted by aussie77
In the event of a street race between a 350z and an RX-8 with the 8 broken in, the 350z will probably win. However the two cars are close enough that driver skill can make a difference.

As for the rest of this ridiculous argument about the RX-8's 1/4 mile times. For the last freaking time, we only have FOUR people who have posted their 1/4 times on this website. Two of the four launched at lower rpms which would not give the car peak performance. One of the four did launch properly and got a 14.7s time. Why are people still harping on about having "proof" that the RX-8 is a 15+ second car when there isn't enough data to say that, and what little data we have actually suggests that mid to high 14's is a more realistic number with an experienced driver.

Aussiee, your agressiveness is getting really really tiring. why dont you instead contribute something. Do you have ANY dynojet experience? ANY? How about any DRAG RACING experience??? anything??

Originally posted by Sneakyracer


Aussiee, your agressiveness is getting really really tiring. why dont you instead contribute something. Do you have ANY dynojet experience? ANY? How about any DRAG RACING experience??? anything??

Sorry man, but Aussie wasn't being agressive. Just tired of stating the same thing over and over again.

Agressiveness could have been a name calling contest, or some more direct quote to someone. As I said, frustration gets on everybody's nerves.
Chill! (all of us)

Originally posted by Sneakyracer


Yes because they can run 14's all day with drivers of different skill levels. I havent seen a 350z or G35 coupe 6MT run 15's at 91mph all day. Yes I saw one run a 14.9 but at 98mph!!! thats just a bad launch but the MPH tells the tale. 60ft was like 2.6 sec! really bad.


Why?? tell me this, being an average driver, can you even get high trap speeds if you don't do things right? And I mean on any car, even one you've never drove before. Can you get into a Z and get a 100mph trap speed? could you get into anything else and get a std. trap speed for that car?

I would suggest chilling out until we get MORE slips, and see how the story goes. Im really tired of all this sheitzy CRYPTIC PROPHETICAL CR*P (Am I being too explicit here??)

Aussiee, your agressiveness is getting really really tiring. why dont you instead contribute something.

You telling me to contribute something is nothing short of amusing. Why don't you try having a little patience and waiting til we know the facts before you go making the statements you have made. If four people drove the 350z and three of them got 17 seconds for the 1/4 mile you wouldn't call it a 17 second car. Plain and simple.

What is getting tiring is people like you spouting the same crap over and over again. You obviously have no understanding of the basic concept of reliable data. I have no beef with that. But when you trumpet your ignorance over and over again that gets very old, very quickly. Four data points is NOT enough to make a statement.

Originally posted by aussie77


You telling me to contribute something is nothing short of amusing. Why don't you try having a little patience and waiting til we know the facts before you go making the statements you have made. If four people drove the 350z and three of them got 17 seconds for the 1/4 mile you wouldn't call it a 17 second car. Plain and simple.

What is getting tiring is people like you spouting the same crap over and over again. You obviously have no understanding of the basic concept of reliable data. I have no beef with that. But when you trumpet your ignorance over and over again that gets very old, very quickly. Four data points is NOT enough to make a statement.

Hey Sneaky...here you go: this is agressive. Happy NOW?

Originally posted by aussie77


You telling me to contribute something is nothing short of amusing. Why don't you try having a little patience and waiting til we know the facts before you go making the statements you have made. If four people drove the 350z and three of them got 17 seconds for the 1/4 mile you wouldn't call it a 17 second car. Plain and simple.

What is getting tiring is people like you spouting the same crap over and over again. You obviously have no understanding of the basic concept of reliable data. I have no beef with that. But when you trumpet your ignorance over and over again that gets very old, very quickly. Four data points is NOT enough to make a statement.

I agree, not enough data. SO why dont YOU take the oportunity you have being an RX8 owner and all and contribute a 5th data point for good measure hu? I would in a SECOND if i had an RX8 just like i did when i purchased my Jetta and there was some small dilema of how much power they made and how much did mods increased power. But as it turned out the initial data was accurate, it was just confirmed over and over.

And yes 1/4 mile TIME is not really a good way to compare cars, there are too many variables (track condition, tires, launch / driver etc etc), 1/4 mile MPH has still variables but it isnt dependent on launch so it tells the truth about power more consistently, and yes even a DYNOJET has variables BUT a lot LESS than any other tests. In my fact my jetta with the same mods as the jetta of a friend of mine in new jersey, 300o miles away dynoed within 2hp of MY CAR, both on dynojets in different locations!.


And agian, I repeat, this Thread is about POWER! not whether the RX8 is a bad car or not.(it obviously isnt) that isnt the issue discussed here.

I don't because I'm not in a situation to do so right now. Perhaps if the RX-8's 1/4 mile time was something terribly important in my life I might think about it more, but it isn't so I'm not going to take time out of my schedule right now to go to a track and add a data point to the collection :) Besides I am sure other people will do so eventually, and I am willing to wait.

