Haven't posted on here for a while because of a difference of opinions, however I feel compelled to make this post to warn others of the dangers of bore water. We went away on the weekend staying at a bed and breakfast In Lyndoch at South Australias Barossa Valley. Early Sunday morning the owners of the cottages decided to water the lawn with bore water, however my car was in the firing line. When I noticed it the left side, boot and bonnet was smeared with dirt and the left front rotor was covered with corrosion. we cleaned it later that day at the first car wash we could find, in fact i cleaned it twice. I have enclosed pictures of the clean duco.


Apparently bore water is very corrosive and when it dries on the cars duco it's end result is similar to long standing bird droppings. The car has barely done over 8000km and now looks like shit. We have been told to expect a full respray.


The vendors offered little sympathy with a reply to my comment that it would be respectful that they warn of unsealed roads and sprinklers hitting cars in the parking spot it would have been prudent to ask if there were unsealed roads considering how precious your car is to you

more pics

Sheesh that sucks.. btw welcome back

Sorry to hear wat happened :(

Did this place have permit to use bore water?

http://www.health.sa.gov.au/pehs/PDF-files/bore-water-web-06.pdf

thanks Kal, thus part of the pdf was easy reading Responsibility for safety
The land owner is responsible for the safety
aspects of bore water.


I'll be lodging it with my insurance, I've been told a full respray will cost about $7-8k. My ins co can sort it out with the vendors.

The car is now an embarrasment to drive.

That is not good, however I would be consulting your insurance company and inform them of the situation and let them know you will be making a claim. I am sure that they will persue the Bed and Breakfast for damages.

You can identify the people that caused the damage, whether it was intentional or not is irrelavent, that is why you have insurance, let them take up the plight on your behalf.

Hope it all works out.

Cheers,

Gibbo.

Damn...I wish I could type quicker...then my reply would not have looked like I just copied you...

Anyhow...great minds etc etc.

Gibbo, I already have filled in the paper work for the insurance claim. They are better equipped and staffed for such a claim than I. I went home lunch time and looked at the car and it certainly stirs some emotions to see the effects of someones negligence.

I just hope that the new paint job will be as good as factory.

At this stage I do not want to publically identify the establishment, though I am tempted.

Welcome back AMG. Hopefully said difference of opinions can remain bygones. Life's too short.

Thanks for the heads up on the bore water issue. I had no idea it could be so corrosive. Sorry to hear you had to find out the hard way.

Your insurer will almost certainly pursue the operators of the B&B for the cost of making good the damage. As you say, their negligence is pretty clear. Some insurers are prepared to claim your excess when they do so, so you're not left out of pocket at all, so this is worth asking about.

Hope it's made right for you ASAP.

Bore water is probably the best water available in S.A.

I use bore water for almost everything and it is a little acidic but I have had mine tested and it is drinkable.

Sounds like an unlucky accident.
Hopefully they are covered by public liability and have demurrage insurance.

So sorry to see the damage done to the car...made worse by the lack of apparent understanding of the accomodation owner. What a cheek hey! Bet you won't be recommending them to your friends!

On the bright side, any little stone chips will now all be gone! For interest I took my car to Alpine crash who were recommended to me by Paradise Mazda. They did a great job, looked after the car and had it finished when they told me it would be finished. Their workshop was spotless and their customer service was excellent.

Good luck hope it all goes well.

Welcome back too by the way!

that sux... im sure the options/advices has all been mentioned, so i wont repeat them again.
hope you get fixed soon.

btw, welcome back, this place has changed abit since you last visited.

Thnx Ezzy and RC.

I'll be taking the care to Edwardstown Motor Bodies, the Porsche approved repairer. Their paint shop is highly regarded.

RC, with regards to paint chips, the car had none, the car was in the first shipment, only a tad over 8000kms done, the paint was immaculate. I just hope that the new paint will be to factory standard or better.

another excerpt from the vendors reply
Re the state of your car. we are surprised to hear of the problem as we wash our cars regularly with the same bore water and have never had an issue

at least they admit they use bore water. A google reveals that bore water is NOT recommended for washing cars. Lets see them get out of that one when contacted by my insurers.

this place has changed abit since you last visited.

is that because of my absence?