I don't see anyone turning this into an argument about anything other than power. It is about POWER as you keep putting in capitals. But it is also about reliable data regarding power. Right now there isn't enough info. Hopefully more will continue to come out :)

Ok, i have been trying to get in contact with RX8 owners here in puerto rico. There arent many dude to the fact that the car costs $39k here (the 6 speed with some options), about the same as a enthusiast 350z and there isnt a lot of dealers that have them. As soon as i contact some i wil try to get some real quality data on a dynojet and 1/4 mile track alongside other comparable cars like S2000, 350z , G35 coupe ,rsx-s, STI, WRX and EVO since i know several people with those cars. 350z has sold extremely well here even at a cost of $39-45k, same with the G35 coupe (at $48k). A RSX-S is about $31k here.

Well see what happens. I, like you and most people here hate to be hearing the same arguments over and over , using the smae information. I will do my part to contribute something new info. I have a lot of contacts in the local tuning comunity here so ill put it to good use.

Fro comparison purposes only, I wanted to post this link to another dyno chart of a car advertised at 225 HP at the crank, that delivering 202 at the wheels: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=136301.

The car is a 2003 BMW 330 Coupe. It's interesting that a lower (advertised) powered car is making more RWHP than our "238" HP 8.

silver 8
are you serious
you must be new and not been following the problems with dyno's on the 8

Originally posted by mikeb
silver 8
are you serious
you must be new and not been following the problems with dyno's on the 8

Let's stop repeating that mantra Mikeb.

It is simply not reproducible.


I have had NO problems dynoing my 8.

We have taken it out on 2 road runs now with the gear we are working on installed and the results we see translate nicely on the road.
No, I don't have a GTech at my disposal, but the results are clear and obvious.

There is simply no difference in the ECU readings on the road as compared to on a dyno, other than when you do several hard runs on the static dyno, and you see the temperatures rise a lot faster.
The ECU outputs, status readings off the OBD and so on all the same, road or on the dyno.

canzoomer,

Did you take your RX-8 to a drag strip?

Please post quarter mile numbers.

That was a verry good read i have takin in lots of info. just a side note the cars ecm or ecu will not change on the dyno. It suck butt you will always have other car owners that will bash your car trust me i know i get shit talk to me and my tib buddys all the time on THE TIB forum, BUT THE ONLY THING THAT THEY CAN EVER SAY BAD IS THAT ITS A HYUNDAI, the point is is that you guys like your cars and that is all that counts fuck the other guys. i have guys in 350,wrx's,gt stangs that talk shit to me all the time all i do is smile and then i smoke ther ass and you guys will do the same just give it time:D YOU ARE STILL DRIVING A BAD ASS RIDE:)

Thanks for the support.

My what an eloquent display of higher loquascious diction!

Originally posted by silver8
Fro comparison purposes only, I wanted to post this link to another dyno chart of a car advertised at 225 HP at the crank, that delivering 202 at the wheels: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=136301.

The car is a 2003 BMW 330 Coupe. It's interesting that a lower (advertised) powered car is making more RWHP than our "238" HP 8.

Thats about right. I have seen a few 330 bmw's dyno that ammount consistently. You dont see any magazine reviews complain about BMWs engine or any really slow performance numbers do you ;) They rather maybe underrate their engine a bit. Good choice IMHO.

The most extreme case of underating is the NEON SRT4. It is advertised as 215 HP but on a dyno it puts down anywhere from 205-215 WHEEL HP!!! Same with the late Z28. Rated at 305 and it put down 290+ at the wheels. (ls1 engine).

Some manufacturers have had both. NISSAN really OVERrated the sentra SER spec v! rated at 180hp at first it only put down 138hp at the wheels! they rerated at 175 but that too is overating oh well. No such problems with the 350z which puts down consistenly 235 wheel hp stock.

If I were a manufacturer I rather UNDERATE a car. That first eliminates any disapointment from false expectations also helps lower insurance costs of ownership.


(all #'s posted are DYNOJET examples, mustang type and dynopac dyno numbers differ)

Originally posted by canzoomer
Thanks for the support.

My what an eloquent display of higher loquascious diction! lol:D

Originally posted by Supercharger
canzoomer,

Did you take your RX-8 to a drag strip?

Please post quarter mile numbers.

He has said he is hoping to make it this weekend...

Originally posted by Sneakyracer

If I were a manufacturer I rather UNDERATE a car. That first eliminates any disapointment from false expectations also helps lower insurance costs of ownership.


i don't know if i would agree with you.

i believe hp # sell cars

so they would rather have as high hp output as they can put down on paper

also, i don't know the % of owner that would take their car to a dyno or look at web sites to find out the dyno figure of their cars. so they might prefer to lie at the beginning, and then later on do a cover up

oh wait, or is it just Ford that has been doing this?? :D