By the way, does anyone know which brand paint mazda uses?

holy crap- that's so unfair and am so sorry to hear about it. i hope u get it fixed soon.

i can totally relate, because i've had a similar damage from using mr. clean autodry car wash system on my car for about a year or so... it initially works great and spotless- which is why i continued using it. but, apparently over time leaves chemical residue & spots that build up gradually and don't come out. i've had to change most of my glass & also polish the car every month to gradually remove the spots. it's been a nightmare to say the least. but, i'm finally making some progress and getting some results.

have u tried having a detail shop polish out the spots with an orbital or is it just going to be a complete re-paint and replacing the glass altogether? either way hope u get it taken care of soon.

is that because of my absence?
def. yes and some other contributing factors :rofl: :crazy: :suspect: :evil_laug

By the way, does anyone know which brand paint mazda uses?
not sure, but popular brands will do the job, so long as the paint code is correct and the paint system has been updated with the correct software and most importantly, the spray painter isnt blind and know what he/she is doing.
are you going to get a full respray done in the same colour? :wink2:

have u tried having a detail shop polish out the spots with an orbital or is it just going to be a complete re-paint and replacing the glass altogether? either way hope u get it taken care of soon.


the paint shop looked at it today and tried to removed the damage from a section of paint with only a slight improvement. Their comment " it's bad"

The salts on the glass and rims can be scraped off, but the paint has been etched.

The damage is not just on the exterior of the car but has also extended to the painted inner areas of the boot doors and where the scuff plates go.

The owners of the B&B may be scoffing at it now, but their insurance company wont be too happy with their obvious disregard for the property of their guests.

importantly, the spray painter isnt blind and know what he/she is doing.
are you going to get a full respray done in the same colour? :wink2:

yep, I want to make sure the paint matches the VIN etc.

The question regarding the brand of paint relates to my desire to do some research on the effects of bore water on the paint surface.

Hope it all gets sorted. It's timely advice though. Never really thought of bore water being an issue although when it's used on gardens it does kill plants and make concrete go orange......

I would say the B&B owners are environmental vandals anyways using artesian water during a drought.....it has to come from somewhere...I hate these sort of people...I'm an arid gardener myself and a passionate one and I have a thriving garden! Yes I know a bit OT.

Anyway goodluck and keep us posted.

What did I miss?

Welcome back Dr. Arthur!

Shit that it happens......

Excuse my ignorance, why does bore water corrosive and what does it used for?
Hang on... I just read Kall's link :oops:

If your car was parked in a designated area they will almost certainly be found liable and their PL insurance will cover the damage.

Bore water might be nasty in some places -like Adelaide but every variety of bottled spring water is just bore water that has been extracted from a quality source.

amg> one other thing. when the body shop scrapes your windows, make sure you watch them and make sure they do it carefully. the glass on our cars is very soft, and, if they do it too hard or with anything too sharp (like a razor) there will very likely be scratches. (tho- u might not be able to see them unless u put the car in direct sunlight at just the right angle.) i've had to change my windows due to something like this as well. so, just thought i'd remind u.

Detrich, thanks for the advice. Because it's going to be done through my insurance, if there are any slight scratches I will have the windows replaced.

The cra was parked in the designated area. The owners scoffed at my damage with little consideration. I prepared an email for them last night scathing of their response and lack of regard of their responsibilities. However I decided not to build my self up too much and deleted it. Insurance companies are better suited to handle these situations.

Should I repaint it orange?

That's bad man. Hope the insurance company nails them hard. About the only thing I can add is that unfortunately your car's paint will never be the same again even after a respray. Problem is that no matter how good the shop you will NEVER get a paint as perfect as from the factory. Though chances are you'll never really notice it unless you go over every (and I do mean every) inch with a very fine eye and even then you'll have to know what you're looking for.

lone_wolf:

There are some very good painters in Australia. I used to be as skeptical as you. I have seen it first hand and I am convinced. One I found recently in Melbourne. It ain't cheap, the whole car cost $8000+, but boy the paint is thick is sooooo even.

For the people who cares, it was an unknown sports car (GTV) with a rover engine at theMeridian Motor Sport. I am sure they will point you to the person/people involved.

I prepared an email for them last night scathing of their response and lack of regard of their responsibilities. However I decided not to build my self up too much and deleted it. Insurance companies are better suited to handle these situations.

Good thinking.

Your insurer would probably prefer you have no contact, lest you make a factual admission or some other slip. Indeed, some policies specifically require the insured to clear any communications through the insurer.

Best thing to do is provide the insurer with all relevant details and let them get on with it.

Should I repaint it orange?
if you want. how about pink and purple :hahano: ?

the real problem with the damage is that i cant drive the RX8 to the clipsal 500 this weekend. I'm now condemned to drive the Series VII RX7 instead......bugga! :spank:

lone_wolf:

There are some very good painters in Australia. I used to be as skeptical as you. I have seen it first hand and I am convinced. One I found recently in Melbourne. It ain't cheap, the whole car cost $8000+, but boy the paint is thick is sooooo even.

For the people who cares, it was an unknown sports car (GTV) with a rover engine at theMeridian Motor Sport. I am sure they will point you to the person/people involved.

Well its not so much as being skeptical as it is just something that happens. A really good shop can do a job so good that its near impossible to tell unless you're a professional. I really can't say I have experience on this topic its just something I was told from a professional car inspector. Regardless I wish him the best and hope it turns out as good as he wants.

the real problem with the damage is that i cant drive the RX8 to the clipsal 500 this weekend. I'm now condemned to drive the Series VII RX7 instead......bugga! :spank:
yeah damn shame isnt? alot of ppl would still prefer the S7 RX7 over the RX8.... (especially those ppl from ausrotary :hahano: )

lone_wolf> well, the body shop already told him that damage can't be buffed out, so re-painting is really the best option. i think we would all hope that we'll never have to re-paint. but, a good body shop can paint almost as well as the factory and make it look very nice. it's true that they might not be able to bake the car at as high a temperature and therefore the paint doesn't bond as thoroughly. (ex: 700º vs. 900º) but, that doesn't mean the paint is going to just fall off. given the damage, if it were me, i would want to have my car repainted than have it looking like that. wouldn't u say?

About the only thing I can add is that unfortunately your car's paint will never be the same again even after a respray. Problem is that no matter how good the shop you will NEVER get a paint as perfect as from the factory.

A really good shop can do a job so good that its near impossible to tell unless you're a professional.

Although I understand the general point you're making, if you get a job so good only a professional can pick the difference, I doubt a layman (e.g. purchaser?) will notice.

Me thinks mehaps I shoulda kept my mouth shut. My intention was just to express sympathy that its so bad it has to be resprayed and that it might possibly wind up being not as good as it was before.

My car has had some respraying done (previously owned) and I only found out when a warranty claims investigator pointed out a "spec of dust" in the paint. I never noticed it til he pointed it out so perhaps everyone can see where I'm coming from.

Regardless I hope it turns out well. Sorry for the misunderstandings.

I will paint to pearl black just to make a point about repainting :p: If you going to repaint the whole car, repaint to something different. Coz I know it will be different.

My intention was just to express sympathy that its so bad it has to be resprayed and that it might possibly wind up being not as good as it was before.
.

no problems here lone_wolf. I hear you. The quality of the respray does concern me. If it isn't factory perfect then I'll be kicking and screaming. I'm a connoiseur of cars , the RX8 is kept in a sealed garage with a cover over it, Has probably only been washed 3-4 times in it's life ( excluding the recent two washes), very lightly driven ( 8000km in 3.5 years) I believe I most certainly have a case for negligence and compensation.

My partner told one of her work colleagues about the incident, and without even mentioning bore water, he guessed it was bore water. He uses bore water in his garden and knows it is definitely contraindicated to use it on cars because of the salt content.

Anyone know a good Adelaide litigation lawyer???? :ylsuper:

I will paint to pearl black just to make a point about repainting :p: If you going to repaint the whole car, repaint to something different. Coz I know it will be different.
yeah, but someone do have concerns about the resale value/ease of selling the car etc..... :Freak_ani :hahano: :cwm27:

yeah, but someone do have concerns about the resale value/ease of selling the car etc..... :Freak_ani :hahano: :cwm27:
I know, just because not everyone want a car in Royal Jaffa! :lol:

I know, just because not everyone want a car in Royal Jaffa! :lol:
yes, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder :evil_laug :icon_bs: :rofl:

Me thinks mehaps I shoulda kept my mouth shut. My intention was just to express sympathy that its so bad it has to be resprayed and that it might possibly wind up being not as good as it was before.

My car has had some respraying done (previously owned) and I only found out when a warranty claims investigator pointed out a "spec of dust" in the paint. I never noticed it til he pointed it out so perhaps everyone can see where I'm coming from.

Regardless I hope it turns out well. Sorry for the misunderstandings.

No problem with me either.

I think the point you make is a fair one. I guess I was just observing that if the difference is hard to pick, it might not be such a big deal if it's not quite as good as the factory paint job.

I don't think there's been any misunderstanding. Just a discussion about the issue. No need for apology.

Anyone know a good Adelaide litigation lawyer???? :ylsuper:

Will you need one if your insurer accepts the claim?

Will you need one if your insurer accepts the claim?


stress, negligence, and how good the paint ends up.

I'm surprised at the amount of people that have recomended a current affair and today tonight. A sad reflection on society

I'm surprised at the amount of people that have recomended a current affair and today tonight. A sad reflection on society
how about organising a protest and march down the main strip of Adel? :cwm27:

stress, negligence, and how good the paint ends up.

I'm surprised at the amount of people that have recomended a current affair and today tonight. A sad reflection on society

Arthur, you will of course need to satisfy yourself as to your rights and obligations separately from comments on some internet forum, but FWIW, my view is as follows:

Unless there's something about the law of SA I'm unaware of, 'mere' stress and worry (i.e. something less than a medically diagnosable condition) is not actionable.

The negligence certainly is, but your insurer will pay the cost of repairs, so your only actionable damage is your excess. If your insurer refuses to recover that for you when it recovers against the negligent party, I suppose you could mount your own action but the costs of doing so (not all of which are usually recoverable) probably aren't worth it. I'd certainly send a letter of demand though, timed to immediately follow your insurer's recovery (liaise with them on that). You never know - they might just cough up to avoid another suit.

As for the standard of the paint work, the negligent party's obligation is to put you back in the position that you were in before their negligent act or omission to the extent it is reasonable to do so. In other words, no court in the world will order them to pay the cost of freighting the car back to the factory for a factory paint job. They are only obliged to pay for something that is reasonably close to that standard of finish. Of course what is 'reasonable' will differ, especially between a car enthusiast and the lawyers for the negligent party's insurer. If there is to be a fight about that, it will boil down to expert evidence and a legal assessment of what is 'reasonable' - in other words a lawyer's crap shoot.

Hope this helps you to decide what to do.

They are only obliged to pay for something that is reasonably close to that standard of finish. Of course what is 'reasonable' will differ, especially between a car enthusiast and the lawyers for the negligent party's insurer.


That is my concern, what type of 'reasonable' paint finish to expect and it is causing me some distress. If the car had done 40,000km, and had a mildly weathered finish with the odd stone chip, I'd be chuffed with an new paint job, but the car is ( was) in concourse condition, will it be the same when all is said and done, that is what concerns me.

That is very true.....

If the car had done 40,000km, and had a mildly weathered finish with the odd stone chip, I'd be chuffed with an new paint job,

I am thinking I should get a paint job at some stage....

imo... if the respray was done by a professional/respectable panel beater, the new paint job will be far better than what it came out of the factory/assembly line.

you are talking about a "personla touch" rather than a paint job done by mechanical robots.

That is my concern, what type of 'reasonable' paint finish to expect and it is causing me some distress. If the car had done 40,000km, and had a mildly weathered finish with the odd stone chip, I'd be chuffed with an new paint job, but the car is ( was) in concourse condition, will it be the same when all is said and done, that is what concerns me.

If it is not, arguably you could claim the difference in value between 'concourse' and what you're left with.

However, that assumes that your evidence as to the standard of the car 'pre-inury' is accepted and can be assessed in some manner. Evidence going to quality can be very problematic.

I'd also suggest that although important to you, the difference in value in commercial terms isn't going to add up to a whole lot at this stage. Might be different if the car became a recognised collectable, etc. However, at this stage it is a not rare, relatively cheap sports coupe. So that's going to effect the valuation question.

Please understand, I am not trying to argue with you here, just giving you some things to consider before you incur legal fees.

imo... if the respray was done by a professional/respectable panel beater, the new paint job will be far better than what it came out of the factory/assembly line.

you are talking about a "personla touch" rather than a paint job done by mechanical robots.

That makes sense to me but I understand there're others who believe the higher curing temps used in the factory improve the quality and durability of the OEM finish. I don't know why an aftermarket shop couldn't do the same though. :dunno:

well, i think that once this sort of thing happens, yah- it's totally upsetting & u get the feeling that the car will never be the same. but, if u really love the car and try to solve the problem rationally and realistically, there is always hope. try to find the best body & paint shop possible and realize that although it won't be a factory paint job, it will still be extremely good & you will be able to live with the results.

i know how badly this hurts, as i'm going through similar pains myself. for me what's been the kicker is every place i go to to get something thing fixed just adds more grief onto the pile. for example, the glass place i went to did a great job replacing my glass. BUT, then they also made a TON of dust scratches all over my trunk- which was really upsetting- esp considering all the pains i go thru preventing this from happening. honestly, i dunno what else i could've done tho- short of wrapping the car panels in bubble wrap before giving it to them to work on. <sigh> we always hope that people who work on our cars will care for them as much as we do. but, that simply just isn't the case. but, after all's said & done. i do really love my 8. so, i'm being patient and haven't given up yet and will continue seeing what patient detailing can do.

hang in there man. your car will be okay. :)

Try not to be optimistic about it just yet. Here's my advice:

My guess is that this has happened before, and I would take a hard-line stance, since in my experience things can go quite sour very quickly. The B & B will be looking out for their own interests and won't do you any favours.

You can also be guaranteed they'll have solicitor on it to slow things downs. Keep a running log on everything, date, time place and keep on good terms with your insurance company. If you find someone you are comfortable with, try to deal with that one person who will have intimate knowledge of your case.

Secondly identify a good local foreign car repair company. They'll work mostly on BMWs, Audis, and Volvos, etc but you can be rest asurred they'll be competent with all Japanese cars and recommend them to your insurance company. As a rule however Insurance companies usually have recommended repairers with a lifetime warranty.

Good luck with it and let us know how it goes.

My humble bit is this.

Don't worry about what might happen with the paint job you can't really control that. You mentioned you are going to the best paint shop in town right? So they will do a good job and one of a high standard otherwise they wouldn't get the top line cars. Next glad you wrote the email and deleted it, you got all the anger out and I bet it did you a lot of good. Next, let your insurance company go after them (I did when I had a little P plater run into the back of me) I am with Shannons and the assessor that came to look at my car agreed with me regarding the damage, the replacement parts required and the great condition of a daily driver. The insurance company is your friend and they will go after the B&B as others have said, it's in their best interests.

From what I can see you have to trust that others will do the right thing by you. Take Revolvers advice about the letter, he has helped me immeasurably with his legal knowledge and the fact he's willing to share for free.

Take a deep breath and know that your car will be re-born.....re-sprayed and no-one will know unless they have the eye of a hawk.

Good luck.

I am yet to see your car, would be nice to catch up when it's all done and admire it! Mine is 1 year old and has just clocked over 26,000kms...it's a work horse and it makes a bad day great knowing that work pays for me to drive it!

I will paint to pearl black just to make a point about repainting :p: If you going to repaint the whole car, repaint to something different. Coz I know it will be different.


Interesting post Taka. Do you know of any instances where someone has done this?

Ideas:

Jnr from Black to the Royal Jaffa
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/EZZYJR/100_0766.jpg

Brian from Red to ........ Veilside colour
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i88/missik/Autosalon%20semis%202006/autosalonsetup027.jpg

I think I will just go from black to black pearl/metallic

Very nice photos....your choice of 'black pearl metallic' is not only very compatible but a very smart choice.

I hope your panel beater will have the skills to pull it off. :fingersx:

Very nice photos....your choice of 'black pearl metallic' is not only very compatible but a very smart choice.

I hope your panel beater will have the skills to pull it off. :fingersx:
i think taka meant some kind of pearl over the BB paint to make black pearl metallic.